← 13 Minutes Presents: Artemis II
13 Minutes Presents: Artemis II
Artemis II: 5. No going back
00:34:22
The loop round the Moon target is locked in by the last major engine burn of the mission
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- [00:00]
Tim Peake
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk. And, Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.
- [00:14]
Narrator
Even if it means sitting front row
- [00:17]
Tim Peake
at a comedy show.
- [00:18]
Kristin Fisher
Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?
- [00:21]
Tim Peake
Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty. Liberty.
- [00:34]
Sian Cleaver
Liberty.
- [00:35]
Tim Peake
Liberty.
- [00:36]
Narrator
It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. He whispers to himself, it's time to
- [00:45]
Tim Peake
put my balls on the dashboard as
- [00:47]
Narrator
he starts the engine.
- [00:48]
Tim Peake
In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance, unconscious.
- [00:52]
Maggie Adairin
In 15 years, he's a billionaire.
- [00:54]
Narrator
This is Toto Wolff, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive To Survive.
- [01:00]
Maggie Adairin
This week on Good Bad Billionaire, How
- [01:02]
Tim Peake
Toto Wolff made his billions.
- [01:04]
Maggie Adairin
Listen, wherever you get your BBC podcasts,
- [01:19]
Tim Peake
Welcome to 13 Minutes presents Artemis 2 from the BBC World Service. Hello, I'm astronaut Tim Peake and this is episode five, nearing flight day three.
- [01:30]
Maggie Adairin
I'm space scientist Maggie o'. Dearing. We're following the progress of the first crewed mission around the moon in more than 50 years with a new episode every day.
- [01:41]
Sian Cleaver
10 seconds until translunar injection burn. Start.
- [01:45]
Tim Peake
Integrity good. Engine good.
- [01:47]
Kristin Fisher
Control, we have the start of the
- [01:49]
Sian Cleaver
translunar injection burn that will send the crew around the moon, the first humans to do so in over 50 years. Velocity of the spacecraft ticking up now over 23,900 miles per hour.
- [02:02]
Kristin Fisher
Integrity looks like a good burn.
- [02:04]
Sian Cleaver
We're confirming Orion now 520 miles away from Earth. Just five minutes ago, we were only 115 miles above Earth's surface. That distance will continue to increase as we are now on a trajectory to fly around the moon for the first time in over 50 years.
- [02:21]
Tim Peake
On a trajectory to fly around the moon. That was Christina Cook talking to capsule Communicator, which is capcom, during the last big and all important engine burn, which was, of course, the translunar injection of which we were talking about yesterday. Now we are joined, as ever, by space journalist Kristin Fisher. So, Kristin, hello. And it was go to the moon. They are now on their way with no turning back.
- [02:45]
Kristin Fisher
No turning back. Tim and Maggie, it's so good to see you both. And you know when that huge moment happened A few hours ago, one of the things that I loved hearing the most was from Victor Glover, the pilot of this mission, who has access to posting things on social media because remember, they have their own cell phones in space. And he said, let me just put this in a little bit of perspective for you guys. Even though we are go for tli, the translunar injection taking us to the moon, remember our ultimate destination in human spaceflight is always Earth. So I think this crew is now really getting to feel a bit of that overview effect. And Tim, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because they're now really getting to see the Earth as more of that marble in the blackness of space as opposed to the Earth, you know, really filling up your screen through the windows, right?
