What Marketers Miss When Their Data Isn't Inclusive

Summary

AdExchanger Talks – Episode Summary

Podcast: AdExchanger
Host: Allison Schiff
Guest: Charlene Polite Corley (VP, Inclusive Insights, Nielsen)
Episode: What Marketers Miss When Their Data Isn't Inclusive
Date: March 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the importance of inclusive and granular data measurement in advertising and media, particularly for historically excluded and underrepresented communities. Guest Charlene Polite Corley, VP of Inclusive Insights at Nielsen, shares what brands miss when their data isn't inclusive, emphasizing the power of representation, the business impact of engaging Black audiences, the nuanced challenges of intersectionality, and the risks of getting it wrong—especially as AI transforms media and marketing.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Charlene’s Nielsen Role & Day-to-Day

[04:54]

• Charlene describes her role: combining audience measurement and cultural analysis to help clients authentically engage diverse communities, especially Black audiences.
• Her work is informed by staying deeply connected to cultural moments, current events, industry trends, and collaboration with her team to create data-driven insights and anticipate trends.
• Quote:
  “My favorite part of the work is, like, how we can help clients in the industry and my team members at Nielsen look forward, look ahead… Here's an opportunity for you to show up and shine as a brand or as a programmer.” (Charlene, [06:51])
• Nielsen's Diverse Intelligence Series aims to offer actionable signals for brands and programmers.

2. The Why: Consequences of Not Measuring Inclusively

[08:18]

• Underrepresentation leads to inaccurate ROI measurement, missed growth, underfunded creators/publishers, and lost relevance with emerging consumer groups.
• Inclusion is critical for ROI, planning, and authentic representation; many cultural and media trends originate within Black communities, which are also among the most voracious media consumers.
• Quote:
  “If we don't start at the beginning with the foundation, we've already kind of sold ourselves short at the end...so often in this business, you walk into the room and you might be the only…” (Charlene, [09:17])
• Underrepresented segments, when combined, make up a significant, growing, and influential audience.

3. Media Consumption Insights—Sports Case Study

[16:13]

• Nielsen data shows Black audiences are highly engaged, with 82% of Black Olympics fans prioritizing live viewing (nearly 30% higher than the general population).
• Black viewers drive conversation not only through viewership but also active engagement on social media.
• Quote:
  “Not just the Black Olympics fan over-indexing on this, but also the Black audience in general is more likely to be watching on the main screen live, but also following along and engaging on social media.” (Charlene, [17:32])
• Opportunity for brands is to leverage this engagement during live moments with real-time, culturally relevant messaging.

4. Addressing Measurement Gaps & Representation Challenges

[21:09]

• Acknowledgment of criticism (e.g., from the National Latina Latino Media Council) regarding historic undercounting of Hispanic audiences.
• Nielsen’s approach includes active community outreach, recruiting for participation, and direct engagement with underrepresented groups—even if trust or willingness is a challenge.
• Importance of reflecting the full diversity in audience measurement and using both quantitative and qualitative tools.

5. Brand Loyalty, Trust, and Cultural Alignment

[25:00]

• Data point: 70% of Black consumers would stop buying from brands perceived to devalue their community; more than half would also avoid brands that mistreat employees.
• Black audiences expect brands to support their values; inclusion must go beyond token gestures to become embedded in long-term strategy.
• Quote:
  “Most of companies and management is about really managing risk...this consumer is telling you how to win with them... inclusion and authenticity and representation.” (Charlene, [25:52])
• Authenticity and consistency—not just “box ticking”—lead to trust and loyalty, even during lean times.

6. Intersectionality & The Multifaceted Black Audience

[28:56], [29:48]

• Black audiences are not monolithic: includes intersectional identities (e.g., Black & LGBTQ+, multilingual, living with disabilities).
• Marketers are urged to move beyond one-size-fits-all; intersectionality requires nuanced segmentation and creative briefs attuned to overlapping identities.
• Major opportunities arise around events like the World Cup, where Black communities may have diverse cultural and linguistic backgrounds.

7. Forgiveness and Consistency in Brand Missteps

[31:45]

• Charlene emphasizes that the response to missteps determines consumer forgiveness.
• Consistent and community-centered engagement builds trust, allowing brands more leeway when mistakes occur.
• Quote:
  “If you show up consistently, you're a part of the community, you're a good neighbor...you have that relationship with your consumer.” (Charlene, [32:06])

8. AI: Hopes, Fears, and Non-Negotiables

[34:31]

• Black consumers are skeptical of AI-generated ads and media: 2 in 5 believe AI cannot accurately reflect their culture and values.
• With 61% already feeling misrepresented in advertising, AI risks amplifying bias unless properly managed.
• Non-negotiables for scaling AI:
  • Strong human oversight (“humans in the loop”)
  • Cultural competency as a built-in “insurance policy”
  • Rigorous data standards, regular audits for bias or hallucination in outputs
• Quote:
  “If you are all in on trusting AI, you need to be all in on trusting your people...Cultural competency is your insurance policy almost in what AI is going to output in like marketing, creative and advertising.” (Charlene, [35:04])

