All About That Bass

Summary

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99% Invisible: "All About That Bass"

Episode Overview

Theme:
This episode explores the revolutionary impact of the Roland TR-808 drum machine (the "808") on the sound and culture of contemporary music. Through a collaboration with the podcast 20,000 Hz (host Dallas Taylor), Roman Mars and guests trace the history of recorded bass, the emergence and design of the 808, and its seismic influence on hip hop, pop, and electronic music.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Forgotten Origins of Bass in Recorded Music

• Early Limitations:
  • Vintage recordings (1910s-1950s) lacked audible bass, not due to lack of interest, but because of the technical limitations of microphones and speakers.
    • [02:28] Dallas Taylor: “Whenever I listen to vintage music, one of the first things that I notice is a lack of bass...”
• Mid-Century Changes:
  • Improvements in studio microphones and stereos in the 1960s and ’70s made bass more prominent in popular music like Led Zeppelin’s “Dazed and Confused” and disco.

2. The Birth and Evolution of Drum Machines

• Early Drum Machines:
  • Placed on home organs, designed to mimic simple drum kits for at-home musicianship.
  • [07:50] Paul McCabe: "If you see photos of some of the earliest drum machines... you’ll even see drum machines that are designed to sit on top of an organ..."
• Professional Adoption:
  • By the 1970s, musicians began experimenting creatively with drum machines (e.g., Sly & The Family Stone's “Family Affair”; Kraftwerk’s “The Robots”).

3. Designing the Roland TR-808

• Vision & Construction:
  • Roland's TR-808 was designed to be portable, robust, and flexible, almost “military” in its ruggedness.
    • [10:17] Paul McCabe: “When one sees a TR-808, it almost looks military in its design. It's kind of a drab olive color... Because you could drive a truck over them, and probably... they would still work.”
• Initial Market Reception:
  • The 808 did not sell well at first—priced at $1,200 (≈$4,600 today) and quickly overshadowed by drum machines that used real drum samples.
  • [18:39] Dallas Taylor: “At first it wasn’t a big hit. For one thing, it cost $1,200...”

4. The Sound That Changed Everything

• Unique, Artificial Tones:
  • Unlike sample-based drum machines, the 808 had fully adjustable synthesized sounds, leading to unique creative opportunities.
  • [21:05] Dallas Taylor: “The 808 may have sounded artificial, but those video gamey tones were highly adjustable. And that ended up being the key to its success.”
• The Iconic 808 Bass Drum:
  • The pivotal feature was the "decay" knob, allowing extended, booming bass notes. This sound became foundational to hip hop, Miami bass, and modern pop.
    • [13:45] Dallas Taylor: “A huge factor in that magic had to do with the 808’s bass drum sound and a little knob for controlling it labeled Decay...”
  • [22:55] Dallas Taylor: “Here’s DJ Jazzy Jeff himself opening up that decay and letting the kick drum drive the song.”

5. The 808's Role in Hip Hop and Bass Music

• Game-changer in Production:

  • Affordable secondhand 808s fell into the hands of early hip hop producers who favored their aggressive, customizable kicks and snare sounds.
    • [19:50] DJ Jazzy Jeff: “I ended up getting mine from a pawn shop because you couldn’t really walk into a store and see an 808.”
  • [21:39] DJ Jazzy Jeff: “...the clav and the cowbell. Those were two very distinctive sounds that if you put them on anything, you knew they came from an 808.”

• Pushing the Envelope:

  • Producers like DJ Jazzy Jeff had to fight with engineers to allow the “boomy” 808 kicks, insisting on it being the focal point of the track.
    • [25:31] DJ Jazzy Jeff: “When we did He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper…I remember fighting with the engineer because I wanted to push the envelope on how loud and how deep I wanted the 808...”
    • [26:13] DJ Jazzy Jeff: “I had to fight with the engineer to turn it up, and he would turn it down and turn it up...”