- [03:40]
Tim Peake
Absolutely, Kristen. And in fact, it's really interesting what you said there because you're right, it's not just the trans lunar ejection taking you to the moon. This burn is also referred to as the deorbit burn because this is the same burn that set them up for a landing, a splashdown in the Pacific in eight days time. It's all based on the trajectory, but the overview effect. Wow. Something that really struck me, just to put some quick numbers on it here, you know, they launched into space doing about 18 and a half thousand miles an hour. Yesterday when we were speaking, there were about 70,000 km in that high Earth orbit and they'd slowed right down to 2,000 miles an hour. And then they fell back to Earth. They were doing about 24,000 miles an hour before the translunar injection, but they were only 115 miles above the earth. That's what, that's 185 kilometers. That's so much lower than, than the space station. And the space station is doing 17 and a half thousand miles an hour. So these guys, they were screaming past the Earth and something I just thought was hilarious is, wow, I have never seen that from the space station. It feels like you're gliding gracefully over the continent. But these guys, they were screaming past. It was quite funny to see, you know, 20, 24,000 miles an hour, only 185 kilometers. But now that's a very different story because all of that speed is now being converted to altitude. They are on their way to the mo and the Earth is getting smaller and smaller in that window. And they've been commenting on it, just, you know, how incredible. They can see the whole of the planet now, which must just be a fantastic sight to see.
- [05:11]
Maggie Adairin
I stayed up to watch the sort of trans lunar injection as well. And I'm getting almost in sync with the crew on board, I think because I'm keeping really weird hours and so almost having sleep breaks and exercise breaks when they're having them, but it's amazing to see. And yeah, the Earth is now just small, like a marble in the view and it just heals. Sort of quite revolutionary that they're going all this way and the fact that this is the last burn that they need because with this burn or so, 5 minutes and 50 seconds, it will take them past around the moon and then back down to Earth. So, yeah, a plain sailing hopefully from here.
- [05:48]
Kristin Fisher
Yeah.
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Tim Peake
Kristin, when we spoke yesterday, you were going to be in a mystery location. So firstly I was wondering where is it that you are? And also about the time difference because of course Maggie and I are here in the UK and as we mentioned, we're staying up into the, the early hours of the morning to watch this. But I think you're on a more sociable time zone in terms of the mission.
- [06:09]
Kristin Fisher
It's much more civilized for me. The TLI took place around seven in the evening yesterday, so I watched that with my family and I have a whole team here at crew. And so I decided to stay at the Kennedy Space Center, a hotel nearby the Kennedy Space center, for one more day to kind of wrap up our things. We've got a ton of equipment, so just took a bit more time to get everything settled. So I'm still at the Kennedy Space Center. But it was nice because I was able to really get a chance to be around people who really, really care about this. I mean, you go out to dinner, you go out, you go out anywhere here right now along Florida's Space coast, and this is all anybody is talking about. And it's so wonderful to have this shared experience that everybody got to experience here together. And just one thing that I loved over the last few hours that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet was, you know, really getting hear from the crew for the first time since they've been in space. And Victor Glover saying, talking about how surprised the crew was by this flawless countdown and launch. And he said, you know, it's a ride where you're trying to be a professional, but the kid inside you wants to break out and hoot and holler. And I just, I love that because I'm sure, you know, Maggie and Tim, you can relate to that too. How many times have we been in front of a microphone or a camera and you're like trying to stay composed, but really you just want to cheer with the rest of them.
- [07:36]
Maggie Adairin
So let out that inner child.
- [07:39]
Kristin Fisher
Yeah, they're just like us.
- [07:41]
Maggie Adairin
But that's really coming across because I've been listening to sort of a live feed from NASA and there's things happening on. They were filling up water bottles because they had that difficulty with the water valve. And so they were filling up sort of water sacks to make sure that they have water. And it's just sort of everyday things that they're doing. And it goes to Capcom and then someone repe. It's a bit like Sigourney Weaver in a galaxy quest. There's always someone there to repeat everything they say as well. But it just seems very, very everyday. Like that sort of campervan in space going to the moon.
- [08:12]
Tim Peake
Absolutely. And again, seeing those images of the crew just enjoying spaceflight. And particularly Jeremy, he seems completely in his comfort zone. I mean, he was. He was beaming again like a child. And I've always known Jeremy to be the consumer professional. He's one of the most professional astronauts I know. And to see him beaming like a little kid, just purely enjoying being in that environment. It was so great to see. He's waited 16 years to fly to space and what a first mission.
