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- [00:00]
Kristin
Foreign.
- [00:13]
Interviewer
Welcome to Ad Exchanger Talks, the podcast devoted to examining the issues and trends in advertising and marketing technology that matter most to you.
- [00:25]
Kristin
This podcast is brought to you by adstrated. Adstra's leading identity resolution network enables precise targeting, scalable activation, and richer customer understanding. Whether you're looking for person based accuracy or massive scale, only adstra has the transparency to give you both. Learn more@adstradata.com that's a-t r a data.com.
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Interviewer
Hey Kristin, welcome to the podcast.
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Kristin
Thanks so much for having me.
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Interviewer
Well, what. What's one thing about you that not a lot of other people already know about you?
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Kristin
I feel like there's probably quite a few things, one which is a memory. When I was probably in about sixth grade, I was always very active, very sporty, and somehow I was riding my bike just down the street from our house and I managed to fall off of the bike and I broke my left elbow and my right wrist at the exact same time. So I went to the hospital. They put the left arm in a sling. I put a. They put a bright pink cast on my right arm and I was pretty immobile. So I remember for at least two weeks my mom had to write out my homework. I'm sure there was some degree of cursive happening or whatnot back then, but yeah, I broke both arms at the same time. And that. That was a wild one. So not a lot of people know that.
- [02:14]
Interviewer
Oh my goodness. I've never broken a bone. But the day after I graduated eighth grade, my friend and I, we decided we want to bike. We wanted to bike over to another friend's house to use her pool. And I used the other friend's little brother's bike, which was super tiny. He was like 5 years old. And I wasn't riding it properly. I took a turn really badly and I hit a fire hydrant, flew off and I smashed my chin. Like it was really gross and bloody and like they had to take little bits of gravel out of my chin. I'm very lucky I don't have a huge scar. But a few weeks later I had to go to summer camp and I had a huge scab on my chin and it looked like a goatee.
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Kristin
Oh my gosh. That is a. That's a good one. And a horrible yes at the same time. Oh my gosh. Yeah, those bikes are dangerous, you know, I mean, it.
- [03:07]
Interviewer
I don't know, it built my character, I guess, because everyone that I met in summer camp, the first thing I had to explain was why My face was like that. So it helped me get out of.
- [03:18]
Kristin
My shell a little bit because I.
- [03:19]
Interviewer
Used to be quite shy. Well, now that we've compared our scars, I want to talk a little bit about all the interesting and, like, very cool steps and stops that you have in your cv. I'm not going to go back and list them all, but you spent a few years in the trenches of agency land. There was Tribal DDB and RGA were the senior director of marketing at Ralph Lauren for a bit. Or Ralph Lauren, I guess. Right. Do people ever pronounce it Ralph Lauren? Ralph Lauren. You were the SVP of commerce and digital media at Oscar de la Renta beauty company. Cody, you were at American Eagle for three years. A bunch of different roles. Then you were the CMO of pacsun, the CMO of wellness company homedics. And now you're the CMO of True Religion. And for anyone who's watching on the video, they can see some true religion apparel hanging up behind Kristen. Very cool stuff.
- [04:21]
Kristin
Exactly.
- [04:22]
Interviewer
But you're not just the cmo. You were promoted in May to CMO and head of digital growth for E Commerce. So, I mean, there's a heck of a lot to unpack there. But one question that pops to mind is about, like, CMO tenures, which have a tendency to be a little bit short. So how do you think about, like, creating a lasting impact in a role that often turns over so quickly and you're brought in and you need to prove results and then maybe the CRO has certain thoughts and then it all comes to a head. So, yeah, just talk to me a little bit about CMO tenures.
