A $120M Founder Roasted My Hiring Process (And Fixed It)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Action Academy | Millionaire Mentorship For Your Life & Business

Episode: A $120M Founder Roasted My Hiring Process (And Fixed It)

Host: Brian Luebben
Guest: Ryan Deiss
Release Date: January 27, 2026

---

Main Theme:

How to Hire, Manage, and Build Systems for Your First Employees

Brian Luebben sits down with Ryan Deiss, an entrepreneur behind $120M in business, to discuss the art, pitfalls, and mindset of hiring, especially for founders and operators transitioning from solopreneurship. Ryan breaks down actionable tactics to build effective teams, implement sound operating systems, and cultivate a vision that attracts top talent—even on a startup’s budget.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mindset and Challenges of First-Time Hiring

• Starting Out: Brian shares his struggles and “crash and burn” stories from hiring early on, including the pain of barely affording a virtual assistant and lacking management skills.
  • “I had to go through 10 VAs of crash and burns to build that skillset.” (01:44)
• Impostor Syndrome: Ryan acknowledges that everyone struggles at first and encourages founders to see these skills as “figureoutable.”
  • “All of these things are figureoutable. And so just because you haven’t done it before doesn’t mean you can’t do it.” (02:34)
• Hiring as a Mindset Shift: Instead of doubting why anyone would join a fledgling company, flip the script—it’s an opportunity for new hires to join on the ground floor.
  • “The people on the outside, they don’t know you have no idea what you’re doing… All they know is you posted a job and it seems cool—because it is cool.” (03:05)

2. When to Hire: Recognizing the Shift from Hustle to Delegation

• Hustle First, Hire When Needed: There’s a season where founders have to “make it rain” and do it all. But eventually, your own bandwidth bottlenecks growth.
  • “You just gotta do two jobs. Because right now, today, you can’t afford to go and hire somebody else.” (04:14)
• The Excuse Becomes the Reason: Delay in hiring can stunt growth; sometimes not being able to afford help is because you aren’t hiring.
  • “The reason you can’t afford to hire that person is because you’re so busy doing all of these things…” (04:28)
• Letting Go If it Doesn’t Work: Hiring isn’t a one-way door—a misfire isn’t permanent. Don't let ego delay necessary action.
  • “It’s okay to go to them and say, I am really sorry…I’m gonna have to let you go. It’s okay to do that.” (05:03)
  • “What I actually did is I held them back from that place by providing them the best, worst option.” (06:19)

3. 90-Day Hiring Mindset & High-Impact Hires

• The 90-Day Bet: Treat each new hire as a 90-day experiment with clear checkpoints.
  • Brian: “Every single hire is a 90-day bet.” (06:46)
  • “If by 90 days…they’re not paying for themselves…it’s not a fit.” (07:15)
• Hiring Up, Not Down: Early on, hire higher-impact people who can deliver ROI—don’t only offload low-level work.
  • Ryan: “Start off hiring higher level people before you think you need it. It is actually lower risk.” (07:56)

4. Vision Over Compensation & Attracting Talent

• Sell the Destination: Having a compelling vision is crucial in attracting the right talent, sometimes even before you can pay what the market demands.
  • “You gotta have that crystal-clear vision…sell them on the destination.” (08:29)
  • “A lot of [talent] from within our community…are saying, ‘Hey you don’t need to pay me yet, we’ll figure something out.’ Because they believe in the vision.” (08:11)

5. Building Operating Systems: The Key to Scalable Teams

• Visualize First: Start with process mapping to see exactly how your business creates and fulfills value.
  • Ryan: “You cannot optimize until you visualize. So first, we visualize.” (10:33)
• Checklists and Playbooks: Only build documentation and playbooks for business-critical steps with high error risk; don’t over-systematize.
  • “Most of the businesses that we run, they’ve got 10, 15, 20 playbooks that actually matter. They don’t have hundreds.” (11:44)
• Assign Clear Ownership: Each step in the process must have a single owner—no split responsibility.
• Systems Precede People: Focus on solving for systems first, then hire the people to run them.
  • “Good people don’t fix broken systems. Broken systems break good people.” (13:02)
  • “I am not trying to hire rockstars and ninjas and A-players… My goal is to build companies that do not require them.” (13:13)
• Scorecards and Meetings: Only run meetings if there’s a scorecard—a regular rhythm to review the vital flow of the business.
  • “My rule is: no scorecard, no meeting.” (13:58)
• Vision Things Last: Don’t start with vision/goal-setting. First, ensure processes work and value flows through the company.
  • “If you’re not even clear on how you create value and the systems to do that, you have no business setting goals.” (14:20)

