Superheroes Should Be Flawed & Funny w/ James Gunn | 2 Bears, 1 Cave

Summary

2 Bears, 1 Cave: "Superheroes Should Be Flawed & Funny w/ James Gunn" Podcast: 2 Bears, 1 Cave (YMH Studios)
Guests: Bert Kreischer (host), Tom Segura (briefly), James Gunn (guest)
Air Date: September 22, 2025

---

Overview

This episode features acclaimed filmmaker James Gunn—now head of DC Studios—sitting in for Tom Segura alongside Bert Kreischer. The conversation dives into the evolution of superhero storytelling, comedy’s place in film and TV, actor growth, behind-the-scenes decisions, visual effects, and the creative process. Gunn and Kreischer share anecdotes about Peacemaker, the casting of Superman, and how humor and flaws make characters unforgettable.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Gunn on Peacemaker & John Cena’s Growth

• Gunn discusses Peacemaker’s second season and his collaboration with John Cena.
• Cena’s acting evolution is a major theme, as Gunn recalls his transformation into a more emotionally versatile actor.
  • "He’s much more comfortable in his own skin." – James Gunn [03:12]
  • Gunn shares a story of Cena breaking down in a scene, impressive for someone who once found crying on camera daunting.

2. Comedy, Acting, and Creative Backgrounds

• Bert outlines his path from Groundlings improv to stand-up, highlighting the difficulty of balancing multiple creative pursuits.
• Gunn humorously confirms he moved to Tucson (not LA) to pursue music, illustrating the non-linear path for creators.

3. Storytelling: Blending Genres and Grounding the Fantastic

• Both agree that grounded performances and storylines, even in outlandish worlds (like superheroes or cartel doppelgängers) enhance comedy and drama.
  • "It’s a superhero show, but it’s not really a superhero show. It’s about human beings…" – James Gunn [06:01]
  • “What makes the funny part funny is that we’re playing it like it’s real.” – Bert Kreischer [07:01]

4. The State of Comedy in Film & TV

• Both lament the decline of theatrical comedies and discuss how trailers and marketing often fail to capture a film’s true tone.
  • "There hasn’t been a good comedy that’s gotten people to… go to the theater." – James Gunn [09:49]
  • "Some of these big studio comedies, you can just sense that there’s 10 voices." – Bert Kreischer [14:36]

5. Superheroes: The Importance of Flaws and Humor

• Gunn argues that serious, flawless heroes are less compelling—audiences relate to vulnerability and wit.
  • “Pretending like if something’s serious, there’s no humor… is just a crock of shit.” – James Gunn [18:17]
  • Discusses Daniel Craig’s take on Bond, and how imperfection made 007 more interesting [18:59].
  • Gunn highlights that women characters also deserve as many flaws as men.

6. Industry Pressures & Leading DC Studios

• Bert asks about the unique pressures of running DC Studios and making Superman.
  • Gunn opens up about feeling overwhelmed but also exhilarated by the creative opportunity.
  • “When this job first came up, I was really torn… But it was an opportunity that no one had ever had, in terms of being a creative at the head of a studio.” – James Gunn [23:10]
  • Gunn relives the anxiety before the Superman reviews came out and the massive relief when it was a hit [26:23].
  • “Now I can have fun… I know so much more what I’m doing with the character…” – James Gunn [26:42]

7. Audience Connection & Different Voices

• Gunn describes the difference between making R-rated TV versus family films and sees each project as a conversation with the audience.
  • “A movie… is a conversation that you’re having with the audience…” – James Gunn [29:23]

8. The Writing Process

• Gunn details his scriptwriting routine—from loose ideas to thorough treatments and rapid first drafts—emphasizing flexibility and rewriting.
  • "Locking in at that point is really the death of the creative process." – James Gunn [34:09]
  • Shares his method: outlines, notes, evolving drafts, collaborative feedback.

9. Production Realities: Time, Budgets, and Schedules

• Both reflect on shooting schedules and the stress of big productions.
  • Gunn reveals he does not use second units and prides himself on efficiency and coming in under budget [38:00].
  • "I storyboard every single frame of the movie… I don’t like waste." – James Gunn [40:40]
  • Contrasts custom scheduling with recent DC productions that were far more sprawling.

10. Visual Effects and the Rise of the Superhero Blockbuster

• The advancements in VFX are key to the genre’s explosion.
  • “Superhero movies all became the rage… It’s simply visual effects.” – James Gunn [42:02]
  • Bert notes how certain older visual effects now seem laughable, citing 'The Fugitive' [43:22].

11. Casting Decisions: Risks and Chemistry

• Gunn recounts tough recasting decisions on Peacemaker, emphasizing the importance of chemistry and finding the right fit, even after filming has begun [69:06].
  • Tells the story of recasting Vigilante and how sometimes first choices do not work on screen.
  • On casting Superman: "If we can’t find the right guy, I am not gonna make this movie…" [73:15]
  • Gunn found David Corenswet in only the second audition, recognizing his ability to balance humor and weight as Superman [74:03].

12. The Mythology and Emotional Core of Storytelling

• Gunn is influenced by Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey and prioritizes the emotional core of characters, even in genres that seem comedic or spectacular.
  • “I am ultimately married to storytelling, not to cinema.” – James Gunn [66:59]

13. Fan Culture, Batman, and Superhero Lore

• Discussion shifts to how deeply personal fans’ desires are about superhero details (Batman’s color palette, eye color, yellow utility belt).
  • "There’s a religious aspect to so much of this stuff…" – James Gunn [50:47]
• Both reminisce about what first drew them to superheroes, from Adam West to Michael Keaton and Neil Adams comics.
• Gunn highlights that Batman’s innumerable interpretations are part of his longevity and appeal [53:14].

14. Personal Life & Having Fun

• Gunn admits he struggles to relax, as work tends to dominate his life, but enjoys weekly meetups with old friends and walks with his dog [63:05].
• Bert laments that high-achieving creative people sometimes lose their sense of playfulness; Gunn admits he takes the work seriously but not himself, and prioritizes storytelling over status [65:59].

15. Memorable Quotes

• "People laugh, man. People say dumb stuff. People make jokes. People laugh. That’s… life." – James Gunn [17:22]
• "I’m here to play and make money." – James Gunn [66:19]
• "I want them to have that feeling of magic… When the first Star Wars came out, I was… Oh my God, I want to inject that into my brain." – James Gunn [60:00]
• "If Rocket was real, what would he be?… the saddest creature in the universe." – James Gunn [61:13]

---

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Peacemaker/Cena’s Growth: [02:23–03:15]
• Grounded Comedy in Superhero Storytelling: [06:01–07:19]
• Industry Pressure of Headlining DC Studios: [22:28–24:06]
• Superman Reviews Relief: [26:23–27:33]
• Balancing Creative Control and Studio Voices: [14:36–15:56]
• Visual Effects and Superhero Film Evolution: [41:30–43:14]
• Casting Superman: [72:27–75:10]
• Storytelling vs. Cinema: [66:59]
• Recasting Vigilante: [69:06–70:55]
• Fan Debates about Batman: [50:12–54:56]
• Guardians of the Galaxy’s Emotional Heart: [61:13–62:38]

---

Conclusion

James Gunn’s appearance on "2 Bears, 1 Cave" is a revealing, candid exploration of filmmaking, creativity, and the ever-evolving superhero genre. Whether discussing John Cena’s surprising emotional depth, the tension of rebooting iconic characters, or the personal philosophy that laughter and flaws make heroes relatable, Gunn remains grounded and insightful. The episode is packed with industry wisdom, deep-cut anecdotes, and plenty of humor—a must-listen for fans of comedy, superheroes, and storytelling alike.

Transcript

[Tom Segura]

100%.

[Bert Kreischer]

All right, we have great news. My regular co host isn't here, and so sitting in for him is a prolific filmmaker. A sentence you don't normally hear on this show, but we're super stoked to have him. So give it up real big for James Gunn, everybody.

[James Gunn]

Oh, listen to those claps. Oh, I'm excited. I don't think I can. I can't feel. Bert Shoes.

[Bert Kreischer]

You should hear their normal claps. It's usually like, really, like.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, it's really sad.

[Bert Kreischer]

That was genuine.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

They're big fans.

[James Gunn]

Wow. That's cool.

[Bert Kreischer]

Everybody here's a big fan, and I'm.

[James Gunn]

A big fan of yours. Well, thank you. Well, no, I've contacted you on Twitter.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

How great you are. One of the. Or one of those things. I don't know.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're very kind. Just to reiterate to everybody, PeaceMaker is on HBO. Or Max. Or Max. HBO. Whatever name they've chosen this week, it is. It's airing Thursdays at night. Wait. It comes out at a certain time.

[James Gunn]

It comes out at 9 o', clock, and people watch it at 9 o'. Clock.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's like old school. Like, when they give you a time.

[James Gunn]

It is, it is. I mean, obviously you can still watch it at 9, 15, 9, 20. But at 9 is when it.

[Bert Kreischer]

It drops. Okay, drops at 9. It's in its second season. I got to say, dude, I was. First of all, there's so many goddamn shows now. Like, you know, when we were growing up, they're like. There's four shows. Like, you just could just kind of go through shows. Yeah, you knew every movie because there was, like, a campaign for a movie and, like, you know, to catch up on things. It's kind of mind blowing. It is a really fucking fun watch. Like, Peacemaker is really fun. I was actually. I gotta say, I was kind of blown away at not just like, what a fun ride it is, but, like, watching Cena. He's.

