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- [00:00]
A
Well, in this episode, Chloe Cole, detransitioner with a very interesting story is on. Then Andrew Hobson's got the news and we'll do that right after this. Thanks for tuning in to the Adam Carolla show. You can watch the full show on YouTube just search Adam Carolla show and hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also get the podcast wherever you like to listen. And for extra content ad free episodes and more, you can head over to our substack and sign up.
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A
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- [03:36]
B
Well, thanks a whole lot for welcoming me on the show. I'm really happy to be on, and I'm grateful that you're giving me your platform to be able to talk about my experiences. So. I'm somebody who has gone through the process of a medical and gender transition during my childhood. Between the ages of 12 to 16, I started believing that I was a boy at 12 years old, after years of just being a pretty ordinary tomboy, all things considered. I liked playing video games. I liked going out into the world and adventuring, but I was also very creative.
- [04:06]
A
But are you from Northern California?
- [04:09]
B
Yeah, I'm from. I'm from NorCal.
- [04:10]
A
Huh. Okay. And I'll just stop you along the way and shove in some questions. Anything unusual about your childhood?
- [04:21]
B
I mean, nothing was particularly different about me other than the fact that I was a little bit shy and I found it difficult to connect with other people for a pretty good portion of my life, actually. I just didn't really know how to. How to socialize with people. But I never really saw the things that made me different as things that took away from my character or my worth until around the time that I started to hit puberty, which was a little bit earlier than most. I was about 8 or 9 when I started to physically develop. And so there was, as you can imagine, a lot of uncomfortable attention that came with that. That I just. It made me very uncomfortable in my skin and.
- [04:59]
A
Yeah, no, I get it. I'm hearkening back to a girl that I believe when I was, like, in the sixth grade or something, got her period or something, and people made fun of her and. And I now think back on how terrifying that must have been for her, sitting in that class, just experiencing this before others. And you at 8 or 9, is very young to start puberty kicking in.
- [05:34]
B
Right? And I mean, being one of the first to develop in my class, both boys and girls and even sometimes teachers and adults outside of My family would comment on my. My curves or whatever else was happening to my body. And when you're at that age, it's. It's a lot more pressure than just to go through it normally, I think.
- [05:56]
A
Sure.
- [05:57]
B
And in this. In this day and age, you have. I mean, girls are growing up with. With so much pressure with. With social media, what they're seeing, these image. These very perfected images of grown women that they have to compare themselves to. And in the midst of all of that, I was like, I'm not even. I don't even feel like I'm that feminine. I don't like wearing makeup. I don't like the feminine things that a lot of other girls do. And I find that I relate a lot more to my older brothers. Why am I even going through this? What is. What is. What is the point of going through all this if I don't feel like I'm enough as a woman? So that feeling started very young, but I didn't actually believe that I was a young man or that I was something different until I was about 12 years of age.
- [06:39]
A
And I think a lot of people think that. I don't know, people get radicalized, for lack of a better term, but they get influenced by Hollywood or their parents or whoever, their gay uncle or something. But I don't know, I don't buy as much into that. Just like, I don't really buy you're too young. But they used to say this hard rock music makes kids violent, or these video games make people violent. I was sort of like, everyone I knew just sort of did what they did. There wasn't a lot of believing in being influenced by celebrity or music or video games or something like that. But you're in California and it's a lot more prevalent this subject than it would be if you were in Nebraska. And also, you're young. I mean, you got right in the. Right in the heart of it. If this is Nebraska and it's 40 years ago, it's probably not something that's even going through your mind. Or if it is, you just ignore it. Right. Because there's really nothing to do.
- [07:51]
B
I mean, this has become something of a global phenomenon, I would argue. And this is actually. I actually know a woman from Nebraska who went through all this at the same age. Not a little bit younger, actually, and came out with the same outcome.
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A
Well, I'll say it's more prevalent on the coast, I guess, than it is in the heartland.
- [08:10]
B
Say, I've. I've been. I've been to so many places across the U.S. now, speaking on legislation, speaking to different communities, speaking to churches as well as college campuses. And everywhere I've gone, I've met somebody who's either struggling with this or they know somebody who is struggling with it, but they don't know how to really help them. And I think what it really comes down to is Internet influence. I think that, sure, media and see, even sometimes one's family might be influencing them into questioning these things. But I think the. I think the most prominent influence in the lives of these children who become confused about their sex and about their bodies is the influence of the Internet. And that certainly was what it was for me. I didn't know that transgenderism was really a thing until I started using the Internet. And it far it started with pretty, pretty innocent, like, memes and like, connecting with other people across the world over, like, shared interest around things like rock music that I listened to or bands I liked or cartoons that I watched. But there was, I think now in a lot of what they call fan bases on the Internet, they've become very oriented around ideology and not just the interest around themselves, around not just the interest itself. Like in a lot of these communities now, it's filled with these young adults and these children even, who are focusing primarily on left wing ideology. It was through these communities where I first came to. To learn, like, to connect with other people around my interests that I started learning about things like feminism, about, like, queer theory. And then eventually I learned about transgenderism through these other kids who were. The thing that really drew me in the most was not just like, the novelty of these subjects, but knowing that these other kids were going through exactly what I was at that time, being confused about the changes of puberty and the discomfort that comes with that, and not really knowing who they were until they supposedly found their true selves through. Through the lens of transitioning.
- [10:09]
A
So now you're 12 or 13 and you're starting to consider seriously transitioning.
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B
Right? And it was never just one moment in time that I just immediately thought, okay, this is me. It was through peer influence, arguably, and seeing these other kids who were very similar to me in a lot of ways, not just superficially through our interests, but also in the. The things that they struggle with at home or mentally and these. Just the normal confusion that happens around people.
- [10:44]
A
I would say, how's the rest of your life working at that point? Are you playing sports? Are your grades okay? Do you have friends, your family unit intact?
- [10:55]
B
I mean, my grades were good, but I Was struggling to make friends at school. I had just moved to a new school and I was pretty much the odd one out at all times. And as much as I wanted to play sports, I was worried about, I wasn't a very coordinated kid. I didn't have a good relationship with my, with my body for the most part, in a lot of different ways. I was just, I was very sedentary and I was worried about the judgment that people would give me if I didn't play well on the team. So I just, I ruined myself. I shrunk. I didn't want to be a burden, but in doing so, I kind of denied myself of building an identity in a normal way. I think that a lot of kids do at that time, and that was what adds the confusion.
- [11:40]
A
So you start considering this transition notion. You're on the Internet, you're finding like minded people and there's a community. And what point do you speak about this to your parents or to a counselor, to a doctor or whomever?
- [12:00]
B
So after a period of kind of sitting with myself and asking myself questions like, who am I? Just going through these different labels like, oh, maybe, maybe I'm a lesbian, maybe I'm bisexual. And then eventually settling on just thinking that I was a boy because I always felt like I was more like my big brothers than my big sisters and the girls around me, I went through a period where I just didn't really tell anybody other than people who I knew on the Internet about it because I was really afraid of how people at school and people in my family would react about such a, such a big change in my life. And I wanted to start to change my appearance before I tried to convince the people around me that I was somebody else.
- [12:39]
A
Can I ask you a quick question?
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B
Sure.
- [12:42]
A
I never really thought about it, but when you say you considered, well, maybe I'm a boy, how does that manifest itself in terms of thought? Like I was supposed to be born a boy or God made a mistake, or I am a boy sort of in a female body. But as a boy, I'm trying to think how I reconcile that thought. Like I go, well, maybe I'm a girl? I would go, well, you're not any more than your dog or a cat. But what does that mean to go? Like, maybe I'm a boy?
- [13:27]
B
I mean, I guess it would help to put it into perspective by talking about the ideology that I was learning about from this community that claims that sex and gender are two different things, that sex is something that's not observed at Birth, but assigned to you just so happens to be assigned to you.
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A
I do love assignment. When you're born, I love assigned to you.
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B
And that gender is this internal sense of being either male or female or somewhere in between or out of those things.
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A
Right.
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B
And that some people just so happened to be born with a sense that they were in the wrong body and that those people. That presents as, like, distress around your body and wanting to be more like the opposite sex, either physically or behaviorally. And the only way for those people to become happy is by going down this particular lifestyle. And for a lot of them, this experimental, lifelong set of procedures. And so I thought, okay, well, I'm. I've always called myself a tomboy, but I've also always felt that maybe there was something else that was different about me. And the more that I go through puberty and the more I see my breast developing, the more judgment people give me for it, the more uncomfortable I feel with myself. So maybe. Maybe I'm not normal. Maybe I'm actually a man.
- [14:48]
A
Were you ever suicidal?
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B
I wasn't suicidal. No, I wasn't suicidal. I was lonely, I was depressed. But I was determined to find myself a better life. That was all that I wanted. But everything started to take a turn once I actually started to go down the medical route of things. That was when I became suicidal for the first time in my life.
- [15:08]
A
So you had to. Well, I don't know that you had to. It's California. Before you started to go down the medical route, did you have to have this discussion with your parents? Did they have to sign off on it? How is this as a minor? I'm guessing you can't just walk into a doctor's office and start getting puberty blockers. But I don't know. It's California.
