After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal

Episode: The Dark Truth About Madame Tussauds

Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: Anthony Delaney & Maddy Pelling

Overview

In this episode, Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling peel back the glossy, celebrity-drenched surface of Madame Tussauds to reveal its dark origins in revolutionary Paris. The conversation explores wax as both art and propaganda, the unlikely journey of Marie Grosholtz (later Madame Tussaud) from obscurity to global icon, and how the grotesque and the glamorous have always coexisted in the world of waxworks. With a blend of grim history, personal anecdotes, and dark humor, the hosts chart the evolution of wax representation from morbid fascination to pop culture staple.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Waxworks: The Art and its History

• Origins of Wax Modeling

  • Wax as a medium dates back to Roman times—for death masks and religious offerings, straddling the scientific, religious, and artistic worlds.
  • In pre-modern Europe, wax's malleability and accessibility made it a tool especially available to women, excluded from working in marble or bronze.
  • Notable early modern examples: Royal funerary effigies in Westminster Abbey, philosopher Jeremy Bentham’s preserved—though wax-faced—body.

    "Wax has a really long history... it's incredibly malleable, diverse, interesting material that can literally shapeshift." – Maddy (07:16)

• The Uncanny Power of Wax Figures

  • The lifelike, sometimes eerie resemblance provoked both fascination and personal phobias.

    “There's something really, really, really sinister about them when they are badly done…that’s more unsettling to me.” – Maddy (06:59)

  • The appeal lies in proximity to celebrity and infamy: standing as close as possible to both royalty and criminals, as in the earliest Parisian exhibitions.

Marie Grosholtz: From Orphan to Wax Prodigy

(11:16 – 13:40)

• Early Life & Apprenticeship

  • Born in Strasbourg, 1761, left destitute after her father's death.
  • Her mother became a housekeeper for Dr. Philippe Curtius, a wax anatomist in Bern, Switzerland.
  • Marie observed and then assisted Curtius, remarkably allowed into the world of wax anatomy as a young girl.

    “To be set to work in Curtius’s studio dealing with fleshy parts of dead people...I just think that’s the most remarkable thing.” – Maddy (12:53)

• Paris Move & Rise

  • Curtius moved the household to Paris in the mid-1760s; Marie became his apprentice.
  • Curtius began creating public wax exhibitions, blending anatomical models and likenesses of famous and infamous figures—aristocrats alongside criminals.

Wax as Weapon: The Revolution and the Terror

(28:08 – 34:47)

• Waxworks in Revolutionary France

  • As revolution broke out, wax figures became potent political tools: effigies of supporters and reformers like Necker and the Duke d’Orleans were paraded by mobs.
  • Wax representations became politically dangerous; their makers were seen as wielders of influence.

• Marie’s Imprisonment and Survival

  • Marie was arrested as a royal sympathizer and imprisoned at La Force, reportedly sharing a cell with Josephine de Beauharnais (future Empress).

    "Did this really happen? She’s reported to share a cell with Josephine... How unlikely do we buy this?" – Maddy (29:20)

• Her Macabre Role

  • Spared execution—possibly for her talents—she was conscripted to create wax death masks of the revolutionary dead (including Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, Marat, Robespierre).

    “She is taken to the scene of his death, she is there and he is still in the bath when she is asked to do the waxwork.” – Maddy (31:26)

  • Forced to attend the guillotined and recreate their features for public consumption, Marie shifted from court artist to chronicler of death.

    "Her survival is...down to her talent and her industriousness, as you say, but also chance.” – Maddy (28:08)

Business Acumen & The London Years

(36:50 – 46:19)

• Inheritance and Independence

  • Inherits Curtius’ collection in 1794; continues Paris exhibitions, meeting post-revolution appetite for spectacle and horror.
  • Married François Tussaud (1795), gained two sons (who would inherit the business).

• Exile and Enterprise in Britain

  • 1802: Moves her show to London, cut off from returning to France by ongoing war.
  • Collaborates briefly with Phantasmagoria showman Paul Philidor; soon goes independent, touring across Britain and Ireland for decades.

    "She takes it on the road, she makes an opportunity out of a problem, and she really, really makes it work." – Anthony (42:33)

• Nature of the Exhibition

  • Shows featured grand salons (royalty, politicians, celebrities) and separate “Chamber of Horrors” (criminals, infamy, revolutionary victims).
  • Not replicas from imagination—many were based on life masks, requiring close contact with the living and the dead.

    “The grand salon...has royals, as you might expect, politicians and celebrities...Napoleon and various military leaders...” – Maddy (43:28)

  • The centerpiece: the full tableau of Jean-Paul Marat’s murder in the bath—a visceral recreation based on firsthand impressions.