9. Practical Advice for Marketers

[40:03]

• Marketers should clarify their “why”—what is the core motivation for targeting a specific community?
• Start with a specific segment, not the entire diaspora; know which cultural “corner” or region you’re trying to reach, and tailor messaging accordingly.
• Progress requires precision: “bite-sized,” focused pilots rather than blanket approaches.
• Quote:
  “I would ask them, why. What's your motivation for this target? And then which corner of the culture are you trying to reach?” (Charlene, [40:03])

10. Retiring Old Assumptions & Sharpening the Brief

[42:41]

• The industry must let go of the belief that “just because we show up does not mean we are sold.” Presence ≠ resonance or conversion.
• Stronger briefing questions are needed:
  • “How do we want this segment to talk about our brand in their real lives?”
  • “What does being a good customer look like—and how can our brand help make that happen?”
  • Brands must understand the everyday life and context of their audiences beyond traditional “consumer” roles.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Charlene on cultural impact:
  “So much of every trend, not just here, but around the world, comes from African American culture...” ([10:12])

• On intersectionality:
  “...their experiences are extremely diverse...understanding some of those deeper elements that are in the intersections...” (Charlene, [29:48])

• On brand missteps:
  “It depends a lot on what happens next...if you show up consistently, you're a part of the community...you have that relationship with your consumer...” (Charlene, [31:52])

• On AI and culture:
  “Cultural competency is your insurance policy almost in what AI is going to output in like marketing, creative and advertising...” (Charlene, [35:04])

• On foundational assumptions:
  “Just because we show up does not mean that we are sold...it may not be because they're not your, you know, market...maybe we need to adjust the strategy.” (Charlene, [42:41])

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Charlene’s day & Inclusive Insights at Nielsen – [04:54]
• The stakes of missing inclusive measurement – [08:18], [11:36]
• Black audience sports/media insights – [16:13]
• Gaps in measurement (Hispanic/Latino audiences) – [21:09]
• Trust and brand values among Black consumers – [25:00]
• Intersectionality in audience planning – [28:56], [29:48]
• Forgiveness & consistency in missteps – [31:45]
• AI’s risks/rewards & cultural guardrails – [34:31], [35:04]
• Practical advice for marketers – [40:03]
• Retiring old assumptions/sharpening briefs – [42:41]

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Final Takeaways

• Inclusive measurement is not just about fairness—it is crucial for accurate ROI, cultural relevance, and long-term brand growth.
• Black audiences drive culture and represent significant, engaged, and diverse market segments that require nuanced understanding and outreach.
• Intersectionality matters; one-size-fits-all fails in today’s media landscape.
• AI must be rigorously checked for cultural bias—human oversight and data diversity are non-negotiable.
• Brands must move from surface-level inclusion to deep, sustained, value-based relationships—consistency, trust, and active listening are essential.
• Old industry assumptions—like equating presence with persuasion—need to be retired in favor of sharper, more people-centered questions and strategies.

For further details or to download the full Black Diverse Intelligence Series report, visit nielsen.com/blackamerica.

Transcript

[Allison Schiff]

Welcome to Ad Exchanger Talks, the podcast devoted to examining the issues and trends in advertising and marketing technology that matter most to you.

[Podcast Sponsor / Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Zadac. So Zeta's AI platform unifies paid, owned and earned media into one powerful growth engine, optimizing performance in real time and driving measurable outcomes with confidence. Don't Hope for higher ROI. Expect it with Zeta. Learn more at zetaglobal.com ADExchanger.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Foreign

[Allison Schiff]

I'm Allison Schiff and you're listening to Ad Exchanger Talks. Thanks for lending your ears and your eyes if you happen to be watching the video version. My guest this week is Charlene Polite Corley, VP of Inclusive Insights at Nielsen, where she leads research that combines audience measurement and cultural analysis to help brands understand and authentically engage with historically excluded and and often miss and underrepresented communities. With a focus on black audiences, we'll talk about why inclusive granular measurement is essential. We'll dive into Nielsen's data, including some really interesting media consumption insights about black audiences. We'll get into why consistency and cultural competency are non negotiable for brands, including, and maybe especially when they're using AI and lots of other good stuff. But first, I'm going to plug our next event, Programmatic AI, taking place March 18th through the 20th in Las Vegas. As the name denotes, we'll be talking about all things AI related, from AI in media planning and agentic optimization to responsible AI and the human advantage. Because yes, we do still need humans. Thankfully, podcast listeners get 10% off the price of their ticket when they use the code POD10. See you there folks. Hey Charlene, welcome to the podcast.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Hey Alison, thanks for having me.

[Allison Schiff]

So what's one thing about you that not a lot of other people already know?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

One thing about me that not a lot of people already know is that the wizard of Oz is my favorite movie since about the time I was around 2 or 3 years old. So a lot of, and I'll say a lot of the folks in my work life probably don't know.

[Allison Schiff]

Were you wildly excited for Wicked?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Yes and no, because it's its own thing and so very they're connected universes. But yeah, it was fabulous. And I love the callbacks to the 1939 films, though. Really, really fun.