- [05:08]
Kristin
You know, it's. It's a really interesting question, and I think I've been fortunate to find a home here with True Religion, where I, you know, I absolutely love our CEO. He's an incredible visionary and a great operator. And, you know, he's also a former New Yorker. I lived in New York for 15 years, and so his motto is today, not tomorrow. He moves very, very fast. He expects us to do the same. And that's the way that I operate. So when I think about your question, I guess in the broader context, like I said, I'm fortunate to find a place where I think my style and skill set works well for the brand and helping drive the business. I've been, I guess one wasn't official, but I've been promoted here twice. I came in as cmo. I was responsible for all of the brand marketing. Then about a year in, I was given Performance marketing or growth marketing and retention. And then as you mentioned in May was officially promoted to now own the P and L of the E commerce business, which is one of our fastest growing channels as we hit, you know, about 500 million in sales. And we're on a quick path while being the most profitable profitable we've ever been. A quick path to a billion. So it's just a long way to say I think I've found a place where, you know, I like moving fast, I like trying things. I love the brand piece but I really enjoying the ecom piece as well. I'm a kind of digital marketer by trade and so to bring both of these together has been incredible. So I think more broadly answering your question, you have to find a place well where a. You need to understand really what are the objectives and what does success look like as a cmo I could tell you that even from day one, let alone now, almost three years in, it has been drive growth, growth so and drive growth quickly. So that being made very clear meant that I could organize my team in the right fashion to drive growth. I could pull out a playbook that I've used at other retail companies that I know works and works quickly and then it's rinse and repeat while figuring out how do you stay relevant. For us, what we see move moves the needle is partnerships with the right talent and those are both big campaigns and then the always on team Tru influencer program collabs like we had Von Dutch in October, November of last year. So moving quickly while keeping the brand very highly relevant while you're growing and making sure that you have the right tools out in market to help you do that. So again, I would say more broadly if you're a CMO and you're trying to increase your tenure beyond what the average is, it's make sure you understand and you're very clear what is my remit and then organize yourself and your team in a way that will help you and the team succeed against, you know, that or those business objectives.
- [08:37]
Interviewer
Well, your remit is, it's really interesting because it's, it's a lot of different things and you need to prove results and it comes right out in the wash to make a little apparel joke, a little jeans reference. But you're the top marketer at a brand but you're also in charge of and responsible for things like site conversions, I imagine. Right. And sales. And of course all marketers need to speak to, you know, driving sales. But it's your, I mean it is your specific to do. And that seems like it would be both an opportunity but also a pretty big challenge. Because I'm not saying people hide behind, you know, brand metrics, but you kind of can a little bit. You can't hide behind, you know, a P and L if it doesn't show that you've driven sales.
- [09:29]
Kristin
Correct. And you know, at some, I think it just depends different companies the way the org is structured. So some keep it separate. We've decided to bring it together. And what I've loved about that since May of last year is that I know if something is working. I know if something isn't working. Going back to the point of today, not tomorrow, which is our CEOs mantra, I can change something on a dime if I need to because I'm seeing the hourly traffic and sales come in for the website. And, you know, knowledge is power. So I would rather have that and be able to take in real time reads to be able to pivot if we need to. And so that actually has been a gift for sure.
- [10:23]
Interviewer
When you joined True religion, it was 2023, I believe you were the first ever CMO that they had, which struck me because True Religion isn't a new brand. You've been around since the early 2000s. So why did they decide it was time to have someone in the chief marketer role? And then of course, they. They added head of Digital growth for E Commerce to the title. But why. Why bring on a CMO at sort of like the late date right of. Of 2023?
