Relatable or risky? The PM’s podcast problem

Summary

---

Podcast Summary

Podcast: 7am
Episode: Relatable or risky? The PM’s podcast problem
Host: Daniel Jakes (Solstice Media)
Guest: Paul Bongiorno
Date: July 10, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s recent gaffe on a comedy podcast and expands to assess the broader ramifications for his public image and Australia's diplomatic standing in the Pacific. With commentary from political veteran Paul Bongiorno, the discussion covers the tension between relatability and statesmanship, perceptions of gender sensitivity, regional security challenges amid China’s missile testing, and the politics of telecommunications reliability.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The PM’s Comedy Podcast Gaffe

• [00:10] Albanese attempted to show his relatable side in an appearance on comedian Nikki Osborne’s "Bush Deep" podcast.
• The segment included a "shag, marry, date" game with references to Kylie Minogue, Nicole Kidman, and Rhonda Burchmore—deemed inappropriate for a sitting Prime Minister.
• Quote:

  "To assume the Persona of a sort of a Benny Hill smut comedian talking to Nicky Osborne...is this really the message that the Prime Minister of Australia wants? It's not only beneath the Prime Minister, you'd think it's beneath any decent person, frankly."
  —Paul Bongiorno [01:46]

• The PM quickly issued an apology. However, his team was not fully briefed, with figures like Tanya Plibersek unaware an apology had already gone out.
• Quote:

  “Should the Prime Minister nip it in the bud and apologise? ... No government's been better for [women’s equality].”
  —Tanya Plibersek [03:15]

2. Risks of Informal Media Appearances

• [03:59] The episode delves into the risks for political leaders in casual or comedic settings.
• Albanese’s comfort and confidence in navigating media sometimes lead to missteps, overshadowing policy achievements.
• Quote:

  “He and his staff should vet these podcasts … Who’s doing them, why are they doing them and what are the risks?”
  —Paul Bongiorno [03:59]

• Osborne herself characterized the interview as a big risk that "gave her comedy gold."
• The atmosphere was overly informal: the interview at The Lodge, joking about alcohol and sexual innuendo, including a tangent about "the Prime Minister of Japan’s melons."

3. Women’s Issues and Perception Problems

• [02:28] Previous interview missteps have also left Albanese open to criticism, particularly on women’s issues, such as brushing off questions about a Royal Commission into femicide.
• While government defenders point to record numbers of women in cabinet and legislative advances on gender equity, the optics of gaffes undermine progress.

4. Pacific Diplomacy & Regional Security

• [06:05] The episode transitions to Albanese’s diplomatic activity in the Pacific, highlighting new security treaties with Fiji and Papua New Guinea modeled after the ANZUS alliance.
• These treaties are a response to increased Chinese influence and assertiveness in the region.
• The Opposition supports the government’s regional focus but raises concerns about Australia’s real military capacity.
• Quote:

  “If a missile like the one tested by the Chinese was aimed at Sydney or Melbourne...do we have the missiles and the equipment to come to anybody’s aid, or even our own?”
  —James Patterson (Shadow Defence Minister) [07:06]

5. China’s Missile Test & Strategic Signaling

• [07:28] Discussion of China’s recent missile test, which coincided with Albanese’s Pacific meetings, is presented as a potentially intimidating signal to Australia and regional partners.
• Government insiders believe it was a direct message; the opposition and Pacific leaders agree it’s an act of intimidation.
• Security expert Sam Roggeveen offers a counter-view: such tests are routine for nuclear states and have been conducted by the US in the region as well. Some NZ voices criticize regional double standards in response to such tests.
• Quote:

  “Pacific island nations don’t want anybody testing ballistic missiles in the Pacific.”
  —Paraphrased from Pacific leaders/Wale, Prime Minister of Solomon Islands [08:40]

6. Climate Change as a Critical Regional Concern

• [09:59] Climate policy emerges as a clear differentiator between Australia’s major parties with Pacific treaties explicitly citing climate change as the “single greatest threat" to the region.
• Fiji's leader, Sudhavani Rambuka, emphasizes the existential nature of climate change for island nations, and Liberal-National opposition is painted as out of step with these priorities.

7. Australia-India Relations

• [11:20] With Indian PM Narendra Modi visiting, Australia’s growing engagement with India is discussed, highlighting the rapidly increasing Indian diaspora and the significance of maintaining ties with the world’s largest democracy.

8. Telstra Outage and Political Accountability

• [12:33] A recent Telstra outage (following an earlier Optus issue) sparks debate over essential services being run by private operators.
• The opposition quickly politicized the event, but the government is under real pressure to address telecommunications reliability.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Paul Bongiorno on the PM’s Podcast Appearance:

  “To assume the Persona of a sort of a Benny Hill smut comedian ... is this really the message that the Prime Minister of Australia wants? ... It's not only beneath the Prime Minister, you'd think it's beneath any decent person, frankly.” [01:46]

• Tanya Plibersek on Labor’s Record:

  “No government’s been better for [women’s equality] … but what I’d say on women’s equality in this country is that no government’s been better for it.” [03:15]

• Paul Bongiorno on Media Vetting:

  "He and his staff should vet these podcasts … Who’s doing them, why are they doing them and what are the risks?" [03:59]

• James Patterson on China’s Missile Test:

  “I think it is designed to threaten Pacific island nations in particular ... about demonstrating China’s capabilities, military capabilities, which are very formidable.” [07:06]

• Paul Bongiorno on Climate Policy:

  "Climate change, quote, is the single greatest threat to the livelihoods, security and wellbeing of Pacific peoples." [09:59]

• On Telecommunications Outages:

  “...the government is certainly on notice after this Telstra outage that it has to be seen to be taking this very seriously indeed.” [13:02]

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:10–01:18: Albanese’s podcast gaffe and apology
• 02:28–03:59: Albanese’s history of problematic interviews and government defense
• 04:17–05:43: Behind the scenes of the podcast, risks, and the nature of the conversation
• 06:05–07:45: Pacific security treaties, China’s missile test, opposition response
• 09:59–11:15: Climate change in Pacific treaties and differences between political parties
• 11:20–12:33: India-Australia relationship and significance of Modi’s visit
• 12:33–13:57: Telstra outage, political fallout, and essential services debate

---

This episode of 7am delivers a wide-ranging look at the intersection of image, leadership, and policy—holding a mirror to the odd and sometimes risky balancing act required of modern politicians in both domestic and diplomatic arenas. The PM’s bid for relatability, the evolving security dynamics of the region, and the essential day-to-day responsibilities of government all come into sharp focus.

Transcript

[Daniel Jakes]

We're at rapid fire questions now. Every guest gets asked these. Shag, marry, date, Kylie Minogue, Nicole Kidman or Rhonda Burchmore.

[Paul Bongiorno]

I've just got married, I'm only six months in.

[Daniel James]

Anthony Albanese has, with growing confidence, spent years trying to convince voters he's relatable.

[Daniel Jakes]

But if it goes tits up, let's just pretend.

[Paul Bongiorno]

Oh, Kylie. Clearly.

[Daniel James]

But this week, that confidence carried him somewhere the office of Prime Minister probably shouldn't go.

[Daniel Jakes]

He'd marry Kylie and Shagga and Data.

[Paul Bongiorno]

All of the above.

[Daniel Jakes]

All right. It's a triple.

[Paul Bongiorno]

She's terrific.

[Daniel James]

The apology came quickly then, as the Prime Minister turned to rugby league diplomacy in the Pacific. China tested a missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. It was a week that moved swiftly from political embarrassment to regional unease and left labor managing the Prime Minister's image at home and Australia's influence abroad. I'm Daniel Jakes and you're listening to 7am today press gallery veteran Paul Bongiorno on a turbulent week for Anthony Albanese, marked with missteps, a communication breakdown and a focus on Pacific diplomacy in tumultuous geopolitical waters. It's Saturday, july 11th. Paul, the PM started the week with an apology after some unfortunate comments on a comedy podcast. That's a rookie era, isn't it? I mean, surely it's beyond the office of the pm. I mean, you don't eat an onion on camera. We all know this by now. But you also don't play shag, marry date, do you?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, you certainly don't. I mean, I really agree.

[Daniel James]

I never thought I'd ask you a question like that.

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, exactly. I mean, Albanese prides himself on being able to be a relatable person, talking to people off the piste, as it were. But to assume the Persona of a sort of a Benny Hill smut comedian talking to Nicky Osborne, who, by the way, calls herself Bushy and her podcast is called Bush Deep, which is a, you know, it's a sexual pun. And previous videos have had millions of views. So we all know sex sells, but is this really the message that the Prime Minister of Australia wants? It's not only beneath the Prime Minister, you'd think it's beneath any decent person, frankly.

[Daniel James]

This isn't the first time an interview like this has gone wrong for the Prime Minister. Earlier this year, there was a run in with an FM radio host over the possibility of a Royal commission into femicide.

[Paul Bongiorno]

Look, there's calls for royal commission about everything.

[Daniel Jakes]

Well, I think the rights of women are Pretty paramount, wouldn't you say?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Yeah, there are, but you gotta work out, what does a Royal commission do besides fund lawyers?

[Daniel James]

Do missteps like these leave him open to criticism for having a woman problem?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, look, it's a bit mystifying because as his defenders, I mean, the acting Prime Minister, Miles and Tanya Plibersek. By the way, Plibersek wasn't told that Albanese had put out an apology for his remarks in regard to shagging Kylie Minogue, but they were able to point to the record of the Albanese government. Should the Prime Minister nip it in

[Tanya Plibersek]

the bud and apologise? Well, I haven't listened to the whole of the podcast. I just heard that excerpt that you played then. But what I'd say on women's equality in this country is that no government's been better for it.

[Paul Bongiorno]

It has the biggest representation of women, not only on its backbench, but half of the cabinet is women. It's done more for gender equity and pay equity than any other government. Which makes it all the more mystifying why you'd want to send out an image of that runs counter to that sensibility.

[Daniel James]

I mean, I guess you could see why Albay does want to do these less serious interviews. I mean, we're talking, always talking about our politicians, wanting them to be more real, more relatable. But do you think that it's worth the risk for the pm?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, my view would be that he and his staff should vet these podcasts. You know, who's doing them, why are they doing them and what are the risks? I mean, even Nicky Osborne herself said that the Prime Minister took a big risk but gave her comedy gold.

[Daniel James]

Well, certainly good publicity at the very least.

[Paul Bongiorno]

Exactly. But look, Albanese, a bit pig headed when it comes to all of this. He's very confident that he can handle any situation. But it does seem that the context got away from him, really. He also in the podcast tells Nicky Osborne that it's very rare for him to let any media into the lodge. They're in the sitting room of the lodge and was clearly set up. I mean, for example, not only did she come in her Persona as bushy, but they had two fingers of whiskey each to share. You know, this sort of innuendo's going all the way through it, talking about his sex life, talking about the Prime Minister of Japan's melons, you know, all this sort of stuff.

The Japanese Prime Minister brought a melon here.

[Daniel Jakes]

How did he get that through customs?

[Paul Bongiorno]

She it's a royal melon oh, she smuggled.

[Daniel Jakes]

It was a she.

[Paul Bongiorno]

She.

[Daniel Jakes]

Did she smuggle it?

[Paul Bongiorno]

I don't know. I don't.

[Daniel Jakes]

Oh, I'm expecting.

[Paul Bongiorno]

Got a couple of melons.

[Daniel Jakes]

She brought two.

[Paul Bongiorno]

She brought, as you do.

[Daniel Jakes]

She just came in looking like Pamela Anderson.

[Paul Bongiorno]

She brought two?

[Daniel Jakes]

Yes.

[James Patterson]

Really?

[Paul Bongiorno]

And they're beautiful. Speaking of melons, someone should have said, and maybe Albanese should have said, uh, oh, what am I doing here? And if I don't play along, I might look like a stuffed shirt. And is there any way out for me other than to say, lovely to meet you, Nikki. Goodbye.

[Daniel James]

Coming up, meetings and missiles in the Pacific. Paul, this week the PM was doing security deals with our Pacific neighbours. You called it rugby league diplomacy. How significant were those meetings?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, they were very significant. In fact, the Albanese government, since it came to power, has done more than merely repair the neglect of the Morrison government. It has filled the void, really, that the Americans have left to the soft diplomacy of China over the past decade. And it has forged a new treaty with Fiji which was signed during the week, which is of the same ilk as the Anzus Treaty, namely, and we've got one now with Papua New guinea as well, that if either of these nations are attacked by a third party force, then we will come to their aid. Which raises the question how? Which I must say that while the Opposition actually supports everything the government's doing in the South Pacific, James Patterson, the Shadow Defence Minister, did wonder whether we had the missiles and the equipment to come to anybody's aid, or even our own aid. If a missile like the one tested by the Chinese was aimed at Sydney

[James Patterson]

or Melbourne, I think it's right to call it provocative. I think it's right to call it destabilising. I'd also say it's coercive and intimidatory. I think it is designed to threaten Pacific island nations in particular and intimidate them. And it's about demonstrating China's capabilities, military capabilities, which are very formidable. But I think the People's Republic of China should think very carefully about the long term consequence of this.