- [08:41]
Kristin Fisher
I'm so happy for him. And Christina saying, remember, she's the hero who fixed the toilet. And she said, I'm the space plumber. I'm proud to call myself the space plumber. Everybody's settling into their roles quite nicely,
- [09:07]
Tim Peake
So we're going to move on now. But if you have any questions about the Artemis 2 mission and all that's going on, please do feel free to send us questions and you can email them to 13minutesbc.co.uk. Now, we spoke briefly yesterday about future Artemis plans having changed recently, and Artemis 3, which was going to be boots back on the surface of the moon. Now, it's planned that Artemis 3 will actually not go to the moon. It won't leave Earth orbits. It will demonstrate docking procedures with the human lander system. Now, this is the lander system that's going to have to dock with Orion and actually carry those astronauts down to the surface of the moon. And that will be Artemis 4 doing the boots back on the moon mission.
- [10:00]
Maggie Adairin
And from then on, the plan is to actually build a lunar base on the surface, probably close to the south pole.
- [10:06]
Narrator
We have designed.
- [10:07]
Maggie Adairin
They've discovered the deposits of frozen water and that will lead to a more permanent human presence on the moon with a view of traveling even further Afield. And to me it's a contrast between Artemis and Apollo, because with Apollo it did feel like saber rattling. It was going out there to show that they were the dominant power. But now it does feel as if there's a long term plan. And I must. I've been a bit skeptical in the past as to how much will actually get done, but especially with this launch going so well, it feels tangible and I've always wanted to live on a moon base. So bring it on.
- [10:43]
Kristin Fisher
I think the thing that really sets Artemis apart from Apollo, in addition, of course, to the international cooperation that NASA has with more than 60 plus countries from around the world, even though there is perhaps less public knowledge and support of Artemis as there was in Apollo, just because there's so many other things going on in the world, so many other different forms of distraction. I think what sets Artemis apart from Apollo in terms of hope for the future and hope that finally this is for real is some of the advancements in the private space sector and the commercial space sector. And we're spending so much time talking about human spaceflight as we should, because this is humanity's first return to the moon in over half a century. But it's also the robotic missions, the uncrewed missions, that are going to help make a lunar base, a permanent lunar base. And that's largely going to be done by NASA's CLPS partners here in the United States at least. And these are companies like Intuitive Machines and Firefly and Astrobotic. And what really stood out to me was NASA administrator Jared isaacman saying about 10 days ago now that those providers, those CLPS robotic uncrewed providers starting next year in 2027, are going to be responsible for monthly lunar landings. And that's really going to build the infrastructure and the building blocks for these crewed Artemis missions to use to begin building that lunar base. So it's commercial side of things that really has me so confident.
- [12:34]
Tim Peake
Absolutely. And you know, when you think back to Apollo to make that comparison, it was all publicly funded. And at the height of that program, the United States was spending somewhere close to 5% of their GDP on Apollo. And today's NASA budget is more like 0.5%. And that's still by far the largest budget for any national space agency. And it's the commercial sector that's driving this. I do still think it will be that public private partnership. But what's really interesting is, is commercial companies have ambitions to do this lunar exploration program with or without the space agencies. And so I think that's what's accelerating the program at the moment. And that's what is exciting about Artemis, is we don't see this as just having the risk of one or two missions and then it all falling apart. We. We see this as a progression onto the lunar base and then as a stepping stone onto Mars. Whereas with Apollo there was no infrastructure to actually take it one step further. Every launch was incredibly expensive and the only thing came back was that capture with three people in it. And whilst the first couple of Artemis missions are going to look very similar, actually with starship, with Blue Origin, with the human lander systems, with the commercial programs, and with the international involvement that are going to be involved in, you know, helping to build this research lunar base and also helping to fund it, but helping to accrue it as well, then that gives it a bit more stability and a bit more longevity than the Apollo program otherwise had.
