The Black Death As It Happened

Summary

---

After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal

Episode: The Black Death As It Happened

Hosts: Matt Lewis & Dr. Eleanor Yannaga (with Anthony)

Date: March 12, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode plunges listeners into the grim reality of the Black Death as it struck 14th-century Europe. Using vivid eyewitness accounts from poets, physicians, and churchmen—most notably Boccaccio—hosts Matt Lewis and Dr. Eleanor Yannaga navigate how medieval people experienced, explained, and even tried to find humor in one of history's deadliest pandemics. The tone veers from scholarly insight to irreverent banter as they dissect accounts from Florence, the University of Paris, and the church, exploring how various groups rationalized the horrors around them.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eyewitness Accounts: The Human Experience of the Black Death

• Florence, 1348 - Boccaccio's Testimony

  • Vivid description of death overwhelming daily life; bodies in the streets and outside homes ([08:04]).

  • Social norms upended—mourning replaced by laughter, joking, even revelry as a coping mechanism.

  • Women are (humorously and perhaps chauvinistically) singled out as leading this shift.

    Quote:
    “Bodies were put down by the front door where anybody passing by ... could have seen them by the thousands. In place of all the usual weeping at death, mostly there was laughing and joking and festive merrymaking. A practice that the women in particular led the way in.”
    —Boccaccio, read by Matt Lewis ([08:04])

• Discussion:

  • Boccaccio’s writing is both report and literary performance, blending satire, social critique, and justification for his bawdy storytelling in The Decameron.
  • Yannaga: “Because most of his characters are women, and he’s like, well you can’t even be mad at me... it’s kind of like the typical medieval way of relating to women: if something bad happened, probably a woman did it.” ([11:59])

2. Coping Mechanisms and Reactions

• Boccaccio’s Observations—Fact or Fiction?

  • Boccaccio claims the breakdown of family care and propriety—parents abandoning sick children, servants disregarding propriety, and increased nudity/freedom during the crisis ([18:21]).

  • Yannaga challenges this, arguing archaeological evidence contradicts the accounts of mass neglect, noting careful burials and evidence of care.

  • Boccaccio uses exaggeration and salacious anecdotes (i.e., abundance of “dick jokes”) to sell The Decameron and justify its tone ([21:06]).

    Quote:
    “This scourge had implanted so great a terror... that brothers abandoned brothers, uncles their nephews... and in many cases, wives deserted their husbands.”
    —Boccaccio, read by Matt Lewis ([18:21])

• Types of Social Responses (per Boccaccio):

  • YOLO Partying: “Yolo, party time. Yeah, we’re having an orgy. Everyone’s invited.” ([22:44])

  • Normcore denial: People tried to maintain normalcy—“going to mass, running my shop” ([23:13]).

  • Ascetic withdrawal: Lockdowns and “turning vegan” as an act of penitence— an effort for “getting on God’s good side” ([24:08]).

    “Medieval people, if you, like, leave them alone for two seconds, they will go vegan.”
    —Dr. Eleanor Yannaga ([23:13])

3. Scale and Impact of the Black Death

• Florence:

  • Up to 60% of the population perishes—a city devastated ([13:20]).

  • Global impact: up to 25% of Afro-Eurasia’s population; even global cooling due to fewer fires ([14:25]).

    “So many people die, we undergo global cooling as a result of it.”
    —Dr. Eleanor Yannaga ([14:33])

4. Medieval Medicine Responds: The University of Paris

• The Faculty of Medicine’s Explanation:

  • The university, under orders from King Philip, authors a report “explaining” the pestilence by astrological means ([26:07]).

  • They attribute the plague to a planetary alignment—Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn in Aquarius—which causes “noxious vapors” and corrupts the air, thereby affecting the body ([34:37]).

    Quote:
    “There was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius ... Their coming together ... caused a deadly corruption of the air on earth...”
    —University of Paris quote, read by Matt Lewis ([34:37])

• Analysis:

  • Medieval “science” is deeply interwoven with cosmology and outdated humoral theory, but their reasoning isn’t totally irrational given what was known; understanding of miasma prefigures later germ theory ([37:27]).

    “It’s not their fault that they’re wrong. Nobody knows what a germ is.”
    —Dr. Eleanor Yannaga ([38:53])

5. The Church’s Perspective: Moral Panic and Fashion Policing

• Clergy’s Account:

  • The Black Death explained as a punishment for sin, specifically the sin of pride and immodesty ([40:33]).

  • Outcry over contemporary fashions—complaints about tight clothes and the infamous “foxtail” accessory to hide women’s “arses”.

    Quote:
    “Women flowed at the tides of fashion ... wearing clothes that were so tight they wore a foxtail hanging down inside their skirts at the back to hide their arses ... The sin of pride manifested in this way must surely bring down misfortune.”
    —Church account, read by Matt Lewis ([40:33])

• Hosts’ Take:

  • Recurrent motif: disaster explained via the lens of sexual morality.
  • Yannaga: “It is your fault for being slutty ... it is imperative for the Church to make this all you people’s faults.” ([40:54])
  • Amused fascination with the details of medieval fashion and how morality and authority became intertwined with the policing of bodies and behaviors.

6. Reflections on Eyewitness History and Humanity

• Impact of Eyewitness Accounts:

  • First-hand testimony reveals not just tragedy, but also resilience, agency, humor, and coping strategies.

  • Historic crises trigger familiar human responses—attempts to find normalcy, indulge in forbidden pleasures, search for scapegoats, moralize, or invent explanations.

