Media’s Immigrant Crime SILENCE, and Ceasefire Blame Game, with Glenn Greenwald and Katie Pavlich, Plus Nikki Glaser's Sad Admission

Summary

Podcast Summary: After Party with Emily Jashinsky

Episode: Media’s Immigrant Crime SILENCE, and Ceasefire Blame Game, with Glenn Greenwald and Katie Pavlich, Plus Nikki Glaser's Sad Admission
Date: April 9, 2026
Host: Emily Jashinsky
Notable Guests: Glenn Greenwald & Katie Pavlich

---

Main Theme

This episode covers two main storylines:

1. The Media's Treatment of Immigrant Crime:
   Emily and guest Katie Pavlich examine the mainstream media's lack of coverage on crimes committed by illegal immigrants in the U.S., arguing these stories are underreported due to political bias.

2. The Iran Ceasefire, U.S.-Israel Relations, and the NATO Blame Game:
   Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald discusses the latest geopolitical turmoil—including the U.S.-Iran ceasefire, Israel's attack on Lebanon during the ceasefire window, Trump's reported threat to leave NATO, and the shifting conservative stance on war.

The show also touches on:

• Postwar shifts in U.S.-Israel public opinion
• Pop culture (Anna Wintour, Melania Trump, Nikki Glaser’s open relationship comments)
• Tucker Carlson’s evolving conservative critique of U.S. foreign policy

---

[05:52] — [37:52]

Segment 1: Glenn Greenwald on Iran, Ceasefire, Trump, and Media Coverage

Key Discussion Points

1. The War, the Ceasefire, and Israel's Attack on Lebanon

• Glenn highlights that just after a ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran was announced, Israel conducted major bombings in Beirut and other parts of Lebanon, killing over 250 civilians (including 82 children and 68 women).
• He stresses the confusion and duplicity among U.S., Iranian, and Israeli narratives about who the ceasefire actually covers. The Pakistani-brokered deal specified a halt to strikes among both nations and their allies, which would include Lebanon for Iran.

"It’d be like bombing New York, you know, in multiple places in Manhattan and then claiming, oh, we were just bombing the terrorists, but you kill hundreds of people."
— Glenn Greenwald [09:18]

2. Trump's NATO Threats and Political Anger

• Trump threatens to withdraw from NATO after feeling abandoned by allies who opposed his decision to go to war with Iran and Iran’s regional allies.
• Glenn views Trump's attitude as “enraged and embarrassed” with blame-shifting.

"Trump is embarrassed and enraged and looking for people to blame. And so he’s lashing out at Europe for not going and helping them win this war."
— Glenn Greenwald [11:59]

3. Is Trump in Control, or Israel?

• Emily questions who calls the shots in U.S.-Israel relations, especially when U.S. moves seem to catch Israel off guard.
• Glenn is skeptical of media narratives that suggest deep U.S.-Israel ruptures, arguing that in reality Trump “typically ends up aligning with” Netanyahu’s preferences.

"He takes into very strong consideration, the way he does for nobody else, what Benjamin Netanyahu thinks and wants, and typically ends up aligning with it."
— Glenn Greenwald [15:49]

4. Diminishing U.S. Support for Israel

• Glenn notes a historic shift in U.S. public opinion away from unconditional support for Israel—especially among young conservatives and progressives.
• He suggests Israel is facing a real diplomatic danger as core supporters age.

"Basically the only group left that likes Israel, that thinks well of Israel, are old conservatives... Young conservatives hate Israel. Are done with it."
— Glenn Greenwald [18:36]

5. Nuclear Paranoia and U.S. War Logic

• Debates the rationale for war with Iran—are nuclear weapons truly the existential threat for Israel that Netanyahu claims?
• Glenn contrasts Israeli and U.S. responses to other nuclear states (e.g. North Korea) and points out the double standard.

6. Public Morality vs. Media Indifference

• Playful analysis of a "man on the street" interview where an average woman simply says "It’s giving war crime," showing moral clarity is common in the public but absent from elite media framing.

"Just from that 20 second clip, I would vote for that woman for like, high office..."
— Glenn Greenwald [23:30]

7. "Market Logic" in Mainstream War Coverage

• Critique of CNBC’s cold, investor-focused war framing.

