Mike Tollin + Ben Browning (Carolla Classics)

Summary

Adam Carolla Show: Carolla Classics — Mike Tollin & Ben Browning (Episodes #191 & #192) January 16, 2026

Episode Overview

This Carolla Classics edition revisits vintage Adam Carolla Show episodes from 2009, featuring director/producer Mike Tollin (of Radio, Coach Carter, and ESPN’s 30 for 30) and “bad boy” Survivor contestant Ben Browning. Hosted by “superfan Giovanni,” the selections showcase Carolla’s signature blend of personal anecdotes, irreverent comedy, and candid discussion on sports, pop culture, and society at large. The episode dives into the drama of sports storytelling (fictional and real-life), the psychology of athletes, Carolla’s own athletic past, wild sports movie inaccuracies, behind-the-scenes details from Survivor, and the quirks of American culture.

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Segment 1: Sports Stories & Filmmaking with Mike Tollin

Starts ~01:06

Key Topics & Insights

• Tollin’s Sports Movie Philosophy

  • Tollin shares how “losing” often provides richer drama in sports films, citing his documentaries, Hardball, and Coach Carter where telling the story isn’t always about winning.
  • "We always say, yeah, we're making a sports movie, but it's about something else... you gotta hook into the characters and what's at stake." — Mike Tollin [02:27]

• Real Life Miracles & Tragedies

  • Tollin recounts a South Carolina high school basketball team playing for their deceased coach, Louis Mulkey. In the state finals, the underdog team nearly loses at the buzzer—until the opposition’s last-second 85-foot heave is waved off, delivering an emotional win.
  • “There's nothing better than a sports documentary. You have to work hard to fuck that up.” — Adam Carolla [05:46]

• Adam’s High School Football Story

  • Adam describes playing for a losing team at North Hollywood High, dedicating a final game to two friends who had died. Anecdotes mix melancholy with typical Carolla humor over missed triumph (the team loses after a dramatic comeback).

• Documentary Filmmaking: Hardwood Dreams

  • Tollin discusses Hardwood Dreams, following Morningside High, a basketball powerhouse that implodes when two star athletes are caught with guns; themes include wasted potential, youth entitlement, and the “invincibility” mindset of star athletes.

• Sports & Entitlement

  • Carolla and Tollin explore why top-tier athletes develop egos and entitlement early — “Allen Iverson was a star at age 11,” compared to actors like Kevin Costner who earned their fame later.

Notable Quotes

• “Have the reward be great enough to be worthy of the risk.” — Mike Tollin on risk-taking, [17:32]
• "It's a weird marriage between grandiosity and hopelessness." — Adam Carolla [18:01]
• “Every one of them [actors] has a story [of rejection]. Whereas LeBron James probably doesn't have a ton of those stories...” — Adam Carolla [19:32]
• “Michael Jordan seems to be like a world class jerk.” — Adam Carolla [20:47]

Memorable Moments

• Carolla’s comedic riffing on his old coach’s decisions and fumbled opportunities [11:13]
• The missing game film footage of the only play Wendell Shirley ever ran back to the house [12:58]

Timestamps

• 01:06 – Mike Tollin introduction
• 02:27–08:00 – Philosophy of sports films; losing vs. winning
• 08:00–13:16 – Carolla’s football story
• 13:16–16:34 – Morningside High & guns in high school sports
• 18:01–20:55 – Athlete entitlement vs. acting, Costner vs. Iverson
• 22:42–23:54 – Tollin revisiting doc subjects ten years later

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Segment 2: Who Killed the USFL, Donald Trump, and the ESPN “30 for 30” Experience

Starts ~25:02

Key Topics & Insights

• Who Killed the USFL?

  • Tollin’s 30 for 30 documentary explored the USFL’s demise—blamed largely on Donald Trump’s selfish ambition to force an NFL merger and disregard for the league’s spring schedule.
  • “He couldn't get in the NFL... This is the Donald Trump agenda. That's the thing about... it's not about hating him. It's about the height of narcissism and almost pitying him.” — Mike Tollin [28:05, 29:37]
  • Trump’s infamous response: “Third rate documentary... best wishes... P.S. you’re a loser.” [30:09]

• The USFL’s Legacy

  • Nearly 200 players went on to the NFL, including hall-of-famers; Carolla and Tollin argue the business model remains viable today.

Memorable Quotes

• “If you want to call somebody a loser, don’t you lead with that instead of making that the P.S.?” — Adam Carolla [30:18]
• “Nobody's proven that the concept can't work. In fact, you could argue the other side and somebody is now trying to start a spring pro football league again.” — Mike Tollin [32:45]

Timestamps

• 25:02–29:37 – “30 for 30,” USFL, and Donald Trump’s role
• 29:37–32:45 – USFL’s demise and legacy

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Segment 3: Sports Uniforms, Movie Inaccuracies & Comedy Rants

Starts ~35:33

Key Topics & Insights

• Adam rants about MLB’s lax uniform standards (e.g., pine tar obscuring helmets), and the absurdities of movie depictions of sports (wrong facemasks for the era, unrealistic football action scenes).
• “Could you imagine in the NFL? Ochocinco wants to play in sweatpants. ‘That’s my thing.’” — Adam [40:14]
• Discussion fleshes out “football choreographer” as a legit job, why movie extras are replaced by CGI, and blow-up dolls in stands.

Memorable Quotes

• “I know a lot of people take umbrage to that, but... if you grew up like I did in the 70s, calling your buddies faggot, then you get to use it. The next generation doesn't get to use it.” [92:22]

Timestamps

• 35:33–47:30 – Uniforms, pine tar, and sports movie accuracy rants
• 47:30–55:18 – Movie sports realism, Carolla’s coach impressions, and roleplay

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Segment 4: Survivor Survivor Samoa’s Ben Browning (Ep. 192)

Starts ~56:31

Key Topics & Insights

• Ben Browning (“bad boy” of Survivor Samoa) discusses motorcycle mishaps, bar fights, and his route to being cast on reality TV (recruited by a talent scout, not an open call).
• Detailed accounts of the survival experience: catching chickens, living off the land, coconut crabs (“can crack a coconut shell; could take your hand off” [70:13]), and strategies for staying alive.
• “All you do is go around and talk shit about everybody. And it was a cool experience, though.” — Ben [65:16]
• Behind-the-scenes: post-elimination, losers are “sequestered” in basic accommodations until show ends.

Bar Culture and Social Commentary

• Ben discusses a West Hollywood encounter, labels/insults, and defends the right to respond in kind to provocation—leading into a Carolla rant on language and generational changes.

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Memorable Quotes

• “Impounding a man’s bike is like taking a man’s horse 150 years ago.” — Adam [58:22]
• “Prison cash. Probably could have gotten a blow job for that [cigarette].” — Adam [74:25]
• “It’s a little excessive. It’s a little insane.” — Ben, on American consumption [65:05]

Timestamps

• 56:31 – Ben Browning introduction
• 60:24 – Motorcycle club stories
• 61:22 – Getting recruited for Survivor
• 63:06 – Survival challenges, coconut crabs, and local wildlife
• 74:14 – Deprivation, drinking, and Survivor ‘Ponderosa’ afterlife
• 89:07 – Bar confrontations and language

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General Show Highlights

• The tone is classic Carolla: candid, irreverent, and peppered with brutal honesty and off-color humor, but deeply knowledgeable about sports, pop culture, and the realities of Hollywood.
• Adam’s pattern of comparing American “excess” to other cultures, a running bit about treadmill-walkers (“imagine telling someone starving in another country we run in place to burn off extra food” [64:40]).
• Both episodes feature extensive rants about arbitrary American rules, law enforcement priorities, and generational shifts in society.

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Recommended Entry Points / Notable Segments

• [14:43] Jim Brown, inspiration, and high school sports nostalgia ("whenever more than eight black people show up somewhere, Jim Brown just wanders in...")
• [29:37] Donald Trump's role in the USFL collapse
• [46:52] The accidental comedy of sports movie choreography and stadium extras
• [61:22] Survivor casting secrets
• [70:13] The terror (and taste) of coconut crabs

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For longtime Carolla fans or those new to the show, this "Carolla Classics" volume is a punchy, meandering conversation through sports, showbiz, and strange Americana, anchored by the no-nonsense wit of Adam and engaging insider stories from his guests.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Corolla Classics. I'm your host, superfan Giovanni. This is the podcast. We play the best moments, highlights and fan selected clips from all 16 years of the Adam Carolla Show. We have a companion podcast titled Coral Classics. You can find the ad free archives exclusively available through Podcast one. And if you'd like to get access to the ad free archives of the Adam Carolla show and The Adam and Dr. Drew show, as well as access to the brand new podcast Beat it out, make sure to check out Adam Corolla's substack adamcarolla.substack.com and if you'd like to request a clip, Please email us classicsamcorla.com now onto the clips. Today's episode of Cruel Classics is made up of episodes from 2009, the very first year of the podcast, the first episode up, episode 191. Mike Tolan, Director, the director of the movie Radio and a bunch of other things. This is an episode that probably hasn't been heard by most people since it originally aired. I thought it'd be really fun to dig it out of the archive and see what happens. Hope you guys enjoy.

[B]

Welcome to the podcast. Mike Tolan. Mike. You may not recognize the name, but Mike is pretty. He's a big time director. He's recently did Who Killed the USFL, which is part of the 30 for 30 documentary series that's on ESPN, which I've been enjoying the shit out of. But then you have Wild Hogs. Jesus, that movie made some money. Norbit. All that. Coach Carter, Varsity Blues, one of my favorites, and I don't even know why. And many others to your to your credit. So you like sports and you like directing. That's good.

[C]

Sports has been good to me. To paraphrase somebody who was talking about baseball.

[B]

Yeah, Chico Escuela.

[C]

Yeah. Well, I started doing documentaries and then I worked for Major League Baseball and then I came out out here and hooked up with Brian Robbins and we found it's a great place for storytelling. You know, you got winners and losers, good guys and bad guys. You know what you're rooting for.

[B]

It's the best. Well, it really is. I mean, when you're watching sports and you're watching things unfold and the drama and the pageantry and all that kind of stuff, it's built in. I mean, why should you sit down and write anything? It's already all happened. I mean, every home run's been hit in the seventh inning, every 20 to one underdog has knocked out the champ. You know, all these things happened.

[C]

But that's part of the challenge, Adam, because you just assume you're watching a sports movie. You've seen enough. Like, starting with Hoosiers, which is hard to top. You assume the good guys are going to win at the end. So we always adopted the approach that there's more drama in losing. The first documentary we did, well, we didn't have a script. But the reality is the team that we followed lost in the state championships. And then, you know, in hardball, the little kid gets killed at the end, and they don't actually win, play the big game. And in Coach Carter, they actually lose in the playoffs at the end. So Friday Night Lights had the same thing happen. So, you know, we always like to say, yeah, we're making a sports movie, but it's about something else, and you got to sort of hook into the characters and what's at stake. But it's just really accessible. It's a common language, and people love it. We're working on a couple right now. There's this amazing story. Did you ever see the piece on ESPN outside the Lines about the fireman in South Carolina? He got killed in what turned out to be the most tragic blaze in America since 9. 11. Nine guys died in a furniture warehouse thing.

[B]

Yeah, it sounds familiar.

[C]

And he's a coach, and he had promised these guys since eighth grade. We're going to win a state title in 12th grade. And now he's dead. And they put his fire hat on the same seat he used to sit in on the bench, and they get to the state finals. So with one. This is like. You would never write this. You would never have the chutzpah to write this because it's too outlandish. Okay? So they. They're chanting his name, Louis Molkey, the whole time. And they get to the state finals as underdogs. They're up by two with 1.7 seconds left, and they're on the line for a one and one. So if he makes the foul shots, it's over.

[B]

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I was at football the entire time, so I was up by two points. Must have been a safety. And then they're on the line for the one on one. One on one. And I was like, geez, I know football pretty well. What's A one?

[C]

High school in South Carolina. Okay, so he's. And even if he misses them, there's 1.7 seconds left. It's got to be over, right? Sure enough, he misses the front end of the 1 and 1. The guy rebounds the ball. And so from the opposing key, you know, you're talking 85ft away, heaves the ball in the basket.

[B]

So the team that's up with the dead coach fireman is on the line.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

And like I said with say 2.7, 1.7 seconds left. So if you make it, you're up by three and the game's essentially over. I mean, the best they could do is a, is a, is a 80 yard hook shot to tie it up. But, and I'm guessing they have the three point. Yeah, so they, he's 80ft behind the three point stripe at this point. But if you miss it, all some guy's gonna do is do one of those two handed chucks at the buzzer.

[C]

Exactly what he does. But it's so perfect.

[B]

And he makes it.

[C]

He makes it. And the referees confer to decide if it was after the buzzer or not. So there's this. Is it in? Is it, is it not? Are we miserable? Are we ecstatic? And there's this, you know, what seems like forever, which is probably a minute and a half, and then the refs wave it off and the good guys win.

[B]

Oh, it's so God damn.

[C]

And there's the, the widow is there praying and crying and living, hanging in the balance. And these guys.

[B]

There's nothing better. I mean, I've said it. There's nothing better than a documentary. And there's nothing better than a sports documentary. I mean, there's just, it just. You have to work hard to fuck that up.

[C]

When you did your boxing movie, did you train? Did you study old boxers?

[B]

I used to be a boxing trainer, so I knew how to do it. Or an amateur boxer and then a boxing trainer. So I did it for, I did it for over 20 years, probably before I shot the movie. So I had, I had the, you know, the form down or whatever.

[C]

What's your favorite boxing movie?

[B]

I gotta cop out and just say Raging Bull. I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty easy to me because Raging Bull's not practically my favorite movie. I mean, it's one of the few sports it doesn't even need. The genre of sports, it almost transcends that with the cinematography, with De Niro putting the weight on his relationship with Pesci. There's a lot of comedy in it that's funny between him and Pesci, you know, the fight scenes, the way the scenes are shot, I mean, the era, the flashbulbs flashing and the smoke, you know, you'll never get those photographs ever again because they use color digital cameras now, but they don't allow any smoking. So when every guy around the ring apron was smoking a cigar and it was black and white and it was Madison Square Garden, you got a shot that just almost looked like it was from another world, you know? And you'll just never have those smoky old black and white shots anymore with the guys wearing a lot of pomade and wearing funky wingtip shoes with the, you know, it's just best era for me. I have told the story before. Yeah, you were talking about sports and how they don't always turn out the way you'd like them to turn out. When you start with a blank sheet of paper, they do. But when you're doing a documentary and chronicling a story that's already happened, then you can't decide what the ending is. The last high school football game I ever played, there was a couple of deaths beforehand. And speaking of just movies not turning out the way he'd like them to turn out, our team was horrible. And I played for North Hollywood High and we were like 1 in 8 or something like that. And we were going against Monroe and Monroe was a pretty good team and they had an all city running back who was sort of running on. On everybody. And I convinced our coach, I don't know why he listened to me. I guess because we were 1 at 8, that we should change our defense from like a 44 to a 52 or something like that. And we could stuff this guy, this, this runner. And this is the last game of the year, and it's the last game I ever played in. I think about Tuesday of that week, going into the Friday's game, two guys who were on the team the year before, Robert and Lenny both died in a horrible fiery car crash. And they were in a Pinto, Pinto station wagon, which people didn't realize the station wagons blew up as well as the coops. But these two were two of the favorite guys. And all the guys who played varsity the year before, myself included, were great friends with these guys and knew them from school and other activities. And so they were great and they had graduated, but they were still part of the team because we all, all of us played with them last year on the team and they died a couple days before the big game. And Wendell Shirley, who was one of the slowest black men I've ever met in my life, who was our punt returner, announced that he was taking one to the house for Robert and Lenny, which, which I Thought was a nice thing to say, except for I didn't feel like he was going to back it up since he. I'd played with him for three years now and he'd never taken one to the house for anybo. So, by the way, why are you waiting now, Wendell? Why don't you take one of the house.