[James Gunn]

He's so good.

[Bert Kreischer]

He's so good.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. No, in this season, I mean, so we did the first, you know. You know, going way back. The reason I wanted to do Peacemaker was because of my relationship with John. Working with him on the Suicide Squad.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And I saw something in him that was so. I knew he was a good actor. And we did the first season of Peacemaker and we worked on that a lot. And since then, he's gone off and he's acted, you know, in more things between the two seasons of Peacemaker than he had before that. And the change in him from season one to season two and what he's capable of has been an incredible thing to watch.

[Bert Kreischer]

So it's notable to you, like, as the.

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah, it's completely notable to me. He's, you know, really gone to a place where. I mean, there's a scene in episode one of this season where I'm like, you know, he's meeting his brother from another dimension who's dead in our dimension. And, you know, he walks out of the room and I say, I think you break down crying, you know, John, I said, don't worry about really crying. Just like, you know, put your head in your hands and, like, you know, heave. And immediately he just. The guy walks. David Dedman, who plays his brother, walks out of the room, and John just has these tears spill down his face, and I'm like, what is going on? This is not the same guy who I worked with four years ago on the first season who was, like, had the scene where he was supposed to be crying in bed and he was terrified to do it because he'd never done anything like that in his life. He's just. He's much more comfortable in his own skin.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. That's really cool to watch.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

To see someone evolve and kind of, like, get better at their craft, basically.

[James Gunn]

How do you. I mean, you. So you're acting now?

[Bert Kreischer]

I'm acting, yes.

[James Gunn]

And how do you like that? How do you like the.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, kind of like. I know that you moved to LA when you. Like, when you first was to pursue music, right? No, didn't you want to know?

[James Gunn]

I moved. No, I. To pursue music. I made the really wise choice of moving to Tucson, Arizona.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, that's the music haven.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. The mecca. The mecca of. Of, you know, early alternative rock. No, I lived all over the place, but I moved to LA in 98, and I was. I was already a screenwriter by the time.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, when I moved to LA in 2002.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

With the soul, like, the sole purpose was just to pursue acting and comedy. Acting. Right. Like. Like, I wanted to do comedy.

[James Gunn]

You weren't doing stand up?

[Bert Kreischer]

I wasn't doing stand up.

[James Gunn]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

I had no. Like, it wasn't even on the radar.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And when I moved there, I. I was like, what should I do? You know, like, how do I do this? And I knew. I discovered that a lot of these comedy actors were. They went through the Groundlings.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

So I was like, that's what I'll do. I'll just go to the grounding.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

So I Went there. I'm in their school. I'm doing the levels, and a couple people in my class were like, you should try stand up. You would, like, stand up. And I was like, I don't know what to do.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I kind of followed them doing spots, and then stand up just became something that I fell in love with. Meanwhile, you try to keep, like. For me, it was harder to keep, like, the. The. The burner on here and do, like. I was like, I kind of have. Feel like I have to be all in on standup.

[James Gunn]

Right.

[Bert Kreischer]

So, you know, every time. Once in a while, I would book something commercial or, like, five lines on this. But I was clearly on the standup path. Yeah, but you're kind of like, it never fades. You're like, I really wanted to do this.

[James Gunn]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Bert Kreischer]

So, like, then I did my series, and I just did a feature this summer that we just wrapped, and now we're going into season two. So now it's.

[James Gunn]

What's the feature?

[Bert Kreischer]

The feature is. It's a script. It's called El Tigre.

[James Gunn]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Which.

[James Gunn]

That was the name of my grandmother's cat.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, really?

[James Gunn]

El Tigre. Yes. That was the first cat I ever met.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's a great name.

[James Gunn]

Wanted nothing to do with me.

[Bert Kreischer]

So I play a Mexican cartel leader named El Tigre, and I also play an American named Jeff, who's his doppelganger. And so when Jeff goes on vacation with friends, the real El Tigre gets assassinated. And then they. People find Jeff, and they're like, oh, you're El Tigre.

[James Gunn]

Oh, cool.

[Bert Kreischer]

So he's in this, like, world. But the great thing was we assembled this incredible cast, and the movie is played, like, very grounded.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, I love that.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's very fun.

[James Gunn]

I mean, that's Peacemaker, too. Really? I mean, it really is about, like. It's a superhero show, but it's not really a superhero show. It's about human beings, and a couple of them happen to sometimes put on costumes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[James Gunn]

And it's. It's something that's treated, you know, as if that's all completely real. You know, of course, with comedy and some outlandish characters, for sure. It's. It's all grounded. The camera work is grounded. The way we acted is grounded.

[Bert Kreischer]

The performances. Yeah. And it's like. It's great characters. And, you know, like, as an actor in this, I got to do a full range of things. I got to be, like, a super violent guy. I got to break down crying. I got to have, like, fun Like, I get to be the reactor in certain moments, and then you get to be, like, the person bringing the comedy. So it was the most fun I've ever had.

[James Gunn]

That's what I mean. I love that aesthetic of an outlandish concept like that.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

Or like Peacemaker going to another dimension where there's another version of himself, but played as if it's, you know, as if we were experiencing this.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's what makes the funny part funny, though.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And some totally. Some, you know, execs and producers don't get that. And they're like, what if you were juggling in the scene and you're like, the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, like, they're like. Like, they're like, you know, something funny. You're like, no, it's funny that we're playing it. Like it's real.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. But I love how those esthetics have sort of caught up with culture. Because if you remember, like, way back, like, you know, I remember when Freaks and Geeks.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, sure.

[James Gunn]

When it came out on the air and I saw this show, it was like, I just happened to watch it, like, on its. The first time it was on tv. I have no clue what year that was. I guess late 90s.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, late 90s.

[James Gunn]

And I just happened, and I'm like, holy crap. This is, like, so grounded and well done and truly funny. Not in a forced way, but just funny. Funny and about real kids and shot like, a real show. Paul Feig was shooting it, and of course, nobody watched it. And it lasted for not so many episodes. And everything was so broad back then. And little by little, with, you know, with that, you know, and then the Office and, you know, of course, you know, Sopranos and Shield and all those shows coming out on tv, the esthetics of what people want have changed and have gotten closer to what I liked, you know, when I was younger and was starving for and never really had enough of.

[Bert Kreischer]

Do you think we'll have a. Like. Because everything kind of feels in entertainment and movies, like, pretty cyclical, you know, like, things kind of go in this path, but, like, comedies, like studio comedies have become. Feels like they're just. There's not really that many of that's.

[James Gunn]

I mean, that's the big question. I mean, people are. I'm like, in the industry is like a studio head. People are always talking about, you know, you can. You know, obviously, some types of movies are harder sells, Right?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Dramas, they're harder sells because you can do them on TV and people can watch them at Home with their family. And they'll have, you know, everything has. For me, everything should be, you know, could be a theatrical experience is going to be better, but you lose less from a drama than you do from, say, a horror movie.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Where the audience is screaming. Or from a spectacle film where it's, like, so big and, like, knocked up. Did I screw up your mic here? Or, like, you know, or for me, a comedy. Yeah, but the. But comedies have sort of not been at, you know, the box office. There hasn't really been hit comedies. And that, to me, seems like the best type of. That's the movie. I mean, I remember going to see, like, the Hangover in the theater, just surrounded by people I didn't know. And, you know, you walk out of there, it's like family. It's like being a comedy show.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's the greatest experience.

[James Gunn]

And so, you know, what is it? I think, I mean, I honestly think it's the material.

[Bert Kreischer]

I think it is, too.

[James Gunn]

I think that there hasn't been a good comedy that's gotten people to, you know, and there maybe there have been some good comedies, but when people go see a bad comedy and another bad comedy and another bad comedy, then they don't want to go to the, you know, theater. Totally comedy. The same with superhero movies. Like, that's why, you know, you know, superhero movies have, you know, you know, it's a harder marketplace. And one of the reasons is people feel tricked.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Tom Segura]

You know, this show is sponsored by Ethos. I got life insurance when I was 32. I remember having an uncomfortable conversation with my dad. I was at a coffee shop in the farmer's market, and he was explaining the importance of life insurance to me. I just started having a family. We had Georgia. And he was explaining awkwardly that if something happened to me, what was going.

[James Gunn]

To happen to her?

[Tom Segura]

I couldn't just leave my family in the lurch. And that is why I got life insurance. And I think life insurance is so important. And if you're looking, if you don't have life insurance. Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance fast, easy to protect your family's future in minutes, not months. There's no complicated process. And it's 100% online, no medical exam required, which is awesome. You just need to answer a few health questions, get a quote. In as little as 10 minutes, you can get same day coverage without ever leaving your home. You can get up to $3 million in coverage. In some policies as low as $2 a day, billed monthly. 3 million families have completed their applications and trusted Ethos to help find the right coverage. Ethos is a trustworthy company that disrupts the traditional life insurance industry. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam, instant life insurance provider. And let me tell you something that no medical exam takes the stress out of life insurance. Get your family covered today. I mean, do it today. You don't wait for tomorrow. Tomorrow's never promised. Carpe diem. Seize the day. And seize it with life insurance. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free [e-mail] bears that's ethos.com bears Application times may vary. Rates may vary. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We've all done it before. Turn to our baristas, our hairdressers, or maybe just a random stranger in the bathroom for life advice as fun as they are to talk with about everyday topics. When you're looking for help about relationships, anxiety, depression or other clinical issues, they may not have all the right answers. Instead, get guidance from a licensed therapist online with better help. Online therapy is awesome. It's, I feel like it's a cheap code, old school therapy where you had to drive there, you get in traffic, you'd lose your mind. And by the time you sat down in their waiting room, because you still had to wait, you had to be there 50 minutes early. I mean, therapy in essence would take two hours for an hour therapy. Now you bang it out online and I'm telling you, it's so helpful. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's convenient also, you can join a session with the therapist at a click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com bears that's betterhelp.com bears they loved.

[James Gunn]

Going to see, you know what, you know, ever that that movie was that got them into superhero movies, whether it was Iron man or Spider Man 2 or Guardians or whatever. And then, you know, they go, and then they're like, well, this is really just a pale imitation of that thing that I liked. And then they go again and they're like, oh, it's this one's even worse. Yeah, and they're like, well, shoot, I'll wait for, you know, hbo.

[Bert Kreischer]

Max, I think you're totally right. I think that, like, with comedy, too, there's this thing where when you see a trailer for some of these comedies coming out.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're watching the trailer and you're like, I. First of all, I know every beat of this. Like, there's no. You always have to have some element of surprise.

[James Gunn]

Right.

[Bert Kreischer]

So, like, you know the beats and you're like, this is. They're putting the funniest stuff in this trailer, and it looks like shit. And what I always think is, I always think about a director because I go, you need. I think. I think in all filmmaking, you need like a final. Like, this is your pov. This is you at the helm.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And some of these big studio comedies, you can just sense that there's 10 voices being like, it's this, it's this. It doesn't feel like it's one guys or girls vision of, like, this is the. This is the movie.

[James Gunn]

And also they lack story. Like, what I like about the. The idea that you told me about is that there's an. There's an idea that people can hook their, you know, hats on. So having that central idea that you can put in a trailer and people will understand is good.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

But I do. I also think that unlike a horror movie, which is kind of easy to sell in a trailer because all of us get scared in the same way, people laugh at different things in a movie. Like, again, I'm going to go back to the Hangover because I think it's one of the best.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's fantastic. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

That has a central premise that I'm talking about.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And then it has, you know, comedy for, like, real broad comedy that's just for everybody. Mike Tyson with the tiger. And then a lot of stuff that's a lot more subtle for the people who really like, you know, nuanced comedy.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And so it works for everybody in the audience. Well, how do you cut that trailer? It can be a little bit difficult because you've got to be able to sell that to a mass audience. And people's light, you know, likes the kinds of comedy they like is. Is more varied than the type of horror they like.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[James Gunn]

That's, you know, so it's. It can be a little bit harder to cut a comedy.

[Bert Kreischer]

Does it interest you at all to, like. I mean, you're. You have very funny material in your movies.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But, like, to do a comedy that is outside of superhero world, like, Like. Like a hangover type story.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it would be a lot of fun to do that. I mean, I think there's always an emotional angle to whatever I do, but. And I don't. I mean, people often think of, you know, the Guardians movies as part comedy. I never have. I never thought of. I make myself laugh when I'm writing.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

But I never. I mean, I can't say that completely because I did have a lot of, you know, links with comedy when I first came to town and I started my, you know, career in a lot of ways. Every year I'd write a different comedy pilot for whatever network I was, you know, getting work from.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[James Gunn]

But, you know, but originally when I started writing and people were like, oh, my God, it's so funny, and they're laughing, I didn't really. I'm like, oh, yeah. I guess I knew it was funny when I wrote it, but that wasn't, like, the point of what I was writing. Yeah. So, like, your.

[Bert Kreischer]

Your point was more what, the story and the emotional connection to it.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. The characters and, you know, the fun of it, whatever. And I think that just naturally it becomes. It's funny because I'm funny, I guess.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, you are.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I mean, there's. There's. There's really funny stuff.

[James Gunn]

And. But, you know, laughing in my real life is important. I mean, it's like, you know, joking around, making jokes, like, that's my personality in real life. And also, that's the other thing. I mean, I get this thing sometimes from fans online. Why are, you know, why is Peacemaker so funny? This is. Superheroes are serious stuff, which, of course, is silly in the first place. Yeah, but superheroes are serious stuff. And I'm like, yeah, but people laugh, man. People say dumb stuff. People make jokes. People laugh. Like, that's. If you have a movie that is deadly serious all the way. I worked in a hospital when I was young. I was, like, surrounded by people dying and people being brought in with gunshot wounds, and I'd have to move all the bodies in the morgue. And I. We just joked constantly that that gallows humor, that's that thing. So I don't care what kind of thing you're working on, people deal with that stuff through joking. So pretending like if something's serious, there's no humor in it. I mean, to me, that's just a crock of shit. Like, that's.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, that.

[James Gunn]

But that is. That. That's probably the number one complaint I get.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's hilarious. Because I actually think you do. Like, there's a great balance to it, which I think is kind of key to this kind of world of, you know, you want your superhero to be, you know, heroic and, like, badass in his moments, but the balance of it is. It's the same thing. Like what. I think it was Daniel Craig that brought that up when he was. He was cast as Bond, and then as the movies evolved, he was. He was making the point that, like, well, he should have. He's more like flaws and these real moments.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Because otherwise, it's just a cool dude walking in every room and you're like, all right, he's cool.

[James Gunn]

That was always a. I mean, that was always the difficulty for me with accessing James Bond. I always loved James Bond, sure. But I never got into the world of James Bond. Like, I did into the world of, say, Star wars or DC Comics or whatever, because he was. It's just a character that's just constantly, you know, everything's pretty good, no flaws. And it was really Craig that made that character more interesting. I mean.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

I mean, it's not just him, but. Yeah. So it was. Yeah, that was. That was the thing for me with James Bond. He was just a little too perfect. There's a couple superhero movies like that, too, that where if the character doesn't have any flaws or depth, I just don't care, you know?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. And I think a lot of times you don't realize that you don't care until you see that you're like, oh, there's just not.

[James Gunn]

There's. What's there to access. I don't know how to relate to this person, quote unquote. Because there's no. There's nothing there behind the. The eyes. It's just this perfect paragon of virtue.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. That doesn't. I know. It doesn't connect with as many people, I don't think.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah. They tended to do that a lot with female characters in the early days of superhero stuff, you know, because they didn't want to make them bad in any way, and they wanted them to be good examples of everything. But I'm like, my men. You know, Star Lord gets to be a jerk. Like, he's a jerk. Rocket raccoon. He's a man. He's a jerk.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

You know, so I, you know, like, you know, I always thought that Nebula and Gamora and the other female characters should have as many flaws as those male characters.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's. I think that's. Yeah, that's. I really hope that. That we do see, though, more comedies come back in theaters.

[James Gunn]

Me too. I mean, I think we will. I do think that will happen. I really do. You know, as long as the theaters don't close from nobody going out there seeing movies. But I think. But I don't think they are. I mean, I think in certain ways, theater culture is booming. We did have quite a few hit movies this year. Yeah. And the experience of going to the movies with things like Minecraft, a movie that a lot of people don't like. But the fact that people made this experience out of it was really cool for me to see. It reminded me of what, you know, I saw the older kids doing when they went to see Rocky Horror Pictures Show.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

As a kid.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. My kids flipped for Minecraft.

[James Gunn]

Did they? They loved it. Yeah. Yeah. My. My. My nephew came home and said, that's my favorite movie of all time. I'm like, your favorite movie of all time? It's like, yeah, he says it about half the movies.

[Bert Kreischer]

He's like, tell that guy he was amazing in it.

[James Gunn]

Okay, I'll let him know.

[Bert Kreischer]

I told him.

[James Gunn]

Who was it?

[Bert Kreischer]

I told Momoa. My son said you were amazing. He's like, good.

[James Gunn]

Did you tell me you thought he sucked?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, I was like, you. I didn't. Wasn't impressed at all.

[James Gunn]

Momo's in next in Supergirl next summer.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, sweet.

[James Gunn]

He plays Lobo.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, he's great, man.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, He's a great guy.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, he's great. I was gonna. I wanted to ask, like, do you. Do you feel. Because it's like, you know, you're in it right now where you. I mean, you. You hit the. I mean, I don't mean, like, it's luck, but, like, it's like the lottery to be filmmaking. You're the head of a studio. The. The first thing I think of when I think of that, I'm like, that's so cool.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Then I think I'm like, oh, that's a lot of pressure. Like, meaning that, like, these franchises mean so much to people like you, you know, like, you want to honor the. The character and their story and this audience that loves it. And then my next thing, I'm like, God damn. It's a lot of work. It feels like it's a lot of work.

[James Gunn]

It's a lot of work. Like, I just. When this job first came up, I was really torn. When it first came up, it came up outside of the context of Peter Safran and I doing it together, and that was like, no way. I don't want to do, you know, Kevin Feige's job. Like, that's just not my thing.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And then it came up, Peter and I doing it together, and I just. I knew that for the next few years, I just would do nothing else but this job. But I also knew that it. It was an opportunity that no one had ever had.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

In terms of being a creative at the head of a studio. So I. I had to say yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And I'm. I'm happy I said yes, but it's. It's been a rough few years because of that, and. And I'm not sure it's my wife's favorite choice that I've made in our lives.

[Bert Kreischer]

I could see that. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

So it's. I think that I really, you know, it was tough, and it was really tough, and I fear. But I did feel a certain amount of relief after Superman came out.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Because that was a rough road, making that movie. That was probably the. The toughest time I ever had making anything from.

[Bert Kreischer]

Even from, like, development, through production, everything.

[James Gunn]

No, really, just in, you know, it was hard because it was so, you know, high pressure.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

But it really wasn't post. It was like I was trying to make a comic book movie. And as much as it sounds strange, I don't feel like I've ever really made a comic book movie. I feel like the Guardians movies were space fantasies, and the Marvel was an asterisk on that. Like, it was really space fantasy first. It was more based on the space stuff that I loved, like Farscape or Star wars or whatever, than anything else. And so with this, I was really taking on a character that people loved that was so beloved and could go a lot of different ways. And so I just. I felt a lot of pressure. And when it came out and it was embraced by, by far the majority of the audience and, you know, did well at the box office, it was a big relief. Well, because now I'm like. I looked at Peter and I remember when, like, the reviews. When the reviews came out and we were on the plane flying to China, so the movie hadn't come out yet. I have no idea what the reviews are going to be like. And I'm playing Balatron, my. On my. My. My little phone as I'm flying to China. Peter Safran is a couple seats behind me, and he goes, the reviews are dropping in two minutes. And I go, oh, my God. Don't. Why'd you tell me that? So I go up and I'm. And I'm playing Balatro, and I'm playing, like, a game for, like, a half an hour, and I'm like, oh, my God, this. This must be it. This must be a nightmare, because Peter hasn't come up and said anything and told me anything, like, oh, this is. This is. This is terrible. This is my brain. This is terrible. Oh, my God. This is the worst thing ever. This is embarrassing. Oh, you know, and. And then finally, I'm like, I'm not gonna go back till I finish this. This game. It was a good game. I finished the game. And then I'm like, you know, having that great willpower. And then I walk back, and I'm like, what's up? And he's like, we're certified fresh. What the hell? Dude, dude, why didn't you tell me that?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

He's like, it just happened. We're certified fresh in a half an hour. And. And I was like. I was really relieved and, like, it wasn't necessary. It was joyful. But it was mostly just this relief of, like, this energy and this drive that I had been holding in my body forever.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Because this was the proof of concept, because now we have all these other projects that are related to Superman. Superman directly, you know, leads into Peacemaker.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Peacemaker directly leads into the next movie in the Superman saga. Superman directly leads into, you know, Supergirl. Totally attached to, you know, all the other things we're doing. And if it wasn't. If it didn't work, it would have been a nightmare. Yeah. And so I was huge, really, hugely relieved. And then I felt like, okay, now I can play. Now I can have fun. I. I'm so excited to do the next movie because I know so much more, what I'm doing with the character, who the character is, who Lex Luthor is. All of this stuff in a way that I didn't. When I started that movie.

[Bert Kreischer]

You got great performances in that.

[James Gunn]

They're. It's a fantastic group of people. I mean, David Corn Swift's just a movie star, and. Yeah, that from the beginning. And Nick Holton is. Is incredible.

[Bert Kreischer]

And so what the movie. The movie was. Is really good, man. It's really good, and it's really fun. And I. I have. I love when people tell me this. This is the rare time that I'll. My wife was like, make sure you tell him. You're like, huh? She's like, make sure you tell him. I don't like any of these movies, these types of movies, and I love this movie. And I'm like, I will definitely tell him.

[James Gunn]

Oh, I love that. I'm sure. I love to hear that. I mean, because that is. And I hear that. I hear that. I mean, I don't want to say I hear that pretty often about my movies. Like, oh, my grandma loves Guardians of the Galaxy. I'm like, really?

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay, cool, great.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, she loves that little Groot. She does Rocket or whatever. And I'm like, that's, that is, that's really what it's about for me. I want to create. And it is, it's so weird. People think I'm, you know, whatever because I go from making something like Peacemaker, which has a bunch of flopping penises in the first episode, to something like, you know, Superman, which is made for everyone.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And, and I don't think of it as like, I'm not holding anything back when I'm making Superman. I'm simply speaking to a different audience than I am speaking to everyone. And to me, a movie or a TV show is a conversation that you're having with the audience, which is one of the ways why people get all worked up about AI. And I think there's, you know, there's good and bad things about AI.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure, yeah.

[James Gunn]

But, but one of the things that people forget is that people, the fact that I'm on this show means that people like, you know, the communication that they have with the artists, the fact that this show is so popular is because the audience likes the communication that they have with you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[James Gunn]

And a movie is that it's a conversation with the audience. It's not a one sided thing. I'm not just putting something out there that has, you know, no connection to anyone else.

[Bert Kreischer]

In order to be a successful business owner, you have to understand the business you're in, understand what your customers want, and have a great way to connect your product with your customers. Business owners are built differently and nothing's better than your business keeping pace. But growth can outpace shipping. ShipStation streamlines it all in one platform with a rate browser that finds the best deals from 200 plus carriers at discounts up to 90%. Upgrade today for a 60 day [e-mail] cave Personally, I have been fascinated to see how this works. These guys have it down. You get one place to see everything that's been ordered, where it's going, what carrier is taking it, it is the best. There's a reason so many successful businesses use ShipStation. Users report scaling three times faster than average. With the time and money you save, you can reinvest right back into your business. ShipStation centralizes label printing, order management, tracking returns and inventory in one easy to use platform. Automate repetitive tasks, reduce errors, and even build custom automations tailored to your workflow. Upgrade to shipping software that does more than keep up with your business. ShipStation propels it forward. Start your 60 day free trial at shipstation.com cave that's shipstation.com/cave.

[Tom Segura]

Let's be honest, life is a lot. It's everything almost. Sometimes you just want to chill, sometimes you need to focus and sometimes you just want to feel good. It's exactly what Via is made for. VI is the go to brand for effect based hemp products that are actually designed to do something. Whether you're looking for deeper sleep, better focus, more balance, or just a gentleman high, you'll find something that fits your vibe with different products and strengths. Via lets you fully customize your experience to fit your needs. Whether you're looking to support your daily wellness routine, enhance focus and clarity, or unwind with a deeper relaxation, Via has got you covered. And the best part, VIA legally ships across the usa, discreet direct to your door, no medical card required and backed by a worry free guarantee. So if you're 21 and over, treat yourself to to 15% off and get a free gift with your first order using our exclusive code bearsiahemp.com plus enjoy free shipping on orders over a hundred dollars. That's V I I A h e m p.com and trust me, I'm on the road. I get the nice light ones for a little bit of a chill during the afternoon and maybe you fall into a sleep, maybe you don't, maybe you relax, maybe you play pickleball, maybe you play a little disc golf. It's awesome. If you're 21 and over, check out the link to Via in our description and use the code bears to receive 15% off plus free shipping on orders over a hundred dollars. And if you're new to Via, get a free gift of your choice. After you purchase, they're going to say hey, where did you hear about us? Please support our show and tell them that we sent you Enhancer every day.

[James Gunn]

With Via and people, people like that. And that's, that's how I feel about Superman versus Peacemaker or whatever. I'm just in one, I'm talking to everybody and in another one I'm saying hey, this is, this is for the adult. Yeah, it's like boy talk at the back.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure. It's a little different when the ladies walk in the room you're like, hey, shoulders back. Yeah, yeah. Do you, do you enjoy the writing process? Like, do you enjoy writing?

[James Gunn]

Somebody asked me this the other day, and, you know, I, I, It's a grind. It's a, It's a grind. But I'd say, yeah, I'd say I do enjoy it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Do you? Because, like, obviously you're writing the, like, so many different things too much.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But so you get an idea cooking. Are you, like, do you go, you know, outline note cards? Like, what. How do you actually approach writing your, your material?

[James Gunn]

It always changes, and that's one of the ways I, I keep it fresh. But the main, you know, usually what happens, like, with a movie is I spend time. I'm usually, like, doing something else is my main thing. So, like, for instance, working on the new script with Lex and Superman, I was, you know, promoting Superman. I'm doing all this other stuff. You know, I'm editing Superman when I started it, you know, and so I don't have the time to fully commit myself.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Because once I start writing the actual script, nothing else exists in my life. And so I'm just writing down ideas, short synopses, like, real simple first act, second act, third act, trying to find the center of what the story is, you know, who the, who the antagonist is, who's the protagonist. You know, just dealing with these different things. And I went through a couple of different things. Like, I wrote a treatment that was very different from what the treatment ended up being that I, you know, gave to Peter Safran. He liked. But I, I read it and I was like, there's something missing. You know, and so I just go through this process of discovery in which the doors are completely open. I never lock in to anything at that point, because locking in at that point is really the, the death of the creative process. Because I've done it before where I lock in on this idea, and then I find that everything else doesn't work so well around that one idea. So I play, play, play, play, play. Then after, you know, time stewing, I feel like I have that thing and then I sit down and I write the treatment. And the treatment is really worked out. It's, you know, like this, the man of Tomorrow treatment was, you know, 65 pages. You know, eventually I put photos in there as reference from the comics and different things, and then I give that to my select group of people and, and then they give, give me notes, and then I take them in the ones that I want and don't take in the ones I Don't. And then I get to writing the. I rewrite the treatment. So it fits.

[Bert Kreischer]

It fits. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And then I start writing the screenplay off of that treatment. And then I. I finish that usually in less than two weeks.

[Bert Kreischer]

Wow. So. But the big thing that helps is that that treatment is so thorough that.

[James Gunn]

The treatment is really thorough. And that doesn't mean that that screenplay that I've written into two weeks is the screenplay. Is the screenplay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[James Gunn]

Because then I take another bit of time rewriting that. And that's real. That's. Once I'm done with that screenplay. That's the fun part. Then I'm going, and I'm improving and making it better, you know, and then I finish that draft of the screenplay, and, you know, I give that. Which I, you know, did with all the DC Studios folks, and then they give me notes on that, which is always the, you know, fun and terrible part of the process. You know, this time, you know, the movie works. But there are things that I'm still doing to improve it. And then I'm going to, you know, now I'm finishing up the. The next draft of that.

[Bert Kreischer]

Wow. I wonder if. Because I was thinking about this, because I've just come off of two productions.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you always. Before you are actually, like, producing. When you hear budgets, they just kind of. You just go like, oh, like, that's a lot of money.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But when you're doing productions, the one thing that you think of, when you think of big budgets, you. You think about time. Right? Like, so, like, I just came off of this feature that we shot. We did. We had 25 shooting days.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you realize that everything.

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Every day is like, this is wildly important.

[James Gunn]

That's. Oh, it's so hard.

[Bert Kreischer]

And there's, like, nothing you can do. Like, we just got to get this shit. And so when I think about, like, big budgets, I always go like, now when I watch everything, I'm like, I wonder how many days they had. Like, that's how I watch everything. So I was watching Superman. I was like, God, I wonder how much time they had to do this.

[James Gunn]

Well, I'll tell you, I. You know, it seems like we have a lot of time. I think we shoot in, like, we usually do 91 days. And then we, you know, something like 90, 91 days. And then we set aside a few days for pickups. Because I always find you have to. That you have little things that you want to, you know, screw a little tighter, a little looser. And so that's how much Time we have. But the thing that's different about me is I don't have second unit.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh.

[James Gunn]

So I really. I shoot all of everything.

[Bert Kreischer]

Everything.

[James Gunn]

And every movie I go, I got to have some second unit this time. And. Because I really have a guy, Wayne Daglish, who is my stunt coordinator, who I really trust and, like. And then I keep stealing second unit from him. Yeah, Wayne, this time it's going to be different. I swear, man. So, you know, but it's. Yeah, but I really. So it is 91 days. Whereas, you know, you take a movie, like a recent DC movie before we were involved was like, I think they shot for 91 days, but then there was like 60 days of second unit.

[Bert Kreischer]

God, really?

[James Gunn]

Yes. I don't know how you afford to.

[Bert Kreischer]

Do it, because do those 90 or 91 take into account, like, just whatever going wrong? Like, in other words, you have a big set piece and there's a lot of action or whatever. And. And that day, just inevitably in production, things like, does it take into account that we might have to do it?

[James Gunn]

Without a doubt. So the guy who does all my scheduling is Lars Winter. He's been my AD for many years, and now he is the head of production at dc.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[James Gunn]

And now he produces, you know, our movement, our movies with me and Peter and Lars. You know, he's been making, you know, he did, you know, Avengers and all. He was an AD on all the biggest movies ever. Not all of them, but many of.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[James Gunn]

And he. He really knows what goes wrong and what doesn't. But also, over the years, he's learned what I do differently, which is. Which is a lot. So, for instance, you know, I was way under budget on every movie I made up until Guardians 3 was the only one I wasn't. But I was under budget on. On Superman too.

[Bert Kreischer]

Really?

[James Gunn]

Yeah. And. And it's like I just. Because I'm. I really care about it. I started making movies for, like, 250 grand. Yeah. So I know what it. What, you know, what it means. I don't like waste, and I don't like keeping the crew there for endless hours. So we say, you know, we shoot, you know, whatever, 12 hour days, and then we're done. Like, I don't ever, you know, if I have overtime, maybe once a whole shoot, we go two hours into overtime. Like, but other than that, I never go. I rarely ever go, you know, more than 10, 15 minutes into, you know, over the schedule.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

So, like, those kinds of things are things you learn about a filmmaker. And that is not the norm. And so they have learned over the years that when I have a schedule, I usually stick to that schedule pretty closely.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure. They love that.

[James Gunn]

They can count on it. Yeah. And. And I have, you know, vfx, you know, supervisor who I've worked with on many movies now, he tells me the amount of shots I have. I say, in this sequence we'll need less, or in this sequence, we'll need way more. Steph, you got to figure that out, because this is how many shots they are. I storyboard, you know, I draw every single frame of the movie so I know what the shots are, which I change, but not enough that it's going to make everything crazily different. And so. Yeah, and so sometimes you always go over on some sequences and under on other sequences. And Lars has learned that over. Over the years.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, that's. That's fascinating. I. I also think about too, like, how good special effects are now. You know, like when you watch things like I was watching Superman and you're like this. It's. It's. You can't believe what you're seeing.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And then I feel like there's like a. I was going like, back when's the cutoff of like, this is buy up. Like, you buy it still. And I feel like the one where I'm like, oh, it's still like. Because everything, you know, every year it gets like a little better. I feel like Minority Report, you go like, this is now. It's like 20 years old or something.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But it still looks good. Like, the effects look good.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And if you start going further back from that, you're like, this is.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, well, that's. I mean, I think that's the reason why superhero movies. People are like, oh, why did superhero movies all become the rage?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And it's. It's simply visual effects. I mean. Yeah, Iron man came out and that was like the first B list superhero that came out. That was a box office.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

The reason is, is because the visual. I mean, the movie was really good.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. But.

[James Gunn]

But the visual effects were also believable. And you know, you think about the stuff that we saw in the 80s and 90s with superheroes, and it was.

[Bert Kreischer]

Like, you're like, I can't.

[James Gunn]

Like ridiculous looking. You can't believe it. You can't fully put yourself into that character.

[Bert Kreischer]

There's one shot, and this is not a superhero movie. But if you watch the Fugitive.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Which is a great movie.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And that. That style movie is also not really done anymore. That's like a. It's almost like a proceed procedural feature, you know, and it's really. It's really good. Harrison Ford jumps off a train.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's just one shot and you're like, what the is that?

[James Gunn]

What was it?

[Bert Kreischer]

Because it's like the green screen is so. It looks like. It looks like a green screen from 20 years prior. It's like an insert. And you're like, what is that? And it's so goofy when he jumps off of it. Especially the, like, the moving shots, you know, this is like. This is a still, I think, but it is. It's really bad when you're watching it. You're like, this is really bad.

[James Gunn]

Oh, wow.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I, I. Every time I've. If that movie's on, it's like one of those movies that you'll just pick up if it's on. You're like, yeah, I'll watch this for a while.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

That scene comes. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't even.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, that's a great meme that people should use under post about movies where they don't like the visual effect.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's really bad, dude. It's really.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, I still, I. You know, there are things that I'm really impressed with by and then things I think that we can improve a lot. I have a really, really an eye with visual effects that's.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, yours has to be, like, hard, like, so developed. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

I mean, like, it never looks real to me. So the one thing I will say that, you know, in Superman, the things that I'm really proud of. There's some work by frame store who did crypto in. In. In. In the early scenes and in some later scenes too. And who did the Superman robots when they weren't practical? And it's very hard to tell that it's not real.

[Bert Kreischer]

Really?

[James Gunn]

I think so, yeah. I mean, it's like, you know that stuff with Krypto in the snow?

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, even, like. I mean, I have no idea how any of this shit's done, but, like, when. Who's the Spanish actress in Superman? That's one of Lex's, like, bad guys.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Gab, like, the way, like, her. The effects of, like, her hands turning into shit and, like, morphing.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I mean, you watch that and you're like, I don't know how this is happening, but it's so believable.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's so, like, visually impressive.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. I'll get it better still.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, I'm sure you will.

[James Gunn]

Still. I Mean, there's still. There she is.

[Bert Kreischer]

There she is.

[James Gunn]

She's the best. She's about the best person in the world, by the way. She is. She fulfilled. You know, her and Nicole both, you know, are a testament to the fact that. I don't know why, but the best villains are the nicest people.

[Bert Kreischer]

I believe that, you know, also the best. I was explaining to people on the set about this actor playing a. He's dumb, right? The. The character's dumb. I'm like, you get that that guy's smart, right? And these people, friends of mine, they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, you can't play dumb if you're dumb.

[James Gunn]

You don't.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're too fucking dumb to. To do it. Like, you have to know.

[James Gunn]

I'm instantly going to. I got. There's got to be somebody I know that was good at playing dumb.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, playing dumb is. Takes intelligence, you know, like, to. To actually have it read. Well, yeah, you know that we were talking about pickups. Do you. Do you know that. Have you heard that James Cameron, Matt Damon story? Do you know that?

[James Gunn]

No, it's really.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's kind of fascinating. So I heard Matt Damon tell this story where he got a call from James Cameron and he goes, hey, I'm. I'm doing this new movie, Avatar. And he tells. He goes, I don't need a movie star, okay? Like, he tells him, I don't need. It doesn't need a star.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But I'd like to offer you the lead because I just think you would be great in this role, you know, and, like, the movie will work without a star, but I'm give. I would offer it to you and I'll give you 10% of the revenue. Right? And Matt Damon tells him. He's like, well, like, I really appreciate that technically I'm available, but we're going to be having just wrapped the Last Born, like one of the Bourne trilogy or whatever franchise movies. And he goes, and we always do pickups. And so I don't want to put that production in a bind by signing on to do yours and knowing. I just know we're going to have, like, special because, you know, this is crazy action. He's like, we always have, like, quite a few pickup stuff, so I just don't think I'll be available. And so James told him, well, I really respect that you are showing your production that. And that's fine. I'll just go. And Damon goes, it would have been about 350 million that I would have made. I was like, God damn, that's a crazy amount of money.

[James Gunn]

I wonder what James Cameron Meant by 10%. That's my interest. Because there's no way that's.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's his story. I don't know, but I'm like, that's.

[James Gunn]

I'm going to have to ask him about that next time I see him. I don't. I.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's a. That's a pretty. I mean, pretty sweet offer, though, right?

[James Gunn]

If it's. Yeah, I just. I. I'm not gonna say I doubt the story.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, well.

[James Gunn]

But Cameron's not stupid.

[Bert Kreischer]

Please fill me in if you have the answer.

[James Gunn]

I will. I will let you know. I'll let you know. But I do believe that he was offered the role and was offered a great amount of money that he would have made off of it, you know, much more than he made off. But listen, Born Ultimatum is one of the best action movies of all time. So there you go.

[Bert Kreischer]

The Bourne stuff is so fun, dude.

[James Gunn]

And also, you know what? He can still pay his bills. He's fine.

[Bert Kreischer]

He's doing just fine. Yeah, I've seen.

[James Gunn]

I know how much he made off of one of his last movies.

[Bert Kreischer]

So it was. Okay.

[James Gunn]

I'll tell you afterwards. Okay, cool, cool.

[Bert Kreischer]

Do you. How much time do you guys spend, like, as the, you know, the heads of this, planning out where D.C. goes next? Like, is that a big. Yeah, like, it would be a big.

[James Gunn]

It is a big thing. Well, I mean, one of the things that we did was when we first took over, I had written up what. God, what point was what. But I had written up, like, what the first shows were supposed to be and then. But where the story eventually went. And so then we met with David Zaslav, who's one who hired us. We told him what the basic plan was. He was into that. We got hired. He was the only one that knew that. And then we told Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy, and they were into it, and Casey Boyce, who's out of hbo. Max. So we had a basic plan, but then I hired a group of writers who I really respected, who came in and then. And we kind of worked out the whole story. Now, some things have changed since then for various reasons, but the basic thrust of the big story is the same. That is what started in Superman, continues in Peacemaker, goes to the next Superman movie, and then can we continue from the movie after that? And then after that? So there was always. There's this big. The bigger plan that we. We came up with it Feels like.

[Bert Kreischer]

It'S got to be like a. I mean, with everything you have and just the scale, it's like you have to think in terms like decade. Right. Like 10 years.

[James Gunn]

It's like a decade. Yeah. And maybe a little less, but. Yeah, but like, it's. It's very loose too. You. I want to be. You have to be careful because there were certain projects that were a part of that plan that like. Because my other rule is that I'm not going to greenlight anything without having a screenplay that I love. And there were other things that just didn't. Haven't worked yet. And so there's. You got to be, you know, able to have the big picture in mind, but then also be willing and be able to shift anytime you need to.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

So the pinpoints are the same, but some of the specifics have changed.

[Bert Kreischer]

I have a heavy hitting question for you.

[James Gunn]

You got it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Will we ever get a blue, gray, black Batman?

[James Gunn]

Is that what you want?

[Bert Kreischer]

It's just what everybody wants.

[James Gunn]

I don't. It's not everybody.

[Bert Kreischer]

No, it's not everybody.

[James Gunn]

It's not everybody because I have people, I have. I have somebody saying, please give us this Batman. And then they put a picture of the blue gray Batman on threads or whatever. And then somebody else says, you know, you're a piece of.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Gunn]

I'm like, he's a piece of. Because he likes.

[Bert Kreischer]

He likes.

[James Gunn]

You have a pretty hard. That's the thing. There is a. There's a religious aspect to so much of this stuff that.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

Very uncomfortable because, you know, should Batman have white eyes? That's a big subjective conversation.

[Bert Kreischer]

Is like, that's a big combo. Oh, yeah.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. And it's like, guys, like, really. That's really what matters. But that those are the things I care about. Is utility belt be yellow? Should he have the yellow crest around the bat? You know, all of that sort of stuff. And none of those things are what's most important to me.

[Bert Kreischer]

No.

[James Gunn]

What matters is like the character, the story. And I think that we have a really, really good story now for what's happening with. With Bat Dude.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'm so stoked.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

That was like, for me, I think, age wise, like I. Introduction to super. So of course I saw the Christopher Reeve Superman as a kid.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you're. And you're mesmerized. Right. By his flying super. It's the whole thing. But the funny thing was Batman. The Batman. The Michael Keaton Batman.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

That movie. I realized, like, in retrospect, it made me feel Like, I had adult taste. Do you know what I mean? Like, as a kid, you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm a fucking grown up.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, this shit.

[Bert Kreischer]

I like this guy who's this Jack Nicholson? He's good.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you know, you're like, you're like, oh, she's hot. Yeah, I like her.

[James Gunn]

I like her. Yeah. I like, I like adult women.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, I like adult women. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Michael Keaton was awesome in it. Like that introduction to that world. And I, I watched it recently and it definitely, it feels like a little more like, I wouldn't want to say cartoonish, but, you know, it's such a, it's, it is a separate, like the tone in my memory is not the tone of the film.

[James Gunn]

I, I, I totally understand what you're.

[Bert Kreischer]

Saying, but I was like, that was like, I was like, so in where I was like, I.

[James Gunn]

Now you like Batman before that or was that what got you into Batman?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, I, I did like Batman before that and I even, because, you know, as a kid they were playing even the old Adam West.

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

So, like, you know, so you. I was like, oh, Batman's cool. Batman. I was like, Batman Robin. I thought it was like, cool character. I had some comic books, but, you know, that movie for me, I was like, I didn't realize this is, I think I forget what year this is.

[James Gunn]

But 89 was the first Bat.

[Bert Kreischer]

So that, that's perfect because I'm 10. So if you're 10 years old, you go, oh, this is a genre of film. Like, I don't even know this is a thing. Really.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And that it just catapulted into always wanting to see Batman's because, like, that was, that set the bar for me of like, this is awesome.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. That's what I think. That's one of the, the fun things about Batman, though, is that there are so many expressions of Batman that are cool.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

And different ways to access that character is one of the ways in which he's so iconic. So I don't think it's a matter of the blue and the gray or the black Batman. I think both those things are really cool. I like the detective Batman, but I also really like the fighter Batman. That's just the brute.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's, yeah.

[James Gunn]

You know, fighting. I like the, you know, I like the, I like the silly, you know, 50s Silver Age Batman with bat mite. And that's kind of closer to what the original Batman TV show was like. I like all of these different, you know, versions of Batman But I will say in the same way, that was your experience with Batman. That was my experience with Batman 2 as a kid. Because I'm older than you, reading the. The. The sort of early 70s Neil Adams Batman comics that were much darker and grittier. And I was like, oh, I like this Batman. You know, I had seen, like, the sillier Batman. I'd seen the sillier Batman on tv and I'm like, oh, this is gritty, cool Batman. And that was the thing that made me feel more like, if not an adult, at least a teenager.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Gunn]

Eight or nine years old.

[Bert Kreischer]

It makes you feel like a little more grown up.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. And I really liked that about. I really still like that. That version of. I like that. That version of Batman that was sort of a Batman that we've never seen. There it is right there. See that one on the upper left corner? That's the one that.

[Bert Kreischer]

When they're.

[James Gunn]

That. That's it, man. That was my favorite story. That was in a compilation of Batman comics that I read. And I just thought it was the greatest ever. And it was Batman, supernatural. Batman, too, which is something we've never seen Batman in, like, a sort of supernatural environment.

[Bert Kreischer]

Were you, like, a huge consumer of, like, were you, like, voracious?

[James Gunn]

It was my life.

[Bert Kreischer]

It was your life.

[James Gunn]

It was my life.

[Bert Kreischer]

So this is, like, destiny is what it feels like, kind of.

[James Gunn]

Well, I think a lot of people had that is their life that are not the head of dc.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's true. But it's cool that that the person who is the head does come from that DNA.

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I. I spent so much of my childhood skipping school, staying home and drawing comics. And the main thing. One of the main things I drew were these characters in comics with Batman. So I drew, like, DC Comics and I had, you know, all my own characters who I like to have fighting with, teaming up with Batman.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's so cool, dude. When you. But I'm a big Guardians fan. I mean, I think obviously a lot of, like, that's the thing where you're like, this is like, such a fun ride.

[James Gunn]

Thanks.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you're a big Star wars fan, too, right? So when you're not as big as.

[James Gunn]

I am a comic book fan.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[James Gunn]

But Star wars was revolutionary for me. When the first one came out, like, it really opened me up.

[Bert Kreischer]

I just. And I, you know, for the last. My kids are nine and seven, two boys. And for the last several years.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Every, you know, you go like, hey, when you check this out, I would bring up Star Wars. They're like, we don't want to see that shit. I was like, what? And I was always like, no. They're like, no. Like, these were always like, I don't want to see it. And I was. I would try, and they would just. And then this summer, I was like, you guys want to watch Star Wars? And they were like, yeah, okay. And I sat them down, and we. We went through New Hope Empire.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Jedi. And then we went to whatever.

[James Gunn]

The first Phantom Menace.

[Bert Kreischer]

Phantom Menace and then Attack of the funny thing was, they watched those first three. Locked In. Yeah, Locked In. They were like, who's this guy? And I'm like, that's Darth Vader. What kind of fucking name is that? I'm like, it says, guy lives in outer space. I don't know. Like, they were, like, questioning everything, but then, like, really into the dark side and good. Like, you realize, like, the lessons of the movie, like, it really impact.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, it's really. Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And then we got to the newer ones, and I couldn't keep them in their seats. Like, they would just get up and walk around.

[James Gunn]

They're slower movies.

[Bert Kreischer]

They're slower movies.

[James Gunn]

I mean, Phantom Menace in particular is much slower.

[Bert Kreischer]

Much slower. But those first three, they really got into it.

[James Gunn]

But I'm wondering, did they see Rogue One?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, we didn't make it up to Rogue One yet.

[James Gunn]

They should see that.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'll try to get.

[James Gunn]

I think Rogue One is great.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's great.

[James Gunn]

It's, like, up there with my favorites.

[Bert Kreischer]

Rogue One is awesome. Yeah. When you're making. Or, you know, feeling that. I know that George Lucas was influenced, like, big time. I think Kurosawa, but he always references Joseph Campbell. Mythology. Do you, like, think of mythology and everything as well?

[James Gunn]

I mean, I think of Joseph Campbell because my. My background is I have a MFA in writing with. In prose writing. And. And I've always. I've studied all of that. You know, the Hero's Journey and, you know, those books made a big difference to me as a writer. You know, kind of finding things that are innate in storytelling, no matter what. But, yeah, I'm into all that stuff. But I also think also got to be open for whatever is.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Not that.

[Bert Kreischer]

And when you. I was. Because it's like a space fantasy. Guardians, I'm saying. Right. Like, it's that whole world. Do you have to, like, entertain the idea of, like, is this too much like. Like, they're not the same movie at all. But does that enter your mind when you're Making something that, like, this is so.

[James Gunn]

No, because, like, when I started working on one of the things that inspired me to do Guardians, when he first asked me, you know, when they first asked me if I was interested, I wasn't certain at first. And the first thing that sort of snapped in was Rocket Story. And the second thing that snapped in was this could be Star wars for kids, to allow kids to feel like I felt when I saw Star wars, but it's many years later. And that means that that voice is much different than what it was when Star wars came out. So it always felt innately different from Star wars while having the same impact. Okay. You know, the same impression.

[Bert Kreischer]

You want to want people to have an emotional connection.

[James Gunn]

I want them to have that feeling of magic. I just, you know, for me, it was like. I remember being a kid when the first Star wars came out. I was. I was. Had never seen a PG rated movie before, and I was in the grocery store and I saw People magazine with like C3PO and, and Chewbacca on it, and I was like, oh, my God, I want to inject that into my brain.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And so that was that excitement. And I knew that I could do that with kids with Rocket and Groot.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. I mean, they're. Yeah, you connect.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Like, like, and the humor is there. Like, you get huge laughs. And like, it's. It's so cool, man. How did, like, when they pitch you this or that this is presented to you, is it that you connected to those characters and that's what drew your interest?

[James Gunn]

They, they, they had already announced. Marvel had already announced that they were doing Guardians of the Galaxy, and they had shown an image. They had announced it at Comic Con already, and they had shown an image that one of their concept artists had drawn of. Of the Guardians. And. And so that's what they pitched to me. And so I went. You know, I honestly, at first, I was like, I mean, first of all, I didn't really think I was being taken that seriously. I didn't know how seriously they were taking me because my movie before that had cost $2 million, but I was driving. But my first reaction was honestly, like, I don't know about this. Like, it seems kind of like Bugs Bunny in the middle of Star wars. And I just don't know about it. Like, I just, I don't, you know, I don't want to write the first Marvel bomb, which is what every article said before the movie came out. And I was like, I just don't know. But then it went Once I said, okay, we'll take it. Let's just, like, forget all those voices for a second. I'm like, if Rocket was real, this goes back to what we're talking about initially. If Rocket was real, what would he be? And I realized he would just be the saddest creature in the universe and that he was this innocent little animal that was turned into something he shouldn't be, and that that was this incredibly melancholy center of what otherwise would seem like this kind of peppy, happy franchise. Which is what I think the whole trilogy is about. That moment and Rocket's journey through those three movies. Who to me, was always the protagonist of those three movies, and he was the one I related to. That's it. That's the original piece of art. So you see how it's like, Groot looks like a skeleton guy.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

I don't know what's going on with Rocket. Gamora doesn't even look like they totally thought her out.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

But Star Lord.

[Bert Kreischer]

And this is what you're. This is the first thing they present.

[James Gunn]

That's what they showed to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. I mean, I just thought. I mean, that's a really cool piece of art, but it does look a little bit like something on a cereal box. Rocket.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

So I. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's what started out. But once I came upon that, then I was off to the races. It was like I couldn't stop. I was crazy. And. And then I. I just, you know, went nuts.

[Bert Kreischer]

What do you. Do you have. Do you do anything for fun? Because I don't feel like you have any time.

[James Gunn]

Well, I talked earlier about. I played Balatro on my phone.

[Bert Kreischer]

I remember that when I'm flights to China.

[James Gunn]

I have a group of guys who I've been friends with for 20 years. Yeah. And. And when I'm in LA, we meet once a week.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's cool.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. I. One of them I've been friends with for. For longer. Since 95. He's. He's been my best friend. He's in most of my movies. Stevie Blackheart.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, yeah.

[James Gunn]

And, you know, I smoke cigars.

[Bert Kreischer]

Nice. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

You smoke cigars?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Yeah. So. Yeah, So I do some things. I. I really. I don't. I have a hard time getting joy from anything that doesn't work.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Oh, yeah. I mean, so, I mean, I relate. Yeah, that's, that's, that's. It's, it's a. It's a problem in my Life.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

You know, I'm trying to figure out ways that I can have fun doing other things. I mean, I take my dogs for a walk once a day. That's fun. Yeah, sure, I guess. I mean, it's. It's calming.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, I get that. I don't think most people are like, you know what I do for fun? I walk my dog.

[James Gunn]

My dog.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. But I get it.

[James Gunn]

On my property in. In Atlanta.

[Bert Kreischer]

How do you feel? Okay, I got to ask these couple of things. How do you avoid. Because this. I think this happens to people who, you know, achieve great success, especially in comedy, where then they go, I'm gonna take myself real seriously now. Do you know what I mean? Like, we. I mean, I'm not gonna name. There's countless examples.

[James Gunn]

Name some.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'll tell you after we talk about Matt Damon's money. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, like, you're in. In. Because you're obviously, like, a very talented filmmaker, but there's also. Comedy is a big part of what you're doing. There's comedy in. In everything that I've watched. And I'm like, yeah, how do you. Do you. You know, I mean, do you need to be reminded, or do you think it's just innately in you to not. It doesn't seem like you take yourself and your material too serious. Like, you still honor it. Your story still is.

[James Gunn]

I mean, I honestly, like, I want to say. I want to sit here, Tom, and look good to you and say. Say, oh, I don't take it seriously.

[Bert Kreischer]

I know you take the work, but.

[James Gunn]

I take it so seriously. I mean, I take the characters so seriously. Like, I really. I believe in the characters. I cry every time I. You know, like, yeah, there's a, you know. You know, episode six of. Of. Of Peacemakers coming out soon. There's a scene in that that I cry every single time I see this. I get moved in the first episode of Peacemaker when I see, you know, so there's stuff in there I take really serious. Yeah, Superman. I. It's. There's a lighter touch to it, but I take the characters really seriously. You know, I really. I love those characters, you know, So I do take it seriously. I just.

[Bert Kreischer]

I guess I meant, like, you don't take. You don't take yourself and what you're doing so seriously that you.

[James Gunn]

I don't give a shit about being perceived as a serious film. There we go. I mean. I mean, if I had my druthers, would it be like, oh, yeah, like that. You know, they can people like me, like, in the same way they like some serious guy? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But, like, it's just I. I'm here to play and make money. Like, that's. Those are the two things that I like.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

You know, and so it's like, I'm just, you know, trying to. To. To create stories that people can become involved in.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And. And create big stories and miss modern myths. That excites me so much. But I don't care so much about being a filmmaker, frankly. And you know what? I'm not. I'm not the same kind of like, you know, I talked to my friend Edgar.

[Tom Segura]

Right.

[James Gunn]

I love Edgar. He's a total filmmaker. He watches so many movies. But I love comics. I love TV shows. I love movies. I love storytelling. I am ultimately married to storytelling, not to cinema.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

You know, as much as I love cinema, and it's probably my biggest love of all of those things I love mostly my. My mistress is. Is the craft of storytelling.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. I see. Did you watch this? The limited series, Ripley?

[James Gunn]

No.

[Bert Kreischer]

You've never seen it?

[James Gunn]

Dude, I'm missing out.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

I think. Honestly, I think it's a master class in storytelling.

[James Gunn]

Okay, cool.

[Bert Kreischer]

And it's. It's one of the best things I've ever seen.

[James Gunn]

Okay, cool.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I. I remember that I, like, I was a big fan of the feature the Talented Mr. Ripley.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, me too.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I was like, oh, it's a beautiful film. I mean, it's just great, fun movie. And when I. I heard there's a limited series, I was like, that's so dumb.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I went in.

[James Gunn]

That guy's a really good actor. That guy that plays Andrew Scott. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But as, like, just. I only say this because you. You were like, you know, storytelling. This is like. It's, you know, to me, when I. When I'm watching something, if you can tell some story, part of the story is just visual storytelling. Like, you don't even have dialogue.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you actually are following the story. This series does that so unbelievably well. It's. It's just. I mean, it's beautifully shot, the performances are incredible, but it feels like masterclass storytelling.