"That is fucking sociopathic... How do they so disconnect from like the basic human rally..."
— Glenn Greenwald [25:28]

8. Chuck Schumer’s “Opposition” and Senate Dynamics

• Emily and Glenn mock Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s halting, scripted opposition to Trump’s war powers, pointing to the lack of spine on war matters from both parties.

"How do you just keep getting lost and, and being so inarticulate when you’re literally reading words..."
— Glenn Greenwald [27:56]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Emily: "Ruta famously referred to Trump as daddy once. And then Trump had a very different reaction from Ruta. He said, all caps. NATO wasn’t there when we needed them and they won’t be there if we need them again. Remember Greenland, that big, poorly run piece of ice..." [08:50]
• Glenn: "The radical change in public opinion toward Israel and toward the US Relationship toward Israel is something that I honestly never expected to see in my lifetime." [17:30]
• Emily: "It’s like Lindsey Graham, you’re the inverse Lindsey Graham fantasizing about the Trump administration." [18:26]

---

[40:11] — [64:54]

Segment 2: Katie Pavlich on Media Silence Regarding Immigrant Crime

Key Discussion Points

1. Tragedies Ignored by Legacy Media

• Emily and Katie detail recent violent crimes committed by illegal immigrants in Virginia, Florida, and elsewhere:
  • Fairfax County, VA: Three of four murder suspects are illegal immigrants.
  • Fort Myers, FL: Haitian immigrant bludgeons gas station clerk to death after being shielded from deportation by Biden administration.
  • Deadly trucker accidents by foreign-born/unvetted drivers.
• These cases receive little national media attention; coverage often disappears when the suspect’s immigration status becomes clear.

"When they found out who the suspect was, that’s exactly when they dropped the story... And yet the media doesn’t seem to be interested..."
— Katie Pavlich [45:37, 52:27]

2. Manipulation & Underreporting

• Local authorities often obscure or misclassify the immigration component in crime statistics, e.g., calling Hispanic suspects “white” or not specifying illegal status.
• Broad lack of real vetting and public information.

"They don’t calculate it properly. So they don’t put in their statistics that this person was here in the country illegally. They oftentimes will call Hispanics whites."
— Katie Pavlich [49:21]

3. Policies Leading to Preventable Crimes

• Many instances of crime are directly linked to failures in immigration enforcement and vetting.
• Katie argues these policies deliberately devalue citizenship and endanger Americans for political and economic reasons.

"It is a deliberate act that these politicians are putting Americans in danger for. And there are benefits to them, whether it’s money, whether it’s corruption, whether it’s political power..."
— Katie Pavlich [61:07]

4. Economic, Social, and Political Impacts

• The influx of foreign-born truckers distorts the labor market, drives down wages, and puts under-qualified people on the roads.
• Katie highlights corruption in the issuing of commercial driver’s licenses to ineligible immigrants (with tragic results), and the resulting fraud and strain on public services, e.g., healthcare.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Emily: "It’s so incoherent, as you point out, though, because women are being harmed, obviously. Naturalized citizens are being harmed... immigrants basically are being harmed as well." [59:37]
• Katie: "Nothing is more humane than, A, open borders and then B, throwing out all the logical rules, like, I don’t know, being able to read English when you’re driving on the road..." [61:07]
• Emily: "That’s what those Medicaid reimbursements are like. Have you ever been in an emergency room in a sanctuary city? I mean, yeah, it’s a wild place." [64:01]

---

[67:42] — [71:11]

Segment 3: Pop Culture & Nikki Glaser's Admission

Key Discussion Points

Nikki Glaser on Open Relationships

• Emily plays a clip from Nikki Glaser’s “Call Her Daddy” interview where Glaser confesses to enjoying her boyfriend’s stories about hooking up with other women—and actively encouraging these stories to continue.
• Glaser is candid about the “sadness” possibly underlying this, admitting it’s not “normal” or a model for most women.