[C]

Wait till, you know, money's on the line.

[B]

So we all had the black stripes on our arms, and we're playing our last game, and my 52 defense had worked out nicely and we'd stuffed the run. And they were hurt, and we hurt the running back that. The all City guy, Owens, I think his last name was, and we were. A lot of our guys were hurt because it was the end of the year and, you know, it was like our quarterback was hurt, our running back was hurt. Everyone was sort of playing out of position and stuff like that. And they were beating us seven, nothing the entire game, basically. And with about, you know, two, three minutes left, they punted and it went to Wendell. And sure enough, Wendell took it to the house and I snapped the ball for the. For the extra point. We kicked it and it was seven. Seven.

[C]

Didn't go for the two.

[B]

Didn't go for the two dot it was seven seven with.

[C]

Sounds like if you're one and eight and you have that happen, just go for the two and try to win it.

[B]

I don't. I don't know why old coach Fred Nielsen didn't go for the two.

[C]

He didn't chance settle him for a time.

[B]

We weren't exactly moving the ball up and down the field exactly.

[C]

That's why, you know, how much closer are you going to an opportunity to win it?

[B]

A tie would have been a win for us at that point where we were at, okay, and you're right, and there was probably five and a half minutes left in the game. So Fred. Fred thought maybe we get the ball back one more time, kick a field goal or something like that. So we. We kicked it, went through. We tied it up. That one was for Robert and Lenny. And on the ensuing kickoff, they did a fake reverse. The guy took it all the way. And they won the game once again.

[C]

See unhappy endings in real life.

[B]

They won the game. And the thing that was eerie is when we watched the game film the following week, just the season was over. We just all sat down to watch a game film just for the last time, just for the fuck of it, and we went and watched a game film, and it was shot in a reel, and it wasn't that long ago. I was 82, but I don't know, it was shot, you know, reel and everything was there. And it was literally when they were punting, the reel ran out. So we didn't get to see. We didn't get to see Wendell take it to the house. And then he literally got the next reel back in and saw them kick the extra point or saw us kick the extra point. So like that's the only play that wasn't on the two reels.

[A]

Was.

[C]

Was Windell taking it, telling his children and his grandchildren and they're like, show it to his grandpa. Well, sorry, we don't even have the footage.

[B]

And literally the real. You could see it starting to run out like the play before, and then it just ran out and then it was right back up to kick the extra point.

[C]

So. So our version of that, not quite as tragic or as. As heart rending, but the first doc we ever did, when Brian Robbins and I got together and we formed Tolan Robbins, we started doing docs because that had always been my thing. So we make a deal with Morningside High School in Inglewood, California. And it's a storied basketball powerhouse. Not known a lot for academic excellence, but what Inglewood on the hardwoods. They were the champs. So they had been. They'd won the state championship. This is 1992. They were defending state champs in basketball, and all five starters are coming back. That's kind of unheard of because if you're winning the state title, you assume you got seniors, right? So out of the five, three are blue chip division one prospects who all think they're going to be the next Michael Jordan. We make a deal with the school, they let us basically matriculate. I mean, we took our little. They were Canon cameras, you know, cost probably $2,000 each. You could use them for home movies. And we went to school every day and we shot. There was gunfire in the hallways and there was crazy kids flunking out this and that. But the team, you know, you go to practice every day and there they were. You just saw these guys who were just like thoroughbreds all, you know, seeing dollar signs in their eyes. And they go cruising through the season into the playoffs. By the way, this is a school where Byron Scott went, Eldon Campbell went. So two ex Lakers, and they both came back and Jim Brown showed up to do a whole speech about fathers and responsibility.

[B]

To be fair, whenever more than eight black people show up somewhere, Jim Brown just wanders into the mix with his sleeves and starts giving it His Koofy and starts giving an inspirational speech.

[C]

And the hat, the multicolored hat. Digger Phelps showed up from Notre Dame to talk about having a backup. So they get to the finals now and it's our guys from Inglewood against a school from Palo Alto. It's Hoosiers, an all white team from the suburb against the bad boys from Inglewood. By which point one kid had a.

[B]

Full ride to usc, Palo Alto, Stanford. Right.

[C]

It's where Stanford is, right?

[B]

Yeah. So it's a very nice white, like.

[C]

Gene Hackman's the coach. And there's no shot. We're 32 point favorites. One guy's already got a full ride to usc, one guy's got a full ride to Oklahoma, one guy's going to Washington State. So the week of, it's just like your thing. The week of the practice week before the championship game, two guys, one of whom is the starting point guard, get caught on campus with two loaded guns, one of which was an Uzi, just cruising through campus with a.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. So they're not suspended, but expelled. By the way, the kid, Sean Harris, who was the point guard, was also the valedictorian. The smartest kid in the class could have written his ticket to any college in America, really. Now he's not only going to not.

[B]

Play in the chimpsuit game down the hall.

[C]

No, in the car.

[B]

Oh, in a car. It's caught on campus in a car with an Uzi.

[C]

We made friends with the Inglewood police and they showed us the snapshots of the guns as evidence, which we. Which we put in the documentary, which was called Hardwood Dreams. So now the point guard is out of the game. Everybody has to move out of position. You know, the two guards playing point guard, so forth, and they get killed. It was the classic, you know, fundamentals. Three passes before they shoot, right? And the Pali High kids killed us.

[B]

Wearing the shiny shorts with the belts on them. Wow.

[C]

Oakland Coliseum, the week of.

[B]

Driving around like it's so, you know, you know, when I think about this a lot, because I grew up in the Valley here in North Holly, with a lot of dumbos for friends and acquaintances. And there's the part of life where, look, you're out of money, so you try to rob a liquor store and you get caught. And I understand that part of life, like, you're out of money, you're desperate, what are you gonna do? And then there's just the plain fucking stupid part where you're just being stupid, like there's nothing to gain from this, you know, so much of life, like I'm gonna tell my. I'm not going to tell you what not to do. Like I'm not going to tell you not to rob a bank. I'm not going to tell you not to mug an old woman. I'm not going to tell you not to have sex without a condom. I'm not going to tell you anything. I'm just going to say, if you're going to do something stupid or if you're going to take a risk, have there be some reward.

[C]

Have the reward be great enough to be worthy of the risk.

[B]

If you get caught going through LAX with a kilo of heroin in your ass, at least have a payday when you get to Mexico or get to Florida. That's all I'm saying. So much of this stuff is just sort of senseless, stupid, you know what I mean?

[C]

Arbitrary. But it comes from this sense of entitlement, right? Because these kids think they're immune. They've been told, don't go to class, don't worry, we'll get you the C you need.

[B]

Some of it's entitlement. I mean, it's a weird mixture and a weird marriage between grandiosity and hopelessness. A sort of like. Because I could remember part of it is being young. And just when you're young, you're stupid and you think you're a little bit invincible, but you also, you know, look, I didn't grow up eating government cheese in South Central, but I grew up in North Hollywood on welfare. And I remember being 19 and climbing on my motorcycle and it'd be raining outside, I wouldn't be wearing a helmet and it'd just be. The thought was, I don't want to die. But the thought was more, who cares? Who cares? Yeah, they don't care.

[C]

I mean, you feel invincible and, and especially if you're an elite athlete. That's what I meant by entitlement. And they'll get you the grades and all. There, there was a really interesting thing I heard Bob Daly, who used to run Warner Brothers and then he came over to run the Dodgers. So now he's had a career of dealing with super egos and top level celebrities. And so many said, what's harder, dealing with movie stars or star athletes? And he said, oh, athletes are way harder. Because he used an example of Kevin Costner. Kevin Costner was, you know, a pretty good athlete and a pretty cool kid, but he was just a regular kid until he became a movie star in what, his 20s or his 30s. Whereas Allen Iverson was a star at age 11, being sort of shoved through and being told, don't worry, we'll take care of you. So they have that built in entitlement from the time that they, you know, barely can read.

[B]

Just had, just had the conversation with a personal trainer friend of mine, which is ironically, the guy's a high level personal trainer, likes working with celebrities, doesn't like working with athletes and said the exact same thing. Said one guy earned it in his 20s, his 30s, his whatever. The other guy had it since the eighth grade and it's built into his fiber. And there's that crazy sense of entitlement also mixed with. Hasn't had a lot of bad days, a lot of rejections. I don't care who the actor or actress is. They can all tell you 100 stories about somebody telling them they were too fat or too short or not, not, didn't look right or would never make it in this business. Or, you know, Harrison Ford was, you know, told, whatever, to pick up a hammer and to get off the set. You know, I mean, every, every one of them has a story. Whereas LeBron James probably doesn't have a ton of those stories where he's thrown out of the. Off the.

[C]

Michael has the story, of course, where he didn't make the high school varsity.

[B]

He's the.

[C]

But then, you know, then of course he dedicates his life to like, you know, trashing the guy who did make it instead of him and brings him to his hall of Fame induction speech so he can embarrass him.

[B]

That by all accounts seemed to be a very classless move. And Michael Jordan seems to be like a world class jerk.

[C]

It's tough.

[D]

I.

[C]

Look, it's, it's, you know, when the cheering stops, it goes back to Mickey Mantle. Used to wake up in the middle of the night having these nightmares that they were still cheering him. And then, you know, he was, it's over. And like, what do you do when you're Michael Jordan and then you're just a civilian? I mean, he's been given a chance to run a ball club. He has no interest, seemingly. So he plays golf and, you know, gambles and he. Whatever else it is. The Magic Johnson is more of the exception to the rule, don't you think?

[B]

Yes, yes. Happy to be here. Put on 100 pounds, open the chain to theaters, beat AIDS. I mean, yeah, I would, I would say he's an exception. Listen, I can tell you on a much, much smaller micro level, I was a Star football player in high school. Stars. A little bit of an overstatement, but I was. I was an all Valley football player and I loved it. And it's the only thing I looked forward to. It's the only thing I had going in my life. Everything else was horrible and I was a bad student. I was bad at everything, but I was good at this one thing and I loved every second of it. And when I got out of high school and realized I wasn't going to cut it at the next level and basically got into carpet cleaning and ditch digging, I went through about a five year depression. I was depressed and this is just me being a crappy high school player. I thought about it all the time. I. All I ever wanted to do was go back and play. I would have dreams every third night that they had some sort of thing where I could play one more year of high school football at 21, you know, and all this kind of shit. And that was at just a micro level of what these guys are experiencing. So I could only imagine what it's like to, you know, hoist that trophy.

[C]

We went back 10 years later, found those same five kids from Morningside High School, sort of like the Michael Apted 7Up, 28Up, which is now up to like 56Up, where every seven years he revisits them. So we went back when they were 28. One had a college degree, none had obviously played a minute of NBA ball. One was playing in like, you know, Greece and Turkey and thought he was as good as Derek Fisher and, you know, just didn't get the breaks. And luck was against him. One had been in and out of jail, one was like a club promoter. But they were still, you know, kind of living that dream and hanging out in Morningside. And remember, we were the state champs.

[B]

Yeah. That's why they make letterman jackets.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and it is. There's a depression. I mean, listen, nerds, you guys think you were depressed because you got picked on a little bit in high school, or maybe you weren't the belle of the ball or queen of the prom or queen of the hop or whatever the fuck it was. The real depression is the guys that were captain of the football team who go on to dig ditches. It's fucking depressing.

[C]

My mom always said, you know, you're jealous of the big man on campus. There was a kid in my high school who was the sports superstar who's now selling shoes at Macy's.

[B]

Depressing. But don't want to peek too soon. Right. Plus, they're morbidly obese. Yeah, I peaked at 17.

[C]

So speaking, I mentioned Allen Iverson, who was one of those kids who was, you know, sort of zipped through the system in Hampton, Virginia. And you probably remember the bowling alley incident where he got. He actually went to jail in high school for sort of a gang fight. And one of the shows in 30 for 30, the ESPN documentary series, is following that incident and kind of dissecting it and what happened in sort of a race war. That's overstating it, but Steve James, who did hoop dreams, actually grew up in Hampton, and so he was intimately involved, knew the family, played ball there himself. And he's now gone back and done this really amazing and thorough look back at Alan and how that shaped his character and what it did to divide this town and all. It's kind of amazing. You know, you think of ESPN as kind of like the bully on the block who just devours all of the rights to everything. Every sporting event, it does whatever it wants. So these guys decided for their 30th anniversary that they basically wanted to just sort of give over the territory to filmmakers.

[B]

Yeah, I saw the Pete Berg, dear friend of mine Pete Berg. I saw his one with Gretzky. I saw year one of who Killed the usfl.

[C]

There was a bar.

[B]

I saw the band. I saw the Barry Levinson one. I've seen them all, except for the one that I was supposed to see last night where they taped a college game. My TiVo took a swing at me and taped a college football game. I suppose it could have been Wawa Wubsy or something like that instead, but whatever was on ESPN that wasn't on or should have been on. So I will catch the Muhammad Ali one. The one I saw that you did who Killed the USFL was exciting because the thing you forget about, even though I was around, I remember the USFL and we remember the Herschel Walkers and all the, you know, I think they had the three Heisman Trophy winners in a row, went to the usfl, so on and so forth. But you sort of forget a lot of the details. Like I forgot about Donald Trump's involvement with the thing and he came across like just a world class ass. I'm guessing. He is a world class ass. I know he's a world class ass. I don't hate him as much as a lot of people hate him and probably as much as I should hate him, but he is one of these guys. And the reason, I guess he came across as a world class ass is in the doc that you did on the usfl, you didn't exactly come out and say that Donald Trump ruined the usfl, but you said he was a major contributing factor as to why it folded.

[C]

Well, we interviewed 33 people and, you know, two dozen of them pretty much pointed to the corner of 5th Avenue and 57th Street. I mean, he bought into a league that was designed to play football in the spring. From the end of the super bowl to the beginning of training camp for football fanatics, it's the only sport in the country where the appetite is insatiable. And they'll watch it all year long, as long as you can bet on it. I mean, look, even the Arena Football League, which was kind of, you know, mini football, lasted for 22 years. So, yeah, there was something that was working that people were loving. It wasn't.

[B]

Well, the whole premise was when, when you're. When your supply of pure grade Colombian heroin dries up, we'll be able to provide a batch of methadone or some stuff that's been stepped on a little bit with talcum powder. But either way, you'll get your fix. You'll get your fix. It's not going to be the same as you watching your Bears, but you'll get your fix, you junkies. And that was a smart idea. I mean, it's a great business model for anything. Like, it's like, look, if there's a Mexican restaurant that closes at 9pm every night, I'll have one that stays open until midnight, even if it serves slightly shittier food. We'll be busy. People want Mexican food. So that was usfl.

