Podcast Summary: "Why You Always Want More, And How To Fix It"

10% Happier with Dan Harris | Guest: Michael Easter
Original Air Date: November 26, 2025 (Re-air of July 2024 episode)
Episode Theme:
The episode dives deep into human insatiability—our evolutionary tendency to always want more—and the resulting challenges of moderation in a world of abundance. Journalist and author Michael Easter joins Dan Harris to discuss concepts from his book, Scarcity Brain, exploring the roots and remedies for overconsumption, habit formation, and how to find satisfaction in the modern world.

Main Topics & Structure

• Evolutionary Roots of Overconsumption
• The Scarcity Loop: What Hooks Us
• Time, Information, and the Mismatch of Modern Life
• Harnessing the Scarcity Loop for Good
• Practical Strategies for Changing Habits
• Expanding Your ‘Pigeon Cage’: Seeking Stimulation and Meaning
• Embracing Discomfort: Insights from The Comfort Crisis
• Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Humans Are Bad at Moderation

[05:41 – 07:26]

• Ancient Instincts in a Modern World:

  • Michael Easter explains that humans evolved to overindulge when resources were scarce:

    “We sort of evolved in these environments where everything we needed to survive was scarce and hard to find. And so we kind of evolved to overdo things. ... But we still have those ancient genes pushing us into more in a world where we have an abundance of all those things.” (Michael Easter, 05:47)

  • The mismatch: Our evolutionary drive for more—food, information, status—clashes with modern abundance, making moderation difficult.

• Memorable Stat:

  • “The average home now contains 10,000 to 40,000 items... The average person today sees more information in one day than a person in the 15th century would have seen in their entire life.” (Michael Easter, 06:41)

2. Scarcity Mindset vs. Scarcity Brain

[08:17 – 13:25]

• Scarcity Mindset:

  • Relates to anxiety and focus on not having enough—wired from evolutionary advantage, but often destructive in the modern context.
  • “We’re still looking for that thing we don’t have.” (Michael Easter, 10:17)

• Prevalence-Induced Concept Change:

  • As our lives improve and basic problems are solved, our perception of “problems” simply shifts to smaller issues:

    “As humans experience fewer and fewer problems, we don’t actually become more satisfied. We basically just lower our threshold for what we consider a problem.” (Michael Easter, 10:17)

  • Despite tangible progress (less hunger, more literacy, fewer wars), most Americans don’t believe the world is improving.

3. The Scarcity Loop: Addiction by Design

[14:41 – 18:37]

• Origin Story:

  • Easter’s analysis of Las Vegas slot machines leads to the framework of the ‘scarcity loop’—a formula for compulsive repetition.

• Three Elements of the Scarcity Loop:

  1. Opportunity: The chance to get something valuable.
  2. Unpredictable Rewards: You know rewards will come, but not when or how much.
  3. Quick Repeatability: Ability to try again fast.

• Applications:

  • Beyond gambling, the loop’s engineered into social media, dating apps, online shopping, sports betting.

“So if you want to get a human or really animal hooked on a behavior, get them to repeat the behavior over and over ... it’s got to have these three parts that fall into this loop.” (Michael Easter, 14:59)

4. Scarcity Applied to Time Management

[18:37 – 20:42]

• Time Scarcity Paradox:

  • People feel strapped for time despite actually having more discretionary time than ancestors who spent days farming or hunting.
  • Constantly adding commitments feeds “time scarcity.”

• Loop relevance:

  “We pack our schedule so full today...if you really look at it, we have more time than ever before… and yet we just fill our schedules with so much stuff….” (Michael Easter, 18:43)

5. Can the Scarcity Loop be Harnessed for Good?

[20:42 – 24:02]

• Positive Example:

  • Pokémon Go: Designed using the scarcity loop, but gets people outside, walking, interacting.
    • “It thrives on this scarcity loop. But it does so in a way that gets people out into the world doing things that are good for them.” (Michael Easter, 20:56)

• Potential for Gamifying Mental Health/Meditation Apps

• Meditation’s Twist:

  • Meditation's unpredictable rewards keep Easter returning—even if the timing of blissful moments is random.
    • “...sometimes it’s just like, here’s a million dollars.” (Michael Easter, 25:24)

6. Practical Techniques for Habit Change

[29:12 – 41:11]

• Pigeon Experiment Metaphor:

  • Lab pigeons get hooked on gambling games when bored; once put in a rich, stimulating, social “pigeon cage,” they behave wisely.
    • “Every single pigeon picks the game that makes sense, the game where they get a predictable amount of food.” (Michael Easter, 29:12)

• Key Insight:

  • "All animals—including humans—need a certain amount of stimulation in their life in order to thrive. If we don’t get that stimulation, we go searching for it elsewhere.” (Michael Easter, 31:50)

  • Overeating, overindulging, addictive behaviors often substitute for a lack of real-life engagement or stimulation.

• Tactics for Listeners:

  • Change the Availability: Don’t keep tempting stuff (like Oreos) in the house.
  • Add Friction/Reduce Speed: Slow down access; eg: apps like Clear Space add a “pause” before launching social media.
  • Intentional Delay: With online purchases, require a 72-hour waiting period before buying.

“If you can change the opportunity to do the behavior, that'll usually reduce its frequency. ... Also, reducing the speed at which you can do a behavior.” (Michael Easter, 38:08)

• Summary Formula:
  • “Understand the scarcity loop, how it hooks us, and then understand how you can unhook using that same loop.” (Dan Harris, 41:11)

7. Expanding Your 'Pigeon Cage': Building a Meaningful, Engaging Life

[43:14 – 49:19]

• Bigger questions:

  • Are you getting the stimulation and meaning humans have always needed (movement, social time, nature, face-to-face connection)?
  • Simple, “primitive” activities (physical activity, outdoor time with loved ones) can radically improve satisfaction.