6. Visionary vs. Integrator: It’s a Spectrum

• Founders often must play both roles, especially in smaller organizations. You can’t “opt out” of crucial work just because it doesn’t match your strengths.
  • “If it’s your company…there are certain things you don’t get to opt out of. I don’t get to just not change diapers.” (15:03)
• Build a functional leadership team first; don’t jump to high-level ops managers before you have heads of each area.
  • “Build that functional leadership team first. Don’t try to build some ‘I want to have one person that reports to me that then builds everything else.’” (15:42)

7. What Makes a ‘Great System’?

• A great system:
  • Any employee can see where they fit in two minutes
  • Clear, connected roles, metrics, and goals
  • Informs hiring plans and scorecards
  • “If the systems don’t connect to the people and then the metrics…it's not a good system.” (17:43)

8. Building & Assigning Winning Scorecards

• Use the business process (“value engine”) map to assign meaningful metrics at each stage—avoid vanity metrics.
  • “Scorecards…tell a story of the customer journey.” (19:11)
  • “Whether you pick or you say you guys duke it out or flip a coin, I don’t care. But one person needs to own it.” (19:27)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hiring Mindset:

  • “All these things are figureoutable…there are people out there who can help you…so start from there.” (Ryan Deiss, 02:34)

• On Early Startup Hiring:

  • “The reason you can’t afford to hire that person is because you’re so busy doing all these things.” (Ryan Deiss, 04:28)

• On Letting Go:

  • “What I actually did is I held them back from that place by providing them the best, worst option.” (Ryan Deiss, 06:19)

• On the 90-Day Bet:

  • “Every single hire is a 90-day bet.” (Brian Luebben, 06:46)

• On Systems Before People:

  • “Good people don’t fix broken systems. Broken systems break good people.” (Ryan Deiss, 13:02)
  • “I am not trying to hire rockstars and ninjas and A-players and all that gobbledygook nonsense. My goal is to build companies that do not require them.” (Ryan Deiss, 13:13)

• On Company Operating System:

  • “You cannot optimize until you visualize. So first, we visualize.” (Ryan Deiss, 10:33)
  • “If you’re not even clear on how you create value and the systems to do that, you have no business setting goals.” (Ryan Deiss, 14:20)

• On Scorecards:

  • “My rule is: no scorecard, no meeting.” (Ryan Deiss, 13:58)
  • “If it’s multiple people [owning a metric], then nobody’s responsible for it…one person needs to own it.” (Ryan Deiss, 19:27)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:44 – Early hiring struggles and the reality of learning by failing
• 02:34 – Ryan on adopting a “figureoutable” mindset
• 04:14 – The hard truth about when it’s time to hire
• 05:03 – Dealing with hiring mistakes and letting people go
• 06:46 – The 90-day bet and risk mitigation
• 07:56 – Hire higher-level people early for ROI
• 08:29 – Selling vision to attract early talent
• 09:05 – Introducing operating systems and process mapping
• 13:02 – System problems vs. hiring problems
• 13:58 – Purpose of meetings and the “no scorecard, no meeting” rule
• 14:20 – Why operating systems matter before vision/goal setting
• 15:03 – Visionary vs. integrator roles
• 17:05 – What makes a great system
• 18:15 – Building and assigning meaningful scorecards

---

Tone & Language

• Candid and practical, with a dose of humor (e.g., analogies about diapers and gobbledygook).
• Action-focused: Clear, step-by-step takeaways.
• Supportive but realistic about entrepreneur struggles.

---

Final Takeaway

If you’re trying to escape your 9-5 and build a business with leverage, master hiring as a learnable skill, focus on high-impact teammates, and build systems that allow talent—and your company—to flourish. Don’t obsess over “A-players” or perfection: build solid systems first, set a clear vision, and iterate as you grow. Hire is a 90-day bet, not a lifelong marriage, and it’s okay to let go of what doesn’t fit. And remember: if you can’t visualize how your business creates value, don’t set goals—start with the process map.

---

For more, search for the full interview with Ryan Deiss on the Action Academy podcast feed.