• Invention of a Cultural Phenomenon:

  • The 808 kick became synonymous with the sound of cars “booming” down the street; its sustained bass was used as a musical statement.
    • [23:44] Dallas Taylor: “20 years later, Felix da Housecat released the song ‘Kick Drum’ which pushes that decay to its absolute limit. Today, artists often shift the pitch of these 808 kick sounds to create full-on bass lines.”

6. The 808’s Enduring Legacy

• Cultural Impact:
  • The 808 defined genres including pop, R&B, Techno, House, EDM, and world music.
    • [28:37] Paul McCabe: “Today, the 808 is just everywhere through pop music... it’s not an understatement to say that the 808 is an instrument that has actually defined culture.”
• Musical Empowerment:
  • Its distinct possibilities allow producers to break technical “rules” and create emotionally impactful, memorable songs.
    • [29:06] DJ Jazzy Jeff: “This is why I love music so much... At the end of the day, you realize that someone who had a crappy week at work, depending on how you present this music, you can change their day.”

Notable Quotes

• On the lack of bass in early recordings:
  • Dallas Taylor [02:28]: “Whenever I listen to vintage music, one of the first things I notice is a lack of bass...”
• On the magic of the 808’s rise:
  • Paul McCabe [13:20]: “There were all these moments...if this guy did this on a Tuesday instead of a Wednesday, we probably wouldn’t be talking about the 808 in this context today. It was literally that kind of magical.”
• On shattering recording rules:
  • DJ Jazzy Jeff [24:49]: “There’s no right and wrong in it. I really feel like the 808 kick drum was one of the first things that started shattering the rules of what you should or shouldn’t do when it came to recording music.”
• On cultural impact:
  • Paul McCabe [28:37]: “It’s not an understatement to say that the 808 is an instrument that has actually defined culture.”

Memorable Moments by Timestamp

• Vintage bass comparison with song examples (02:28–05:04)
• DJ Jazzy Jeff on the ubiquity of the 808 (06:04–06:11)
• Historical drum machine demonstrations (07:50–09:08)
• Exploration of the 808’s sound palette (21:14–21:53)
• The breakthrough of the long, decaying bass drum (22:44–23:44)
• Highlighting 808-driven tracks from past to present (23:44–24:49)
• Personal anecdote: DJ Jazzy Jeff vs. studio engineers (25:31–27:18)
• Comparison between final album sound and Jeff’s original vision (27:23–27:52)

Conclusion

The episode masterfully traces the 808's journey from misunderstood digital oddity to cultural mainstay. Listeners learn how technological quirks, creative persistence, and a hunger for new bass sounds collided to shape the music we love today. The voices of innovators like DJ Jazzy Jeff and Roland’s Paul McCabe capture the spirit of experimentation and boldness that made the 808 not just a tool, but a defining voice in modern music.

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For more episodes and show details, visit 99percentinvisible.org.

Transcript

[Roman Mars]

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[Dallas Taylor]

You're listening to 20,000 hertz. I'm Dallas Taylor. Whenever I listen to vintage music, one of the first things that notice is a lack of bass for example, in 1912, the top song in America was the haunting melody by Al Jolson.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

Tell me, have you ever heard yes melody?

[Dallas Taylor]

Since this was recorded with a full orchestra, there's almost certainly a double bass in there, but you'd never know it from the record. Twenty years later, things were not much better. Here's a Louis Armstrong track from the early 30s. In this one, the double bass is just barely audible. In the 1950s, the bass started becoming a bit more noticeable in Bill Haley's Rock around the Clock. You can definitely hear what the bassist is playing, though it's still pretty quiet.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Join me on have some fun when.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

The flag strikes we're gonna run around.

[Dallas Taylor]

A decade later, bass guitars were much more common, but the recordings were still pretty thin. In this Rolling Stones track, the bass guitar and kick drum just aren't very present.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

I get your kicks I'm rooting 6 to 6.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

Now.

