NBCUniversal Vice Chair Bonnie Hammer on AI Celebrities, Interactive TV & the Future of Content (#241)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "NBCUniversal Vice Chair Bonnie Hammer on AI Celebrities, Interactive TV & the Future of Content (#241)"

Released on March 18, 2025, "3 Takeaways" hosted by Lynne Thoman features an insightful conversation with Bonnie Hammer, former Vice Chairman of NBCUniversal. Hammer shares her extensive experience in the media and entertainment industry, delving into the evolution of content creation, the impact of digital technologies, and the future landscape shaped by artificial intelligence and interactive media.

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1. The Dominance of TV Shows Over Movies

Popularity and Accessibility of TV Series

Bonnie Hammer begins by addressing the surprising statistic that TV shows and series account for approximately 75% of viewing compared to movies. She explains that the accessibility of TV shows—being easily watchable at home, on planes, or anywhere thanks to technological advancements—contributes significantly to their popularity.

“One of the reasons TV shows are more popular are they simply more accessible. That people can be home, they could be on a plane, they could be anywhere.” [00:44]

Shaping Content Beyond Algorithms

Hammer emphasizes that while algorithms play a role in content recommendation, the essence of successful TV shows lies in strong character development and substantive storytelling. She underscores that regardless of the medium—broadcast, cable, or streaming—the cornerstone is always great content.

“It's about character, it's about substance. It's all about content. That's what people need and want to see.” [02:15]

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2. Content Creation Strategies: Big vs. Small

Big Blockbusters vs. Streaming Series

Hammer contrasts the strategies between blockbuster movies and streaming series. Blockbusters are described as fewer in number but receive substantial investment to ensure high production value, aimed at global box office success. In contrast, streaming services adopt a "more, less" approach, producing a larger number of series with smaller budgets.

“For blockbusters, I do believe it's fewer, bigger, better spend on fewer entities, but do them well and do them big. I think for television, for streamers... it's trying it out as a six, eight or 10 episode entity, not spending as much as you would have years ago.” [07:49]

Quality vs. Quantity in Content Production

Hammer expresses concern over the current trend of producing more series with reduced budgets, fearing it might undermine the quality of content. She reminisces about the days when long-running series thrived, highlighting the importance of sustained investment in successful shows.

“Why should people tune in as opposed to have fewer, greater series that you're almost back on a schedule. You're definitely going to tune in when that show comes on because it's quality as opposed to just feels like another show.” [16:52]

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3. The Role of Digital Technology and Social Media

Impact on Talent and Celebrity Culture

The conversation shifts to the influence of digital technology and social media on the entertainment industry. Hammer acknowledges that while social media can amplify a star's presence and create opportunities, it also poses risks, including the potential to damage reputations.

“It can help make stars, but could also help break stars. I think it's a double edged sword depending on how it's being used.” [10:30]

Concerns Over Digital Addiction and Credibility

Hammer voices her concerns regarding the younger generation's interaction with digital media, highlighting issues like addiction and the erosion of credibility. She advocates for responsible use of digital tools to harness their positive aspects while mitigating negative impacts.

“I worry about it for the younger generation and their addiction to it.” [09:23]

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4. Artificial Intelligence in Content Creation

AI as a Content Creator: Opportunities and Risks

Bonnie Hammer explores the burgeoning role of AI in content creation, recognizing its potential to assist in research, character development, and writing. However, she also warns of the dangers if AI-generated content is not properly regulated, stressing the importance of maintaining human creativity and authenticity.

“I think it has some interesting upsides and some scary downsides. As an aid, a support... but I think that if it is exclusive and trusted and not double and triple checked, it's extremely dangerous.” [11:28]

Ethical Concerns and Job Displacement

Hammer expresses deep concerns about AI-generated celebrities and the ethical implications of using AI to replace human talent. She fears it could lead to significant job losses and legal challenges within the industry.

“It truly worries me because... it will take away jobs. It's illegal. It is already being used in illegal ways.” [17:48]

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5. Interactive and Immersive Experiences

Potential of Virtual Reality and Interactive Media

The discussion moves to the future of interactive and immersive media experiences. Hammer shares her enthusiasm for the possibilities of virtual reality in storytelling but also cautions against its potential to replace human interaction.

“I love the potential. It's been around for a long time... But if it gets in the way of human beings having live interaction with other people, we're going to have problems.” [13:27]

Viewer Influence on Content

Hammer expresses reservations about viewer influence on content in real-time. She is uncertain about how allowing audiences to affect the narrative could impact the integrity of the storytelling process.

“As someone who's an old media type... it frightens me a bit.” [14:39]

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6. The Future of Media and Entertainment

Embracing Change While Upholding Quality

Hammer concludes by emphasizing the inevitability of change in the media landscape and the constant evolution of content distribution. She reiterates that despite these changes, the fundamental requirement remains the creation of high-quality, relatable content.

“The only thing that will count at the end of the game is great content. So embrace that change, because it's the only thing you got.” [20:05]

Encouragement for Creativity Across Generations

She inspires the next generation of creators to harness their creativity, regardless of age or experience, and to strive for excellence in their content endeavors.

“Creativity is creativity and not to be afraid to use it and try to move into whatever media world you want.” [21:04]

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Key Takeaways from Bonnie Hammer

1. Great Content is Paramount: Regardless of the medium—be it box office blockbusters or streaming series—the success of media hinges on creating compelling, relatable, and high-quality content.

2. Embrace Creativity Without Fear: Innovation and creativity should be encouraged across all ages and stages, fostering a dynamic and diverse media landscape.

3. Attention to Detail is Crucial: In the pursuit of excellence, every aspect of content creation must be meticulously crafted, leaving no stone unturned in the quest for outstanding media products.

“The only thing that really counts is great content... Creativity is creativity... Nothing is too small to think about or worry about for great product.” [21:04]

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Conclusion

Bonnie Hammer's insights offer a comprehensive view of the current and future state of the media and entertainment industry. Her emphasis on quality content, cautious approach to emerging technologies, and encouragement for creative exploration provide valuable guidance for industry professionals and enthusiasts alike.

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This summary captures the essence of Bonnie Hammer's discussion on the "3 Takeaways" podcast, highlighting her perspectives on TV's dominance, content creation strategies, the impact of digital technology, the role of AI, and the future of interactive media.

Transcript

[Lynne Thoman]

Media will change in ways that we can now only begin to imagine. With the possibilities of immersive, personalized and interactive entertainment, as well as AI generated celebrities. What does this future look like?

[Bonnie Hammer]

Hi, everyone, I'm Lynne Thoman, and this is three Takeaways. On three Takeaways, I talk with some of the world's best thinkers, business leaders, writers, politicians, newsmakers and scientists. Each episode ends with three key takeaways to help us understand the world and maybe even ourselves a little better.

[Lynne Thoman]

Today, I'm excited to be joined by Bonnie Hammer. Bonnie was Vice Chairman, NBCUniversal from 2020 to 2024. As someone who rose from an entry level production assistant job whose chief charge was a dog, to vice chairman at NBCUniversal, Bonnie Hammer knows all facets of the media and entertainment business. She was named vice chairman of NBCUniversal in 2020, and she also led the creation of Peacock, NBC's streaming service. She has just published a new book, 15 Lies. I'm excited to find out from her what the future of media and entertainment looks like. Welcome, Bon, and thanks so much for joining three Takeaways today.

[Bonnie Hammer]

Hi, Lyn. I'm delighted to be here and I'm proud to be one of your guests.

[Lynne Thoman]

It is my honor, Bonnie, to have you as a guest. So thank you. I was surprised to learn that TV shows are far more popular than movies and that TV shows and series account for roughly 75% of viewing. That seemed really high to me. But as I thought about it, I realized that it made sense. When you consider that t shows and series are longer and have more episodes than movies, how do you think about series and how do you choose and shape shows? Is it based on algorithms?