- [14:11]
Maggie Adairin
Funny, I wrote an article a few years ago and it was called the Three Eras of Space. And it was three eras. The first era was confrontation, because it came out of the Second World War. It was all about saber rattling and beating the other guy. And so we lived in that. And that's where the Apollo era was. Then the next era was collaboration, where you get the formation of the European space agency in 1975, you get that handshake in space between the USSR and America. But I do believe that now we are in the era of commercialization where many sort of organizations across the world are talking about sort of how we set up a moon base. Now, as a space scientist, I build sort of satellites for a living. And commercialization in space has been around for a long time. But for human endeavors and getting humans into space, it does feel like a new stepping stone and a very exciting one. But also, I think there's going to be many players in this field. We're talking about sort of NASA sort of sending people back to the moon with collabor, with other countries, but I think other organizations or other countries are going to be looking to get people to the moon. European Space Agency have sort of a plan as to how they might go about that. So we might see a number of different bases on the moon, hopefully in a similar way to Antarctica, where they're all sort of working together and collaborating.
- [15:28]
Kristin Fisher
Oh, that's a lovely comparison, Maggie. I like that. And of course, you know, the other big player, China, and you know, they have just made such tremendous, such rapid progress with their technological prowess in space, be it at their own international space station or with their own deep space rockets and capsules they have been testing at such an impressive rate, not to mention they became the first country ever to land on the far side of the moon not too long ago. And so they are a real competitor. If you want to say that there is a second space race right now between the United States and China. But, you know, I'm somebody who really likes this competition because I think if there wasn't some sort of competition, then perhaps the United States and its partners wouldn't quite feel the pressure as much as they do right now to do this. So I'm a fan of the, of the competition and I think that good, healthy competition is a good thing to get humanity moving. Especially when, as you say, Tim, humans seem so unlikely to give space programs more money than they're doing right now, which is really, in my humble opinion, quite pitiful.
- [16:45]
Tim Peake
The other thing there about the competition, which is really interesting, because depending on who you speak to, they might say it's a space race or not. But if it is a space race, it's very different to the Apollo era. Apollo era was races won when boots are on the moon and the flag is planted. But just if you're the first person to build that research base at the South Pole, that's not a case of, well, your competitors is not going to still try and do it. Of course they are. So even if you consider it a race, it's not a race that one person wins and then everybody gives up and goes home. It's a case of, well, hang on a second. In 15, 20 years time, we could have three, four, five research bases on the surface of the moon. They could be run by different national space agencies. Some might be international partnerships, some might be purely commercial mining endeavors. Who knows? So that's where this Artemis program, I think, is the beginning of a new era of space exploration and one that has much greater longevity and so many
- [17:38]
Kristin Fisher
different types of spacecrafts that could be in the mix, especially when it comes to the human landing Systems. You've got SpaceX's massive starship that could very well be in play. You've got Blue Origins Blue Moon human landing system, which is being tested and built not too far from where I'm sitting right now. But really it's going to be the Orion spacecraft, which is what the Artemis 2 crew is in right now, that's going to be doing the majority of the shuttling between the Earth and the moon. The HLS landing systems are designed to go from lunar orbit to the moon and back But Orion is responsible for getting these astronauts between Earth and the moon for the most part. And it's really built with deep space journeys in mind where there is otherwise no protection from the searing radiation of the sun. And there's even a radiation shelter for the crew that's built in in case a solar flare erupts at some point during their voyage. Although that would be probably a little bit cramped if they actually had to use it, right?
- [18:37]
Tim Peake
Absolutely. And you know, to compare that with the International Space Station, where we are protected a bit by the magnetosphere, our crew quarters are considered those radiation shelters because they've got a bit of higher protection in case there is a solar event or a galactic cosmic ray. And something's really disconcerting for astronauts is when you close your eyes at night to try and fall asleep. You know, there's a few moments where you're waiting to fall asleep and what you see a small streaks of light in your eye, and that's galactic cosmic rays that are hitting the back of your retina. And at first it's quite pretty until you realize that each of one of those, each one of those is a high energy particle that's bombarding through your body. And for example, our camera sensors, they only last about a year on the space station because by then the sensors have been bombarded by so many rays, they're just useless. The camera quality is dreadful. So radiation is a big deal. And of course, this crew, the Artemis II crew, they're going outside of the magnetosphere and they're going to be continuing to measure the radiation level that they're experiencing using dosimeters and to make sure that it's obviously a safe and sustainable way of doing human space exploration. And in addition to things like a radiation shelter on board that Orion, of course, the other thing the crew have to do to keep themselves healthy is to exercise. And so they've even got a small flywheel, an exercise machine, which is going to help the crew not to lose too much muscle mass on this journey, but also thinking ahead for longer journeys.