    “That’s why we love history, right? ... it’s all the formal stuff and we have to know how to navigate all of that and how to read between those lines. And then we get to have fun with Boccaccio.”
    —Matt Lewis ([43:59])

• Takeaways:

  • History is not just “kings and queens having a battle;” pandemics and disasters are deeply personal, human, and often absurd ([43:59]).
  • The episode closes on the importance of “learning through fun,” recognizing how the Black Death brings out both universal patterns and particular medieval flavors of response ([45:49]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 08:04 | Matt Lewis (reading Boccaccio) | “Bodies were put down by the front door where anybody passing by...could have seen them by the thousands. In place of all the usual weeping at death, mostly there was laughing and joking and festive merrymaking. A practice that the women in particular led the way in.” | | 14:33 | Dr. Eleanor Yannaga | “So many people die, we undergo global cooling as a result of it.” | | 22:44 | Dr. Eleanor Yannaga | “Yolo, party time. Yeah, we’re having an orgy. Everyone’s invited.” | | 23:13 | Dr. Eleanor Yannaga | “Medieval people, if you like, leave them alone for two seconds, they will go vegan.” | | 34:37 | Matt Lewis (reading University of Paris) | “There was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius ... Their coming together ... caused a deadly corruption of the air on earth...” | | 38:53 | Dr. Eleanor Yannaga | “It’s not their fault that they’re wrong. Nobody knows what a germ is.” | | 40:33 | Matt Lewis (reading church source) | “Women flowed at the tides of fashion ... wearing clothes that were so tight they wore a foxtail hanging down inside their skirts at the back to hide their arses ... The sin of pride manifested in this way must surely bring down misfortune.” | | 41:53 | Dr. Eleanor Yannaga | “If not now, when, like, when am I gonna wear my, like, dress that’s so tight I have to have a foxtail to hide my bum crack?” | | 43:59 | Matt Lewis | “That’s why we love history, right? ...and then we get to have fun with Boccaccio.” |

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:51] – Introduction to the Black Death, its symptoms, and apocalyptic toll
• [08:04] – Boccaccio’s account: bodies, social inversion, and humor in Florence
• [18:21] – Boccaccio on familial abandonment and nudity—satire or reality?
• [24:08] – Boccaccio’s “three responses”: partying, normcore, ascetic lockdown
• [26:07] – The University of Paris: education, medical theory, and astrological explanation
• [34:37] – Astrological report; linking cosmic events to plague
• [40:33] – The Church’s moralizing response and the infamous foxtail fashion
• [43:59] – Reflection: eyewitness insight, the comedy and tragedy of history

---

Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable—balancing dark humor (about the “dick joke book,” foxtails, and YOLO partying) with careful critique of sources and sensitivity to historical actors.
• Accessible and engaging for a non-specialist audience, with in-jokes and references to contemporary experience (COVID analogies, relevance of veganism), and an open invitation to see the past as both alien and oddly familiar.

---

Final Reflection

By stitching together gripping personal testimonies and institutional explanations, the hosts rebuild the living texture of the Black Death era: terror, chaos, attempts at order, and—perhaps unavoidably—gallows humor and scapegoating. The episode not only debunks myths, but also celebrates the irrepressible weirdness, resilience, and adaptability of humankind in the face of catastrophe.

---

Transcript

[Matt Lewis]

Looking for more shady and sinister stories? Sign up to History Hit. You can join us to explore the tragic life of the Brontes or discover the chilling story of Burke and Hare. Plus, with your History Hit subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com subscribe to start exploring the past.

[Kareem]

Hi everyone, this is Kareem, the voice of Simon Fairchild from the Magnus archives, and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. Some things quietly drain you like an expensive phone bill, trapping your money month after month. Here's a quick money tip. Stop paying a carrier tax when you bring your own phone and Switch to boost mobile's $25 unlimited forever plan. You can unlock up to $600 in savings. That's money that belongs in your life, not trapped in a phone bill. Reclaim those savings for something you're actually into an EMF meter, a thermal camera, or whatever strange corner of the universe you're currently exploring. Visit boostmobile.com to unlock your savings and take back control. After 30GB, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Boost Mobile January 2026 survey comparing average annual payments of AT&T, Verizon and T mobile customers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com hey,

[Adam Grant]

this is Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Have you heard of Bill? It's the intelligent finance platform that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move, and maximize money. Proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as the thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

It's tax season, and at LifeLock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it. Guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com specialoffer for the threats you can't control. Terms apply.

[Matt Lewis]

In the year of our Lord 13:48, there happened in Florence, the finest city in all Italy, a most terrible plague. Tumors appeared in people's groins or under the armpits, some as big as a small apple, others as big as an egg. And afterwards came purple spots that were the messengers of death. The disease spread daily like fire when it touches oil. What I am going to tell you is fantastical. And had I not seen it with my own eyes and were there not many witnesses to attest to it besides myself, I should never dare to tell this tale. It was agony, septicemia, gangrene, extreme shock, severe gastrointestinal and respiratory distress, internal bleeding, and those notorious black pus filled lymph nodes the size of an apple in the groin and under the arms. These are the symptoms of the terrifying and highly transmissible infection that could kill a perfectly healthy person within 20. This was Europe in 1348, the year of the Black Death. Within four years, nearly half the population was gone. Cities emptied. Churches overflowed with the dead. Doctors, if they survived, could do nothing but watch. We think we understand pandemics today, but nothing compares to witnessing a world consumed by plague. Now, to truly grasp it, we are going to turn to the voices of those who lived through it. Poets, preachers, and doctors from Italy to England. Their accounts spare no detail. Welcome to After Dark. Get ready to hear about the horror of the Black Death.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Hello, I am Eleanor, and this is After Dark. And I am joined by the effervescent and wonderful Anthony. Hi, Anthony.

[Anthony]

Hi.

[Matt Lewis]

This is. So. This is one of the first times I have not done the introduction to After Dark, and I'm enjoying the funness of it because we are here for more medieval mischief with the one and only Eleanor.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

I'm so excited to be here. Look, I know everybody is sad that Maddie isn't here, but it's because she's going to be a guest judge on RuPaul Drag Race.

