Michael Chiklis: How Going Bald Shaped His Career + Ian Frisch Exposes Cartel Secrets

Summary

The Adam Carolla Show Podcast Summary – September 30, 2025 Guests: Michael Chiklis, Ian Frisch
Special Segments: Jason "Mayhem" Miller with Trending News

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Episode Overview

This episode features an engaging interview with actor Michael Chiklis about his new film The Senior, his career arc, and the role going bald played in his professional journey. Later, investigative journalist and author Ian Frisch discusses the intricacies of cartel operations, undercover work in the drug wars, and his new book Inside the Cartel. The episode maintains Adam's trademark blend of humor, candid anecdotes, pop-culture rants, and philosophical musings, making for a rich and layered listening experience.

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Michael Chiklis Interview: Career, Baldness, Family, and Resilience

1. On ‘The Senior’ and Working with Angel Studios

[03:39–06:23]

• Chiklis stars in The Senior, a football redemption film, distributed by Angel Studios.
• Adam and Chiklis discuss Angel Studios’ outsider success, collaborative ethos, and how its founders’ Mormon background makes for refreshingly ethical business dealings compared to “paganistic Hollywood” types.
  • Adam: “We as west coast atheists made a living making fun of these people. But it turns out they’re super nice, they’re super straight dealers…” [05:36]
  • Chiklis: “That’s refreshing as hell. I got to say, I’ve had a really… been fantastic.” [06:11]

2. Broadway, ‘Defending the Caveman,’ and Lessons from One-Man Shows

[06:23–09:35]

• Chiklis talks about taking over the one-man Broadway show Defending the Caveman, playing 25+ characters and loving the challenge of winning over tough NY crowds.
  • Chiklis: “…when you’ve done a six month run... everything seems handleable at that point.” [08:49]
  • Shares the difference between lonely stand-up and acting with a cast.

3. Golf, Athletes, and the Pain of Mastery

[11:04–14:30]

• Anecdote about golfing with the legendary Ted Williams—who found golf harder than hitting a fastball.
  • Chiklis: “I’d hit a hundred-mile-an-hour fastball, no problem, and the ball is just sitting there on a fucking tee and I can’t hit it.” [11:31]
• Discussion of why golf draws in top athletes like Michael Jordan: the allure of the unmasterable.

4. How Going Bald Shaped Chiklis’s Career

[15:11–18:35]

• Chiklis narrates his “ass backwards” career scored by an early loss of hair due to a college makeup mishap, leading to playing older roles while still very young.
  • Chiklis: “…I use the grease paint all over my head, not knowing… you’ll suffocate [your follicles].” [16:33]
  • His journey from panic to embracing uncommon leading-man roles.

5. Cultural Shifts: Acceptance and Authenticity

[17:57–22:29]

• Hair and identity—contrast in generational expectations around appearance.
• Both discuss today’s more inclusive, “do what you want” approach versus the rigid style norms of the 1980s.

6. Blame, Culture, and Social Media

[19:33–22:29]

• Chiklis reflects on being blacklisted after playing Belushi and the culture of blame.
  • Chiklis: “People play the blame game all the time. People need to take ten steps back and shut the fuck up.” [19:42]
• Both criticize performative grief on social media when celebrities die:
  • Chiklis: “The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing... It makes you bow to the world.” [21:37]

7. On Family Support, ‘Sandwich Theory,’ and the Roots of Success

[26:01–43:16]

• Chiklis praises his father (“series of dichotomies: tough guy hairdresser, reader of Socrates”) and talks about paternal encouragement to pursue acting.
  • Chiklis: “My dad...was kind enough and genteel enough to see that, hey, I can’t picture you doing anything else.”
• Adam introduces his “sandwich theory”—a metaphor connecting the love and effort put into making a childhood sandwich to parental support in life. Chiklis comes from a “10 or 11” sandwich household; Adam, a zero.
  • Chiklis: “That comes from both my mother and my father… If she made you a sandwich—I mean, she made the bread from scratch.” [39:41]
  • Adam: “No sandwich means also not in the stands at the Little League game. It's a metaphor for how into this—the sandwich.” [40:38]

8. Loss, Resilience, and Living with Zest

[44:37–53:06]

• Reflections on family death, grief, and consistent behaviors.
• On Chiklis’s vibrant upbringing: “life in my house—kids and dogs and action and food and all of that.”
  • Chiklis: “My wife is a liver. When things were the worst… she would turn to me and go ‘toga!’… That meant let's throw a party.” [51:34]

9. Heritage, Ethnicity, and ‘Dog Theory’

[52:20–53:46]

• Chiklis and Adam riff on Mediterranean roots, similarities between Greeks and Italians.
• Lighthearted “dog theory”: people as breeds, naturally predisposed to certain energies.

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Dawson’s Segments: Chiklis’s Roles, Cold Plunges, and Football

[54:05–61:11]

• Dawson lauds Chiklis’s performance in When the Game Stands Tall and shares a personal anecdote about Coach Terry Edson.
• Chiklis gives a detailed account of prepping for his football movie in his late 50s, enduring hits, and using cold plunges for recovery.
  • Chiklis: “I was turned on to the wonders of the cold plunge... the benefit is insane because it gets you cold to your core.” [56:03–57:26]

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Michael Chiklis on ‘The Senior’ (Film)

[61:03–64:43]

• The true story behind The Senior: Mike Flynt, dismissed from his college football team in youth, is invited back 37 years later and becomes the oldest player in NCAA history.
  • Chiklis: “Redemption and reconciliation... You’ll laugh out loud, you’ll cry, and then you’ll leave the theater feeling like a human.” [64:01]
• Rob Corddry's performance in the film is highlighted.

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Ian Frisch: Inside the Cartel

1. Intro to ‘Inside the Cartel’ and Drug War Analysis

[97:10–101:46]

• Ian Frisch discusses the undercover work of Martin Suarez, the only FBI agent to infiltrate the Medellin cartel.
  • Frisch: “The cartels are profit-driven... If they can't get paid, their business crumbles. That's why Martin posed as a money launderer.” [99:28–100:40]

2. Shapeshifting Cartels: Then and Now

[100:56–105:54]

• Cartels have changed from marijuana to cocaine to fentanyl, with modern groups like Sinaloa replacing Medellin; the core business model remains.
  • Frisch: “When you break it all down, to me it’s all very much the same.” [101:46]

3. Diplomacy, Enforcement, and Money Laundering

[102:25–105:54]

• Discusses the complex nature of fighting the drug trade: overt/covert tactics, cutting off money flow, and international diplomacy—especially regarding China’s role in fentanyl precursors.

4. Stories of Innovation & Deception

[106:00–107:49]

• Frisch shares harrowing stories: retrieving bales of cocaine dropped from planes at night; the cat-and-mouse “gamesmanship” between law enforcement and traffickers; semi-submersible and submarine innovations.
  • Frisch: “Bales were the size of refrigerators, and they’re falling from the sky like bombs.” [106:00]

5. Cartel Psychology and the Futility of ‘Winning’

[110:12–114:08]

• Adam reflects on the resourcefulness of traffickers: “There’s a kind of bottom line intelligence… If they were smuggling anything other than drugs, you’d think, man, that’s the smartest guy.”
• Frisch: “…resourcefulness really kicks in… chasing an element of stability in a very unstable world.” [110:56]

6. Modern State of Cartels & Lessons Unlearned

[115:48–119:44]

• Mexico now dominates, with government entangled in an uneasy truce with cartels.
  • Frisch: “It can't change every four years based on who's in federal office...these problems can grow roots. They went from sapling to a tree pretty quick.” [119:44]

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Highlighted Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chiklis on Blame and Social Media:
  • “People play the blame game all the time. People need to take ten steps back and shut the fuck up.” [19:42]
• Chiklis on His Dad’s Support:
  • “‘Do you think if it wasn’t who you were, I would have allowed it?’ ...He was kind enough and genteel enough...” [30:34]
• Adam on His ‘Sandwich Theory’:
  • “No sandwich means also not in the stands at the Little League game... It's a metaphor for how into this—the sandwich.” [40:38]
• Frisch on Cartel Resourcefulness:
  • “You kind of had to tip your hat at some of the things that they did to deceive you... Gamesmanship between the feds and the cartels.” [111:39]
• Chiklis on Life and Resilience:
  • “As long as I feel like I can put out... That's what I'm going to do. I'm always into the next thing.” [25:25]

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News and Trending Segments (with Jason “Mayhem” Miller)

[69:12–91:42]

• Violet Affleck’s speech at the UN sparked a Carolla rant on generational pessimism and younger activists.
  • Adam: “Where you want to be at as a young person is someone goes, would you like a hot dog?... Enjoy the shit out of that hot dog.”
• Discussion of the Baywatch reboot leads to a deep dive on the show’s pop-culture tropes (notably, the name “Hobie”).
• The Ray J, Kim Kardashian, and Kris Jenner RICO case rumors are lampooned.
• General pop culture banter maintains the show’s mixture of humor and nostalgia.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39–06:23] Michael Chiklis on Angel Studios & The Senior
• [15:11–18:35] How going bald shaped Chiklis’s career
• [26:01–43:16] Sandwich Theory & family support
• [54:05–61:11] Football movies and cold plunges
• [61:03–64:43] The true story behind The Senior
• [97:10–101:46] Ian Frisch: ‘Inside the Cartel’ and the war on drugs
• [106:00–107:49] Cartel resourcefulness stories
• [110:12–114:08] Cartel psychology and gamesmanship
• [115:48–119:44] Modern cartels, government entanglement, and lost windows for reform

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Final Notes

This episode blends revealing personal storytelling (both Carolla’s and Chiklis’s) with thoughtful analysis of culture, resilience, and the changing landscape of both show business and crime. The “sandwich theory” becomes a central thread illustrating the episode’s persistent theme: how deep support, effort, and love—whether from family, teams, or colleagues—shape lives and legacies. Ian Frisch’s cartel reporting underscores the scale and complexity of international crime, leaving listeners with a nuanced understanding of where the war on drugs stands today.

Transcript

[Adam Carolla]

In this episode. Michael Chiklis. Yeah, the guy's done all the movies and all TV shows. Great conversation with him. Ian Frisch also joins us later to talk about the cartels and teach you a lot more than you thought you knew about the cartels. We'll do all that right after this.

[Dawson]

Adam Carolla returns to New York City Thursday, October 9th at Rodney Dangerfield's Comedy Club with Cat Timpf and Matt Friend. Two shows October 9th and then don't miss the Ace man in Pottstown, Pennsylvania on Friday, October 10th and Saturday, October 11th at Soljol's. Adam returns to Flappers in Burbank on October 29th. Get tickets for these and every [e-mail].

[Adam Carolla]

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[Dawson]

From Carolla 1 Studios in Glendale, California, this is the Adam Carolla Show. Adam's guest today from the new Angel Studios movie, the Senior Michael Chiklis and the co author of Inside the Cartel, Ian Frisch. Plus the news and trending topics with Jason Mayhem Miller. And now a little disappointed he didn't get raptured. He could really use the break. Adam Carolla.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. Get it on. Got to get it on. Their choice, but to get on mandate. Get it on. Welcome to the show. Michael Chiklis in studio got a movie out called the Senior based on a true story. All the things, all the lessons you want your kids to learn about life are contained within this movie, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

I mean, it's a football movie, but at its core it's a redemption tale. So.

[Adam Carolla]

And Angel. Yeah, I was with the angel guys a few weeks ago doing a dry bar special out at their place in Provo. Have you been to the home?

[Michael Chiklis]

I have not. I have not.

[Adam Carolla]

Headquarters. It's impressive what they've done. They just went public, they raised, you know, they're worth a billion plus or whatever. But it's nice. I mean, they went outside of the system. They created their own material. They curate stuff. And they just said, well, we're not going to really work within the ecosphere of Hollywood. We're going to go outside and we're going to do our own thing.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, they also saw a gap in, you know, you know, what's being made right now. You know, it has been being made for the last decade. So, you know, they saw that there was an underserviced, you know, segment of the population, and I think that they're addressing it. Plus they're, you know, they're expanding, they're doing different things. I like them because they're collaborative. You know, they just got involved, frankly, with this movie. They didn't produce this film. Yeah, they're distributing it.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, yeah, they do a lot of that.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. So, I mean, they, they came on board. They've been terrific. They've been really collaborative, you know, open to suggestions. You're thinking outside of the box. I really liked them. I've been having a good time with them.

[Adam Carolla]

You know, the thing about folk, it's kind of a weird thing. You know, some, they're, they're all Mormon and, and it's easy in Hollywood. They kind of make.

[Michael Chiklis]

Because I think some of them are from, from Idaho as well, so.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I don't know if there's Mormons in Idaho. There are.

[Michael Chiklis]

Okay.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, let's let it tell you this way. We as west coast atheists made a living making fun of these people. But it turns out they're super nice. They're super straight dealers and there's a lot of upside versus the sort of paganistic Hollywood atheist types who are trying to screw everybody all the time. So what, are you comparing these guys too? You know what I mean? That's what I'm doing. I found dealing with them to be straight up. Straight up.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. That's refreshing as hell. Yeah. Like I said, I've had a really. I got. Literally been working with them for a couple of months in the lead up to this movie coming out, and they've been fantastic.

