Hustle, Flow or Let it Go? Lessons from Burnout and Grief - with Dr. Portia Preston - Ep 556

Summary

Podcast Summary: ADHD reWired, Episode 556

Title: Hustle, Flow or Let it Go? Lessons from Burnout and Grief - with Dr. Portia Preston
Host: Eric Tivers, LCSW, ADHD-CCSP
Guest: Dr. Portia Preston
Date: September 15, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves deep into the lived experience of burnout, the pressure of “hustle culture,” and the journey toward sustainable, shame-free wellness, particularly through the lens of neurodivergence (ADHD, autism) and as experienced by Black women. Dr. Portia Preston, author of "Hustle, Flow or Let It Go," joins host Eric Tivers to share personal insights on reframing hustle, defining flow, letting go, and embracing grief as part of a real and meaningful life. The discussion is honest and raw, focusing on authenticity, self-compassion, and the complexity of wellness for people with ADHD.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Portia Preston’s Origin Story and the Genesis of Her Book

• Motivation for Writing: Dr. Preston wanted to find a blueprint for herself to escape cycles of overwork and shame, stating the book was the exact one she needed.

  “I wanted to find my own way out...I needed to find permission to have a more sustainable rhythm…” (06:07)

• Writing Process: Refined the book obsessively, drawing upon her own hyperfocus, leading to new concepts like the SANE Cycle and a deeper message about wellness.

  “It was my hyper fixation in its crowning glory … I was just trying to make the words sing and pop.” (07:16)

Rethinking Hustle, Flow, & Letting Go

• Hustle: More than just working hard; it’s whatever causes you to overfunction in unsustainable or self-neglecting ways. Not inherently “bad” but needs boundaries and awareness.

  “Whatever is unsustainable, whatever is having a negative impact on what you value most … if it’s having a negative impact, that’s the hustle.” (11:20, Dr. Preston)

• Flow: Expanded from the usual sense of being “in the zone” to include practices or moments, however small, that nourish and replenish you—meditation, mindful breaks, etc.

  “You shouldn’t have to leave the hustle to find flow … you want a menu, a body of practices that meet you where you are.” (13:41, Dr. Preston)

• Let It Go?: Deeply acknowledges how hard letting go is (“there’s a question mark there for a reason”). “Let it go” is about releasing unsustainable elements, even if imperfectly, and understanding this takes time and practice.

  “I want to acknowledge how hard that is … it’s part of the formula, but it’s not something we can hustle through.” (15:13, Dr. Preston)

SANE Model for Sustainable Wellness (Chapter 8)

A four-step, accessible process to interrupt unhealthy cycles:

1. Slow down and reflect
2. Acknowledge your reality (facts vs. fear-based stories)
3. Navigate with intention (anchor decisions in your values)
4. Evaluate and adapt (continuous, flexible adjustments)

“Because I have ADHD, I’m always going to have to pivot or edit a bit … I had to develop a very flexible model.” (16:21, Dr. Preston)

Grief, Burnout & Permission to Rest

• Eric’s Grieving Process: Shares openly about the recent loss of his father and grandmother, describing an ongoing journey through fog, pain, and the importance of not judging oneself.

  “Even when it just sucks, sometimes you gotta sit in the suck.” (20:55, Eric Tivers)

• Connection to Burnout: Both Eric and Dr. Preston discuss how ignoring or “hustling through” hard emotions leads to burnout and why being with discomfort is part of healing.
• Radical Acceptance: Dr. Preston reframes grief not as an inconvenience, but as “the core of life,” something that re-centers us on what matters.

  “Grief is the core of life. So maybe grief is the universe tugging at us and bringing us back to the core of who we are.” (22:57, Dr. Preston)

The “Support Squad” & Community for Neurodivergent Adults

• Solitude vs. Isolation: It’s critical to distinguish between healthy solitude and harmful isolation.
• Building Your Squad: Encouragement to cultivate a circle of support—even if small. This may be deep friends or professional supports, depending on need and context.

  “No matter who you are, even if you’re the introvertiest of introverts, it’s the idea of building the squad that you need … sometimes it’s hard to be everything to ourselves.” (25:47, Dr. Preston)

• Parallel Play & Unconditional Support: Reflections on the healing power of simply “being with” each other, without agenda or shame, even in silence or casual activities.

Intersectionality: Black Women & Neurodivergence

• Unique Presentation of ADHD/Autism: Dr. Preston shares how masking, cultural expectations, and survival strategies affect diagnosis and acceptance.

  “A lot of the hallmarks of autism and ADHD were conditioned out of us at an early age as a matter of survival … So that’s a good example.” (28:56, Dr. Preston)

• Community and Representation: Addresses how mental health stigma, lack of tailored resources, and professional bias are larger barriers for Black neurodivergent women.

Embodying Imperfection & Authenticity

• Letting Go of Performative Productivity: Both speakers underscore the liberation and necessity of dropping the mask of “having it together,” especially as coaches, educators, and public voices.
• Vulnerability as Leadership: Sharing real, messy struggles rather than just “success stories” makes space for others to be authentic and seek support.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Internalizing Hustle:

  “I internalize the hustle as my method to success. So I feel safer embracing it than I do embracing rest.” (17:16, Dr. Preston)

• On Shame and Wellness:

  “May I share something at impromptu? … There were so many days when I wanted to say those words and they would not come out … I want my readers to know and take my mask off and say, me, too, babe. Me too.” (35:43, Dr. Preston)

• On Needing Community:

  “Sometimes it’s hard to be everything to ourselves.” (27:24, Dr. Preston)

• On Permission to Rest:

  “There are some things that I end up letting go … you know what? I am a human being. This is a hyper productive society. You guys have lost your minds.” (09:08, Dr. Preston)

• On Moving Through Grief:

  “My brain doesn’t feel right … even when it just sucks, sometimes you gotta sit in the suck.” (20:55, Eric Tivers)

• On Black Women and Neurodivergence:

  “You would not know it that I’m standing underneath the table with my hands right now because I got used to at an early age unconsciously hiding my stims.” (28:56, Dr. Preston)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• 00:00-01:07 – Dr. Preston reads her Shame Free Wellness Manifesto (later revisited at 34:20)
• 06:07 – Dr. Preston on her impetus for the book
• 13:41 – Redefining "flow" and making it accessible
• 15:21 – Introduction of the SANE model, detailed explanation
• 17:16 – Dr. Preston’s most resonant line: “I internalize the hustle … than I do embracing rest.”
• 21:07-23:33 – Raw conversation on grief, grief as love, and radical acceptance
• 25:25 – Building and relying on a Support Squad
• 27:57 – Navigating intersectionality as a Black neurodivergent woman
• 34:20 – Reading of the Shame Free Wellness Manifesto
• 39:56 – Discussion on the importance of anchors and connection during difficult times
• 46:09 – Turning personal pain into a gift for others
• 47:18 – The myth of consistency and performative productivity

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Episode Tone and Closing Thoughts

The tone is intimate, vulnerable, and validating. Eric and Portia move seamlessly between laughter, insight, and deep emotion—demonstrating the messiness and strength of living a neurodivergent life. Both encourage listeners repeatedly to rest, seek support, embrace mess, and unlearn perfectionism.

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Resource Links

• Dr. Portia Preston’s Book: "Hustle, Flow or Let It Go"
• Dr. Portia Preston’s Website/Socials: [portiapreston.com | Instagram: @drportiapreston]
• ADHD reWired Coaching & Community: [ADHDreWired.com]
• Virtual Co-working Community: [adultstudyhall.com]

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode offers a lifeline for anyone trapped in cycles of burnout, shame or grief—especially for those with ADHD or who feel marginalized. Through powerful reframing and honest storytelling, Dr. Preston and Eric Tivers model how sustainable wellness grows not from striving and perfection, but from rest, honest reflection, and courageous connection.

Transcript

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Shame free wellness is for you. If you were taught that loving yourself was vain and selfish. You were taught to conform to others expectations until you lost sight of yourself. You were taught to express yourself in ways that were socially acceptable rather than healthy. You were taught to silence your intuition. You were taught to chase external validation. You were taught to value your body's appearance more than you were taught to meet its needs. You were taught to pursue status driven connections instead of genuine acceptance and love. You were taught to abandon your soul's calling if it wasn't profitable. You were taught to shrink yourself. You were taught to avoid failure even at the cost of your dreams. You were taught to pursue perfection. You were taught not to ask for help. It's time to unlearn all of that. This journey is for you if you sense something deeper within. If you're ready to take aligned, intentional action without hesitation. If you're prepared to push past doubt naysayers and overwhelm to live a fulfilling.

[Eric Tivers]

Life ADHD Rewired Episode 556Since 2014 this has been the podcast for ADHD adults who have really good intentions and a slightly wandering attention. I'm Eric Tivers. I'm a licensed clinical social worker by training and a coach by design. I'm your host and I'm Audiehd. ADHD Rewired is more than just a podcast. You can learn about our coaching and accountability groups, our virtual coworking community, and more all@adhd rewired.com we are wired for connection and you are not alone. Learn more about our offerings, including our quarterly live Q&As, additional resources for every episode, including links to any resources we mention on today's show. You can support us on Patreon, sign up for our email newsletter and more, all@adhd rewired.com and if this is your first time listening, welcome. Don't forget to hit, subscribe or follow on your podcast app so you never miss an episode. We know that starting is the hardest part, so let's get started. Before we get into today's episode, I wanted to share something personal. My dad recently passed away. It's been a really hard few weeks and then as you might be able to hear my voice right now. On top of that, I got sick last week. 30 years ago when I was just 14. My dad had a brain aneurysm in his brain stem which left him with many impairing disabilities and maybe this is the result of him being a lifelong die hard Cubs fan. But my dad never gave up hope after 30 years of fighting all kinds of life challenges, his body was finally done fighting. My dad taught me so much about resilience as well as the importance of learning how to adapt to curveballs. Life as a way of throwing at us now. It's been a lot to carry and if you've listened to recent episodes, I also shared that 4 months prior my grandmother passed away and I wanted to share this with you here because this show has always been about being real. Not just about adhd, but about life too. And speaking of life, I also want to thank everyone who filled out the survey I mentioned on the last episode about we were trying to get a evening ball group going a couple weeks that Kristen Martz would be running, and I really do appreciate those of you who took the time to respond to that. With everything that's happened, with losing my dad, with them getting sick last week, I decided I need to put that idea on pause for now. And we're just going to stick with the original plan, which is that we're going to kick off our next fall coaching groups on October 23rd. So if you're thinking about joining us, if you've been thinking about joining us September 25th at 1pm Central. That's 11am Pacific, 2 Eastern. And you'll be rewarded for not waiting until the last minute with our special kickoff event discount. All right, more info at the break. And really thank you for listening and for being a part of this community. It really, really means a lot to me right now. Thank you. Welcome back to another episode of ADHD Rewired. I am very happy to welcome back to the show Dr. Portia Preston. Portia is an author, speaker and executive coach dedicated to helping overwhelmed individuals and organizations sustain impact. Her groundbreaking book, Hustle Flow or Let It Go champions an inclusive path to wellness built on transformative mindset and culture shifts that foster connection, safety and common humanity while combating shame. Okay, so. Well, this is exciting because if you heard that previous episode, I shared that Portia and I met at the CHAT conference last year and kind of became fast friends. And I did a pre read of the book.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Oh my goodness, you did a holistic review of the book. It was amazing.

