Most Haunted House in America: The Amityville Horror

Summary

After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal Episode Summary: Most Haunted House in America: The Amityville Horror Release Date: November 28, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal," hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling delve deep into the infamous Amityville Horror story. They explore the thin line between reality and fiction, unraveling the historical events that led to one of America's most legendary haunted house tales. Joining them is Dr. Joseph Laycock, an Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Texas State University and an esteemed author on topics related to exorcism and demonic belief.

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The Genesis of the Amityville Horror

Anthony Delaney sets the stage by introducing the Amityville Horror as a unique case where historical fact intertwines with paranormal myth-making. He highlights how this story not only captivated the American psyche but also influenced popular culture, notably impacting the iconic horror film "The Exorcist."

Notable Quote:

Anthony Delaney [06:07]: "What is arguably the most haunted house in America. This haunted house story grew out of a violent, shocking mass murder."

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Unraveling the Murders

Dr. Joseph Laycock provides a detailed account of the tragic events that set the foundation for the Amityville Horror narrative. On December 18, 1975, Ronald DeFeo Jr. brutally murdered his entire family in their Long Island home. The lack of a clear motive and the surrounding circumstances left the community—and subsequently, the nation—seeking answers.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Joseph Laycock [10:24]: "The Lutz family really purchased the house. They really abandoned it. Lots of other details are implausible or unlikely or have been literally disproven."

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From Fact to Fiction: The Lutz Family's Experience

The Lutz family's subsequent move into the same house marked the beginning of the alleged hauntings. Laycock discusses the discrepancies between the real events and the sensationalized accounts that followed. While certain phenomena reported by the Lutzes, such as unexplained fly swarms and eerie reflections, have factual bases, many other claims appear exaggerated or fabricated to enhance the horror narrative.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Joseph Laycock [13:03]: "The children's shouts bounced happily off the walls as they ran around exploring their new home. But 28 days later, those same walls would supposedly bleed green slime."

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The Role of Popular Culture: Influence of "The Exorcist"

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how the release of "The Exorcist" in 1973 created a fertile ground for stories like the Amityville Horror to take root. The film's massive influence on American society’s perception of the paranormal and the supernatural helped shape the Lutzes' narrative, blending their real experiences with the cultural zeitgeist.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Joseph Laycock [25:23]: "The Exorcist... it was based on one of these [exorcisms]... people were just fascinated by it. They had lines going around the Block."

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The Hoax and Its Aftermath

Dr. Laycock reveals the intricate web of deceit orchestrated by the Lutz family and their attorney, William Weber. The motive behind perpetuating the haunting story was primarily financial, aiming to capitalize on the public's fascination with the supernatural. This manipulation led to widespread skepticism and legal battles, further entangling fact and fiction in the Amityville narrative.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Joseph Laycock [19:07]: "The hoax begins with William Weber, who is the attorney for Ron DeFeo... they come up with a plot where he is going to feed information about the murders to the Lutzes."

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Cultural Impact and Legacy

The episode culminates with an exploration of the lasting legacy of the Amityville Horror on American culture. Dr. Laycock explains how the story influenced religious practices, particularly within Pentecostal churches, and perpetuated beliefs in spiritual warfare and demonic presence in everyday life. The narrative also contributed to the normalization of ghost stories in mainstream media, solidifying the Amityville house as a cultural icon.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Joseph Laycock [33:14]: "The logic of spiritual warfare owes something to this movie and to this story."

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Conclusion

Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling, alongside Dr. Joseph Laycock, offer a nuanced examination of the Amityville Horror, shedding light on its origins, the interplay between reality and myth, and its profound impact on American societal beliefs. This episode serves as a crucial exploration of how a real tragedy was transformed into a legendary tale, influencing generations of horror enthusiasts and shaping cultural perceptions of the paranormal.

Notable Closing Quote:

Anthony Delaney [35:26]: "Next week we will be doing another ghost-busting exploration... thanks for listening."

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Key Takeaways

• Historical Context: The Amityville Horror story is rooted in the real murders committed by Ronald DeFeo Jr., but subsequent narratives introduced significant fictional elements.

• Influence of Media: The release and impact of "The Exorcist" played a pivotal role in shaping public perception and providing a template for the Lutzes' haunting claims.