Transcript

[A]

What's up guys? This is your host as always, Brian Lubin. Today's podcast episode is me getting roasted by a 120 million dollar founder slash entrepreneur, Mr. Ryan Dice. Because guys, I am just not that great at hiring yet. Who can relate? Show of hands. Everyone in the room has their hands up. Wonderful. We have a podcast episode for you today. Guys. I got so much good feedback from our episode last Friday with Dan Martell. The short podcast punchy episode that is just straight to the tactics, straight to the action that we are going to start doing that one or two times per week on the Action Academy podcast. Due to the sheer volume of Action Academy, with five episodes per week, we understand that you guys can sometimes miss some of the best episodes and the best content. So what me and my team are doing now in Austin, Texas full time is we are going and combing through our best and brightest episodes and taking out the punchiest, most actionable takeaways for you guys and putting them into these short shows. So. So today's episode is a short hiring clip from an episode that I did with Mr. Ryan Dice. If you guys want to go listen to the full episode, I don't yet know what link is best to link for these in the show description, so I will just post the full title of the episode so you can type it into Spotify, Apple, wherever you're listening. Just so you guys know, today's episode will cut off at about the 19, 20 minute mark. It's not a full episode, so if you want more, you can go search the other podcast title in the description and that will be the full show, guys. Thank you. Let's get to it. For the person that's just getting started and maybe they're at their first hundred thousand dollars of revenue, or maybe they're starting up this real estate shop and they've got a few deals that they're flipping. They're doing some stuff. They just started this company and they're doing a little bit and they can't really afford that top talent like now at 2 million a year. Like I am now seeing exactly what you're talking about. I'm like, okay, I can hire that person for six or seven grand a month, or I can hire that person for four or five grand a month. And they come in and I'm like, I can't imagine life without you. Like, I'm making sure that your payroll is covered before anything in the business. I can't function without you. This is amazing. But before that I was like, dude, I could Barely afford to hire a freaking va. And then also there comes the. The point of I don't think I was capable of managing that person before. And I had to go through 10vs of like crash and burns to build that skill set. What's some advice that you can give to somebody that's just, I get it. And maybe I do have the revenue, but I've never hired anyone before. Like, why would they work for me? I don't even know how to manage this person.

[B]

Well, a couple of things. All of these things are figureoutable. And so just because you haven't done it before doesn't mean that you can't do it. And I'm still learning. So many people. Yeah, so many people. Like, also known as 100% of everybody who has done it. There was a time when they hadn't and they figured it out. So I would just start from that frame of this is incredibly figureoutable. And there are people out there who can help you listening to this podcast and having these types of conversations. And there are communities out there of entrepreneurs who want to help you. So start from there. In terms of people wondering, why would anybody want to come and work for me? That's the imposter inside your brain talking. The people on the outside, they don't know that you have no idea what you're doing. Okay, yeah, they don't know that. All they know is you're somebody who has posted a job and it seems like it might be cool because it is cool and it is pretty exciting. And you know what? It is such a phenomenal opportunity to be one of the first people coming into a brand new company. Flip it. What an incredible opportunity to be on the ground floor of this brand new business. What a cool opportunity for this person to be there in the earliest days. How great would have been to be in the earliest days of some of these other earliest days of Apple, of Microsoft. Right. Of Nvidia, like, how amazing would that have been? So a lot of this is just a frame and a mindset shift of realizing that you definitely can figure it out. These are very learnable skills. And then when it comes to the timing of it, because I do think that that is a very real thing. We talked earlier. There's a season when you do just need to hustle. You do just need to suck it.

[A]

Up, Buttercup, make it rain.

[B]

You just gotta do two jobs. Because right now, today, you can't afford to go and hire somebody else. Because currently your revenue is about zero and you need to Go out there and you need to make it rain because that's your job. That's the job description. Make it happen. But there also comes a day when the excuse is the reason and when you're saying I can't afford to hire this person, the reason you can't afford to hire that person is because your so busy doing all of these things and what you really need is somebody to do this other thing so that you can focus on the higher leverage tasks. That's what I mean by the excuse is the reason. And wisdom is knowing when that time is. When do I shift from hustle hustle to okay, now it's time to make this higher. Now there's not a perfect time when it's obvious and the entrepreneurial genie is going to pop out of the thing and just be like, oh, it's time. Having smart mentors around you to say, yeah, I think it's about, I think it's about time. But it's also important to, to remember when it comes to team members, they come with a 12 month finance plan. And this sounds really harsh, but if you make a mistake and you hire too soon and that person doesn't pay off and you can't afford them, it's okay to go to them and say, I am really sorry, I made a mistake and I'm gonna have to let you go. It's okay to do that. And we think that if we do that that this person's life is going to be over. But that's our own ego. I can't tell you how many times I have delayed letting somebody go because I thought, oh, but if I let them go, they'll never be able to find a job anywhere else. I let them go, they got a new job like the very next week. Making more money at a place that's closer to their house that they enjoy.