[C]

So he comes in and from day one he says, we're moving to the fall. No, that's not the idea, Donald. We're playing in the spring. But he couldn't get in the NFL. What happened at the time was the jets had moved with the Giants to the Meadowlands, so now they're both New Jersey teams, essentially. And as a real estate guy, Donald sees Shea Stadium vacant. No team in the NFL in New York City. This is an opportunity for him as a real estate guy, hungry, hungrier than anybody in the world in history of the world, maybe for publicity. So he can now have the profile of being on the back page in the New York Post and working his way up as, as Charlie Steiner says in the film to page six and then to the front page, and then maybe getting his way through the back door into the NFL by forcing a merger. But he doesn't wait to build the league to be in a position to compete from day one. He basically says, I don't care what you guys have done. I don't care about the millions of dollars you've thrown into this. I don't care about the vision. I don't care about all those fans who are loving this thing and feel like they've gotten something that caters to them. This is the Donald Trump agenda. That's the thing about. It's not about hating him. It's about the height of narcissism and almost pitying him because he's just like so focused on his own little world. I mean, we spent a lot of time back then because I was doing the highlights and had shows on the networks every week and he would always call up and he was always looking for opportunities. And when I see him, you know, 25 years later, it's like, you know, I was just another. Well, that's why I called the film small potatoes. I was just another guy. Another little sort of speed bump on.

[B]

The way to his Donald Trump. A copy of the film who owned the New Jersey Generals, as we spoke about Trump sent you a letter back. Said it was a handwritten message to you. Mike said, a third rate documentary. I disagree. I think it was fourth rate, possibly fifth. But anyway, he was being kind. No, it was really compelling shit. So third rate documentary, I guess you know where this one is going. Extremely dishonest, as you know. I do love that part.

[C]

Keep going. It gets better.

[B]

I know, I know. Best wishes, my favorite Donald Trump. P.S. you're a loser. Underline that.

[C]

So if you want to call somebody a loser, don't you lead with that instead of making that the P.S.

[B]

I don't know. Also, I hate it when, when people, especially when there's a third person standing in the room, where you're doing a very accurate accounting of what happened for the usfl. But whatever the situation is, could have been who ate the last pork chop? And there's a person that you're arguing with in front of a third person. In this case, it's the audience or it's me or whoever doesn't know what's going on. And they go, you know you're lying. You know you're lying. You know you're lying. I can't stand that because, no, I don't know I'm lying. No, I'm not a liar. But you're making this third person think that I know I'm a liar. And I hate when they add that. Super condescending. It's Extremely dishonest, as you know, as if you just went out and just decided to throw a little mud on the face of Donald Trump.

[C]

I'm betting big money that he never saw the film when he wrote that letter and still probably hasn't because there's nothing in it for him. And he wouldn't deign to spend 52 minutes of his life watching something he wasn't even going to participate. But what happened was after he turned me down, there was a story in the Sports Business Journal that where the reporter was talking about 30 for 30 and our doc, and he said a lot of people blame Donald Trump for the demise of the league. So, you know, that very assiduous clipping service put that on his desk the next day and he said, wait a minute, get me this Tolan guy. I'm going to put my spin on it. But then he forgot about spin and he came in completely hostile. The best parts of the film, a lot of people think, are when the camera was rolling between the interview and you see what an impatient jerk he is. It's a couple more questions. I want to get out of here. I've had enough. And why is that camera not on the stand? And which camera am I looking like? And how many more minutes of this?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It'S a shame because we had such a great time. And when you look at guys like Steve Young and Jim Kelly and Doug Flutie and Herschel Walker and all they do is talk about how they never would have been the football players that they were if not for that experience and coaches in general managers and owners.

[B]

I think at the end, if memory serves, it said 183, 184 guys made it to the NFL. Many, many of which were Pro Bowls.

[C]

Many of whom were Pro Bowlers, seven Hall of Famers and almost 200 players.

[B]

From, from that, from that group. So that's.

[C]

And it's funny, you know, 25 years later, no, nobody's proven that the concept can't work. In fact, you could argue the other side and somebody is now trying to start a spring pro football league again.

[B]

Well, you look at it, look at it this way. First off, how many great programs, college wise, are there around, around the country now? Then, you know, when we were growing up, hey, it's Penn State and everyone knows Penn State and Ohio State and usc, but you didn't hear about a lot of these smaller schools that were putting out guys that could play in the show or at least being able to compete. You know, if you take a look at, you know, you know, I don't know. Cincinnati. I don't know. I know some of the top 20. Boise State, Boise State, some of these top 20 teams, probably three or four schools just in Arizona that have enough guys that could fill out a roster of a USFL type team now, you know, so first off, you have a pool, a huge pool to choose from that is quite a bit greater than it was 25 years ago. Right. So you got the massive pool, not to mention all the junior colleges. I mean, I know you're smiling, but I always laugh that Steve Smith and Ocho Cinco were both playing together at Santa Monica Junior College is probably why we were getting the shit kicked out of us over at LA Valley College. I didn't know they had a couple of Pro Bowlers starting on their team, but I mean, with all the colleges and this massive pool and the NFL growing in popularity and people's never ending hunger for football, contact sports and gambling. Sure, why not? It's a great idea. But just start the second the super bowl ends and end the second before the training camp starts.

[C]

People aren't as into baseball yet. It's, you know, like the All Star break. You're done in July. And the trick was, which they kind of where they shot themselves in the foot a little bit, is that whole ego thing takes over and every owner wants to win. So this crazy dude out here, Bill Oldenberg, who owned the LA Express, makes a $40 million deal with Steve Young. Can't support that when 12 people are showing up at the Coliseum. So if you have a salary cap and you have cost containment and you have some sort of unified marketing plan, and you say, you know, let's say you take 35 guys and there's a salary cap and then you get to go wild on five. Okay?

[B]

So.

[C]

Because who cares who's playing right guard? Nobody's going to know who's behind that helmet. So you get a couple of stars that become the profile for your team. And like you said, you can bet on it. There's a million channels to put it on. And you go to cities like Birmingham and Tampa and Memphis, where they don't have a. Most of them don't have a pro football team, and they have a huge appetite for it.

[B]

Yeah. And again, it's just the hubris of Donald Trump. Trump.

[C]

And as Burt Reynolds, who was an owner, says, in the league, you know, I will always think that it was his personal agenda that sunk the lead. And that is the kind of, you.

[B]

Know, excuse me, I have to do a Meineke commercial. Yeah, I have a friend, actually, I was just, we were just talking about this. You know, we go over to Jimmy Kimmel's house on Sundays and watch football and this became the topic of discussion. ESPN's Bill Simmons shows up regularly and I think we're discussing this and I got a. One of my friends over there's a sports writer. He said he's trying to collect the USFL helmets. He wants game helmets from the usfl. And I said, oh, that sounds like a cool, quirky, fun little whatever. And he said they're more expensive than you think.

[C]

How much? Because I have a couple of them.

[B]

Oh really?

[C]

Will you sell it thousands or just hundreds?

[B]

He said they, they vary quite a bit, but yeah, I don't know. He said like 2 grand or 2,500 or something like that. For a game helmet.

[C]

I have a game used Tampa Bay Bandits helmet and they were kind of the model team he'd have to negotiate with. My 10 year old son. But you know, I could be the, I could be the middleman.

[B]

I could broker it.

[C]

There were 18.

[B]

Wet your beak for like 10% or whatever broker's fee would be.

[C]

My kid for Halloween decided he wanted to be Ochocinko. So I had to like find somebody in Cincinnati.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

Can you imagine? Well, he speak Spanish at home. And the idea that somebody changed his name to his number in Spanish. How great is that for a 10 year old kid?

[B]

I guess it is. And I. And you know, it's.

[C]

And they're role models. And don't even go there because like when my kids used to wear Iverson jerseys, my mother would say, how dare you. This guy's a thug. Allen Iverson was the ultimate warrior on a basketball court. Here's this midget who's basically going up and putting his body at risk. Nobody played harder and he gave the Sixers the best years we've had since Chamberlain. They get to the finals against the Lakers with no talent but him. So there is that. As a sports fan, I always contend you got to separate church and state. You know, I'm looking at him as the performer. My little kids don't really know or care about what he does off the court, the whole practice thing.

[B]

Well, you know, by the way, your kid's probably not going to get a tat on their neck that says Thug Life on it in the next few years. I mean, there's no chance. Probably not. Not a chance they're going to play hoop like Iverson and probably not A chance they're going to go down that highway like Iverson did as well.

[C]

So I told, I told my son Lucas that Ochocinko got fined ten grand for having. Did you hear this? He had a black chin strap, which is not NFL regulations. So 10 grand it cost him to wear the wrong color chin strap and.

[B]

He'S cool with that.

[C]

What are you going to do?

[B]

Well, let me. Speaking of regulations, your guy knows a ton about sports and I. There's something that bothers me to no end in baseball, not in football. So a black chinstrap does, would look good actually with the Bengals uniform. And by the way, why should every team in the league when every team in the league has a different color helmet and now a different color face mask? Why not start accessorizing with the chin straps as well? Make that. That's one more thing. It'd be like if everyone in the league just wore white sweatbands on their wrists. No, you should be wearing your team colors. You'd be accessorizing to your team's colors. Same with you do with the cleats and the socks and the gloves. You don't wear beige gloves. You wear the color of your team's gloves. By the way, if anyone's ever worn any of those gloves, those wide out gloves, those skill position gloves, they used to be sort of diving gloves, you would not be sympathetic when you saw one of your team players drop a ball because those things are sticky, very sticky, very difficult. But here's what I don't understand and I'll ask you about baseball.

[C]

Are you going to the socks?

[B]

I'm going to the socks and the pants and I'm also going to the pine tar because it's something that's always bothered me. Baseball is just chock full of tradition and chock full of rules. It just. And by the way, if you look up the definition of a uniform, it means sort of the same across the board uniformity. So when you see some of the guys wearing the pants that are literally dragging on the ground, like their back cleat has poked a hole and it's.

[C]

Dragging, they're stepping on the bottom of.

[B]

Their pants, they're stepping on the bottom of their bell bottoms and then you have the other guys that have it up above their knee and they're wearing the stirrups and then some of the stirrups come up high and some of the stirrups go all the way down and are solid or whatever. Can we just agree on a fucking uniform and somebody make a Rule. I don't like guys out there doing their own thing. Could you imagine in the NFL? Oh, Ochocinko wants to play in sweatpants. You know what I mean? Hey, that's my thing. What are you talking about? No, you can't do that. And now we get to pine talk with the schmutz all over the front of the insignia. Like when you're flipping around, you don't know if it's the Red Sox or the Angels. If the guy's just up at bat, the shit's all over the front. You can't read. You cannot read the insignia on the front of the batting helmet. That bad.

[C]

Really?

[B]

There are many guys in the league. There are a handful of guys in the league where you cannot make out the insignia on the front of the helmet. Okay.

[C]

Pretty insane.

[B]

All right, now who. Where's the commissioner? Where are the fines? What's going on? You have shit all over your helmet. Why isn't somebody saying something about this? It's a uniform. And don't give me and people do this. And I want you. Here's what I want to do. I want to punch everyone who does that. They use the pine tar because. I know why they use the pine tar, you idiots. There's no way a pine tar is coming off between the on deck circle and the plate. By the way, if I could put. I put pine tar on you right now and check with you. A year later, it would still be in the same place I put it. It'd just be covered with twigs. Right? You don't. Pine tar doesn't roll off these socks. Of course, the socks started this trend of putting all over the front of their helmet. Helmet. And then some of their guys got traded to the Angels and now they got shit all over the front of their helmet. Shouldn't the commissioner come in and go, hey, no. Shit all over the front of the helmet.

[C]

I think it's a reasonable request. But where's the commissioner? Is a question you could ask pretty much any day of the week. Like when I was sitting in a.

[B]

Hold on one second, Mike. All the stuff you're bringing up on the screen is. We can see every part of the screen except for the helmet because it's obscured with the fucking, you know, icon of Mac or whatever. Whatever it is we can't read. It's ironic. It's not your fault. But we can't see the helmet. It's. The actual helmet is tiled out by this thing. You can see it's like somebody screwing.

[C]

When I think of Pine tar. Of course. All I think about is George Brett and the famous incense, which of course.

[B]

Went too high up on the back.

[C]

There's a question for you.

[B]

Why?

[C]

Why is that illegal? And what advantage does it give a player to put pine tar all the way up his back?

[B]

Oh, why was George Brett's not taken away? No, I know. You know, but you want to know what the advantage is? Well, look, first off, in sports, we have a couple things. Like, everyone knows why steroids are illegal. They're performance enhancing. But then there was a boxer where they found pot in his system and they took his belt away. How is that performance enhancing? The only thing I could say. The only thing I would or could say about the pine tar up the bat is they may have made that rule just not to go through so many baseballs, like, not to deal with.

[C]

It, which they do now. Anyway. A guy throws a ball in the dirt, the catcher throws the ball away.

[B]

Yeah. So this is 20 years ago.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And again, I'm not making excuses for him, but the only thing I'm thinking of is if the pine tar went too far up the bat and every single pitcher got fouled off or got dribbled back, the pitcher had a big smudge of pine tar on it. That one would have to be taken out of circulation. And, yeah, they used to be tighter. Like in the NFL, if you threw a ball up into the stands, they'd go find a tackle you and go get the ball back from you. Now you're looking at a picture of I don't know who from the Red Sox. Can you read the top of the batting helmet?

[C]

No, you cannot.

[B]

No. It's 100% obscured by the pine tar.

[C]

Any remnant of a letter.

[B]

Is there any reason why the pine tar could not be applied to the back part of the helmet?

[C]

Or maybe even the ear flaps?

[B]

Or maybe even the ear flaps? No, it is put on. On the front on the thing is an intentional F you. And it is. I'm a badass. It's just like the guys who. I guess so.

[C]

But it's the opposite of the gang color thing. It's like, I don't want to be affiliated or I'm my own guy. I remember John Kruk. Remember his hat?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He was like, you know, he would never, ever watch it. He'd wear the same thing for years. I'm not quite sure.

[B]

Why does the commissioner get involved?

[C]

Why doesn't the commissioner get involved? When I'm sitting in Philadelphia last year and it's 40 degrees and it's a blinding rainstorm and they're still playing. I mean, you know, there's that famous movie, the Fan, that Tony Scott did, who's kind of a friend and I've talked to him about. I know you're from England, mate, but you know, we don't play baseball games in the rain except in the World Series when you have.

[B]

You mean famously bad movie. The Fan, by the way.

[C]

I'm not going to say that.

[B]

All right, But I know what you meant. I know what you meant. Yeah, we shouldn't let Brits make baseball moves.

[C]

And it's like there we are sitting there and nobody at home knows what the rule is about whether the game's tied and whether it reverts back to the previous inning.

[B]

Every, every single sports movie, especially almost every single football movie gets played in a torrential rainstorm.

[C]

Well, it's back to the smoke from the boxing matches, right? It's cinematic, it's beautiful.

[B]

I'll tell you why they do it, I think. I'll tell you why. I think, yes, it does add a texture to it. I'm not going to deny that. What it also helps to do is they can't fill out the stadium with extras. And it gets dark. It looks very. If you feel that if you think about when you watch an NFL game, the audience is lit. I mean, the, the people that you can see people in the stands, all through the stands. When you watch, you know, any given Sunday or whatever, it's always dark up in the, up in the stands. It's always. And it's this torrential thing and it's always very dark on the field. And if you think about making a movie where you have to fill a Stadium with 75,000 people or even 30,000 and keep moving them around, it's virtually impossible. So you make it Monarch. You do the rain and then you get the whole film wall thing and the texture thing and all that. The field always immediately gets soaked like when they're watched or there's crunch, crunch, crunch going through it.