[Matt Lewis]

She is. She is.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

You know, she's got better places to be.

[Matt Lewis]

It's the baby episode of RuPaul's Drag Race.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. She's like, she's going to be in the workroom. It's gonna be.

[Matt Lewis]

It's a baby designing project.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Matt Lewis]

Actually, they should do that. It's neither here nor there. We're here.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Copyright. Copyright.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes, yes. We're here to talk about medieval history, Eleanor.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

That's right. And in particular, we are going to be talking about one of my very favorite topics, and I know a paret favorite here on After Dark, which is the Black Death.

[Matt Lewis]

We have looked at this in 438 billion different ways, including a day in the life of a rat during the Black Death or something. It was, it was. But listen, people liked it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And listen, justice for rats. The rats did nothing wrong. It was the fleas.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes, yes, thank you. Yes. And that's why it was useful to kind of do it. But we are doing something. Okay, so you have provided producer Freddie with some quotes. So tell me what these quotes are going to be and how they're. This episode is going to kind of pan out.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So we have got some eyewitness accounts from varying people who lived through this mess.

[Matt Lewis]

I didn't even know that we had that.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Well, some people survive, right? You know, and the thing is, obviously everyone is living through one of the most terrible things that humanity has ever experienced. And they got a lot to say about it. Right? So we don't always have really great accounts of exactly what is happening because everyone is going, oh, my God, everyone's dying, everyone's dying, everyone's dying. But we do have them grappling with what it all means, and we do have some descriptors that happen in there as well. So we're going to start off with some stuff from one of my favorite writers of all time, Boccaccio, and he lives through the plague in Florence. We're going to move on, and we are going to have a look at what the physicians at the University of Paris have to say about it and what their explanation for the Black Death is. And then we're going to move on to some excellent quotes from the church.

[Matt Lewis]

Well, look, it's medieval time. We can't not talk about, you know, the church. Listen, so this is what the church. Okay, I'm imagining what those things might be. Right. So I am going to read those quotes and you are going to guide me through the crack that's going on

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

in and around those mighty, altogether mighty crack.

[Matt Lewis]

Now, can I just say, if you want to go back and hear a little bit more about the context of some of these things that we're going to be talking about. We have, I think it's about three or four other episodes on the Black Death in our After Dark back catalog. Eleanor, you have loads on Gone Medieval as well. So go and listen to all of those and then come back here for. For this kind of overview and eyewitness account. Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

First up, let's go.

[Matt Lewis]

We're going to Boccaccio, right? This is the first one, right? Eleanor's given us these quotes. I'm going to read the first one. Many dropped dead in the open streets, both by day and by night, whilst a great many others died alone in their homes, only alerting their neighbors to the fact by the smell of their rotting corpses. Bodies were put down by the front door where anybody passing by, especially in the morning, could have seen them by the thousands. In place of all the usual weeping at death, mostly there was laughing and joking and festive merrymaking. A practice that the women in particular led the way in. Okay. There are no tears or candles or mourners to honor the dead. It had reached the point that people who died were treated the same way that goats would be treated nowadays. Okay, I have never come across this before. I've never read this before. It is my. Okay, I'm gonna give you my initial impression, and then you can kind of tell me the real thing. What's interesting is this idea of. It's very evocative. Cause we're smelling this idea of rotting corpses. We are seeing the doors, the bodies piled up by their thousands, by the way. And it's also interesting that it's set in the morning time. So this is how you're starting your day with death in Florence, you said, right?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Florence, yeah.

[Matt Lewis]

You're hearing the weeping. So this is sensory. This is happening all over. But then we have this very odd thing that's saying. And actually, you know, who are the most. Well, let me preface it by saying. He talks about there being a kind of a disrespect towards the dead because there's so many of them happening. There's so many bodies around the place. But it's a weird thing to then go. And the women in particular are the worst at this. They are just having the absolute hootenanny around all of this death going on.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Not the hoot. Nanny.

[Matt Lewis]

But then he's just saying, oh, you know, this is the losing of all kind of morality we are unraveling because of the way we are treating our dead. It's no better than the way we're treating our goats. Very specific there. Right. Who is Boccaccio? And talk me through. Well, let's start with that. Who is he and why should be paying attention to him in this particular case?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Okay, so our good friend Giovanni Boccaccio is a poet and writer, and he's very good.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

As you just saw from that. Like, how evolved is that passage Right. So he is one of, like, our leading lights of the 14th century. Wonderful medieval writer, and he's most famous for his book, the Decameron. The Decameron is set during the Black Death in Florence, and it follows 10 people. It says seven women and three men who flee Florence. They leave, and they go off to the countryside to wait out the Black Death. And what they do in the meantime is they decide to tell each other stories. It's like a story contest. And so they all have to tell a story every day, and then they choose whoever's the king or queen of the next day, and they set the tone for the next one. So that's partially why you're gonna see the. Oh, and the women led the way in this. Cause let me tell you what, the stories that they're telling in the Decameron, it is a series of dick jokes.

[Matt Lewis]

Stop.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, it is like. I mean, it is like, graphic sexual content a lot of the time. You know, there are some moral lessons, but a lot of them are also like, oh, like a Muslim princess got captured by pirates, and then she sexed her way back to the top, you know, and things like that. So it's just a lot of that. So partially what Boccaccio is doing here is he's covering for himself about, like, why he is about to tell you a bunch of dick jokes.

[Matt Lewis]

I see.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Because most of his characters are women, and he's like, well, you can't even be mad at me.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because a woman. Can you believe what these are saying? This is great. Like, look at them.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

But also, this is kind of like the typical medieval way of relating to women is like, it was something bad happening. Probably a woman did it.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah. They are being unreasonable over there.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

I can't believe them. But fundamentally, the Decameron also, in addition to all the dick jokes, really groundbreaking because it is written in Florentine dialect.