[A]

More, that they're thriving at.

[B]

They're freaking fine. They're totally fine. And what I actually did is I held them back from that place by providing them the best, worst option.

[A]

Yeah, wrong person, wrong seat.

[B]

Exactly. So if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, you'll let em go and they'll be fine and you'll be fine and you'll get to try again at a later date. So just know that none of these are one way doors that you walk through and then that's it. You just made this choice and it's a permanent choice. No, you're gonna make the best choice based on the information that you have. And you're gonna try it and it's gonna work out or it won't. It doesn't. You'll make a different choice and you'll try again later and it's going to be just fine.

[A]

The best advice I got on that was every single hire is a 90 day bet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, you're rolling the dice. You're like, okay, I've got 30, 60, 90. You're setting clear expectations. When I start, when I learned about 30, 60, 90 and I started implementing that in our business, I was like, okay, so I see this as $100,000 a year employee. So I've got $100,000 a year plus employees now. And I was like, whoa, yeah, where did that come from? How I pay 500 grand in payroll now? That's so cool. Yep. And in the beginning I was just like, I viewed that as a hundred thousand dollars that I need to have my bank account. And then I realized I was like, wait, no, how much is that salary? Broken down is 70, like $7,708,000, 12 month finance plan. So I need to have three months of that saved and take it a three month gamble. And if by 90 days, if they're not paying for themselves, I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe you're, you haven't been here. And it's not a fit.

[B]

And that's why I said hire high impact people who can do stuff that actually can be accretive, that can have an roi. Don't hire exclusively low level people that can just do low level work to take it off your plate because they will not roi. You will feel like, oh, I don't have to do all this stuff anymore. Except, oh yeah, you're going to have to manage them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Start off hiring higher level people before you think you need it. It is actually lower risk higher level people earlier, man, I love it.

[A]

And at the end of the day, it comes to selling a vision. Right. Another thing that I learned from Gary Keller was it's more than just compensation. There's so many different ways. Like when you have communities and stuff, you're able to attract talent. So like from us, like Action Academy, we're able to attract a lot of our talent from within our community. And a lot of them are saying in the very beginning, hey, you don't need to pay me yet, like, we'll figure something out. Because they believe in the vision.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So you gotta have that crystal clear vision. Especially in the beginning where you're like, this is where we're going sell them on the destination for the sake of time, for that last like 20 minutes or so that we have. Let's talk operating systems. Okay. Because this is your favorite thing to talk about and it's every single YouTube video that you have that I had to stop watching them because I was like, if I keep watching them, I'm going to know exactly what you say. So I had to stop. So let's talk operating systems. When you go and you're coaching somebody that is very much so self employed person, what, what are some of the key operating systems that you help them integrate into their businesses? That, where they can go take that two weeks, that 30 days off per year and be able to have that time for their family again.

[B]

Yeah, the, the very first thing that we do is, is what I described before. We are going to go in and we're going to create visual process maps of how this company creates value. And value is going to come in the form of number one, how do you get customers or clients? And number two, how do you fulfill on the promised value once you got them? We want to visually map that out. That is step one. And I'll tell you, it's the one thing that no businesses do except really big companies. Have you ever heard of Six Sigma? Yeah. Really massive companies do this and you can hire a Six Sigma person to come in for six figures and they'll do this for really big companies. It's called business process mapping. If you get an mba, you might even take a class on business process mapping. But nobody teaches it to small businesses, nobody teaches it to entrepreneurial companies. And man, it's just not that freaking hard. You say, what is the thing that starts this process? So, for example, somebody comes into your world, a customer, how do they become aware that you exist?

[A]

Yeah, for us it's gonna be podcasts or Instagram.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because we've done exactly what you said. Visually mapped. Yeah.

[B]

And then when they're buying something, what are they typically buying?

[A]

They're buying an annual mastermind. There you go. Yeah.