[C]

But now we're in the computer generated audience era where you just sort of put the tiles in and later the fans magically appeared.

[B]

We should do.

[C]

It used to be these blow up dials which were kind of cool because they, they ate less and they didn't have to go to the bathroom.

[B]

They were blow up dolls in there.

[C]

Oh, yeah. I didn't know that that was the middle step from real people who you have to pay to eat and they have to go to the bathroom and they sign cards and all. Now you got blow up dolls. Now you just do.

[B]

Well, that worked until some of the Teamsters started fucking them. They pulled that out.

[C]

The greatest thing, you know, like the.

[B]

Tanks before we invaded Normandy.

[C]

But there was a. There was a filmmaker who will go unnamed who was from another country and was making a baseball movie and decided that the way the light was hitting the stadium, it would be more backlit and prettier if the guy ran from home plate to third base. And could we do that? Would that be okay with the audience?

[B]

When are we gonna stop at the foreigners making our national pastime films? One of the other I was thinking about as long as we're talking about torrential rain storms in the middle of football movies, all the Right Moves, the Tom Cruise movie. But again, the people that make sports movies are. Know nothing about sports. Oftentimes, Oftentimes. And in all the Right Moves they do a really stupid. Again, I. You probably remember the film, but you probably didn't study it like me and Bill Simmons did last week. Bill watched it, he's like, hey, Ace, man, all the rap moves is on. It holds up and you can see. What's your name's Titties.

[C]

Wait, when did Bill Simmons become from the South? I thought he was from Boston.

[B]

That's what he. What he sounds like.

[C]

He does. Did you see his acting performance with Kenny Maine recently?

[B]

Now I missed it.

[C]

Check it out, check it out. He does this whole thing where he's not really from Boston and he's really from Encino.

[B]

Oh, I will, I will Google it.

[C]

You will?

[B]

Like so in all the right moves, Tom Cruise is playing a defensive back and he. In practice, some guy runs, he's playing cornerback and he look, he just looks like Tom Cruise. You can tell he's never played a sport in his life, but he studied it close. But he's working too hard at it. You know, you can always tell when a guy's working too hard. They're not relaxed doing what they do. Real cornerbacks are sort of relaxed. They're not like, you know, but he's doing that and it's a practice and the guy does about a 10 yard down and out. And Cruz gets there a couple of beats before the ball gets there. And the coach starts this. Craig T. Nelson starts screaming at him, that's interference. You don't defend that way. Play the ball, don't play the receiver. That's interference. You know you're going to get flagged for that. And he's right. He didn't reach around him and try to swat the ball out. He just literally wrapped up the receiver and tackled him before the ball got there. So now comes time for the big game. Cruz catches the ball. Spoiler alert. But the movie's 27 years old, so I think we're cool. He. He. Now the big game. Of course, it's pouring rain outside, they're getting beat. But he picks one off. He takes it to the house. The team's up, and everything's looking good. And now there's just a few seconds left on the clock for the other team to drive. Of course, it's the same play. Down and out. There's Cruz once again. And Cruz does exactly what he does in practice. Literally wraps the guy up, doesn't play the ball. They throw the flag. Cruz is like, what? What? But it's like, wait a minute. You can't tackle the receiver before the ball gets there. It's clearly pass interference. They line up, you know, now on. They move the ball just on the goal line, and the other team ends up winning. And the coach sort of blames Cruz for it. And Cruz is like, you can't. But it's confusing as a viewer. The guy did pass interference. The coach was right. The coach told him during practice, that's not how you play DB you play the ball. You don't tackle the guy. He does the exact same thing in the game and gets a flag. And now we're supposed to feel sorry for Cruz's character or feel like he was robbed. It's a horrible sequence. It's horrible filmmaking. Have the part where he reaches around, gets a hand in and barely brushes the guy's shoulder and have the ref throw the flag and then do it.

[C]

Well, this is why there is a whole new job description now. Football choreographer. Because that's as important as the acting and the writing and everything else, right?

[B]

I face masks. I'm tired of watching movies where. Where they. They do this every time. It's like, I think I saw it. I think I saw it in Meet the Titans or Remember the Titans. Remember the Titans. Like.

[C]

Like a not good football action.

[B]

Remember The Titans? Yeah. Alabama, 1971. And there's a bunch of guys wearing full blown, you know, triple bird cages and stuff. It's like, no, no. In high school in 1971, they just had that double plastic OJ bar. The same one. Jake Scott get it right.

[C]

It really is.

[B]

Why you having the crazy drop cage with the 15 bars going across it? That came along 20 years later in 1971, right? Yes.

[C]

I think you're sort of jonesing for a role as a coach. Maybe there's a role in this. South Carolina. What do you think? Ready?

[B]

I'm gonna. First off, I. I played for 11 years. I know all the stuff. I'll yell. Your last easy day was yesterday, right? I'll. I'll yell. I want you to go through that line. I have two takes on this. Hell bent for reelection and hell bent for leather.

[C]

Okay, Southern accent like you just did for Simmons. Can you do a Carolina thing?

[B]

Well, last year's day was yesterday. I also need. I also can do this one. I also know the trick questions. Who's tired? Because I see one hand up that you're all in horrible shape now you're going on another lap.

[C]

How about 60 minutes for the next 60 years of your life? Can you do that?

[B]

Yeah. 60 minutes. I'll try to step down. All right. 60 minutes for the next 60 years. Sorry, I work with a teleprompter. Give me the life.

[C]

60 minutes for the next 60 years of your life.

[B]

Okay, let me try to. I need a clipboard and those bike shorts with the double snaps. 60. Gentlemen, grab a knee. I'm improvising here. Helmets, not a chair. Don't sit on the helmet. Grab a knee. Break it down. Get a hand.

[C]

Good eye contact. For those of you at home, good eye contact.

[B]

60 minutes for the next 60 years of your life.

[C]

That's terrible.

[B]

Okay, how about. How about. How about this one? How about this one?

[C]

I didn't. I didn't believe that at all.

[B]

Okay, how. How about. How about forearm shiver? I need you rip these forearm. Trying to think of. It's good if you can invoke, like. I had a coach that had a daughter that was on a gymnastics team who said they were tougher than we were.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's a good. My daughter's gymnastics team's tougher than you guys are.

[C]

There you go. Yeah. Just invoke the whole girl thing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Whenever they do that.

[C]

We're working on it. Okay.

[B]

All right.

[C]

I'll make sure casting finds you. Yeah, you'll read, though. You're not going to be, like an offer only guy, are you?

[B]

No, I'll. I mean, I'll. I'll. I'll read for the producers. I won't do it, like, just for the casting. Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[B]

And I can also lead the team in a. You just say, hell no when I. When I point at you. We don't need no Black Eyed Peas.

[C]

Hell no.

[B]

Well, it's more Of a hell no oh, yeah we don't need no black Eyed peas hell no Hell no We don't need no black Eyed Peas Hell no I say we don't need no collard green Hell no. This is where I'm leading the team out on. And we do it. Back in the 70s, they used to do it. The black teams used to do it, and they do it. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

High school teams did it.

[B]

We did it in Pop Warner, actually, in high school. We didn't do. We didn't do that much other than the. Other than to get a hand in and to break it down. And then our coach gave us a speech about Eskimos looking at like fur seals and attacking the screen. It's a long story, but I had.

[C]

A meeting yesterday with a guy. We're talking. Somehow varsity blues came up. He said it was his favorite movie and he. He named his fantasy football team I don't want your life. Remember the James Vanderbeek line?

[B]

Yeah, I. I love Varsity Blues. I watch that movie every time it comes on cable. And I love me a high school football movie. Mike Tolan, we are out of time. I guess everyone should check out the 30 for 30 documentary series on ESPN. It is great series.

[C]

I think the next one is on Land Bias.

[B]

Wow. And you can go back and see the other ones too. They re air them at different, different times all over the calendar. All right, so until next time, this is Adam Carolla for Mike Tolan saying mahalo.

[A]

That was Adam Corolla Show 191 with director Mike Tolan. Coming up next, we have Adam Carlos Show Episode 192. This is featuring Ben Browning. He's from Survivor again, another episode from 2009 that most people probably haven't heard since it originally aired. And it's the exact episode they record right after the one we just heard. So it's kind of how they used to gang tape episodes as they do two, three or four in a row. And it would actually have carriers over topics that would go from episode to episode, but then they would be released out of order. So people misinterpret things. They would hear Adam, like making a nuanced point from hour two of a conversation essentially with a different group of people that would carry on throughout the day, especially with the same production team, Donnie. So is a problem sometimes where people hear something and not understand it was out of context because of the recording order. Now presented in recording order, episodes 191 you just heard and 192. Hope you enjoyed.

[B]

Ben is from Survivor Samoa. Ben is the troublemaker. He's the bad boy. He's got the tats and the bike. Good to see you.

[D]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

Before we get into Survivor and how that all went, I noticed you rode your motorcycle here today.

[D]

I did.

[B]

Donnie was telling me that you've had your motorcycle impounded a couple times.

[D]

My motorcycle, my car. I seem to have a target on my back. But lately I've been getting lucky.

[B]

So I've had my motorcycle towed three times. Once when I was on it, told to get off and towed it, and then once from in front of my apartment building, and then once from Century City. So I feel your. I feel your towing impounding pain.

[D]

Yeah, I had my bike taken off the 101 and the Highway Patrolman made me walk. I was like, just stuck there. So I called a buddy and he came and picked me up.

[B]

What's more dangerous, by the way, driving with an expired license or not having a Class 4 or whatever the motorcycle license is, or you walking down the 101?

[D]

I think walking down the 101 is a little more dangerous.

[B]

Plus, as I was saying to the asshole that impounded my bike, I was just begging him. I wasn't on the 101. I was on Laurel Canyon. I said, let me just push it. I will push it to the side street over here and just park it, and then I'll go get my class whatever license and then I'll come back. And he's like, nah, we're towing it. And the second you go to the DMV and you fill out your thing for your temporary whatever, then you can go pick up your bike again. Which, which. Does that make it any safer? Does that make you a more skilled rider?

[D]

Piece of paper.

[B]

Impounding a man's bike is like taking a man's horse 150 years ago. Just don't do it.

[D]

My brother had a pretty funny instance. He had two guys sitting on his bike when he came out of a bar and he was in Arizona. He told the guys, he said, get off my bar or get off my bike. And the guy said, what are you going to do? You know? My brother's like, that's like my girlfriend, man. He said, how would you feel if you came outside and I, like, was on your girlfriend? The guy said, I'd kick your ass. My brother goes, get off my bike. And the guy got off the bike and walked towards my brother and acted like he was going to get in his face. And my brother Punched him in the face and broke his nose. And the cops were right across the street. So they pull over and they say, you know, what's going on? My brother said, these two assholes are sitting on my motorcycle. He's like, I told him to get off. He got in my face, and he goes, so I punched him. Cop goes, well, I don't see you did anything wrong. You know, you're protecting your property. The kid's like, what about my nose? He goes, you're lucky you didn't shoot your ass. He said, this is a right to carry state. He said, stay off people's motorcycles. Go to the fucking hospitals.

[B]

What is up? I know people get drunk. I get drunk too, but I don't act like an asshole. Like, I may get a little loud. I may tell a joke in front of people I shouldn't tell the joke in front of, and so on and so forth, but I wouldn't go sit on someone's bike and just be a dick. You know? Like, I don't understand. I understand the part where you steal someone else's bike. You. You steal. I wouldn't do it. But you're stealing. You'd want the guy's bike, or you want money or you want to sell it, or you want drugs, but just a part of the criminal activity where you're just a dick. What's. How's that work? What's in it for you?

[D]

I think it's a good way to get your ass kicked.

[B]

I concur. So your brother rides a bike and lives in Arizona?

[D]

He lives here. We actually have a motorcycle club called the Whiskey Boys. And it's just a few of us guys. It's two buddies, my brother and myself, and we do some rides. We go up to Northern California, we go to Sturgis, we go to Arizona for bike Week, and we have a pretty good time.

[B]

And how. How is it that you got into Survivor and got recruited into Survivor? And how does. How does one get involved with that show?

[D]

You know what? I don't really watch tv. And I'd seen Survivor, like, way back when, but I was walking down the beach on 420 in Venice, and this girl came up to me and said, hey, would you be interested in being on Survivor? I was like, sure. She said, I'll call you in a couple days. I gave her my card. A couple days later, she called. And six weeks later, I was in Samoa.

[B]

Really? Because I thought people, you know, I thought that was like Star Search, where people, you know, applied and went online and filled out stuff. And there was a, you know, line that went around the block for that stuff. I didn't know they went out and recruited people. I'm guessing it's both. It's both. And I'm guessing they would rather. They're looking for certain types and if they don't have that type, then they'll go out and recruit for that type.

[D]

That's exactly what it is. They want certain personalities that are not going to get along.

[B]

And Samoa. So the experience, is it exactly as it seems portrayed on tv? I mean, as far as the food and the comforts, the creature comforts and that kind of stuff?

[D]

Yeah, you have to get all your own food. You have to find it. I mean, I was killing chickens, I was killing lizards, getting papayas, bananas, all kinds of stuff. And if you don't get the food, then you don't eat. And I had a lot of lazy people in my tribe.

[B]

So how do you. How does one kill a chicken? How does one catch a chicken? I know I saw it in Rocky iii, but I can't remember.

[D]

I just got lucky. I was walking to get some water and I saw this, like, little wild ground bird with its head and a coconut, and I just stopped. I just waited for it to put its head back in the coconut, and as soon as it did, I just jumped on it and it tried to get under some branches and I just kept pushing him down and I just broke its neck.

[B]

And how much meat did you get off of that?

[D]

It was pretty small. It wasn't like a chicken you get from Ralph's or anything.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But, I mean, anything out there is pretty satisfying when you've been starving.

[B]

It is amazing. And I'm trying to think if I ever did Survivor, if I would do nothing but eat the week leading up to it or stop eating the week leading up to it just to acclimate myself to the new environment. But it's got to be just first off, just seeing people sleeping in the torrential rainstorms and on the ground and, you know, eating the rice for. With the maggots in it and all that shit, it just really feels like someone's gonna die or kill, at least have a heart attack during the course of that show.

[D]

I think people are pretty resilient and I think people are pretty pampered as far as just our way of life. And I think so many people suffer and get by on way less than what we do.

[B]

But we eat in a week.

[D]

Some people eat in a month or two months. So I don't think. I think it just kind of gives people a perspective.

[B]

Well, we do something that's never been done before in human history, really. I mean, probably well outside of the vomitoriums of old Rome or Greece or wherever they used to do it. Or both. You know, the idea that we eat too much and then run on a treadmill must piss off every other nation that doesn't have enough to eat. Because what we do is we just overindulge and then we just take a couple of laxatives and shit it out. Or just literally run on a treadmill. Like, I would love to get hold of people in Biafra and Ethiopia and go, oh, you guys don't have any food. You know what we do? We eat so much that we've created a device. It's like a sidewalk. Oh, what's a sidewalk? Oh, yeah, sorry. Like a dirt road. Are you guys gonna have those? It's like the ground. You have that, right? Yeah, you're sleeping on it. Okay. It's like the ground, it just keeps spinning, and we just run on it and watch a flat screen TV and oftentimes ironically, watch people participate in sports while we run it on this piece of ground that keeps turning so we can burn off all the extra chicken and steak we ate for dinner that night.