[Allison Schiff]

I love the old Tin Man, I love the old Lion. They're really like classic avatars of humanity. Yeah, there's something really deep about the wizard of Oz. You could watch it as a kid and then you can go back and an adult and go a lot deeper.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

And over the rainbow throughout my life has been like a mantra of encouragement, like, why not me? Why can't I? So that's been the lullaby for my kids. I walked down the aisle when I got married to that song. It's definitely one of the classics. So if you haven't heard Judy at Carnegie hall perform that one, go cry your eyes out.

[Allison Schiff]

I'm gonna go find it later. So you, you've been at Nielsen for a long time, a 17 year span, wearing a whole bunch of different hats. You were a client services rep for local tv. You were director of national TV Client Solutions and VP of Inclusive Insights, which is your title now. And I think it's a very interesting title and I want to dig into what it means and what it is you do. Exactly. And I'm just going to read a little bit from your bio. So you combine data and storytelling to illuminate how black audiences shape media, culture and business outcomes. So first, before I ask you a real question, I have a silly question. Are you a coffee person?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Yes, absolutely. Have to have a cup to start the day, but also just to kind of for caffeine purposes. Cheers. And if I haven't mentioned already, like two young kids working full time, like, if you're doing it without caffeine, please let me know.

[Allison Schiff]

Okay, so, so you've had your first one, two or seven cups of coffee, you sit down, you fire up a laptop with coffee number eight, and then what does a day in your life look like? Like, make me a fly on the wall during a typical day for the VP of Inclusive Insights at Nielsen.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Oh, fun times. Okay, so I am probably starting with my podcasts on both, like industry trends and news going on. So part of how I inform where I'm going in my research is to really be involved in culture, in trends, in current events, and kind of point to not just where like the industry is headed, but what audiences are really putting their attention toward. And that can be anything from like the ad exchanger and trade publications to know my favorite podcast as a black elder millennial. So tuning into some of that sort of set the stage, right? Any I think anybody in modern working world, there's probably a ton of emails you have to catch up on, but then also connecting and like sharing updates with my team in the chat. And then we kind of start to dive into data. Okay, this is the content that we want to work on. This is happening in culture right now. We know that. We did a study and we have a rapid response I literally was just sending some data to a teammate around, like, yeah, here's the latest on women's sports that we can go in and have a point of view. So I do think there's a lot of reaction that happens based on, like, trends of the day. But my favorite part of the work is, like, how we can help clients in the industry and my team members at Nielsen. Look forward, look ahead. Here's what's coming. And so, especially when it comes to our diverse intelligence series, which is kind of like our show, and tell of trends happening in these different audience segments, it's also a look ahead to say, this is what is brewing. Here's an opportunity based on these signals rooted in data. That is an opportunity for you to show up and shine as a brand or as a programmer. Here is a gap that audiences are saying, hey, we need more representation here. Or this didn't quite get it right. That's an opportunity for you to greenlight something and go be the hero.

[Allison Schiff]

So.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

So I love those opportunities. Kind of dig into the different solutions and data sets that Nielsen has to paint a picture that points people forward, not just look back.

[Allison Schiff]

We're going to do a lot of digging because I read through the black diverse intelligence series, the most recent one, and there's a lot of stuff I want to talk about from that. But first, the term you used, Elder Millennial. So funny, because I've actually heard. So I'm 42, which makes me. I thought the term was geriatric millennial. I've heard people use that term.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I refuse. Okay. Nothing. Nothing against my bariatric folks, but I. No, no, ma'.

[Podcast Sponsor / Announcer]

Am.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

We are the elder states, women or people of the generation. Okay, I like that. Branding.

[Allison Schiff]

Yeah, it is all about the branding. So before we get into some of the specific insights that you guys have uncovered recently in your research, I want to take a step back and talk about the why a little bit more. Like why it's important to do what you do. So when you think about inclusive measurements, like, what's at stake if we don't get it right for black audiences, Hispanic audiences, and what breaks in the system when those communities and like any communities are underrepresented in the data because there's misrepresentation. But then there's also what happens when certain audiences just aren't represented at all, which is a problem. Problem, too, for sure.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I think it goes back to, like, our sort of mission at the company is to be that premier media intelligence provider, and we are not offering as valuable of A service to our clients if we're not representing literally everyone. And then it's not just about the top line. If you really want to get into the secret sauce again about where things are headed, what trends are sort of leading the package, you've got to be able to break those headlines apart, right, and dive into not just culture, but subculture that is completely driving mainstream, or where not just your consumer of today is, but who's your consumer of tomorrow. What's Gen Alpha up to? And so in our television audience measurement, for example, like Everybody who's age 2 and up gets measured, right? When you consent to be a part of Nielsen's measurement panel, that nuance, that granularity, is really important to incorporate, like, what real people are doing and have that show up in real, actual data. I think the other important, the other piece of the why is kind of rooted in my bio. So you talk about how I started my Nielsen career in as a local TV station rep, going to all the markets nobody on the team wanted, right? So all over the. All over the US and then navigating those national broadcasters and clients. But the through line of my career throughout Nielsen has always been representation in media. Because so often in this business, you walk into the room and you might be the only woman, you might be the only black person, you might be the only millennial, you might be the only person from rural America, right? And so all of that shows up with a different perspective that may not be at the decision making table, that can make a difference in the decisions being made. And so having that show up intentionally from the outset and how we approach solutions, how we approach strategies, it just sets us up for better success. And again, every conversation we're having today, right, is rooted in roi, return on investment. But if we don't start at the beginning with the foundation, we've already kind of sold ourselves short at the end. So I think all of that matters on a broad concept about why inclusion is essential. But then going in, zooming in on the black audience and black culture specifically, so much of every trend, not just here, but around the world, comes from African American culture, comes from the trends in this community. And there's also, according to the measurement, nobody consuming more media than us. So I think it is really beneficial to get it right with some of these smaller segments that have outsized impact in what we're all doing and seeing and hearing and following along with when it comes to trends.