[Kareem]

Oh.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So it's not written in Latin, which a lot of things are. And it's also not. I mean, like, French. Yeah. Like, we've got a million things that are written in French around the shop at the time, but dialectic Italian, not

[Matt Lewis]

so much for kind of a local audience, local people. We're reaching the people on the street with this story. This. Well, not history necessarily, in this case, but we're invoking them. Those that can read or that are hearing these stories or whatever it might be, to partake slightly or to identify. Do we think that that's what's happening?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, absolutely. You know what he's really doing is reporting on the conditions in Florence for the Florentine people. Exactly. And this is, you know, some people, we do know this when the Black Death happens they're like yolo. Right. Like it appears, it's ain't great that we all might die. So you know like we're just, we're. We're partying.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And that is one of the big reactions that that happens as a result of it. So he's living in Florence. His mother dies, his father dies.

[Matt Lewis]

Of the play.

[Anthony]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Of the plague in like 1348. And this is not a surprise because. Okay, let me tell you what is happening in Florence at the time. It's got one of the highest death counts that we get in Europe. At the time we estimated at about 60% of the population. 6 0.

[Matt Lewis]

You would notice that on a day to day. Well this is what he's describing then. That makes a lot of sense in terms of. It is it is more common. Death is more common than life.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah.

[Matt Lewis]

In this moment in time.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Completely. And this is basically what we would expect to see within Afro Eurasia at the time. The more concentrated people are, the faster the black. Sure.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

You know, so it's like out in the countryside like it's just not going to happen. Florence is a really big, very bustling, incredibly wealthy international trade. Absolutely. And so it's got stuff coming back and forth and so people die. You know, we estimate that worldwide 25% of the global population dies of the Black Death. And that is even crazier when you consider that it's only happening in Afro Eurasia. Like it's only happening in Saharan Africa, Europe and Asia.

[Matt Lewis]

And what did you say? 25%?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

25%. So many people die. We undergo global cooling as a result of it.

[Matt Lewis]

Stop it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. Because like there are fewer fires.

[Matt Lewis]

Wow.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. And so it is like a huge event. And you know, Florence is one of the real epicenters for it. We have a lot of people die, but people are dying like this in Baghdad, people are dying like this in Beijing. You know, like all the really big fancy cities. That's where people die.

[Matt Lewis]

And that's where this 60% that you're talking about then is coming into play in Florence because it is so busy. But like globe AFRO Eurasia is 25, but that's 60% in those concentrated centers is far more prevalent.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's not happening in the Americas, it's not happening in Australia.

[Matt Lewis]

That's what I mean.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's not happening in far now. It's like it doesn't get across the desert in Africa either.

[Kareem]

Hi everyone, this is Kareem, the voice of Simon Fairchild from the Magnus archives, and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. Some things quietly drain you like an expensive phone bill, trapping your money month after month. Here's a quick money tip. Stop paying a carrier tax when you bring your own phone and Switch to boost mobile's $25 Unlimited Forever plan. You can unlock up to $600 in savings. That's money that belongs in your life, not trapped in a phone bill. Reclaim those savings for something you're actually into an EMF meter, a thermal camera, or whatever strange corner of the universe you're currently exploring. Visit boostmobile.com to unlock your savings and take back control. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Boost Mobile January 2026 survey comparing average annual payments of AT&T, Verizon and T mobile customers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. For details, visit boostmobile.com hey, this is

[Adam Grant]

Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Have you heard of Bill? It's the intelligent finance platform that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move and maximize money, proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.compenven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.

[Matt Lewis]

In a world where swords were sharp

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

and hygiene was actually probably better than you think it is, two fearless historians.

[Matt Lewis]

Me, Matt Lewis and me, Dr. Eleanor

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yannaga diagnosis Headfirst into the mud. Blood and very strange customs of the Middle Ages.

[Matt Lewis]

So for plagues, crusades and Viking raids, and plenty of other things that don't rhyme, subscribe to Gone Medieval From History Hit wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anthony]

Dark history, true crime and old legends find their way to us like dark memories approaching on the road at night. Join me, Edwin COVARrubias from Scary FM as we explore haunted places and relive dark events Together. We'll investigate present day mysteries and share tales and legends. Subscribe for free to Horror Story. It's a podcast with the yellow letters and the windshield. Find it on your favorite podcast app or visit us [e-mail].

[Matt Lewis]

Okay, so we have another quote from Boccaccio. Okay, I'm gonna read it. Is this from the same thing? Is this from.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, it's both from the Decameron.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay, this one says this scourge had implanted so great a terror in the hearts of men and women that brothers abandoned brothers, uncles, their nephews, sisters, their brothers, and in many cases, w deserted their husbands. Not the wives deserting their husbands.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Come on. Okay, now it's illegal for women to have hobbies. Okay, all right, I see.

[Matt Lewis]

But even worse. Even worse than that. Who could imagine? But even worse and almost incredible was the fact that fathers and mothers refused to nurse and assist their own children as though they did not belong to them. From this desertion of friends and the scarcity of servants, an unheard of custom prevailed. No lady, however young or beautiful, would scruple to be attended by a male servant or to expose herself naked to him. Eh. Why would you be doing that before? Which might make those who survive less. Okay. Which might make those who survive less modest in the times to come.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Like, absolutely incredible that we are, like, saying that genetically, everyone is getting kind of slutty with it.