- [15:36]
B
I mean, as long as you're under the jurisdiction of your parents, you still need to have parental sign off. But there are states working on laws that make it so that children can get around that. And I think there are also, in California, children can even run away from their parents and be under the jurisdiction of the state and be able to. Excuse me. Get a hold of these treatments. But I. At the time, I felt like my mom and dad deserved to know that I was going through this.
- [16:04]
A
Were you? And I knew that I wouldn't at this point.
- [16:07]
B
Yeah, well, it was just before my 13th birthday, about a month before, and I knew that I wouldn't really be able to get help for it if they didn't have any involvement. So I came Clean to them. I wrote a letter to them, and I think they actually were very sensible about it at the time and considering, like, how little information there was that was critical of this and really talked about what this actually does to a developing body. But they never believed I was transgender. They never believed that I was a boy, and they just saw me as their beautiful little tomboyish girl who was going through a rough time. But they also didn't know what was causing these feelings for me because they. I'm the youngest of five kids, and they never had to deal with this with any of my older brothers or sisters. So they thought, okay, this must be something psychological. There must be something that we don't see, and we are going to get professional help for this, which I think is. It's pretty. It's a pretty sane idea. But they. I don't think any parent going through this with their kid is going to be prepared for the fact that they are basically going to have to fight against institutions to get their. To really get their children help and keep them away, keep them out of harm's way.
- [17:18]
A
Yes. How would you describe your parents? Would you describe them? I mean, they sound pretty rational. They also sound a bit traditional, but they seem pretty reasonable, I guess. I would say a lot of parents would react differently.
- [17:39]
B
Yeah. My mom and dad. I would say they're pretty smart people. My mom is a nurse. My dad has worked in tech for pretty much his whole life, and they're not really particularly politically aligned. In fact, I would argue they're, like, quite a bit more left than I am. But that was never something that played a part in how they. And how they treated this. They just saw their daughter. They saw everything for what it is, and they wanted to get me help through this confusing part of my life.
- [18:07]
A
Yeah. And this is where the system gets really confusing. And I think we'll probably get into that as we're about to. But I can tell you, we just went through it with COVID Every Dr. Fauci and every expert was telling everybody to get vaccinated. And I don't blame the moms sitting at home watching CNN, seeing all these experts. He's the head of the CDC, and he's the head of the WHO and this leading expert, Dr. Sanjay Guptan, they're telling you get your kid, and you're just sitting there going, well, that's what the experts are saying. When my kid. And part of it is a money grab and a scam. But here's what I'm saying, and it's nothing like what you went through, but all the mechanisms are the same. My son was born. The doctor said, I see a little asymmetry in his skull. It might be a little off. And of course, I, being me, go, hey, it looks fine. But my wife goes, what do you mean, asymmetry in the skull? Well, it may not shape the plates or whatever. And he's like, of course. My wife's immediately concerned, right? And so he goes, I'll tell you what, why don't we just set you up with an expert? The expert will come out, and they'll take some measurements and do a scan, and then we'll figure out, let them do it. Next thing you know, you're at the expert. Then the expert's examining my son. Oh, yeah, I could see this. Literally said his glasses might not sit right on his head. $5,000 later, we had a plastic helmet that we're supposed to strap on the kid's head. We put it. It was supposed to be on for, like, 23 hours a day for like, a year. It's insane. We strapped it on one night for about an hour. He's never stopped crying, took the helmet off, threw it away, and now he's 19. His head looks perfect. But the whole point is, I'm not buying into it, but I can't fight city hall. We got an expert. We got a mom who's scared. We got a kid who's crying. And all I can do is step back and go. And by the way, they throw the expert at you. They go, this person's an expert, and this is what they think. Now, who are you? And then the system kicks in. And I don't know if that was the sort of version that happened with you or not, but I'm telling you, it exists everywhere, right?
- [20:43]
B
And it's only natural that we want to trust these people who have dedicated huge chunks of their lives to studying their area of focus. They have a degree on the wall, and they're in very important positions. So we want to be able to trust them. But we're unfortunately, at a point in time where our institutions, and especially our medical institutions, have placed ideology over actually caring for patients. And that presents itself in so many different ways, like the over diagnosis of mental health conditions and over prescription of, like, amphetamines and such for conditions that a lot of kids arguably don't even have, and which also had happened to me with the diagnosis of ADHD and being put on varying adult male doses of varying drugs over the years, which, I mean, I could talk all day about. But when you're faced with these people as a parent who promise to do no harm to your child, to help in raising your child through either something, something mental, that there's something psychiatric that they're struggling with, or maybe they have the condition supposedly with their bodies. And the only option that they're giving you in this case with me and my parents was transition or death. That's terrifying.
- [22:07]
A
How did you find the therapist?
- [22:11]
B
So it was through my healthcare provider at the time, Kaiser Permanente.
- [22:15]
A
So you told your parents. Your parents are like, maybe a little dubious, but like, okay, we'll seek the advice of an expert.
- [22:26]
B
They thought it over for a little bit. And part of the reason why I wrote them a letter was because I just wanted to give them some time to think it over before we all talked together as a family. And in the background they started doing their research because they knew next to nothing about this, frankly. I mean, I think it was like Bruce had recently transitioned to Caitlyn at the time and that was about the extent their knowledge on it.
- [22:51]
A
Right.
- [22:51]
B
But they wanted to know more about this and why possibly a child would even be thinking about it. And everything pointed them in direction of get psychiatric intervention or care for your child as soon as possible. And they thought, okay, so what care is going to look like for her in a medical setting is they're going to look at all the underlying factors that might be leading to this or going to rule anything out and they're going to help her deal with this and cope with these feelings in an age appropriate way and help her build her identity without anything, anything permanent happening. But it was the very opposite. It was like there was this huge rush to get me, maybe what I wanted at the time, naively, but not really focus on the actual problems and what I needed.
- [23:40]
A
Right.
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B
So everything.
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A
They found a therapist through Kaiser?
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B
Yes.
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A
And you went and visited the therapist with your family or did you go alone?
- [23:54]
B
So, I mean, these appointments were, I think per. Even California law, were just between me and the psychologist. And they're, I think from the age of 12, children are considered to be, they're, they're considered to be emancipated in the healthcare system when it comes to at least their mental health records. So my mom and dad couldn't like get a glimpse into what was happening. They were never being followed up with about what was actually being talked about in the appointments. And what was really happening, at least with this first therapist, was that I was being told, okay, well cool, your Your name is Leo and you're. You're a boy. And we're gonna. We're gonna give you. We're gonna go along with that, but we're not gonna question it.
- [24:38]
A
A male or female.
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B
It was. It was a man. But I only. I only saw him for about a month before I end up being. I guess he like, went out of the system or something. I ended up being transferred to another psychologist. But he didn't really do. None of these people really did much for me. And my mom and dad could see from the outside that even though I was going to therapy, I wasn't really getting better by any metric.
- [24:56]
A
Well, okay, so they looked at their job as a therapist to sort of expedite this transition versus sit there and really try to get to the root of what was going on with you psychologically.
- [25:13]
B
I mean, that's how they. That's. That's how they used to be trained to look at the root of the problem and to look at the person as a whole rather than just focusing on their. On their gender. But now it's completely flipped. And psychologists, and really any medical professional are trained such as that they're supposed to be focusing on affirmation of these feelings and of the supposed patient's identity and referring them to services to try and affirm that as soon as possible. Yes, particularly medical resources like drugs and surgeries. And that was really the focus of it for me. Even I was getting frustrated at the time because it was like I had real problems that were going on at school with being bullied and not being able to make friends that were just not really being focused on. And my mom and dad watching from the outside were like, okay, we're getting really frustrated with this. We are going to talk to the doctors ourselves and get to the bottom of this. And as soon as they did that, the one thing that they were told over and over again was that this was not a choice for me, that it was not a phase. I was not going to outgrow it, that I was born a boy on some level, and it was going to be. They were going to have to choose between letting me persist in this feeling without intervention and eventually become so distressed about my sex that I would become at risk for suicide and take my own life, or they could affirm me in this. They could accept me as their son and allow me to go on this permanent medical pathway of treatment. And they would never have said yes to the latter or any of that in a million years if it weren't for the fact that my life wasn't threatened, they weren't given any other option. They weren't given the sane option of, let's take a step back. Let's help her. Let's see. Let's assess what is really going on and help her through that while letting her grow up like any other kid.
- [27:19]
A
Yeah, you know, it's kind of weird. And the left does this a lot. They. They glom onto these sayings or isms, you know, and then so what somebody says is, you know, would you like a dead daughter or living son? And you go. And they go, well, that's the option. You know what I mean? And they go, well, first off, who signed off on that? Like, they'll just go, walls don't keep people out. They keep people in. And then everyone goes, oh, yeah, I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Walls keep people out of places all the time. All the places you don't want people to come in, there's a wall. But they do these idioms, and people go, oh, well, yeah, I would rather have a living son than a dead daughter. And they do this. They do it with everything. They go, these immigrants, they come here and they contribute more than the average American. You go, wow, that's true. But I don't know what they're basing it on. You mean people that don't pay taxes contribute more than people who do pay taxes? What are you talking about? But they lay stuff out, they get it going, people nod their head, and then the next thing you know, it, like, infects everybody. And so then the experts who are infected say to the parents, would you like to your living son or a dead daughter? And they go, oh, I don't. I don't want a dead daughter. And they go, okay, we'll sign this. And we're off and running. And at some point, it all gets debunked at some point. But when you're in it, you believe it, right?
- [29:01]
B
And especially at the time. This was almost 10 years ago, now that I think about it, when my. My family and I were going through this, and the culture has just completely shifted from what it was then. And there was so much more awareness on the other side of this issue. But that it's that mantra of living son versus dead daughter that is used by medical professionals to really rope parents in and make them feel like they have no other choice but to do this. Because the very biggest fear that any mother, any father could have about their child is threatened by the way there is nobody wants to outlive their own child.
- [29:41]
A
There was no statistical data that suggested that that was true. Just like they didn't have anything with COVID either, but they just took off running with it. And like I said, that's one thing if the ladies from the View are doing it, but it's another thing when established physicians, psychologists, psychiatrists, the medical establishment is doing it, you don't expect them
- [30:06]
B
to do it, right? I mean, a lot of medical professionals are a lot more, I guess, separated from the world than they even realize. A lot of them might not even realize that they're in this left wing ideological bubble. A lot of them in these training sessions, when they're told, affirm, affirm, affirm. And that's how they teach these medical students to handle these vulnerable young people.
- [30:26]
A
Now you have to think about if you would like to be like, the clearest thinking people I know are people who didn't go to college. Trade people are the clearest thinking people I know. But the ones who went to college for four years got their brain scrambled a little bit. But the longer you stay in college, the more you get your brain scrambled. And if you want to be a doctor, you got to spend a lot of time on campus. And so now you're getting a community that is steeped in college, you know, and so you're gonna get a different ideology and things will be politicized.
- [31:05]
B
And I think, unfortunately, I'm observing exactly that playing out with my own peers. And as I've been touring across college campuses for, I think, the last three years now, I've noticed that so many of them have been so focused on only one side of the aisle on pushing out any dissenting narratives, even, like, trying to make it so that it's either incredibly difficult or impossible for me to even speak on campus. And they've basically become indoctrination machines. They're no longer institutions of. They're no longer these bastions of truth and education and research as they once were. And it's incredibly frustrating to see them as they are now because for a lot of people, I think that, I mean, you often. I feel like so many people, there's this other mantra of, oh, college is just a scam and nobody should go. And, well, I mean, I've personally chosen not to go to college. I don't think that I will be for the foreseeable future. But I mean, there's so many people out there who will have to go. They'll have to get a degree depending on what career that they want. And we can't just let these institutions rot. We have to challenge them and make them a better place for most people who to make it so that they're back to the respected institutions that they once were.
- [32:24]
A
Agreed. So you now will pick up your story. You're seeing therapists, and they're basically all sort of heading one direction. And now it's time for treatment. Right. So how does that manifest itself?
- [32:47]
B
So after my mom and dad were told this, not just once, but over and over again, that it was basically a matter of life or death for me and then my diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
- [32:59]
A
Did you ever. Sorry. Express that you were suicidal to anybody?
- [33:03]
B
No. So I actually was not present, I don't think, for this. And they were telling this to my mom and dad behind my back without me telling anybody that I was suicidal. Maybe I said that I was depressed, but I wanted to just be happy. I didn't want to die. I wanted to live. And I wanted to live more than ever.
- [33:19]
A
Right. So they expressed this to your parents and now it's time to start treatment.
- [33:25]
B
So, yes, we were referred to an endocrinologist. And about halfway through my eighth grade year was when I was given the first two prescriptions. So they gave me a drug called Lupron, which is considered to be a puberty blocking drug. It stops the. It stops the connection between the brain and the gonads. So the. So I stopped having menses. I stopped developing completely while I was on them. And because I was already in puberty, I basically started to experience menopause. So at 13 years old, I was going through hot flashes. I was going through these, like, uncomfortable physical sensations and I just felt emotionally numb while I was on, on them. So you can imagine it's like, okay, I want to move on to the next thing because this sucks. I want to be off of this train. I want to be on to the next thing already and be who I've been told I am supposed to be. And about a month after that, I got my first shot of testosterone. And I took injections every, every, every week for about three, almost three and a half years. And over time, I started to look more and more like a young man. My, my facial structure, my bone structure started to become a little bit more chiseled. I started develop a lot more muscle. I started developing even like a little bit of facial hair. And like just the hair everywhere on my body, like from my legs to my arms, even on the top of my head. My eyebrows just became like so much thicker. I've always had like very naturally thin hair. So it was kind of an exciting change actually. And it was like, okay, so I'm starting to look like a young man. My voice is getting really deep. My voice sounds pretty feminine now, I think. But at a certain point in time, I actually had a deeper voice in almost all my male peers. It was kind of impressive actually.
- [35:15]
A
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- [38:35]
B
I mean, puberty is the only process through which a child can fully mature into an adult, not just physically and sexually, but also psychologically and socially. It's arguably one of the most important periods of development and identity formation. And we're taking that away from these children who are, by the way, generally perfectly physically healthy. And the issue is not their body, but a psychological issue that they're experiencing. We're using physical treatments for that.
- [39:06]
A
So you get off the puberty blockers and get onto testosterone.
- [39:10]
B
So I was on the blockers for about a year alongside testosterone, and it was just, they put me on it for the purpose of clearing out my
- [39:17]
A
hormones
- [39:20]
B
and making way for the new exogenous male hormones.
- [39:24]
A
I'm sorry, who's paying for this?
- [39:26]
B
So in California, these treatments are required to be paid by insurance companies. And basically all my mom and dad had to pay was like about like 50, $100 per for co pays for appointments, and that was it. So the state is actually in a way incentivizing families to go through this because when they're like, they're being told, okay, this is life saving care, so it must be expensive, right? Oh, well, this completely paid off and it helps my child, so why wouldn't I go on this?
- [39:53]
A
Right? Yeah. And you have any idea how much it would cost if it was coming out of pocket?
- [40:01]
B
I think the lifetime costs go from anywhere from. It depends on the treatments that you're getting. Like for the individual surgeries, it can be anywhere from like 5,000 to, I think like 50,000. And so for some people it's like upwards of like 100,000 to for those who like go all in on the cosmetics, even like potentially millions.
- [40:22]
A
Yeah. And that's the surgeries. Right. But then there's all the Medications which, like, once you're.
- [40:27]
B
Once you've already been castrated, once your sex organs have already been removed and your body can't function on its own, you're dependent on hormone administration for life. Even if you detransition, a lot of detransitioners will have to. Who've already, like, been through sex reassignment will have to be on testosterone or estrogen for life because their bodies can no longer produce it in the amount that they need to support themselves.
- [40:55]
A
So you're on testosterone. You do the puberty blockers. Early menopause sets in. Crazy. And when are we talking about surgery?
- [41:09]
B
So I started the drugs while I was in middle school. And socially, I was at a point in time where, like, people were actually confused. Like, I told nobody about this in school. And so it just went from one day. I was, like, looking like pretty much any other girl, maybe, like, with shorter hair. And then over the course of a few weeks, I started to. My voice started deepening. I started to look more like the opposite sex. And I just. I opted not to tell anybody about and just go into high school. And that would be when. I mean, once I went to my freshman year, I pretty much looked and sounded like any other boy my age. And I went through most of my high school career being perceived as a young man with most people other than those who went to school with me before, having no clue who I actually was. And so I was actually accepted amongst my peers as a young man. And even though I thought that I was happy for a while.
- [42:08]
A
Mm.
- [42:09]
B
I mean, I was really starting to feel the burden of all this on my shoulders, because I knew even deep down that I was lying to everybody around me and even myself. And every day at school, I would come back home, I would take off this binder, this compression device. I would, like, squish my breasts into my body to make it look like they weren't there. And I'd still see, no matter how hard I tried, I still was a woman. And that it was kind of a futile effort. And that was what made me start to think about surgery, because I was like, okay, my body is. Well, maybe the problem isn't the transition itself. I just need to go further into it so I can be truly happy and never have to think about this ever again. And at 15 years old, that was when I went under the knife to remove my breasts.
- [42:48]
A
15. Were you having crushes on boys or girls or sort of normal young girl thoughts about boyfriends or dances or going steady or whatever? It Was. I mean, I could kind of remember being a young man and just having sort of wild crushes on girls in classes and not having the courage to go talk to him and her. But my mind was always like, oh, my God. Oh, look at her. She's so cute. Did the medication suppress those kinds of thoughts?