[Allison Schiff]

And you add smaller segments together, and all of these people have, you know, money to spend. They Right. I mean, they have eyeballs to reach. So you were referring to markets that no one wanted to go to, for example, as kind of a joke. But hey, like, those are people are people, people are consumers. I like to refer to consumers as people because I feel like the word consumer is kind of like the word content instead of journalism. It just doesn't feel like the right word to me.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

But we are more than just our ability to consume. The other thing I like to remind a lot of the clients I've been speaking to lately is like, yes, there are a lot of economic realities facing a lot of people. And just because I can't afford your brand today does not mean then I should not be a part of your brand strategy today. Right. We're all having those aspirations of where I'm going to be in two years or five years or once I get that big break and you want to be the brand. That is somebody's proof point of like, oh, I made it. I was able to afford X, Y and Z.

[Allison Schiff]

There's really a hidden cost in terms of growth because everything on a spreadsheet can look very efficient and optimized, like air quotes. But then underneath that, if you have communities that aren't being counted properly or just aren't being accounted for, then you have creators that are underfunded, publishers that are being underfunded, people that you're not reaching who could be your consumers in future. And then as a brand, you're also just missing where culture is actually moving. So it feels like the hidden costs affect everyone. Media owners, creators, agencies, the communities themselves, a thousand percent.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

And I think that's always why on our Inclusive Insights team, you'll always hear us doing a combination of, yes, hard quantitative trends and numbers, but also that qualitative aspect, because again, in a, in a business obsessed with scale and efficiency and all of those things, sometimes cultural impact doesn't show up in those numbers. But when you have segments that are saying, actually it means more to me for you to show up here, show up here consistently show up here with this partner, show up here looking and sounding like this. Those are elements that can make you more successful that don't always show up in some of those hard numbers. So it's that combination of the, again, the data and the storytelling that I think can be so powerful in our strategy and effective with not just consumers, but with people, to your point.

[Allison Schiff]

And it's not abstract at all. I mean, it's so real and it has to tie into the media planning. But I want to Talk about a few recent big sporting events that are still quite fresh because we can make this real for our listeners.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Topics.

[Allison Schiff]

Super bowl and the Winter Olympics. But what's your favorite Winter Olympic sport, by the way?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I am obsessed with figure skating, and at one point in my childhood, thought I would be a figure skater. Now, again, you might have heard me say rural America. I also grew up in the American south in Florida, so ice skating wasn't really a thing. But I saw. What is her name, Sariah Vonnelly, do a backflip on the ice in my childhood and was sold. She had, you know, this beautiful.

[Allison Schiff]

I remember that. Yeah.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Magic on the ice. I was like, yep, that's what I want to do. So I've definitely been a fan of figure skating for a long time. It's just what magic we have seen in the Olympics yet again this year.

[Allison Schiff]

My grandfather was a semi pro figure skater actually in Hungary before World War II. Yeah. And then came to the U.S. lived in Florida, retired to Florida, lived in New York, and then moved to Florida. Very classic, you know, migration of, you know, Jews from New York over to Fort Lauderdale. And when I was a kid, we would go there every winter for winter break, my parents and I, to visit my grandparents, and we would go ice skating. And he, at that point was in his late 60s, and he would do these pirouettes, like, it was pretty amazing. And people would. They would kind of spread out and give him space in the middle of the rink to do his thing. It was very cool. I took ice skating lessons as a kid. No tap talent there. Unfortunately, it's not genetic if you can

[Charlene Polite Corley]

be upright on ice skates. I just encourage everyone to try that. One time. My daughter recently got invited to a birthday party that was held at our. One of our local parks has a public ice rink. And I was like, no, she's three. I'm gonna go on the ice with her and help her make sure. She's never done this before. Ciao. I almost died. It is the balance to just be upright is so impressive. But, like, then the dance, the movement, the grace that these folks have in the sport is just incredible. So, yeah, props to you and your grandfather.

[Allison Schiff]

No, I never learned to stop. I learned how to. Well, the way I stopped was by just going into a wall. Like, I just allowed an object to stop me. I was never able to actually stop on skates.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was literally like, okay, we're going to get her out here with her little. Like the little stroller brace. And I'm Going to look for an emergency exit, but she's got it.