- [20:06]
Maggie Adairin
And so it sounds like pretty luxurious accommodation in this sort of this campervan going to the moon. But both for this mission and future missions, they need a power source and propulsion to move it along to drive the camper van. So we're delighted to welcome to this episode of 30 Minutes from the BBC World Service, one of the engineers at Airbus Defense and Space who has been at the heart of the Science service module project. And this is Sian Cleaver, who is joining us from Florida.
- [20:47]
Tim Peake
And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it that means sitting front row at a comedy show.
- [20:56]
Kristin Fisher
Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?
- [21:00]
Tim Peake
Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.
- [21:07]
Kristin Fisher
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.
- [21:09]
Tim Peake
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty. Liberty.
- [21:13]
Sian Cleaver
Liberty.
- [21:14]
Tim Peake
Liberty.
- [21:15]
Narrator
It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. He whispers to himself, it's time to
- [21:24]
Tim Peake
put my balls on the dashboard as
- [21:26]
Narrator
he starts the engine.
- [21:27]
Tim Peake
In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance, unconscious.
- [21:30]
Maggie Adairin
In 15 years, he's a billionaire.
- [21:33]
Narrator
This is Toto Wolff, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to Survive.
- [21:39]
Maggie Adairin
This week on Good Bad Billionaire, How
- [21:41]
Tim Peake
Toto Wolff made his billions.
- [21:42]
Maggie Adairin
Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts
- [21:48]
Tim Peake
foreign.
- [21:53]
Maggie Adairin
Hello and welcome to 13 Minutes Presents. Now let's get down to the basics Straight away, what does the European service module bring to the party that the Orion capsule can't do on its own?
- [22:04]
Sian Cleaver
Well, quite simply, Orion can't get to the moon without the European Service module. So the European service module is actually one half of the Orion spacecraft. So you've got the crew module on the top where the astronauts are actually sitting, but behind that you have the this big cylindrical service module, and that's got everything inside it that's needed to keep the astronauts alive. So, for example, we've got big oxygen and nitrogen tanks so that we can mix those together to make the air. We've also got big water tanks. So that's actually the water that will be fed into the crew module and the astronauts will drink that. And then of course, we've got a thermal control system. So the environment of space is very harsh, so we can actually measure, well, monitor and make sure that the Orion spacecraft is at the exact right temperature that it needs to be. And then we have these big four solar arrays as well, generating all the electricity that the spacecraft needs. And then the final point, we have that big engine that is part of the European Service module, and that's what gives the kick to the moon.
- [23:02]
Tim Peake
And now, Sian, you mentioned that engine, the OMSI engine, I think creates about 6,000 pounds of thrust or something. And of course, last night was its big moment. The translunar Injection and should point out that's the first time that we've seen the European Service module do that, because on Artemis 1 we had the interim cry cryogenic propulsion stage and that's what gave it the boost to go to the moon. So that was a big moment last night. How are you feeling at that point?
- [23:29]
Sian Cleaver
Oh, absolutely. I mean, there was obviously a sigh of relief when everything went to plan, but also I think just the whole team is feeling incredibly proud now that what they have built has done such a successful maneuver as this translunar injection maneuver. I mean, everybody was buzzing, there was emails going back and forth. Everybody was so excited to see our baby functioning exactly as we designed it out there on its way to deep space.
- [23:55]
Tim Peake
It was wonderful to see that very smooth 5 minute and 50 second burn. And it is of course the European built part of the Artemis architecture, as you pointed out. And you've already delivered the next few to NASA, I believe. So how many are you contracted to build and what does this tell us about the likelihood of future missions actually happening?