    “He was still warm, and his bleeding body and the cadaverous aspect of his almost diabolical features presented a picture replete with horror. And I performed my task under the most painful sensations.” – Madame Tussaud's memoir (47:29, quoted by Maddy)

Enduring Legacy, Sensationalism, and Reflection

(51:43 – 59:47)

• Spectacle and Sensation

  • The shows capitalized on morbid curiosity; the Chamber of Horrors (named by Punch in 1846) grew to include contemporary criminals and crimes.
  • Wax figures were frequently repaired, recycled and remolded—Robespierre becoming Queen Victoria, perhaps.

    “There’s just so much stuff like that, so lots of repairs going on. ...The wax getting melted down and reused for someone else...so tantalising.” – Maddy (52:07)

• Business Savvy & Survival

  • Tussaud was a relentless entrepreneur, moving with opportunities: “tenacious and a survivor.”

    “She is determined to succeed. And succeeding doesn’t mean taking the throne at Versailles. For her it means, don’t quash me, I will survive.” – Anthony (54:06)

  • Published her own memoirs, self-fashioning her myth and inserting spectacle into both her narrative and her business.

• Legacy & Historical Value

  • Debate over whether Tussaud is a chronicler of history or a creator of spectacle. Her original waxworks (like her self-portrait) remain historically unique, providing visceral connections to her era.

    “She’s amazing and hideous, talented and tasteless all at the same time.” – Maddy (57:39)

• Modern Reflections

  • Both Anthony and Maddy reflect on their lack of interest in today’s Madame Tussauds and the desensitization of modern audiences to wax’s former power.

    "I've never been to Madame Tussauds. ...To see whatever pieces of original, actually Marie Groeschel's Madame Tussaud wax that still exists somewhere in a collection...I would see those in a heartbeat." – Anthony (57:39) “What I would like to do...would be to travel back in time and go to one of Madame Tussaud's shows, ...to believe that you are stood in the presence of the King of France, or whoever it is. I think that would be so powerful.” – Maddy (59:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Waxwork starts to stand in for the real people themselves... waxwork has this incredible power, it therefore is dangerous.”
  — Maddy (28:08)

• “She is a self fashioner. ...she creates people out of wax. She's no stranger to conjuring famous moments, famous people, famous anecdotes and inserting them into her own show, into her own life, into her own story.”
  — Maddy (55:07)

• “She is tenacious and a survivor, ...determined to succeed. And succeeding doesn’t mean taking the throne at Versailles. For her it means, don’t quash me, I will survive.”
  — Anthony (54:06)

• “She's amazing and hideous, talented and tasteless all at the same time.”
  — Maddy (57:39)

• “I've never been to Madame Tussauds. ...To see whatever pieces of original ... Madame Tussaud wax that still exists somewhere in a collection ... I would see those in a heartbeat. ...But I'm not going to be going to modern day Madame Tussaud. It would interest me very, very little.”
  — Anthony (57:39)

• On Marat’s murder scene waxwork:
  “Magic. Right, let's leave it with a little bit of magic then.”
  — Anthony (59:48)

Key Segment Timestamps

• [02:28] – Setting the tone: Madame Tussauds’ dark origins and waxworks as political weapons
• [06:10 – 08:31] – Wax through history: death masks, religious offerings, and Maddy’s personal phobia
• [11:16 – 13:40] – Marie Grosholtz’s journey: apprenticeship with Curtius, Paris move, rise in society
• [14:33 – 16:20] – Public wax exhibitions: celebrities, criminals, and the grotesque on display
• [20:21 – 24:13] – Marie’s connection to Versailles: elite commissions and court intrigue
• [28:08 – 34:47] – Revolution and Terror: Marie’s imprisonment, survival, and forced artistry at the guillotine
• [36:50 – 40:10] – Becoming Madame Tussaud: business, inheritance, and London years
• [41:41 – 43:28] – Collaboration with Phantasmagoria, business pivots, and touring Britain
• [45:51 – 50:02] – Chamber of Horrors, centerpiece creations (Marat in the bath scene)
• [51:43 – 54:06] – Celebrity, spectacle, ongoing tours, and the evolution of the exhibition
• [55:07 – 57:39] – The tension between history and spectacle, Tussaud as self-fashioner
• [57:39 – 59:47] – Personal reflections: Modern vs. historic impact of waxworks

Tone and Style

The hosts expertly balance darkly comic banter with deep historical insight, switching from playful references to “climbing up a parent” in fear of wax dummies, to evocative detail of the revolutionary streets of Paris. Maddy brings a blend of personal fascination and distaste for waxworks, Anthony an academic curiosity and skepticism. Both revel in the strangeness of history’s intersection with the morbid and the parodic, perfectly serving the show’s “After Dark” ethos.

Conclusion

This episode draws a vivid line between the violence of the French Revolution and today's selfie-laden wax museums. It reframes Madame Tussaud not as a purveyor of mere celebrity kitsch, but as a resourceful survivor who forged art and historical memory out of blood, death, and spectacle—a woman both tasteless and talented, unsettling and endlessly fascinating.