[Dallas Taylor]

It's not that people back then didn't care about bass. The microphones they had just weren't very good at capturing those frequencies. And even if they could, the speakers and headphones that people had just couldn't reproduce those low pitched sounds. But in the 60s and 70s, a few different companies released microphones that were much more sensitive to low frequencies. At the same time, people started investing in stereo systems that could blow those old 50s radios out of the water. The result was an explosion of bass heavy music. From rock classics like Dazed and Confused to disco hits like Le Freak.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

All that pressure got you down has your head spinning all around.

[Dallas Taylor]

But as bassy as that is, it's nowhere near the booming sub rattling tones we hear today.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Now they always say congratulation.

[Dallas Taylor]

To unlock a sound like that, musicians would need something truly revolutionary. It was a little device that came out in the early 80s and went on to transform the sound of popular music. The 808 drum machine. The 808 is everywhere. You may or may not know it by name, but you've definitely heard it before.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

To the old town road I'm gonna ride till I can't no more I.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

Laugh because if I listen to the radio for an hour, there's not one record that you hear that's not an 808.

[Dallas Taylor]

That's DJ Jazzy Jeff. He's a world renowned DJ producer and hip hop icon. Famously, he was Will Smith's partner back in his Fresh Prince days, commanding the cut.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

He's always on track. He's DJ Jazzy Jeff and he's a cut maniac. But for your personal safety, you should Be told that my dj Jazzy Je.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

We were seeking out what we heard on the early hip hop records and the machines that they used. And there was nothing that was more distinctive and more sought after than an 808.

[Paul McCabe]

The Roland TR808 is a drum machine.

[Dallas Taylor]

That's Paul McCabe from Roland, the company that created the 808. When they first released it. Back in the early 80s, drum machines weren't exactly sought after. For 20 or 30 years, they had mostly been used in the home.

[Paul McCabe]

We have to remember in the 70s, the 60s, the 50s, music being played in the home was still a very popular thing. And television hadn't taken over the living room quite yet. So families would often gather around and they would play music. People would play music as a pastime. A high percentage of the population was playing music.

[Dallas Taylor]

And though families were hanging out in the living room playing music, they typically didn't have a drum kit laying around. They might have a guitar, maybe a piano or an organ. As you can imagine, people wanted a rhythmic instrument that wasn't as big or loud as a live drum kit.

[Paul McCabe]

If you see photos of some of the earliest drum machines, in fact, you'll even see drum machines that are designed to sit on top of an organ where the music rest would normally be. So particularly the earliest drum machines were really working to try and recreate the sound of a small acoustic drum kit. And so there would be a kick drum and a snare drum and cymbals and tom toms.

[Dallas Taylor]

For years, drum machines were used casually and professional musicians mostly ignored them. But in time, musicians did start to find uses for drum machines. By the early 70s, many songwriters would program a drum beat and then write to it. Now, most of the time, this drum machine would get replaced by a live drummer. But not always. One of the first recordings to include a drum machine was Family Affair by Sly and the Family Stone.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

It's a family affair.

[Roman Mars]

It's a family affair.

[Dallas Taylor]

Around the same time, early versions of electronic music were starting to go mainstream. This is the Robots by Kraftwerk.

[Paul McCabe]

Kraftwerk is a four piece band out of Dusseldorf, Germany. They would be one of the founding fathers of techno.

[Dallas Taylor]

For Kraftwerk, drum machines were a perfect complement to their precise synthesized bass lines. By the late 70s, drum machines were finally gaining traction.

[Paul McCabe]

They started to become used more in live performance in a situation where either an acoustic drummer wasn't available or to enhance a rhythm section. And then they started to appear in recordings.

[Dallas Taylor]

At the time, one of the most popular drum machines was the Roland CR78, which was a predecessor to the 808. Here it is in Blondie's Heart of Glass. And here's the CR78 in Phil Collins in the air tonight. These songs inspired early demand for a stage ready drum machine. So Roland got to work on a new model. They wanted to build a machine that was portable, flexible and durable.