- [24:14]
Sian Cleaver
Yes, so we're actually under contract to build six European Service modules at the moment. So as much as all of the spotlight is on ESM number two at the moment flying on Artemis 2, really what we're doing back home in Bremen in Germany, a lot of our attention is focused on ESMs 5 and 6 because we've delivered the others. We've delivered obviously ESM 1 and 2, they're flying or have flown in space. Artanet M3 and 4 takes use of the third and four service modules and those two are already in Kennedy Space center waiting to go testing and then obviously mating with other parts of the Orion spacecraft. So really my day to day job is mostly focused on ESN 5 and 6. So we're a few years ahead in the future really. But that just gives you an idea of of the long timescales involved in doing something like these Artemis missions. We're planning many years ahead. We're already got all of our hardware and we're thinking ahead to the future.
- [25:07]
Kristin Fisher
So Sean, it's great to hear that you all are so far ahead. But as you know, in this day and age, with this climate and dealing with the Trump administration, anything can happen. And even though international cooperation is a cornerstone of the Artemis program, you never know what's going to happen, especially when you hear the press conference that NASA gave just a few days ago really shaking up the Artemis architecture. And so I'm curious how you all at Airbus think about these potential changes and Volatility when dealing with a country and a partner like the United States
- [25:41]
Sian Cleaver
right now, I mean, it's been a bit of a roller coaster. Don't get me wrong. We've all been up and down and thinking, worrying at times about the future of our contribution. But actually, I see the latest announcements as something really positive. The cadence is increasing, we're speeding up. Things are getting more serious. It's really nice to now have clear mission profiles for Artemis 3 and 4. We didn't really have that before. It was all speculation. So for our team back home, I think we're starting to feel a bit more settled now, now that we know what's coming in the future, and I think also very optimistic. There are going to be a lot of opportunities on the Artemis program beyond these sort of initial first lunar missions. I really think that there are opportunities up for grabs to be involved in this program. And I really hope that Europe stays a part of that, and I'm sure it will. I mean, we've simply got excellent heritage here that we can really make use of in many different ways, in many different guises, if it needs to be.
- [26:37]
Kristin Fisher
It's wonderful to hear and you guys have already proven how flexible and adaptable you are, because I believe the origins of the European Service Module were actually quite different. They were for a totally different European mission. Right. How were you all able to reconfigure that and get it ready for a ride?
- [26:54]
Sian Cleaver
Yeah, absolutely. So the European Service Module was sort of, sort of has its origins in the atv, the Automated Transfer Vehicle. So Airbus delivered five of those and they were a cargo transport vehicle that was taking cargo up to the International Space Station. So the idea was that we would build upon these ATVs and turn it into this European Service Module. Now, as things have evolved over the years, I mean, they do look quite different. I mean, simply one was for cargo and the other one is now responsible for supporting human life up in space. So they're very different inside, but roughly the blueprint of them, you know, the external diameter and things like that, looks a little bit familiar. But of course, what really comes into play there is the heritage and the brains behind this. A lot of the people who work to develop the ATV then went on to develop the esm. So that's where the key transfer of knowledge has been. We used our expertise, everything that we learned from the ATV and put that into developing the European Service Market module.
- [27:52]
Maggie Adairin
I suppose that's quite important because I think people think of a space science as, you know, cutting edge and using the latest technology, but having that heritage and things that have been tied and tested. Could you explain why that's so important when you're sort of going to the moon, for instance?
- [28:06]
Sian Cleaver
Well, absolutely. I mean, going to space is difficult. It might seem super easy. I mean, look how well that launch went. Right. It looks like there's a piece of cake. But actually it's, it's very challenging. It's very difficult. And we don't want to waste what we've learned from the past. Right. Okay. As much as Artemis is very different to the Apollo missions, there will be knowledge and heritage that's evolved into maybe the space shuttle program and is now seeing itself in another guise under the Artemis program. So, I mean, space is challenging. So we need to build on all of the experience that we've had in the past to make something as difficult as the Artemis program come to life.