"I feel like I want to be very clear that I know this is not how many women feel. And I’m not encouraging any other woman...there’s probably a sadness to it, but it’s just what I’m into..."
— Nikki Glaser [68:45]

Broader Feminist & Relationship Trends

• Emily draws on research about oxytocin and female psychology, highlighting that while niche media outlets now push "crushes" or non-monogamy as "secrets to a great marriage," the push for these norms often conflicts with women's actual well-being and security.
• Argues that postmodern feminism sometimes advances models (like polyamory) that favor men, not women.

---

[71:11] — [92:44]

Segment 4: Tucker Carlson and the Conservative Foreign Policy Divide

Key Discussion Points

1. Tucker Carlson’s New Critique

• Emily analyzes Tucker Carlson’s latest monologue where he denounces Trump’s threat to “destroy civilian infrastructure,” calling it an explicit moral and Christian break from the Cold War “strongman” tradition.
• Carlson, and a subset of the modern right, challenge the post-WWII conservative consensus on foreign intervention—rooted in justifying proxy wars as defense of the weak.

"[Tucker] is... arguing that Christianity should be severed or that Christians should divorce from the Cold War consensus... That has been the basis, that’s the center...of centrist Republicans, centrist Democrats also..."
— Emily [76:51 - 81:00]

2. Historical and Theological Context

• Emily references Tom Holland’s “Dominion” and the argument that postwar universal human rights are a product of Christian values.
• She suggests a split is emerging between a Christian conservative right and a Nietzschean, “Promethean” right that valorizes power for its own sake.
• Notes the “democratization of information” makes it harder to keep the human cost of war hidden, fueling skepticism toward the old order.

Notable Quotes

• Emily: "What we’re seeing is Carlson drifting away from Hegseth, drifting away from Trump... daylight right now between Hegseth and Tucker Carlson." [87:30]
• "Whether you think Tucker’s irrelevant or you disagree with him, you hate him, he’s articulating an argument that is gaining steam and momentum regardless." [89:15]

---

Timestamped Highlights

• 09:18 — Glenn describes the scope of Israeli attacks in Beirut post-ceasefire: “It’d be like bombing New York...”
• 15:49 — Glenn: "He [Trump] takes into very strong consideration... what Benjamin Netanyahu thinks and wants..."
• 18:36 — Glenn describes collapse of pro-Israel consensus among young conservatives.
• 23:30 — Greenwald humorously praises a "random voter" for clear-eyed antiwar morality.
• 25:28 — Greenwald’s sharp condemnation of market-centric war coverage.
• 27:56 — Glenn and Emily mock Schumer’s stumbling war speech.
• 45:37 — Katie Pavlich points out every time a killer is found to be an illegal immigrant, “that’s exactly when they dropped the story.”
• 49:21 — Katie outlines methods by which cities hide immigrant crime in stats.
• 52:27 — Katie: “A woman being bludgeoned to death with a hammer on camera. So we can all see what happened there. And yet the media doesn’t seem to be interested...”
• 59:37 — Emily: “It’s so incoherent… women are being harmed... naturalized citizens are being harmed...”
• 68:45 — Nikki Glaser: “I feel like I want to be very clear that I know that this is not how many women feel... There’s a probably a sadness to it...”
• 71:11 — Emily on Tucker Carlson, postwar conservatism, and Christian vs. “Promethean” right.

---

Tone & Style

The episode is informal, punchy, and direct with a blend of serious political analysis and pop commentary. Glenn Greenwald brings sharp sarcasm and critique. Katie Pavlich is assertive, policy-driven, and urgent regarding public safety. Emily Jashinsky grounds the show with a conversational but research-informed approach, steering from humor to serious critique seamlessly.

---

Summary Table of Contents

• Main Theme
• Segment 1: Glenn Greenwald on Iran, Ceasefire, Trump, and Media Coverage
• Segment 2: Katie Pavlich on Media Silence Regarding Immigrant Crime
• Segment 3: Pop Culture & Nikki Glaser's Admission
• Segment 4: Tucker Carlson and the Conservative Foreign Policy Divide
• Timestamped Highlights
• Tone & Style

---

Transcript

[Health Insurer Spokesperson]

Behind every health care statistic is a person's face paying the price. Big Pharma just increased the prices of 350 drugs. Hospital monopolies are marking up procedures by 300%. The drug companies and hospitals set health care prices and they're too high. America's health insurers are on the side of people working hard to negotiate costs down and make health care work better for everyone. We see more than numbers. We see you.

[Emily]

So good, so good, so good.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons to rack.

[Emily]

Cause I always find something amazing. Just so many good brands.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Cause there's always something new.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

[Emily]

Welcome to afterparty, everyone. The show where we do the news a little bit later, a little bit lighter, sometimes a combination both. We're glad to have you here with us tonight. Glenn Greenwald is our guest. Also, my friend Katie Pavlich is going to stop by and we have a lot to talk about. First, make sure to support our independent journalism where we have these combinations of guests you won't find anywhere else by clicking subscribe on YouTube wherever you get your podcasts. We appreciate it so much. It really, really does help. I'm very glad to have Glenn Greenwald. He'll here. We'll bring him in in just one moment. Amidst the, quote, fragile ceasefire deal. That's what Vice President J.D. vance referred to it as earlier today. Glenn is going to give us his reaction to that. Donald Trump is threatening to pull out of NATO. Did he lose the this entire debate? Is this a taco? Not debate. Did he lose this entire geopolitical maneuver? Is it a taco? Is it a win? We're going to break it all down. You probably know Glenn's answer to that last question, but I'm also going to force him to talk about Kanye west and Anna Wintour. Why not? So Katie Pavlich is also going to stop by to break down a slew of recent cases that the media is just totally ignoring involving tragedies that were foisted on the country by people who shouldn't be here. So we're going to tell you what the legacy media is not telling you. These stories are awful and very recent and as we discuss absolutely should be headline news around the country. You could easily have headline news of this Day in and day out, but it's basically getting buried. So we'll break that down first, though. We're gonna bring Glenn in in just one moment. Wanna start though, by saying, if you are trying to focus, like me being healthier this year, you have to start with some small shifts. We all know that they can make a really big difference. That sounds counterintuitive, but it can mean, like, planning ahead so that you're living in the moment and you're not worried about getting that foggy, awful hangover the next morning after having a few drinks. A great trick is taking zebiotics pre alcohol. I probably should have had some tonight. I just got back from an event because obviously I'm in high demand on the cocktail party circuit. People just can't stop saying, Emily, please come to our events, drink our free booze. So Zebiotics is absolutely necessary. It's the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was created by PhD scientists to tackle those rough mornings. So very familiar to all of us. Alcohol creates a toxic byproduct in the gut and that buildup actually causes rough days. Pre alcohol, though, produces an enzyme to break it down. So if you make it your first drink, then drink responsibly. You'll feel your best. Tomorrow, you can reclaim your mornings. And I won't lie, I was a bit on the fence about pre alcohol. Initially, you have to remember to take it before you start drinking. Once you get used to it, it's not that hard. But if you're hanging out with some friends, you having some wine, you want to keep the conversation going. So you keep the wine going. If you started with zebiotics, you gave it a shot. Trust me, it really is the real deal. It does help. So let's be real. Usually a Friday night out means a Saturday morning in. But since I started incorporating pre alcohol, let me tell you, my glass of wine just doesn't disrupt my morning flow. Remember to remember to head to zebiotics.com afterparty and use the code AFTERPARTY at checkout for free. 15% off.

[Health Insurer Spokesperson]

Behind every health care statistic is a person's face paying the price. Big Pharma just increased the prices of 350 drugs. Hospital monopolies are marking up procedures by 300%. The drug companies and hospitals set health care prices and they're too high. America's health insurers are on the side of people working hard to negotiate costs down and make healthcare work better for everyone. We see more than numbers.

[Katie Pavlich]

We see you so good so good.

[Emily]

So good.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons to rack.

[Emily]

Cause I always find something amazing. Just so many good brands.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Cause there's always something new.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you wreck.

[Emily]

All right, all right. Let's bring in Glenn Greenwald, the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. You can find his [e-mail] Glenn, welcome. Where can I get a pill that I can take before talking to you that prevents a hangover?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, it's funny because as you were talking about that, I wanted to say, like, I did take Symbiotics earlier today, which I always do because I'm in the after party and it gets really wild here and it really helps. Like, I used to talk to you and wake up with like a horrible hangover. Not because of the alcohol, because I'm talking to you and it really helped. So, yeah, I understand that you might need one, too. I can't help you, though.