[Bonnie Hammer]

One of the reasons TV shows are more popular are they simply more accessible. That people can be home, they could be on a plane, they could be anywhere. And these days, thank you to technology, they could watch them easily, tune in, tune out without having to worry about losing continuity for two, two and a half, and sometimes movies like today again, where there's an intermission. So there are a couple of easy reasons why TV shows are so popular. One is that the other is they're addicting. Years ago, we used to produce TV shows that were 20, 22, 28 episodes a season. Now they're shrinking to six episodes, eight episodes, 10 episodes as you stream them. They're addicting. People can watch them, they can choose when they watch them. They can watch two, three, or one at a time, and it's easy. But shaping content is really what's important, whether it's a big time movie or a television series. It's about character, it's about substance. It's all about content. And nowhere, wherever the media industry goes, you know, started with broadcasts and got into cable, now we're streaming. The only thing that's important is great content. That's what people need and want to see. That's what makes the industry.

[Lynne Thoman]

And what did every series that you greenlit need? What makes great content and how do you shape it?

[Bonnie Hammer]

Great characters, people that others can relate to. We started many, many years ago at USA, which oddly now in 2025 is the buzzword. We came up with something called Blue Skies programming. And Blue Skies programming was about upbeat drama with a dollop of humor and characters that you could relate to. They were imperfect, but they weren't completely negative or bad characters. And it was about really great content that was relatable to everyone and you could understand them, get into their thinking, get into their mindset. And I take a look at what's happening right now with Suits, which we've developed and produced in 20, started in 2011, launched in 2011, 2012, nine seasons worth has just come back in the past year and has been a top 10 series on Netflix after 13 years, which is pretty incredible. And that's because it was relatable characters who were imperfect but you were rooting for them to succeed and stories that related to your own life in one way or another, even if it was a stretch.

[Lynne Thoman]

So interesting you mentioned Netflix, that Suits is now on Netflix. How do you see Netflix and Amazon Prime Video?

[Bonnie Hammer]

Well, the truth is I wish we had bought Netflix early, early, early in the game because they had the right idea in terms of growth and what they wanted to do very early on, before any of us really believed that streaming would be the future. I think they are incredibly well done and organized entities that are producing bold content and getting it out there. Amazon is amazing simply because the media business is one of its smaller parts. The marketplace supports everything that's happening on Amazon, so the amount of funds going in there gives that team a lot of possibility. Netflix is basically based on content, only content. And I give them a lot of credit in terms of what they've been able to do since the inception and.

[Lynne Thoman]

Where they've taken seems like the big blockbusters, the movies, the shows and the events are increasingly popular. How do you see big blockbusters? Do hits rule now more than ever?

[Bonnie Hammer]

Kits and blockbusters will win more at the box office. They are produced so they can be seen on big screens that have big effects and they need to go globally in order to get their money back. But I would say they're fewer and relatively speaking from years ago, far between because they cost so much money and there's no guarantee what they're going to do at the box office. When you think about a box office movie, it's great to be able to go to a theater and have that option. But these days they always have the back end to depend on whether it's the company's own streamer or selling it to a Netflix or an Amazon or whoever else they're going to sell it to. Years ago they couldn't quite get the same amount of money from back end sales as they do now. But blockbusters are meant for the big screen and that's why they're done with the hope that they would bring in top dollar globally.

[Lynne Thoman]

Is the strategy on producing content now bigger, fewer, better, or what is the new strategy on developing content?

[Bonnie Hammer]

I think each entity looks at it differently. For blockbusters, I do believe it's fewer, bigger, better spend on fewer entities, but do them well and do them big. I think for television, for streamers, right now it's kind of the opposite. And I'm slightly worried about that as somebody who grew up in content, loves content, that it's more producing, more for less. Almost going back to the old cable model where instead of looking at certain series for nine seasons, 20 plus episodes per season, it's trying it out as a six, eight or 10 episode entity, not spending as much as you would have years ago, seeing where it goes and then going to season two, going to season three, doesn't often last away. Old cable and broadcasted, where you can go into season eight, season nine, or the Dick Wolf series, go into season 15, 16, 17 and onward. So I think the model for blockbuster movies for theaters is one way more investment fewer, but for series, more series less expensive, less expensive.

[Lynne Thoman]

How does digital technology and social media change? The role of talent is power shifting to the stars.