- [28:42]
Tim Peake
And Sian, when we're talking in this podcast, we're probably going to be very guilty of saying things like the Earth's getting small in the window and the moon's getting bigger in the window. But the reality is, is that those windows aren't always pointing at the Earth or the moon. And the orientation of the spacecraft is really dependent on the needs of the European Service module because it's about generating power. So can you talk to us a bit about those really important solar panels and what they're doing for the Orion spacecraft?
- [29:13]
Sian Cleaver
Yes. So we have these four solar array wings. They've got a 19 meter wingspan, if you like, and 15,000 cells on them. And in total they're producing 11 kilowatts of electric, which is a bit of an abstract number, but that actually is enough power to power two sort of average three bedroom homes back home. So they're incredibly powerful. And these solar arrays, they can actually sort of move. They can sort of gimbal and turn on their solar array drive mechanism. And that allows us to tilt the solar arrays so that they can follow the sun and generate electricity in the most efficient way. You know, when you're at home, you position your solar arrays on the top of your roof in the direction that's facing the sun. We do the same thing on our spacecraft on Orion. So we're steering those solar arrays. We can also sort of bend them backwards and make the spacecraft a little bit more sort of streamlined, if you like, when it's doing certain orbital maneuvers in space. So they're really complex. They're not just wings sat there in a fixed position. They're moving, they're constantly adjusting to make sure that they're working the most efficiently.
- [30:16]
Tim Peake
So just to pick up this one side of the solar panels, they're pointing at the sun. And is it right that the other side of the solar panels, they're actually doing a job as well? They're radiating heat away out into space, is that right?
- [30:29]
Sian Cleaver
Yes, absolutely. I mean, we touched on it before. Space is a really harsh environment. So if you've got one side of the spacecraft pointed to the sun, it's going to get incredibly hot and then the other side will get incredibly cold. So you really need to balance that the thermal energy. Otherwise you get all sorts of stresses on the solar arrays or on the spacecraft itself. So, yes, whenever we think about something that's pointing to the sun, we need to also consider getting rid of that heat energy on the other side of the spacecraft to keep a nice stable temperature.
- [31:02]
Kristin Fisher
One of the other nice perks of these solar panel arms has been the fact that they've proved to be a quite useful place to, to clip a camera. Right. It's like a 7 meter long selfie stick pointing back at the spacecraft. And we thought it might be fun to share a short clip from just before the Trans Lunar injection, the TLI yesterday, when the commander Reed Weissman, was testing out that exercise machine, pulling the flywheel back and forth. And you know, Jeremy Hansen, and many of us down here on Earth could actually see the back of Orion appearing to sway back and forth. And, you know, he asked Houston if that had anything to do with the exercise machine.
- [31:43]
Tim Peake
Okay, Reid, looks like the good news is that was a good test and what we're seeing is a crew member exercising. Yep, Mike was totally fine with that.
- [31:54]
Sian Cleaver
We just wanted to do the test real quick.
- [31:56]
Tim Peake
So I'll go ahead and stop it now.
- [31:57]
Kristin Fisher
We know it's got a good end to end work.
- [32:00]
Tim Peake
All right, excellent.
- [32:01]
Kristin Fisher
Thank you, Sean. Is that normal, the solar panels flexing and bending as Reid is essentially on a glorified rowing machine?
- [32:13]
Sian Cleaver
Well, absolutely. I mean, that was part of the mission objectives of Artemis 2 was to see how the Orion spacecraft behave with a crew of astronauts on board. So when we flew Artemis I, of course, that was uncrewed. We were testing out the systems and getting the data back about the spacecraft working. Now we're seeing how the spacecraft behaves on board. So of course, when the astronauts move inside and do things such as exercising on the flywheel, that is going to create a reaction on the spacecraft. And that's what we saw with those solar arrays. So really that is a really useful bit of information for us. I also heard that the scientists and engineers are very interested to see how the spacecraft reacts to when they, for example, dump carbon dioxide outside of the spacecraft. Again, there'll be a reaction there. So. And those reactions will need to be corrected. If that moves the Orion spacecraft off its trajectory slightly, we'll have to do a correction burn. So this is really exciting stuff that we're getting. And, you know, it's the first time we're seeing Orion work in this way and Newton's laws at work.