[Matt Lewis]

But also, isn't it funny that they're kind of going, all of this is happening, right? There's death piling up in the door. The more people that. That, you know, are probably in Florence at least, are probably d. Than they are living. And what he is saying is, and then there was naked women.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Could you believe this is what we

[Matt Lewis]

need to be concentrating on now is the naked women?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And so it's very funny because the way that this is written, it's like, listen, with all due respect to my good friend Giovanni.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, probably not. Actually. One of the things that we think really comes out from the Black Death is that there is a great deal of care taken with the dead and with people's families, you don't actually abandon your loved ones. You can see, for example, if we look at plague pits and things like that, everybody. It's not like you just dump the bodies in the ground. They're all lined up very nicely. They all have their arms crossed. You know, people are attempting to do the right thing. But if we say, and, oh, the wives are leaving their husbands and, ooh, the rich girls have male servants and they let them see him naked. That's a great thing to put at the beginning of your book, all about dick jokes.

[Matt Lewis]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So, like, again, he's like. And that's why this is a little slice of life.

[Matt Lewis]

So is he having a laugh?

[Kareem]

Yeah.

[Matt Lewis]

You think?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. So basically, it's partially justifying why it is that he's written the dick joke

[Matt Lewis]

book and covering that in a morality tale.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Exactly. And so it's like this is the wink to camera that you have to do in order to justify why you've written a sex book during, like, the largest pandemic the world's ever seen.

[Matt Lewis]

We've all written a sex book during the pandemic.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's like, I'm just reporting what's happening. This is, you know how women are.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And also, like, from a medieval standpoint, you gotta understand that women are the horny ones.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So, you know, like, of course that's like, what they're going to do. Of course they're going to get real, real slutty with it the minute everybody starts dying. Right. So, yeah.

[Matt Lewis]

And you talked there about, you know, he's having a bit of crack, but you also talked about the kind of disparity between the. What he's describing in the. Oh, we're just dumping bodies everywhere and very carefully being laid to rest. And which is what I would have expected. And what was somewhere in the back of my mind, but what he also says, seems to be saying is that. And there were no real kind of survival strategies for this. People were just drinking, getting in the nip. They were just, like, having a lovely old time. But again, my instinct tells me that that is probably not going to be totally the case. Right. People are gonna be trying to contain this disease.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

He eventually walks us back.

[Matt Lewis]

One of the tumors has read the Decameron, and it is not me.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

I really recommend it. It is filthy. It is. But, like, again, it's filthy.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's like, you know, most medieval things you read in, you think you're being very worthy because you're reading a medieval book. And then it's like, this is. This is just saucy. Okay, so like, do, do read. Pick it up sometime. But what's interesting is that he does walk it back and then he goes, okay, well, I said most people were doing this, but he actually says that there's kind of like three ways of looking at this one. Yolo, party time. Yeah, we're having an orgy. Everyone's invited.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

To people pretending that everything is normal and just trying to go normcore.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay. That happened. I. I always hate this. I actually hate myself for doing this, but I'm gonna do It. We saw that ourselves, right. Where it was like actually just. Just to try and. And maintain that normality became a kind of an act of radical resistance almost during the COVID pandemic that we've all just come out. Well a few years ago come out of. So that's interesting to hear that that's there as well.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. So they were. Listen, I don't want to deviate from my actual patterns. I'm going to mass, I'm running my shop, I'm doing these things whilst people increasingly are dying. And, you know, it's a coping mechanism. It's a lot to deal with. And then there's the third group of people who essentially, like, lock themselves inside and they are being really abstemious. They are going vegan. They are trying not to drink too much. Yeah, yeah. Like, that's a big thing. Like medieval people, if you, like leave them alone for two seconds, they will go vegan. Like they. Well, poor people are like basically having to do it. Yeah. So it's like, it's not particularly really interesting, but especially more well to do people, if they're ever worried that God is mad at them, they go vegan. So it's like Lent, you're vegan. Like, if you're. If you're an important muckety muck in the church and you want to, like, make a point about things, you go vegan. So, you know, then there's. That's like the third way. And they're kind of like, oh, I am just going to try to get on God's good side. Apparently he's really angry with us.

[Matt Lewis]

So no lamb.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So no lamb. And then, you know, they kind of do this lockdown thing. So he kind of presents the three versions, but, like, which is the one that he's going to write about? Obviously he's going to write about Party town crack. Like, no one's going to be like, oh, yeah, and what did the vegans do? Cry.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's like, that's not going to sell.

[Matt Lewis]

Vegans are going to come for you now. They are.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

They are some of my list. Some of my best friends are vegans.

[Matt Lewis]

Like, some of my best friends are Stevens. It's kind of same. That's a throwback to another episode. Okay, so that's Fuka. That's really interesting because it is. It's interesting to see it being made fun of. That's not something we associate with the Black Death, really, in terms of. Particularly from a medieval perspective itself. Usually it's like, oh, God, it's this thing. But actually there's something very human in that. And we know that ourselves because we have done that. We tried to find humor. And again, it's what you're talking about, this kind of survival mechanism that. I don't know, it's just how we try to rationalize terrible things sometimes. And it's interesting to see that here.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I suppose one of the reasons we don't get to see that very often is that there's a limited number of people we get to hear here from in the medieval period. And you gotta be literate.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Which most people are not. And then whatever you wrote down has to survive to us. And it's a really long time ago. You know, 700 years ago is a really long time.

[Matt Lewis]

It is.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So, you know, we don't always get these stories, but because Boccaccio wrote so many sexy bangers.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

You know, it survived us because everyone is like, oh, yeah, have you read the Dick joke book? Yeah. And then. And that's in there. So.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay, right, we're going to move away from Boccaccio to. I'm really interested in this now because this is a Paris medical faculty, so I'm. Okay. My expectations here are going to be different. I am expecting. I don't know if I'm going to get it. I'm expecting something a bit more serious, a bit more methodical. We talked about those survival strategies in the previous quotes. I'm imagining I'm going to hear some of that there and maybe even treatment. Okay, let's see. You're like. You can.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

You're going to love it.