[Emily]

I like that we both had the exact same joke concept ready to go in this scenario.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I mean, it's totally, totally. As you were reading it, it emerged to me and then you took it first and I was like, all right, I'm still going to work around it. And I do think mine was better, but we can leave that for the audience to decide.

[Emily]

No, excellent and more deadpan, but we have some serious news to get to. Glenn, stop trying to distract me. The President of the United States obviously declared a ceasefire in the Iran war last night just before the deadline. And we were learning literally by the hour. It felt like today what that ceasefire actually meant, what it looked like, it's still relatively unclear. There was a 10 point plan that Iran put on the table. There's a 15 point plan the US put on the table. But now the administration is disputing some of the parts of the Iranian plan. And this is what we know about the Strait of Hormuz. Jonathan Carl, earlier today talked to Donald Trump. This is F17. We can put it on the screen. He said, quote, this morning I asked President Trump if he's okay with the Iranians charging a toll for all ships that go through the Strait of Hormuz. He told me there may be a joint US Iran venture to charge tolls. Quote, we're thinking of doing it as a joint venture. It's A way of securing it, also securing it from lots of other people. Quote, it. It's a beautiful thing. And before I toss it back to you, Glenn, this has all culminated in another pitched conflict between Donald Trump and NATO. Caroline Levitt briefed the press from the White House today. This is S4. Here's what we heard about Naito as the day went on and on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

NATO, can you tell me the United

[Katie Pavlich]

States still considering withdrawing from NATO?

[Emily]

Is that still a possibility? It's something the President has decided to discussed and I think it's something the President will be discussing in a couple of hours with Secretary General Rutte and perhaps you'll hear directly from the President following that meeting later this afternoon. Thank you. Everyone

[Glenn Greenwald]

at the very end say that the President is going to discuss with Mark Ruta, the Secretary General of NATO, the possibility of the United States withdrawing from NATO. I would imagine, Sander, that's probably going to be highly unlikely. But the President not happy. Caroline Levitt saying, quoting the President, they were tested and they failed.

[Emily]

So Mark Ruta, after this meeting with Donald Trump went on with Jake Tapper and said, quote, this was a meeting between friends because we like each other. I really admire his leadership. Ruta famously referred to Trump as daddy once. And then Trump had a very different reaction from Ruta. He said, all caps. NATO wasn't there when we needed them and they won't be there if we need them again. Remember Greenland, that big, poorly run piece of ice. President DJT what the hell is going on? Glenn GREENWALD

[Glenn Greenwald]

well, I think we have to start with the central event of today, which is the horrific massacre that Israel carried out in Beirut and other places throughout Lebanon. Obviously, the Israelis claim, as they always do, that they were targeting the terrorists, but whoever they were targeting ended up killing at least 250 people, including 82 children, 68 women, hundreds of people in Lebanon severely wounded, including all sorts of, I mean, Beirut is a very densely populated city. It'd be like bombing New York, you know, in multiple places in Manhattan and then claiming, oh, we were just bombing the terrorists, but you kill hundreds of people. And that then led to Iran saying, well, what kind of ceasefire is this? Iran is, Lebanon is our ally. And then the question emerged, you know, does this ceasefire agreement actually include Lebanon? Was the United States and therefore Israel required to not attack Lebanon? And the Americans and the Iranians begin claiming different things, but the country that mediated this agreement, and I think it's very important to keep in mind there are two agreements here. One is the long term agreement that's the 15 and 10 point plan that are the basis for the negotiations. But then there's an agreement for the ceasefire which is much simpler, but still it is an agreement as to why the Iranians and the Americans are not going to be bombing each other and attacking each other as they've been doing for 38 days in this terrible war. And that agreement was mediated by the Pakistanis. And the prime minister of Pakistan, when he announced the cease fire, explicitly said that the agreement is that for two weeks, as they work out a long term agreement, Iran and its allies and the United States and its allies will cease attacking one another and one another's allies. Obviously, for the United States, that means the Persian Gulf tyrannies, but for Iran, it means Lebanon. And the Pakistani prime minister explicitly said that means Lebanon. And obviously the Israelis. You see Israeli supporters angry about this deal. They wanted to sabotage it. And so the first thing the IDF did hours after the ceasefire was announced is they went on a horrific slaughter all throughout Lebanon, one of the worst carried out in many years, which is saying something. And the Iranians instantly said, we're not going to sit here and have a ceasefire deal when our allies in Lebanon are being massacred in this manner. And that's when they started reclosing the strait. And then the whole question is, are we going to be in a worse position? Before the war, the strait was totally open. Everybody could transit it for free. And now Iran is saying they're going to charge for it, which would obviously be a victory for the Iranians as far as NATO is concerned. I think what we're seeing here is that Trump is enraged with everybody. Last night he was talking about how cnn, other people talking about the Iran deal and what he considers an inaccuracy should be criminally investigated and even prosecuted. He's lashing out at the media, he's lashing out at NATO countries because Trump started this war without them, didn't consult with them. They never thought this war was a good idea. And now he's angry that on command they just didn't jump. The point of NATO is to defend the transatlantic alliance and the countries that compose NATO in a defensive manner. That's why the only time it was invoked was after September 11 for the United States. It was never invoked for, for Europe. And a lot of European troops went and fought with the United States and Afghanistan and Iraq and died in those, in those conflicts. But, you know, Trump is just blaming everybody else because he understands, even though he's saying that he doesn't see it that this is not a victory for the United States. At best it's a kind of tie or a standstill. But the United States is supposed to be the greatest military power on earth. This is like a middle power at best that we've been choking and sanctioning. And Trump is embarrassed and enraged and looking for people to blame. And so he's lashing out at Europe for not going and helping them win this war.