[Adam Carolla]

So I. You came in. When I. When I heard you were coming in, I was thinking about it today and I had this. I had this flashback, which is Mike August, who I work with, produced a play and. Work with Mike, let's see, Rob Becker. Oh, yeah. And he goes, you know, standing the Caveman. He has the longest running Broadway play ever. And the guy wrote it and developed it and did it and has kind of retired off it. But he said at some point he retired and Chiklis came in and took over for him. And I was like, that's an interesting concept. I think I looked it up. It was like 91, but coming in, it's essentially. Jeff Ross has a one man show on Broadway now called Take a Banana for the Ride or something. Something like that. That would be like if I just took over for Jeff Ross.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

Listen, doing his one man show or not, I don't know.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

What was that like?

[Michael Chiklis]

Wow, there's the playbill. Holy crap. Yeah, man. You know, that was a little different than that because I sort of. He did it as a stand up. He just stood center stage and said the words and the words were great and worked on their own. And I, I kind of made it more into a play where I played like 25 different characters and really turned it into something different, you know, from myself, you know, But I had a great time doing it. It was like walking a tightrope two hours on Broadway. You know what I loved? I loved Friday nights because, like, you know, Saturday night was like shooting fish in the barrel because, you know, there are drunk tourists and I'd come out and they'd start chuckling. I was like, really? I haven't even said anything right. But on Fridays, you know, you'd have the New York crowd with the arms folded, right?

[Adam Carolla]

Going like, all right, prove it to me.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, Exactly. I spent 150 bucks ahead on this thing. Make me laugh.

[Adam Carolla]

Right?

[Michael Chiklis]

You know, so, yeah, I, you know, I relished in watching this happen, you know, the. And then the arms would come down and then a little tap on the person next to him and then, and then they're rolling. And it's because I felt armed. The materials, the material was really good.

[Adam Carolla]

This is. Does that arm you for about anything in show business? I mean, doing a one man Broadway.

[Michael Chiklis]

Confidence? Sure. I mean, when you've done that, when you've done a six month run at the booth to a sold out show in front of, you know, a thousand people every night and you've done that, you know, really going into an audition or something like that, or shooting a scene in a movie, you, you can always tap back into that and go like, all right, you know what I mean? Everything seems handleable at that point.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, compared to that. Yeah, this doesn't feel like as much.

[Michael Chiklis]

Plus you're, you're, you're, you're on a tight way, you know, standups, man, they're on a tightrope by themselves. There's no net and there's no one else. You know, the one thing, it's a lonely experience, I'll tell you that.

[Adam Carolla]

The Broadway experience.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, no, just being on stage by yourself, you know, I mean, I do.

[Adam Carolla]

A lot of stand up and I don't feel it as acutely as others. I mean, it's a kind of a thing we have in our society, which is they go, the hardest thing in the world is to hit a baseball. It's like a round bat and put in. I go, I used to play baseball. It's not as hard as I'd rather do that than the ufc. Let's all put it to you that way. And by the way, could do that versus the UFC if I via, if I had to, if I was 19.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right.

[Adam Carolla]

But, but they'll do that. Comics will do that. They go, you're out there alone, you're lonely. Stand up is you're out there alone. And you know, I wasn't talking about.

[Michael Chiklis]

That part of it that I'm talking. No, the part of it when you're on stage, because then you're actually with the audience then, so the audience is your other cast. Right. I'm talking about, you know, being on the road, being in hotel room.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

You know, when you're in a show with other cast members, at least you have people to hang out with.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

You know what I mean? No, that's what I was talking about.

[Adam Carolla]

It leads to everything that is a bad idea. Like when you're on the road. When you're on the road, you seriously, you go, it's 11 in the morning on Saturday. And you go, let's get a beer. Yeah, you know, why not? We're not doing anything right. And, and also we got to work tonight, you know, and you never think, you know, where's the closest pilates studio? You go, where's the sports ball?

[Michael Chiklis]

Incidentally speaking about the hitting the baseball, I got to play around of golf with the late great Ted Williams when he was in his 80s.

[Adam Carolla]

Really?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. And it was at a celebrity golf tournament and he and I spent the day together. You know, I mean he, I went to his batting school when I was like six years old. He icon, one of the best batters in the history of the game.

[Adam Carolla]

Sure.

[Michael Chiklis]

And he's standing over the golf ball and he's like, can I swear in this program?

[Adam Carolla]

Swear away.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, he goes, you know, I'd hit a hundred mile an hour fastball, no problem. And the ball is just sitting there on a fucking tee and I can't hit it. So you know, the perspective is everything, right?

[Adam Carolla]

Well, golf is interesting that way. I was just re watching the Last Dance, the Bulls and Michael Jordan and everything like that. And you know, Jordan has always been like, well before game seven I shot a round of golf and then I got Scottie Pippen to come with me and then Steve Kerr and then the coach from the other team came by and we and stuff and I was like, it is kind of interesting that all these guys are playing golf, you know. And it's Also, you know, 26 year old black dude, like what? Why so attracted to golf? And then I kind of realized that these guys have all sort of mastered their sport but they can't master golf. They can't master golf. And so they're so intrigued by it. It's like people who don't play golf.

[Michael Chiklis]

Can'T watch golf because they don't understand. But once you play golf, then you're fascinated by it because every single shot is another physics equation.

[Adam Carolla]

But I think for like a guy like Michael Jordan, it's like, God damn.

[Michael Chiklis]

How do I do this?

[Adam Carolla]

I can't do it. I can't figure out. I gotta. And so I imagine it'd be like picture a 35 year old George Clooney. And he comes to a cocktail party and he goes, who's that gal over there? And then someone goes, she's here alone. And then he goes, she's single? Yeah, she's single. And then he goes over and goes, hey, can I buy you a drink? And she goes, nah, I'm Good. And then he goes, you single Friday? Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

All right.

[Adam Carolla]

We're good.

[Michael Chiklis]

That's a bit of a leap. Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

I guess he'd walk out going, all right, wait, I gotta try it. Yeah. Let me figure this out. I gotta figure this out. Something's not computing over here. Right. There's probably a hot chick walking up to him. He's gonna get skedaddled. I gotta figure this out, because I think these guys all felt like they needed it. They couldn't master it, and it drove them.

[Michael Chiklis]

It drove them unmasterable. Chichi Rodriguez once said to me, you don't. You don't own this game, man. You rent it.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

And that's it. Sometimes you rent it and sometimes you don't.

[Adam Carolla]

Right. But I would. You'd have to think that. And also, Jordan works so hard at his craft of basketball. It was so relentless that he thought. Probably thought he could will himself into being here.

[Michael Chiklis]

Hits a lot of balls too. He plays a lot of golf. And that's what's confounding about that fricking sport. You just can't. One day you're hitting the drive beautifully, but your irons are off. And then there's the reverse, and then everything's working for a minute, but you can't putt. It's a confounding bitch of a sport.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, Ted Williams and Michael Jordan couldn't figure it out, so that's all you need to know.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, I think everyone should play golf because it humbles you if you think you're hot shit. Go and play some golf. You'll. You'll change your opinion quick. Unless you cheat.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. That's a weird conceit. So for you, I guess, in a weird way, people probably think of you as an unlikely leading man. Bald. Before, it was cool, you know. Now I'll take it. It's all the rage. I heard that you had an issue with a makeup situation.

[Michael Chiklis]

Oh.

[Adam Carolla]

And I don't know how that would work. How did that work?

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, listen, don't let the bald head fool you. My father was a hairdresser, so I know a lot about follicles. Yeah. And at the time, I really didn't know. And I was in college at Boston University, and I got, you know, of course, I got cast in all the old roles. My, my. Incidentally, my career is ass backwards. You know, my wife was saying this to me the other day. She's like, you played the commish when a guy in your 40s. When you were 27, you played Vic Mackie and the Shield in your late 30s. You played a superhero in your 40s. And now you played a football player in your late 50s. Yeah, you're going backwards. Like she's like, what's next? You going to play a high school.

[Adam Carolla]

You're up for the lead in the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.

[Michael Chiklis]

Boom. So I digress. What the fuck are we talking about?

[Adam Carolla]

We're talking about follicles. Your dad is a hairdresser.

[Michael Chiklis]

So I was, of course I got cast as all the older guys, you know, that like the, you know, the, the older men.

[Adam Carolla]

What, were you bald in college?

[Michael Chiklis]

No, no, I had a mane of hair. I had a beautiful head of hair. And I was a leading man at that time, you know. And in my junior year I got cast as Mr. Dipina and you can't take it with you, 65 year old man. And I shaved my head. Male patent baldness.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, I see.

[Michael Chiklis]

And during the run of the show, instead of using Ben Nye grease paint makeup on my face and powdering my head, I use the grease paint all over my head, not knowing that unless you use an astringent to get the grease out of your follicles, you'll suffocate them. And after the run of the show, here I am thinking my hair is going to grow back thicker than ever. And it grew back patchy and thin. What you see in the commish is what grew back. So I had to pivot. I was like, fuck, you know, you know what now you know. And it was traumatizing at, I think I was 20.

[Adam Carolla]

Sure. You know, also what year? I mean, we're talking about, we're talking about like 83 or something or four or something like that.

[Michael Chiklis]

Look, zero leading men with.

[Adam Carolla]

Yes. Yeah, well, look, you could play a Bond villain, right? I mean, or Mr. Clean or something.

[Michael Chiklis]

Slightly limiting at that time.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. So I don't think it's an interesting process and a concept and maybe it has some relevance in the time we're living in. But my son, he's 19, he's hanging out with this guy his whole life. His friends all had different haircuts and whatever, whoever. Some guys had to fro, some guys had it straight. They did ponyt. They just shaved clean. They just do whatever.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right.

[Adam Carolla]

There was a time when there were sort of required haircuts for men. She had a look, you know what I mean? And if the look was different and bald wasn't it, and a crew cut wasn't it, then there was trouble. There was like issues and now it's just whatever all the time.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, now I kind of look at my head as a canvas. Like, you can put whatever hair on it or off of it or different hats, whatever. And for the. Depending on the character.

[Adam Carolla]

So you got. So now here you are in your. Your early 20s, and no hair's coming back.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

And you're looking to catchy, you're looking to act.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

And so now what?

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, I was. Listen, I ended up wearing a piece on top of my head to play the late, great John Belushi. And the first movie I ever got right was that Mess, so. And that was a hot mess.

[Adam Carolla]

Why was it a hot mess?

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, I mean, I don't want to go over the whole controversy of it. I was blacklisted for doing it and everything, you know. Really Been well documented. Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

Just for daring to play.

[Michael Chiklis]

It was. It was guilt by association. But the good news is, like, in the senior, there was. There's been redemption and reconciliation. And I think that everybody close to him understands that I loved him in his memory, and I had no disrespect whatsoever. So it was an opportunity for me to play someone who I loved and admired or tell people the specials for that evening. So there was no. There was no saying no.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I don't. I don't. I think people blame the wrong people oftentimes for, like, a lot of stuff, you know?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yes. That's a lot. You know what? Blame is a shitty word, and it's. And it's pervasive in our culture right now. People play the blame game all the time. And I think that people need to take 10 steps back and shut the fuck up.

[Adam Carolla]

I agree.

[Michael Chiklis]

Quiet.

[Adam Carolla]

Maybe 11, but.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, yeah. And just go like, wait a minute.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I agree. Now, look, I'm with you. Why is everyone an expert on everything? Why is everyone weighing in on everything?

[Michael Chiklis]

Right.

[Adam Carolla]

I don't need everyone to weigh in on everything. I don't. Even in my own way, when people die, who I'm aware of, who I know and have known and had relationships with or worked with a little bit or something. Like, you take a guy like Norm MacDonald. Norm was a friend, but we did things together, and he's been on the show and we knew each other well. But I didn't sit down and write a long thing about my dearest friend passing and I'll have a hole in my heart and stuff like that, because he wasn't a good friend of mine. He was a guy I knew.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right.

[Adam Carolla]

And I respected him.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right.

[Adam Carolla]

And here's the thing, you can die and you don't need my opinion on that person dying.

[Michael Chiklis]

Admittedly, I've said I've written a couple of things when certain people have passed, but only the people who I felt that I was tight with and had a real relationship and rapport with. Otherwise you feel full of shit. You know what I mean? It's. You're just.

[Adam Carolla]

And also.

[Michael Chiklis]

And why do you have to say you don't.

[Adam Carolla]

You need to be compelled to weigh is what I'm saying.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right. Exactly.

[Adam Carolla]

Norm McDonald can die and people don't need to go, where's Adam Carolla coming down on this? Or Michael Chicklis on the death of Norm MacDonald? And by the way, I probably sent a tweet out saying, good dude, he'll be missed or something like that. But I didn't do Dear friends and My world and all that, because then it becomes.

[Michael Chiklis]

My bio on all my social media is a Socratic quote. It's. It's. The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing. And I live by that. It's. It's an innately a humble statement. And it is not to say that you don't know anything. Literally. It is to say that in the knowable world, in the knowable cosmos, when you look at any subject, you. You don't know shit. Compare, comparatively speaking, to what is knowable.

[Adam Carolla]

Right.