[Eric Tivers]

Doing that was actually amazing to be able to get to know you and your story and what you were putting forward in this book, I think is such an important topic. Especially I've been talking a lot on the podcast over the last year or so about the impacts of burnout and that's been a big part of your story as well as My story. And so I think this is a really. In this sort of age of attempts at hyper productivity and hustle culture and also burnout and all the mental health challenges that come along with that, I think this is such a timely and extremely important book.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

[Eric Tivers]

So what, what was your sort of impetus for. For writing this book?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Well, I wanted to find my own way out. I felt stuck as someone who was always trying to either stay up to date and just do everything I could and pump and stay in the rhythm of the hustle, or I was trying to recover from it and slow down, but never really able to sustain that. And I realized that somewhere I needed to find permission to have a more sustainable rhythm that would show up at the parts of my life that no one really seemed to talk about. Like, what about when I can't stop going, I want to want to stop. Or what about the times where I want to want to do something, but I'm not motivated? And mostly because I felt a lot of shame in both my personal and professional life constantly, and so did my clients. But we needed a safe place to talk about it and how it affected every aspect of our lives.

[Eric Tivers]

I think I read this back in. What was it like? Around the new year?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I think it was, yes.

[Eric Tivers]

All right, so between that time until we're recording this end of August here, how's that journey been? Can I only imagine it's been a wild ride?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

It has. I think that that was the time where I started to get a bit more confident. I had been through the really hard push of getting the first draft out. And so I would say in the four months after that, I did a lot of refining and it was borderline excessive, but it was, you know, my hyper fixation in its crowning glory. And so I would just toil with these chapters and just try to make the words sing and pop. And I was really looking for a very calm, you know, succinct way to bring the principles together. And I think we really got there. We developed some things that you hadn't seen at the time, such as the SANE cycle, which is in chapter eight. And it's just like this very easy four step process that you can do to kind of catch yourself at any time. And I will tell you, I remember finishing the acknowledgments at 4:00 clock in the morning in April, actually probably a week or two after you and I spoke. And I was going to a conference that day and I thought, oh, I'll sleep in and then I'll go a little later. I woke up three hours later. So I show up at this conference and I'm like, I'm so exhausted. But I'm so happy because it's finally done. And since then, learning a lot of the book marketing and promotion over the summer, it's not an easy journey at all. Been very busy, which is what I want it to be. I'm working with the publicist now to get the word out and also returning back to full time being associate professor and having like 160 students. And it's a wild ride right now. Very much just like.

[Eric Tivers]

So what I'm most curious about is. So you wrote this book. They really about sort of like how do we get a healthier balance on productivity and our hustle without burning out and launching a book. While you're also have this other like how are you sort of wrestling with some of this? Cause I'm sure there are times where you're like, I am not doing what I wrote about.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Well, you know, that's the funny thing is actually reassuring me. And it's going you are. Because I absolutely want it to be. I was calling it the soft book launch. And what I'm learning is I need a book launch that is almost a respite from my daily life. So when I do gather with people to talk about the book, those are my breathing moments. When I'm talking to people in community, like that is what actually feeds me. And I haven't done a lot of the traditional, more aggressive forms of marketing because every time I try to get online to share those things, they just don't feel authentic for me. And so the hustle is very much where I found myself. And it is hard, but it's also sacred because I'm realizing, wow, we are all in this mess together. And I want some of the aspects of my life, but not everything that comes with it. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. And I have moments where the to do list is never going to end. And so I have to right ever. So I have to make the choice. I'm going to allow myself to have some flow right now because I need me more than any of these other people do. And there are some things that I end up letting go. Not even intentionally, but it's just like, you know what? I am a human being. This is a hyper predictive society. You guys have lost your minds. So there's a lot of that going on. But I think I'm actually grateful to the Book launch in a way, because it's forcing me to be incredibly honest about what is and isn't working. And so that's a humbling realization, but it honestly couldn't be better. I think the last thing that people need to hear is someone with perfect balance talking to them about how to deal with their burnout.

[Eric Tivers]

Do you think in some ways you wrote the book that you kind of needed for yourself?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Oh, 1,000%. I'm using all of this as a vehicle to help myself. It's a long con. I was really struggling. I had gone through a hard depression. I lost hope and I needed to know what was my blueprint that was gonna help me not get there again, what was gonna help me crawl out if I did. So. Yeah.

[Eric Tivers]

So I wanna. Maybe we could define just a couple things here. So breaking down sort of each component of the title of your book first. So yeah. When you say hustle, what do you mean?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Whatever is unsustainable, whatever is having a negative impact on what you value most. So it could be practices in your life. It also could be a lack of resources, a lack of support at the societal level. Whatever's making you have to over function, even if you feel like you want to, if it's having a negative impact, that's the hustle.

[Eric Tivers]

That is such a different definition of than what I kind of thought when I think of hustle.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah.

[Eric Tivers]

Okay.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I really wanted to give context to the individual who was hustling, you know, so it's.

[Eric Tivers]

So you're not saying like don't sprint, don't have periods of high intensity productivity, even if you're intentionally off balance for a period of time, you're not saying that it's about over functioning and going beyond your capacity.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah. And honestly, I'm allowing it to be both. This is not an anti hustle book. I felt like people needed that. So something that's not going to judge them, but it's going to say what is the impact? So if your hustle is working for you and it is working for your family and you're doing well, I am not here to change that, but I am here to help you understand what are the warning signs when the hustle starts to get unhealthy and how can we pour in flow so that it is sustainable, but once it becomes unsustainable, that's the unhealthy hustle.

[Eric Tivers]

So then that brings us to the next part. What is flow in your definition for this book?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Right. Because the traditional sense is, oh, you get lost in this Activity, you're absorbed, and then you lose track of time. It's all about having this optimal level of challenge. And I think that's a beautiful definition of flow. But it always bugged me that it was so rarely there. And so what I needed was an idea of flow that would meet me exactly where I am. And for example, this morning, I had a lot going on. I had fasting labs, so I wasn't even able to eat until 11. And I needed to kind of turn things around quickly. And I'm going through all the steps of what I think I need to do, and I sit down and my body is just like, meditate. Just right here, meditate. And about three minutes in, I started to smile, and I'm like, wow, I forgot it was this simple. So my point is that you shouldn't have to leave the hustle to find flow. But ultimately you want to have a menu, a body of practices that are relevant for you, practical. You enjoy them and they meet you where you are and they help to replenish you.