[Matt Lewis]

You can expect what you want. You're going to get more.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

I'm so excited for you.

[Matt Lewis]

Read this. Okay. It says, we, the masters of the Faculty of Medicine at Paris, inspired by the command of the most. Okay, the tone's very different. By the command of the most illustrious prince, our most serene Lord Philip, King of France. Good old Phil. And by our desire to achieve something of public benefit, have decided to compile, with God's help, a brief compendium of the distant and immediate causes of the present universal epidemic. Okay, so we're being scientific now.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yes. So here we are at the Paris medical facilities. Right. University of Paris, second university city in Europe. We now call it the Sorbonne. Yeah, yeah. You may know her as the Sorbonne.

[Matt Lewis]

I've lectured there.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Lewis]

I know she's fancy.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

All right. Okay. So the Bologna came first. Then came the University of Paris. And as this says, basically, the king was like, so, fancy boys, what's all this then? Right? Like, explain yourselves. Right. And we have had the University of Paris since about the 12th century. At this point in time, universities look a bit. Little bit different.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

At that point than they do now. It's kind of more of a vibe.

[Matt Lewis]

Great.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Like, it's less like, oh, here's the halls of the university. And it's more like a collection of guys who are really clever and who have gone to school there, who put on lectures in different places.

[Matt Lewis]

Rich, I'm assuming.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Oh, yes. Oh, my God, yes. So members of the university are all technically members of the clergy. So in order to be a student, you have got to be a clergy member just for while you're there.

[Matt Lewis]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's where the term town gown relations comes from. Because they're all wearing clerical gowns.

[Matt Lewis]

And Is that why we have gowns? We graduate?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, because. Because we're. We are pretending to be members of the clergy and they are studying a couple of different things. So to be a physician, like the title physician, they're not called doctors yet. We only let physicians be called doctors from the 19th century.

[Kareem]

Okay.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Real doctors are people with PhDs. We just felt sorry for them. Okay. So to be a doctor, you have to first study what is called the trivium. That's grammar, logic, rhetoric. And so that's basically like reading, writing in Greek and Latin and arguing with each other.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And then if you master that, that's your bachelor's, you will go on to study the quadrivium. The quadrivium are music, astronomy, mathematics, which is basically like just the regular stuff. And as well as geometry, they keep

[Matt Lewis]

making them do maths. I don't know if I would have gotten through.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Listen, these guys are doing it with Roman numerals too, for quite a long time by now I think we've brought the Arabic numerals in, but it's like, I don't even want to think about it.

[Matt Lewis]

Everything else would have been fine. But not numbers.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's horrif. And then if you are doing physician work, as these guys are, then you're also going to study the master. So you're going to be working with things like the trotula, written by Trota of Salerno. You will be working with Avicenna's things. So a lot of things that come over, especially from the Arabic world. You'll be studying Plato and Aristotle, which you shouldn't. Studying Hippocrates about. This is not going to help help, but you know, they are Going to be really working with these things. I mention Hippocrates and things like that, because you've got to understand the medieval world. Like, everybody up until we discover germs in the 19th century is working off of the humor theory, right? So you and I know it and love it. Got four humors in the body. You've got black bile, yellow bile, blood and phlegm. They correspond with earth, air, fire and water. You know, hot, dry, cold and wet.

[Matt Lewis]

Very sexy stuff.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's wonderful stuff. And the idea is that when those humors get out of alignment, that's what makes you sick. Everybody believed this. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, do not go around and say to me that, like, Romans had better medicine than medieval people did. They didn't. It was worse.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It was much worse. They believed this as much as medieval people. People in the 17th century believe this.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

But medieval people get guff for it.

[Matt Lewis]

It's not until the 18th century, really, that we start to see this change in this supposed enlightenment kind of thing. So we have a long, long time of this. But so am I right, then, in thinking that the kind motivation for writing this would be knowledge is power?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, I mean, kind of. You know, everyone's just freaking out.

[Matt Lewis]

Everyone's freaking out.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Everyone's freaking out. And they're like, well, what is happening? Right? And the idea is, if we can just explain what's happening, then at least that gives us something to work with. Right. And if you're King Philip, and I am, obviously, yes. You are going to be like, well, I don't understand what all of this is. Can you just explain to me what is going on and what is the university for? Brav.

[Matt Lewis]

Other than that.

[Anthony]

That.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Like what? Like what? Like, you're so fancy. I'm given to understand they have all these special dispensations within the city of Paris. Like, if the students are behaving badly, they go to ecclesiastical court. They don't go to, like, regular legal courts because they're members of the clergy. So why have we carved out this special niche for you all if you're not working, if you're not actually doing it? So when Philip shows up and he's like, hey, guys, payback time. Yeah, exactly. So they are asked to basically explain what is going on really quickly, but they're going to be explaining it within this specific academic framework that we see in the university system.

[Kareem]

Hi, everyone, this is Karim, the voice of Simon Fairchild from the Magnus archives. And today I want to talk to you About Boost Mobile Some things quietly drain you like an expensive phone bill, trapping your money money month after month. Here's a quick money Stop paying a carrier tax when you bring your own phone and Switch to boost mobile's $25 Unlimited Forever plan. You can unlock up to $600 in savings. That's money that belongs in your life, not trapped in a phone bill. Reclaim those savings for something you're actually into an EMF meter, a thermal camera, or whatever strange corner of the universe you're currently exploring. Visit boostmobile.com to unlock your savings and take back control. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on The Boost Mobile UNL Boost Mobile January 2026 survey comparing average annual payments of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com hey,

[Adam Grant]

this is Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Let me share with you why smart finance leaders turn to Bill. They know that clarity isn't just helpful, it's strategic. As the intelligent finance platform, Bill uses AI to automate the busy work for nearly half a million business businesses so they can focus on intentional growth, eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.compenven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for detail.