[B]

And it wouldn't be that hard to go back to Instagram or podcast and say, okay, after they listen to the podcast, then where do they go? Then what happens? And you can visually map that whole thing.

[A]

And then what happens in the next. Okay. And then they go into onboarding. What's the email sequencing look like? Then this. And then most importantly, where do we begin to see people drop?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then that's where you reinforce.

[B]

And so once you have visually mapped It. And this is the whole thing. We so often are optimizing things that aren't broken in our business and we're flailing around and trying to fix stuff because you cannot optimize until you visualize. So first we visualize. Then what we do is we say, okay, what are the steps and stages that we absolutely, positively cannot screw up? They're really important and they got a high chance for human error. Let's build some checklists and playbooks around those. So many people go out there and they read the E Myth and they believe that they gotta document every little piece of every aspect of their business, and you just don't. In fact, you shouldn't. It's a giant waste of time. I know. I did it too. Shut down the entire company for a month to document everything that we did. Giant freaking waste of time. You don't have to do it. Most of the businesses that we run, they've got 10, 15, 20 playbooks that actually matter. They don't have hundreds. Okay, then we ask, who. Who is responsible for these things? That's why I said, give away the sticky notes. Who's going to do these things? And how do we make sure that it's not overly dependent upon too few people? The founding team. Then you get into, how do we know these things are working right? And that's where the scorecards and the metrics come into play. But what I'll say is we solve for systems first. If you notice, we mapped the value engines, then we created the playbooks, then we asked the who question. That is so incredibly important. What we have found is that good people don't fix broken systems. Break good people. And if you hire people and you just fling them at problems and they keep failing, you likely do not have a people problem. You likely don't even have a hiring problem. You likely have a systems problem. And everybody says, oh, but it's who, not how. And that sounds like really great fortune cookie wisdom. But my whole thing across our business, I am not trying to hire rock stars and ninjas and a players and all that kind of gobbledygook nonsense. My goal is to build companies that do not require them. And it doesn't mean that we don't have a level talent. We do. Because when you have companies that have great systems, do you know what those companies attract talented people. And so all these people saying, oh, just hire a players and rock stars and you don't have to, man, they want to work for great companies. What do great companies have great systems solve for systems first, then solve for people. That's what's so important about this. So software systems. We figure out who's going to run those systems. Then we're going to build scorecards to track and make sure that those systems are running smoothly. We're going to build a meeting rhythm so that we're actually looking at these things. You should. Everybody hates meetings. And it's become this movement to say, let's have no meetings. I think that most teams should be meeting once a week to review the scorecards. But my rule is no scorecard, no meeting. I want to meet to review the scorecard so that we can look and talk about how we doing with these metrics. But if there's no scorecard, I don't want to meet. So we're not going to meet. Just say that we're meeting. But if we're going to meet, I want to look at data and we're going to talk about the data and how we're going to optimize the stuff. Then we can get into goal setting, strategic planning, and all that other stuff. But the way that everybody does it, it's so stupid. And it just doesn't freaking work. It sounds like it should, it just doesn't. Everybody else goes out there and they're like, let's set a vision. Let's set our goals. What's our mission? And they create all these fricking, like, posters and like entrepreneurial arts and crafts time. And they're like, this is where we're going. Okay, how are we going to get there? And let's work backwards and do all this stuff. It sounds good and it sounds like it should work, but if you're not even clear on how you create value and the systems to do that, you have no business, you have no business whatsoever setting goals. So we flip it on its head. Yep, all that stuff you should do. But don't do it until you can first answer the question, how do you get customers? And then what do you do with them once you got them? That's the core of an operating system. That's what an operating system is. It is those things. And so once we have that installed in a business, it's cool. They can pretty much run themselves.

[A]

Yeah. Classic visionary versus integrator debacle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And some things don't come like, as naturally to others, but it's just like, for me, I realize that we have a tendency to label it like binary, I'm a visionary or I'm an integrator, but really there's a spectrum. And you have to, like, put on different hats.

[B]

Yeah, you have to do both.

[A]

If you.

[B]

If it's your company, I look about this. It helps being a parent, because as a parent, you realize that there's certain things you don't get to opt out of. I. I don't get to just not change diapers. I don't get to be like, I'm really more of a visionary.

[A]

Your virtual assistant's not gonna change diapers. Yeah, I'm not.