- [10:53]
Kristin
Yeah, there were a lot of moves happening across the board with the business. I'll explain in a moment before, you know, before Michael reached out to see if I was interested. So, number one, Michael, our CEO, came back to the business in 2019. He was here during its former. The brand's former heyday. And when he came back, he noticed a couple different things. Number one, the product for in particular denim was still really expensive, $400 or more. He said, I don't care how much money you have, there's not going to be that many people from a total addressable market perspective, who is going to pay $400 for jeans. So number one was trying to figure out who is our customer right now, what is the right price point. At the same time, he observed that the. The old leadership team had pulled a lot of the logos off of the product. So you're potentially paying $400 for jeans that don't have a horseshoe on them. And as you see behind me, I mean, not only do we have true religion, you know, across the back, there's also the horseshoes, there's the Buddha logo. You see the logo even on the tees. There is power and there is brand equity in both the horseshoe and in the Buddha. So that change was. Was kind of made very quickly to get the product back to where it was seen as aspirational and recognizable. You know, it's true religion now. If you're. If you see someone and they're walking a whole city block away, you know, it's true religion. And that's really exciting as a marketer to have that brand recognition through the product. The next thing that he looked at was he said, how did the women's business decline so much since he had been here the last time? So women's, when he came back in 2019, was 40% of total sales. Men's was 60. And he said, we have to get that closer to 50, 50, if not 60% women's, 40% men's. Why? Because we know that women make the majority of purchasing decisions in the house. Women are loyal to brands. Women are looking for new fashion trends, and they're willing to buy. So for all the reasons he said, you know, we really need to get this back on par, or again, 60. Women's, 40, men's. As he was doing all of that, he was making other leadership changes. And so the way that I've always thought about it, as it's been described to me with regard to the CMO role, is a new foundation had to be laid before then. You brought somebody in to unleash the marketing. And so when I joined in July, it'll be three years this summer. I did a small fall campaign, and I was also working on a very big holiday campaign right out of the gate. That holiday campaign starred Quavo, the rapper India Love, who is a fashionista and influencer. We had an amazing concept. We had great talent, and I could see when that campaign launched what he meant about waiting to lay relay a foundation for the future before we unleash this. Because when that campaign launched, traffic to the website was up 50 to 60%. Sales were up, you know, 20 to 30% versus prior year. So it really did help the business just take off like that. And then, you know, our objective ever since then within the marketing department has been to continue that momentum. So that's a long answer, but it felt like the brand was ready in that moment, and it proved to be true.
- [15:02]
Interviewer
Let's talk a little bit about the measurement piece and how the media side fits into the site experience. Like basically how you connect what you're doing in paid social or performance channels to things like on site conversion rates and how that all ladders up to specific growth targets for E commerce. And of course, above it, you have the cool branding stuff that's keeping you top of mind and kind of feeding the funnel. But then you have to tie it all together.
- [15:33]
Kristin
That's right. So we have a tiered system, especially in paid social. There is the upper funnel brand awareness ads, and that might be Megan Thee stallion holiday ad or an Anita Spring ad, for example. And. And then there are middle funnel ads and that could star. And in one of our influencer partners, that could be a denim story, that could be an espresso chocolate brown story. And then as you go to the lower funnel, that might be specific product ads. So you're retargeting based on, of course, your browsing behavior. It could be a product ad based on what you've viewed either from us or to someone else. It might be an ad that says, hey, this product that you liked before is back in stock, for example. So we think about, you know, where you are in your purchase cycle relative to the kinds of creative that you're going to be targeted. And then to your point, we are managing growth well, traffic targets and ROAS targets alongside, you know, what are they doing on the site? Are they only buying? Are they signing up for loyalty? How do we make sure that we get the most out of every single visit? And then regarding, I guess, a new, more sophisticated layer of measurement, we've been working with an mmm vendor in 2025 to get that stood up so that we can understand from an incrementality perspective, if we were to move the shells around and spend differently, not more, but differently in paid media, where would we see greater returns? So those models have just come back. We are starting to test that now and again. What's fascinating is you can make a strategic change in the media and then look and see how it affects the site the same day. Obviously you need to give it time to kind of marinate and. But being so close to all of this data is just really a gift. In addition to all of the great and sort of cool brand stuff that we're doing, that that brings the heat, because you can measure exactly what that heat does to lift the business.
- [18:02]
Interviewer
So are you team MMM as opposed to, I don't know, team mta?
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Kristin
You know what's funny? I think it's too soon to tell. You know, we've gotten feedback that we could have driven X percent more in sales with again, no additional, no additional spend by. By moving the spend around. And so we'll see. We're just starting to test that now. I think we are definitely evolving beyond Last click. Exactly. It's time. And what the MMM has also helped us do is quantify the lifts in store traffic and sales and that we were a little bit blind in the past. So you'll have to ask me in six months how I feel about the mmm. We'll see if it works.