[D]

It's.

[B]

It's insane. It's like. It's like going to a place that doesn't have any fuel for their automobiles. And it's. You know, it's Road Warrior shit. And we go, oh, you know what we do? We fill up our cars every night and then drive it in a circle until we burn it all off and then fill it up again the next morning. It is weird that we do that, isn't it?

[D]

Yeah, it's a little excessive.

[B]

It's a little insane. So Survivor now, did it change you?

[C]

Did it.

[B]

Did it ground you? Did it give you a new appreciation for.

[D]

I think that a lot of the people I was on there with were just complete pussies. I mean, I never really struggled outdoors. I mean, I grew up in Missouri, and from the time I was about six years old, I had a gun in my hand running around outside. And so the outdoors part wasn't a problem for me at all. It was like dealing with all the, like, little junior high girl bullshit. And the show should be called Backstabber. Shouldn't be called Survivor, because that's all it is. I mean, all you do is go around and talk shit about everybody. And it was a cool experience, though. I mean, I Would totally do it again. It's a 1 in 20 chance to win a million bucks, so.

[B]

Right.

[D]

It's a pretty good lottery.

[B]

Yeah. Now you were accused of being a racist. You were thrown out of immunity. Was it immunity challenge or a reward challenge you got tossed out of? It was both. Oh, it was immunity and reward?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Who decided to toss you? Probst.

[D]

Yeah, he kind of singled me out. But you know what, that's just the way it is.

[B]

What were you doing that got you tossed out?

[D]

Well, we had this game called Schmergen Ball and it's pretty rough game. I mean, it's a mixture of like football and basketball altogether. You go for these balls, throw them up to your teammates, and they shoot baskets with them.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And I kicked a guy's feet out from underneath him. I was getting choked, punched. Everybody was, you know, pretty rough. And there was this guy named Russell. He's like 230 pounds of just pure muscle. I tried to tackle him, so I kicked his feet out from under him and he ate dirt. And Probst called me out. People were getting body slammed, elbowed, all kinds of stuff. And I kind of had a history of fighting before this, so they kind of singled me out. But it was all right.

[B]

Probst gets a little preachy with that choker of his on, thinking he's running the whole island over there. I like Jeff, but he does get a little tough with some of the contestants every once in a while. And how was Samoa?

[D]

Samoa was beautiful. I mean, it was really cool. There's not any beautiful women there, that's for damn sure. Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It's probably one of the most aesthetically unpleasing when it comes to humankind.

[B]

Well, now all God's creatures are beautiful. And listen, you know, are they heavy set? They have big calves. Like, what's up with the Samoan women?

[D]

Kind of all look the same. And they're. Their feet are huge. Like, you've never seen feet on a woman like this. I mean, they're as wide as mine are long, and I wear 13. So I mean, it's pretty scary to see these huge feet.

[B]

And other than the big, you know, the Fred Flintstone feet, which I think I could get past because I'm not into any of that weird fetish, you know, foot worship crap. I don't trust those cats. What else is wrong with them?

[D]

I mean, they're hard workers. I think half the women there could beat the shit out of half the guys in this country. I mean, it's Pretty sad. But everybody there is really cool. They're really nice, you know, as far as, like, humanity goes. I mean, everybody is. They're just really caring about people there. So it's cool to see how they treat you. And it's built a lot on respect.

[B]

So how does one get from here to there?

[D]

Hop on a plane. You fly to New Zealand.

[B]

You go to New Zealand, and then you go from New Zealand to Samoa? Yep. And what are they? I know nothing about Samoa. Is there more? There's a few aisles, right? Yeah.

[D]

There's American Samoa and then there's regular Samoa.

[B]

Yeah. You guys are regular or American?

[D]

Yeah, we're in a regular Samoa.

[B]

An American Samoa. What do they got over there? Bigger feet? Smaller feet?

[D]

I don't know. I think it's American settlers that America owns the land, so I don't know. It's an American territory.

[B]

Looking at the island chains now, but beautiful azure blue waters, Right. Crystal clear. Warm, right? Yeah.

[D]

It's like Hawaii. It's just Southern hemisphere, so seasons are just different.

[B]

Yeah. Now, did you have any luck fishing?

[D]

I didn't have any fishing gear, so no.

[B]

Shouldn't they give you. I know they'll give you. What do they give you? Some rice and a machete.

[D]

They gave us a machete and a bag to hold stuff in, like a woven bag and a canteen and that was it.

[B]

Not even a tarp and no rice?

[D]

Nope. Because we had plenty of food. I mean, there's bananas, plantains, papayas, lemons, limes. And then you've got the ocean. So we ate crab every morning.

[B]

I mean, you just go. Just go get them and boil the water.

[D]

Yeah, boil them in salt water. It's like eating crab at a restaurant.

[B]

Really different. Yeah. Wow.

[D]

And they have huge, huge coconut crabs. And what they are is they're. They're hermit crabs. They've gotten too big for their shells. I mean, some of them are as big as coconuts. I mean, and they're stronger than a human. I mean, if they get a hold of a tree, you can't pull them off of it.

[B]

Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

[D]

I mean, it's crazy.

[B]

Got a hold of your nuts or something?

[D]

Gone. They can crack coconuts with their claws.

[B]

Really? Yeah. Wait, I'm looking at one now.

[D]

Look at that big ass thing.

[B]

You mean their claw can crack a coconut shell?

[D]

Oh, it could take your hand off.

[B]

I know. Because coconut shells. I mean, there's nothing harder. I mean, coconut shells, you can just beat on with like a machete and it'll just bounce back and hit you in the forehead so they can crack a coconut shell. They eat coconuts?

[D]

Yep, that's what they eat. That's how you catch them. You break open coconuts and you set them out. And then the crabs will come up to them and they hide in the weirdest places. They're up in the trees, they're all around. I mean, you see how big that thing is?

[B]

They are ugliest looking things I've ever seen in my life.

[D]

Yeah, it's. It's like another creature. You're not used to seeing it. When you do see it, it's kind of shocking. But they taste good.

[B]

But when you're sleeping on the ground or near the ground, we built a.

[D]

Shelter and we built it off the ground. It was funny. One of the guys said, let's just build it on the ground. I said, man, you're in the jungle. We'll be eating alive.

[B]

If one of those coconut crabs got near me while I was asleep, I would defecate while screaming at the top of my lungs while crying, I would freak out. Were those things crawling around like just as you slept and as you did your thing?

[D]

I mean, we found spots where they would just be like almost every day, like certain parts of trees. And sometimes you have to smoke them out. Sometimes, you know, if they grab a hold, you just can't reach in there and grab them. I mean, you got to put ash or something in there to get them to come out.

[B]

Uh huh.

[D]

And so it's a little bit of a process, but I mean, and when.

[B]

You, when you boiled them, they tasted just like the crab you'd get down at the Red Lobster.

[D]

Absolutely.

[B]

Wow. Jesus, they are freaky. You know, I will say this. The only thing possibly in the crab department uglier than the coconut crab is the horseshoe crab. You ever see a horseshoe crab?

[D]

I have seen a horseshoe crab.

[B]

Here's how you know a horseshoe crab is ugly. Horseshoe crab is 200 billion years old. Like it never changed. Anything that never changes is ugly. Everything that evolves gets. You know, cheetahs aren't 200 billion years old.

[D]

Crocodiles, for instance.

[B]

Yes. Anything where they just go, you know what we're God or Darwin or whatever, just goes, no need to modify this. I'll see you in a couple billion years. We'll change you then. Maybe. Yeah, show me a picture of a horseshoe crab. Like from the top, they look like, like Darth Vader's helmet with a weird pointy tail on them. And they're literally one of the oldest Creatures like, look at that thing.

[D]

Yeah, look, alien.

[B]

Look how scary that thing is. And again, if you're that, why should you change who's beating up on you?

[D]

It's like an armadillo and a stingray had a baby.

[B]

Yeah. And by the way, that was not consensual sex. The armadillo raped the stingray. It was. Their love child was a horseshoe crab. Yeah. Now horseshoe crabs, though, I don't think they got the big pinchers like the coconut crabs. Yeah, I don't think they're the coconut crab. If you just put your pinky out, would just snap it right off. Like some sheet metal shears. Right.

[D]

It'd be like clipping a cigar.

[B]

Wow. But they look pretty big. It looks like you'd get some meat off those things.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, we didn't get any that were that big, but they stay pretty high in the trees.

[B]

But how the hell do those things climb trees?

[D]

They got those claws. I mean, they can break open a coconut.

[B]

So they go up to the tree, snip off the coconut, coconut falls down, come down the tree and bust the coconut open. Yeah.

[D]

If there's not any on the ground. I mean, usually there's enough coconuts on the ground, but they're up in the trees, they're in the rocks. I mean, they can climb anywhere. When you go onto the cliffs, you see all the other little kind of crabs and they just scatter. I mean, we ate a lot of those too.

[B]

You see Keith Richards up in the tree at any point.

[D]

I didn't have any of the substances to see Keith Richards up in the tree.

[B]

Well, speaking of substances, no smoking, no boozing.

[D]

I did get a cigarette while I was there. One of the crew guys dropped a cigarette and that was a nice little bounty.

[B]

A little taste of home he dropped. He should have. It was like. It's like prison. Yeah.

[D]

Prison cash.

[B]

Probably could have gotten a blow job for that. Yeah. So I. I mean, just the idea of like I love drinking my red wine and I drink my red wine every night and I don't know how I would go X amount of days without that red wine at night. Or just whatever, just espn, just any of that stuff. But maybe, maybe it's life affirming. I mean, maybe that's the only way to do it. You can't sit home next to your red wine and your flat screen and not watch it or drink it. You have to just be dropped off somewhere where it isn't. Right, Right.

[D]

I mean, if you don't have it, then you don't have it. It's not like you can just go to the store in Samoa and be like, hey, let me have a bottle of red wine.

[B]

So the process was you guys got dropped off. How many days in total were you on the island?

[D]

The show lasts for 39 days. So you're. You're there for about, I don't know, four, four to six days, I guess beforehand. And that while they're prepping everything and then all of a sudden you're just.

[B]

In the game and you competed for how many days?

[D]

I was on the show for eight days.

[B]

And then you still stay there until. Because now if you're, if you, if you get booted after eight days, you're not on the committee. Right.

[D]

You're not on the jury. Correct.

[B]

You' on the jury. So why are they keeping you there?

[D]

Well, they can't send you back to the States because then that would show that.

[B]

Because you'd get drunk and start flapping your gums at some chick and next thing you know, the cat would be out of the bags. That. To keep you sort of sequestered. Right. So what is that process? Like, is there is a four star hotel?

[D]

No, no, you're. I mean, you're staying at Ponderosa and it's, you know, we stayed in metal cabins. I mean, it wasn't.

[B]

They just have like a loser camp. We just go there pretty much.

[D]

And there's really. You can watch movies, eat, drink. I mean, they have a bar there. So I mixed up a lot of drinks.

[B]

Sure. Well, you're mixologist, right?

[D]

I am. I'm at the Buffalo Club in Santa Monica now. And it's a good time.

[B]

What's your drink? What's. What's your. What's your. What are you known for?

[D]

I'm out and about. I mean, I'm always on a motorcycle, so I usually just drink beer if I'm sitting with my buddies, then I drink whiskey.

[B]

What do you, what are you famous for, though, in terms of like, what is the drink you do the best?

[D]

I'm actually famous for a drink called Halle Berry and it's a jalapeno and BlackBerry cocktail and it's pretty popular. I take it to every restaurant that I open.

[B]

It's weird when the Halle Berry. It's weird how the Bloody Mary caught on. Like, when you think about just the name, like, I dig the tomato juice and the vodka and a little celery salt. But. But the fact that we call it the Bloody Mary seems like I feel like let's Pick up another name. Let's go with Big Red or something. You know, something that doesn't remind me of someone getting their head lopped off or the blood or. You know what I mean? It's weird that. That one, you know, like, it's like, it's like. It's like if they called like, you know, kahluan Milk, like Ass Juice or something, and it just went like, all right, well, it's kind of brown. Yeah, I could see that. No, you give it a good name, right? Yeah. Like. Like the. Like the Halle Berry of jalapeno berry.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So what berry do you do?

[D]

BlackBerry.

[B]

BlackBerry. And you say jalapeno vodka.

[D]

It's gin based. It's aviation gin and Cointreau. Some fresh lime juice, some simple syrup, little bit of lemon oil. And then muddled jalapeno and blackberries. That's good. You smell citrus, then you taste blackberries. Then it finishes with a little heat from the jalapeno.

[B]

What do people. What are the kids drinking these days? Like, you know, it's funny that drinks, they have like a cycle. Like they go away for a while. Like the mojito, like, it was around then it was gone. Now it's back, you know, or trying to think of the other. Like a mint julep or whatever. Like, you know, 100 years old and went away, was completely gone, and now it's back again. Like, what's happened? The renaissance.

[D]

There's a big renaissance, if you want to call it that, of the classic cocktails. And from the 30s, from prohibition era, that's making a huge comeback. And it's all fresh cocktails now. I mean, any place that's not using fresh squeezed juices places isn't really up to par. There's a lot of really great places downtown. There's some places in West Hollywood. Roger room's really great.

[B]

I can't believe probation. Like, I can't believe they actually tried to get rid of booze, you know, like, they thought that would work. If you think about how many people, you know, and how much, how many of them love booze in all different forms, whether it's, you know, drinking a beer, watching the ball game, or going out for a cocktail, or even, you know, celebrating with champagne or whatever it is, the idea that the government thought we could do away with this total utter insanity.

[D]

Not chafing without the social lubrication.

[B]

Yeah. Didn't anyone raise their hand and go, first off, how do you think this is going to work? And then secondly, how am I going to get laid. Like, I can't believe that everyone just went, well, this is going to work. We didn't know enough. I mean, it wasn't ancient times. Didn't we know that? Like, look, people are going to be cooking this stuff up in bathtubs and then there's going to be speakeasies and then people, there's going to be rum runners and then there's going to be a black market and then there's going to be a mafia. And I mean, didn't we, we didn't know that. What do we think people are going to go like, oh, all right, well, well, let's see. You have any Mr. Pibb? Or how about a grape knee high? I'm cool. Like, did they just think immediately like we just go, yeah, yeah, screw that.

[C]

I don't know.

[D]

I think it's very similar to how marijuana is treated right now.

[B]

Yes, I've said this about marijuana a million times and it's still in the news. They never stop talking about it, you know, oh, there's another dispensary that got busted or there's, there's something, some initiative to make it illegal or make it legal. Why the fuck are we even talking about it? The people that I know and who have known who smoke pot, I'm looking at one of them now smoke pot. And then there's people I know who don't smoke pot and they never change based on whether it's illegal, whether there's a dispensary, whether there's a joint, whether whatever. Some people smoke pot, they like pot, they enjoy pot, and then there's other people that don't smoke pot. That's it. It's not. The legality part doesn't stop the people who are gonna smoke the pot from smoking the pot. And if you made it legal, wouldn't start. My dad, my dad wouldn't go out and buy bong because you made it legal. All of a sudden it's kind of.