• Motivations Behind the Hoax: Financial gain was a primary motivator for the Lutz family's perpetuation of the haunting story, leading to legal disputes and skepticism.

• Cultural Legacy: The Amityville Horror has left an indelible mark on American culture, influencing religious practices, popular media, and societal beliefs about the supernatural.

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For more insightful episodes exploring the dark and mysterious corners of history, subscribe to History Hit and join hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling on their next eerie journey.

Transcript

[Anthony Delaney]

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[Maddy Pelling]

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[Anthony Delaney]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Eva Longoria]

You ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like, what's the history behind bacon wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez. Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History is back. And this season we're taking an even bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history, seeing that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba and the pina colada from Puerto Rico. Listen to Hungry for history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maite Gomez Rejon]

Hi After Dark. My name is Sarah. I'm a graduate student at the University of Illinois at Chicago and I study history, which is why I love After Dark so, so, so much. I love how Maddie and Antony take these really scary, spooky, supernatural stories that we've all heard about and ground them historically. And I think that's just such an interesting part of the pod. And I really, I just love you guys so much. So I submitted an idea about the Amityville Horror House. I watched Amityville Horror as a young kid, too young to be watching it, and I just want to hear you guys dig into what happened and historicize this whole story. Thank you so much.

[Maddy Pelling]

On 18 December 1975, Kathy and George Lutz, with Kathy's three children from a previous marriage plus the family dog, moved into their new home. 112 Ocean Avenue, Amityville. The town of Amityville lies on the south shore of Long island where the sea breeze smells of salt and old money. The houses are colonial revivals with bone white clapboard facades with manicured lawns. The Lutzes new home at 112 Ocean Avenue seemed big in broad daylight, but loomed even larger by night. Two windows high up in its sloping roof looked out rather like eyes. George and Kathy had looked at more than 50 houses along the Long island shore before finding this one. It had a boathouse, a large yard and was being sold for only $80,000, furniture included. And they knew why the price was so low. Anyone who read the newspapers knew about the murders. But the Lutzes weren't superstitious and they knew a bargain when they saw one, even if the price was still twice their budget. The children's shouts bounced happily off the walls as they ran around exploring their new home. But 28 days later, those same walls would supposedly bleed green slime. Doors would be blasted off their hinges by so called demons. Nightmare eyes would wait at windows and the family would be chased from their home. Welcome to Amityville, home of America's most haunted house.

[Anthony Delaney]

Hello and welcome to After Dark. I'm Anthony.

[Maddy Pelling]

And I'm Maddie.

[Anthony Delaney]

And today we're looking at the history of what is arguably the most haunted house in America. This haunted house story grew out of a violent, shocking mass murder. A troubling blurring of the lines between real human horror and paranormal myth making. And it's one of those things where we can actually trace the history of a haunting, which is very rare when we come across these haunting stories. So that's why we thought it was one of the ones that was worth zoning in on. It's also a story that's got a surprising amount to do with the horror film the Exorcist. And this gets so easily overlooked, I think, but how that changed American society in the 1970s and sort of shaped people's ideas about the paranormal in profound ways. Our guest today to help us guide us through this story is Dr. Joseph Laycock, Associate professor of Religious Studies at Texas State University and author of some of the best named books I think I've come across in this podcast. Firstly, the Penguin Book of Exorcisms. And he has also co authored, amongst other things, of course, the Exorcist, Horror, Religion, and Demonic Belief. Joseph, thank you so much for joining us.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Oh, thanks so much for having me.

[Maddy Pelling]

We are so excited to have you here. Can I just say, the Penguin Book of Exorcism criticisms? Yes, please. Immediately, yes. Sounds incredible, Joseph. We're going to get into the, as Anthony says, the myth that's been built around this case and the actual history, the facts of it as well. I'm looking at a picture in front of me of a book titled the Amityville A True Story. It's a really lurid cover. It's got this wooden colonial house that's kind of glowing orange and there's sort of trees that almost fire surrounding it. There's a sort of devil's tail coming down, snaking down, and there's flies all over the COVID as well. It claims in the title itself to be a true story, but there's something about the marketing of this cultural product that suggests to me it might be a little bit more than that. So is this a case? And we'll get into the details of the case, but is this a case that's going to blur those lines between fact and fiction?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes, it does blur the lines between fact and fiction, because some of this.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

We know, really happened.