- [33:13]
Maggie Adairin
It's wonderful to see it, you know, right there in front of us.
- [33:16]
Sian Cleaver
Absolutely.
- [33:17]
Tim Peake
I have to say we had the same thing on the International Space Station. It was quite funny because there was one time where the stresses and strains, which are constantly being monitored, were beginning to get towards the maximum level of tolerance. And the engineers were calling up and saying, we're not quite sure what's happening, but every now and again. And it tended to happen around about the same time in the evening that the space station was flexing and bending and reaching these parameters, which were really starting to be of great concern. And they finally realized that it was a Russian crew member who would often call his partner at the same time. Every evening he'd go to his crew quarter and whilst talking, he would just gently like to float up, float down and push off from the ceiling and then push off with his feet, you know, to pass the time when you're chatting. But what he was doing was just imparting these forces on the space station.
- [34:06]
Maggie Adairin
And because the.
- [34:07]
Tim Peake
The Russian crew quarters are right at one end of the International Space Station, he was hitting the resonant frequency and the whole space station was flexing and bending. Did take a while to work out what the problem was. So we actually often do get a call up from Houston to say, hey, was anybody doing something strange at a certain time? Because, you know, we've noticed these stresses and strains. So, yeah, treadmills, rowing machines, that kind of thing, that's definitely going to set off some. Some bending and flexing on that spacecraft.
- [34:37]
Kristin Fisher
Well, if that's what the Artemis 2 crew saw when Reed Wiseman was exercising on the flywheel, imagine what's going to happen when Jeremy Hansen gets his turn to exercise. The largest of the four crew members. That should be something to see. That's the real stress test, right?
- [34:52]
Tim Peake
Yeah, yeah. We actually had their fluid physics experiment that was running quite often. It was called the Marangoni Experiment. Experiment or Marangoni Experiment. But on those evenings when they ran it while we are asleep, so there was minimum movement. They used to call up and just say, everybody, please be really careful moving about the space station. Don't go too fast, don't hang off the handrails, you know, don't cause any stresses and strains so that these fluid physics experiments would have that perfect zero G environment. So it is a concern concern that you have to think about is the actual crew inside moving around this spacecraft and causing forces on it. Well, unfortunately, that's all we've got time for, but thank you so much, Sian, for joining us on the podcast and bringing your expertise and thank you as ever, Kristen.
- [35:40]
Maggie Adairin
See you again tomorrow.
- [35:41]
Kristin Fisher
See you guys tomorrow. Thanks.
- [35:44]
Tim Peake
And as a reminder, if you want to send us any questions at all, you can drop us an email@13minutesbc.co.uk we're doing an episode every day for this mission, so do follow or subscribe to 13min so that you never miss an episode. But that's it for today. So goodbye from me, Tim Peake and me, Maggie Adairin.
- [36:07]
Maggie Adairin
The producers are Alex Manfield and Sophie Ormiston and the series editor is Martin Smith.
- [36:13]
Tim Peake
And our thanks to Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg at Bleeding Fingers Music for our theme music.
- [36:18]
Maggie Adairin
13 Minutes presents Artemis 2 is a BBC audio science production for the BBC World Service.
- [36:37]
Narrator
It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous race racetrack. He whispers to himself, it's time to
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Tim Peake
put my balls on the dashboard as
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Narrator
he starts the engine.
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Tim Peake
In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance, unconscious.
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Maggie Adairin
In 15 years, he's a billionaire.
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Narrator
This is Toto Wolff, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to Survive.
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Maggie Adairin
This week on Good Bad Billionaire, How
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Tim Peake
Toto Wolff made his billions.
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Maggie Adairin
Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts.