Loading summary
Transcript59 lines
- [00:01]
Anthony Albanese
Joining us live from Canberra this morning is the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. Prime Minister, good to have you with us. First things first. Do you now concede? Good morning, Pete. You lied to the Australian public.
- [00:12]
Daniel James
These were the questions Anthony Albanese could not escape. Artery's government handed down its fist budget.
- [00:18]
Hannah Ferguson
This is being labelled.
- [00:20]
Anthony Albanese
Good morning, Nat.
- [00:20]
Hannah Ferguson
A budget of broken promises. Can Australians still trust the things you say?
- [00:26]
Daniel James
Labor wanted it framed as bold reform. A budget about fairness, productivity and giving younger Australians a better shot at housing. Instead, the immediate political fight became whether the Prime Minister had broken his word.
- [00:41]
Anthony Albanese
We have changed our position, Nat. I'm up front about that and we'll own that and we'll argue why that's the case. We've been throwing everything.
- [00:51]
Daniel James
But once all the noise dies down, a sharper image begins to emerge. A government willing to make some politically difficult choices at a time when the political environment has never been more fractious.
- [01:03]
Angus Taylor
Foreign.
- [01:07]
Daniel James
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to 7am today, CEO of Cheek Media and host of the big small Talk podcast, Hannah Ferguson on the ambition, the compromises and the contradictions at the heart of the budget. It's Saturday, May 16th. Hannah, good to see you again. You were in the budget lockup. When you walked out, what did you think the real story of this budget was?
- [01:40]
Hannah Ferguson
I think the real story of the budget is probably there's never just one story of a budget. I think it's unfair to kind of pin it to one thing, which the mainstream media obviously always will. This idea of broken promises has dominated this week, but I think there's a lot of substance. This budget that for, you know, the first in a long time, that's actually taking on meaningful major reform. It's been a massive newsweek. But I also think that the missing conversations that are happening on social media, not in corporate media, are discussions around this missing tax, on gas exports, around NDIS cuts, and how the government, I think, has kind of, in many ways breadcrumbed us to think that this tax reform announcement is major because they haven't been doing major things for this term. You know, the coverage that we've been doing this week, looking at this tax reform and seeing in our comments section, seeing in our messages, in our inbox, put people saying, you know, let's celebrate this. Absolutely. Let's celebrate this kind of bold action from the government because they have done so little. I think it's that idea of when you're starving, you feel like anything is a meal. And so I think that this is tax Reform that should be celebrated. But I think we also need to be realistic and at a macro level, look at the fact that we're excited and we're affirming, but we want more. And that's okay to ask for too.
- [02:49]
Daniel James
So instead of a big conversation about big issues, the media coverage immediately focused on broken promises. We saw some, quite frankly, ludicrous front pages from some of the dailies, particularly in the Murdoch media. What have you made of the reaction to this budget? Was the hyperbole warranted?
- [03:07]
Hannah Ferguson
I think that we're always going to expect from the Murdoch media that they're going to come out with a hammer and sickle and call him communist. Jim, like I wasn't particularly surprised. I think I was surprised by how far it went. But what frustrates me more than anything, and I think a lot of people listening might have the same sort of feelings, is that when the Murdoch media turns to this kind of radical extremist viewpoint that positions our treasurer who's trying to do something, you know, affirming for the community and recognise this issue we have in housing at the moment, this massive Australian problem where young people are never going to be able to buy their first home at the current rate that we see the Murdoch media turn to this like radical right wing extremist kind of response. What that does is that allows the public square to focus on that as the debate instead of the substance of what we're working with and what the tangible change will be. So my frustration is when this is the narrative that's driven by the mainstream media, there is no room left to have actually an exciting discussion about where to, from here.
- [04:00]
Daniel James
Do you think that the general public is buying that type of extremism now from, from the papers? Do you think it's something that people are following as a point of discussion or is something that people are more or less ignoring now?
- [04:13]
Hannah Ferguson
I think that, you know, we need to be realistic. You know, I come from new media, from online media, very digital first space. And so I understand that my reach is an audience that has, you know, an echo chamber viewpoint of progressive policy and ideals. Right? So I need to understand the echo chamber, the silo that I exist in. But I do think we need to recognize that the Murdoch media has a hold on a large portion of Australians. A particular voter demographic, a particular age demographic I would suggest too. And there is real impact there. Like, I'm not denying that. But I also think we need to remember that, you know, these, you know, these changes to the CGT discount actually really only impact the 10%, you know, the top 10% of wealthy Australians. But the way they're being fed to the mainstream public is that they're going to affect you if you aspire to have wealth. Because for a really long time in Australia, we have normalised this idea of housing as of property as a wealth creation vehicle, and that sentiment is now going to change. And I think that what the media has done a really good job of is saying that, you know, hard work earns you this kind of success and this kind of property portfolio, this has been positioned as the Australian dream, not to just have your own home and kind of work a job, but to actually have a property portfolio. If you just work hard, you can get there. And that's not reality. And aiming that kind of sentiment at the everyday Australian creates a distorted vision of what people's actual tangible impacts this kind of a policy are going to be. So my worry is not that, you know, this is kind of taking hold, but that we've normalised this ideal of this aspiration, when I don't think it's what most Australians experience or are ever going to have in their lifetime.
- [05:45]
Daniel James
How do you think most younger Australians are viewing these changes? Because some people are saying the changes to negative gearing are too modest, while other parts of the Mehira and the opposition are saying that the capital gains reforms will unfairly punish young people trying to get ahead through buying shares.
- [06:00]
Anthony Albanese
It's not so much wealth. I mean, you've got young people are included in this lot too, who have a little bit of savings every month and they put that into the share market to try and get ahead, maybe get a house deposit, maybe save for their kids. I don't know, it could be anything. Why punish them, though?
- [06:13]
Daniel James
But do you think these changes will be mostly viewed positively?
- [06:17]
Hannah Ferguson
I think that young people are consuming from different media sources. And so I think that the conversation that younger voters are having, Gen Z and Millennials, is there's a recognition from us that, you know, actually we are still getting kind of the raw end of the deal here. If the wealthiest in our society are going to be able to maintain things like negative gearing with grandfathering of this policy, I think that young people have an awareness, we have an ability to talk through these. I think there is a recognition, a celebration that our government is doing something. But I think that very quickly there will also be a conversation about the fact that really what young people were advocating for most in this budget was a 25% tax on gas exports. That's been ignored. The resources sector is still being very well protected by this government. And actually this policy doesn't go far enough. But, yes, it's a start. And we're going to give that applause, too.
- [07:01]
Daniel James
When Anthony Albarduzzi was interviewed by Sarah Ferguson on 7:30, she put to him that there'll be about 700,000 more Gen Z voters on the roll at the next election.
- [07:11]
Sarah Ferguson
Were you discussing at that time the political payoff for you, that by doing this if the opposition chooses to oppose all of these changes that you're bringing forward, that it will damage itself in the eyes of young voters?
- [07:26]
Daniel James
He rejected the idea that it was about electoral politics.
- [07:29]
Anthony Albanese
No, we were discussing the merits of the policy and whether it stacked up. That was our sole focus was, is this good policy?
- [07:38]
Daniel James
Why do you think he's dodging that framing?
- [07:40]
Hannah Ferguson
My view of this labor government is that they always want to come across, you know, any government wants to come across as acting, morally, acting in the interests of the community rather than making a calculated decision based on their voters. Right. So I think that this budget has been pitched as being, you know, the intergenerational inequality kind of reform that we need. It's being pitched at young people. It's trying to attract the voter base of the Gen Z and millennials. That will be the strongest cohort at the next election, too. And I think that the point that I land on every time is I know, I personally know, and that there are good people within labor that are trying to do something significant here. I think Chalmers is one of those people. I'm really impressed. I want to celebrate the budget that he's delivered. But I do think it's really obvious to me and anyone watching that there's a lot of people in labor, especially our prime Minister, that are also trying to stop that progress and sit on that conservative, moderate, centrist kind of approach that's letting young people down.
- [08:34]
Daniel James
Coming up, how the opposition is trying to out one nation. One nation. Hannah. On Thursday night, Angus Taylor gave his budget reply speech in which he doubled down on the same policy territory that he campaigned on in the lead up to the Farabai election.
- [08:59]
Angus Taylor
With labor having opened the migration floodgates, the dream of home ownership has become a nightmare for so many Australians.
- [09:07]
Daniel James
What did you make of his speech?
- [09:08]
Hannah Ferguson
Oh, I mean, it's one nation light, right.
- [09:10]
Angus Taylor
Mass migration is changing Australia for the worse. The number of people coming in far exceeds the number of houses built.
- [09:20]
Hannah Ferguson
I think we are in a dangerous territory right now where we also have, you know, a cohort Especially my followers who are saying, you know, be careful how you critique labor because it could result in One nation's rise. And that's a really scary conversation to be having. But I would also say to that that labor need to be stepping up to the plate and responding better to One Nation and the coalition's, you know, racist rhetoric around immigration. The kind of, you know, anti climate action stance that he took last night. Angus Taylor as well.
- [09:46]
Angus Taylor
Labor's net zero obsession is driving up inflation and destroying our economy and that's why net zero must go.
- [09:56]
Hannah Ferguson
And the fact that we could potentially see a coalition between the Liberals, the Nats and One Nation at the next election, that is a dangerous idea, especially with the kind of, you know, similar competing narratives that they're pushing into the public domain right now. And I think we need to be honest and upfront about that. But we should also expect more from the government to go further to kind of beat and sort of, you know, dismiss this rhetoric too.
- [10:17]
Daniel James
And when it was his turn to front Sarah Ferguson on 7:30, she kept pressing him on actual numbers around his immigration policies.
- [10:25]
Sarah Ferguson
You've made a big statement in your speech. You're not prepared to back it up with numbers.
- [10:29]
Angus Taylor
Even though I've just given you the numbers.
- [10:31]
Sarah Ferguson
Well, you haven't given me the final.
- [10:32]
Angus Taylor
Well Sarah, I've said what the number will be. It will be based on the number of houses that are built. Now I'll ask you, well if I may, you know, how many houses will labor build in a couple of years time if I was to guess?
- [10:47]
Sarah Ferguson
You can put those questions to Labor. Let me ask you a different question.
- [10:49]
Daniel James
She also pressed him on tax plan costs. He couldn't really offer any sort of coherent answer to those questions.
- [10:56]
Sarah Ferguson
Number you came up with.
- [10:57]
Angus Taylor
So we can argue about this all day and we might have different, we might have different numbers. I think what matters is whether there are savings there to pay for it.
- [11:06]
Hannah Ferguson
That's the question.
- [11:07]
Sarah Ferguson
Well, and how much it is matters to you, Taylor?
- [11:10]
Angus Taylor
Well, it's true.
- [11:11]
Daniel James
What did that tell you about the coalition's alternative to Labor's budget?
- [11:15]
Hannah Ferguson
Look, I just, I think when I say it's like very much vibes approach, I think when it comes to One nation and the coalition right now there is just not that much in terms of substance. The policies they're putting forward are very much based on vibes. They are trying to read the room, but that room is still quite a right wing minority. They are not representing, you know, centrist Australia. They are not even trying to speak to Left wing Australians. I pitched to all of these people to speak to them after Budget day. I asked Angus Taylor, I asked Andrew Hastie, I went to Hanson, I went to someone from every party. Essentially. I got only a response from Hastie's office saying he's unavailable. You know, I think there are a lot of young people that are actually trying to see if they're willing to step in and have a conversation. But they're so evasive even with mainstream media, which proves to me that they don't really have substance or the costings or the sort of measurements for these policies and that it is just based on the rhetoric that they're learning from from One Nation.
- [12:07]
Daniel James
Late in the week, Roy Morgan dropped polling which claimed One Nation had more primary support than labor and almost doubled the support of the coalition. Do you think the coalition's rhetoric on migration is only going to get harsher? Are they going to keep trying to out One Nation? One Nation?
- [12:22]
Hannah Ferguson
Oh, absolutely. I think that we can expect the fight to get dirtier and dirtier as we head towards a potential 2028 election. I don't think, you know, One Nation's going anywhere. I actually saw an incredible video from the Australian Council of Social Services during the week that showed the media scru basically looking at Pauline Hanson coming out of an elevator versus, you know, key stakeholders that were speaking about what the budget's doing to cut, you know, essential services and seeing 5 media cover them and 100 media fighting for a photo of Pauline Hanson fighting for an image of Angus Taylor fighting for an image of Barnaby Joyce as they come out to kind of offer very little but, you know, this vibes based approach of anti immigration sentiment. I think Australians need to look at their voting record. I think Australians need to understand that they are just spewing kind of things for the mainstream media to pick headlines from.
- [13:08]
Sarah Ferguson
This was a budget basically that says this is a Marxist, socialist, communist budget. We're going to strip wealth, we want to disperse wealth, you know, right across it. They're not going to inspire, but I
- [13:19]
Hannah Ferguson
think it's just a kind of sad indictment on the state of media, on the state of politics, that this is the competition we have right now.
- [13:25]
Daniel James
The government has found about $38 billion in savings from the NDIS which it says are about securing the future of the scheme. But when you look at how those savings are being made, what does that tell you about the fairness claim at the centre of this budget?
- [13:40]
Hannah Ferguson
I think, you know, there are valid critiques of the NDIS that we need to be able to speak about. But those critiques are looking at the providers, fraud within providers and actually the people that are being punished under these cuts is about 160,000 participants in the NDIS. And the government's come out yesterday with the kind of modelling for, you know, things are going to change when it comes to powers given to the minister, when it gives to these automated, you know, different systems that they're applying to kind of remove people from the scheme and remove the services available to them. And then we're seeing different testing for what is considered a permanent disability. When we're looking at the actual policy changes here, I actually find them scarier than even what was presented to us a couple of weeks ago. I think that all of this sort of, these cuts to the NDIS that were sort of pitched to the media a couple of weeks ago were almost an exercise in desensitising us to when the actual announcement occurred. And it was harsher, it was scarier and it was, you know, incredibly dehumanising to read from the government, especially when this government is pitching this about a fairness agenda, especially for young people. Who do they mean? Because if they mean cutting 160,000 participants from the NDIS, this isn't really the human fair budget that they're pitching.
- [14:47]
Daniel James
Finally, Hannah, given the state of our politics, including the coverage by the fourth estate, are we now living in a time where it is now only possible to implement significant structural reform by breaking promises, given the reaction to the proposed tax reform in previous elections?
- [15:05]
Hannah Ferguson
I think when it comes to this rhetoric around broken promises, we need to ask ourselves, whose promise is being broken in terms of, you know, what does the electorate want? What do young people of Australia ask for now when we're talking about a broken promise? If the majority of Australians want this change, is it breaking a promise or is it actually moving with the moment? Is it actually moving with the dialogue, with the needle, with what people in Australia need right now to have a prosperous future? And I think that, you know, this idea of broken promises, incredibly boring and reductive view of what is a really fascinating public conversation about what the impacts are here and what this actually means for young people over the next five years in the housing markets, you know, slowing growth in price. And I think it's just frustrating to see, as a smaller media player, as we desperately try to work our way into the centre and deliver interesting commentary, to see how all of the readers are stuck with, you know, the Murdoch media's view of communism, which this absolutely is not.
- [16:03]
Daniel James
Hannah, thank you so much for not being boring and reductive.
- [16:06]
Hannah Ferguson
Thank you so much for having me and saying that I appreciate it.
- [16:10]
Anthony Albanese
Foreign.
- [16:20]
Daniel James
Am is a daily show from solstice media. It's made by atticus bastow, ariel richards, chris dengate, crystal keller, ruby jones, travis evans, zoltan fetcho and me, daniel james. Our theme music is by ned beckley and josh hogan of envelope audio. Thanks for listening to 7am this week. Have a great weekend.