[Paul McCabe]

When one sees a TR808, it almost looks military in its design. It's kind of a drab olive color. And there's a reason why TR808s are still being used today. Because you could drive a truck over them and probably many of them would still work. That was kind of what was in our mind at the time. Where it went to, needless to say, is someplace quite different.

[Dallas Taylor]

Over the centuries, there have been a few instruments that changed music forever. The piano revolutionized classical music. Electric guitars defined rock and roll. And the 808 transformed hip hop and electronic music.

[Paul McCabe]

When we think about the sound of the 808. We think of it in terms of its influence on hip hop and R and B. And, you know, when we think of hip hop, of course, we start with Africa, Babada and Planet Rock. It's this otherworldly mashup of this kind of East Coast, New York sound with Kraftwerk.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Gotta fucking don't stop it gotta talk.

[Dallas Taylor]

Like a lot of musicians at the time, DJ Jazzy Jeff heard Planet Rock and was captivated by the drum sounds.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

We emulated whatever we heard. So, you know, when Planet Rock came out, it was kind of like, I need that machine. There was no drum machine that had a kick drum that sounded like that. That had a snare that sounded like that. That had a Christmas to the high hats, like an 808. So it was definitely sought after so that you could kind of make these records.

[Dallas Taylor]

Once these DJs got their hands on the 808, they started expanding on its possibilities.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Listen, listen, listen for the beatbox.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

There was a record Funk Box Party by Mastodon Committee. And he was a DJ that was very, very good on an 808.

[Dallas Taylor]

Musicians were experimenting. Here's Egyptian Lover over on the West Coast. And here's some 808 electro funk from a group called the SOS Band. Here's Indian musician Chiranzeet Singh using an 808 on his album 10 Ragas to a disco beat. And here's Marvin Gaye's more minimalist use of the 808. As the 808 took off, it wasn't clear if this sound had any staying power. It could just be a flash in the pan that would be replaced by the next big thing.

[Paul McCabe]

There was all these moments that were happening, these musical moments that were very serendipitous in the early 80s that, you know, if they'd gone left instead or right, if this guy did this on a Tuesday instead of a Wednesday, we probably wouldn't be Talking about the 808 in this context today. It was literally that kind of magical.

[Dallas Taylor]

A huge factor in that magic had to do with the 808's bass drum sound and a little knob for controlling it labeled Decay. That one tiny knob allowed musicians to push the bass in their music farther than they ever had before, and it created a sound that still dominates to this day. That's coming up after the break.

[Roman Mars]

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[Dallas Taylor]

When drum machines were first developed, they were meant to replace live drummers, so the goal was to sound like a real drum kit using artificial sounds. The Roland 808 was designed with the same idea in mind.

[Paul McCabe]

Even when we got to the TR808, the technology was designed to recreate an acoustic drum kit.

[Dallas Taylor]

The 808 was released in 1980. And at first it wasn't a big hit. For one thing, it cost $1,200, which is about 4,600 in today's money. And soon after it came out, the 808 got some tough competition.

[Paul McCabe]

Right about that same time, 1981, the first drum machine that used recorded sound clips or samples came into being.

[Dallas Taylor]

This new generation of drum machines could play real recorded drum sounds. Once they hit the scene, they made synthesized drum machines like the 808 sound dated.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

To me, this is very Nintendo and atari ish. Here's my computer version of what I think a drum kit is supposed to sound. And it doesn't sound anything like a drummer or a drum set at all.

[Dallas Taylor]

At the time, an atari video gamey drum sound just wasn't what people wanted on their records. But after a couple years of mediocre sales, the 808 started showing up in pawn shops for a fraction of the price.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

I ended up getting mine from a pawn shop because you couldn't really walk into a store and see an 808.

[Dallas Taylor]

Musicians started picking them up because it was a piece of equipment they could actually afford. Recording studios often had one on a shelf collecting dust, or somebody's friend might lend them one for a live show. But the jury was still out on whether the 808 was anything more than a cheap machine that couldn't play real drum sounds.