[Unknown Speaker]

The address is correct.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

The Lutz family really purchased the house. They really abandoned it. Lots of other details are implausible or unlikely or have been, you know, literally disproven. Skeptics have looked at, you know, weather.

[Unknown Speaker]

Reports that contradict Details in the. In the book, it was not dark.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And stormy that night and so forth.

[Unknown Speaker]

But the Amityville Horror is still sold in bookstores, often in the section on.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

You know, the occult or religion, and not with similar paperback horror novels.

[Anthony Delaney]

So the first thing I'd like to know is how big is the Amityville Horror House story in the American psyche?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, part of the American dream, particularly in the period after World War II.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Was to get a big house in.

[Unknown Speaker]

The suburbs for your family.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So I think a lot of what is appealing about this story to Americans.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is the idea of what if your.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Dream becomes a nightmare?

[Unknown Speaker]

And Stephen King, the horror author Stephen King recalls watching the Amityville Horror in.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Theaters and the audience was shouting things like, oh my goodness, think of the repair costs. So the horror wasn't really so much.

[Unknown Speaker]

The idea of there being a demonic.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Presence, as, you know, this is the collapse of all of your sort of middle class aspirations.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so it's sort of a consummate haunted house story.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And it's been parodied on shows like.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Simpsons and so forth ever since.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So it's, it's deep in the American psyche. I think even Americans who can't name the Amityville Horror or Long island, if.

[Unknown Speaker]

They see the image of a house.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

With two big eyes, like windows on the front, that's going to resonate for them.

[Maddy Pelling]

I love that. If it's been in the Simpsons, absolutely. It is enshrined in American culture. So we know we now have an impression of how big this case really is. It starts, as we mentioned, at the beginning with a real set of murders, an actual crime that takes place. So can you take us, Jo, into that moment of the murders and tell us the details of those and the resonance, I suppose, of them in the moment that they happened?

[Unknown Speaker]

Sure.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Well, the case originates with an actual mass murder event. Right. So there is actually a dark history to that house. Ronald DeFeo lived with his siblings and his parents and murdered all six of them with a. With a rifle. And it was unusual that the neighbors were not awakened by the shooting that happened around three in the morning. So DeFeo received six life sentences for this.

[Unknown Speaker]

And there was never really a satisfying motivation for the crime.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And it's very hard to tolerate a lack of meaning like that. So out of this kind of void, a truly senseless crime, it created an opportunity to create a new story. He first tried to claim that his sister had committed the crime, and then that a Mafia hitman was responsible and finally said, well, I did it, but.

[Unknown Speaker]

I was possessed by evil forces.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Right. But we also have to remember these crimes happened after the film the Exorcist came out at the end of 1973. That film created a massive demand for exorcism. People saw that film, they were told.

[Unknown Speaker]

It was based on a true story.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

They were fainting and running out of the theaters. So it was exactly the right moment in American history to make a claim like that. So I don't actually blame DeFeo for thinking that maybe that could work.

[Maddy Pelling]

And I think that's. That's the sort of key thing of this whole story, isn't it? It's that absolute melding together of popular culture and the reality that's happening. And also this belief in the supernatural, the paranormal all coming together, and fact and fiction absolutely blending. Let's move then to the Lutz. So we heard that the Lutz family buy this house. It's going cheap because these murders have taken place there. And this is only, I think, a couple of months after the Defeo trial has happened and this claim of possession has been made. So the Lutz move in, and everything is presumably cleared up and the house is clean and livable. At what point do they start to claim to experience the hauntings that follow? Is it soon after? Is there an active decision? What happens when they enter this house?

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Well, it's really hard to know that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Historically because there are conflicting reports.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So we can read the Amityville Horror by Jay Anson, which kind of gives.

[Unknown Speaker]

Us a step by step of.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

The first thing they notice are swarms of flies that they cannot eliminate. The children are seeing a sort of.

[Unknown Speaker]

Pig like creature with glowing eyes that they name Jody. Kathy Lutz looks in the mirror and.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Sees herself as this aged crone. And then she's back to normal.

[Unknown Speaker]

The walls are bleeding.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Some sort of mysterious substance.

[Unknown Speaker]

So some of these things have kind of the ring of truth to them.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

You know, there's a species of fly.

[Unknown Speaker]

Called cluster flies, for example, that could.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Have really been investing the house.