- [19:00]
Interviewer
I would love to ask you in six months. And I'm so glad you brought up the store experience or you mentioned stores because you really can't forget about the in store experience. And True Religion operates. I believe it's around 50. Correct me if I'm wrong. Of your own research. Retail stores around the US and you're.
- [19:18]
Kristin
Also in, let's just 60 now.
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Interviewer
Believe it or not, I'm 60. Okay, so 60 tons of mall locations too. You have a presence there in outlet centers. So there's a real like brick and mortar presence and also a brick and mortar heritage. So I'm just wondering how physical stores fit into the digital growth strategy today. Like, and as retail evolves, how you're thinking about connecting in store experiences with the whole like digital ecosystem of stuff you're doing. There's loyalty data, there's app engagement, there are personalized offers. But in a way, it's becoming a kind of continuum.
- [19:57]
Kristin
That's exactly right. I mean, listen, we would love if our consumers shopped us everywhere, if they discovered us in a mall. And then to your point, the connection to digital and to the brand go forward is you walk into one of our stores, you sign up for loyalty with a QR code or you sign up for our SMS program or our email program. And then we are messaging you in a personalized way. You bought this in our store. Here are things that could help complete the look, for example, so that it feels personalized. And then you buy online and then you go back to the store and then you buy online. So, you know, our goal is really to create that Omni environment for the consumer. If they prefer to shop online, great. If they prefer to go into store, awesome. And then, you know, but really the purpose of the retention marketing team is how do you drive the overall frequency, recency, ltv, et cetera. And to the point about the stores only, I think about a year ago, it was in October. So just over a year ago, we relaunched the loyalty program. We created the connection to our ERP systems in the store. So now we have a single view of the customer, which is awesome. And I think the opportunity for us is to continue to enroll more people into all of our programs. We have almost 10 million identifiable customers between loyalty and email and SMS. So get more people into those systems and then with regard to loyalty, whether it's online or in store, increase the attachment rate. And we're looking at different ways to kind of sweeten the value proposition so that you want to do that, you want to attach your loyalty number with that purchase because of what you'll get in return. That's far beyond discounts, but really exclusive access to things that only true religion can power for you. So we're working on that now.
- [22:09]
Interviewer
The loyalty investment is really fascinating because you guys, like you just mentioned, really revamped the whole program. I want to talk about that in more detail after the break. But before we hit the break, one other measurement question that I wanted to ask you which is how you measure the impact of things like your creator program team. True. All of your influencer marketing alongside like organic posts like when Alex Earle or Kylie Jenner or whoever posts about you, which they've both done. And then you have to again like connect it all back to performance KPIs, like that's your job. Because you're kind of soup to nuts here.
- [22:48]
Kristin
That's right, that. And that's a great way of putting it by the way, the soup to nuts comment. You know, when you look at partners that we engage on a paid basis, you see depending on the channel, you know, double and triple digit traffic increases to the site, you see double digit increases to sales when we pick, you know, the right partners that really, really perform. And then when you look at some of the more organic posts like Alex or Kylie, what we saw there increase in traffic for sure to the site, what we saw with both of them was an increase in women's denim sales on those days and about the day or two after. But it wasn't enough to sustain at the level that it hit the day that they posted. And again that's why even when you think about our broader marketing strategy outside of just growth and paid social media, it's how do you make sure that you keep having these very brand right relevant to the consumer spikes so that if you're trying to acquire millions of new consumers, if this spike didn't attract, you know, absolutely everyone as it wouldn't because we don't assume that there's a one size fits all approach, you have the next one ready to go. And that's a combination of things that are strategic moments in culture where we're tapping into what's happening in music and to some degree in sports, that might be some collaborations that could be new products. So there's always just a very multifaceted and very, very active marketing calendar to help us achieve, you know, all of these different metrics versus we're gonna, you know, bet the farm on, on this one. So that that's how we use a little bit of both.
- [25:01]
Interviewer
It's always nice when someone famous tweets something or I guess no one tweets anything anymore when they post something, but you can't plan on that necessarily, but you do have to be able to capitalize on it. So we're gonna take a quick break and when we're back, we're gonna talk a lot more about the loyalty program. We're obviously gonna talk about AI because I think I'm required to do so. And, and yeah, lots of other good stuff. So stick with us.