[Paul McCabe]

The 808 was really facing quite an uphill battle to gain any kind of acceptance. But in a kind of one of these classic your strength is your weakness paradoxes, where the strength of the drum machines that were based on recordings of actual drum sounds Was that at first glance they sounded more natural. On the other hand, certainly with the technology available at that time, you couldn't really adjust the sound that much.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

We were used to having a drum machine that you were stuck with basically the sound that came out of it. There wasn't too much manipulation that you can do. So to have this machine that you can take the snappiness out of the snare and you can add more boom into the kick, this one machine could sound a hundred different ways.

[Dallas Taylor]

The 808 may have sounded artificial, but those video gamey tones were highly adjustable. And that ended up being the key to its success.

[Paul McCabe]

And so with that in mind, you look and you've got these 11 sounds.

[Dallas Taylor]

Here's the snare closed, hi hat open. Hi hat crash.

[Paul McCabe]

Cymbal toms, hand clap, rimshot cowbell. You always gotta have more cowbell.

[Dallas Taylor]

And finally clave.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

When you start getting into the clav and the cowbell. Those were two very distinctive sounds that if you put them on anything, you knew they came from an 808.

[Dallas Taylor]

But there was one sound on the 808 that changed music forever. The bass drum, also known as the kick.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

There was a point in time that I felt like people were afraid of kick drums. You couldn't have the kick drum too loud, you couldn't have it too boomy.

[Dallas Taylor]

Here's Scorpio by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5. You can hear that the kick drum is relatively low in the mix.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

Someone had the heart to put an 808 kick drum, that it was round and it was boomy and it felt really good.

[Dallas Taylor]

Here's Planet Patrol with a rounder louder kick drum.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

Then somebody on a record opened up the decay. And when that kick drum rang out, it was nothing like you've ever heard.

[Dallas Taylor]

Here's DJ Jazzy Jeff himself opening up that decay and letting the kick drum drive the song.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Have you ever in your life experienced a day where nothing at all seems to go your way? No matter how hard you try to get out of the rut, you just could not break the string of bad luck. A day where Murphy's lost.

[Dallas Taylor]

Soon enough, the sound of the 808 bass drum became synonymous with hip hop. The idea of young people driving down the street with big boomy subwoofers was largely because of that tone. Here's Latrim, a Miami bass hip hop duo singing about boomy car stereos in 1988. Notice the signature sustained 808 bass drum sound.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

Cause when you're in the street, you.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Can'T go far without hearing the boom pouring out your core.

[Dallas Taylor]

20 years later, Felix to house cat released the song Kick Drum which pushes that decay to its absolute limit. Today, artists often shift the pitch of these 808 kick sounds to create full on bass lines. Over the last couple decades, this technique has been used in hit song after hit song. It's in Hotline Bling by Drake. It's in DNA by Kendrick Lamar. It's in up by Cardi B. By now, we've heard these booming bass tones in hundreds, if not thousands of tracks. But back in the early 80s, a sound like that was unheard of.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

You're not supposed to have your bass drum driving that much. And it's kind of like, why not? Everybody's riding around in their car playing this music and it's vibrating their car and they enjoy that. There's no right and wrong in it, I really feel like the 808 kick drum was one of the first things that started shattering the rules of what you should or shouldn't do when it came to recording music.

[Dallas Taylor]

The decay control basically turned the 808's bass drum into a whole new instrument. It was so different that the studios making early hip hop records didn't even know what to do with it.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

When we did. He's the dj, I'm the Rapper was the first. First record that I used 808s and 808 samples on that. I wanted the kick drum to really resonate. And I remember fighting with the engineer because I wanted to push the envelope on how loud and how deep. I wanted the 808 because I knew there were some hip hop records that you would get in a car and you would play it and the entire car would vibrate. And I was like, I want that.