[Unknown Speaker]

Some of them were almost certainly sort.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Of made up by J. Anson to make a better story. And then you have some of the.

[Unknown Speaker]

Children who are now grown up who.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Insist these things really happened. You know, this was not a scam, this was not a made up. So it's difficult to decide, you know.

[Unknown Speaker]

Which version of the story is closest to the truth.

[Maddy Pelling]

So we have these events taking place, and I have a list of them in front of me. And I mean, some. Some are really quite laughable. Jo, you've named some of them. The pig did you say it was called Jodie the Pig? I love that.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's what the children named it.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Yes.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, what else would you name the ghostly pig? There are things here like Kathy, the mother's body levitating out of bed and being taken into a closet. We've got a marching band being heard in the house. What is that?

[Anthony Delaney]

Marching band in the house.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Right.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, I would be furious. I would sell the house at that point. They're prevented from leaving, they claim, because of a sudden hurricane in a power cut. I'm going to use that excuse when I'm late for recording sessions in the future. George, the stepfather says that he sees visions of a monstrous creature living in the house. So you've got all of these very varied and different elements going on. And I suppose the obvious question is, as you've alluded to there, Jo, you've got this seemingly perfect middle class, aspirational family moving into this aspirational middle class house. And there might be darker or more complex things going on behind closed doors in terms of those human relationships. And that's without a potential supernatural element being added in or the complication of belief in that. There's also the debt that they must have taken on, presumably to buy this house. We mentioned in the opening there, that it sold for $80,000, which is going quite cheaply for a house of this kind in this moment because of the murders. But they still have to take out considerable debt in order to buy this life that they want, that they aspire to. Is that too obvious a reason to try and make money off of this and to say that there's a haunting and are they trying to make money off this? Is that what those claims really speak to, that they want to commercialize the house in some way?

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Yeah, I think they absolutely wanted to make money off of this. I think they just realized even though we got a good deal, it doesn't mean we can actually afford this house. I don't think that they thought about property taxes. You know, George Lutz ran a construction.

[Unknown Speaker]

Company which can be very profitable, but.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

It can also have dry spells where you're not bringing much money.

[Unknown Speaker]

One of the sort of striking details.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Of the Amityville horror is George's brother has a wedding and George is supposed to pay the caterers. And he says, well, the demons stole.

[Unknown Speaker]

The cash that was supposed to be used to pay the caterers.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And this is one more way the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Demons are tormenting me. I can't help but think, did you pocket that? Right. And that's another few hundred dollars towards paying off the debt.

[Unknown Speaker]

I also spoke with Jerry Sulfon, who.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Worked for a psychical research group that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Was associated with Duke University.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And he said George Lutz was calling me literally every day because he wanted.

[Unknown Speaker]

An official certificate that his house was haunted.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And I said, that's not something that we do. I can't give you something like that. I can come out and see the.

[Unknown Speaker]

House if you want. Because he was driving up to visit.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Family in Boston, and he said that George Lutz was having a garage sale. And the story that George Lutz has always told is, I will never return to the house. The night we left, that was the last time I was ever there. We never, ever returned. And Jerry Sulfon said that that is just absolutely not true. Right. And one of the reasons that he.

[Unknown Speaker]

Came back was to try to get.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Some more money out of this. So all the evidence that I found does point to whatever else this was about. This was very much about money and that the Lutzes really did expect to have a nice windfall off of this haunted house story.

[Maddy Pelling]

So, Jo, we do know now that the whole Amityville horror story was a fabrication. Is this accepted in America now that it is a fabrication? Or does it has it molded into something different in that American imagination? Does it exist in a place where people are willing to maybe look at it as a true story, as the true inspiration behind some of the biggest popular culture moments of the 20th century?

[Unknown Speaker]

It's interesting to me because I think.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

That the kind of smoking gun that.

[Unknown Speaker]

We have, that this was a hoax, that this was done for financial reasons, was not a bigger story.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

But I'm not aware of hardly anyone.

[Unknown Speaker]

Unless they are a huge sort of.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Amityville horror buff who is aware that there was an element of trickery and deception involved here.

[Unknown Speaker]

I think that the narrative told in.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

The Amityville horror and in the movie adaptation and the 40 odd other titles kind of building on that story, just.