[Eric Tivers]

So when you say flow, what you're saying is creating a life that is nourishing, that is sustainable, that is. That works for you.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Correct? Yeah, that's it.

[Eric Tivers]

I. In my coaching groups, I often talk about the whole idea of joyful success. Not just success, but joyful success often requires our willingness to. To bend the world to us.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Oof. Wow. That's a tall order. But it sounds really good because it.

[Eric Tivers]

You know, it's like, yeah, we can be successful by bending to the world, but like, that's. To me, that's hustle. Right. And then what is when you say, or let it go? What. What do you mean?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah, well, the first thing I want to remind people is that there's a question mark there for a reason, and it's because so hard, so hard to let go of things or let it go. Right? It's like. And so there's some things that I want to acknowledge are under our control, and it's easy for us to let it go, but then on a random Tuesday, it's really, really hard, or we don't really have control. It's more difficult or complex to get out of it. And so I want them to think first and foremost of let it go as what are the elements of the hustle that I can let go of to find more flow? And we can deal with some of the bigger things, but you gotta have a good foundation for that. It took me years to build up some of the healthy boundaries that I have now and every once in a while they get tested. Just to remind me, hey, you've got to make sure you reinforce this. So let it go is I want to acknowledge how hard that is. It is definitely part of the formula, but it's not something that we can hustle through.

[Eric Tivers]

And then you said you added, since I saw the book, this sane model.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yes.

[Eric Tivers]

Spell that out for us.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Sure. So this is in chapter eight. It's part of creating your blueprint for how you're going to apply this to your daily life. And the S stands for slow down and reflect. So you realize that you're kind of stuck, you're overwhelmed, you're feeling triggered and you just slow down for a moment to just kind of take stock of where you are. And then the A acknowledge your reality. This is where I have to remind myself of what is true, what is factual, and then what are some things that perhaps my fear is layering onto this. I'm overthinking something. I'm dwelling on a worst case scenario. If I acknowledge reality, it doesn't mean that I have to love it, but at least I understand. Okay. I don't need to have expectations of something that I have no control over. This is just what it is. The third step, N is for navigate with intention. This is where you anchor in your values and what matters to you most. And I chose this because sometimes I don't know where to go and what decisions to make. But reminding myself of my core values really helps to make that clear, even if it's just identifying the first step. We're looking to have a process that is slow and small enough to help you build momentum. But if we just kind of get in there and say we have to make this outcome happen, a lot of the times we'll shut down. So that's the third step. And then E is for evaluate and adaptation. Because everything that I come up with because I have adhd, I'm always going to have to pivot or edit a bit because my brain, if it's not just right, it's not going to do it. So I felt really reluctant about developing a system that even I wouldn't co sign by the time the book got published. So I had to develop a very flexible model.

[Eric Tivers]

Okay, that's. I really like that a lot.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Thank you.

[Eric Tivers]

What was your favorite part of the book? What do you like for when you kind of sit with it now? What's the part that goes, oh, so glad that the way this came out.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I have a lot of those parts. The first one I can recite by heart because so many people have reflected it back to me. It says, I internalize the hustle as my method to success. So I feel safer embracing it than I do embracing rest. And a lot of people see that line and they just go, that is me.

[Eric Tivers]

I just got goosebumps from just hearing you say that.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Thank you. It's a really good one.

[Eric Tivers]

My brain's kind of pinballing at the moment, so I'm just, I'm just watching where my thoughts are going and trying to decide which one I want to follow.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

We, we get to take a break here.

[Eric Tivers]

Okay, let's do that. Let's take a quick break and we will be right back. Support for ADHD rewired comes from our internationally recognized, award winning intensive online coaching and account groups. Since 2014, over 1200 people just like you have joined our coaching groups because they wanted more than tips and tricks. They wanted structure, skills, a community where they felt understood, and ongoing support. Our fall season kicks off with our registration event on September 25th at 1pm Central. And if you're there, you can save up to $400 on enrollment. We'll also be having additional registration events on October 3rd and October 9th. But if you want that big savings, September 25th is the day to be there. Pre registration only takes about 20 to 30 minutes and it's the first step to joining us. So if you've been thinking about getting the support that you actually need to put your good intentions into action, don't wait. Fall sessions start October 23rd. Join our interest list today at coaching Rewired.com to get access to pre registration. That's coaching Rewired.com before we hit record, we were kind of, it had been a minute since we had kind of caught up and I think we, we both have had some stuff in our lives that have been kind of going on. And you were like super sweet the other day when you messaged me and like, we don't have to do this right now, but I really wanted to share with listeners that two weeks ago today my dad passed away. And it's. To say that it's been challenging would be an understatement. I mean, it's been because in a lot of ways I've been. My dad had a brain injury 30 years ago and in a lot of ways, having kind of grieving for 30 years and because he had so many things that have happened throughout his, throughout this time that honestly should have killed him, I kind of thought he would never die. He's like things that he bounced back from somehow. Like, my dad has fallen out of more than one moving vehicle before. Yes. So what's been interesting, anyone who's gone through any kind of grief, it's. It kind of feels like you're moving through this thick, dense fog with these waves that come and just crash over you that you don't really know when it's going to happen. And I think part of what I've noticed about my own response to my grief now, which I think is probably significantly different, if this even happened two or three years ago, is that I've been sitting with it, not judging it, not being mad about it, just like acknowledging like this hurts and my brain doesn't feel right and like. And because I think that my sort of natural inclination would be to think my way through it. Wrap it up. Let's get on with life that has not served me. That's something that I've really realized is that even when it's uncomfortable, even when it just sucks, sometimes you gotta sit in the suck.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah. And I think you have to build up enough safety just to. So that's probably something that has changed over the years, is you feel more. You feel safe enough with yourself to be able to sit there without abandoning yourself.