[Michael Chiklis]

And that just. That just makes you bow to the world. It makes you look at everything with a certain level of humility. Like, look, I know what I know. I'm trying to learn every day, but there's only so much I'm gonna know any. Even a lifetime. So I come from that place.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

You know, to get.

[Adam Carolla]

Look, a little dusting of low self esteem versus the stealth. The self esteem movement. I am telling you, the self esteem movement. Us up, we took every kid and told them they were precious, that they're.

[Michael Chiklis]

Perfect, and then they believe it. Yeah, exactly. You know, listen, you got to eat a cup of dirt growing up. You just do. You know, you gotta. You gotta take some shit. You just do.

[Adam Carolla]

I, I agree. And you know, that's why football is great because you cannot get through it without getting jacked up. You cannot. It's, it's.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

It.

[Adam Carolla]

The. The least you're gonna experience is misery. That'll be the least y experience.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, but like the old ABC thing, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat and everything in between, it's just true. And this man. Nice segue. I love this movie. I love the story. When it came to me, you Know, there's certain things, if you're lucky in a career, you can look to certain sort of red letter days, which are certain roles that come along. And if you're lucky, you find these roles, you know, and you're able to do them. That. That. That you really look at as hallmarks of your. Of your. Of your career. And this is one of them, because everything came together on this one in such a wonderful way. And ending with angel, by the way, being our distributor, because it kept going. You know, we were. We were supposed to. We made this movie three years ago, man. And that's. Sometimes people look at that as like, oh, what's wrong with the movie? There was nothing wrong with this movie. That just Covid. Two prolonged strikes, then the global recession, which led to a giant contraction in our business, you know, and those were the. Those were the catalysts for the contraction. And then a big logjam in terms of trying to get anything through. You know, I went to tiff two years ago. Like, five movies sold, and there were like 250 movies there. It's just, you know, it was a log jam. And finally we found angel was the perfect group to put out this movie. So, look, you know, every minute's a new minute, Adam. You know, every minute's a new minute.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, well, look, the good. I mean, the interesting thing about life as it is, modern life with. With all the baggage that comes with it is you're, you know, I'm 61, you're 62. And I'm like. I'm like, what's next, man? What are we doing next? Yeah, what's going on? Whereas I grew up, you know, I grew up. Hey, man, it's time to start. Hang it up. You know, you get turned 60, 61, 62. I mean, this is back.

[Michael Chiklis]

Then.

[Adam Carolla]

Get a cardigan sweater.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, exactly. Smoke a pipe.

[Adam Carolla]

You know what I mean? It. Find some slippers and just allow me to quote the.

[Michael Chiklis]

The great Tom Brady. I'm sorry, I'm a New England guy. I can't help it. But his. My favorite response of. His of. Of a question was, what's your favorite championship? And without blinking an eye, he said, the next one, Right? And I just. That's the way to live your life. Like, you know, you're not. And again, just because I'm 62, I. I've got a lot of pissing vinegar in me still. And as long as I feel like I can put out, for lack of a better expression, that's what I'm going to do. I'M always into the next thing.

[Adam Carolla]

So your dad was a hairdresser and by the way.

[Michael Chiklis]

Series of dichotomies. He was a tough guy from the Acre in Lowell.

[Adam Carolla]

I was. Lowell, yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

I'll tell you that. I'll tell you the thing. Lowell's not Boston.

[Michael Chiklis]

No. It's a little big city and it's tough.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, I've been there. And the thing about hairdressers, it's kind of an interesting thing because it used to be a man's job and it wasn't.

[Michael Chiklis]

It was the generation man. He was part of that shampoo culture. You know what I mean?

[Adam Carolla]

Like the movie. Yes.

[Michael Chiklis]

I called him Daddy O. You know, he was a cat.

[Adam Carolla]

I think Sylvester Stallone's dad may have been a hairdresser. Somebody's got to look that up. But it was a lotharious job. Like, it wasn't a gay job. It was a straight job where you liked women.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, back.

[Adam Carolla]

Back then.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

And it was. And it was kind of a profession, you know, it wasn't really like a default, you know, thing where you're working at a place called Sport Cuts and you're making 14 bucks an hour. It's kind of a mill.

[Michael Chiklis]

And he was innovative. He went down to New York to study it, and he studied, apparently, next to this kid named Vidal Sassoon, and he stole his ideas. This really was saying, I'm going to do this in New York and I'm going to do that internationally. And he basically came up to the Little Merrimack Valley in. In. In Massachusetts, and he opened the first unisex beauty salon.

[Adam Carolla]

Beat Al did.

[Michael Chiklis]

No. And it ended up being a smash hit because everything was either barbershops or salons, and never the Twain. And he made a unisex beauty salon, which is this massive place, and it was. It's called Talk of the Town, and it was a big hit. And, you know, it was a place to be. I grew up in that shop, and it was really a cool spot to be. It was jazz playing all the time, back room, the guys looking at Playboy and smoking cigars.

[Adam Carolla]

Scotch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's funny.

[Michael Chiklis]

Different time.

[Adam Carolla]

I literally. Stallone's father was a hairdresser.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

By the way, those were dude jobs back then. I literally just got my hair cut at one of those places that ends in the word clips. Smart clips, great clips, sports clips. I literally got my hair cut an hour ago. And I timed it because I'm like, how fast?

[Michael Chiklis]

Because they're like. It's like they Got a dynamic science.

[Adam Carolla]

They take the shears out and they just do like a sheep with me. I timed, took 11 minutes for me to get my. I mean, I walked out of my car and I walked back to. I was getting into my car to look, it was 11 minutes. That's how fast that is. So no scotch, no Playboy, no hot dogs.

[Michael Chiklis]

This was like an afternoon, you know, you talk to the boys and the women were out front and you know, they're outside, by the way, you know, and I went to my father's funeral and. Which was hard enough and you think, you know a guy. I mean like literally over a thousand people showed up.

[Adam Carolla]

Really?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, because you know the expression pillar of your community. As it turns out, my father was there for his whole entire life and he had business there his entire life. And everybody knew him and everybody came.

[Adam Carolla]

What about the irony of the bald son out making it big in Hollywood? I mean that had to be kind of a weird. There must have been conversations with him a lot, right?

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, when I first, when it first happened, I came to him, I was like, dad, what's the matter with me? What's happening? And I told him and he was like, oh no, I can't even help you, you suffocated your follicles. My father was a really fascinating character when I think of him, because he's a series of dichotomies. My dad, he was like, I say a tough guy from the Acre, but yet he was a Greek. So his innately philosophical, you know, had me reading Socrates at a very young age and all the different philosophers. And he would occasionally come up with a profundity, like, I mean again, an autodidact. A kid from the street, but really self taught. A lot of constantly reading and talking about different things. And you know, I think about him, I'm fascinated by him as a person because I said to him once, dad, how is it that a guy like you from this place, like allowed your son to go to a private university, Boston University, to become an actor? How did that happen? Like, and he looked at me and he said, michael, do you think if it wasn't who you were, I would have allowed it?

[Adam Carolla]

Right?

[Michael Chiklis]

Which is awesome. Really, that kind of like a lot of people would have, would not have allowed it. But he had, you know, he was kind enough and genteel enough to see that, hey, I can't picture you doing anything else. It's who you are. So I'm going to support you. I'm not going to just sit on your head and try to make you do something else.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, well, I feel like as a society we've sort of learned that and we put an emphasis on it now. But back then there was a lot of.

[Michael Chiklis]

You did what, you know, you were dictating.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I mean, just, just an example. An example that sounds like it's not connected, but it is. And it has to do with football.

[Michael Chiklis]

I love that you keep coming back to seeing football.

[Adam Carolla]

I, I played about, I played 11 years of organized tackle football and I was, you know, I got all Val and stuff like that, but I wasn't going anywhere. But, but I got some trophies and stuff and I realized I'm left handed through and through. I am in a right handed stance my entire life, right hand down. I always found that interesting and I like it better that way. But I realized when I showed up to the East Valley Trojans in 1973, Pop Warner football at age 7 and tried to get into a football stance with my left hand down because I'm left handed, some dude in the windbreaker came by and kicked my hand. Put your other hand down.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

And I went, this feels I'm left hand, you know. And they go, hey, hey, we do it with the right hand. Now put the right hand down. And they just turn me around. You know what I mean? They would do that if you were gay. Hey, knock it off.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

There's your new wife.

[Michael Chiklis]

You're do it this way.

[Adam Carolla]

You do it this way. So we didn't put up with stuff. We just went, you're not going to be an actor. You stay here. Yeah. You learn how to do it this way.

[Michael Chiklis]

This is the way it works in our situation.

[Adam Carolla]

And now we go, what do you want to do? What are your proclivities? What are your loves? What are your passions?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, where's the applause coming from too?

[Adam Carolla]

But when you talk to actors, comedians or whatever of a certain age, you know, it's hit and miss with the supportive parents. And it was very.

[Michael Chiklis]

Mainly miss.

[Adam Carolla]

Very progressive for your dad back in those times to be supportive of that.

[Michael Chiklis]

Mainly miss. Because people look at it, you know, when my father even admitted, he said, it's like, you know, my, I talked to my own father, my grandfather, and he said, how are you letting him do this? It's a crapshoot. You know, he's like, look, can you imagine him doing anything else? He's been standing in front of audiences his whole life. That's what he, he loves it. It's what he does. It's what he's pursued and it, and he's good at it and people are responding that way. I just can't, you know, I understand why he wants to do it. So he saw that and instead of again, he backed me, instead of trying to push me to be, you know, a lawyer or a hairdresser.

[Adam Carolla]

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[Michael Chiklis]

Woo.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, you know the jingle. These guys, they keep your car on the road so you don't end up stuck on the shoulder looking like a dope or worse, stuck in lanes, dodging traffic. Friendly, helpful service people who actually know their stuff, not just some kid who'd rather be on his phone or somewhere else. Now, O'Reilly, good folk, smart, know their business, courteous. That's where I get all my auto parts. And not just the parts, the fluids and everything else. Thousands of parts and accessories stocked in store and online so you don't have to panic when the check engine light comes on. Not with O'Reilly Auto Parts. So whether you're a gearhead or you don't know a lug nut from a donut, they'll walk you right through it. No attitude, just real help. Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit us online at O'ReillyAuto.com Adam that's O'ReillyAuto.com Adam.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Michael Chiklis]

By the way, I want to talk about another thing about about and sons because this is another fascinating topic to me. Sorry to take over the show here, but. But I want to talk about the term. I fucking hate this term. It's Nepo, baby. Because in every profession it's and sons or and family.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. Like if you're a mover or if you're, well, law firms work that way. But also, like, they would do that with like plumbers and carpenters and movers.

[Michael Chiklis]

Can you imagine walking into a plumber and going like, wait a second, you're his son. You can't fix my sink.

[Adam Carolla]

Right.

[Michael Chiklis]

He's like, what the. I've been under sinks my whole life. I grew up under a sink next to my old man. What are you talking about? But if somehow it's show business it's you're a Nepo baby or somehow being given it. And in fact. In fact. And I wanted people to hear this and dispel this horseshit, they're scrutinized ten times more closely.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

Like, oh, your father's so and so. Then, you know. And, you know, I say this because I have two children in this business, and they're fucking incredibly talented and they're thriving. But, you know, they hear it, you know, like any. Like, you know, my youngest has the greatest answer to this, which is when I hear it thriving.

[Adam Carolla]

Right. Well, I want to talk about that then. And. Yes. And there used to be. And sons. And there was also established in 1941 or since, you know, and that was quite.

[Michael Chiklis]

Which means it's a family business. You knew what you were doing.

[Adam Carolla]

The guy was a plumber, and it said, you know, johnson Family Plumbing and Sons established 1928. All right. Fucking guys know how to sweat a pipe.

[Michael Chiklis]

Exactly. Right? That's my point.

[Adam Carolla]

Right now, your son doesn't.

[Michael Chiklis]

I have two daughters.

[Adam Carolla]

Two daughters. Oh, I'm sorry.

[Michael Chiklis]

That's okay.

[Adam Carolla]

Right. So they don't. Now, here's. But here's the.

[Michael Chiklis]

My oldest is a writer, and my youngest is an agent.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, really?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. I guess she kept on seeing the bigger houses, and by the way, they.

[Adam Carolla]

Go by Copeland, so they didn't want any.

[Michael Chiklis]

Actually, my kids for a while have been like, dad, no offense, but, you know, I got to make my own bones, and they're doing their own shit, and I get that. But I can't wait until we're able to work together again because so that, you know, they've worked beyond that because they're making their own bones and they're killing it.

[Adam Carolla]

So how was your mom?

[Michael Chiklis]

My mom was the most supportive person in the world. She was amazing.

[Adam Carolla]

Wow. You had two great parents.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, I was lucky. I was lucky.

[Adam Carolla]

Let me ask you a question. Sandwich related. Because it's something that I do on this show.

[Michael Chiklis]

Sandwiches.

[Adam Carolla]

I was talking to Dr. Drew about this earlier today, which was. I started distilled moms down into sandwiches because a sandwich is food, but it's effort, too. You know what I mean?

[Michael Chiklis]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

And so people go, how was your mom? She got a couple of pieces of white bread, put American cheese on it.

[Michael Chiklis]

She threw it out. I'm Greek, man.