[Dallas Taylor]

But since that was so unusual at the time, the engineer refused.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

I had to fight with the engineer to turn it up, and he would turn it down and turn it up. And I had to kind of explain to him, like, I understand that there is a technical way that you think you're supposed to do something. I want to push that envelope. I need this to be this loud. I needed to be almost at the brink that it's not distorting and it's not overpowering everything. But I need this to be the focal point of the record. Hip hop is something that the drums have to drive the record. And I got him to allow me to do it to the point that I loved it. And what I never realized was I never told the mastering engineer that I wanted that. And he thought it was a mistake. And he took all of the 800 out of the album. And I don't think I've ever said this in public. I can't listen to. He's the dj, I'm the rapper. Now, that is the biggest record we've ever done. And I absolutely hate the way that it sounds because they sucked all of the bottom in. From the 808 out in Master.

[Dallas Taylor]

Here'S a clip from he's the DJ, I'm the rapper. As it is on the record, my.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

Rhymes have been written not to be bitten. But as it seems, some suckers keep forgetting the rules about rapp.

[Dallas Taylor]

And here's what DJ Jazzy Jeff was probably going for.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff (performing)]

My rhymes have been written not to be bitten. But as it seems, some suckers keep forgetting the rules about rapping. But that's all right. Cause in the next five minutes I' ma have them all uptight Stronger than a dinosaur Better known the sin I'm in the battles I battle I usually win.

[Dallas Taylor]

The 808 arrived at exactly the right time. Through the 1970s, the rise of funk and disco made people hungry for thumping bass heavy music. Then in the early 80s, the 808 showed up just as hip hop was starting to take off. It was the perfect storm when the.

[Paul McCabe]

808 was absorbed into hip hop culture. The ability to create that boom. And the boom was largely driven by where you took tuned the kick and then where you adjusted its decay to that became the signature.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

So as hip hop grew, the sound of hip hop grew. The backbone of that sound was the 808.

[Dallas Taylor]

Pretty soon these boomy bass drums spread into R and B electronic music and Beyond.

[Paul McCabe]

Today, the 808 is just everywhere through pop music. And just by saying pop, that's such a wide term now, it encompasses world music, electronic music and EDM and techno and house. And it's not an understatement to say that the 808 is an instrument that has actually defined culture.

[Dallas Taylor]

Just like the electric guitar with rock and roll, the 808 allowed musicians to express new ideas, or at least to express timeless ideas in ways that felt new and exciting.

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

This is why I love music so much, because there's a thousand different combinations and ways to get to a result. At the end of the day, you realize that someone who had a crappy week at work, depending on how you present this music, you can change their day. You can introduce two people together that end up spending the rest of their lives together just by playing music in a certain way to bring people together. I've been blessed to have a thumbprint in music and making it or playing it that affects people's moods. That's the coolest job in the world.

[Dallas Taylor]

20,000 Hz is produced out of the sound design studios of Defacto Sound. Find out [e-mail] this episode was written and produced by Phil Corbett and Casey.

[Roman Mars]

Emerling with help from Grace East.

[Dallas Taylor]

It was sound designed and mixed by Joel Boyter and Justin Hollis. Thanks to our guests DJ Jazzy Jeff and Paul McCabe. You can find Jeff's latest work at djjazzyjeff.com and a big thanks to OnePlus for partnering with us on this episode. To learn more, visit oneplus.com I'm Dallas Taylor. Thanks for listening.

[Roman Mars]

The new summer Merch collection is here and I don't mean to shock you, but you will find new 99% invisible swimsuits, like trunks and one piece bodysuits. You might say, God, that's ridiculous. And everyone I've like presented this to is going, wow, that's really weird. And then they go, but like, if you do do them, can I have one? We also have some limited gems, like exclusive Power broker Merch and signed copies of the book the 99% Invisible City. Supplies are limited and once they're gone, they are gone. Visit SiriusXMstore.com Invisible and use code 99PI25 for 25% off. Design is everywhere, including T shirts and beanies and yes, swimsuits.