• On making moderation easier:

"How can I mimic a lot of the things that have always made humans happy and healthy ... It's rather basic stuff that keeps people happy and healthy, but we've sort of engineered our world in a way that ... that becomes challenging unless you actively seek that out." (Michael Easter, 44:36)

• Benedictine Monks Case Study:
  • Leading lives of discipline, simplicity, and manual labor, these monks report high happiness despite deprivation.
  • “Happiness is a very murky construction. ... What ultimately I think helps people's happiness is doing things that are challenging, that have a bigger reward in the long run.” (Michael Easter, 45:31)

8. The Comfort Crisis: Discomfort as a Secret Ingredient to Happiness

[52:26 – 74:24]

• Thesis of The Comfort Crisis:

  • “As the world has gotten more and more comfortable over time, we have lost a lot of these sort of fundamental evolutionary discomforts that keep us happy and keep us healthy.” (Michael Easter, 52:26)
  • Human intolerance for discomfort fuels not only anxiety but many chronic problems.

• Practical Philosophy:

  • Be a 2%er: “2% of people take the stairs instead of the escalator.” Small daily discomforts add up to big change.
  • Long-term growth and satisfaction come from choosing short-term discomforts (extra movement, hard conversations).

• Michael’s Practices:

  • Regularly takes stairs, parks far away, walks during phone calls, intentionally spends time outdoors, leans into boredom.

• On Boredom:

  • “When the feeling of boredom comes on... it’s kind of sitting with that. Not automatically choosing the easy thing, which is the phone.” (Michael Easter, 60:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Human Insatiability:

  “Natural selection wired us for insatiability, because if we were totally satisfied after one meal or totally satisfied after one procreation session, then we were unlikely to get our DNA into the next generation.” (Dan Harris, 07:26)

• On Why Problems Always Seem Just As Bad:

  “As humans experience fewer and fewer problems, we don’t actually become more satisfied. We basically just lower our threshold for what we consider a problem.” (Michael Easter, 10:17)

• On The Scarcity Loop’s Pervasiveness:

  “Once you really look at it, you see it everywhere. ... It's being put in a lot of online shopping platforms. It explains the rise of sports betting. It's what makes dating apps work.” (Michael Easter, 17:30)

• On Using the Loop for Good:

  “Pokemon Go ... thrives on this scarcity loop. But it does so in a way that gets people out into the world doing things that are good for them.” (Michael Easter, 23:39)

• On The Power of Simple Changes:

  “If you can put pause in there, I think that helps a lot. ... Just that simple act of the pause usually will just—you realize, I don’t even know why I opened this thing in the first place.” (Michael Easter, 39:10)

• On Seeking Stimulation in Real Life:

  “When a person starts to do a behavior that is more meaningful to them and life-giving, a lot of times bad habits just fall off.” (Michael Easter, 34:12)

• On Discomfort and Growth:

  “People can do hard things and in fact by doing hard things, your life actually gets better.” (Michael Easter, 57:18)

• On Capacity for Change:

  “Humans evolved to be under confident, yet over capable. And we only realize that we are capable if we're willing to take that hard step and just put our foot forward ... the ground's going to appear under you.” (Michael Easter, 74:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to Human Insatiability - 00:00 – 05:41
• Evolution & Scarcity Brain Explanation - 05:41 – 07:26
• Scarcity Mindset - 08:17 – 13:25
• The Scarcity Loop & Slot Machines - 14:59 – 18:37
• Time Scarcity & Modern Overcommitment - 18:37 – 20:42
• Pokémon Go & Using Loops for Good - 20:56 – 24:02
• Meditation as Unpredictable Reward - 24:20 – 25:49
• Pigeon Experiments: Boredom & Bad Habits - 29:12 – 33:53
• Tactical Habit Breaking Tips - 38:08 – 41:11
• Holistic vs. Tactical Life Changes - 43:14 – 45:31
• St. Benedict & Joy Through Simplicity - 45:31 – 49:19
• Discomfort as Beneficial—The 2% Rule - 57:18 – 60:51
• How Boredom Breeds Creativity - 61:32 – 66:15
• The Power of Silence and Nature - 66:15 – 69:23
• Marginal Discomforts Expand Comfort Zone - 69:23 – 70:52
• Cultural Messengers & The 2% Mindset - 70:52 – 73:08

Actionable Takeaways

• Understand Your Triggers:
  Identify which cravings and habits in your life operate on the scarcity loop.

• Modify the Loop:

  • Reduce opportunity (don’t keep temptations at hand)
  • Add delay/friction to repeating behaviors (use apps/tools, implement waiting periods)
  • Replace unhealthy stimulation with meaningful, engaging real-life activities

• Expand Your “Pigeon Cage”:
  Build more richness and stimulation into your life—social time, nature, hobbies.

• Embrace Discomfort, Little by Little:
  Adopt the 2% rule: Seek out small, manageable discomforts daily. Over time, this widens your comfort zone and builds resilience.

• Practice Mindful Awareness:
  Recognize when you’re reaching for quick, predictable rewards; pause, and make a conscious choice.

Resources

• Michael Easter’s Books:

  • Scarcity Brain
  • The Comfort Crisis

• Newsletter:

  • 2% with Michael Easter – eastermichael.com

• For More Practical Guides:

  • Michael’s 2% website: twpct.com

Final Encouragement

“People are just way more capable than we often think. ... We only realize we are capable if we're willing to take that hard step and just put our foot forward—you're going to figure it out, but you got it, you gotta take the step.” (Michael Easter, 74:34)

This episode delivers a rare, practical look at why we crave more and how to tactically—and meaningfully—shift gears towards enough.