- [25:42]
Kristin
Hello, I'm Sarah Sluice, editorial director of Ad Exchanger and I have with me here Rick Irwin, CEO of adstra. Hi Rick.
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Rick Irwin
Hi, Sarah. Great to see you.
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Kristin
So in a market dominated by very large identity providers, how do you see adstra disrupting this space?
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Rick Irwin
Well, really simply, we set out and every day we do the things that the bigger players in the industry either cannot do or will not do. And when I say cannot do, it's because we have technology that we architected from day one that allows brands and their partners to do things that they can't do with the larger partners, like manage all of their identity resolution in their cloud environment rather than in the provider's environment. And then we do things that larger players perhaps can do but won't do because it might threaten their business model that they've very successfully built up over time. A good example of that is Challenger brands often need the ability to scale their business using identity solutions. And volume based pricing methods like CPM really don't allow for scale because they tend to charge commensurate prices as the client grows. And so we work with clients oftentimes to provide them subscription based pricing that's flattened level and they can plan around that for a year or 18 months or two years at a time. Those are two examples of how we disrupt.
- [27:15]
Kristin
So more flexibility in terms of pricing and in how you use the identity product.
- [27:21]
Rick Irwin
Exactly.
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Kristin
Let's talk a bit about transparency and drill into that. Ad Exchanger listeners tend to love transparency. And where do you stand on that issue?
- [27:32]
Rick Irwin
Well, we think the two values that matter most in identity are transparency and control. One goes with the other in both directions. Transparency allows the brand to actually see how identity resolution is being performed because it can be adjusted to be more precise or less precise, depending on the appropriate customer use case. And so we give our clients the ability to see how matches are made, and then control rides along with it. They can change the level of precision for the use case that they are pursuing that particular day. So if they're pursuing an awareness campaign, they might actually want a little bit less precise identity resolution because they want to cast a wide net and reach a lot of customers. And in an application where they're offering best customers a special promotion, they would be more interested in having a very, very precise match so that they don't offer a best customer promotion to someone who perhaps accidentally isn't the best customer. So transparency and control are both extremely important.
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Kristin
Okay. The opposite of a black box is what you get with Adstra.
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Rick Irwin
That's right.
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Kristin
Let's talk about identity. It's such a broad term in the industry now. It can mean a lot of different things. How do you think people should be thinking about identity? And how is identity sometimes misunderstood?
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Rick Irwin
Well, the biggest thing I would, if I could wave a magic wand, I would love for people to understand the real and important difference between identity graphs and identity resolution platforms. Astra is an identity resolution platform. And every identity resolution platform produces a graph which is a snapshot. I use an example, I use a metaphor of a movie. What's your favorite movie? Can I ask you your favorite movie, Sarah?
- [29:24]
Kristin
Right now I'm feeling Melanie Griffith in Working Girl.
- [29:27]
Rick Irwin
Okay, Working Girl. So imagine if you were, if you were a production assistant or a camera person on the making of that movie when that movie was being shot, and you made a scrapbook of everything that happened during the movie shoot, you'd have this big scrapbook, and page by page, it would sort of tell a story, but it's not the same as watching the movie. And that's the difference between an identity graph, which is like a scrapbook, it's just a point in time, and an identity resolution platform, which is actually like a motion picture in that it is running matches perpetually all the time, updating to make sure that the association of one form of identity to another is accurate. And that requires software, hence why it's a platform. And a graph can just be a bucket of data. But an identity resolution platform is actually a working breathing piece of machinery, if you will, that performs the work of identity 24 7.
- [30:27]
Kristin
I love that distinction of identity resolution and identity graph. It feels like an Ad Explainer article. I'll file that away. Thank you, Rick, for educating us on identity and for supporting our podcast.
- [30:42]
Rick Irwin
Great to be with you, Sarah.
- [30:58]
Interviewer
All right, we're back and I have a question that I really want to ask you because you used to be a marketer at American Eagle and I'm sure there's literally nothing you can say about this, but I'm going to ask regardless. What did you think of the Sydney Sweeney great jeans campaign?