[Allison Schiff]

Need the adult stroller brace.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Yeah.

[Allison Schiff]

So let's dig into the data. Nielsen's data shows that black audiences are most likely to be like, very, very interested in five or more sports. And that feels like a very important stat. With sports growing and continuing to grow its share of total viewership, there's just massive opportunity there. And that's true even for globally established massive sporting events with huge audiences already like the Olympics. So you talked about the Intelligence series, but for the past 15 years, Nielsen has been putting out this report called the Black Diverse Intelligence Series. It's data driven insights on black and African American consumer trends and media habits, brand loyalty insights, cultural influence, and it's meant to be a guide for marketers. And there's just a lot to pull out from it from the 2026 report. But one that's particularly striking is that 82% of Black Olympics fans make it a point to watch live, like major events live. So that's almost 30 points higher than the total number of respondents who say the same thing. And that's just a massive delta. So do you think marketers appreciate that fact? Because that's a very, very engaged audience and they're right there.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Absolutely. I think we are starting to see some of that essential live engagement strategy showing up. Not just the Black Olympics fan over indexing on this, but also the black audience in general is more likely to be watching on the main screen live, but also following along and engaging on social media. So we're not just driving the delivery of viewership to some of these huge cultural moments, but also driving the conversation around what happens more broadly, again in culture. So to have a finger on the pulse of what is happening in our communities is also to kind of be a part of that conversation in the cultural trend. And from a marketing perspective, the opportunity to show up in real time with, you know, an offering or a brand positioning that can really be memorable if done. If done right. So I do think we saw some of that collaboration, if not during the events themselves, very shortly thereafter, taking off in a big way.

[Allison Schiff]

I wanted to say this is such a random thing to talk about, but I watched a bunch of curling this year because I was in Bars with Friends and the Olympics were on tv and for some reason every time I was out, it was just curling on TV every single time. And you know those sweepers that go crazy with their brushes, making sure the path is clear. It's a, it's, I feel like it's A. It's a really important kind of part of that process. And they're unsung heroes. You know, like, they're. They're allowing the. I don't even know what the curling thing is called, but they're allowing it to go to where it needs to be, like, where the puck needs to go. And that feels like a metaphor somehow. I don't know.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I haven't fully thought it out. Yeah. And just to carry the metaphor, I mean, I do feel like, you know, strong research, strong insights, clears the path for, like, a winning strategy. So, like your partners in this, you know, the work that we're doing in this, in this recording and Nielsen measurement and providing that to the industry, I think helps kind of clear that path so you can get where you need to go, hopefully in a. In a better way, more efficient, faster way, and then go. Go win some gold. Right. So, yeah, I'll follow a metaphor any day. I like it.

[Allison Schiff]

Thank you for saving me because I kind of snarled myself into a bit of a ramble there. So we're going to take a quick break and when we're back, we're just going to talk more about the data because there's a lot in that report that is worth highlighting. So stick with us.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Sounds good.

[Podcast Sponsor / Announcer]

I want to take a quick moment to thank our sponsor this month, Zeta Global. Zeta's AI platform unifies paid, owned and earned media into one powerful growth engine, optimizing performance in real time and driving measurable outcomes with confidence. Don't hope for a higher ROI. Expect it with Zeta. You can learn more at zetaglobal.com AdExchanger thanks for their support.

[Allison Schiff]

All right, welcome back. And before we get into the data, there is something I wanted to broach. I just love your perspective on this because there's been some criticism that Nielsen has faced from certain groups like the National Latina Latino Media Council for undercounting Hispanic audiences in TV and digital, which, like we were talking about before the break, means, like, less ad dollars and visibility for creators and shows. And so I'm sure that's something that's, like, on your mind. And so how does the Inclusive Insights team tackle those gaps head on? How do you think about making things better, especially as, like, Hispanic viewership over indexes on streaming and sports, Just like black viewership.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Absolutely. So I think this is, of course, really an important issue across the board at Nielsen. We always want to make sure that, again, who we have represented in our work is reflective of the people in these different audience groups. And so continuing to keep that representation at the right levels is something that is the work of almost everyone at Nielsen, but certainly everything from our Business Inclusion Impact and Belonging team to Inclusive Insights and the recruiters that go and knock on these doors to recruit people to participate, they will literally take our body of work around the Hispanic, Latino consumer base to say, hey, we're, we're Nielsen. You may not have heard of us, but here's how you can show up. Here's the power in using your voice in this way. But I will say that like, you know, I'm not directly on that, on that committee right now, but I do think it is more and more challenging to get people to say yes, to trust the person knocking on the door. Right. Um, as you said, consumers are more than that. They are people. And so just like how our behaviors change with engaging in media. If you go on vacation, you know, the, the day to day life, it impacts people's willingness to, I think, to say yes to something like participating in a really thorough measurement. But it's something we're committed to doing. We know how important it is. And there are a lot of really smart people more well versed than I am on exactly what that strategy looks like to keep those numbers in a great position. I think you saw some of the outcomes. You know, just recently there was a small event called the super bowl. And I think the, the concert that took place in the middle of that game, I just think shows the power of getting all those folks measured across the board. So, yeah, it's ongoing.