[Matt Lewis]

And what's striking me about what you're saying is that these are, you know, because now it has this idea of like a lot of people go to university and you know, you can go and have a great example and still not know that much.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

But come on, no self put downs.

[Matt Lewis]

These men are the smartest men around. So if anybody is going to be able to do like this is their moment, this is what they are, this is what they have trained for, you know, in a great sense.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Oh absolutely. I mean, and when we say university now you think about university and you're like, yeah, that's what that'll be like 10,000 people. Yeah, like 50.

[Matt Lewis]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

You know, and you've got to be the best of the best. It's a very expensive undertaking and it's where people get sent if they are extremely clever and they are being groomed to take on incredibly important positions within the church or even within like at the King's Court. Right. So it's like that's where you go to learn things. So this is extremely high falutin.

[Kareem]

Okay, Highfalutin.

[Matt Lewis]

That's the official. That's your next book, right? High falutin. Highfalutin universities. Okay, so I'm gonna go back to some of these quotes. And this is apparently what caused what they thought caused the Black Death. Okay, so this is their finding.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah, this is their finding. This is their report. They got together. They wrote a report.

[Matt Lewis]

Okay. The first cause of this pestilence was the configuration of the heavens, obviously in 1340 three years before the Black Death, at one hour after noon on the 20th of March. Bloody hell. They are. They are going into specifics here. There was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius, namely Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Their coming together in the heavens caused a deadly corruption of the air on Earth, meaning mortality and famine would follow. They drew up evil vapors from the Earth and then ignited them with lightning flashes, drama, noxious vapors and the fires in the air. These many corrupted vapors were then spread around the world by frequent gusts of wind and gales. This corruption, when breathed in, necessarily penetrates to the heart and corrupts. Wow. They're going all. They've gone. They've gone from the cosmos and now they've got inside. The human body necessarily penetrates to the heart and corrupts the substance of the spirit. Now we're going even deeper again. And rots the surrounding tissues. This is the immediate cause of the present isn't epidemic. Right. I said that these are the most learned men. And they are, they are, they are. I'm not trying to take away from them, but at the same time, it just goes to show you can spend as much time as you want in university and there'll still be some things that you can't understand. Listen, I'm not the only one.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

When you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Like when you've got a medieval university education, you're going to explain things within that. And so we've got the astronomy right. That's like one of the. That's one of the quadrivium that you've got to learn. And this is reflecting this medieval idea of what is called the microcosm versus macrocosm.

[Matt Lewis]

Sure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Okay. The macrocosm is God's creation writ large, the universe. And the human body is meant to be a part of that. And to an extent, it's like a reflection of it. Right. So humors exist in the world more generally but they also exist within us. That's why astrology makes sense to them. So astronomy and astrology pretty much exactly the same thing. So they've witnessed this conjunction, they know about it, and they're like, girl. Oh. And. And that's why I told you that was something exact. And so, you know, they. They really believe in all of that. Like, to the point that if you're going to, for example, do surgery on people in the medieval period, you will consult astrological things because, like, you ought not to be bleeding certain parts of the body at certain times. At certain times in conjunction with astrological problems. Okay. So there's a reflection of that in there. And this is actually pretty complex. And to be fair, okay, it's weird about the vapors, and obviously it's not due to a conjunction of the planets. But what you do see here that I do think is. Is, okay, they don't know about germs, but they understand that being around in the area, there's something. There's something around us.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And it makes us sick.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And so things like this. This idea of noxious vapors, this idea that you can have miasma, you know, that's not 100 miles.

[Matt Lewis]

I agree.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Of germ theory. And it's like. Yeah. And I don't know, it moves around on the wind.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

I mean, why. Why is. Is that weirder than, like, oh, it's invisible and if someone breathes on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Matt Lewis]

No, I think it's in there. I think it's got the. It's got the kernel of where this goes to it, and they're contextualizing it within the knowledge that's available to them in their day. But I also actually really love this idea of the connection of the cosmos and the individuals and this idea that. Which we do know scientifically is the case, that we are all made up of certain particles that are universal that go across anything, and they seem to have some kind of innate knowledge of that, of how we are all connected somehow and we are connected to things beyond even human experience is something that's far wider. So I do kind of give them some kind of credit for that as well. And it's very easy, I think, for us, isn't it, to be like, God, they didn't know what they were talking about. But actually there's wisdom in this. It might not necessarily be what we now understand as factual knowledge, but there's wisdom in it nonetheless.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Absolutely. Doing the best that they can with the tools at their disposal.

[Matt Lewis]

Right, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Like, this is actually a very sophisticated way of looking at this. It's not their fault that they're wrong. Nobody knows what a germ is.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

That's just it. Like, they don't. Like, I wouldn't know the germs existed if I hadn't been told they exist.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Right.

[Matt Lewis]

Imagine you told a medieval person about a germ.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

You know, it's when I kind of, like, have fantasized if I would go back. The thing that I would try to, like, bring back is, like, penicillin.

[Anthony]

Sure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

And then. And I have to think about, like, how I would explain that to them.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's difficult. Yeah, it's very difficult.

[Matt Lewis]

Right. I know we're coming to the end of this episode, but I want to get one more account in. And this is from an eyewitness. And now we're moving. So we've been into a funneled artistic type with Boccaccio. We have gone to the medical facilities and now we're going to the clergy. We can't leave this topic without going to the clergy. So let's see what this says. The men have abandoned the old decent style of long full garments, all right, in favor of clothes which are short, tight, impractical, every part laced, strapped or buttoned up, with sleeves and hoods hanging down to absurd lengths so that they look more like torturers or even demons than men. Women flowed with the tides of. Women flowed at the tides of fashion, you know, even more eagerly wearing clothes that were so tight that they wore a foxtail hanging down inside their skirts at the back to hide their arses. First mention of an arse. The sin of pride manifested in this way must surely bring down misfortune in the future. So, again, the people were too sexy.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Oh, it's just. It is your fault for being slutty.