[Bonnie Hammer]

I don't know how it's affecting stars right now or developing stars right now. I think as you probably believe it, I would assume you do. There's a great upside and a huge downside to digital media and digital in general. It's based on how it's being used. If it's used for the good, if it's positive support, that's great. But when I see how unfortunately certain digital, not media so much, but how digital is being dealt with with the younger generation and the kids right Now I worry about it. I worry about it for them, I worry about it for the future. I worry about in terms of credibility at large. So can it be a fabulous support and has it changed my life in a lot of positive ways? Yes. But do I worry about it in terms of the effect it has on the younger generation and their addiction to it? Absolutely.

[Lynne Thoman]

Is power shifting to the stars with their huge social media followings.

[Bonnie Hammer]

I think it's a supporter of the stars and can help make stars, but could also help break stars. I think it's a double edged sword depending on how it's being used by them and their representatives and their press people. But I also think it can turn in a really ugly direction when social media goes astray because of what influencers do who are not supportive of them.

[Lynne Thoman]

Like so many things these days. Yes, we haven't yet talked about artificial intelligence. Right now AI is mostly used to recommend what we should watch or listen to based on past behaviors. It seems on the cusp of becoming a full fledged content creator. How do you see the future of AI as a content creator?

[Bonnie Hammer]

I think it has some interesting upsides and some scary downsides. As an aid, a support, a degree of helping research or play with characters or play with writing, there's a fair amount of positivity connected to it, but I think that if it is exclusive and trusted and not double and triple checked, it's extremely dangerous. And I also think it's a crutch where when you think about creative from my generation, our generation, it was all inside the head, working with others, using your own creativity. Yes, you did research, but the writing and everything about it was yours or your team's. Now it's hard to tell whether something comes out of ChatGPT or whether it's really come out of somebody's brain. I've played with it recently just for the fun of it as I look at other book proposals and it's both fun but scary what I got back. And it worries me unless there are the right amount of controls around it in terms of all of our businesses, of what the filters are, how it's used, not that it's used.

[Lynne Thoman]

Yes, I think that that's a worry that we won't be able to understand what it's recommending or what it's doing and essentially that we'll need another AI to check an AI which seems a fraught situation. Another impact of AI that seems to be on the cusp of happening is interactive and immersive experiences. It's so exciting to imagine watching a movie or maybe a sports game and being able to jump into the scene itself using virtual reality. How do you see the potential of interactive and immersive experiences?

[Bonnie Hammer]

I love the idea. I love the potential. It's been around for a long time. Years ago, we had these goggles that we would put in and you'd have a depth of field and you'd be seeing things around you, et cetera. And that was. I remember when we were doing Mr. Robot with Rami Malek. That was the first show where we actually experimented on a short piece for one of the film festivals where it was completely virtual and it was truly interactive. And it took us a ridiculous amount of time to shoot and put out. I think we had like nine cameras to do less than six minutes of video. It was a fabulous, interesting experience, but it's been a long time since we even tried that. For it to get to a place where it's common usage. Again, like everything, I think it has some fun, wonderful potential. But if it gets in the way of human beings having live interaction with other people, we're going to have problems.

[Lynne Thoman]

How do you see the potential of interactive experiences where viewers can influence the show in more real time?

[Bonnie Hammer]

As someone who's an old media type, literally and figuratively, it frightens me a bit. How do you react when somebody can get into the middle of something, affect the thought process of many others lives on something you've spent so much time creating and producing? I don't know. That makes me a little nervous personally. But again, I'm an old media gal.

[Lynne Thoman]

What role do you think that biometric data like heart rate, eye movements or even neural feedback will play in shaping personalized and interactive entertainment experiences?

[Bonnie Hammer]

I think it will have a place and time for it. I mean, I look at data right now having only to do with, with lifespan, aging, dementia, things that affect age and people as we move along and I realize how much I don't know yet and how much data is out there and how much all of those things, whether it's your heartbeat, what challenges the heart, what challenges the mind, has already been developed and is out there to learn that I don't even have enough knowledge of at this point. Taking all of that data, all of that research, and using that as a tool to see how people react or interact with experiences both live or mediated, is a pretty incredible thought. I don't know how quickly we'll get there, but it is telling. If you're watching something that is so dramatic and is action packed and somebody can actually check to see what that heartbeat increase is and how quickly it decreases. That's an amazing tool to judge whether your action scene is working.