[Adam Carolla]

These are guys who toast. Toasting gets you to another strat if they're toasting things.

[Michael Chiklis]

All right, you let me lay it out for you. First of all, I spend a lot of time in the Kitchen. I love it. It's my therapy. I. I have a vegetable garden. You know, I believe in it. I think it's a phenomenal way to live. And I love the effort that it takes to make a beautiful meal. And I don't want you to just enjoy what I cook. I want you to moan. I want you to moan like it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to you. So I'm. There's effort put into it, and that comes from both my mother and my father, when I eight years old, were like, hey, if you're going to grow up in the world, you got to be able to feed yourself. So come on. And they brought me in the kitchen. I spent a lot in my yaya. My grandmother, she taught me how to cook. And there's just a thing about it that my mother. If you're going to ice, you know, crystallize it down to sandwiches. If she made you a sandwich, I mean, she made the bread from scratch. It was. Yeah, yeah. You're going to start.

[Adam Carolla]

What was. It's too late. I already am. What was her sandwich? What would she do?

[Michael Chiklis]

Oh, she made a lot of different sandwiches, but she. You know what? Usually she would make a sandwich out of a great leftover, like.

[Adam Carolla]

Like meatloaf.

[Michael Chiklis]

Like. Yeah. Like if she made, you know, like a. In Greek, we call it a stifado, like a pheasant stew, for instance, and there was some pheasant that was cooked. She would make it into the equivalent of like a chicken salad. But it was a different right tack on it. You know, she'd do pulled pork and, you know, and then she'd make that.

[Adam Carolla]

So we give your mom one to ten in the sandwich department.

[Michael Chiklis]

10, 11.

[Adam Carolla]

All right, so that's it. See, that's good. It's good because what you. What you never have is a 10 in the sandwich department. And then go. But was she supportive in terms of your career now that. Never saw a show. I did. See what I mean? It's. It's all encompassing. It's like she would be cheering you on at the Little League game and showing up.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

Right now, by the way, conversely, she put the pickles. No sandwich. No sandwich means also not in the stands at the Little League game. It's an effort. It's a metaphor.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

For how? How into this. The sandwich.

[Michael Chiklis]

Sandwich as the metaphor for life. Holy shit. You are transformed.

[Adam Carolla]

It is very. I would say this. I'll just put it to you this way. It is very rare that someone would go, my mom didn't make me sandwiches, and she wouldn't, and she didn't give a shit. But she cheered me on and was my biggest fan and was at every ball game. And later on, when I got that series, she would tell, that doesn't exist, and the other way doesn't exist.

[Michael Chiklis]

Genius. That's brilliant. I've never in my life even contemplated that. But I love that. By the way, my mother is a series of dichotomies as well. She was an opera singer, and then she went into horticulture. So she believed in the ethereal and then the ground. And she, like, believed in being well read. She brought me to the Boston Pops and what? Believed in culturing your children and all that. But she also wanted me to play football. She wanted me to play baseball. She wanted me to, you know, eat a cup of dirt, you know, Right. As it were. You know what I mean?

[Adam Carolla]

So you. So you.

[Michael Chiklis]

I'm a weird guy.

[Adam Carolla]

No, you felt. I think you have a great base to go into the profession that you went into. And it's probably why you were covered so much ground so early, because a lot of people who come from bad sandwich families wrestle with their worth. You know what I mean? Like, what business do you have?

[Michael Chiklis]

That's the greatest thing ever.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

No, I get it. I can't buy. My father could make a hell of a sandwich, too. Even invented a sandwich. His father was a butcher, and he made the Market street special. He had a. He had a. He had a butcher shop on Market street, and it was basically his version of the Philly cheesesteak. It was a cheese steak sandwich. But instead of using. They didn't do grilled peppers. They did mushroom, onion chopstick, lettuce, tomato, a little bit of mayo, salt and pepper, big, fresh French roll. Slice it, eat that shit. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Like, so good, right? And the thing is, they'd sweat every part of that. So. Both my parents sweat the sandwich men. So. Holy shit. Your theory is pretty amazing.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, you know, conversely. But. But it's so. It's an interesting thing. So I was Talking to Drew, Dr. Drew earlier. Earlier today.

[Michael Chiklis]

You dropped that earlier.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. And, well, I'm resetting.

[Michael Chiklis]

Resetting.

[Adam Carolla]

And, you know, I originally laid my sandwich theory out on Drew, you know, and I said, where are you at with the sandwich? And I know Drew's family. I know his mom was. And that kind of stuff. And he said I was in shit sandwich category. Like, bare minimum, least effort, least you could make to feed someone a sandwich. You know what I mean?

[Michael Chiklis]

Kid or something.

[Adam Carolla]

He Just his mom was a little wacky and into her own. She was into herself a little more than her kids, let's put it to you that way. So then I go, well, I come from zero sandwich territory, which is, you can get worse than shit sandwich. You can get to zero.

[Michael Chiklis]

No sandwich.

[Adam Carolla]

You can. No sandwich. I was sort of in a no sandwich zone. My mom didn't do sandwiches. I know. I lay on my feet. But the thing that was interesting is I said I wasn't talking to him about sandwiches. I woke up this morning and I had this thought. My mom passed about two or three years ago. My dad passed, I don't know, six, eight months ago. Find it. Long life. And I started thinking, they passed away, and there was no ceremony of any kind at all. No wake, no funeral, no gathering, no brunch.

[Michael Chiklis]

Oh, wow.

[Adam Carolla]

No, you know, let's. Let's all go meet at Olive Garden, the six People and remember dad or Mom. So I said as I started thinking to myself, from a percentage standpoint, whose parents die? And there's. It's zero burger. There's nothing. We haven't done anything. There hasn't been. I haven't talked to anybody. No one's talked to me. They're gone. So.

[Michael Chiklis]

So.

[Adam Carolla]

I said to Drew, I said, that's gotta be really statistically peculiar, right? He goes, yeah. For nothing. There was no sandwich. Nothing, right? So he goes. So I go, what about you? Cause your family's a little screwed up, too. And he goes, they would do a little something, but it wasn't right, and it was weird, and it was, whatever. And then I went, oh, shit sandwich. And he goes, yeah. And then he goes, no sandwich for you. And I was like, that's right. Nothing. But it's interesting.

[Michael Chiklis]

I feel bad. I had a Dagwood, man. I had a motherfucker. I had the Market street special.

[Adam Carolla]

You can take nothing past the grave, which is. They were so consistent in their nothing, that when they died, there was nothing. And, you know, all right, you're dead. But I mean, people have wishes. You know what I mean? Like, I want my ashes scattered over Wrigley Field or something. No conversations, nothing. They died as they lived, with nothing. That's all right. But. But consistently a zero. That's what a zero sandwich sandwiches family looks like.

[Michael Chiklis]

Wow. I kind of come from the opposite of that.

[Adam Carolla]

You are a ten sandwich family. And that's rare. That's rare.

[Michael Chiklis]

Incredibly rare. And I knew it, too, you know? Although. Hey, wait a second. Just full disclosure. My parents divorced when I was A freshman in college. So there's that. My parents were incredibly support. They remained. I think that they just married really early. They married when they were like 19, and next thing you know, by the time they were 24, they had two kids, ton of responsibility, did everything right. And then by the time I was the youngest, I moved into college. It was, you know, they were different people at that point, you know, but they remain civil. They both dance together at my wedding, you know. All right, you know.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, commendable.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, incredibly commendable. And you always remained very, like, incredibly supportive and made the sandwich. They. They made and. And everyone showed up like, we have a word in Greek. It's my favorite word. It doesn't translate directly into English. I mean, I suppose it does a company, but it. The word is paria and it means life in my house. Kids and dogs and action and food and all of that. So that's why, you know, a thousand people show up. By the way, my father's wake must have been a super spreader because he died one week before the shutdown. And I think of myself standing there from 12, no, seven in the morning till about, I don't know, sometime in the afternoon, hours and hours, just one person after another, you know, touching hands, kissing cheeks. Yeah, that was a Covid spreader.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. I had a sad Sabbath, your happy memories with sad thoughts. But I did. I had a sad thought, which. I had a good friend from high school named Jeff Katz and we kept up after high school and he ended up going back to Utah or moving to Utah.

[Michael Chiklis]

Is that where you grew up?

[Adam Carolla]

No, no, I shouldn't, I shouldn't. I grew up in North Hollywood, but. But he ended up. Jeff Katz, ended up in Utah. And at some point I was doing some shows out there a few years ago, and he said, I'm out there. And I said, let's have a beer before the show, got together and reminisce and good times and all that. And he just died suddenly. And he was a young guy and he died and I was like, oh, man. Jeff. Because you remember him from high school, you know what I mean? Like that guy. And he. He's dead and rattles you. Yeah. And we wanted to. Son got hold of me. Jeff always loved you. And we were trying to get a thing together. And then because of COVID it was just like, couldn't. It was like, he's gone. We never did a thing. There was never a thing.

[Michael Chiklis]

I'm thankful that my dad passed when he did, because if he. One week later, I wouldn't have been able to go to Boston to bury him.

[Adam Carolla]

Right. I wouldn't have been able to do it. And it just popped into my head the other day. It's like, ah, Jeff Katz. Like, oh, so sad.

[Michael Chiklis]

I was just driving. We didn't get a chance. Waves and later on oftentimes, like, you know, especially when you get to our age, you know, you know, people pass and they, they get sick and they pass away and you know, I lost my best friend five years ago. Not to Covid. It was just before. I've lost a lot of people in my life. Hate fucking cancer. You know, just so many different things. And it's particularly shocking when someone has like a widowmaker and, and just, you know, suddenly dies. It's, you know, it's stunning. Especially my wife had one of her best friends pass away. A female. Unbelievable shape. Why are we getting really. We're getting dark here, man.

[Adam Carolla]

We had Happy sandwich dog.

[Michael Chiklis]

Happy Sandwich, Grim reaper. Well, she passed away swimming in her pool. And she was like an Olympic level athlete. And she. If you put the all of our friends in a list, she would have been at the very bottom of people who we thought would pass away.

[Adam Carolla]

Right.

[Michael Chiklis]

Like vital, full of life, you know, was just one of her aorta totally clogged. Didn't know it. Yeah, I mean early, early warning. Go and look. Go and get the dye. Look. Prevention.

[Adam Carolla]

Yes. Ounce.

[Michael Chiklis]

That's my public service announcement.

[Adam Carolla]

So interesting upbringing. And in a positive, which is good.

[Michael Chiklis]

But not all positive. I mean, we had our shit. My parents divorced, that kind of stuff. I mean.

[Adam Carolla]

But yeah, but you brought a joie de vivre, a zest for life, like sort of into your own home.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, that's very much again, my parents, particularly my dad, My dad just. Man, he knew how to live. And my wife is a liver, you know, she, you know, like when things were the worst in. Throughout our. Our marriage. We've been together now 35 years and you know, you know, there are just huge ups and downs in this in show business. There just are. I don't care who you are. And like sometimes when things were at their worst, my wife would turn to me and go toga, you know, referring to Belushi and Animal House. And that meant let's throw a party because, you know everything's shitty. Let's throw a toga party. And she still does that.

[Adam Carolla]

Really?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, she'll turn to me and go toga. And I love that about her, you know. You know, that's the thing about people, you know, as You, You. I've luck. You know, a lot of it is that, you know, you. You have attraction and everything, but then as you get to know someone, you actually know who they are. And at the worst moments, and I just happen to have a wife that at the worst moment makes you laugh your ass off or comes up big. And that's. I don't know, I don't know how to. That's sort of irreplaceable to me.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. I'm starting to think that people are just sort of breeds of dogs. Some are tired, some are lazy, some are happy, some are always seem to be sort of. Some are.

[Michael Chiklis]

Some are jittery. And now we have the dog theory.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I mean, I don't know, Philosopher, you know this.

[Michael Chiklis]

Adam, I'm telling you. Are you Greek? No. Not whether you're Italian with Corolla, but that's the same thing. You know what the difference between a Greek and an Italian is? 90 miles.

[Adam Carolla]

Really?

[Michael Chiklis]

That's it. I mean, we're the same people. I mean, I'm Italian too. I found out at 56 years old when I did a. A 23 in me that I'm 20% Italian. Never knew it.

[Adam Carolla]

Really.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. And my set of my best friends, I got on FaceTime, it was like Bob Pascarella, my best friend from home, I'm like, Bobby, you believe I'm Italian. He starts cracking up, laughing at me because I was like, I was like.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, yeah, you manifest a lot of the Italians sort of talk with your hands and a zest and all that. But I guess Greeks are that way.

[Michael Chiklis]

Same thing. It's the same. Come on, look at that band right there. You can stand in Puglia. And there's Greece, it's right there.

[Adam Carolla]

Why don't you guys have a car?

[Michael Chiklis]

The Greeks.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. I mean with all the innovation and everything. You started and there's roads. Yeah. But there's. You have aqueducts and stuff. You have all goods. You had the base for a good car. Oh, you, you go to Italy, you got Ferrari, you got Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, like the Maserati, it just keeps going. You think, think if you, if someone 2,000 years ago, then someone goes, who's the odds on favor to make a kick ass car? You'd be great Greeks.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right?

[Adam Carolla]

Right. But nothing, nothing.