[Matt Lewis]

Well, the first time somebody said that

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

and I'm like, listen, like, would you tell a butterfly not to flap its wings? You know? So this. This comes to us from an anonymous monk. And so it is imperative for the Church to make this. All you people's faults.

[Matt Lewis]

Of course.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Right. Because they're like, I need to explain why this happens. And again, you got a hammer? Everything's a nail. Right. And so this has got to be a moral problem. And what's interesting about this is it kind of backs BOCCACCIO Up.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes. 100%.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

A little bit. Yeah.

[Matt Lewis]

We're back to that, aren't we?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's like, oh, yeah. Everyone's like, seems everyone is Dying. I'm gonna get slutty with it.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Like, I'm gonna like, if, like, if not now, when, like, when am I gonna wear my, like, dress that's so tight I have to have a foxtail to hide my bum crack. Right? Yeah, like, that's, that's.

[Matt Lewis]

Wait, what is the foxtail for?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

So, yeah, that's basically what it is when he says hide their arses.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Right. It's like it's hanging down inside, like on your bum so that your bum crack doesn't show. It's gonna like give you a more.

[Matt Lewis]

This is for us.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. It give you a more padded laugh.

[Matt Lewis]

I've seen them, but I didn't know that that's what they were for.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. And it's like, look, they're like, I don't want to, like, I mean, listen, the two cheeks would be too much. So I'm like, listen, it could be worse. They could not wear the foxtail and you'd be seeing that bum cleavage. Right. So, like, listen, take the win. Where.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, I need to get myself a foxtail.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Yeah. And it's like this is where we start to see the kind of fashion for medieval men of just basically wearing tights.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

It's like. So it's just like tights and like a really short tunic. But the tunic then has like floppy flappy sleeves.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Because you need to have that because the more cloth you're wearing in the medieval period, like, the more your money you're showing, you have. So they're like, I want to show my junk. Yeah. But I want everybody to know I have money.

[Matt Lewis]

I could afford trousers.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

But I thought this is a fashion choice. So. Yeah. And I think that's beautiful.

[Matt Lewis]

Yes. No, listen, go for it. They're also the one. They're also the kind of image of medieval people that we grow up with in storybooks. Right. Like if you're thinking about the penguin, Sleeping Beauty or whatever, that's how they're dust.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

That's how they're dust. Yeah, exactly. And. Oh, it was too sexy.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah. Well, as ever.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Listen. Okay, Anthony, my darling love, how do you feel about these sources? Does this make you feel any different? I know you like, I am a huge fan of this particular pestilence, but does this open your eyes up?

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah. Do you know what? It actually really does, because what it, it's given me, and this is obvious because these are first hand accounts. Right. So this is the whole great thing about firsthand accounts in any part of history. It gives you a Personal insight. And it gives you multiple personal insight. And the different ways people were looking at this, the different way people were using this event to exert control, as we see so many times, in different ways, to moralize and therefore to control again. But also. And I'm so glad that this is in there to have fun. Sometimes it's going like, I don't know, it's just, what else can you do? And it's a very human reaction. And we see the kind of institutions reacting in the medical practitioners and the clergy. But then we have Boccaccio. And also there are, as you have been saying, a plethora of dick jokes to go here. And I just. That's why we love history, right? It's all the formal stuff and we have to know how to navigate all of that and how to read between those lines. And then we get to have fun with Boccaccio.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Do you know, I think that it just goes to show that it is important to keep looking at the Black Death, because this is really what humanizes it. And these sorts of eyewitness accounts tell us more. More about what actual people are thinking and doing. I think there's a tendency of people to think that history is just about kings and queens having a battle, but this is also real. Like, this is what was happening. This tells us more about the average person on the street. And that's why I will make you all hear about Foxtail arses forever. That's right.

[Matt Lewis]

You're gonna have no pushback from me. I'm on board. If you've enjoyed listening to history of Foxtail Arsen, then you can find more medieval mayhem over on Gone Medieval with Eleanor, of course, and the incredible Mount Lewis. We also have some medieval history in our After Dark back catalogue, a lot of which is with you, actually.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Can you believe it?

[Matt Lewis]

Funny that, isn't it? So thank you so much for listening. And if you are listening, and if you've been listening to After Dark for the last couple of years, we are also on YouTube, so go over and you can watch us. You can see what I've had a lot of people say that they thought that I was a much older man.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Wow. They said that to your face?

[Matt Lewis]

Well, in the comments on YouTube, never to my face. They were just like, we didn't think that you looked like that. I was like, I'll take it as a comfortable listen.

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

I didn't know you were so handsome.

[Matt Lewis]

No, they don't say that. They don't say that. They just go, oh, we thought you sound like an old lady essentially. Which by the way, I fully embrace my old lady Nessen actually. Yeah, no, I'm here for it anyway. Sorry, we're rambling. Thank you for listening to After Dark scent. Thank you for watching after dark on YouTube. You can leave us a five star review and gone medieval. A five star view wherever you get your podcast because it helps other people to discover us and have a nice time with history. Which is what we're all about, right?

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

That's right.

[Matt Lewis]

Learning through fun. We will be back with more medieval mayhem with Eleanor in next week's episode.

[Adam Grant]

Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of ted's podcast Rethinking with the Adam Grant. Let me share with you why smart finance leaders turn to Bill. They know that clarity isn't just helpful, it's strategic. As the intelligent finance platform, Bill uses AI to automate the busy work for nearly half a million businesses so they can focus on intentional growth, eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.compenven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's Bill.com terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details with verbocare

[Dr. Eleanor Yannaga]

Help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great

[Matt Lewis]

trip starts with peace of mind.