- [31:17]
Kristin
You know, I love American Eagle and I think if I take a step back, it's really exciting to see denim at the center of culture with these so called denim wars. And you have a lot of different brands out there trying really different things with regard to these denim campaigns. And again, as somebody that's been in fashion at a lot of denim brands, I love that there's the conversation there. I think what's interesting for us is we, you know, our name is True Legion Brand Jeans. We are known for denim. Our denim is well crafted and incredible. But the, the funny thing, I've been asked a lot about Denim wars, you know, for True Religion. And the funny thing is that 60% of our sales come from non denim categories. So yes, we sell denim, we sell a lot of denim. But again, we have a pretty diversified product portfolio that even includes fragrance and kids and, believe it or not, pets. So I think of us more as a lifestyle brand for the urban casual consumer than I do a denim brand like some of our competitors.
- [32:38]
Interviewer
That didn't answer the question, but that's okay because I know it was an awkward one, but I'm going to change gears and talk a little bit about about vibes because you guys are kind of riding high on like a Y2K nostalgia resurgence. Although, like True Religion is, you know, cool for 2025. There's also this kind of interesting like early 2000s love that's happening now. It's also happening with Pacsun, where you used to work and Gen Z is kind of like redefining what's cool. In some cases they're like mining the past and bringing it back from your marketing seat. Like, how do you think about like the cyclical nature of fashion trends and like staying culturally like fluent when you have trends that can start and get a lot of momentum on say, TikTok, but then you might have some weird unanticipated thing that happens or they just Quickly, you know, it just as quickly goes away and you just have to ride these waves.
- [33:50]
Kristin
Yeah, great question. I think nostalgia is powerful when it's a foundation, not the full strategy. So we're not simply replaying Y2K, we're evolving it and making it feel current through talent, styling, storytelling, cultural fluency really associated with this brand as a daily practice. And our approach is to stay close to the community, shaping culture rather than, you know, only chasing trends after they peak. So when I think about this Y2K trend, it reminds me of the Von Dutch collaboration. So, you know, we partnered with them to develop co branded product. Our incredible product designers took the lead and it was, I think, you know, and I might be biased, but it really encapsulated what is so incredible about both of those brands. But there was a fresh take on it. There was, from a product perspective, fresh silhouettes. And then when you think about, you know, the cast, the cast for the campaign was all Love island folks. And we knew that there was a lot of love among our customers for Shelley from Love island because we had worked with her for, you know, about two months prior, she did a meet and greet in one of our new physical store openings. And there was a line of a thousand people. I was there, a thousand people waiting to meet her. And then when they did, they were taking out their phones, they were FaceTiming their friends. I mean, the love was just out of this world. And when I saw that, I thought we should double down on that for Trilogen and Von Dutch. And so we did. The campaign concept was fun and I think a fresh take on Y2K, which is this red carpet paparazzi storyline. And it worked. You know, when we looked at the results, they're very similar to some of these other big pushes. Double digit traffic increases. Within five days, nearly 60% of the women's side of the collection was completely sold out. So much so that we reordered it. I mean, it was a, it was a tremendous success. So again, it's not just about riding that trend. It's about how do you take it and make it feel fresh for today as well as breakthrough to bring in new consumers.
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Interviewer
Evolution, for sure. But I have to say I just, I love the Y2K early 2000, late 90s resurgence because that's when I was like, you know, like late high school and in college. So it's, it was a great time for me personally.
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Kristin
You know, it's funny, I still listen to like, you know, playlists from that era because I think the music. I mean I love music now too, but I think the music is still so good. And to your point, you have all these great memories, whether it's brands you, you know, you knew back then, plus the infusion of music from back then. So I, I agree with you. It was a great time.
- [37:13]
Interviewer
And last year because we teased a little bit about the loyalty program before the break, but last year it was ahead of Black Friday, so great timing. True Religion did this major reboot of its loyalty program and you alluded to this but added omnichannel aspects. There was the ability to like earn points for things other than transactions. So like social shares and reviews and referrals in store POS integration and new tiers, new perks, just like a full on reimagining. So I mean of course it's because you want to generate more loyalty. But go a little deeper for me on this question of like what was the strategy for doing all of that and what have you seen so far in terms of an increase in lifetime value and getting people more engaged with what you're doing?