[Eric Tivers]

And I think that's coming out of my own burnout. I think part of me is so highly motivated to not experience that again. And I feel that I, like there is. I think my just intuition was saying, like, sit with this because if you don't, you're just going to be re engaging. And the hustle that got you to be to that point of burnout.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah.

[Eric Tivers]

And I think I just made that connection.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I'm so proud of you. Thank you for that. I say that grief is love with the letters rearranged because it is a different relationship with the person. And I feel like there's parts of my heart that have forgotten to bring breathe. I mean, your heart doesn't breathe, but you know what I mean? It's like everything is just jumbled. And life doesn't look the same, people don't look the same, food doesn't taste the same. And to allow that radical shift in your life is incredibly brave. And no one is left without marks from that. I just think that we're in a society where people don't feel. Feel safe acknowledging that. And so they tend to build some kind of thick skin over it or some coping practice, whether it's positive or negative, that will allow them to kind of numb and distract from that pain because they think it's bad or inconvenient.

[Eric Tivers]

Well, it is inconvenient.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Okay, but think about this. Grief is inconvenient to what? Because grief is the core of life. So I think life is inconvenient to grief because grief is natural. So maybe grief is a part of the universe tugging at us and bringing us back to the core of who we are. And it is saying, no, you have a connection that has been radically shifted, and it is okay for you to feel that. And I'm going to call a timeout for you in life in whatever way I can to make sure that you allow yourself to go through that cycle.

[Eric Tivers]

It's interesting, too. I definitely know that I have this tendency to retreat into myself when I'm dealing with heavy stuff. I'll always say, reach out, reach out, reach out. And I'm like, as for extroverts, I retreat into myself. But what was interesting is I was finding with my own family, I have some strained relationships. So the grieving process with my family was like, there's this added element of different challenges with that because of some strained relationships that I have in my family. And I found myself so wanting to be with. I don't want to say wanting to be with my family or wanting to be with the idea of family. But then I started reaching out to some friends, including some friends that I don't talk to that often. And I had. At my dad's service, I had one of my childhood friends, kids came to the service, and I hadn't seen him in probably five, six years at least. And there was. I just found. There was just something that was so. I was just so touched by that that, like, I've been feeling more of this call to connection. And it's been really helpful, too, because there's been, with some of my family members has required this sort of like, superhuman ability to let some things go.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah, I think it's really important to stay connected to yourself for that reason. When you're having to practice patience on a high level and staying composed when it's the last thing you feel like you have the capacity to do, that's exactly when you need other people that are going to step in and let you be human and let you be yourself. So I'm really proud of you. I think that you did honor to the chapter seven of my book that talks about the importance of having a support squad and building it so that when you go through something like this, you have those connections to tap into.

[Eric Tivers]

Let's let's talk a little bit about the Support Squad, because I think that is such a. An important idea, especially for neurodivergent people who you don't have to explain yourself to the group chat that we have where we kind of forget about it for a few weeks and then we kind of jump back in. It's like there's no shame there at all. It's receptive, loving, supportive. Yeah, talk about that.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Sure. So the Support Squad, you know, is obviously just reinforcing this idea that there's a big difference between solitude and isolation. And solitude is okay. Solitude is healthy, but isolation can be very harmful. And so no matter who you are, even if you're like the introvertiest of introverts, it's the idea of building the squad that you need. So maybe it's just one or two people for you. For some people, there's layers. And so the top tier of the Support Squad are the people that you're really doing life with. These are your rocks. The people you know you can count on, the people that are going to help pull in perspective and help you to breathe. And I think that our friendship is a good demonstration of that because we've walked through some of the same emotional landscapes, and so we're able to speak to each other and say, when you feel this emotion, it is okay to talk about that with me. And what that does is it takes away this idea that we're somehow being a burden or that we're too busy. And there's been times where you and I, we've nourished our friendship, which strength is the foundation of the Support Squad, without even having to talk, because you'll play your piano and I'll just sit there for a few minutes. And so I think the beautiful thing about the Support Squad is that I'm not describing a formula. It is a very one size fits all journey. And if you don't have friends like this, then it maybe it's the professionals that you need to reach out to. And it acknowledges the complexity of not always having access to the resources you need. But bottom line, introverts, extroverts, we all need some measure of community because sometimes it's hard to be everything to ourselves.

[Eric Tivers]

I was just feeling the sort of fondness of that experience of kind of that parallel play. You're just kind of hanging out.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I'm playing piano, I get a free concert.

[Eric Tivers]

Talk a little bit about as. Obviously this is a podcast, so people may not know that you're also a black woman. Talk about that part of writing self help book. I know there's a lot more kind of stigma around mental health type things in the black community. We'll talk about that journey for you.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yes, it has been very interesting. I. When I was first diagnosed with autism, adhd, I had a doctor look at me and say, I know what autism looks like and that is not it. And I thought, wow, now I have to get a new doctor. This is fun. And it wasn't that she wasn't a great doctor. I think that the way it shows up in a black woman is very different. And I don't think the world is really prepared for that. One thing that I've come to realize is a lot of the hallmarks of autism and ADHD were conditioned out of us at an early age as a matter of survival. Historically, we have had to operate within fine lines because we're always under an IOP observation. And so all of my stems, for example, you would not know it that I'm standing underneath the table with my hands right now because I got used to at an early age unconsciously hiding my stents. So that's a good example.

[Eric Tivers]

Yeah.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

So if someone were to ask, are you hand flapping? I. What? What is hand flapping? But am I doing this for people who can't see because it's a podcast? I'm like gripping both of my my hands back and forth because it helps me to regulate. But I think a lot of us have not been given the time and space to even consider it for ourselves, and we get a lot of backlash. So it's been really important for me to find community with other people who are willing to imagine that an intersectional lens for neurodivergence is far more expansive and that the science has not caught up to that yet.