- [43:25]
B
So, I mean, I've always been straight, and for when I was growing up, I was pretty boy crazy. I had all sorts of crushes on celebrities, on classmates, and I don't think the drugs really, really suppressed that. It was definitely socially awkward. It was kind of an awkward to be in. Kind of an awkward role to be in, considering I was trying to pass myself off as a guy. So I just. I never got myself involved with. With men during that point in time or anybody, because I knew I had this feeling of like, I mean, I'm a little young to be getting into this kind of thing. And I also. I feel like I'm going to disappoint somebody if they expect that I'm one thing and I actually have the body of the other, and I'm not going to put that on somebody else. But it was actually when I realized that this was all stuff that I was being put through too young and that one day I wanted to become a mother. I wanted to become a wife and have children of my own naturally. And I had lost a significant part of my sexuality before I even had my first kiss, before I could even drive a car. That made me go, this needs to end now. This is something that's taking away adult parts of my life before I've even grown up yet.
- [44:49]
A
So you have the top surgery scheduled for at 15. You're in the 10th grade or 9th grade or whatever you are at 15.
- [44:59]
B
It was just after my sophomore year. Yeah.
- [45:02]
A
And are your parents at that point going, maybe we should pump the brakes on this a minute or delay it a bit? Or how are they? What's their posture?
- [45:13]
B
My mom and dad were actually very critical. They were very critical towards the doctors and when they would suggest medical treatment. But every single time they would bring up their concerns, they weren't just ignored, but they were told, it's life or death for your kid.
- [45:30]
A
Right.
- [45:31]
B
If you don't do this for them, if you don't do this for her,
- [45:34]
A
she's going to die or going to college.
- [45:38]
B
I mean, that fear can override, I think, any common sense for anybody. And I don't blame my mom and dad.
- [45:44]
A
No, look, first off, if your kid said, I want to transition, I get this Top surgery. And you just put your foot down and said, absolutely not. And at some point you came home and your kid had killed themselves. You would never get over it. You would blame yourself. So you get top surgery. And I don't even know how it works exactly. You can tell me.
- [46:14]
B
So the mastectomy, the way they went about it and they described it in almost very simplified detail to me to make it more palatable for a 15 year old going into surgery. And what they told me they were going to do was, okay, we are going to make an incision into each breast and then we are going to take the tissue out and leave a little bit in for contouring purposes. But we're also going to take your areolas, the skin around your nipples, and we are going to basically cut that and make it so that it's in and like paste it onto a part of the chest to make it into a more masculine appearance and positioning. And I mean, I feel like to any, any adult with common sense, that already sounds pretty, pretty gory. And it's a very, it's a very typical, It's a.
- [47:06]
A
All of this to go through it all sounds kind of ghoulish to me. Like, if I was a surgeon, you know, people get into professions thinking they're gonna do one thing and sometimes end up doing another. You know, like they. Sometimes people go, I'm gonna be a cop so I can save lives and make a difference. The next thing you know, you're writing chicken shit tickets to housewives. You know what I mean? That's sort of your lot.
- [47:29]
B
But it didn't help that it was so matter of fact about it. And they use these cute terms like top surgery and bottom surgery to make it sound like it's less scary than it actually is.
- [47:38]
A
I'm just saying, like, your average surgeon thinks he's gonna be on some ship helping kids from Africa with their cleft palate or something, and now you're just mutilating healthy bodies. I mean, I don't know how they had wrapped their. I couldn't wrap my mind around that if I was a surgeon. They're obviously insanely well trained, but yet they're now using this to mutilate young men and women.
- [48:04]
B
I mean, his attitude around it seemed to be so nonchalant both before and after the surgery. I asked him a year I detransitioned, I think, and a consultation I had with him because I was actually having, having complications from the, the grafts that he made that were just not healing. They they start bleeding. They. I start having other. Other issues with them. And I couldn't help but meekly ask him at the. At the time, why. Why would you do this to me? And he was very. He was very blunt. He was very matter of fact, again in his response of, well, I thought it was okay because you had another doctor sign off on this. Yeah, there's no. There's no. There's no critical thinking on the part of these doctors who. Who do this. They just think, okay, this is the standard. This is what I've been trained to do. And somebody else signed off on it, so it must be okay. They're not. And I can understand what leads to that mentally, because especially when you're a surgeon, you have to kind of separate the human being from the body. Otherwise, you're just thinking about the fact that you're cutting into flesh all the time. But you can't let that override your instincts and your judgment as a doctor and as an adult.
- [49:27]
A
So you get the top surgery. You're on testosterone. When does it start? You're going through high school as a boy. There's no relationships to have, I imagine. When does it start to dawn on you that maybe this was a phase versus a lifestyle?
- [49:55]
B
I think the loneliness was the first thing that made me start to question everything. It was watching my peers start to go through relationships of their own with each other and then eventually learning a little bit more about, I think, just the human mind in general, but the way that we connect with other people and how the mind develops from infancy to adulthood and the importance of love in that process and psychology class of mine. That led to me realizing more and more this is taking away some of the most human parts of my life. And the further I go in, the more that I deny myself of all that. And I can't keep going in this. It was about a year, 11 months, actually, after surgery. It wasn't even a year yet when one night I just broke down crying. I think a few weeks before that, I had just had a lesson to my class about breastfeeding and the importance of that and the bond between a mother and your child. And I just had this moment after finishing that lesson where I looked down at my chest and I could just. I was wearing a shirt, but I could visualize the scars. And then I imagined still having breasts and having a newborn and being able to nurse my child. And that broke me. After thinking about that, I couldn't function for a long time. I couldn't forgive myself. I couldn't forgive my doctors. And I thought my life was over at 16. I thought that I wasn't even going to make it to adulthood and that I was already ruined.
- [51:44]
A
Was there a fantasy? Well, maybe not even a fantasy, but was there a plan to go, well, I'm just going to become a man and then I'll date women as a man?
- [51:59]
B
I mean, I never really thought about women in that way. Sometimes I would feel curiosity towards women romantically. But I mean, part of that was the influence of the testosterone, the way that it just like flares your sex drive, which is another like wildly inappropriate part of this for me to be going on it at 13 years old. But I knew that I would always be attracted to men and I would always want a husband and I wouldn't really want things any other way. But it was also that that led to me realizing this is not really, maybe it's not the most natural or the easiest way for me to live either, because, well, if I get married and I have kids, well, what are my kids gonna call me? So the dad's gonna be dad, but am I gonna be mom? Am I gonna be dad? It doesn't feel natural either way. And what about, how am I going to teach this kids about this in a way that won't lead to confusion later in adulthood for that?
- [53:05]
A
Yeah, for me, when I think about this stuff, I'm like, all right, so you're not going to be a girl anymore, you'll become a boy. But then what? How good is your life going to be? I mean, I sometimes think, what if I decided to be a woman? And then I think it'd be horrible. I'd be a horrible woman. Like, I'd walk weird, people would know I wouldn't be an attractive. I could never be a great looking version of this thing that I wasn't. And then who would I date? What about life after the transition? You know what I mean? Everyone just goes, well, once you're a woman with a male trapped inside you, and then once we let him out, then you just have a rosy future. But it's like, no, it seems like there's going to be trouble. Just like a life of trouble. Not to mention all the things you've ingested and have to constantly ingest along the way that are changing all the biology.
- [54:07]
B
I think there is a systemic failure in really realistically talking about this in the doctor's office on both the part of the patient having difficulty really reflecting on where the real problems lie and also on the doctors doing the same thing, but reinforcing it. And when you're about to make really any lifelong change, you have to be realistic with yourself. You have to, when you're, if you're thinking about going down this route, which it is permanent, once you've gone down, once you've lived years as the opposite sex socially, or if you do the drugs or have the surgeries, there is no reversing that, even if you choose to detransition. And you have to think about the permanence of it. But you also have to really, really think about how it's going to age for you, because the way that you, that transition plays out is going to change over the course of a year, five years, 10 years, over the decades of your life. And. But when you look at the long term outcomes of these treatments, It doesn't age well. The women who get their uteruses removed and they go into early menopause, well, then they're at risk of things like prolapses or developing very early onset dementia. The men who go on these treatments over a long period of time, they are at risk of male breast cancer, prostate cancer, testicular cancer. And that's not just, that's not even going into the physical consequences of being completely sterile. It's not just about whether you're able to have kids, but you're not able to have healthy sexual function, which is a very important part for adulthood, for almost everybody. And when you're doing this to children, the younger that you go, the worse the consequences are when you start these treatments. Before a certain age, a child will never be able to sexually develop or have kids of their own. And children just do not, they do not have the developmental maturity or worldly experience to be able to really, truly sit down with themselves and ask, do I really want this for myself? I know I do.
- [56:27]
A
Yeah, they don't have the capacity to do it. I've said many times, like when I was 15, when I was 15 or 16, if someone said, look, I will guarantee that you can play in the NFL for eight years, but you're gonna die at 40, I'd go, give me that, I'll sign that. I'm doing a second. Because 40 seemed a long ways away and the NFL seemed like a pretty good dream. I would have signed a lot of stuff. I would have made tons of horrible. I would have signed many contracts when I was 15 and like I said, died 40, I would have went fine, who cares? I'd be an old man. You just don't really have the capacity to think down over the horizon and you do stupid things. When I was 19, I just rode a motorcycle with a bald tire. I'd ride it in the rain. I didn't care. I was 19. I never really thought about ever being old. So the notion that we're doing this with people of that age is criminal to me, really. But for you, in the short time we have left, you get the top surgery. Is there a bottom surgery in the waiting plans? I mean, are we going full monty here or what are we doing?