- [38:12]
Kristin
So you hit the nail on the head. We redesigned the loyalty program to reflect how customers engage with brands today. It's not only about points, it's about access, relevance and a sense of belonging. And we've already, you know, made some good strides into those latter areas. So for example, if you are a loyalty member, then you would be able to shop our drops, limited edition drops or collaborations first. We've also had loyalty gated sweeps or giveaways that offer tickets to some of the events for the different programming we have with music partners and sports partners. And you know, I think it signals that this lifetime value is not only tied to repeat purchase frequency, but also to your engagement with the brand, the referring a friend, the product, the ratings and reviews, for example. And what we're seeing is that the average order value is up depending on the month. In some cases 20% for loyalty members versus non loyalty. Again, as we think about go forward it's how do we make the value proposition even clearer and more compelling so that we can continue to attract millions of more people into the loyalty program. And then number two, making sure that that value prop is always top of mind for you once you're enrolled into the program so that you are always attaching your loyalty number to a purchase, whether that's online or in store. Because the more we know about you, the more we can personalize the experience. Not only the experience you have with the brand, but also product recommendations, things that you might want that have sold out and now are restocked, for example. So personalization will be key. And I know you wanted to talk about AI as well and I think that's where we are diving into personalization, especially on the site and then through advertising with partners, algorithms and their AI technologies in order to drive performance.
- [40:27]
Interviewer
Well, loyalty programs are great sources of first party data. So you're collecting it from email, sms, social followership, engagement with the app, transactions of course as well. And it all powers media and personalization. But then like you just said, when you can bring AI into the mix, it really starts to up the ante. So yeah, talk to me a little bit about how you're actually using AI today to help with personalization, but also maybe forecasting, creative optimization, gathering insights. There are lots of really cool things that brands can do. Uh, some of it is talk and I think some of it is getting pretty real. There's just a lot of hoo ha out there. I just like the word hoo ha. I just wanted to say hoo ha. So what are you doing that's, you know, real right now in your, in your day to day as a marketer with AI?
- [41:23]
Kristin
Yeah, there are so many different ways so I'm going to try to bucket it into categories so it's easily understandable. I think first on the website we're using AI, we have a AI powered chatbot that kind of kicks in before you are siphoned over to customer service if, if you need that. And we are, we make it very clear that it's an AI powered chatbot. There are different tools on the site. Like you've put a pair of denim, you know, jeans in the bag. You might get something served up about a matching top or matching accessory that's powered by AI. So that's the site. Then when you think about the growth team, we are leaning into AI optimization with partners like Meta and Google around creative testing and versioning, going after different audiences, both look alike and net new. And so through our partners, we're using a lot of their AI tools. When you think about our creative team right now we are creating concepts ourselves. Occasionally we'll use an outside party to help us with the big idea. And we are, we are shooting models and talent all sort of organically. None of that is done with AI. Sometimes though, in order to sell the idea into me so that I understand it, the creative team will use AI to assist in imagery that is used again only internally so that they can get the idea across before we go and Shoot it. There are other tools that we're exploring within the creative realm about how to develop versioning where backgrounds might, you know, the color of the background might be different depending on the need or the sizing or the shape, horizontal versus vertical might be able to transform through the use of AI. And then on the CRM side there is AI happening with SMS copy optimization to optimize for clicks. For example, I know the team has been trying the same in the email channel with regard to subject lines or pre header text. How do we optimize for opens and for clicks? So those are some very specific examples. I think if I take a step back, for us, the headline with AI is we use it to drive performance, personalization and ultimately efficiency and effectiveness. And we will continue to explore new tools that help us achieve those things within the AI realm.