[Allison Schiff]

Right before hopping on this podcast with you, I got a pitch from the tourism board of Puerto Rico and they were pitching. I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but some pretty significant uptick in interest in traveling to Puerto Rico after the Bad Bunny halftime show.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

And think about that. I'm sure they saw it. Even think about his residency last year. You know, the numbers and the impact on the economy that he has had as an artist on the island is really incredible. But for sure, great place to visit. Yeah. So hopefully they'll continue to see that impact.

[Allison Schiff]

He's also straight up hilarious. Like when he's on Saturday Night Live. He is so funny.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

He's a natural artist in so many ways. It's great.

[Allison Schiff]

Do you ever watch the Please don't destroy videos on Saturday Night Live? If not, Google it. They're so funny. Particularly the ones but there are a couple with bad. They're just choice.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

They're so good.

[Allison Schiff]

Okay, so I'm going to Go back to the report we were talking about before the break. Lots of data to get into. So 70% of black consumers say they'll stop buying from brands they perceive as devaluing their community. And more than half say they'll walk away if a company mistreats its employees. And then you have 63% saying that they expect brands to support the causes that they care about, which is a lot of pressure, I think, for marketers. But when you're in the room with CMOs, how do you help them distinguish between inclusion and the kind of sustained, value aligned behavior that actually builds trust and loyalty over time and just box ticking.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

We tried to do some of that with the case studies that we highlight within the report and talking about how, yes, it matters, the principles that you want to operate with as an organization, those are yours to choose. But be advised that this segment is actually paying really close attention to those values that you choose to operate with. How you treat your employees, how you treat the environment in the communities that you work within. Are you a good neighbor to those folks? Right. Are you sort of reinvesting in, in those places? And so consumers are very savvy and discerning in this day and age. And also that data is usually really accessible for them if they want to find it. And so all of that matters. I think when we're in the room having these conversations, I like to position it as, you know, most of companies and management is about really managing risk and some risks get more headlines than others. Positioning this data in front of them, I think in this way also lets them know like, hey, there's a opportunity cost to kind of ignoring this set of risk here and this consumer is telling you how to win with them. And so I think if you focus on that upside, you know, causes that we care about, it's inclusion and authenticity and representation. Everyone's trying to win the war for attention. And black audiences are literally saying, I will pay more attention when you show up in this way. When I am at the center and represented authentically, that's going to grab my attention. But oh, by the way, this audience is also the more the most likely to want to engage in content that represents a range of different identity groups. So not just representation of our experience, inclusion of different experiences across the board. So again, that's part of why, speaking of bad bunny, over 128 million people tune in to see a halftime show entirely in Spanish. Even if we don't speak the language, we want to connect to an authentic cultural experience. Right. It's why K Pop Demon Hunters, a little movie you may have heard of or streamed last year, is at the top of the heap and went triple platinum in my house with the soundtrack. And it's rooted in Korean culture and authenticity even though it's this fantastical story. Right. And so I think there are all of again signals that show when we operate with this thinking intentionally, we include that in our strategies. And we don't just do it during Black History Month or Juneteenth, but we show up consistently. There is a payoff there. Not just yes with bottom line impact and also with long term loyalty. So even in boon times and lean folks will stick beside a brand when they get those things right. And I think that is the sweet spot about doing these things. That yes, it's the right thing to do, but it's also the really, really smart thing to do.

[Allison Schiff]

I have a bunch of a whole package of K Pop Demon Hunter themed ramen in my kitchen right now. They were selling it at Costco.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

That's my my 8 year old, pretty good, loves ramen. So I will have to find that send it to me.

[Allison Schiff]

I mean it's pretty spicy but you can regulate how much spice goes in because it's in a packet. So you were talking about multicultural identities or aligning yourself with other cultures. But then the report also surfaces like multi dimensional identities. So like black and LGBTQ plus or black and Hispanic. Black consumers who speak another language. Black people living with disabilities like et cetera, et cetera. And all of them say that they would be more likely to pay attention to ads and to content that reflect their culture, that reflect who they are. So what does that look like when you're getting it right? Like intersectionality for marketers when they're building segments, when they're coming up with creative briefs, when they're deciding on Cape KPIs so that they're moving beyond a sort of one size fits all like black audience planning strategy.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Great question. I think it was really important for us to surface some of these different segments as examples to focus on one of my favorites being black and speak another language. Because I do think we have a tendency to use broad strokes. And while that might have been good enough for a very long time, again consumers are really savvy and they're also their experiences are extremely diverse and so they want that that is how we add that richness and signal authenticity is understanding some of those deeper elements that are in the intersections. Right. Again, I think something a segment like black and speak another language. There's A perfect opportunity coming up this summer with the World cup, you know, the, the intersectionality of, you know, black and African Americans who might be interested in the sport of soccer or football, but also if you are maybe a black first generation American and bringing a cultural heritage from another country or a language from another country, that's also really interesting opportunity, a really interesting opportunity for a brand to show up, you know, with the right jersey color, with the right slang or language that can be even more effective. And you know, since this data tells us half of our black foreign born population now is from Africa. And if you think about all the different languages represented there, all the different, you know, tribal, you know, identities, there's a lot of richness that is left uncovered. And so there's, I think especially through sport, especially through these big cultural moments, brands can start to signal some of their understanding of the black experience by really tapping into some of these different, you know, walks of life that we all might be gathered around a table, around a TV screen, but showing up in different ways or communicating in different ways and a brand that signals they understand that is also sending a really great invitation to do business with their consumer.