[D]

A no brainer for tax dollars, in my opinion. I mean, oh my God.

[B]

God, you look at alcohol, how much.

[D]

Tax they, you know, gain on that? I mean, marijuana would be the same thing.

[B]

Well, can I say this too? Uh oh, Donnie's fired up. Donnie, I have a point here. I was thinking about suing the federal government for not regulating it, getting the FDA in it, taxing it. I'm pissed. You know, I want some clean regulated. Yeah, yeah. Well, let me. He's got to go to some kind of weird drug dealer. Even these dispensaries are Weird people. Let me float this. As a society, like, we understand, okay? Like, if you run, like, back in the day, if you were in the prison. In a prison or the military, they'd put some salt peter in your food so you wouldn't be so amorous, you know what I mean? Because the last thing you need is 3,000 guys all cooped up in the same place for 10 years, all average age, 22, with boners, right? So somebody figured out, look, hey, man, when you serve up the shit on a shingle, serve up a little saltpeter on that and these guys won't be trying to buttfuck each other in the shower. Okay? We understand that concept, and it's a good one, too. Listen, if I was in the joint or in the Army, I wish someone would give me something, or I'd be walking around with a boner at 21. I understand that. Don't we understand that pot actually is good for society? Like, pot takes people that are stressed out, mellows them out a little. If you took away the alcohol, especially the speed, the cocaine and the whatever and replaced it with marijuana, you'd have much less violent crime. You've had much less, like, vehicular manslaughter. Do you think everybody would be fighting at the end of the night at a bar? No. Of all those.

[D]

Where's my keys?

[B]

Yeah, well, that would happen. All those guys. All those guys, those soccer hooligans or sports fans who take to the streets and turn over cabs and shit. Those guys are all drunk. They're not stoned. So as a fucking society, when you have one thing, the alcohol, as your brother will attest to, because those guys were sitting on his bike and probably drunk, because they're outside of a bar sitting on a motorcycle, those guys were drunk. And alcohol makes people violent. And it also emboldens people. They drive faster than they think. What's that? Liquid compost. Right, right. Versus this other substance which makes people. The saltpeter makes him a little dude. So as a society, do you want us getting raped in the shower, or do you want your guys just back in their cell quietly beating off and. Listen, I don't promote kids smoking weed. I still think it should be, like, at 21, you can start smoking some weed. But, yeah, the alcohols. Hold on. Johnny, how old were you when you started smoking weed? Listen, my kids start, by the way. Listen. I like, listen.

[E]

Listen.

[B]

Marijuana was.

[D]

Listen.

[B]

Powerful as it is. Listen. That never means 23, by the way. Listen. Means 14 and a half, all right? But look at you, you turned out fine. I'm okay, I've hold a job, I love my family. Can anybody complain about me and my weed? Substance? I have my moments, but yeah, no, you're fine. Thanks. All right, the point is, when are we going to evolve into just. And by the way, how about we give people a choice? It's a civil liberty.

[D]

Let them vote.

[B]

Let them vote and let them. You know, it always angered me that the group, the Gun Toters, and I'm for if you want to have a gun, you should have a gun. But it always made me angry that the group, the NRA especially, but just the gun toting group, were the guys that were against the pot and the marijuana. And because those guys argument would always be, I'm American, we live in a free society. Unless I use this gun to rob a liquor store, then it's none of the government's business whether I own a gun, I have it to protect my home, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And fine. Okay, that's their argument. You get to have a gun and you can have a gun and then if you go try to rob a Denny's, we get to arrest you. That's the rule. So you should be able to have pieces smoke your pot and if you try to drive a school bus, then we get to arrest you.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

But we shouldn't get to arrest you because you want to sit in the privacy of your own home or in most cases apartment and smoke the weed. And if anything, that's their fucking saltpeter. It subdues them.

[D]

It's funny because I think there's 11 or 14 states or something that have passed medical marijuana and they give you limits on how much you can grow. So if you get a prescription in California, you can have six flowering plants. But it's kind of a stupid thing anyway because people can get together and co op and put all their licenses together and grow as many plants as they want. As long as I get Adam and Denny and me, I can grow 18 plants. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right? Yeah. Well, again, it's just one more piece of red tape, one more hassle, one more, you know, we have bigger fish to fry. That's basically what I'm saying. Look, we do this thing where once a year, you know, they do some 20, 20 or 48 hours or 60 minutes expose where they take some spent uranium and they bring it through the Port of Los Angeles and no one checks the container truck. And then they talk to the DEA or whoever they're talking to. And they say, well we just don't have enough manpower to check every container truck that leaves the port of Los Angeles. All right, good. We do have manpower. They're just working on pot and they're working on nonsense that we don't give a shit about. Take them and put them on the shit we give a shit about. I'm sure if you polled most Americans they would rank terrorist attack a little higher on their things to do list than nickel bag than do be at the park. Right, Right. So just as a government, just fucking do what we tell you to do. It's the same thing I tell the cops. We don't have the man part. Yes you do. Just get the guys on the bike parked up the hill giving out the chicken shit tickets for rolling through the four way stop signs and get that guy. Stopping gang violence. That's all just. It's not more men. It's taking the troops and putting them where we want them put. And by the way, were the society you're supposed to be protecting. We're your bosses. Just do it.

[D]

Serve and protect. I think that's what it says on the car.

[B]

Oh yes, I know, I know. I saw, I don't know, I passed one, I passed one, I don't know San Bernardino or I passed a cop car and I don't know where I was, Santa Monica or something. It said 150 years of service or something. And I was thinking what, what did you guys have back then? One horse and one guy on it. It was on the take wearing one of those pointy hats. Like I'm not buying that. But the best talked about many times. West Hollywood sheriff. Gay flag on the side of the car.

[D]

Yeah, they do have the rainbow on.

[B]

The side of the car. You seen that? So awesome. Love that gay flag on the side of the car.

[D]

The first, the first weekend I was in Los Angeles I moved here about five years ago. I had an ex girlfriend and she invited me to go out for drinks and I didn't know West Hollywood was, you know, the gay area.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

And end up going to this little bar, Fiesta Cantina. And I walk in there and all the guys are looking at me and I'm like, I'm in a gay bar, you know. Alright. I'm with two hot chicks and they're looking at my shoes. So I went up to the bar to order a drink and this guy came up behind me and pushed me up against the bar and said, you're going to be my.

[B]

Really?

[D]

And I turned around and I said, I'll knock your fucking teeth out. And I said, listen, you fucking faggot. And everybody got really pissed off. And they're like, you're a fucking redneck. You're a homophobe. I'm like, no, I'm like. And that's the same thing with the racism. If somebody says something offensive to me, I have every right to say something offensive back.

[B]

I completely agree.

[D]

If I walked up to a girl and said, I'm gonna fuck you in the ass tonight, and she turns around and kicks me in the balls and scratching my eyes out, I deserved it.

[B]

It. You know what I mean?

[D]

It's the same thing. So if a guy comes up to me and they say, oh, you're in the gay area. You have to. No, I still have self respect. And I don't care if somebody's gay or not. That's their business. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[D]

And I really could care less. I have friends of all different walks of life.

[C]

Sure.

[D]

But also when somebody.

[B]

But no, no, I agree. Once the person starts, knocks over the first domino, you're allowed to do whatever you want.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

And I've, I've, I'm, I'm, I'm at the point, by the way, I'm such a weirdo with this, which is if somebody jumps into someone's yard and tries to steal their patio umbrella and the guy who owns the house shoots him, my answer is always, don't fuck with a guy's patio umbrella. Like, and people will go, well, don't you think that's a little bit harsh? Getting shot for a patio umbrella? And I go, yeah, it is. But that's. Once you hop a guy's fence and go onto his property, well, then shit happens. Or can happen.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

And I'm not saying that I want the guy arrested, brought into court, and then shot for stealing the patio umbrella. I'm just saying once you start, whatever you start, once you begin that sequence, you have begun that sequence. That was your call. If a guy cuts you off and you get out of your car and go get the out of the car, and Chuck Liddell steps out of the car, that's bad. That's bad for you. But you began the sequence in motion. You lit the match. So when you try to light a match under your ass at the bar, then, yeah, you're allowed to say whatever you want. I completely concur. And also, I know fag has been taken off. It's a no fly word now, but it's recent and I would like to be grandfathered in. I really would with fag. I know a lot of people take umbrage to that, but, I mean, just like the guys who played in the NHL who didn't have to wear the helmet after they made the helmet rule. I think if you grew up like I did in the 70s, calling your buddies faggot, then you get to use it. The next generation doesn't get to use it. I would like that with all swear words and all racial epithets, which is whoever grew up. Like, it's like once in a while, you'll talk to some. It's like you'll talk to. Even my grandmother's the most progressive person on the planet. 96 years old, you know, but she'll say, well, we had a friend, he was negro, you know, and it's like, you know, you want to go, oh, you're not. And then you go, ah, that's. That's whatever you said, right? Whatever you said. Growing up is what you get to say now, right? I feel that same way with the racial slurs.

[D]

It was funny that I was. I was called a racist and by the guy. The guy that called me a racist on the show. I read some stuff about him saying that he. He's a black guy, he's very successful, went to law school and stuff, but he wouldn't go to any of his, like, black graduation everything. And all the other people would call him incog, as incog Negro. And he was like, the whitest black guy I've ever met.

[B]

I mean, incog Negro, silent.

[D]

And it was funny. I said, man, if anybody's racist, it's you. I mean, he said the word hoe referred to black women.

[B]

Oh, really? That's like. That's what you would call your mom.

[D]

I said. I said, this girl is a hoe. She's pretty much trash.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[D]

And he was like, well, if you call somebody hoe, that's referring to them as being black.

[B]

Oh, no, give it up, dude. Like, yeah, it's a lot of rap songs, but I think there's certainly. I've met a few white hoes. I don't even know what's hoes. Is ho short for hoes or ho or what? What short is ho? Just short for. How lazy do you have to be that you can't say the whole word whore? You know what I mean? So it's what Mike is to Michael. So ho is whore. Yes. And I think it's kind of like an ebonic. What is it called?

[D]

Ebonics.

[B]

I don't know. Oh, it's just slang. Slang. Yeah. All right, well, we'll give Snoop Dogg credit for it. All right, Ben.

[D]

I know.

[B]

Donnie, quiet with the door, would you? Over there. Jesus Christ, how many times we gotta talk about the same thing? Yeah. All right there, Weezer. Trying to run a professional show over here. Ben, how about you toss out a website or a bar name or something where people. People can find you?

[D]

People can check me out at the Buffalo Club. It's 1520 Olympic in Santa Monica. I also have a drink company called Marque Platinum drink platinum dot com.

[B]

And so you go to drinkplatinum dot com.

[D]

Yeah. And you can check out. It's an all natural vitality drink.

[B]

Oh, really?

[D]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[B]

Should have brought one.

[D]

I should have.

[B]

I chug it right now with a little jalapeno gin mixed in. Ben Browning, thank you for coming in and joining us on the podcast. And for now, next time, or until next time, this is Adam for Ben saying mahalo.

[A]

All right, that was episode 192 with Ben Browning from 2009. Coming up next, we have Adam Cole show 195 featuring Dale Claire, Alex Campbell and Richard Lee. One of these guys directed Doug Benson's Super High Me. They're all supporting a ballot initiative for taxing marijuana back in 2009, 2010. Probably a Donnie booking again. Another episode nobody's heard since it aired. Let's go back and check this one out.

[B]

Welcome Dale Claire, Alex Campbell and Richard Lee, all here on behalf of the Spleef. Everybody talking about marijuana, Alex and Richard. Well, Alex, you directed or produced Super High. Main producer. Produced. Produced Super High Me, our good friend Doug Benson's movie. Richard, you go give us your title, actually.

[E]

President of Oaksterdam University and also president oftax cannabis 2010, our initiative for the 2010 ballot.

[B]

So you're saying not only should this be legalized or decriminalized, but we should make money off it? I mean, I mean, we should tax it.

[E]

Definitely. We tax alcohol. So we should tax cannabis. We tax everything, you know, we want to. People should pay their fair share for roads and police and firefighters.

[B]

It is one of those things that you can never wrap your mind around because all our government wants. I mean, our government literally just sits around all day thinking of new ways to make money from the people they're supposed to be serving. And, I mean, that's what they do. You know, I tell people all the time when they talk about the conspiracy theory, I say, no, no, no, it's too big. A calorie burner for the government to, you know, rig up the levees and, you know, drown all the black people. New Orleans, or to bring down the Twin Towers. It's toothat's a calorie burner. They make money. They keep the peace and they make money. And here's something staring at them in the face. This is revenue they could be making from marijuana, and yet they choose to ignore.

[F]

I think the issue is they're in direct conflict with the individuals whose job it is to think up ways to spend money, which tends to be the law enforcement.

[B]

Well, I heard a statistic probably about four or five years ago that this country spent more on marijuana eradication. Again, this is four or five years ago, than meth. And I wanted to just vomit into my fucking hat. Like, I couldn't believe that we were spending the kind of money we're spending. And also I wanted to say, like, you know, we all have this. There's this. I actually wrote this down the other day. I wanted to do a segment called what Were we thinking? But be present day about it. Like, when you think about, well, here's a separate drinking fountain for black people and a separate drinking fountain for white people and, you know, gays can't rent apartment buildings or whatever. Whatever. Whatever injustice that was going on in the past, or even if it was prohibition, like, hey, we're gonna get rid of all. All. We're gonna get rid of all alcohol. And there's a part of you that just wants to go, what were we thinking? Like, did anyone think that was gonna work? Like, we're gonna get rid of booze or it'll be the year 2075, and we'll have black drinking fountains and white drinking fountains. Like, someone had to raise their hand and go, this is never gonna. This is never going to work. I feel the same way about pot. Can't someone just raise their hand and go, really? Do we really think 50 years from now this is not going to be legalized? We're still going to be arguing over it. It's going to be eventually, pot will win. It has to. I think you bring up a good.

[E]

Point, though, that there's a lot of history behind it. Like, with racism, it's not just an easy thing to just say, well, this is stupid, and let's stop it. Because there's a lot of history of bigotry and hatred that's been built up over the years. And, you know, so we have the same thing with people being anti cannabis.

[B]

Well, the first thing the first mistake we made and all the politicians not we were cool, you know, but the politicians make is just the umbrella of drugs. Those are drugs. You know what I mean? Not knowing the difference between the way marijuana affects, forget the individual society and what the aforementioned speed does to society or alcohol or quaaludes or cocaine or whatever it is we're talking about. It's not just drugs. They do that thing. He was high on drugs. We who've done drugs know very well and who have friends who've done drugs know the difference between the friends that are high on coke and the ones that are high on wheat, which is essentially one is docile and easy to deal with and the other, you have to get out the fucking pepper spray and the duct tape just to get them into the car. Right.

[F]

Cannabis is safer, not just for you, but for those around you. True.

[B]

I was doing a podcast a couple of last week or something saying as a society you almost would like people. I said, like, they put salt Peter, in the food in prison. It makes everyone a little more docile, stops the fighting, brings down the violent crime. And the only way the crime gets entered into the equation is when you make it illegal and turn it into a black, create a black market for it and get a bunch of rich Mexican drug lords even richer.

[F]

You bring up a good point that many of the negatives that are currently associated with cannabis, the plant, are truly drugs from prohibition itself.

