AdExchanger Podcast Summary: “What It Means To Measure ‘True ROI’”
Release Date: March 4, 2025
In the episode titled “What It Means To Measure ‘True ROI’,” hosted by Alison Schiff on the AdExchanger Talks podcast, Mary Lois Snowman, CEO and founding partner of Mediastruction, delves deep into the intricacies of measuring true Return on Investment (ROI) in media planning and buying. The conversation spans various critical topics, including the challenges of measurement in advertising, the transformative role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in media, the dynamics between independent agencies and large holding companies, and strategies to combat the darker aspects of digital media.
1. Introduction to Mary Lois Snowman and Mediastruction
Alison Schiff initiates the discussion by introducing Mary Lois Snowman, highlighting her unique journey from journalism to founding Mediastruction in 2007. Mediastruction is characterized as a data-led media planning and buying agency, notable for being woman-owned and serving mid-sized brand clients.
Notable Quote:
"My background is as a writer and as a journalist because most of my day is spent with math equations and talking about math... I found the storytelling in math it kind of led to a career shift."
— Mary Lois Snowman [02:46]
2. Philosophy and Differentiation of Mediastruction
Mary emphasizes Mediastruction’s commitment to bringing sophisticated, holdco-level solutions to mid-market brands. Unlike large holding companies, Mediastruction prides itself on being scrappy, tool-agnostic, and fully capable of delivering in-house data science practices.
Key Points:
- Holistic Approach: Understanding clients’ businesses and consumers comprehensively.
- Measurement Sophistication: Ability to handle omnichannel campaigns and provide Marketing Mix Modeling (MMM) beyond digital-only measurements.
- Independence: Maintaining neutrality in tool and publisher relationships to prioritize clients' best interests.
Notable Quote:
"We can provide MMM against digital only campaigns. We can provide it against brand campaigns using brand measurement as an input... a level of sophistication around measurement that is different from most independent agencies."
— Mary Lois Snowman [09:07]
3. The Impact of AI on Media Planning and Buying
The conversation shifts to the transformative role of AI in media planning. Mary discusses how AI accelerates research, thesis development, and presentation creation. She highlights the potential of synthetic data and AI-driven automation to revolutionize media buying processes.
Key Points:
- Efficiency Gains: AI can handle tasks like structuring unstructured data and automating configuration of media campaigns.
- Synthetic Data: Emerging solutions offer confidence in data modeling, though Mary remains cautiously optimistic.
- Future of Workforce: Anticipates a reduction in the need for large teams of media traders as AI takes over routine tasks.
Notable Quote:
"AI can do that now I haven't seen, I'm very intrigued by this idea of synthetic data. ... we're just a few years away from AI automating all of that."
— Mary Lois Snowman [19:37]
4. Challenges in Measurement and the Concept of True ROI
Mary articulates the confusion between ROI (Return on Investment) and ROAS (Return on Ad Spend), emphasizing that true ROI considers incremental sales influenced by multiple factors beyond direct ad spend. She advocates for Marketing Mix Modeling (MMM) to capture the holistic impact of advertising efforts.
Key Points:
- Incrementality: Differentiating between sales directly attributed to ad spend and those influenced by other variables.
- Holistic Measurement: Incorporating offline data and exogenous factors like weather or economic conditions into ROI calculations.
- Critical Evaluation: Encouraging brands to question and understand the underlying reasons behind AI-driven recommendations.
Notable Quotes:
"...MM models are available to lots of brands, even the dynamic brands that we serve. ... it's really important to have a conversation up front, first of all, about what do we want to solve..."
— Mary Lois Snowman [27:26]
"We can provide that smaller incrementality is a true ROI calculation that a lot of smaller brands miss because they are looking at ROAS..."
— Mary Lois Snowman [33:47]
5. Future Site Platform and Actionable Data Stories
Mediastruction developed an MMM tool named Future Site, which aggregates online and offline data to assess the impact of each ad exposure on sales. This platform facilitates optimized media mix simulations, helping brands determine the most effective allocation of their ad budgets.
Key Points:
- Data Integration: Seamlessly ingesting sales and ad spend data to provide comprehensive insights.
- Optimization: Simulating various media mixes to identify points of diminishing returns and forecast sales outcomes.
- Client Example: A direct-to-consumer brand struggling with cross-channel attribution benefits from Future Site by accurately measuring incrementality and optimizing ad spend across display, search, and social channels.
Notable Quote:
"Future Site is measuring the incrementality. ... we're going to identify for you where you've reached your point of diminishing return by each of those channels and then what is the highest and best use of your ad dollars in combination."