[Allison Schiff]

How forgiving are people when a brand tries something and they try in a genuine way, but they just fail spectacularly.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I think it depends a lot on what happens next. And so hearing from your consumer, they're like, this ain't it and responding to that, like, oops, our bad and here's how we're going to make sure it doesn't happen again. Sometimes it's as simple as that. And then other times what happens next is like not what your consumer base wants or what's sufficient, or the brand might feel like they did a great job and nothing went wrong. So I think a lot of it really depends on what happens next. And I think again that this is where consistency means so, so much. If it's your first time at that, then probably a lot more cleaning up to do or, you know, what happens next is really, really critical. If you show up consistently, you're a part of the community, you're a good neighbor, you talk to this, you know, segment every day, you understand the nuance that's a little bit different where somebody might be disappointed that you had a misstep, but you also have that relationship with your consumer to be like, you know, we got you, we're going to show up, right? And actually here's the edit, you know, it's fine. So I think that's also where consistency becomes really, really critical to Your strategy being successful and then how you handle those missteps. We're all human, we're all going to have them. That is really essential. What happens next?

[Allison Schiff]

I mean, consistency and listening. Right?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Just great advice in life.

[Allison Schiff]

Keep your ears open.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

And in marketing, it is good advice for life.

[Allison Schiff]

Yeah, a lot of marketing advice can be flipped and turned into pretty decent advice for life. Talk to people how they want to be talked to. Like, don't overdo it, Know when you're being annoying and shut up. So it would not be a podcast if we didn't talk about AI for a minute. Like, I don't, I don't want to get in trouble. Like, I think I'm contractually obligated to make an AI reference. So you found that more than 2 in 5 black consumers believe that AI created ads can't accurately, accurately reflect their culture and values. And that's on top of 61% who already feel misrepresented in advertising just in General, and the 71% who feel misrepresented in media more broadly. The full media umbrella. So given that context as the backdrop, what guardrails or measurement standards or frameworks should be non negotiable before brands scale AI into their creative strategies and their audience strategies?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Great, great question. Because again, we cannot, you know, AI is a part of life and a part of work. Right. But I feel like that skepticism from consumers is founded in that, you know, AI can only do what humans tell it to do and what we inform it to do and garbage in, garbage out. If the foundation sometimes though, like good

[Allison Schiff]

in and garbage out. Because I've had like a lot of really pointless hallucinations that I'm like, why did you make this up? Like, there's no reason for you to

[Charlene Polite Corley]

have hallucinated this to, to just make things like throw a wrench in the plan. So, yeah, the hallucinations can be really challenging in the best of models, right. In the best of gems and GPTs. You know, it's just, that's just a thing that happens apparently in these systems. But I think it's one of the things that I've told folks before in my talks is, you know, if you are all in on trusting AI, you need to be all in on trusting your people and in lockstep with your principles of inclusion and data rigor and accuracy to inform the foundation your AI is going to operate with. Because again, if we don't have that, and then we don't have those humans in the loop to double check for those hallucinations and kick the tires on what the output is, not just from a numbers perspective, but from a cultural competency perspective. I feel like cultural competency is your insurance policy almost in what AI is going to output in like marketing, creative and advertising. Because AI may not necessarily know that. Like, hey, that's a callback to this really offensive thing that happened in my culture. Maybe it will, but it depends on a lot of times on those inputs. And so I think if we are just kind of going all in on AI without the proper guardrails, all we're doing is amplifying risk. Right? And so again, those teams that you have at the table informing the product and reviewing the output are going to be so, so essential. The more we lean on the AI, the more we actually have to lean on people and really, really sound data.

[Allison Schiff]

How much of that is a marketer's responsibility and how much of that is just like a lawyer's responsibility?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I think that all of us as users of these tools have a responsibility to, you know, go in understanding what the limitations are, what the use cases are. That is a lot to ask of the user, but that's kind of where we're at right now because there are no standards, right? And so, you know, even as this kind of goes out into the consumer realm, you know, what is the proper usage of some of these tools? You know, with great power comes great responsibility. And so I do think it's like up to each user to use this and use this in the proper way, just like with anything on the Internet. Right? So, yes, the legal team, but not all of us have that. So I think being a personally responsible user of AI is probably the best we can do right now.