[Daniel James]

Let's talk about that. Because during his meetings in the Pacific, China launched a missile test with a missile that was capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. Was there any connection between the test and the meetings? Do you think it was aimed at sending Australia and the island nations a message?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, look, there's conflicting views about this Government insiders I spoke to have absolutely no doubt that this was a message not only to Australia, but to Pacific island nations that China's around and by the way, were to be taken seriously. Now the Prime Minister said it was disruptive of the region. The opposition took a harder line and they said it was China intimidating the region, which is, interestingly, the Prime Minister of the Solomons actually agrees with James Patterson when he says China was trying to intimidate us. It's not the action of a friend and we will not be intimidated. There's a very interesting view which I hadn't appreciated until I spoke to Sam Roggeving from the Lowy Institute who's a security expert. He actually agrees and accepts the explanation of the Chinese Foreign Ministry that this test was routine and according with international law. He says that what happens with nuclear armed states and submarines, they test their weapons, which are reactive weapons, they are defensive to be fired in terms of if there's any nuclear attack on the mainland or on Chinese assets or American assets. And Roggeveen pointed out in the past 12 months alone the Americans have carried out four of these tests in their Pacific ballistic testing range. Wale, the Prime Minister of the Solomon, says in fact the Pacific island nations don't want anybody testing ballistic missiles in the Pacific. There are critics I was reading yesterday in New Zealand that say that Australia, New Zealand and some of the Pacific islands, you know, are a bit two faced about this. They don't criticise America doing exactly what they criticize China for. And under successive governments now Australia's basically become a military outpost of the United States.

[Daniel James]

I guess when we're talking about the reaction from the opposition. Do you think the opposition's stance on net zero and leaning into one nation type rhetoric over monoculture as they are at the moment, should the government be highlighting its ability to engage with our Pacific neighbours as a real point of difference between itself and the other side of politics?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, Daniel, I think it's very important that the Australian government deal with the Pacific island nations according to its own policies on a whole range of key issues. And I think what has been overlooked in some of the reporting, very high up in fact in a key passage of the treaty between Australia and Fiji, the document says that climate change, quote, is the single greatest threat to the livelihoods, security and well being of Pacific peoples. Sudhavani Rambuka, the Prime Minister of Fiji actually pointed out that climate change is an existential and present threat to these nations and they are looking for not only Australia but the rest of the world community to take more notice and to treat the issue with more urgency. And that of course is a real split or Fissure between the policies of the Australian labor government and the Liberal National Party opposition. And by the way, also one nation who actually thinks that climate change science is a joke and a hoax, quote unquote.

[Daniel James]

There was also a practical bit in the agreement that says Australia and Vanuatu plan to work together on renewable energy. Renewable power for Vanuatu's communities, wasn't there?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Yeah, that's right. I mean, they're looking for support from Australia and they're getting it.

[Daniel James]

All this comes, Paul, at a time when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is in Australia for the annual meeting with our Prime Minister. How significant is our relationship with India becoming, particularly during such an unstable time in global politics?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Really interesting. India is of course the largest democracy in the world, but people forget that India was always during the Cold War, non aligned and even now takes a more non aligned stance and for example, does not share Australia's view of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So there is this in a sense almost a disconnect. However, we can't ignore India for several reasons. One is because it's such a huge place and an emerging major economy. But there is also now a very big people to people connection between India and Australia with the Indian diaspora getting close to overtaking the Chinese diaspora with something close to a million Indians now making Australia home. In fact, while Modi was in Melbourne this week, he held a big rally in Marvel Stadium where he addressed them not in English, Pauline Hanson, but in Hindi.

[Daniel James]

Before I let you go, Paul, the Telstra outage this week was very quickly politicised by the coalition saying labor needs to take urgent action about this and hold telcos to account. Labor tried to make it about Liberal Senator Sarah Henderson stunt after she made a test call to Triple Zero. But following the Optus adage, and now this with Telstra. Is this a serious issue for the government having so many of our essential services linked to private telco operators?

[Paul Bongiorno]

Well, it certainly is, but I suspect that horse has bolted. But you'd have to say what's going on. I mean, a lot of people went back to Telstra after the Optus situation and Vodafone had earlier issues that seems to have sorted them all out. But I think the government is certainly on notice after this Telstra outage that it has to be seen to be taking this very seriously indeed. Now there is no doubt that the opposition, particularly Sarah Henderson, the Shadow Minister in this area of communications, was quick and rushed to politicize it. But you know that even when a strident critic like Henderson speaks out and maybe she shouldn't have made her own test calls to Triple zero. In fact, there's a suggestion she might have broken the law in doing it. She has, I think, pinpointed a real and urgent crisis that needs to be addressed by the government.

[Daniel James]

Paul, you've got my number. You can call me anytime. Thanks once again for being on 7am

[Paul Bongiorno]

Good on you, Daniel.

Bye.

[Daniel James]

7:00am is a Daily show from Solstice Media. It's made by Ariel Richards, Atticus Bastow, Chris Dengate, Crystal Keller, Renee Auckland, Ruby Jones, Travis Evans, Zoltan Fetcho Jr. And me, Daniel James. Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio. Thanks for listening to 7am this week. Have a great weekend.