[B]

I know they do that thing where they go like, what do you mean marijuana is not dangerous? What about all the federales that are doing battle with the drug cartels out of Mexico? Have you ever seen what a 13 year old child looks like when a stray bullet hits them? It's like, yeah, cuz you assholes made it illegal. It's the crazy. It's like when they do that, it's like when they would, the commercial that would drive me insane is right after 9, 11. It'd be like, they do these PSAs were like, you buying those drugs is funding Al Qaeda. No, no, you making it illegal. Fucking funding Al Qaeda. You retards. You've created a black market. It's not me who wants to get high or get whatever drugs. It's funding Al Qaeda. It's you that have made it illegal. That's funding Al Qaeda. Creating the mob essentially, which what you did the first time around. So no, it's not our fault. It's your fault for making it illegal. And I don't understand in the society we're living in, what the fuck's the difference between weed and anything else you could mishandle or misuse. I mean, you could take a car and drive it through a farmer's market or you could take a car and you could pick up your kid from daycare. It's all about what you do with the car. It's not the car. Cars aren't, they're like guns. They're not inherently good or evil, can be used to keep the peace and they can be used to kill people in drive bys. I thought our society was set up that you got to have a gun in a car and then we would get you into trouble if you, you, you got in your car and shot your gun. Isn't that the way our, that was our society, was it? No, that was the plan, right? Yeah.

[E]

Unfortunately we seem to have given up on freedom a lot in this country. Everybody's really willing to sell it out, you know, thinking it'll make them safer. But it doesn't work that way. It's actually made it worse. As you talked about, don't you think.

[B]

Most politicians are just pussies? I mean, I mean they're hypocrites, but they're just pussies. Like most politicians, I don't think give a shit about marijuana but they have to pretend like they're hard on drugs. Like I'm tough on drugs, taking a tough stance on drugs. So, so for them they have to pretend because again, marijuana falls under the umbrella of drugs. They have to take a tough stance on drugs. But it's just a lot of posturing. Like I'm sure half of them get high and the other half wish more their constituency would get high so they wouldn't have enough energy to tag freeway overpasses. But they just go fuck it. Like I don't want to get lumped in with the, I don't want the guy running against to say I'm soft on drugs. Drugs. Does that sound accurate?

[E]

Definitely. And if you don't mind, I'd like to plug our initiative with that because that's the reason we are working on our voter initiative because the politicians are behind on this issue. Just with medical marijuana, that had to be passed by the voters directly because the politicians, you know, like you said, are cowards. They're going to wait for, you know, the people really to act first and then they're going to follow, you know, when it's safe because they don't want to do anything. That's, you know, where they stick their neck out.

[B]

Well, you know, I used to argue with the good doctor, Dr. Drew about the medical marijuana all the time, and he's a little uptight about it for a guy who's not really uptight. He was always a little uptight about the, you know what so called medical marijuana. And he'd say, you know, we have medication that is more effective than this for, I don't know, glaucoma or apartment appetite enhancer, whatever. And I would just always just go, yeah, but who gives a shit? Like if somebody says a bong load makes them feel better, so what if you got some pills that you claim are better than what the guy ate or smoked or whatever? Who gives a shit? He wasn't hungry before. Now he ripped a B load and he is hungry. So tough shit. It worked for him. Like, who gives a shit? Why are we arguing about this? So you can still sell your pills and you can still have your alternatives to marijuana. But if the guy with glaucoma says it relieves the pressure in his eyeballs and so fucking leave him alone, what do I give a shit for? That's the part. I can't figure this part out about our society. Where's all the fucking calorie burning coming from? You know what I mean? Like, he wants to smoke pot. Doug Benson loves weed. I love red wine. I don't give a fuck if he likes pot, and he doesn't give a fuck if I like red wine. Why are we getting each other's shit? Law enforcement has to justify their budgets. That's it. Right? That's a big part of it.

[F]

And right now, more people are in prison for possession than for sales. This is the first time in history that that's flipped. And we just found that out at the legislative hearings with Tom Amiano. He is one of the few politicians who has bravely led the battle into having the conversations on the Hill.

[B]

Really?

[F]

Really. So those. Those folks that say they're not in jail.

[B]

Let me digest this. There's more people in prison right now for possession than there are for people who. For dealing for sales.

[F]

And let's not forget that sales are perceived. So if a cop walks up and you have your cannabis in three different containers, he decides that that's intent to sell, and that's what you go to prison for. It's not even getting caught in the act of sales.

[A]

It's.

[B]

Or if you have over a certain amount of sale as well. Right?

[F]

Correct.

[B]

This is another thing. And people who have heard me scream about this, now would be the time to take a shower, come back in five Minutes when I'm done screaming about this. This whole intent thing without the actual sales part is insane to me. It'd be. It's like somebody breaking in here because I got a boner and going, you're going to rape somebody. You were gonna. You were gonna visit a prostitute? Like I'm not allowed to have a boner. How the fuck did you know what. I was gonna. Maybe I was just gonna go beat off in the kitchen. Like, I mean, I only did that once. The point is this. Every. Every. We live in a society. The motherfucking guys who were the North Hollywood bank robbers got pulled over before they robbed the North Hollywood bank 10 years ago. And they found fucking body armor and banana clips and cop killing rounds and. And shortwave radios and duct tape, like everything you'd need to fucking rob a bank, you know, takeover style. Those guys were beaked out of their brains on speed, by the way. No, no pot in their system. That was all methamphetamine. But anyway, they found all the things you'd use when you were going to rob a bank. Except for we hadn't caught them robbing the bank. So because we live in such a free society, everyone understood, well, there's nothing we can do. You know what I mean? I mean, we can take away some of the illegal modified AK47s they have, but even the other shit we had to give back to them, like the police scanner and all that shit, because we need to catch them robbing a bank. So what now? Now we understand that. So if you catch me with a pillowcase full of weed, I'm selling it. Maybe I like to stock up on weed. That's the insane part. You don't have to catch someone selling the weed, but yet you have to catch them robbing a liquor store, and you have to catch them raping someone, and you have to catch them robbing a bank. You have to fucking catch them in everything. Our judicial system is set up that way. Except for the part where you can't have a bunch of weed. That's insane to me. It'd be. It'd be like saying, I like to buy. I like to go to Costco and buy lots of big cans of garbanzo beans. And then someone's got said, you're gonna open a restaurant. I'd be like, no, I like garbanzo beans. No, you're not. Something's going on. You're opening a salad bar. I need to see a license. Where's the health inspector? I need to put one of those Letters outside your window like, I just like to stock up on fucking garbanzo beans. It's not your fucking business.

[F]

If you go buy a case of beer for you and your friends, does that mean you're gonna try. You have intent to sell the other beers off because you have multiple containers.

[B]

I'm good for sixer. And then the way I recoup the cost of the, of the case is I sell it. I go down to MacArthur park and I sell it for five bucks a can of the sweaty Mexicans. I make them and then I put that money back into the business. It's off the Costco again? Yeah, that's what I do. It's insane that they can accuse you of intending to sell or distribute this thing when they don't catch you selling it or distributing it. But again, who gives a fuck what. Jesus Christ. We half the fucking kids aren't graduating high school. The infrastructure's falling apart. We don't have a goddamn bullet train to Vegas that we're talking about since I was in high school. We don't have fucking bigger fish to fry than pot politicians. This is why I never want to stop vomiting, because I know they don't give a shit. They're all just scared shitless. Sorry. Well, but LA City Council did put forth something they're going to outlaw declined cats this way week. It's nice to see them moving in the right direction. How much money do you think if we just did with pot, what we do with booze and, and, or cigarettes and, and by the way, that's not just tax, but that's sinner tax stuff too. I mean, pack of cigarettes could be 80 cents if it wasn't four bucks worth of taxes on there. Right.

[F]

The numbers that came out of the University of Boston are that we currently spend, or we could save $7.7 billion in cannabis prohibition costs nationally and then turn around if we tax, similar to alcohol, $6.2 billion in taxes nationwide. That's a $13 billion margin. We're not trying to save the economy, but that's a pretty good chunk.

[B]

Yeah. So you're saying take the money that we're currently wasting on the eradication and all the DEA bullshit. So that obviously that's one big. I mean, literally, according to your numbers, almost half of the pie and then the other half is then physically making money off of it taxes.

[F]

And that's not my numbers, that's the University of Boston.

[B]

And again, I wonder if they taxed it. Probably using the same yardstick they measure taxing alcohol.

[F]

Alcohol, right. If we taxed it similar to other goods like you know, bread, it would be about 2.2 billion. If we taxed it similar to alcohol, it would be 6.2 billion.

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah, again you'd use the same yardstick.

[F]

You, either way you're still saving 7.

[B]

Alcohol and fuck, you could toss in another 20% of sinners tax and they, you know, the stoners would definitely go for it. Yeah, I, again, doesn't make sense. Sense to me. And especially we're so strapped for cash as a country and as a state, as a city. We're constantly looking at new ways to try to sort of bilk the good people of our country out of more of their hard earned money. This just seems like a no brainer. And again, it's going to happen. It's just going to happen like it will come to pass. Politicians should have an eye on these things and not want to be historically on the side. You look back and you're like, well, Chamberlain met with Hitler and said he was a good guy, so he's a dick. And historically should be seen as a dickhole. And they'll be the guys that said, you know, they didn't want to get involved with World War II and those guys are douchebags now historically because the guys over there melting Jews and obviously we should have gone over there and bombed the fuck out of those idiots. And there's, there's those and there's the guys who are, you know, taking the side of segregation and all that. We look back at all these, you know, I was just, I watched the first, I don't know, half hour of milk milk last night only, only beat off twice. And they showed some archival footage of like Anita Bryant, you know, up there in Dade county saying that gay men should not be allowed or afforded the same rights as non gays. And now we look at her, it's like, hey bitch, how wrong were you? So historically you fuck up and then we look at you and we go, what the fuck were you thinking? I feel like all politicians should be in that mode at all times.

[F]

You actually almost bring us right into jury immunity as a culture. We stopped prosecuting on those crimes. As you say, what were they thinking? The jury stopped convicting. And we have that opportunity here. Jury immunity means that if you have a cannabis case in court, you can choose to not convict and nothing bad will happen to you as a juror. So we can stop convicting on these cannabis crimes. If that happens, they're going to stop bringing them to court because prosecutors don't like to lose. So we as a society have that civil ability and responsibility to stop convicting on these crimes. If we don't feel people should go to jail for it anymore.

[B]

Well, it sort of brings me and I wish more people again. We talk about like, where do you get the calories to burn for shit you don't care about I or are not involved with? Like, I'm not a pot smoker. I don't mind pot. I smoke on occasion. I've side with all the pot smokers just because I want them to be free. I just feel like if you want to smoke pot, you should be able to smoke pot. Just like if they tried to take away I, I'd side with with someone if they tried to take away your cat or your car or the underdog. Listen, I come from a lot. My mom was a hasher back in the day. I smoked my fair share of weed. All the pot smokers I know are amongst the nicest people. Forgetful but nicest people I know. They're not troublemakers. So I'm curious about Donnie's, our resident hasher, by the way. Thank you. Thank you very much. Can I ask you a question? Go. Door open. Somebody in that bathroom? Wait, we're supposed to be focusing on weed here. I have to go on a small jag here. Nope, nobody in there. I really need to get to the bottom of this. Closing the bathroom door after you exit the bathroom. Now I know you can make up the I just shit up the joint argument. That bathroom has a urinal in it and no commode, just a urinal. So I'm going to take a piss and then I'm going to shut the door and I'm going to leave the light on so that the next guy has to take a piss can stand by the door and wonder who's in there for a while. And then do the sheepish back finger knuckle knock. And why do you shut the door? Especially in a fucking party. But why do you shut the door? When you leave the bathroom, the door's open. We're not talking about greenhouse gas. Who did that? I don't know who decides to leave the light on. My money's on August. Shut the door and then leave. What? Both bathroom doors were shut, by the way, the last break and no one was in there. Let's get back on to something more important here for some second. But you only have.

[C]

How.

[B]

How do people have bowel movements? You can.

[C]

Don't get them started.

[B]

Urinal I don't understand. I want to get back into this.

[D]

Oh, no.

[B]

The bowel movement. I'm just going to say that right now. Very valid question. You're not asking how the. The colon have a ur. I mean, there is a toilet on. In the next bathroom that mark. Female but people like to shut both doors, leave both lights on and then walk away. All right, let's get back to the top on hand. A couple things I'm wondering. Now, it was outlawed because you needed the tax stamp in 38, but then Timothy Leary somehow got it legalized or the tax stamp became irrelevant and then Nixon put it on the hard narcotics list.

[F]

Schedule one drug.

[B]

Okay. But definitely, if we look at it today, it's not that dangerous of a drug the way that they've scheduled it or stated it.

[E]

The problem is the DEA has responsibility to look at the scientific research and decide whether or not it should be rescheduled. And of course the DEA says no, it's still more dangerous than crack as far as we're concerned. It's the fox guarding the hen house.

[F]

One of the issues that we're miseducating our youth. And when they walk in and we have all these horror stories about what pot's going to do to you and nothing bad happens, why should they believe us when we talk about methamphetamines or cocaine?

[B]

We should tell them the truth. Personally, I don't think kids should smoke weed until they're 21, excluding myself.

[F]

And that's part of the initiative is.

[E]

Over 21 that the kids, you know, when you tell them the cannabis is worse than alcohol, then they go out OD on booze or, you know, get quiet.

[B]

Let me talk for a second. Wait one more thing and I'll run out of the room. It brings me to the point where they're lying to us. I'd like to sue the government because of this false information. And also I want the stuff legalized, regulated and cleaned up out of the, the, you know, I don't know, the prohibition mob mentality, people who are controlling it. That's. I just wanted to thank for your question from the audience.

[E]

And that's what our initiatives is set to do next, next November. Hopefully we'll get the votes. We'll get it on the ballot and get the votes. If you want to support us, you can go to taxcannabis.org for more information or to make a donation.

[B]

Stepped on your. Your plug. Go ahead. I'll go back into my cup. Please go ahead and give them ripple.

[E]

Down taxcannabis.org.org you can sign up to get active in California to support it or make a donation online. We need more money so we can run radio and television commercials to battle the lies that the opposition will be putting out.

[B]

Yeah, so the dea, obviously, it's like, like the military needs a war and the DEA needs a drug, obviously, or everyone has to pack up and go home.

[F]

87% of their budget is currently spent on cannabis crimes. So if we take cannabis out of their mix, what are they spending all this money on?

[B]

It's. It's insane.

[E]

All the other drugs combined don't add up to cannabis, you know, I mean, everything else, they make a big deal out of heroin and cannabis and you know, this, but actually all those other ones are like tiny fraction of 1% and then cannabis like 10%, you know.

[F]

Well, part of the issue is media too in their reporting, because if you actually look at the amount of deaths that are reported, maybe, you know, very few alcohol deaths are ever reported on the news, but one out of two heroin or ecstasy deaths are reported. So even though we only have 26, more than half of them are reported. So it seems like a bigger issue than it is now. I'll point out that no cannabis deaths are ever reported because cannabis deaths doesn't kill and cannabis is safer. So we have that opportunity now to shift.