[Unknown Speaker]

Massively floods and overwhelms anything critical or.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Describing evidence of a hoax. So I think most Americans, it's not.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like they've heard there's a hoax and.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

They disagree with it or they disbelieve it.

[Unknown Speaker]

They've never heard that before.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And that's probably going to be the way that things are for some time.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, I hadn't heard of the hoax. I wasn't aware of the. The very blatant, when I was looking at the research for this episode, how blatant the hoax was and how admitted to a Certain extent, depending on who you're speaking to. The hoax was. So, Joe, could you talk us through the steps of that hoax?

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. So the hoax begins with William Weber.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Who'S the attorney for Ron DeFeo. And as an attorney, you know, there's not a lot you can do in.

[Unknown Speaker]

This case where the facts of the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Case are very clear that this person.

[Unknown Speaker]

Has killed their entire family. And so he is sort of angling.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

For an insanity defense with Ron DeFeo's.

[Unknown Speaker]

Claims that he was possessed by some.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Sort of evil force.

[Unknown Speaker]

And he somehow meets the Lutzes, who are sort of figuring out how they're.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Going to get out of the situation where they've bought too much house. And William Webber, this is his version.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of the story, is over several bottles.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Of wine, they come up with a plot where he is going to feed information about the murders to the Lutzes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Lutzes will use that to tell the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Story that the house is haunted. There really is an evil presence motivating.

[Unknown Speaker]

People to kill, just as Ron DeFeo claimed.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so William Weber, as a lawyer.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Draws up a contract and says, I have got a horror writer on deck, and we'll each get a cut of the proceeds and this author will write the book. And they agree to this. The Lutzes think about it a bit further, and they say, you know, we've already got all the information we're ever.

[Unknown Speaker]

Going to need about these cases.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

We don't really need to work with this lawyer anymore.

[Unknown Speaker]

Let's cut him out of the deal. And so they form their own contract.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

With Jay Anson and split the money.

[Unknown Speaker]

In a way that's more favorable to them.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

J. Anson goes on to write the Amityville Horror. Well, this other author that William Weber had picked, he actually puts an article out in Good Housekeeping with an early.

[Unknown Speaker]

Version of the story. And that's sort of the very beginning.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Of this claim that there is a haunted house in Long Island. It appears in Good Housekeeping. And so once the Amityville horror novel.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is selected into a movie and made.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Into a successful movie, William Webber sort.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of says, well, if I can't have my fair share of this money, then nobody can.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

I'm going to tell everyone that it's a hoax. And so what emerges is a long set of lawsuits and counter lawsuits between Weber and the Lutzes and these various authors. So we have lots and lots of.

[Unknown Speaker]

Evidence that there was this kind of.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Conspiracy to perpetuate a hoax. But this isn't very interesting. And so most of the media coverage.

[Unknown Speaker]

Emphasizes the claims of the supernatural and.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Does not get into contracts and law lawsuits and lawyers.

[Matt Lewis]

I'm Matt Lewis, host of the Echoes of History podcast, where every week we'll be delving into the real life history that inspires the locations, characters and storylines of the legendary Assassin's Creed franchise. Join us as we explore the narrow streets of Medici ruled Florence, cross sand dunes in the shadow of ancient pyramids, climb the rigging of 18th century brig, sailing across the Caribbean and come face to face with some of history's most significant individuals. Whether you're a history fan, a gamer, or just someone who loves a good story, Echoes of History is the podcast for you. Make sure to catch every episode by following Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History. Hit wherever you get your podcasts.

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One.

[Anthony Delaney]

Of the things which sparked my interest a few moments ago, Joe, you mentioned the Exorcist and the movie and the impact that was having in America at this time. And actually, suddenly my vision started to clear and I started to see, ah, okay. There's a real context and social and cultural context to what's starting to unfold here. I suppose. So can you give us a bit of an example of what that impact is and how big that film was? And just give us for people who may not have seen it. Now. I've actually seen the Exorcist. I've seen it quite a few times. What exactly is that movie about?

[Unknown Speaker]

So it's adapted from a true story.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Where a young boy was believed to be possessed by a demon and given an exorcism. In William Peter Blatty's adaptation, you have.

[Unknown Speaker]

A young girl named Regan who is.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Possessed by a demon that appears to be named Pazuzu.