— Mary Lois Snowman [40:36]
6. Combating the Dark Side of Digital Media
Mary introduces Mediastruction’s initiative, “Right Side of Relevance,” aimed at addressing issues like brand safety, bot traffic, and fraudulent activities in digital advertising. The approach involves meticulous curation of safe and high-performing inventory through advanced detection methods and strategic partnerships.
Key Points:
- Quality over Quantity: Prioritizing premium placements that yield higher value conversions despite higher CPMs.
- Tool Agnosticism: Leveraging the best tools and publisher relationships based on performance data rather than fixed partnerships.
- Enhanced Performance: Demonstrating that higher CPM can lead to better ROI through targeted, quality engagements.
Notable Quote:
"We just think of that as being on the right side of relevance. I mean, we want the media to be relevant and that's super important and we do a lot of work around that, but we want to be on the right side of it."
— Mary Lois Snowman [46:04]
7. The Need for Chief Morality Officers in Advertising
Mary underscores the necessity for Chief Morality Officers within the advertising industry to uphold ethical standards. These officers would ensure transparency, ask critical questions about inventory sources, and maintain the integrity of advertising practices.
Key Points:
- Ethical Oversight: Responsible for scrutinizing inventory sources, verifying CPM origins, and ensuring brand safety.
- Transparency: Facilitating honest and open discussions between brands and agencies about advertising practices.
- Journalistic Integrity: Applying a journalist’s inquisitive mindset to promote truth and accountability in advertising.
Notable Quote:
"... asking about the inventory, where the CPM came from, what measures are being put into place to curate those lists and to test those URLs..."
— Mary Lois Snowman [46:54]
8. Final Thoughts and Best Practices for Marketers
As the discussion concludes, Mary offers actionable advice for marketers on evaluating attribution models and ensuring accurate ROI measurement. She advocates for a layered approach—short-term signals, mid-term lifts, and long-term MMM—to comprehensively assess the effectiveness of advertising efforts.
Key Points:
- Layered Measurement: Utilizing different attribution models based on the desired time frame and available data.
- Collaborative Analysis: Engaging in joint analyses with media agencies to align on data usage and measurement objectives.
- Continuous Evaluation: Regularly testing and refining attribution models to ensure they accurately reflect business outcomes.
Notable Quote:
"Some of it just technically like we could take a PDF that's called unstructured data and structure it. That's saving weeks, months of time, just that ability."
— Mary Lois Snowman [22:51]
Conclusion
This episode of AdExchanger Talks provides a comprehensive exploration of what constitutes true ROI in the advertising landscape. Mary Lois Snowman’s insights highlight the complexities of modern media measurement, the pivotal role of AI, and the imperative for ethical stewardship in digital advertising. For mid-sized brands navigating an ever-evolving ad tech environment, the discussion underscores the value of sophisticated, data-driven approaches and the importance of strategic partnerships grounded in transparency and integrity.
Notable Timestamped Quotes:
-
Mary Lois Snowman [02:46]:
"My background is as a writer and as a journalist because most of my day is spent with math equations and talking about math... I found the storytelling in math it kind of led to a career shift." -
Mary Lois Snowman [09:07]:
"We can provide MMM against digital only campaigns. We can provide it against brand campaigns using brand measurement as an input... a level of sophistication around measurement that is different from most independent agencies." -
Mary Lois Snowman [19:37]:
"AI can do that now I haven't seen, I'm very intrigued by this idea of synthetic data. ... we're just a few years away from AI automating all of that." -
Mary Lois Snowman [33:47]:
"We can provide that smaller incrementality is a true ROI calculation that a lot of smaller brands miss because they are looking at ROAS..." -
Mary Lois Snowman [40:36]:
"Future Site is measuring the incrementality. ... we're going to identify for you where you've reached your point of diminishing return by each of those channels and then what is the highest and best use of your ad dollars in combination." -
Mary Lois Snowman [46:04]:
"We just think of that as being on the right side of relevance. I mean, we want the media to be relevant and that's super important and we do a lot of work around that, but we want to be on the right side of it." -
Mary Lois Snowman [46:54]:
"... asking about the inventory, where the CPM came from, what measures are being put into place to curate those lists and to test those URLs..." -
Mary Lois Snowman [22:51]:
"Some of it just technically like we could take a PDF that's called unstructured data and structure it. That's saving weeks, months of time, just that ability."
This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a thorough understanding of the critical discussions around true ROI measurement in the advertising sector.