[Eric Tivers]

What do you think are some of the key differences for you from a white person with a light person without adhd?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Well, some of the things that people have told me are common is playing with our hair. For some reason, a lot of black women with adhd, we have locs, and so we're constantly like, twirling our locs or braids. Music. The echolalia shows up differently, at least for me. I couldn't think of a phrase I would sing over and over again. But if you ask me, did I know the words to almost every single song I heard growing up and I could recognize it in an instant? Absolutely. I think a lot of my stems were internal things like I still know a random license plate I memorized when I was nine years old. So. So, yeah, I think that's a little hard of a question because it's a little bit unconscious, even to me. Dr. Judith Joseph, who wrote High Functioning Depression, talks about how depression shows up very differently in a lot of black women. And of course, this is not to stereotype all black women, but there are a great many deal of us that will not crawl up into a hole and stop functioning. Instead, we keep showing up for everyone because we absolutely cannot stop. But under the surface, there's like, this. For me, at least, I would say, like this gnawing emptiness and this knowing that I was not okay. And so that might show up as irritability. And people think that they're. That you're upset with them. And it's really like, I can't cope with anything, and all I can do is do so. I think that we are frequently misunderstood when I am trying to convey things appropriately. You know, word choice is really big for people with autism. We want you to understand what we say. I felt for a long time that I came across as being perceived as authoritative. I, in the 10th grade, had a chemistry teacher write a recommendation for me, and he wrote, portia is cushy but never rude. And my mom's like, how do you write that for a 10th grader to get into a science program? But it says a lot. I mean, I was probably. I was really young for my school grade, so maybe I was 14. So imagine if I was perceived that way by a white male at 14.

[Eric Tivers]

What if I was thinking that, like, if you. The same thing were occurring and it was a guy, like, be a leader. Yeah. Assertive. A leader. Yeah. Like, it's.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah. And a lot of times people don't really understand their own biases, and so they don't perceive their reactions to you, and you just end up being really in your head and constantly trying to anticipate people's reactions and so maybe coming across as overly calm and very soothing and mild mannered. And then it's like, ooh, you just take such good care of everyone. Well, yeah, that's kind of a lane that I chose. But you may not know that. You might just think that's your personality.

[Eric Tivers]

What have you been getting so far as far as people who have been reading your book giving you feedback about it? What have you been hearing?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Sure. So the first five pages, a lot of people end up in tears. And I don't say that to scare anybody away, but I start off the book talking about embracing my own messy desk and how it's keeping me from my process because I wanted the reader to know early on that I'm not what I might appear to be from my degrees. I'm not this really practice points person. Even though ironically I get on stages and I look exactly that way. There's like a roaring tumbleweed rodeo going on underneath always in my head. And I wanted to make that clear. And so I think in the first couple of pages it kind of gets to the core of what people were wishing people would say. No matter how my life looks on the outside, this is really hard. And so I had someone the other day, I had handed it to her in a Pilates studio and she started reading it and three pages in she's like, I am crying. I said, well that's a good sign that you're my target reader. If you're not crying by page 5, this may not be the book for you. So the letter to the reader gets a lot of people going. Yeah, I know. I told you that I grabbed a copy of the book but then my ADHD forgot.

[Eric Tivers]

By the way, have you tried ADHD Rewired's Virtual co Working Body Doubling Community. We offer hosted sessions with structured check ins almost every day in a 24.7quiet co working Zoom room where you can often find me working. It's only 1989amonth or save on our annual plans for only 150 for the year. That's a 43% savings. Come cowork and body double with us. Try it risk [e-mail] that's adultstudyhall.com and we are back. Instead of reading the intro you're going to be reading what part of it?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

The Shame Free Wellness manifesto on page 15. Okay. Shame free Wellness is for you. If you were taught that loving yourself was vain and selfish. You were taught to conform to others expectations until you lost sight of yourself. You were taught to express yourself in ways that were socially acceptable rather than healthy. You were taught to silence your intuition. You were taught to chase external validation. You were taught to value your body's appearance more than you were taught to meet its needs. You were taught to pursue status driven connections instead of genuine acceptance and love. You were taught to abandon your soul's calling if it wasn't profitable. You were taught to shrink yourself. You were taught to avoid failure even at the cost of your dreams. You were taught to pursue perfection. You were taught not to ask for help. It's time to unlearn all of that. This journey is for you. If you sense something deeper within. If you're ready to take aligned, intentional action without hesitation, if you're prepared to push past doubt, naysayers, and overwhelm to live a fulfilling life.

[Eric Tivers]

Yeah, that resonates.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

It's what I need it for me today.

[Eric Tivers]

Oh, there's so much there.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

May I share something at impromptu?

[Eric Tivers]

Yeah.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I just want people to know how incredibly hard this journey was for someone who now understands the cognitive processing difficulties that I have. There were so many days where I wanted to say those words, and they would not come out in order. They did not sound that beautiful. And there were years of agony where I needed a lot of assistance to make the book that I have today. And I want to acknowledge that because my life is still not easy and Eric is having a mountain of grace for me today. I feel like a hot mess. I have a lot on my plate right now, and I know that I'm coming across as none of that. So I just want my readers to know and take my mask off and say, me, too, babe. Me too.

[Eric Tivers]

I'm with you there, like, big time. What was that analogy, I think you said before we hit record about.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Oh, the pillow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like I just realized there's. There's times in life where I'm going to end up at rock bottom, so I've learned to bring a pillow, and that is having a friend and a soft place to land, because sometimes we just need to rest here before we continue the climb out.

[Eric Tivers]

So important. It's so, like. And especially with just everything that's happening in the world, I feel this, like, call to rest. It feels urgent. It's. It feels almost like an emergency, you know, because I guess you're all just barely hanging on, if we even are hanging on.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah, I think barely is probably where most of us are. And I want to acknowledge that. Part of what I've hated about content creation is this expectation that, like, you look right into the camera. And I've been trying to do that this entire time, and I was really proud of myself. And now I'm exhausted doing it, and I'm like, wait a minute. You're literally on a podcast talking about autism, adhd. And if you're not free not to make eye contact here, where are you?