[Unknown Speaker]

And no one will believe that this is a possession.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

They believe it's some kind of medical problem.

[Unknown Speaker]

Even when a Catholic priest is called.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

In, the priest thinks demons couldn't possibly be real. This can't really be what's happening.

[Unknown Speaker]

William Peter Blatty, as he wrote the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Story, he wanted us to think that.

[Unknown Speaker]

This priest finally gets it. He has a demon inside of him.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So now he knows it's all real. The supernatural is real. But lots of audiences saw that and thought, the devil one, right?

[Unknown Speaker]

Devil two, priests zero. So that made it a very controversial film.

[Anthony Delaney]

Give us a bit of an insight into how much of an impact this movie was having at that time, because I think it's very difficult for us to get to grasps with that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So the United States is a Protestant majority country, and for years, Catholics were associated with sort of superstitious immigrants from Ireland and Italy and Mexico.

[Unknown Speaker]

And the Catholic Church did not want to give an inch to that stereotype.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And so prior to the Exorcist, we.

[Unknown Speaker]

Only know of two Catholic exorcisms performed.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

In the United States. So it was extremely rare and never happened.

[Unknown Speaker]

And then the movie the Exorcist came out in 1973. It was based on one of these.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Two exorcisms that took place in 1949. And people were just fascinated by it. They had lines going around the Block. And when the theater had to cancel a screening, there were riots. So they had to station police outside the theaters to watch all of this.

[Unknown Speaker]

And people were having these profound emotional reactions.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

There was a psychiatrist who published a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Journal article in a psychiatric journal and.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Said, I've discovered a new mental illness. It's called cinematic neurosis, because I have four people who had to be institutionalized immediately after watching this movie.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so the Catholic Church kind of.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Scratches its head and says, well, we thought exorcism was very embarrassing, and you thought it made us superstitious, but apparently you really like it. And so gradually, the church has now.

[Unknown Speaker]

Completely reversed its position to where now.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

A Catholic exorcism is more common than.

[Unknown Speaker]

Really at any point since probably the 1600s. So the 1970s, it really was a.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Moment where Americans were very interested in.

[Unknown Speaker]

The idea of the occult and the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Supernatural and in this idea that kind.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of supernatural evil could be real.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And if it is, then we need some kind of protection to fight it off. And maybe that's the Catholic Church.

[Unknown Speaker]

But that was also part of what.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Made this scary was the belief that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Christianity was sort of slowly dying out.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So who's going to protect us if we move into a haunted house?

[Maddy Pelling]

I find this intersection absolutely fascinating between superstitious belief and popular culture, particularly film, in this moment, Jo, it's, it's. It's so interesting to me, and we certainly think about this a lot on our podcast. The witch trials of the 17th century in particular, and the endurance of superstition at, yes, an institutional church level, but also in popular culture and folk culture. And I find it fascinating that in the 1970s, we think of that as an intrinsically, I guess, modern moment compared to the centuries previously. And the technology that's able to produce and feed popular culture is developing all the time. And cinema obviously has this huge power at the end of the second half of the 20th century. Do you find it completely predictable that film and superstition go hand in hand in this moment? Or is it surprising that actually that pantomimic, or at least dramatic approach to the idea of a haunting on screen has this real life effect and actually affects people's mental health, affects their belief system? Is that a surprising thing or not?

[Unknown Speaker]

I think it was very surprising at the time.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

You know, 1968 was the year that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Rosemary's Baby came out and that that.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. And so that was the moment when.

[Unknown Speaker]

People realized, you know, maybe horror movies.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Could be a serious genre. But initially people said, well, this is A ridiculous movie. It has witches, it has the Antichrist. Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

No one believes in any of this stuff.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Well, not long after that, America was.

[Unknown Speaker]

In the throes of a full satanic.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Panic where everybody believed, you know, doctors and lawyers could actually be Satanists, just like in the movie Rosemary's Baby. So movies have a strange way of.

[Unknown Speaker]

Giving your brain a model of things.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

That are possible, of things that could really happen. You know, neuroscientists who have studied the.

[Unknown Speaker]

Effects of cinema on the mind have.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Said your brain is very good at retaining information.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's not good at remembering where it got that information. Right. And so if you were in an old house in the middle of the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Night and you hear a strange sound, your brain is going to begin rifling.