- [58:03]
B
I think as naive as I was and as young as I was at the time, I knew that I did not want to go through that process. I knew that it was experimental and that it would never actually make me to the opposite sex. So I thought, okay, I'm not, it's, it's not worth the risk. As much as I wish I didn't have what I, what I, what I have, I am not going to do that to myself. And thankfully I opted to get out of it before I went to any further change. And I mean, compared to a lot of my friends, I've managed to come out relatively unscathed.
- [58:37]
A
Well, the top surgery is regrettable, but the bottom surgery would have to be a catastrophe. I mean, in terms of what that is involved with that, you know, one is, you know, cosmetic plus, but the other would just be a complete. As much as you probably wish you never got the top surgery, not getting the bottom surgery, that is a huge bullet dodged.
- [59:06]
B
I would say yes. And I've lost a lot. I've grieved a lot. I wish that I didn't miss out on such a critical period of my life. But I'm grateful that I didn't lose more because I've seen just how bad it can get. And I still have so much of my life ahead of me. And I've realized over the years I'm not alone. And I could use my experience to help other children and help other families in need as well as bring more national awareness around this. And what is actually happening in our hospital systems.
- [59:40]
A
What percentage of people regret it? Not necessarily detransition, but just sort of, if they had a magic wand and they're now 25 or 30, they'd undergone the surgeries and the hormonal therapies and things like that. What percentage, you may never know, but you may take a guess, would say, I wish I was just back at 15 and never even went down that road.
- [60:08]
B
So right now we don't really have proper statistics on this because while A lot of the studies that are conducted around it don't really have standardized definitions of things like detransition or even regret itself. And they'll actively exclude people like me from participating in these surveys and in these studies, so they can't even get the numbers that they would actually need. And that is on purpose, of course. Sure, the. The most commonly cited statistic is about 0.3 to about 1%, but where that actually comes from is a survey where people were incentivized to take it to win, like a gift card or something. So it's already, I mean, you're already biasing what kind of answers you're going to get from that alone. But I mean, to speak a little bit more broadly to my own experience, I. And to that of many, something that's universal amongst detransitioners is that many of us are already too traumatized to go back to the same doctors who did this to us. And they don't follow up with this. So they don't know. Or even if they do know, they don't care to report it. I tried with every single doctor that I had at that time, both those who were involved with my transition, even just like my primary care physician, to get my sex marker changed back, get my name changed back, to put on file that I regretted my transition and I was going back to my. To embracing my God, given our birth identity. And I still get letters from Kaiser. I still got mail sent home and emails calling me Mr. Leo.
- [61:40]
A
Yeah, you know, it's kind of the establishment. It's like, sorry to keep going back to Covid, but everybody who died in a motorcycle accident during COVID they just stamped Covid as the cause of death. You know, they're so easily corruptible. It's kind of eye opening and wildly disappointing. You kind of got it. You know, when I was young, they'd run these hidden camera scams. Or like old people would pull their RV into a transmission shop and then they'd show the guy sabotaging the transmission and then saying to the old couple, it's gonna be $8,000. And you go, that guy's a scumbag, but he's a transmission mechanic. You know what I mean? I didn't know doctors would do this. And that's essentially what they're doing, right?
- [62:31]
B
You would expect the same people who do this to you to be able to help you back out of it. But I mean, on a, on a systemic level, there's nothing that even. There's no guidance even for the Doctors. So without any codes, any billing codes, without any standards of care, without even any mention of the possibility of regret or detransition for these treatments. And the way that these doctors are trained, they think, well, this is something that is statistically very unlikely and probably like a huge anomaly if it does happen. So they just look at patients like me and they kind of just like sit and scratch their head because it's like, well, we're going to be continuing the experiment if we do anything about this. And a lot of them don't want to be liable for that.
- [63:11]
A
Are you on any medication now?
- [63:16]
B
Not currently. I don't even know if I'm kind of afraid frankly of starting any new medication just after my experiences.
- [63:27]
A
And is there any medication for detransitioning?
- [63:32]
B
Well, I mean, if I got, if my body was at the point where it couldn't produce hormones on its own, I would have to be taking estrogen for life basically. But I mean, thankfully I have, I seem to be healthy enough. I still have some, some complications that are, that really significantly affect my quality of life. But I mean, there's so little unknowns on the long term effects of these treatments that doctors don't even know really what to do for people like me. And I'm determined to change that. I don't know how, but I want to make sure that there's more. There is so much more research on this and that more measures are being made to protect kids from going through this as well.
- [64:13]
A
Are you having a relationship? Are you able to have relationships?
- [64:17]
B
I remember thinking at 16 years old, after really realizing the weight of losing my breasts, it's so over for me. I am never going to be able to have a boyfriend. I am ugly forever. Nobody wants a scarred woman. I'm just damaged goods. I've been perfectly fine.
- [64:35]
A
I haven't had attractive, young and attractive, so I would imagine guys being guys.
- [64:43]
B
But I mean, I was so insecure for so long, I just thought there was no picking up my life. But I've become determined to show other people in the same situation. There's life after transition. And no matter what you've been through, whether it is detransitioning or addiction or any point in your life that's made you feel broken, you can use that same story to help other people. Just put yourself out there because you don't know what you are capable of.
- [65:10]
A
Well, ironically, sort of strange twist of fate, you now have a purpose.
- [65:17]
B
I had that sense of purpose that I was looking for all along through transitioning that I actually found by using the things that I used to not be able to accept about myself to help other people through that same process.
- [65:32]
A
And what is the feedback? Is it. We're living in such a crazy time? I mean, you alluded to it a little earlier, going to college campuses. Is there a lot of pushback?
- [65:44]
B
It gets crazy sometimes. It gets really, really wild. It's been that way from the very beginning. Even before I started speaking publicly, I was ostracized from the transgender community for the sole fact that I no longer identified as transgender. And I was looked at as a traitor rather than somebody who needed help, somebody who was hurt by this thing that we were all going through. And so I knew going into this, people are really going to hate me for this. But I wasn't deterred. The first time that I ever spoke in a legislature, I got tripped by a transgender person who was sitting in front of me while I was walking back from my seat.
- [66:26]
A
Physically tripped?
- [66:28]
B
Yes. He stuck out of his foot so that I would fall over. And I've had so many. I've had so many things happen since then. I've had people chasing me down in state houses. I've had to call security for events because people have, like, called in bomb threats and threatened to kill me. I regularly get people telling me, you should die. You should kill yourself. You should. You should hang yourself, or, I am going to kill you. And even sending, like, physical hate mail to my home and threatening my family.
- [66:54]
A
Yes. I want to ask you, though, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask. There's all this transgender violence and school shootings and things of that nature, and the press is always trying to suppress all that kind of stuff because everything is Klan and white nationalists are creating all the violence because they're liars. But it would stand to reason to me that if you're undergoing all this hormonal therapy and you're injecting yourself and taking all these pharmaceuticals, your brain's gotta be just sort of all over the road. And something like a school shooting would seem much more plausible to someone whose brain was kind of swimming in chemicals versus just, you know, an average teen hitting puberty. Do you have thoughts on that?
- [67:49]
B
Yeah. I mean, having been on these drugs myself, I know just how disorienting it is, and I know just how much it can twist your mind, just being told that this is going to make you happy, and then it just distorting you further and further. It's not an easy process to go through, especially when you're young and you don't know who you are yet. And I feel like on either side, there's, there's, the people are very black and white about this. There's the, a lot of the mainstream media is trying to suppress those incidents of these transgender shooters and not make the obvious connection between their mental health issues leading to their transition and then the tragedy that unfolds from that point on. And then there's the people who, of course, are just immediately dismissing them as, oh, they're just, they're crazy and they just have mental illness. And I think while that is true, I think the bigger picture is that there is a systemic failure on the part of these individuals to be able to figure out their real problems. And then the doctors worsening that, and then the mainstream media by choosing to uphold the ideology rather than question it and its role and these violent incidents is continuing that. And if we want to move forward, if we want to prevent violence, we all have to come together. No matter where we stand on this issue or politically, we have to have an honest, open discussion about this and face the real problems behind this increasing incidence of transgender violence.
- [69:32]
A
I agree. A good note to go out on an open dialogue, Chloe, where shall I send people? Website.
- [69:40]
B
Chloe Cole Yeah, I have a website with all my socials linked on it. It's chewcole.com, c-h o o o three o's in the middle. C o l e dot com.
- [69:51]
A
Thanks for the dialogue, Chloe.