[Lynne Thoman]

Yes, and as you mentioned, double edged before, that to me seems the epitome of double edged. It could make the experience so much more heightened and it could also be so much more addictive.

[Bonnie Hammer]

Without doubt. I think of almost everything we're talking about in terms of the present and future of media, of AI, of television versus film, all of it doing less content for more money, doing more content for less money. All of it is a double edged sword. If there's so much of a bulk of content that everything feels the same, why should people tune in as opposed to have fewer, greater series that you're almost back on a schedule. You're definitely going to tune in when that show comes on at Peacock or wherever because it's quality as opposed to just feels like another show. Same thing with blockbusters. If they're fewer to go to, to a movie theater, why bother? Why just not wait till it comes to the screen? All double edged?

[Lynne Thoman]

What do you think about AI generated celebrities or actors or musicians?

[Bonnie Hammer]

It truly worries me because when you think about the legality and everything else with taking content, taking a talent, using AI to replace them in a song, in a movie, in a television series, in re editing or whatever, it is very scary to me because it will take away jobs. It's illegal. It is already being used in illegal ways that there's conversations about where it's just trying to fix something on screen or in an audio track and it's AI fixed. How far they take it to me is a bit dangerous in terms of again, where are the controls, where the filters to know when it's good and usable and right, and saving some money and time versus just wrong in terms of creating those characters digitally. I want to see live people doing shows with live performances, even if recorded, taped, filmed, whatever or digitized. But are human beings doing those jobs as opposed to AI generated? It's a form of art, yes, but I'd like it to stay art, not get in the way of jobs.

[Lynne Thoman]

What are you most excited about in media and entertainment?

[Bonnie Hammer]

To me, media and entertainment is only about great content and it's the younger generation coming up creating the next batch of content of great ideas that relate to today's world, today's society, today's characters, to see what they will bring. There are some amazing young people out there right now who are super creative and I kind of want to see where this generation goes it's all about content. No matter how you look at media, the only thing that counts is great content.

[Lynne Thoman]

Before I ask for the three takeaways you'd like to leave the audience with today, is there anything else you'd like to mention that you have not already talked about?

[Bonnie Hammer]

People always talk about the change in media and that they look at every single change as the end of an era or the end of a form of content or a form of distribution, and that it's going to change a whole world. Fortunately and unfortunately, I've been in the business a very, very long time, and what you learn is that change is a constant. There's no way to stop it in any way, shape or form, but it never destroys anything. It just moves on, tweaks things, changes things. But again, within media, the only thing that will count at the end of the game is great content. So embrace that change, because it's the only thing you got.

[Lynne Thoman]

And what are the three takeaways you'd like to leave the audience with today?

[Bonnie Hammer]

With all the changes in the media world, when you think about box office to streamers, from cable broadcast to streaming, the only thing that really counts is great content. And great content has all to do with great characters and topics that people can relate to, that they can feel, that they can emote. So in my mind, the only thing that matters as we move forward with whatever distribution of media is creating great content. The other thing I would say is it doesn't matter about your age or your stage. Creativity is creativity and not to be afraid to use it and try to move into whatever media world you want and use your thoughts, use your ideas and try to figure a way to put them forward. The third is people always say don't sweat the small stuff, but when you're in the media world, you have to sweat all stuff in order to create great things. Nothing is too small to think about or worry about for great product.

[Lynne Thoman]

Bonnie, thank you so much. This has been wonderful.

[Bonnie Hammer]

Well, thank you. This has been fun and I hope we can do it again.

If you're enjoying the podcast, and I really hope you are, please review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps get the word out. If you're interested, you can also sign up for the Three Takeaways newsletter at 3takeaways.com, where you can also listen to previous episodes. You can also follow us on LinkedIn, X Instagram and Facebook. I'm Lynne Thoman and this is three Takeaways. Thanks for listening.