[Michael Chiklis]

Now we failed in that area.

[Adam Carolla]

Maybe you're too busy partying.

[Michael Chiklis]

No. Well, listen, we do have fun. We do know how to live. That's for sure. Part of the culture.

[Adam Carolla]

Dawson, who's a major fan and has many. I Think. Well, has stories and questions.

[Dawson]

Absolutely. First of all, in the sandwich department, not only should you take the 10 score, but we have to put an asterisk after that because his father invented a sandwich.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Dawson]

And that just takes it to an unreachable level.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like. So when people started.

[Michael Chiklis]

True story.

[Adam Carolla]

People started telling me, like, what? I'd go, what was your GPA? They go, 4.3. I'd go, no, it stops at 4. It stops at 4. They go, no, I got a 4. 3. Right. I'm like, that's what? That's.

[Michael Chiklis]

Everything is apart.

[Adam Carolla]

That's 10 plus.

[Dawson]

Secondly, Michael, my second favorite role that you ever played was of my high school religion teacher, student council advisor, and football coach, Terry Edson. Oh, from Dollas. How high school.

[Michael Chiklis]

Kidding.

[Dawson]

For the movie when the Game Stood Tall.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. I had a great time on that gig. That was good.

[Dawson]

It was such a great movie. Now, there were. When I first saw, you know, who's playing Edson, I gotta be honest, I was like, he doesn't look. How the hell is Michael Chiklis gonna play Coach Edson?

[Michael Chiklis]

And. Pretty good.

[Dawson]

Very good.

[Ian Frisch]

This.

[Dawson]

This is a man who is on the edge of screaming all the time. And in fact, you matched his vocal quality so perfect. He's on the edge of screaming all the time. Except there's just this level of calm.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Dawson]

There's.

[Michael Chiklis]

There's a. A seething, like a simmering. Yeah, yeah, I noticed that immediately. I was like, oh, my God, there's this gonna blow.

[Dawson]

Great scene in. In when the game stands tall, when the Spartans are playing Long Beach Poly and the kids are all just beat the hell up at halftime. And it's Coach Edson who says, you know, go find every bag of ice you can in this stadium. He puts kids in the bathtubs in ice. Ice is the kids so they can get back out on the field, but they don't play them until they're a hundred percent that these kids are ready to get back out there.

[Michael Chiklis]

Perfect. Segue ready. When I was doing the senior. I'm 59 years old in this movie, and I, you know, and he was 59 when this happened. I was turned on to the wonders of the cold plunge, which really do, you know, the cold plunge makes 100 feasible because I, you know, the first day I played football with these kids, 23 years old, and we were smashing into each other. I woke up the next day. I, I, My eyebrows hurt. I was just like, you know, I was like, how am I gonna do this? I have, like, two months of this.

[Adam Carolla]

Right?

[Michael Chiklis]

And, you know, the trainer was like, we got a plunge, and I got into the ice plunge. And the first minute is the worst thing in the.

[Adam Carolla]

I have a cold. I have a cold plunge.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. Okay, cool.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

Right. And. And you know the benefits of it, because after that first minute, it's hilarious, because I actually looked into the physiology involved a little bit of a. I. Let me digress on this for a second. When you get into a cold plunge, like, proper 1, 40 degrees, you think that it's going to be a pekka problem, right? That's what everyone thinks. It's not. It's your. Your. Your hands and your arms and your legs, and. Because all the blood rushes to your organs, to your brain, into your heart and your lungs and liver, and so your arms start to pound, your legs start to throb because. Because there's no blood in them.

[Adam Carolla]

Right.

[Michael Chiklis]

It's just left the building and. But then after a while, you go numb, and it's almost like your body goes, all right, you're dying.

[Adam Carolla]

Right.

[Michael Chiklis]

Accept it.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. How long would you stay in there?

[Michael Chiklis]

10 minutes.

[Adam Carolla]

10 minutes long?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

10 is exceedingly long. In 40.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

40 is low, and 10 is.

[Michael Chiklis]

I have to have a person there because that's a long time, and you really are slipping into hypothermia.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

So you have to have someone go, like, 10 time. That's it. You know, get out.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, he wouldn't have to tell me. I'd be one Mississippi, too, because then, you know, three minutes is. Is fine, and four minutes is long. So 10 is. That's a long.

[Michael Chiklis]

But you know what? The benefit of it is insane because it really gets you cold to your core.

[Dawson]

We had a cold plunge that was in our high school locker room.

[Michael Chiklis]

Terry was your guy. Hi.

[Dawson]

Terry was.

[Michael Chiklis]

Did you play for him?

[Dawson]

I. He was one of my. I never played varsity. He was one of my coaches on jv. He was the athletic director.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, if you play JV for that team, I mean, that's insane team, because that was the best team in the country.

[Dawson]

He. He was my sophomore religion teacher and day one of religious studies at a Catholic school, he comes in and he says, all right, guys, Adam and Eve never happened. Noah's Ark never happened. There are some great lessons and some great stories to learn, and we're going to explore that, but they are stories. And then the last thing he says is, now don't go home and run and tell your parents that your religion Teacher just told you the Bible is fake.

[Michael Chiklis]

Wow.

[Dawson]

And wow.

[Commercial Announcer]

Nobody.

[Dawson]

Because of who Terry Edson is. Not one kid in the class told any of their parents they would never, you know, never anything about it.

[Michael Chiklis]

Whereas that's it.

[Dawson]

I don't think that would happen today.

[Michael Chiklis]

No.

[Dawson]

But all of our football coaches were religion teachers at that high school.

[Michael Chiklis]

Mine were religious. They weren't religion teachers. I didn't go to a Catholic school. But they were, they were devoutly religious. They were really religious. I mean, we prayed before every game, before every practice. But I will say, you know, for the greatest men I've ever known, I have to say, they were wonderful, great mentors, great teachers. You know, religion's an interesting question. That's a whole other podcast.

[Adam Carolla]

It is. And we can, we can do it later, you know, now that you're. I, I didn't know if you were local or not. So, you know, you can come back and we'll do religion.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, I'm local.

[Dawson]

So, boss, the movie when the Game Stands Tall is about the end of a 151 game winning streak from 1992 to 2004. Guess whose senior year ended the first streak, which went about six years. This, this big streak went about 12, 13 years.

[Adam Carolla]

That was your senior year, huh?

[Dawson]

We watched Pittsburgh beat us at the Oakland Coliseum in late 1991. I think it was the end of November, early December is when high school football ended. And I could only imagine how bad those kids felt for not losing a game for seven years. Now it's on you. Well, then it goes again. And, and the, the movie when the Game Stands Tall is how the team come back, comes back together after this soul crushing end to the streak.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, let me segue into this football movie because I'm really, really proud of this one. The Senior is about a guy named Mike Flynn. He's the oldest college football player in the history of college football. And this happened. You know, true story. Some movies say this is basically for New Mexico. No, West Texas. Sol Ross State University.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh.

[Michael Chiklis]

Division to its division.

[Adam Carolla]

Mike August told me New Mexico.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, well, close enough. They're very close. But you know, some movies say this is based on a true story. This one says this is a true story because Mike was right off camera the whole time we shot it.

[Adam Carolla]

Right?

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah. And this guy, when he was a senior in college, he was the captain of his football team and they were supposed to go undefeated. You know, they were great defensive team. He was the captain of the Odessa Permian team that Friday Night Lights is based on. He was the captain of that team. And then he, you know, that they were a big feeder of Sol Ross was the big time. Division two, now they're division three. But when Mike played there and, and when he made his comeback, they were Division 2. And it's West Texas. It's religion. It's, you know, I mean, talk about religion. Football's religion there, right? So, so when he was a senior, his first week there was a freshman out of the dorms, told the kid to get in, you know, that he shouldn't have been out. And the kids said, get, go jump off a bridge. They jumped on each other. He broke the kid's nose. The next day, he was not only thrown off the team, he was thrown out of school. He Left in shame. 37 years later, he gets an invite to a reunion and he thinks he's received it in error. He says to his wife, this has to be a mistake. I didn't even graduate. And his wife's like, no, the boys on the team were looking for you. They want to see you. They've thought of you all these years. Go down there and get this monkey off your back. This is something that's driven you crazy for all these years. It's your one big regret. Go and say you're sorry. And that's why he went down to Texas. He was in Tennessee at that time. He went down to Texas to say, I'm sorry, you guys, I blew your senior year. I'm so sorry for, you know, because I was a hot headed idiot. And I, you know, and they, you know, they were like, dude, we're 59. That was then, you know, we just want to see you, brother. And they, you know, they embraced him. It was like no time had passed. And they, they said, hey, man, you look, you look strapping. You look like you could run with him still. And he's a, you know, he's a strength trainer at Texas A and M. And he goes, well, I probably could. And they were like, well, you know, you're eligible, right? He's like, I'm what?

[Adam Carolla]

Right?

[Michael Chiklis]

And he went, holy. And he got it in his head, well, if I, if I was to try out for this team and make it, maybe I could. I can't change my past, but I can change the meaning of the past. I can make it take on a new meaning and I can sort of exorcise these demons and get it out of my, out of my guts, you know. And that's what he did. And it really is a remarkable story. And it's one of those movies. I know it's a trope, but it'll. You'll. You'll laugh out loud, you'll cry, and then you'll leave the theater feeling like a human. You know, Rob Cordry's hilarious.

[Adam Carolla]

He's great.

[Michael Chiklis]

He's so good, man. Smart, funny, talented. But such pathos in his. In his performance and that. He's a really fine actor. I think some of the best scenes in this movie are between Rob and I.

[Adam Carolla]

We should get him back in here because it's been a minute.

[Dawson]

All right, if I may, one more thing. My favorite role you ever played, Detective Vic Mac, the greatest crime drama ever produced, has a button on the end of it. The first episode blows you away. You're amazing in it. And people talk about the Wire and others. Dude, the shield, hands down, best of all time.

[Michael Chiklis]

Thank you.

[Adam Carolla]

All right.

[Michael Chiklis]

That was a fun one.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, it's good you got a sandwich and a butt licking on the way out. The senior. And that's out in theaters as we speak. Michael, come back anytime. Like I said, you're, you know, five miles away.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah, thanks, Adam.

[Adam Carolla]

We can continue the conversation.

[Michael Chiklis]

Well, you know, I thank you for your enlightenment. I now am a devotee of the sandwich theater.

[Adam Carolla]

You're the top of the leaderboard with sandwiches. I'm gonna break the news to Drew, and it's not gonna feel good. Cause he's in the shit sandwich department. He's at a one. He's at a one. I'm at a zero. You're ten plus Market street special. Take a break. Be right back with news right after this.

[Michael Chiklis]

This.

[Adam Carolla]

All right, well, we all know mornings can be a little chaotic. You're juggling the dog, the emails, the keys. You skip breakfast. Sometimes you just down some coffee. I used to do that. And then I found Huell Black Edition. Seriously, grabbing this on the way out saves my whole morning. Fall is here. So school, work, everything's ramping up. You want a meal, Not a candy bar, not a latte, because you'll immediately feel it. You'll have the drain as soon as you leave the house. Huel spelled H U E L gets it. Their Black Edition powder is a complete meal. So you feel full, focused, and ready for your day. And get this, they just dropped the Huel Daily Greens. Ready to drink. That's right. It's all there in one can. And this just dropped the Huel Daily Greens. Ready to drink. First of its kind. It's your greens, but it's sparkling in a can. No powders no nonsense, just pop and go. It even tastes good and it's got everything that you need in it made by real dietitians. It's Huel, right Dawson?

[Dawson]

Try Huel with 15% off for new customers today by using our code [e-mail] Adam15. Fuel your performance with Huell today.

[Adam Carolla]

Homes.com Some might say Homes.com is the best home shopping site. It may be Homes.com's super comprehensive and transparent agent directory. Or Maybe it's that homes.com is the only site that always directly connects you with the listing agent who knows the home the best. Or Perhaps it's because homes.com has the most in depth neighborhood content of any home shopping site that's extensively researched to highlight the personality of each neighborhood. Homes.com well, they go above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth info they need to find the right home. So if you're an enthusiast like I am and you want to see what's going on out there in the real estate market, I highly suggest homes.com homes.com we've done your homework.

[Dawson]

And now Alcoa presents Definitely Not a.

[Adam Carolla]

Jew on the Adam Carolla show.

[Dawson]

Joe Dateline, Gulfport, Florida. A 29 year old man nicknamed Gizmo.

[Adam Carolla]

Was charged with felony robbery after attacking.

[Dawson]

A 65 year old employee of Family Dollar. He did this while stealing cleaning supplies and goldfish crackers.

[Adam Carolla]

Definitely not a Jew. All right, Mayhem's in studio. He's brought his news, so let's get down to it.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Goldfish crackers, not kosher. Hey, I'm gonna get you fired up right off the bat here, Ace. The daughter of Hollywood bigwigs Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner delivered a speech to United nations about the importance of mask mandates in preventing the surge of COVID 19.

[Adam Carolla]

That's right.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Here's Violet Affleck on the floor of.

[Adam Carolla]

The UN Can I say this? I will say this. It's a weird place to be as a person. But when you meet my mom and my dad, you're not gonna. You'll see him in heaven. But when you see my mom and my dad and then you see my sister and me, you go. People go, oh yeah, not too bad. You turned out okay. I mean, it could have been a lot worse. It could have been a lot worse.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

You know what I mean?