- [69:53]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [69:59]
A
O'Reilly Auto Parts. Yeah, I love me some O'Reilly Auto Parts. Oh, oh, oh, O'Reilly. They're in the business of keeping your car on the road. Oh, man. There are not many car issues I can't figure out, but if I'm stumped, I always go with O'Reilly immediately. They've got thousands of parts in stock, either in store or online, so you never have to worry if you're in a jam. They'll also test your battery for free. And if it needs to be replaced, they'll help you find the right one. They're not all the same. So whether you're a car aficionado or an auto novice, you'll see the employees at O'Reilly Auto Parts are helpful and friendly. O'Reilly is your one stop shop for all things auto. Do it yourself. Am I right, Dawson? Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit us at O'ReillyAuto.com Adam that's O'ReillyAuto.com Adam at Marathon Gas stations. Every stop is the start of fun, like the awesome fuel savings you're gonna get with marathon rewards. Join marathon rewards today and start earning rewards on every gallon of gas. You can redeem rewards at any time, saving up to $1 per gallon. That adds up. And don't forget, marathon stations are packed with all the conveniences you need to stock up on to live life on the go marathon, where the fun runs on full available at participating marathon locations. Terms and conditions apply. See marathonrewards.com for details. It's time to check Adam's voicemail. Ace, man. Full disclosure. Sometimes I do a deep leg cross just because it feels good on the old nut sack. Love the show, brother. Keep good fighting the good fight. Get it on. Get it on. Get it. You can leave us a message at 888-634-1744. Yeah, well, it's funny. I wanted to get into some deep lake crossing before Andrew gets into his news, which is you guys. I think everyone thinks I'm weird, but I don't. Everything stands for something. There's a reason. There's a kind of. There's a reason for everything. And some of it is, like, economics. And one time, I remember one time I said to somebody, why did we switch from regular iced tea to passion fruit iced tea? Because I don't fucking like it. And I don't know anyone who orders iced tea who wants passion fruit iced tea. But we decided in March of 2004 just to make the leap. Like, we're just. And then you'd go to restaurants and you'd go, could I have some iced tea? And they go, passion fruit, okay. And I'd go, no, I want regular iced tea. And they go, we could take teabags and put them in hot water and then freeze it. And I'm like, or you could give me what happened to iced tea. And then somebody explained to me that the passion fruit. Something about not. It's lasted longer. They didn't have to clean it as much or something. I'm totally convinced with this and these fucking cherry tomatoes that nobody likes. All skin. All leather skin and pus. And they start. Because I think these things will last in a basket in your refrigerator for seven months versus a beefsteak tomato, which is good for four days or whatever it is. There's an economic thing that drives it. And then dumb people go, oh, I like the cherry tomatoes because this one's called a ruby Grand Beautiful. And it's so cute. And this and the other one, the passion fruit iced tea. Has the word passion in it, so it sounds cool. Okay. By the way, you notice we got rid of the passion fruit iced tea. It's not really around anymore, so it
- [74:13]
C
wasn't an organic push. Somebody was tipping the scale.
- [74:17]
A
Yeah. And then nobody liked it, really. But anyway. Okay, here's my point. Gavin Newsom and his leg crossing. You can. First off, nobody crossed their legs like he crosses his legs. Now. Be weary of people that change hard at the age of 50 plus, you know what I mean? Like, they're for gay marriage, or now they're against gay marriage, or they're for fracking, or they're against fracking into their twilight years. It's so full of shit. When people. Now look, you show me a picture of Gavin Newsom crossing his legs like that in college, I'll go find grandfathered in there isn't. You can see Obama how he used to cross his legs. He doesn't do it. So they're doing something. They didn't just go, this is the way I said. You know what I mean? Because there's no. You don't change up. The way you sit is, like, fundamental to who you are. It's just who you are.
- [75:17]
C
No, it's your gate. It's like a fingerprint.
- [75:20]
A
Thank you. It's uniquely yours. It's your thing. But it's also kind of like how you drive. Like I drive a certain way, someone else drives another way. My way's better. But the point is, it's just sort of the way, if you really think about it, the way you lounge when nobody is watching is you at your purest self. This is how I sit. Whether it's Al Bundy with the hand down the pants, the leg cross, the amount of sort of recline. The whole point is that it's your gate. That's you. That's who you are. We should be able to recognize you. The fact that you changed that at age 52 and a half, suspicious to me. Now what Gavin Newsom will do, which is interesting. And Obama. You can see pictures of Obama in the war room when they're bombing Libya or something. And when no one's really supposed to know where he is, he's not in front of an audience at the 92 watch. He has his legs crossed. Like I cross my legs. Later on when he gets in front of the crowd at the 92Y in Manhattan. Then he does the. Oh, here's how we're crossing our legs. The thing that's funny, I know this about Newsom. Newsom does the super deep leg cross. When he's in front of his partisan progressive crowd. When he's being interviewed by progressive, like a deep progressive guy, he does the deep cross. When he's interviewed by Ben Shapiro, both feet on the ground. Yeah, Ben Shapiro's got both his feet on the ground because he's not a partisan homo like the guys who interview these guys from the Times. He's just sitting with his feet on the ground. When a deep left guy interviews him, then he does the deep cross. And then I saw him on Axios being interviewed by someone who was on
- [77:08]
C
this show, Alex Thompson, who's a little
- [77:10]
A
more middle of the road. And now he does the middle of the road leg cross. It's all one big presentation to who's talking to you. Which by the way, means he's full of shit. Because if you're authentic, you have one leg cross, you have one way of everything. And let's see, Alex, who's interviewing. Oh, he's very deeply disappointed about Elon Musk. Aren't we all disappointed about Elon Musk, if you really think about it. I mean, no more so than his mom, right? She's gotta be devastated how Elon turned out, right?
- [77:51]
C
Yeah.
- [77:51]
A
That's brutal. Okay, let's see.
- [77:54]
C
Yeah, let's play this.
- [77:55]
A
Musk, one of the great disappointments, one of the great innovators of our time. I brought up Edison before. He's had us in our time. It breaks my heart. I was the first pause there. Not the deep leg cross. Notice the guy who's talking to him has no leg cross. So he sort of parrots. I don't know if it's a parrot's sort of mimes back, whatever it is. Apes back whatever it is. The guy. So the guy talking to him's got both feet on the ground and is asking him real questions. So Newsom does the middle of the road leg cross with this guy Ben Shapiro. You get no leg cross. And then when you get the super lefty from the New York Times and you get the deep leg cross. But by the way, I don't know that he knows what he's doing. That means he's on autopilot.
- [78:53]
C
Yeah. So he's signaling here.
- [78:55]
A
Yes, he signals. That's what he's. He's always. It's always everything but who he is. Cuz he is nothing. There is no baseline with him. It's just whatever. Here's what I am, whatever you want me to be. Who's sitting across from me right now? That's What I am. Am I for fracking? No, what are you for? You're for. Okay, then I am for fracking. Am I for transitioning prisoners? Yeah. Oh, what? No. Okay, then I'm not. That's why they just waffle. All right, so he's deeply disappointed in Musk. Why? Because he tried to end corruption? Tesla's off the line. I've been one of their biggest proponents, supporters was regulation in California that created the conditions that allowed him to take the risk, become the multi billionaire that he's become. Hands. Crazy hands. Now he's allowing, and I think this is Trump, not just Elon Musk. He's going to allow the greatest ongoal in. I think one of the most significant ongoals. I don't know what I want in the next decade is ceding the EV space to China. They have 70% of the global EV market. Yeah. This guy fucking does nothing. Is very disappointed. And Elon, listen, Elon realized that Democrats were retarded and now he's out and you're burning his dealerships. I get it. And you're so disappointed in the guy who creates billions of jobs and tax revenue, but he loves illegals. But he's not disappointed in them. But he is disappointed in Elon.
- [80:25]
C
He's disappointed in Elon.
- [80:26]
A
All right, Bruce Springsteen has a clip that has been making the rounds because he got woke. Listen, everybody, listen to me. 30 years ago, before. Remember that. Remember those glory days, Bruce. Remember the glory days where Bruce Springsteen and Robert De Niro never said anything into a microphone. They just let their work speak for them and everyone loved them. And I said to everyone, I think these guys are secretly dopes. And then people said to me, what do you mean Robert De Niro is a genius? Have you not seen Casino? And I go, I think he's an idiot savant. I think he's really good. Not any different than a great athlete. You know what I mean? Like, you are amazing at your sport, or you're amazing guitar player, or you're amazing actor. But does that make you a genius? It does in this one limited realm. Only two guys I ever picked out because they never really did long form interviews was Bruce Springsteen and Robert De Niro. And in the last five years they both started talking and now they both sound like fucking retards. So I was right all along.
- [81:51]
C
Do you think, Adam, that consistently Praising someone for 40 to 50 years will kind of atrophy your cerebral bandwidth there? Or do you think
- [82:05]
A
I will say
- [82:07]
C
that because these are guys that have been Lauded.
- [82:10]
A
Right. I think the lauding does it in the sense that you need. This is why these people get torn apart when. And they won't. But like, when these guys debate Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk or somebody of that nature, they always get destroyed because they don't spar.
- [82:31]
C
No. There's zero resistance training.