[Allison Schiff]

It's the weirdest experience though, when you're chatting with a chat bus search chatbot and you're given what's clearly just weird information or it's just a little bit off and it's presented with such confidence. And then I will, I'll correct it. I'll be like, hey, I don't think this is right, or what are you talking about? And be like, oh, like, my bad, you're so right.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I have a whole collection of screenshots where it's just me sassily correcting AI, but our, our chief tech officer,

[Allison Schiff]

when

[Charlene Polite Corley]

he joined, basically it's like, you know, AI chatbots are very, very good at very, very confidently presenting very, very wrong information. And so that again, it's like, wow, sounds convincing. Unless you have that, that skeptical cap on or you're an expert in the subject and can really kind of counter. And it's interesting again how quickly it'll be like, oh, yeah, actually, that's correct. I found these additional sources. I'm like, well, where were they the first time?

[Allison Schiff]

Right?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

Always get your AI to cited sources. Okay. And link to them. Because it. I've had it hallucinate a ton of sources before with hyperlinks that don't work, but exactly.

[Allison Schiff]

You have to click in because. But here's your source and I'll click in and I'll search for the information in there. I'm like, it's not in there. You just found a link. It's like these assistants and chatbots and that the whole ilk. They're either your. One of your best colleagues or they're like your absolute worst colleague on. On their.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I like to think of it as like, it's colleague at like the happy hour. And you're asking them a word question. Could be brilliant, could be a little saucy.

[Allison Schiff]

That's a funny way to think about it. So penultimate question. If a brand came to you and said, we want to reach black audiences or Hispanic audiences more effectively, but we just don't know, like, where to start, what would be like one specific test or pilot or what advice would you give them that they should do in the next quarter to get them going, like, something they can do to get the momentum going first?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I would ask them, why. What's your motivation for this target? And then which corner of the culture are you trying to reach? Because that is a very broad segment. When you think about how many different cultures might be represented in that, how many regions, how many different life experiences, class, income, who is your Persona or profile or what group are you going to start with? Because it can be a lot to bite off at one time. And especially in today's fragmented media landscape, there are very few places where you're going to put out a plan and just reach everybody in one hit. Right. You know, save for a couple of moments on those live viewing opportunities, like a sporting event or radio still reaches about 90% of the black population. But by and large, we have to be very specific around how and where we want to show up to reach a particular piece of the segment. You know, for if it's maybe my, you know, Gen X group, I might be tuned into some fast programming where black audiences are actually 13% of the population, but driving almost a third of that engagement. You know, for black men. I'm on gaming platforms, right? And so again, like, understanding the nuance within and across a community to really get specific and understand that I might need a particular path to really resonate here. And looking at it that way, you might then say, okay, these are the priorities because they have the influence. We can reach them with X, Y and Z experience in their local market or something like that. But I would really dive into the why and then who and focus on that in the short term to build across the entire community or diaspora long term.

[Allison Schiff]

So that actually maybe answers this last question, but I'm going to ask you anyway. So it's been 15 years of the black diverse intelligence series, and there have been some shifts in the sentiment data. But looking back across those 15 years, like, what's one assumption about black consumers that the industry just finally needs to retire? And then what's one sharper question that you wish every marketer would start their brief with instead?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

One I think assumption that I talk about a lot is just because we show up does not mean that we are sold. As I mentioned, the black audience is America's most avid audience. Right. We're consuming the most media. And just because we are tuned in to that does not mean that your ad landed the right way, that that representation was aligned with what they actually would like to see. So I like to position almost like the auditor of media that you can show up and kind of give that review. And so just because we are showing up in a place does not mean that we are sold. And so again, if you're just purely looking at that ROI metric, like, we can't waste time on this segment. It may not be because they're not your, you know, your market that you should be talked to. It's maybe that we need to adjust the strategy. Maybe we need to adjust the creative. Maybe we need additional partners or different voices in that mix. And so that is, that is one thing that I think still we have not quite landed on. But when it's right, it is so, so right. And then what was the second part of your question?

[Allison Schiff]

Oh, I mean, so let's say marketers take what you said totally on board then. Yes. And like, what's one sharper question that you wish marketers would ask when they're starting their brief?

[Charlene Polite Corley]

I. I would love to see more of, like, what do we want this community or this segment to say about our brand? How do we want them to advocate, you know, how do we want to show up in the conversation? How do you want to show up in the group chat? What's our best case scenario for how they are using our brand in their everyday life. And I think understanding not just the consumer, but a person, a person's everyday life. Now we're talking about like, well, we were advertising it to do X, but did you know that black consumers actually use it here, here, here and here instead of. And so it opens up that possibility around not just what you were telling consumers, what your brand does, but what consumers actually are talking back to say, this is how your brand is a part of my life and all these other ways. So I think that is also potential magic. But like, how do we want them to be? What does being a loyal customer look like? What does being a good customer look like? So then the brand can also show up in the ways that people need.

[Allison Schiff]

I mean, what does a good customer look like? Starts by understanding who they are as a person. Well, from one elder millennial to another, thanks for the insights.

[Charlene Polite Corley]

My pleasure. You know, again, thanks so much for diving into this, this insight and you can download the [e-mail] blackamerica do it.

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