[Eric Tivers]

Well, it's funny, when you're talking about Black women will fidget with their stem.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

With their.

[Eric Tivers]

Yeah, you do your sitting here twisting hair, a beard the entire time. A week or so ago, when my sisters and I were visiting my dad, my sister Julie goes Could you even stop twisting your beard if you tried? And I was like, not for long.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Do you also roll your tongue?

[Eric Tivers]

Um, no, but I push my tongue up against the roof of my mouth.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah, I count that.

[Eric Tivers]

Okay.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I count that. It's literally a stem.

[Eric Tivers]

Oh. And I also do this thing with. I don't know what to call it, where my tongue hits, like, a speed bump in the bottom mouth and just. Oh, man. I didn't even risk. It's funny when you have these. I've always done that, and I never.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Even realized I did that for my own pleasure. I totally wanted to surprise you with another stim you didn't know about, so sorry.

[Eric Tivers]

Oh, man.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah. But, you know, being someone who lives whole lives not realizing they're autistic. I know we talked about this in the last episode. The realization not only that we do have these things and that we can. Is a long road because we feel like we're taking away from someone by allowing ourselves to be more complex. I think there's a real expectation that we fit into neat narratives. And so to say that we're messy, it's like, no, you don't get to say that because you're getting up and doing the things and people don't know. Context shifting. Like, part of the reason I actually got it together today is because I had the podcast and I knew I was going to be on camera. But I think it's important that we talk about the complexity of our struggles so that other people that are really struggling don't feel like it's not valid.

[Eric Tivers]

Yeah. I'm actually glad that you just shared that. When you messaged me the other day, and we were like, are you sure you want to do this, knowing that I'm in my grief? There was, like, when I was looking at my. My week. Oh, I think I was on Sunday, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna be talking to Portia. And for me, that was the anchor of kind of getting my. Trying to stick my brain a little bit out of the fog. And so I was like, no, don't. Don't cancel this time. You're like, you're my anchor right now.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Okay. I love that you said that. I'm so happy I could be that for you. And I think you kind of anchored my month because it was like, in two weeks, I gotta talk to Eric. But I literally need anchors constantly throughout the day because it's like if. If someone isn't depending on you or expecting something of you. I've had times where I Would just sit and be depressed for an entire summer and it's because I didn't have enough to do.

[Eric Tivers]

Yes.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

So that under stimulation is a beast.

[Eric Tivers]

Yes, I've been there. It's so funny trying to find. It's like I always think about how human behavior is like a pendulum. Like when we're trying to improve things in our lives, we often. It's kind of like a pendulum. We'll swing far one direction and then we kind of swing back. And when I was and I kind of first started doing the coaching groups and those cycles of that I had given myself initially kind of longer breaks in between seasons. And then after a bunch of seasons where I had maybe a five or six week break in between a ten week group, I was, I would have at least two weeks where I was literally like laying on the floor of my office, like not getting anything done and not knowing what to do with myself and staying super late for no particular reason.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Like, yeah, because you can't move. Yeah, you literally cannot move. Okay, so let's talk about places. I call it context shifting. Okay, so I used to go to the gym and I would do the workout and then I would sit in the car at the gym or I drive home from the gym, but I couldn't get out of the gym and go into the house and shower. Or I'd go into the house but I couldn't shower. My favorite these days is just to sit at the wall and just be like, yeah, I know I'm supposed to do this right now, but I can't because I'm supposed to. And that triggers my oppositional defiance.

[Eric Tivers]

That has been one of my life long things. Oh my gosh. I mean, this last week I was like literally out of food. I was like, all right, this is the third night in a row where I literally had toast for dinner. Like, I need actual food. So I went to Costco. I had to talk myself into every aisle I went down. I was just like, okay, I can just do one more aisle. And it was just hard. But that context shifting wasn't even just going to the store and getting out of the house because I hadn't left the house for several days. It was like literally context shifting aisle to aisle. It was hard.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Well, I want to shout out Dr. Raquel Martin on Instagram because she did a video. I saw it today and it's like one of the best videos I've ever seen because it was talking about the difference between discipline and capacity. And I think a lot of the times we are at super low capacity. And so we try to push through by demanding of ourselves. And that's what I mean. That's that moment where I realized this is not actually our fault. We're comparing ourselves to other people that have a lot of energy, or we're comparing ourselves to earlier versions of ourselves that had a lot of energy. And I know my. My husband, God bless him, because he has a will to, like, see me well and not starving, you know, and so this has been a tough week for him because I don't seem to have those shame. Like, I started feeling sick the night of the interview, and I was like, oh, this is not gonna be fun, because I. I know what that looks like.

[Eric Tivers]

Are you talking about the. The interview you did on your local Fox news channel?

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Thank you for that shout out. Yes. I had my first live TV news segment, and it was absolutely amazing. And yet by the time we were having dinner that night, I was ordering hot lemon water. And that's how my husband always knows. Okay, she's about to go for an energy dip. And it's also the first week of classes. So yesterday I had to go in and teach my students, and I'm just like, how do I help them see that they are my priority when I am barely hanging on? Right? And so somebody's like, well, why don't you sign your book? And I'm like, yeah, you're right. So I let them read the first chapter, and I was like, let's talk about shame free wellness as a foundation. So I'm. I'm literally writing to about. I know. And they're so good. I'm like, what is shame free wellness to you? And how do you hustle, flow, and let go? And I'm very confident that a lot of them, without even doing the reading, are developing these really boss answers. And it's so cool because I'm. I'm really, at this point in my career, passionate about finding the buttons that unlock my students, being themselves, not the perfectionist creativity they think they have to do to do well in a class, but, like, the, oh, my God, I can actually be me here, you know? And that seems to be happening.