[Unknown Speaker]

For things that could be. And it very well may come up.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

With the Amityville Horror.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

If that's a movie that you've seen. So I think there is a cycle.

[Unknown Speaker]

Here where horror films kind of put ideas into certain people's heads. Some of those people use those ideas.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

To interpret what they're experiencing.

[Unknown Speaker]

And if the result is something like the Amityville Horror, then that becomes fodder.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

For yet another horror movie based on a true story, and the cycle goes around again.

[Anthony Delaney]

So let's bring this back to Amityville then. How do you think that concept fits into what's happening with the Lutzes? Do you think that's impacting or how has that shaped their experiences, their fabricated story?

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Yeah, I don't think that we would.

[Unknown Speaker]

Have had the Amityville Horror were it.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Not for the Exorcist.

[Unknown Speaker]

For a couple of reasons.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

One, the Exorcist sold millions and millions of copies. It made people very wealthy as a novel and claiming to be based on a true story. And the Lutzes were absolutely correct that if they did the same thing, they.

[Unknown Speaker]

Could make a best selling novel.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

They were correct about that. They saw the market as it was. Right. And secondly, there really was this kind.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of supernatural fervor going on in the.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

1970S, and a lot of Americans really did feel that supernatural evil was real, that the ideals of the Enlightenment had.

[Unknown Speaker]

Written all of this off without sufficient evidence.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And now it was not only all around us.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

It could literally be in your house attacking your family, but that we had kind of turned our back on religion. Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so there was a very famous Time magazine cover in the 1960s that.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Said, is God dead Today?

[Unknown Speaker]

It seems silly to think that Christianity.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Would be dying out in America. But in the 1970s, people really believed that. And they said this could be.

[Unknown Speaker]

This could be the end of being a Christian culture or becoming a secular.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Culture and who will protect us from the forces of evil once that happens. And so that was another factor that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Made the Amityville Horror so successful.

[Anthony Delaney]

So, Joe, to finish this episode, I'd love for you to give us an idea, in your opinion, what you think the legacy of this particular haunting fabrication and mindset is, I suppose, in terms of American culture. Now, how has this impacted how America understands religion, hauntings, horror? Has it shaped it, do you think?

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Yeah, I think it has. So, you know, now the church that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is doing the most in America to.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Talk about things like, you know, fighting the demonic is not the Catholic Church, it is the Pentecostal Church. Right. The Pentecostal Church has gotten very established and very powerful.

[Unknown Speaker]

And demonology is a big part of what they do.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

This idea that they are combating demons.

[Unknown Speaker]

And that literal demons can be lurking in your house, can be lurking in.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Various buildings, churches that they don't like.

[Unknown Speaker]

Stores that sell things that they deem.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

To be a cult and so forth.

[Unknown Speaker]

And the logic of the Amityville Horror shows up in a lot of this.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So it's never clear with the Amityville.

[Unknown Speaker]

Horror why is this an evil place. But it's an evil place.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

And one claim was, well, the Shinnecock Indian tribe would bury their sickly dead here.

[Unknown Speaker]

This was immediately debunked, by the way.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

By the Amityville Historical Society, who said the Shinnecock Indian tribe did not live in Amityville.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

This is simply something made up.

[Unknown Speaker]

But those kinds of stories are still very common in Pentecostal spiritual warfare group.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

So they will say things like, this.

[Unknown Speaker]

Old tree in our town is where.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

You know, Native Americans practiced idolatry.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so we need the church to.

[Dr. Joseph Laycock]

Come out and pray over this tree and banish the demons from it. And things like that simply did not happen in American culture before the Amityville Horror came out. So I think that the sort of.

[Unknown Speaker]

Logic of spiritual warfare owes something to this movie and to this story.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, if you have enjoyed listening to this episode with Dr. Joseph Laycock, then you don't have too much longer to wait for another installation because next week we will be doing another ghost busting exploration. Myself, Maddie and Joe will will be taking you on another dark history tour. But until then, thank you for joining in. If you've enjoyed this episode, please Share Like Subscribe Wherever you get your podcasts, leave us a five star review. It helps other people discover the podcast too. And until next time, thanks for listening.

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[Eva Longoria]

Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maitegome. Our podcast, Hungry for History is back and this season we're taking an even bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history, seeing that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba and the pina colada from Puerto Rico. Listen to Hungry for history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.