[Adam Carolla]

Just the fact my dad is five foot, you know, my dad was five foot, eight and a half, five foot nine. I'm six, two. Just that alone right there. They weren't attractive people. Let's just put to you that way. And they're able to have kids that were not trolls.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

You saying that she got all the.

[Adam Carolla]

Bad parts of Ben Affleck and all the bad parts? No, no, no. Because she's attractive. She's an attractive person. But when your mom looks like that and your dad. When your mom is one of the best examples of what a woman can look like and your dad is one of the better examples what a man can look like, and then you. They kind of go, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like the same when you. You meet Michael Jordan's son or something and you go, you go, what do you do? And he goes, I own a vape shop. And you go, ah, okay. I thought it, you know, or you know what I'm talking about. Just a lot.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I mean, she got Ben Affleck's butt chin and the ears.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. I'm just saying, I've looked. There's no doubt. My son's gonna have to live a life that, you know, I've condemned him to a life of disappointment. Who's your dad? The Adam Carolla?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

You mean Sonny Carolla, King of all media in 2028.

[Adam Carolla]

That's true. All right. Anyway, she's got thoughts. To the UN about air. Do we have a clip?

[Violet Affleck]

For adults, the relentless beat of back to normal, ignoring, downplaying and concealing. Both the prevalence of airborne transmission and the threat of Long Covid manifested in a series of choices. Young people lacked real choice in the matter and information about what was being chosen for us.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Can y' all pull the life support?

[Violet Affleck]

It is airborne, floating and lingering in the air.

[Adam Carolla]

That's what it sounds like.

[Violet Affleck]

Deceiving damage to almost every cell in the body, from the brain and heart to the nerves and blood vessels. Every subsequent infection increases the risk of long Covid and places people who already have it in greater danger. Here's what we don't know is what it does to reinfect children over and over and over.

[Adam Carolla]

It doesn't do anything to kids.

[Violet Affleck]

We are about to find out. As Dr. Akiko Iwasaki says, at this point, the whole population is the control group. And after only five years, Long Covid has surpassed asthma as the most common chronic illness.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, long Covid.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I am terrified if this is true.

[Violet Affleck]

Do not or soon will not know a world without debilitating pain and exhaustion, who cannot trust their voice bodies to play, explore and imagine. And who will not know the potential of their own minds. Unfettered by the cognitive damage from a COVID 19 infection and I am furious on their behalf. It is neglect of the highest order to look children in the eyes and say, we knew how to protect you and we didn't do it. We have access to a technology to prevent airborne disease. Something that millions of our ancestors. And millions of people around the world today would kill for. And we refuse to use it. And I shudder to think of where we will be in another five years of unmitigated infection and reinfection. But let me say on the topic of generational memory. That while I imagine no one in this room was a lie in this.

[Adam Carolla]

Hold on a second.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Jennifer Gardner took a lot of time.

[Adam Carolla]

If I were in there, and I go, let me tell you where we're gonna be at. First off, I'll tell you where I'm gonna be at. I'm gonna be doing the same shit I'm doing now and enjoying myself. You, like Greta Thunberg, are gonna be onto your next bullshit. Cause that's where you'll be in five years. I'll be here. Drink. You'll be on to your next bullshit.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Cause suffocating with bad haircuts.

[Adam Carolla]

That's where we're at. Greta Thunberg was all about the environment. And now she's all about Palestine. And five years from now, she'll be all about their next bullshit. Cause. And I'll just be here enjoying my beer. So keep going. Also, you know. Or I don't know how much more of this is there.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

There's a whole minute left. I know she was rattling off the fat door.

[Adam Carolla]

Here's the gun. I'll say, here's the guy. Good news. Let me tell you where we're at. Where you want to be at as a young person is someone goes, would you like a hot dog? And then you go, yeah, would I love hot dogs? And then you get the hot dog, and you do it up just how you want to do it. And then you enjoy the shit out of that hot dog. Where we're at now is, you know what's in that hot dog. And you go, what? You know, it's got one part per million cockroach legs. And you go, huh? And you know how they slaughter those cows? It's not. It's a bolt to the head. Have you ever been to a rendering plant? And you're like, fuck. And he put the hot dog down, and now we're miserable. This is a what's in the hot dog generation. You guys have to distill everything down to its smallest part. So at the end of the day you're fucking miserable. And by the way, between the existential threat of climate change and a leader who's hit larian, you are fucked, my lady. You got nothing to look forward to because here's what'll happen. You got a guy who's a socialist dictator, Hitlerian strong arm leader in Trump. He will get you. And if he doesn't get you, the climate will.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

She literally is wearing pearls to clutch him.

[Adam Carolla]

Yes. Enjoy your hot dog. I want to hear a little more of her, though.

[Violet Affleck]

Many of you fought the long and hard battle against indoor smoking. My only memory of that era at almost 20 years old is being confused as a child about the no smoking signs on planes. Who would do that? That's gross. My hope for this event and my belief in this community pressed on the belief that we can and we must do that again. We can recognize filtered air as a human right as intuitively as we do filtered water.

[Adam Carolla]

By the way, Ben Affleck is sitting on a porch looking at his phone somewhere now smoking, going, ugh, this bitch. God damn. He's taking another draw off his cigarettes. Fuck. I remember we used to smoke on planes. That was called the fucking salad days of flight. He's definitely smoking when he's looking at this. All right, sorry. Well, you can pause it. Go ahead. I want to see what she's. Someone at the very end should have went. At the very end. They should just went. I'm sorry, we didn't hear anything you said. Can you take your mask off?

[Violet Affleck]

Is being confused as a child about the no smoking signs on planes. Who would do that? That's gross. My hope for this event and my belief in the this community rest on the belief that we can and we must do that again. We can recognize filtered air as a human right as intuitively as we do filtered water. We can create clean air infrastructure that is so ubiquitous and so obviously necessary. Tomorrow's children don't even know why we need it. We need the people who remember 2020, who were not like me, 14 in 2020 to be loud about the world that we were promised at the onset of the pandemic. When were we and our institutions prompt each other that if we only got out of that desperate, acute phase, we would do everything we could to protect our communities going forward.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, boy, I would feel bad. There's a part of me that feels bad for all these people, except for they're the ones who are getting in my face and trying to tell me what's in my hot dog. And I'm leaving them the fuck alone. I would like them to just suffer in silence, but they won't let you do that. Every fucking Karen that told me to put my mask on when I was walking on a horse trail in the middle of COVID They can't leave it alone.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I knew I was gonna piss you off. Yeah, all right.

[Adam Carolla]

I just. I'm laughing.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Hey, well, let me set your spirits up high, okay? Cause Baywatch is Getting a reboot. 2026, 2027. They already greenlit it. They already. Straight to series. It's coming up. A reboot.

[Adam Carolla]

How much? So here's what I'm saying. Baywatch's. I mean, the real attraction of Baywatch was like, free titties.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

You know, it was the golden era.

[Adam Carolla]

Of that, and it was a thing and it was a novelty, and we couldn't get it everywhere, and people couldn't see hardcore porn on their phones.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

And don't forget the Hoff.

[Adam Carolla]

The Hoff, right. So now that there's free titties on your phone. I know what is alluring about this? I mean, look, these are names, like, these are legacy brands. Ip, they call it. So, like, Playboy is a name that's recognizable around the world, but what's it worth? Because we got free titties on our phone and Baywatch is recognizable around the world, but what's it worth either? We'll find out.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I mean, I would stock this whole thing out with of girls, and it would just be awesome. Like a constant. You know what I mean? Fundraiser every time we went on the air.

[Adam Carolla]

Wait, what's an of girl? Only fans. Only fans.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

It's a revolutionary thing where, yeah, Girls, you know, get tokens for.

[Adam Carolla]

I know what only fans is, but we're shortening everything, like we're in the military.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Well, I was only doing it for your sake because if you say that entire brand name on YouTube, I don't know what the consequences.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, really?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

So I was saying. Oh, you made me say the whole thing.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, you can say only fans. I'm. I guess that's a weird. I don't know if you can make money, not leave the house.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I struggle with it in my head. It's a strange moral dilemma you have where people are paying for that.

[Adam Carolla]

I'm amazed that there's so many people that'll pay for so much stuff.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Well, it's like, personalized. That's why it's a strange thing.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. Okay. So they're bringing back Baywatch, and it's going to be syndicated, I guess. Or is it for?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Well, the original executive producers are in the creators of the original series, Burke, Bonin and Schwartz. And, yeah, his first run, it was like a whole beach life sort of thing. I don't know how they reinvigorated for Fox.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I'm telling you, Hasselhoff, I've never been able to figure this one out. But maybe we tried to get to the bottom of it, but Hasselhoff, Mitch the lifeguard was so into the life of the lifeguard and so at one with the sea that he named his only son Hobie. And Hobie's the name of a Hobie Cat, which is a catamaran, which is a very popular catamaran, like in the 70s also. Hobie Cat, when they do those game shows back in the 70s, you know, and they'd go, the prize winner, prize, the prize package or whatever they. Hobie Cat. A catamaran would be one of the things they'd be giving away. I don't know. I don't feel like there's a high percentage of people who just spontaneously sail. You know what I mean? Like, that's something you plan in advance and you did it in college or something through the 80s.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

But they had that thing on the prices.

[Adam Carolla]

Right.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I always wondered who, like, what do you do with that boat?

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, you sell it. It's what you do immediately. And so you don't have to pay taxes on it. And then you sell it. But the whole point is, he named his kid Hobie.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

And you just let me know about the catamaran, because I thought Hobie was a boogie board.

[Adam Carolla]

Oh, really?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

They made boogie boards?

[Adam Carolla]

Hobie made boogie boards. I believe we'll see what Hobie made. Hobie was an inventor guy out of Germany or something, because I looked him up. But the Hobie Cat was a catamaran, I guess. Hobie and Cat. And then Hobie was the dude's name. And I think it was just German.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

You're talking. It was just a ship with like two pontoons, sort of. Right.

[Adam Carolla]

It was a Cat Moran, which is two pontoons with, like a net in the middle, and a sailor and for some reason. Get it up on the edge.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I rode one before. You know what I mean? Just simple sailing vessel. I get it.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. The Hobie inventor, Hobart Hobie Alter at 33 to 14, a pioneer surfing and sailing. Yeah. Make. Yeah. Inventions. Foam surfboards. Look, what I'm saying is, at some point, I mean, when you're writing this series, you're like, okay, Mitch, super lifeguard mistress is a sea what would his son's name be? And someone would go, I don't know, Carl? No, no, it's gotta be a name. It's gotta be a name that makes you think about the ocean.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Triton.

[Adam Carolla]

It's a little lofty. A little lofty.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Seaweed, plankton.

[Adam Carolla]

Come on, document. Come on.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Let's dig deep here.

[Adam Carolla]

Ah, I know Hobie. Hobie, like Hobie Cat, the guy who invented the Styrofoam surfboard from Germany. And then it'll be one of those perfect names, because most people have no idea why the kid's name is Hobie. But a certain select group of people with hypervigilance, like Corolla, are gonna take that name and go nuts with it and go, Hobie was Hobie Cat spread that beach culture. Well, the name, the Hobie Cat, let's put it to you this way. Let's try to figure this out. The Hobie Cat was all the rage in, like, mid-70s or something. 70, 75, 76.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Now, you saw these in action. Were they out there? Do you ever go to the beach and see one working? Okay, I know you didn't go to the beach.

[Adam Carolla]

I would see. No, you know, where I would see things. I'd see things in, like, Chips episodes where, like, Punch on his weekend, you know, he'd be out enjoying the Southern California bachelor lifestyle. You know what I mean? Of course. And so that was. You'd see. They'd have him, you know, on his. They put it either on game shows, they would sell prize packages, or if it was a TV show and it was like Southern California, they'd show the guy, you know, going by in the cause that it was. It signified the freedom and the weather and the light. You know, it's so people in Wisconsin in the middle of November could look at it, go, God damn it. It was sublime.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

It was sublime. Like in me, with. With me, I heard Sublime in North Carolina, the band and the band. And to me, that was what everybody in California was like, and that's what they did, and that's what they hung out doing. And when I got here, I went, right, okay, so.

[Adam Carolla]

So I'm going to do some back. Some reverse engineering. Hobie, Mitch Buchanan, who was. I think that was Hasselhoff's Mitch Buchanan. That show was at the height of its power. When was that show at the height of its power? 1990.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

93, I think.

[Adam Carolla]

4 is when it launched. It was before that. Baywatch is like, I don't know, 89, 90, really. 91.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

But it was like, getting its footing.

[Adam Carolla]

In, like, before that. Hobie 96 was the most popular. I'm not asking what the most popular. It started.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

Earlier. And then it got syndicated. Well, it started and it died, and then it got picked up again. It got syndicated because it was on after school.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Oh, my God. We were chubbed up.

[Adam Carolla]

What year. Just what year did Baywatch begin? That's all. I don't know. 89. Okay, there you go. Go, 89. I'm never. I'm always right.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

We know, bud. We know. That's why we're sitting here.