[Eric Tivers]

I love that you did that. It actually reminds me of what I was sharing with you before we hit record about. I was talking with my administration about being kind of. So in my coaching groups, we have coming up a session where we talk about our legacy and where we really get clear about our mortality and the things we want to be doing. So we're living a more intentional Life. And I was thinking about this, like, I was taking a break from the Shiva, which is like the Jewish wake.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yes. Wait, wait, wait. Can you explain that for a moment? Because I think it's really beautiful and I know a lot of people won't know what that is, if that's okay with you.

[Eric Tivers]

It's the Jewish traditional mourning period after you lose a loved one. It sometimes goes for up to a week. I think there's other customs. Like some people would cover their mirrors for a year. You know, my family were not very religious, so we had. It was two days, and so I was taking a break and there was a lot of people in the house, so I was getting way overstimulated because we're in a small space, lots of conversations, and my brain doesn't filter any of it, so I can't. And so I went for a walk. And then I had this realization that this session was coming up. And at first I was terrified because how am I going to show up for. I remember I don't know how I'm going to do this session when this is so. I feel like I was crying every hour. Oh, my God, I'm falling apart here. And then I was sharing my concern with my admin to get some ideas of how I could tweak that particular session. And I'm very much of a verbal processor. And as I was talking, I think the thing I actually need to do is really lean into the thing that I'm afraid of.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah.

[Eric Tivers]

And I think by doing so is going to potentially be a profoundly powerful and meaningful, impactful session for my members. Knowing that I can do that, that's something that I can do. And in a sense, it's taking something that's lost and sad and turning it into a gift and into light. That feels good.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I'm so proud of you. It was courageous of you to do that. The last thing that we want to do is lean into what is hard. But I think you leaned into what you knew deep down inside was true. And I think there's something beautiful about the space that we're creating when we come on for these conversations. We've done some coaching offline, and I think we're getting to a point now where we're able to coach each other online in the presence of other people. And I think that's really nice. But I just want to celebrate that we're just being right now. We don't have some hyper huge agenda to take over the world. We're not going to call people into A big community. There's no agenda. We're just two hearts showing up, trying to find our way in the world. And I, I think that this world needs more of that right now.

[Eric Tivers]

Yeah. And just it's messy and beautiful at the same time.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah.

[Eric Tivers]

Right. Like, it's. And I. And I love what you did with your students too. I mean, I think that's. I'm regularly telling my, my group members, I'm like, I just want to make sure you don't think that I have all my shit together, because I don't.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Right.

[Eric Tivers]

It's like, it's the stuff that we're working on. Like, this is why we talk so much about resilience and.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah.

[Eric Tivers]

Like, it's not about being consistent. I think when we're being consistent, we are engaging in hustle, trying to be like ultra consistent. Right.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Because like, it's true. You know, that's where a lot of the shame in my wellness comes from. Because it's like, oh, well, you haven't done this in the past two hours. What's wrong with you? And it's like, how did you get so mean? Who hurt you? Oh, man, it's hard. And you can know all the tools, but that doesn't mean that you're actually able to embody it in the way that works for you. Because if you do, it's going to look different from everybody else and that has to be okay.

[Eric Tivers]

I think when we try to show up in our lives in ways that are performative for the sake of others, all we end up doing is hurting ourselves and those around us.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

You're so right. You want to come teach my class for me? Like, you can do this.

[Eric Tivers]

I've kind of had a dream of being a college professor just because I think that's. Because I just think that sounds so cool.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Professor Terce. No, honestly, I can help make your dream come true. I would totally be happy to have a little segment for my students and you can still share it with the community, but it would be really cool for them.

[Eric Tivers]

That would be fun. I think this might be a good place to. To wrap it up. Where could people find your book? And if any other kind of channels or anything you want people to find yet, go ahead.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Okay. So Hustle Flow or Let It Go, A guide to shame free wellness that honors your reality and gives you life. It is available at all major retailers. You can also go to P O R T I A P R E S T o N. That's portiapreston.com and on all of your socials. I will be at Dr. Portia Preston. D R P O R T I A P R E S T O N. Thank you.

[Eric Tivers]

Awesome. And I do love that your Instagram stuff you've been putting out, it's super raw and I really like it.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

I think I'm finally finding my swing. I think I'm finally letting myself just be. It's cool. It's. I think behind the scenes is my thing now.

[Eric Tivers]

Your videos are. I'm supposed to be doing this. I can't get any of you. I love it.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Did you see about the podcast today?

[Eric Tivers]

No, I didn't.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Yeah, I did some IG stories. How am I going to go from fasting labs to being podcasts ready in two?

[Eric Tivers]

Oh, man. Well, Portia, thank you so much and big, big, big hugs and congratulations, and it's been a real honor being a part of this. You know, I got to meet you when you were sort of in the end process of your first draft and getting to see it come to light. So cool. Thank you for including me in your journey.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Thank you. I'm so honored to be here and I would love to be back soon. I'm just saying this has been fun.

[Eric Tivers]

I would absolutely not mind at all. Even our regular guests, that would be lovely.

[Dr. Portia Preston]

Okay, cool. Thanks.

[Eric Tivers]

All right. Thank you, and we'll catch you next time. Before we go, I just want to say thank you to Portia for showing up so real. And to you for listening while I'm caring a lot. Grief is a way of rearranging life. If you're in it, too, consider this your permission slip to rest and to ask for help. One tool from today that you can try right away is the second SANE model. As a reminder, SANE stands for slow down and reflect. Acknowledge your reality, navigate with intention, and evaluate and adjust. Even something as simple as pausing to acknowledge where you are and then taking the next small, intentional step can shift everything. And if you know it's time for more structure and community around your ADHD journey, that's exactly why I run our coaching and accountability groups. And our next season kicks off soon. It goes from October 23rd through December 18th. And you can find all the details at coaching Rewired.com I'm so grateful that you are here. Take good care of your brain, your heart, and love each other if you can. I'll see you next time.