- [82:33]
A
Right? Right. They have no resistance training. They float in outer space and they atrophy, and they think they have the chops or the muscles or they think they can get in the ring, and they get dismantled because they don't spar. The right kind of spars is always in camp and always sparring. The left hives themselves off and they atrophy. But let's hear whatever he had to say, sir. Minneapolis, Portland, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Phoenix, Newark, Sunrise, Florida, Austin, Chicago, Atlanta, Belmont, Long Island, Philadelphia, New York, Brooklyn, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, and Washington, D.C. the E Street ban is coming your way. And we are bringing hope over fear, democracy over authoritarianism, the rule of law over lawlessness, ethics over unbridled corruption, unity over division, and peace over Minneapolis. All right, so they're bringing hope over fear. I always loved it. How is it that you can transport hope? You get that on. Do you have to check that at the airport? Is that a carry on? Can you carry on hope? Yes, I know all the politicians are bringing you hope. They're gonna fight. They're gonna stand up. By the way, when they say lawlessness, they don't mean illegals from Honduras shooting college students in the back. That's not the kind of lawlessness. Or people in the streets looting or burning a city to the ground or doing street takeovers. When they say lawlessness, they don't mean that. They mean Trump getting a 4.7 rate on a mortgage loan and using Mar A Lago as collateral. That's. That's the kind of lawlessness he speaks of. Not the kind of lawlessness that you think of when you go outside and you see people burning down Apple stores.
- [84:23]
C
Yeah, the democracy over authoritarianism is.
- [84:26]
A
I do love that.
- [84:27]
C
I mean, how many primaries did Kamala win?
- [84:30]
A
Let's see. Zero. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And who's the big guy? And Hunter Biden's on the board of Burisma Energy and Ukraine. That makes sense. And then you get the Ukrainian DA fired, Basically, you say, it won't give him the cash. Yeah, that's no problem there. And you have 100 shell accounts in your grandkids. Names Sleepy Joe, by the way. Tickets start at 2,500 bucks, I think, and go up to like five grand. He's keeping it real, people.
- [85:06]
C
There you go.
- [85:07]
A
The Boss is a dope.
- [85:08]
C
That's going to stop him.
- [85:09]
A
Yes. Now it begs something else, but I'm glad. I like to engage. By the way, general admission, floor row. Whatever. Nine grand. 9,600 bucks. Holy crap.
- [85:21]
C
That's insane.
- [85:22]
A
All right, so let me say this. It brought on a tweet because I called Springsteen a douche, which he is, but he's just dumb, to be fair. But he also likes his plot. It's from. From his crowd. It's fine. The other thing that. So somebody tweeted me, and they explained that he has more class and grace or something in his pinky finger.
- [85:48]
C
You liked it? I like tweets.
- [85:50]
A
I did like it. It's in there somewhere. But here's the point and the reason I'm bringing it up, because it's not for nothing. It's in there somewhere. Chuck, I think it was just from this morning. All right, so here it is. Bruce. So I say Bruce is a douche. And then he says, Bruce has more class. Oh, class. In style. In his pinky. Than blowhard President Taco. Are we still going with the taco? I don't. Tacko is he folds or he chickens out or something. I don't know. Isn't he bombing a country right now? But anyway, so Bruce has more class and style in this pinky than Trump, basically. All right, so let me say this. This is a thing, and it's a problem, which is class and style. This is a problem. Bruce does have more class and more style, but his ideas are retarded and would destroy this country if he was in charge. And Obama was nothing but class and style with retarded ideas that would destroy this country. And Biden is class and style with ridiculous ideas about open border and defund the police and all that. Every idea he has is destructive. And Gavin Newsom is the epitome of class and style with horrible policies that are literally destroying California. So, yes, Gavin Newsom has a lot more class and style and so does Barack Obama than Ron DeSantis. Except Ron DeSantis has good policies, you assholes. I know you think it's some sort of class and style competition. It's not. It's good policy competition. The class and style. Yes, he's. Gavin Newsom's dangerously handsome. That's good for Esquire magazine or Vogue or whatever it is. The state he governs is falling apart. And he has class and style.
- [88:10]
C
Yeah.
- [88:11]
A
Okay, now, pardon me, but I'd rather a dumpy schlub wearing bad cowboy boots and good policy run California with zero class and zero style. How about that? With, like, gravy stains on his shirt. Chuck, I would like you in purple ostrich cowboy boots and gravy stains on your shirt. And good policy run California rather than a tall, slender guy with great hair who had plenty of class and style, run it into the ground with horrific policies. But people on the left, that's why all Hollywood is this way. They're aesthetic, and it's all about the looks and the aesthetic of the person. And that's why Trump drives them insane. Because there is no class and there is no style. There's just a bunch of policy.
- [89:01]
C
Yeah. Vote for Chuck.
- [89:03]
A
Vote for Chuck. All right, let's do some news.
- [89:05]
C
All right, well, I'm gonna start off with this one. This is. This is heartbreaking, man, for two reasons. This is in my hometown of Philadelphia, and my brother is a combat vet. So at the hands off Iran rally this past. Past month, well, we had a. There were some people with some. We'll just let them speak for themselves here. This is a. It's a hands off Iran rally at Philadelphia city Hall this past month.
- [89:32]
B
Until we have done everything in our power to bring the United States to
- [89:36]
A
its knees, let us not lose sight of the enemy. Where every US Military base that crumbles and for every US Soldier who returns
- [89:46]
B
home in a casket, we cheer
- [89:52]
A
wonderful Hamas, Hezbollah, alter Allah, all of the resistant forces. We celebrate. These popular voices on the ground spend every waking moment in direct confrontation with Zionism. And they rely on a strong Iranian
- [90:06]
B
state to maintain their fighting capacity.
- [90:08]
A
Do you hate America? Blow up your family's home. All right. Nothing says passion about an issue like reading the entire thing off your phone.
- [90:19]
C
Yeah, you gotta be off book.
- [90:21]
A
Come on, you gotta get off book.
- [90:22]
C
You can't do it like, if you're a bridesma maid of honor, you're giving the best speech. Can't read off your phone.
- [90:28]
A
No, you're doing hate speech.
- [90:30]
C
You got to be memorized. Come on, guys.
- [90:32]
A
I would say more so than the best man's maid of honor bride speech. Even the eulogy, you got to get off that phone. For hate speak.
- [90:42]
C
Yeah, absolutely. Hate speech is number one. Can't be. You can't be reading off your phone.
- [90:47]
A
You can't be on. You got to be off prompters, we'd say, because. Because hate speech is supposed to come from the heart. You know, it's the soul kind of thing. Right? So you Reading it off your phone, basically. I don't know, I feel like it hurts your cause. It's also funny that your DA in Philly, Krasner, while these guys are yelling destroy the United States, he's down at the airport saying he's gonna arrest ICE officers. Yeah, it's fucking upside down world. It is upside down world. Muslims are your best friends. And your da. You know, it's funny. Krasner is such a pussy, but he's one of those Soros elected guys who soft on crime and then the city falls apart. It's so funny. If you listen to the first 30 seconds of this, it sounds like he's, for the first time ever, talking tough about crime. Except for the only reason he's talking tough is because he's talking about ICE agents and not criminals.
- [91:52]
C
Yeah, there's a.
- [91:53]
A
For like a moment, you go, oh, some tough crime talk from DA Larry Krasner. Sorry. Here it is. This is how it works. You commit crimes within the jurisdiction that is the city and county of Philadelphia, I prosecute you. That is how it works. No, I don't take a phone call from the president saying, let him go. No, the president cannot pardon you. I'll say it again. The president cannot pardon you. And yes, I will put you in handcuffs. All right, pause it for a second. I'm watching it going. Guy's finally getting tough on crime. He's getting tough on crime. He's talking about U.S. marshals. He's talking about folks with badges who are sworn in, who work for this country scared. That's who he's talking about. He's not talking about gang bangers.
- [92:41]
C
No.
- [92:41]
A
He's not talking about illegals shooting college students. He's talking about folks who work for us. Keep playing it. It's funny. Yes, I will put you in handcuffs and I will put you in a courtroom. And if necessary, I will put you in a jail cell if you decide to make the terrazzo floor of this airport. Anything like what you did in the streets of Minneapolis, which involved the criminal homicide of unarmed innocent people? Well, one guy was armed. We are not having that. One person drove a van at. Somebody. Let me go back to all ICE agents. By the way, you know what I like about these douchebags on the left? If you're driving a 5,000 pound minivan, you're unarmed. But if you're in the Capitol on J6 and you're holding a flagpole made out of birch, you're armed. Or you're swinging around a helmet, or you have A potted plant. So that is an armed insurrection. But a 5,000 pound minivan that's capable of killing anyone at any time. I don't know how many people been run over and killed each year. Versus conked over the head with a wooden flagpole and killed. I'm gonna go significantly higher. Run over on the streets. Yeah, that's just me. So unarmed, his version of unarmed. This fucking pussy's version of unarmed is a guy who's got a gun and a woman who's driving a minivan, which is a weapon, but that's unarmed. Armed is guys at the Capitol with a helmet, a potted plant and a flagpole. That. That's his definition of armed, by the way, as a da. That's his definition of armed at the Capitol. And then unarmed is a guy who is armed and someone else is driving a vehicle.