[James Gunn]

It's in black and white.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's all in black and white. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable.

[James Gunn]

They should colorize it.

[Bert Kreischer]

They could do that. Yeah. We could send them a note. I know a couple people there.

[James Gunn]

You send them a note.

[Bert Kreischer]

I have Ted Sarandos. His number.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, let's. Let's just Give him a quick tag.

[Bert Kreischer]

Hey, man. Yeah, update this. My last. I got people like it more about. About casting, because this is, like, a fascinating process. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Like, you know, I. When. When something works really well, you kind of just go like. Yeah. It usually stands out when it doesn't work, where you're like, this is fucking weird. Yeah, but this cast. But, like, for instance, Peacemaker has. You have, I think, perfect casting.

[James Gunn]

You know, we replaced one of the guys. He died first season. The character that played Vigilante.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Was played by another actor that we. I would. Please don't show the other actor.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay, we can cut. We can cut stuff out.

[James Gunn]

But Freddie Stroma, who. Who plays Vigilante, we had shot five and a half episodes of the first season with another actor, and I decided it wasn't working, and. And we. We. We hired Freddy to. And I had to reshoot all the stuff with him.

[Bert Kreischer]

That seems like a tough decision.

[James Gunn]

It was a tough. It was tough to. It was tough to. To do. But luckily we were, again, very under budget. We still ended up really under budget, so we were able. We were able to afford to do it. I did the same thing in the second season with another character, but it was.

[Bert Kreischer]

When you.

[James Gunn]

I just. I mean, I. You know, if something's not working, you know, do you do.

[Bert Kreischer]

When. When you first sense it's not working, do you obviously, like, do you try, like, oh, we'll try to do something to. To make it work, or is it just like, this just doesn't work well as far as performances go?

[James Gunn]

Well, I mean, I tried to make it work every second. I mean, the very first day we shot a scene, I was like, oh, no. Like, how can I get. You know, and then sometimes you feel like that as a director, and then you get to the cutting stage and you're like, oh, no, it works really well. It cuts together.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Because I'm really intense on set with actors, and sometimes it's, you know, my concerns are just a way to make the scene better, and it doesn't match the reality of, oh, the scene's not working. But in that case, it. We started cutting it together, and I'm like, oh, God, this is everybody's favorite character in the script. And he's my favorite character in the show in a lot of ways. And. And I am. It's just not working.

[Bert Kreischer]

Is that. But that feels like it sounds brutal to have.

[James Gunn]

It's brutal. It's brutal. Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I only learned. I learned last year about the Back.

[James Gunn]

To the Future Yeah, that's.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's.

[James Gunn]

That's brutal, too. Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I didn't know that story, and then.

[James Gunn]

I know, I know. I mean, and. And. And Eric Stoltz, a very good actor.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

He's very, very good actor. And it's like, oh, that sucks. That hangs over that guy's head for the rest of his life.

[Bert Kreischer]

It does. But then, like, when you. Like when you look at it through the lens of what, like, he's a very capable actor. It's not that he's not capable.

[James Gunn]

No. There's a light touch to it that Michael J. Fox brings.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

That he is that character, you know, and. And Stolz is just more of a grounded, heavier actor.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

And it just doesn't match.

[Bert Kreischer]

Doesn't match. But how about this is the one where I'm like, there feels like we were talking about Bond. Right. And so, like, they're always talking about, like, you know, usually actors, they do three or four, and then there's just the whole thing of, like, who's going to get the role next? And it's like, it's a global dialogue, and everyone's like, you know, it should be this. And how come it's not a woman or whatever.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

People. You're like, all right, well, they. And they finally. It's always like, okay, I mean, he's known for banging a bunch of shit, but.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

So have it be like that. I'll watch that movie.

[James Gunn]

I'll watch that movie.

[Bert Kreischer]

But there, you know, I don't know if there's anything that feels like heavier than casting Superman. Right. Like, that feels like that is the big. Like the big choice.

[James Gunn]

Absolutely.

[Bert Kreischer]

So when you're starting, it's harder than.

[James Gunn]

Harder than Batman. It's harder than anything.

[Bert Kreischer]

I feel like it would be.

[James Gunn]

Batman's wearing a mask.

[Bert Kreischer]

Did you.

[James Gunn]

And also people. Batman doesn't have Batman face. Like, the thing about our Supermans is they've all had Superman face face.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

You know, whether it's Brandon Ruth or Henry Cavill or Christopher Reeve or David Corin Sweat, they all have Superman face.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[James Gunn]

And that's a specific sort of thing because people kind of have some idea of what Superman looks like from the comics. So right away, you're incredibly limited. I mean, think about all the different types of people that have played Batman.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, there we have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. With Batman, it's like Keaton.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Ben Affleck.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Christian Bale, George Clooney.

[Bert Kreischer]

They're all over different.

[James Gunn]

Yes. You know, whereas where Superman's more physically specific. So I was terrified going into that casting process, and I said to Peter, I said, if we can't find the right guy, I am not gonna make this movie. There's just no way. I'm not gonna, you know, suddenly be like, you know, Paul Giamatti is a great actor, but I'm not going to cast him as Superman. I would love to see get away with that. Yes, it would be pretty cool to make it with Paul Giamatti, but how long did I do my George Lucas recut with Paul Giamatti?

[Bert Kreischer]

That's the fucking David's role. You break the David.

[James Gunn]

He knows Paul's a good actor.

[Bert Kreischer]

Was it a long time to find David?

[James Gunn]

Here's the funny part.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Second audition.

[Bert Kreischer]

I saw the second.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And were you locked in?

[James Gunn]

I wasn't locked in, but I was like, I think we're gonna be okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Really?

[James Gunn]

If that's my worst choice, that we're gonna be okay. There was, like, a guy who I thought was gonna be really good, who I'm like, go, you know, Ice, you know, sometimes I see these guys in, like, little roles, and I go, oh, he's gonna be great. And so I went to, you know, you know, I asked for his audition, and so that when I got all of the auditions on tape, and I think people can go online and see because I think GQ published David's audition. But when I. When I. When I went and saw that list of all those actors, I watched that guy first, and I'm like, oh, shit. He's not. He's not it. I thought I was so hopeful, and I'm like, well, I really. I also picked out David Corensville because I had seen him in Pearl. Ty west movie. And so I watched his second, and I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is the greatest thing ever. Because he was. He. He handled the humor. He's very serious in Pearl. And so I knew he looked like Superman, and I knew he was a good actor, but I didn't know he could handle the sort of rye.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[James Gunn]

Goofiness of Superman. Really. You know, that's what I like that about Superman. He's got this sort of farm boy charm, goofiness about him that we. We love and find endearing. And that needed to be a part of Superman for me. And so he had that right away. And I was like, oh, this is.

[Bert Kreischer]

When they auditioned for that. Like, they. Is it. Are they doing, like, Clark Kent and super, or is it, like, Just one type of scene. Are they giving you?

[James Gunn]

No, I didn't. I didn't think so much. There it is. So it's. I had rewritten, you know. You know, these scenes are gonna get out, so. Yeah, well, they. This one didn't actually. But you're afraid they're going to. And so I wrote another version just for auditions of the interview scene with Lois that's in the movie.

[Bert Kreischer]

Ah.

[James Gunn]

And that is really where he's being both Clark and Superman at the same time. And he switches back and forth a little bit. And so that's a great scene, by the way. Thank you.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I do feel like you. You kind of surprise yourself as the audience watching that scene.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Because you don't expect yourself to get kind of like. I was like, stop being an asshole to him. Just. Why are you trying to, you know, I mean, like, you're.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, you're.

[Bert Kreischer]

You catch yourself getting involved.

[James Gunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're being a bad girlfriend.

[James Gunn]

It was a fun dude. Did you guys just. Did that already exist?

[Bert Kreischer]

They're on point. How can you not make that now?

[James Gunn]

Yeah, I know.

[Bert Kreischer]

Are you not inspired?

[James Gunn]

I am, you know, I am kind of inspired. I gotta love that guy. I love that actor. Anyway. Yeah, so that was. That was really. So I was very lucky with. With Superman. And the weirder thing is that then I went to look at all the Lois tapes and. And Rachel was a part of that group.

[Bert Kreischer]

And so you're like, oh, this is great.

[James Gunn]

The loesses were unlike Superman. Like, there were a couple of, you know, the. The three actors who ended up screen testing for Superman were the three I could see in the role and there wasn't anybody else. It was a much more slim pickings. Lois's were. There were some good Loises, man. That was a. That was hard. Those actors were, you know. But I screen tested them together and I screen tested Rachel and David together and part of it was their chemistry together.

[Bert Kreischer]

They had good chemistry.

[James Gunn]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, this was so fucking fun, man.

[James Gunn]

I love it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Thank you for coming in.

[James Gunn]

I'm happy to finally be here. Finally. Happy to meet you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Absolutely.

[James Gunn]

I really appreciate it.

[Bert Kreischer]

I appreciate you too, man. Peacemaker airs on HBO Max Thursdays. It drops at 9 Eastern. Currently in a second season. If you have not watched dude jump into season one. It's fantastic. Really entertaining, super funny. Yeah. This is. This is so, so cool, dude. Thank you for coming in. James Gunn, everybody. See you guys next week.

[James Gunn]

Tom and Bert. One goes topless while the other wears a shirt. Tom tells stories and Burts the machine, there's not a chance in hell that they'll keep it clean. Here's what we call two bears, one cave.