- [44:36]
Interviewer
So new tools that is. Thank you. Such an excellent segue to this question I really want to ask you because I love asking marketers this question when I have the opportunity because I'm assuming that you're constantly barraged by tech vendors and potential partners who all want to work with you. How do you evaluate potential partners or new tools, particularly like ad tech vendors? And now of course AI startups I'm sure are knocking on your door. They're probably just hitting you up on LinkedIn and following you around at conferences. So what do you look for in a partner? What kind of makes you cringe and what's the sales pitch that just like doesn't work? Like, don't do this guys. If you want to get in front of Kristen, don't do this.
- [45:23]
Kristin
That's such a good question. I would say truly I value partners who are honest, data driven and focused on outcomes. I appreciate it when a possible partner comes in with curiosity and and a clear hypothesis around how can I help you solve this business problem? And it's funny because none of this stuff is rocket science. Like at the end of the day, I don't care what brand you are, you're trying to drive sales in the most profitable way possible. And then in marketing you are trying to acquire as many new consumers at the right price and enroll them into retention programs. Like it's all real basic. So I think when I'm looking at partners, you could pick any one of those things that I just mentioned and you could say, here are the three ways we can help you with more efficient new customer acquisition. Here are more. Here are three ways we could help you with deeper personalization, you know, across CRM that will, you know, Lift sales in those channels by X percent. And again, you could really do that with, with almost any brand. Right. And any cmo. But I think if you come with this is the problem that I can help you solve, then it just. It, it. It's less time. I appreciate that they understand the business or the category. And again, this stuff isn't rocket science. So we're all kind of trying to solve the same things. But again, they've created a shortcut to help me understand how is it that they think about their tool relative to what I'm trying to solve and then the numbers behind it. How long will it take? When will I see the return? Is there any testing that has to happen? What's the lift from a technology perspective? So I think making it easy for us is just like heavenly. That's, that's definitely what I look for.
- [47:39]
Interviewer
Make it easy and cut the bs. If I had to summarize.
- [47:43]
Kristin
Thank you. Thank you. There's the elevator fix. Right? Right. Well said.
- [47:49]
Interviewer
Penultimate question. What about agencies? How do you decide what to keep in house and what to hand over to an agency partner?
- [48:01]
Kristin
It's also a great question, especially as somebody that has sat on both sides of the fence. We keep strategy, customer insight, and brand storytelling pretty close. I think it's difficult, for whatever reason, for a lot of people, not consumers, but a lot of people sort of on the outside to understand this brand, which is why we keep all of that internally. We rely on partners where specialization, scale or speed is required, such as technical execution, channel specific expertise. I think for us, the key is having a clear operating model so that everything feels integrated no matter where it's coming from.
- [48:52]
Interviewer
So, last question. And it kind of ties back to the, I guess the no, no BS point. What is one marketing buzzword that you wish you just never had to hear again? You could just want to kill it with fire, basically. And why does it irritate you so much?
- [49:14]
Kristin
I think I would have had a different answer a couple of years ago. And this is a brand that people love in a way that I have never, ever seen. And I know we're going to run out of time, but real quick example, I told you about the Quavo campaign for Holiday a couple years ago. You know, we're on, we're on set and he rolls up his sleeve as we're talking, and thankfully a videographer was capturing all of this. And he shows me a True Religion tattoo. And I'm like, what the hell is that? And he said, I love True Religion. And I said, when did you get the tattoo? And he's like, I got it when I was a teenager. My friends and I stole a tattoo gun. And I love the brand so much that, yeah, I got a tattoo. I got a tattoo. And he's like, and this is so cool because it's a full circle moment that I'm in this campaign. And that's what I mean about the brand. Love. So after I've experienced that now for almost three years here, the marketing buzzword that I wish I would never have to hear again is authentic.
- [50:29]
Interviewer
I knew you were gonna say that when you started your story. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, same.
- [50:36]
Kristin
Not because it's not important. Of course it is. But because it's become a default word that brands use without earning it. Real authenticity is proven through actions and community, not claimed in messaging by yourself. In my humble opinion.
- [50:57]
Interviewer
Come back to me when you have your brand tattooed on somebody's body and then we'll talk about authenticity.
- [51:06]
Kristin
Yes, exactly. I love that. Exactly.
- [51:10]
Interviewer
Foreign.
- [51:22]
Kristin
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