- [94:39]
C
Yeah, well, he's gotten better at being a tough talking guy because I do remember when he. Remember he did the you can get the F out. He took. There was a beat before he. He didn't say fuck. He said get the F out. But when it comes to tough talking officials, he's got to take a page out of Philadelphia. Former mayor Frank Rizzo's book. I mean, this guy, Jesus, how far we've fallen. If this guy were the mayor this 40 years ago. This is maybe 40 years ago.
- [95:06]
A
Politicians used to be tough talking dudes. Here we go. You're a crumb creep. I want to fight you. You don't have the courage. You're a real crumb bum, bum. Put that on camera. You're a creep. Get away from me. Well, sir, I'm on the public street. I should be authorized to be here. I'll break it off your. I'll break it over your head. Get away from me, you crumb. You're a crumb creep coward. I want to fight you. Why is that? Because you're a crumb creep, lush coward. You don't even know me, Mayor. You are a lush. I can tell by looking at you. I was a cop all my life and I know a lush when I see one. And you're a lush. You're a creep. Get away from me. Crumb crumb. Well, that's the guy used to run
- [95:59]
C
as a guy who used to run Philadelphia. So I don't know if you're running it. Maybe those guys wouldn't be.
- [96:04]
A
We got the deep leg cross with the brooch man on or just the fat black chicks running everything. Oh, man, now I'm a big well
- [96:14]
C
Listen, I'm a big first amendment guy. Those guys have their rights to say whatever the fuck they want to say. But I think if you're going to go to city hall and say shit like that, you can't wear the mask.
- [96:22]
A
Oh yeah, you gotta let me tell you something. This whole Covid. Okay, listen. How fucking dumb we are. The mask did nothing. Proved ineffective. Helped nothing. Did nothing for Covid. Except for it gives every single person excuse now to mask up before they commit any kind of crime anywhere in the country.
- [96:45]
C
Or say wild shit.
- [96:46]
A
Or say wild shit. Thank you.
- [96:48]
C
It's a total right to steal.
- [96:51]
A
Right? Nice job idiots, with your stupid mask shit. All right, what else we got?
- [96:56]
C
Well, speaking of pro, pro Iranian material, the Iranian social media posted. It's an AI generated video. Just a propaganda promoting future strikes against the United States. This is pretty wild, but I think you'd like it, Adam.
- [97:15]
A
Okay,
- [97:19]
C
so it's all about revenge against wronged culture society.
- [97:22]
A
Hold on, hold on. Hiroshima, we bombed. Can you guys fuck right off? With Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you could have surrendered. Japan, you could have surrendered, but you did not. And you could have not bombed Pearl harbor, but you couldn't stop yourself. And now you got a fucking atomic bomb because we're smarter than you, so fuck right off. And number two, you guys set off incendiary bombs to try to burn down the Pacific Northwest. If you had an atomic bomb, Japan, you would have dropped it in the middle of Manhattan with no notice. So fuck right off. Go ahead. Vietnam, right? You guys are going communist. Yemen, The Houthis. Houthis. Okay, that's the wrong word. Palestine and Gaza. Yeah. If you guys weren't anti Semitic nut jobs, you could live. Oh, oh, Epstein Island. Yeah. Young girl on Epstein Island.
- [98:21]
C
It's total revenge.
- [98:22]
A
I know.
- [98:22]
C
Keep going.
- [98:26]
A
Iran. Uh huh. You guys don't have to be state sponsors or terrorists. There's a Ayatollah. It's all. All they have is a fucking cartoon. It's a good thing they have a religion. They blew up the. Here. Here's the good news, okay? It's like the Germans ran off the Jews and then we got a rocket program out of it. In a way, it's a good thing that they all belong to a retarded religion because their society is so fucked up that they cannot make a missile that would reach us or they can't defend us from destroying them before they make that missile. In a way, it's kind of a blessing that they have a shit religion because it prevents them scientifically from doing Shit. That would work against us.
- [99:22]
C
Did you notice that the Statue of Liberty was actually baphomet?
- [99:25]
A
Yeah. Was that the goat with the horns?
- [99:27]
C
That's it. Well, I have to. I just. There we go. Boom.
- [99:32]
A
Yeah. All right. Anyway, that's a big victory for you guys. This is as effective as the artist's rendition of the Bullet Train. You know, they go, hey, folks, look what we're gonna do. Like, yeah, you got nothing. Yeah, yeah, but this is what we think it should look like in our head. I know, but you don't have anything. Well, let's go down to the 6th Street Bridge and show us the artist's rendition of that. See, in reality, you got gang bangers doing donuts and dodges on there, and other homeless guys pulling copper out of the streetlights and graffiti. But according to our drawing, there's happy people and the band Chicago's playing, and there's ice cream vendors and folks are walking with balloons. That's a drawing that you guys make because you cannot create the reality of it. So all you have is a fake drawing. You have an artist rendition of what you would like your world to look like, except for the reality is a train driving through a pile of garbage in Los Angeles because people loot the boxes off, off the train. That's the reality of what you have. You don't have anything, so you don't have a missile. You don't have this ability. You can't do shit. You have a backwards, fucked up culture, and that's why you don't have any good stuff. But that's good because we can bomb the shit out of you and there's nothing you can do about it.
- [100:58]
C
Well, I will say this. That's a pretty cohesive social media strategy compared to our governor, who's now getting slammed for yet another problematic tweet. I mean, earlier this week, he compared him. He basically posted a don't I look like Christian Bale? And now he is. Well, he's calling Benny Johnson. Well, just. Just take a look at this. This tweet here. So Benny Johnson is calling out Governor. Governor Newsom for fraud investigations. And Governor, his. Newsom. His press office says. We got a call from Grindr after this and said. Or they said. They said your team was their biggest users. Congrats. Right, so he's basically calling Benny Johnson. He's calling him a homophobic. This is a homophobic insult.
- [101:48]
A
Yes. He's saying he's gay, which. And that means he's bad.
- [101:52]
B
Yeah.
- [101:52]
A
So that means gay people are bad. So why would Gavin Newsom in California, who's pro gay marriage, talk about gay people being bad? It's always funny when people do that. They go, I didn't mean that. Look, I said that mout mountain bike was gay, and I didn't mean gay like slept with dudes. I meant, like, lame. It's like, well, that's even worse. Now you're just saying gay is lame. He's basically saying gay is bad. So nice job, Gavin. Also, people pointing out fraud in your state, while I get that it's a little bit humbling, should not make you angry. It should make you want to fix the fraud. I get these guys. It's so telling that they get angry at the people that uncover the fraud.
- [102:41]
C
Yeah.
- [102:41]
A
And it's the same thing they do. It's like some Honduran illegal who should never be in this country shoots some 18 year old in the back, and then Trump sends a tweet out and they go, look at him politicizing this. Okay. You should be looking at the criminal who's shooting the 18 year old in the back instead of worried about worrying about Trump. Maybe Trump is politicizing it. It's still in your city, and you're still letting it happen. And maybe all these guys hate Newsom, and they do hate Newsom, but it's still fraud and it's still in your city. Now go ahead and debunk it, then just go ahead and say, these guys are liars. My team looked into it. None of this exists. They never say that. They just yell at the person that's exposing. This is like yelling at an oncologist for telling you you have brain cancer.
- [103:31]
C
Yeah. Also, why are you taking phone calls from Grindr, man? You got to rebuild Malibu. You're on the phone with him like you were on the phone with Biden. That lady in the Palisades. It's the same thing.
- [103:41]
A
All right? He's fucking retarded. All right, me, April, Salt Lake City, Utah, wise guys out there. April 10th and 11th. Couple of shows Friday, couple of shows Saturday, heading out to San Diego to Solana beach at the Belly up. After that on the 12th, you can go to amcorl.com for all the live shows. Chloe Cole, everybody. Her website is Cho C H O O C O L E. Okay. You can. I hope so. There's three O's in there.
- [104:18]
C
Let me take a look.
- [104:19]
A
Seems weird. All right. Yep. Three zeros. Yeah, that's what we got. Check that out. And Andrew, nice job. Until next time. Same for Andrew. And Chloe saying mahalo. Leave us a voicemail at 888-634-1744 and get your ticket to see Adam Carolla at AdamCorola.com.
- [104:45]
B
Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. We're coming at you with this is the mindset free.
- [104:53]
A
This is the mantra free.
- [104:54]
B
This is the mindset mindset. With movies like Pineapple Express, the entire Star Trek film franchise and Gladiator, and TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, the fairly odd Parents and Ghosts, Pluto TV is always free.
- [105:10]
A
Huzzah.
- [105:11]
B
Pluto TV stream now pay never. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. We're coming at you with everything the mindset free. This is the mantra. This is the mindset mindset. With movies like Pineapple Express, the entire Star Trek film franchise and Gladiator, and TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, the fairly odd Parents and Ghosts, Pluto TV is always free. Pluto TV stream now pay never.