[B]

Well, look, getting back to the Schedule 1, sort of the dangerous stuff as far as classification of marijuana goes. Yeah. When you say to somebody, this is a drug, all drugs are evil, all drugs destroy lives, you'll scramble your brains, you'll go on a trip, you'll never come back, you won't be able to hold down a job and blah, blah, blah. And then the kid does it. He realizes you're a liar and a hypocrite. Now you become the man and he doesn't trust you. And then, by the way, what other drugs are so called gonna kill me and are classified as schedule, whatever that are gonna take me down, that don't. And obviously, yes, you make it more dangerous for the drugs that actually do harm.

[F]

Well, the other issue is we're pushing our kids into a hard drug market. I mean, anyone that goes out to try to obtain cannabis on the street, right now, who IDs them to find out how old they are before they're offered crack? Right, the drug dealer decides how old you are.

[B]

One of the most spurious retarded arguments for pot was always that sort of stepping stone, gateway fucking retarded argument, like, listen, fucking tap Water, then's a gateway drug to everything because everyone, Everyone drank out of a sink before they end up doing crack cocaine. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ, people, of course you smoke pot before you smoke crack. Everyone I was in high school with tried a cigarette or tried some pot or tried some. Whatever that doesn't make. It makes fucking grilled cheese a gateway drug. I mean, of course, everything you do, you do it in order. You don't start off with elephant tranquilizer and then work your way down to like. Like the Tylenol pm. You start with the shit you can get your hands on, which is a spleef. And most of us stay with it or don't graduate into smoking crack cocaine. But if you ask anyone who smoked crack cocaine, did you ever smoke any pot? They go, yeah, When I was 13, my older brother gave me a hit off his joint. And then we somehow connect the retarded dots. Aha. That's what caused you to smoke. It's insane. And I really wish. Again, there's a lot of people to blame here, but the cowardly politicians who should be coming out and saying, everyone thinks that. Everyone who says, the problem, honestly, with pot legalization is. Or decriminalization or taxation is every time someone steps out, steps up and says, I think that we should be legalized, the guy goes, yeah, okay, hippie, how about you and your. How about you listen to the best of the Doors with your buddies in a VW van and strings your fucking love beads together? You know what we really need is some straight guy up there just going, look, I don't smoke weed. I'm uptight, I'm a Republican, but I'm also. I'm also mature, and I also can crunch some numbers. And we should be taxing this shit, not so I can get high so we can make some money.

[F]

I'd say that there were several scientists, even Jocelyn Elders, who, you know, decided for the country. She stood up and said, you know, this is ridiculous. And she got fired. I mean, anyone that does stand up, Professor Nutt over in Great Britain just stood up and said, this is ridiculous. Cannabis is safer. And he got fired.

[B]

Part of what got her screwed was talking about beating off.

[F]

See, I wasn't going to go there, but let's do. But that's safer, too. You'd rather have them at home beating off with a joint in your mouth than out raising a ruckus in the community.

[B]

Well, I know, I mean poor. It's so perfect, we hire a surgeon general and the second. But why? Well, they're the smartest doctor in the land. And then the second they say something we disagree with, we shit can them. That's awesome. It's like fucking hiring an accountant for your business because you're the best business in the world. Then he comes in and tells you you're down 10% last quarter and you fire him. Him. What? I want to be up 100%. Well, that's not going to change anything. You hired this person because they were theoretically the best and the brightest. And as soon as they said go ahead and smoke some weed and beat off, you fired them. Adam.

[F]

Even the DEA's own administrative judge, Francis Young, said that it should be decriminalized. But because they are not, they're not. They don't have to listen to their own judge. So at this point, it's just shut down along with all of the research, which is what everybody points to. We need more of. Except we can't.

[B]

Well, it is. I mean, stop me if I'm wrong. But also, forget about the recreational getting high part of it. There's a sort of industrial aspect of this whole thing. Right. I mean, hemp is a pretty amazing plant.

[E]

If you go to Whole Foods now, you'll see the hemp soy milk and the hemp seed candy bars and hemp seed cereal. There's a new cereal granola that just.

[F]

Came out and our local farmers aren't allowed to farm.

[E]

It's all being imported from Canada right now.

[B]

Right. So we're giving them our money.

[F]

The Tax Cannabis 2010 initiative actually includes hemp at the end. It would allow local cities and counties to regulate the production of hemp along with commercial cultivation.

[E]

Yeah, it could work. Good for the state, the redneck part of the valley part of the state where the farmers are. They could grow hemp and then the Bay Area and LA could have. Have the higher power.

[B]

Exactly.

[E]

Something for everybody.

[B]

Yeah. And as far as, I don't know, making clothes and making fabric and rope and all that kind of stuff. I mean, I'm not a hemp expert, but I understand it's probably a hardier plant than most. Probably takes less pesticides and grows faster with less water and things like that.

[C]

Tell you something really interesting about hemp.

[B]

They used it to remediate the environment after the Chernobyl. Oh, really?

[C]

So they put hemp on the site.

[B]

And the hemp actually, when it grows.

[C]

Takes the leeches out, the bad, nasty stuff.

[B]

So it's a Henry Ford. Henry Ford, you know, made a car out of it back in the day. Yeah.

[F]

The reason that hemp was outlawed was because it was in direct conflict with Dow Chemicals and all of these amazing. Like nylon, because we want to sell nylon, not natural fiber, plastic, all of these different things. It was commercial. Also timber. The man that controlled all the newspapers also controlled all the timber. And it's four to one. Timber to hemp. Four times as much timber to make the same amount of paper.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, four to one. Yeah. Well, I mean, these stories are as old as time. And you know, we live out here in Los Angeles. It's like, oh, what happened to the red line? All the trolleys that ran, well, Goodyear, bottom up, you know, General Motors actually, or General Motors and probably with a little help from entire company or two said, fuck that, you know, we don't need people getting around without a car. And thus we're going to sell more products.

[F]

So you would imagine pharmaceutical companies, alcohol companies. We don't need no stinking competition. Why do you want to legalize pot?

[B]

Well, again, it all just boils down to the idea of lobbyists and how these people should all be put in a giant dolphin tuna net filled with publicists and just. I don't want them dumped in the ocean, I want them dunked. Like, like dunked would be more painful. Dumped in the ocean is too fast.

[E]

But I thought you'd say the shark cage.

[B]

Yeah, that either way, I mean the whole idea that these, all these people have all these lobbyists and then they pay and then they go down, they talk to the politicians and they get.

[F]

This lobby in California is the prison guard lobby.

[B]

Right?

[F]

We don't have a cannabis lobby. We're working on that.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[F]

Help us out here, Adam. Call your friends.

[B]

I just don't. I know people are too busy and they don't have the time and they just, they're also, as I, as I said, there's a lot of people that just hear prison guard and they think, think that's good, good. And then they hear anti drug and they go, right, right. Then they go school teacher. And they go, yeah, yeah, but those lobbies and those organizations and those groups are fucking raping every taxpayer in this, this city, in this country. So it's ridiculous. But no one ever wants to steal school teachers, prison guards. You know, these people are heroes. Their unions aren't heroes and they're fucking. Most attack taxpayers and it costs, you know, 50 bucks to keep someone in prison over here for pot, for the love of Christ. And like it's 16 bucks to keep them in a Florida prison. So yeah, that's what your heroes are doing for you. And I hate to get into teachers, but they got a lot of the same shit going on that the prison guards are getting into. And we're finding out by the way, as a state, that this idea of everyone being unionized and everyone getting paid a shitload of money and all these, all these groups and all, and not taxing the weed and all. So it's all great except for meanwhile everyone is shooting their next feature film in New Mexico and we're fucking out of money. I mean, that's it. It's all great. Pie in the sky. Yeah, the prison guards should get paid 110 grand a year and school teachers should get all this and everyone should have these great unions and pot should be. The DA should make a job. Number one, we don't have any money now, so what the fuck? And what you guys are saying is what sensible people should be saying, which is the way you get your state, your country, your city financially back on track, is you just get a list of things you need and you know, it's sort of things you need and things you could do without. And this is one of the things that's costing us a bunch of money that we could be profiting off of. And as soon as we get a few more of those things taken care of, then the next thing you know, we're in the black again. I just don't understand why we're so money crazed yet. We have this blind spot when it comes to this topic.

[E]

A lot of history is all I can tell you from. I've been doing this quite a few years and, you know, that's kept me up a few nights, you know, thinking about how this could, you know, be the way it is. But it ties into racism like you talked about before, you know, it's a long history of a lot of hatred, you know, built up and the government supported, you know, it was part of the law, you know, segregation and things like that. You know, we look, we now we think of racism and we think of Kramer, you know, doing a bad stand up routine, you know, with the N word. But, you know, compared to the racism of 100 years ago, that's nothing. You know, there was serious lynching and stuff. That was all condoned. It was done by the government. You know, the sheriff and the deputies were in on it.

[B]

Well, who's really. I mean, I know the DEA is evil and the lobbyists are evil and the big pharmaceutical companies are evil and Seagrams are evil. Unless they Sign on as a sponsor, in which case they're delightful. But who is. The politicians are evil. But who would you put at the top of the list of just like if you're going to make an order of people that sort of blame for this, I don't think there's a person.

[C]

I think it's the system and the.

[B]

Way that it's the apathy of the people in the system, the judges, the police officers, they're used to just prosecuting.

[C]

People for cannabis and they're going to.

[B]

Keep putting them through. And once you get into the system.

[F]

This is what they've been taught. We are all the DARE generation, we've all been brought up doctors are taught that pills are good and natural plant, whole plant medicine is bad despite the fact we've been using it for 10,000 years. It's just the mental shift in thinking in the western culture and no one person is responsible but we're all caught in the machinery and current policy has failed and that's why we're putting this on the ballot, to change the current policy, to take a new approach and to shift these monies from the black market into these important public safety. It's not that cops are bad, it's that cops focus is misdirected. We need them to focus on public safety, on crimes against others, on violent crime rather than crimes of possession. And the only difference between current politicians and half the folks in jail are they didn't get caught. Because right now the most dangerous thing about cannabis is getting caught with it, right?

[B]

Well as I've said, and I make any friends in the law enforcement community when I've said this, but can't you fucks just do what we want you to do? All the chicken shit tickets and all the guys with the dime bags and all that shit, who gives a fuck? Just fucking work on violent crime and rape and shit, would ya?

[E]

It's like the guard dog has got off the leash and nobody wants to go put it back on because he's a little, you know, he bites, right?

[B]

He's the guard dog, you know, like you go get him back on the lease. I know, but you know, the thing is, I've basically described it is in these terms the cops there are security. No less or no more than J. Lo has her security detachment or Mariah Carey or whoever. You pick the celebrity Madonna has a couple of big dudes who she travels with. You know, when you get to a certain level that's your security, you pay them and guess what they do what the Fuck you tell them to do? They don't go do their own shit. They just do what you tell them to do because that's your security. I feel the same way about the police in this country. We pay your ass. How about you do what the fuck we tell you to do? That's it.

[F]

They're doing what the fuck.

[B]

You're in our posse. You're not in your own fucking posse. You're protecting us.

[A]

Right?

[E]

It's like if you hired security guards for a party and then they started deciding who was on the guest list and who was coming in, not you. You know, they started letting their friends in.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Kicking yours out.

[B]

Beating the shit out of one of your black buddies in the corner. Telling people to get out of the car and tearing shit out of the car. Writing your buddy a jaywalking ticket for crossing the street after he parked his car. Yeah, it's our party. We're paying you to protect us at our party. Now how about you fucking do what we tell you to do?

[F]

So who tells them what to do?

[B]

Well, that's.

[F]

So we got to rock the boat.

[B]

Yeah. Because the voters and the politicians and, you know, in this whole. And this whole. We're just. We're just going into the. We're going into garbage. We're just killing. We're just fall. We're just falling apart. I heard via Ritardo on the. That's our mayor out here on. I get to call him whatever I want because he doesn't. He doesn't. His name isn't Villaragosa. His name is Tony Villar, but he went with Villaragosa. Gee, wonder why. So he get more of the black vote. Gee, wonder why. He's why. Fucking guy failed the bar three times. So he's. Or four times. Three or four times. So he's essentially. Essentially retired. Political system is set up for dumb people. Yes.

[C]

Smart people don't.

[B]

I've met viragosis at completely fucking empty vessels. It's like, you know, when the water, when the sparklets machine runs out of water, there's just that fucking empty bottle sitting up there. That's what he is. That's what he's like talking to. So he's semi retarded and we're trying to get a new police chief. And, you know, he wouldn't talk about violent crime and he wouldn't talk about law and order or tough on crime or anything like that. He'd just kept saying fair minded and recognized civil liberties. And didn't, you know, he's just basically Pandering to his stupid constituency. But how about we get a fucking police chief in this city that just stops with the chicken shit, jaywalking tickets, stops with the bullshit. No front license plate tickets, stops with the chicken shit, cannabis crime stuff and just focuses on violent crime. Can we do that? We really.

[C]

The city will have to shut down.

[B]

Because they have those squads that they.

[C]

Send out to go get tickets.

[B]

I know, we'll just fucking. We'll just be out of money. Can we toss that retard Villara Gozi? He failed the bar four times. How dumb Again? I've said many times I'd fail the bar four times. Except for I'd be smart enough to fail it two times and then know I was stupid and quit taking the fucking bar. He's so dumb he doesn't even know he's dumb four fucking times. Fucking idiot. Tony Valar, everybody. So I don't know. And by the way, I'll probably get my wish. You probably won't be mayor in a few years. He'll be governor and then we'll really be in a fucking garbage can. But either way, toss out the website one more time. And listen, all you assholes who don't smoke pot, let's not be apathetic. This is a cause and it's important cause and it has effects on you. Listen, if you don't smoke pot, good, you won't get the sinner's tax and you'll have yourself a new bridge or a new light rail system or a new school. Because Donnie's paying the sinner's tax, you're buying the weed. If I know the government, they'll kick it down to us. Yeah, I'm sure that's the way it'll work. But either way, let the pot smokers pay for it. Why give it to the Mexican drug cartels?

[E]

Thank you.

[B]

Because that's where the money's going, everyone. I don't know, I heard some crazy statistic like 90% of the whatever drugs that are in this country, right? To the Mexican drug cartels who are shooting cops. Cops. And shooting innocent people. Beheading people. Beheading people. And really, do you really want those people to have money? And by the way, let me tell you something about the Mexicans and their drug cartels. As soon as they stop making money selling drugs, they're out of business because they ain't exactly smart entrepreneurs are going to end up starting a dot com company or coming up with a silicone chip for computers. They're gone. They'll go away. It's only they'll be basically riding mules in a circle till they get too drunk and sunstroke and fall off and die. So we can cut that snake's head off right now in a big way, because I'm sure a ton of the shit's coming from Mexico by just taxing it and legalizing it. All right, website, one more time, tax cannabis.

[E]

That's taxcannabis.org and you can go there and get more information on our initiative that we're getting signatures. We just went past the halfway mark. We got over 350,000 out of the 650,000 signatures we need to get it on the November 2010 ballot. And so at the website there, you can sign up to get involved, to do house parties, to get signatures, or to make a donation to help us run more advertisements on radio and television.

[B]

I will be signing the petition in moments, soon as we sign off. So until next time, this is Admiral Crawler for Dale, Alex and Richard saying mahalo.

[A]

All right, that's Adam Crawler show 195. That does it for Ace Crawl Classics. Make sure to tune in tomorrow for an all new installment. Until then, mahalo and get it on.

[B]

Sam.

[C]

You're welcome.