[B]

I'm more of a visionary parent. So I more do the playing with them. I don't really do the diaper changing. And I feel like that's just. Just originate all over the place. I don't really have to do the dirty work. Again, it sounds good, and it's why it sells books. It just doesn't work in practice. Okay. In practice, you need to both be able to set the vision, and you also need to make sure that that vision is executed. And the idea that you can simply hire somebody to do all the dirty work. When you're an entrepreneurial company, I've seen it work about never times. It just doesn't work. It can work. When your company is hundreds of millions of dollars. Fine. You've got enough depth there at the leadership level for it to work. What you should look to build as an entrepreneur leader, as a CEO, is. Is a leadership team. So you should look to have functional leaders. So you should have a head of sales ahead of marketing, ahead of programs or product. Those leaders should be responsible for their particular areas. And I'll tell you, if you've got that, maybe eventually you do hire a head of operations that they all report into that, that's fine. But build that functional leadership team first. Don't try to build some. I want to have one person that reports to me that then builds everything else. You're just adding an additional very expensive level of management that is separating you from the functional leaders that are actually going to have an immediate roi.

[A]

Ooh, A few questions there. First is, how do you constitute a great system? So you say, hey, you need to build great systems. And when I was starting, I was like, okay, yeah, guys, we gotta build great systems. Let's build a great system. I'm like, what the is a great system? Like what? How do I classify this system that I just created from being a giant flaming pile of dog crap. Yeah. To being decent, to being, oh, no, this is a really solid system.

[B]

I could take anybody in the company, point them at it, and in two minutes Explain what it is, and they would immediately be able to see how they fit within that system.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

They go, there I am, I'm there. And then I could say, yeah, and see, this is where you fit. This is your specific role, task, and duty. It should also inform the hiring plan, and then it should also connect back to metrics, so there should be a clear through line into all of those things. And if the systems don't connect to the people and then connect to the metrics, which connect to the goals, if there's not a through line to all of those things and it's not a good system.

[A]

We have been struggling recently with the creation of scorecards and figuring out what metrics do we track, let alone who owns those metrics. Because from what we've been seeing as a team of six for guys, listen, if you're still listening to this point, like, you guys are either like, you're serious about this or you're running a company. For us, we had so much overlap where I'm like, both of you are in this world, like, it's difficult to say who owns this, like, which one of you owns what metric, and what metric should we even track? So we've been struggling with the creation of the scorecard and figuring out how to quantify things. Can you give some advice there?

[B]

Yeah. You go back to that business process map, what we call a value engine. So go back to the sticky notes. How do we know if this one is working and if it's not on there? And you build your scorecards based on those. And so it's not based on department or anything like that. It really is. If you're saying that podcasts are an aspect of what are the metrics that you attract to know if podcasts are working in a given month, I'm guessing monthly downloads would be a part of it.

[A]

And Instagram. Yeah.

[B]

Intro calls. So you would know.

[A]

But wouldn't that be a lag metric as opposed to a lead mag metric that you would track or.

[B]

I don't care.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't get. I don't get into. Everything is going to be a lag or a lead based on some kind of perception. Right. So if it's helpful to know, is this working, then that's fine. Right. That's all I need to know. Is this particular stage working? Are we doing this right now? We move on to the next one. And so we build our scorecards top to bottom that essentially tell a story of the customer journey moving left.

[A]

What do you mean, top to bottom?

[B]

So the, the scorecards, the metrics that are at the top of the scorecard are, are essentially going to be the metrics that would be at the start of the cycle. The flowchart.

[A]

Right. So that's like marketing and sales.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And then goes down to ops. Yeah.

[B]

And so you're essentially visualizing the flow, the customer journey through that. Because then it's really easy to see where's it getting stuck. Right. Where they getting gunk. Gunked up in that. So that's where. If it's not represented somewhere in one of those value engines, if there's not a sticky note associated with it, it's not necessarily a metric that I need to look at. And if it is a metric I need to look at, then my question is why isn't. Why didn't have a sticky note somewhere? It's not a stage that we're tracking. And so that's how you make sure that you're tracking meaningful metrics and not vanity metrics. And then in terms of who's going to own it. Yeah, you're right. There's going to be times where it's two people. I don't care. Flip a coin, throw a dart. But it needs to be one person. If it's multiple people, then nobody's responsible for it. And so whether you pick or you say you guys duke it out or flip a coin, I don't care. But one person needs to own it. The other person can be a secondary. When that person's on vacation, totally fine. But one person needs to own it.