[Adam Carolla]

All right, 89. Okay. His son was, like, 12 or 13 years old. His son is in prime Hobie naming years is what I'm saying. His son was born in 77, you know, and is right in the middle. And Hasselhoff's Mitch Buchanan would probably be just sitting in his. His tower, his lifeguard tower, looking out at a guy on a Hobie Cat going through the bay, and he's like, I shall name my first and only son Hobie after the Hobie Cat. Okay, Is there. Is there a female on the planet that's ever had this conversation that I just.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

No, definitely not. And if it was a girl, he would have named it Body Glove.

[Adam Carolla]

Would you say, Dawson, just zero, Right? Like, this is not over.

[Michael Chiklis]

Under.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, there's no over. It's just that the answer, the correct answer is zero. Female. No. There could have been a female, like, segment producer in the room when this is discussed at the writers table, and.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

She would have put.

[Dawson]

She would have been like, what?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam Carolla]

All right. And then at some point, she'd do what all females do, and she. At some point, you'd explain it to her and she'd go, okay, who cares? And that might be that. And that's why we know, ladies. That's why we know more shit, because we care. Was Hobie named after Hobie Cat?

[Dawson]

I mean, we'll find out. But, you know, in that I, I, I can't imagine there's any group of women who ever had a conversation about the movie Beastmaster, either.

[Adam Carolla]

You're right, then.

[Dawson]

No chick ever said Kodo and Podo thieves.

[Adam Carolla]

No, no, no. They were like, Kodo and Podo? Was that the Milli Vanilla guys? Is that somebody else? Yeah. The Beastmaster is the most homoerotic film ever, because those prison guards are just leather fags from back in the day. That's all they are. It's a gay man's dream. It's a heterosexual man's nightmare, but it's a gay man's well built dudes clad in leather diapers and high boots, like chasing you all through a castle and masked faces. Yeah, yeah. The wise gimp mask on. Yeah. All right, let's do another.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Hey, we got another one. Ray J made a shocking claim that he's working with the feds building a RICO case against Kim Kardashian and her mother, Kris Jenner.

[Adam Carolla]

All right. Yes. Hobie, the son of main character Mitch Buchanan on Baywatch was named after the real life surfer entrepreneur Hobart Hobie Alter. There you go.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Oh, here's Ray J admitting that he is a snitch with the feds.

[Adam Carolla]

This federal rico though, on KK and Chris, the federal RICO I'm about to drop on Chris and Ken is about to be crazy talking about I'm on the news every day, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Meaning, like, I'm gonna say a lot of. Anybody know Kim and cool with Kim?

[Michael Chiklis]

They need to tell her now.

[Adam Carolla]

The rain is coming. The feds is coming. The feds is coming. It's nothing I can do about it.

[Ian Frisch]

It's worse than Diddy.

[Adam Carolla]

It's worse.

[Ian Frisch]

It's worse than Diddy.

[Adam Carolla]

Y' all hear this nigga boy. It's worse than Diddy. Hold on. Pause for a second.

[Michael Chiklis]

Would you.

[Adam Carolla]

Would your head explode if the chick was like, you know, in Baywatch, Mitch Buchanan's son. Yeah. He had a son named Hobie, right? Yeah. Well, hold on. I'm talking about Kim. I know she wasn't named after shit. Hobie was named. What is he talking about? Is it about the porn film?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

That was 20 years ago.

[Adam Carolla]

I know, but was it some sort of man act thing or something like underage or something? I mean, what is the RICO act gonna be enacted for? It's a racketeering.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

This story is just Ray J talking gibberish on a stream. So maybe he's saying nothing or maybe there's some merit to this, but it looks like he's drinking Lean.

[Adam Carolla]

Let me tell you this. Whether it's your ex boyfriend or your ex wife or something, the worst thing that can happen is them have nothing to do after you because you are what you're their job. You know, what you want is like get remarried immediately, launch your own brand of activewear, and you never fucking hear from them again or do nothing. And their job is just to talk about you essentially and figure out ways to get money from you. And then you get really successful and then they just hang out and figure out ways to do stuff.

[Dawson]

That's Pretty much the political environment we're in right now.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

You're meeting home right now.

[Adam Carolla]

To me, it's what I do with Jimmy. Sit around, figure out ways to get paid. Federal investigation volunteer Kim K have centered on her 2022 settlement with the SEC over an undisclosed crypto promotion or something. I don't know.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Yeah. So it's just Ray J talking. Ray J. We'll see, right?

[Adam Carolla]

I know. And it's always this thing, too, with guys like this. They go, he's a rapper, he's a producer, he represents artists, he develops. How come you don't just do that shit then? And fucking stop? Get over the. I was Kim's boyfriend.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Yeah. I made a sex tape with her 20 years ago.

[Adam Carolla]

26 years ago, I was her boyfriend. Like, Jesus Christ to fuck. Get on with it. Just get on with it. I mean, it would be funny and interesting if the feds raided the Kardashian compound. You know what I mean?

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

That's why this is the story, because we all have that. The Diddy raid in our head. Kim and them get pulled out in their underwear. Be pretty exciting.

[Adam Carolla]

I am such a babe in the woods that every time I hear about the mom putting the tape out and stuff like that, I just go, oh, come on. She wouldn't. That's her daughter. She wouldn't do that. People go, so naive, Adam, so naive. And then I just go, no, come on. Nobody mom would put a porn tape out with her daughter.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

It is bizarre.

[Adam Carolla]

But I think the consensus is she did. Yeah.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

I think that Ray J kind of had confirmed that a few times. And Kanye as well, I believe.

[Adam Carolla]

So.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

It was like one of those things where, yeah, she really did sell that to ascend to this higher level of celebrity and really worked out for her.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, I suppose we could cut her some slack, you know, if somebody said, listen, we have a tape of your son doing some pretty. Pretty gay porn. I don't want to bring my daughter into this. And I was like, all right, well, what are we talking about here? And they'd go, well, it's going to generate millions of dollars, you know? And I'd go, wow, it sounds like some pretty righteous gay porn. And they'd be like, yeah. And I'd go, well, I don't wanna condone this. And then they'd go, oh, but it's coming out anyway. I mean, there's nothing you can do to stop it. Well, in that case, I would go, well, then let's get the boy paid. You know what I mean? I mean, if it's coming out, then it's coming out. Yeah. Now, if I can stop it, I'll stop it. But if it's coming out with or without me, then yes.

[Michael Chiklis]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

Let's get paid.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Yeah. I think that that was what happened, I believe.

[Adam Carolla]

Mm.

[Jason 'Mayhem' Miller]

Yeah.

[Adam Carolla]

All right, we got Ian Frisch on the zoom line inside the cartel. He's a writer, very interesting journalist, Very been deep, deep cover stuff. So we'll get all inside the cartels, and a lot's going on with that now, especially if they're going to be designated terrorist organization. We'll talk to a guy who knows it firsthand. Thanks, Mayhem. And we'll do that right after this. American Giant. Well, I got this hoodie. Yeah, check it out. And I wore it nearly every day because it's made so well. Seems like everything wears out so fast these days. But not this thing. It's still alive and kicking. It's gonna be going for a while. Things aren't cheap these days, so getting value matters. American Giant delivers their greatest hoodie ever made name. Well, it says it all. Tough, heavy, sewn right here in the US Of A. Not like the fast fashion junk. Buttons pop, seams rip. They end up in a landfill. That's not what American Giants is about. Now, jeans, tees, hoodies. It's not just about hoodies. It's about jeans and crewnecks. And solid is Sears. I mean, the Sears from your childhood, all made to last. You're buying American, supporting real jobs, not just some faceless corporation overseas. Quality matters, community matters. American ingenuity matters. Not just words. It's action. It's American Giant. Right, Dawson?

[Dawson]

Support American made terror. Free clothing with American giant. Get 20% off your first order when you use promo code [e-mail]. that's 20% off when you use code [e-mail].

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[Dawson]

It's time to check Adam's voicemail. Ace Man, I was listening to your.

[Adam Carolla]

Old Dr. Drew shows that talking about.

[Dawson]

Women who return their dress after wearing it one time, the man equivalent.

[Adam Carolla]

Buying a power tool for one job.

[Dawson]

And then returning it get it done. You can leave us a message at 888-634-1744.

[Adam Carolla]

Never done it. It's immoral. That's why people shouldn't do that stuff. It's immoral. Ian Frisch is our guest. He's via Zoom. Inside the Cartel's the name of the book, and it's an inside look at how an undercover FBI agent smuggled cocaine and laundered cash and dismantled a Colombian narco empire. Good to see you, Ian.

[Ian Frisch]

Adam, thanks for having me.

[Adam Carolla]

So what's, you know, so what's going on with the narco empires these days? Because we're bombing drug boats and we're declaring that these. We're giving them terrorist designations, which changes the whole rules of engagement. And things have changed quite a bit recently. So what's your thoughts on that?

[Ian Frisch]

Well, it's kind of serendipitous that this book comes out right in the middle of this new change within the Trump administration. But we mentioned this in the book, and Martin, being the only FBI agent in history to infiltrate the Colombian drug cartel, has said that from his point of view, the war on drugs never really started. But what we're seeing now, these aggressive, overt actions, and as Martin explained to me, if you hold a hammer, everything's a nail. It sometimes doesn't work best to. To your advantage. You have to do overt tactics and covert tactics, like what Martin did in this book.

[Adam Carolla]

So he embedded and went undercover, and which cartel was it?

[Ian Frisch]

So at first, in 1988, when Martin first became an FBI agent, he was tasked with going undercover and infiltrating the Medellin cartel, which at the time was run by Pablo Escobar, the most powerful drug lord of all time. And he posed as a smuggler. He was a Navy officer before, so he could charge a ship and fly a plane. He was very comfortable on the ocean. And it just so happened that those operational and technical abilities were also prized among the cartels because they needed to get as much cocaine as they could from Colombia into the United States.

[Adam Carolla]

So if you. I mean, overt and covert actions we're talking about, what would be. I mean, obviously, having no appetite and no market is probably the best way to dry up a drug cartel. But then also, they're shape shifters, right? They'll do human trafficking or move on to other forms of income, right?

[Ian Frisch]

Well, yeah, of course. I mean, drug cartels care about one thing, and that's profit, and they're going to get it one way or the other. Now, it's much Easier to run a drug empire given the makeup of the world right now. I mean, humans are consumption based creatures we like to consume. And in the world of drugs, obviously drugs are addictive. So it's a pretty good business model to be in if you're a drug cartel. But even if they had no or decreased demand, I believe that the choke point is the money. Again, cartels are profit driven organizations, but if they can't get paid, then their business crumbles. And that's what Martin and the FBI had realized in the early 1990s, which is why in this book he posed not only as a smuggler, but as a money launderer to kind of figure out how the cartels sustained the economic loop that made up their business. And that is kind of still the choke point of the drug trade today is how the cartels get paid. It is the money laundering that is the kind of crucial cornerstone of all this.

[Adam Carolla]

Where are the cartels now in terms of their power versus what may have been the height of their powers in the late 80s or something? Or are they more powerful now than they were back in the day?

[Ian Frisch]

Some people would argue that they're more powerful. And I mean, as you said, they're kind of shape shifters and they're shape shifters not only in terms of product. Whereas in the 70s it was marijuana, then it was cocaine, and now you're getting into fentanyl. It's also about political alliances and geography and methodology and hierarchies. I mean, all these things change over time based on the geopolitical kind of makeup of the North American, South American relationships, what's going on in Europe and stuff like that. But if you look at what's going on today compared to in the late 80s and early 90s, it's kind of the same. They're just, you know, called a different cartel. You know, it's a Sinaloa cartel versus the Medellin, you know, and Mexico is more powerful than Colombia was back then. But, you know, when you break it all down to me, it's all very much the same.

[Adam Carolla]

What is the remedy for this?

[Ian Frisch]

That's a million dollar question, Adam. I mean, if someone had the answer, we probably wouldn't be here. War on drugs 50 years later. I mean, I don't really have a hard and fast answer to that. You know, like I said, China, let's.

[Adam Carolla]

Just say, you know, for, you know, fentanyl and China. And China's, you know, not delivering fentanyl, but they're delivering the elements and ingredients for fentanyl and they're sort of overseeing it, but not actually getting their hands dirty in it. What could we do? Could we do something with China?

[Ian Frisch]

I mean, you probably could. I mean, these sort of political solutions, these diplomatic sort of approaches are maybe above my head in terms of complexity approach. But certainly you're right that it's not just who manufactures and imports this stuff. It is where the raw materials come from. Certainly back in the day with Colombian cartels, they grew their own coca plants and they processed it in the jungles and packaged it, and they were the means of production back then. But now it's an international problem, so it kind of requires a multi pronged approach in terms of. Of remedy. And, you know, it is my opinion that you need overt action, you know, things that you can put on the news, but also covert stuff you don't talk about, and then political and diplomatic as well, because that's really the only way you're going to be able to make a dent in production and supply.

[Adam Carolla]

Do you. I mean, you're not inherently interested in drug cartels or inherently interested in magic? Written another book on that. Magic is dead. But do you just sort of walk around with your head on a swivel looking for interesting subjects and then sort of taking deep dives into them once you've discovered that interesting subject?

[Ian Frisch]

Yeah, I'm a very character focused person. I like to understand people's motivations for doing what they do, especially if it's something more extreme, like going undercover in a cartel or something like that. But I think a through line in a lot of my journalism and book writing is deception. How we deceive others, but also how we in some ways deceive ourselves. So that's kind of an overarching sort of thread throughout all of my work. But certainly in this book, the element of deception is paramount.

[Adam Carolla]

And then for you, is it always writing? So you like deception? And that can take many shapes and forms because people think, well, drug cartels and magicians seem pretty far apart, but they're both in the deception game, right?

[Ian Frisch]

Correct.

[Adam Carolla]

And. And so do you write every day and do you write with an eye towards things that could be translated into a Netflix series and that kind of stuff as well?

[Ian Frisch]

Well, some of my magazine journalism has been optioned by Hollywood and is kind of putting the meat grinder over there and they can kind of see what gets spat out. But for me, I just love telling good stories. I love compelling protagonists who are up against insurmountable awe, and I love to see them work through those conflicts over a three act structure. Kind of hard to find the perfect story in real life, but you'd be surprised at how many great stories are out there that are completely true. And, you know, this is why I had dedicated myself wholeheartedly into telling Martin's story, because it seemed like this sort of David versus Goliath tale of one man who thought that he could take down an entire drug cartel. And to me, that was a pretty compelling sort of pitch. But also too, it was indicative of everything I love about my job. I feel like being able to tell stories for a living and to connect with an audience in that way is a gift for sure.

[Adam Carolla]

So what are some of the more interesting, compelling stories within the book? Danger.

[Ian Frisch]

Oh, geez, there's so many. So when Martin became a smuggler in the eyes of the cartel, he really had to prove himself. He had to prove that he had the technical ability to smuggle large amounts of cocaine. And Martin was like, well, we can do it any number of ways. I have the assets to make it happen. And one of the first loads he did for the Medellin cartel, they had delivered to him $500 million worth of cocaine. But the way that they did it was they flew an airplane in the middle of the night over the Caribbean, and Martin was out there in a boat and they dropped bales of cocaine into the ocean. And these bales were the size of refrigerators, and they're falling from the sky like bombs. And Martin couldn't leave any of the cocaine behind, and he had the full weight of the FBI behind him in terms of other motherships and all these other assets out in the sea. But he's in the pitch black ocean and the swells are coming and the water is coming over the gunwale. And again, you couldn't leave any of the cocaine behind, but Martin was able to do that and bring it all to Miami and then deceive the cartel into taking custody of the drugs. And then a seizure was. Was scheduled and all the guys got arrested. And that's just one story. I mean, that's chapter one of the book. You know, I don't want to give away too much, but in the, in the prologue, we kind of tease the reader with the climax of the book where the book's villain, El Toro Negro, who is a money launderer for the north coast cartel, he sends a sicario or a hitman to Martin's house to kill him after he realized that he wasn't, quote, Manny, the money launderer. And smuggler that he said he was. So Martin had a couple brushes with death, but that one was the most acute, for sure.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. I mean, if you watch the Cocaine Cowboys series, it's kind of nuts what they would, would, would do and how brazen they were and, but also very smart.

[Ian Frisch]

I mean, you know, the way, like in Cocaine Cowboys, they would do handoffs with the car and they'd put the car on a tow truck to make sure that it didn't seem like it was carrying drugs. I mean, when you get up to the higher levels of the cartel, the way Martin did, how they transported cocaine, the kind of methodologies they would use to communicate, you know, all the kind of harebrained ideas that ended up working out in terms of smuggling it in, you know, he saw firsthand, and it was, it was remarkable. And a lot of these guys, when you get up to the high levels of the cartel, they have college degrees, some of them study in the United States. These are well regarded members of Colombian society, and they use their wealth and their family background to kind of bolster the business model of being a drug kingpin. And it worked out for them very well.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, there's a kind of a resourcefulness of criminality that's a kind of a very base kind of intelligence. Like guys in prison can figure out a way to make wine in their toilet. And I don't know. And I suppose you need to be put in that position, like sort of trapped in the wilderness to make a hut for yourself. But you get resourceful, like fast or you die, or you don't get any pruno. But there's a kind of bottom line intelligence that they have that I don't think you get. When you're in sort of this civilized world and you're in too much air conditioning and watching too much TV and staring at your phone, you don't learn to think. They're almost like pioneers and they become super innovative and they have semi submersibles and stuff like that. Like, it's all. And it's sad that it's sort of used for evil because it's really, it's impressive stuff. If they were smuggling anything other than drugs or humans or whatever, if they were just doing this with orchids, you'd go, man, that's the smartest guy, the most resourceful guy. You know, it's almost MacGyver type stuff where you go, that guy's sharp, man. So.

[Ian Frisch]

Well, yeah. And I mean, you know, to that point, it's like when you were growing up in Colombia and you see the culture down there and the economic opportunities, and then you have cocaine just available to you, and all you have to do is just get it to Miami. You know, that resourcefulness really kicks in, and it's almost, you know, second nature to these types of guys who grew up in that culture. But also, back then, it was kind of people like Pablo Escobar were idolized by the common citizenry. And some of the people who began working for the cartels were just chasing an element of stability, I think, in a very unstable world. And it kind of tapped into what you're saying, this sort of baseline resourcefulness that made them really good at what they did.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. I mean, in a weird way, it's like one of those competitions where they go, you get a box of popsicle sticks and some glue, but you gotta make a structure that'll hold the weight of a bowling ball. And it's sort of like saying, all right, we're gonna have a competition. You go to Mexico, everyone gets a sack of flour, and you gotta figure out a way to get into the United States. And they're gonna be looking for this sack of flour. How are you gonna do it? Like, and everyone has to kind of go, I'm gonna weld it into the fender of a car, whatever it is. As a guy myself who's kind of a. Who's a builder, there's a part of me that kind of goes, yeah, yeah, it's pretty sharp, Pretty good. Pretty good one there.

[Ian Frisch]

And I think there's an element of gamesmanship between the feds and the cartels, at least back then. Like, you really wanted to catch them, but you kind of had to tip your hat at some of the things that they did to, you know, deceive you or trick you or to get around the safeguards that federal law enforcement had had at that time, you know? And again, like you said, like, it just goes to show, like, the resourcefulness of people who have a big payday waiting for them just over the other side of the border.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. The Whittington brothers, who are these guys that raced and smuggled drugs in the 80s. They bought road Atlanta, the racetrack, and Road Atlanta I've driven at a couple of times, has one of the longest straightaways in the country in terms of racetracks. And they would fly plane back, two planes, one one for the feds, because they were working with them, but the other one would be their plane filled with drugs. And they would land it in Road Atlanta because they couldn't land it in an airport where there was security and stuff like that around, but just stuff like we're gonna buy a racetrack and we're not gonna buy an airport. That would be suspicious, but we'll buy a racetrack and we'll race at the racetrack, but also we'll land our planes filled with drugs on the straightaway, that kind of stuff. And I don't know, what are some of the crazier stories that are in the book in terms of deception or how they tried to smuggle it. The submersible stuff or the semi submersible stuff is kind of interesting to me.

[Ian Frisch]

Well, there was a route through Mexico called the Mexican Trampoline, where drugs would go from, excuse me, Colombia up to Mexico. They would change hands, and then independent smugglers would get them over the border. That was very popular at the time. But you ran into problems as the Mexican cartels got more popular because they would steal your drugs or kill your crew and sometimes even steal your airplanes. But Martin actually created an airstrip in Puerto Rico where he was able to take a sugarcane field and flatten it and create a landing strip for the Colombian in cartels airplanes. So they used that as well. And I mean, again, he was just mimicking their own resourcefulness. He's like, how can I be a mirror to what they would do if they had these opportunities? So that was a pretty interesting one for sure.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah. So he was able to get through all these years without detection.

[Ian Frisch]

Yeah. So as Martin went deeper undercover, you create assets that live within the kind of alter ego world you've created for yourself. And as Martin got older, he would leverage, leverage those assets into new undercover identities. So he was Manny, quote, unquote, for the first six years of his undercover life doing these two cartel related cases, the smuggling and the money laundering. But his, he was undercover for 23 years, and as he got older, too, he would help other agents go undercover using the same assets that he had amassed himself over the years. Cars, boats, airplanes, bank accounts, apartments, houses, all these sorts of things. But when he was undercover during the late 80s and early 90s, in the span that we cover in this book, it was really about having his teammates and his case agents within the FBI make sure that any of the moves that they made within the world of the cartel, especially when it came to arrests and seizures, were done two or three steps removed from where Martin had an influence. So if the drugs came in and he delivered them, they would wait till the stateside distributor was already on to the next drop off before they did a seizure. Before they seized the drugs and arrested everyone. So then Martin could be like, I did my job. I gave it to your guys. Your guys got arrested. Maybe they were being sloppy. You know, there was always an element of deflection baked into how. How the FBI conducted the kind of law enforcement public side, where they did the seizures and made the arrest, which would keep his cover intact.

[Adam Carolla]

Who's the leaders in the cartel world now? Is it just Mexico and what's Colombia like? What's Venezuela like? Who are the players?

[Ian Frisch]

I think, based on my knowledge and based on exports, I still think that Mexico is way up there. And I think that in Central America at least, you're seeing more street gangs versus cartels kind of amass power amid economic and political uncertainty that's going on in some of those countries. But in terms of drug exports, for sure, Mexico is way up there, mainly because they have mastered the art of creating fentanyl and exporting it, which creates this sort of feedback loop of supply and demand. So, yeah, number one for sure is Mexico, at least on this side of the globe.

[Adam Carolla]

And if you're in politics in Mexico, you have to just sort of work with these guys. Right? There's no declaring war on the cartels, is there?

[Ian Frisch]

I mean, if the 1990s are any indication of what happened in Colombia, the answer is kind of yes. Because if you're too forceful against them, they have their own basic, basically armies that they can call upon to create political violence within their region, or they can go outside of their region and be violent or create political instability. It's a delicate dance, especially when a cartel has gotten so powerful over the years and over the decades. It's almost like the kind of power structures of the cartels should have been dealt with four decades ago. So that playbook wasn't cemented and being used today in places like Mexico. It's a difficult situation, especially when you're talking about the Mexican government trying to rein in a Mexican cartel. It's easy for us Americans to just be like, well, you know, let's just squash them like a bug. But it's not as simple as that, I don't think.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, I guess in a weird way, it's like the homeless problem in Los Angeles. There was a time when you could have acted on it and been effective, and now it's sort of ubiquitous, and the numbers are so fantastic that you're sort of like, what do you do other than kind of live with it and kind of manage it a little bit? But it's there, you know, it's just kind of of that's part of society now. And the time that you could have done something about it was probably 15 years ago. But that window closed. And now it's just sort of woven into the fabric of your society. And I don't blame I mean, obviously crappy leadership gets you there. But there is no simple answer now. There's too many people in too many places that the answers were simpler before they got to these numbers. And I guess almost the same with the cartels, that that ship has sailed in some respects.

[Ian Frisch]

I agree. The ship has sailed. And I think that it's because we didn't realize when the time was right that a solution has to be apolitical. It can't change every four years based on who's in federal office. And it can't change based on on who's mayor of a city or xyz. Whatever problem you're trying to look at here, how to combat international drug trade has to be something that is agreed upon at the onset. And then that playbook extends for decades across political administrations. And as the winds change and priorities change, these problems can grow roots. And and they went from a sapling to a tree pretty quick.

[Adam Carolla]

What's your next project? What are you working on now?

[Ian Frisch]

Oh, geez, Adam, I'm not really sure. I'm just coming up for air after this book, so we will see. But I'm always digging around for a great story, so I hope it's a good one.

[Adam Carolla]

Well, come see us in person next time you're in Los Angeles. Ian, the book is called Inside the Cartel. And Martin, let's see, Suarez, what do we say?

[Ian Frisch]

Suarez.

[Adam Carolla]

Suarez is how you pronounce co written and he's the man who's embedded. An interesting tale to be sure. Nice to meet you, Ian.

[Ian Frisch]

Thanks for having me.

[Adam Carolla]

Adam, thanks for joining us. All right, Michael Chiklis is gonna be in a movie called the Senior. It's out as we speak as well. And also I'm gonna be at Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy club this weekend in Las Vegas, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, doing stand up shows there a couple shows every night. Come out and say hi. And I'll be in New York with Cat Timf and Matt Friend doing stand up and a live pod. That'll be October 9th. And you can go to AdamKroll.com for all live shows. Until next time, this is Adam Friend and Michael and Mayhem saying, Mahala, pick.

[Dawson]

Up your phone and leave us a voicemail at 8 at 863-41744 and be sure and get tickets to see the ACE [e-mail].

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[Adam Carolla]

I'm coming in.

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For this month only you can watch full seasons of the CBS shows you love from from the courtroom drama of Matlock to the heroics of Fire Country. Go back to where it all began in NCIS Origins or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts. All for free. Full seasons of the CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto tv. Stream now pay Never this September, CBS hits are streaming free on Pluto tv. I'm coming in hot for this month only you can watch full seasons of the CBS shows you love, from the courtroom drama of Matlock to the heroics of Fire country, go back to where it all began in NCIS Origins or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts. All for free. Full seasons of the CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto tv. Stream now pay Never.