[Emily]

Well, why not lash out at Netanyahu to the point that you just made, Glenn? That question perhaps sounds naive to some people, but there is reporting that Israel was caught off guard by Trump's decision to call off the destruction of an ancient civilization with like what, 90 minutes to go and start looking at this 10 point ceasefire plan that had been reported by drop site. Its existence had been reported by drop site a while ago. It had been known to the public. We didn't know exactly what every step of plan was, but apparently the reporting is that Israel was caught off guard by this. And now on the other hand, one of the conditions it looked like was to end these proxy conflicts. Obviously today tragically proved that had not yet happened. If that was supposed to be a condition on the table, it was not yet being met. So is Trump in control of this or is Israel in control of this? Or is. If we keep going into medicines, Trump in control of Israel, he just doesn't want to have them back away.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I mean this is the kind of big question, right? Is like who's in control of this relationship? And I think we have to be extremely skeptical, I don't say just reject it of him, but be extremely skeptical of reporting that Trump did a cease fire deal about consulting Netanyahu and getting his sign off, or even that the Israelis attacked Lebanon without Trump's knowledge or approval. Because so many times in the past, typically through Barak Ravid, who, who is an Israeli reporter at Axios and was in the IDF and their, their notorious signals units have a 200. He has connections to both the Israeli and the American government. And for a year and a half now he's or longer he's been publishing these articles going back to Biden. The US and Israel are at each other's throat. The Americans are infuriated with the Israelis. The Israelis want to do this, but the Americans don't want to do this. And every time it turns out to be false. And, and even when Israel went and attacked Iran last year in June, that the United States eventually joined for one night, Trump immediately came out. Marco Rubio came out and said, we have nothing to do with this. We had no idea they were doing. This is not our thing. And then when Trump perceived it to be success, the next day, he said, I'm the one who engineered this. It was Netanyahu and I. And even leading up to that bombing, we were constantly being told, trump wants to deal, do a deal with Iran. Israel doesn't want to deal. They're angry at each other, they're diverging. And this was all kind of a ruse to lower the guard of the Iranians, to make them think that Trump wasn't going to let Netanyahu attack. That's what the reporting was. And of course, the opposite happened. So, you know, I do think that Trump wants to get out of this war simply for political reasons. He understands it's a disaster for him politically, economically, even militarily. But at the same time, for whatever reason, and we can talk about all the reasons why, clearly he is very, let's just put it as generally as possible, as generously as possible.

[Katie Pavlich]

He.

[Glenn Greenwald]

He takes into very strong consideration, the way he does for nobody else, what Benjamin Netanyahu thinks and wants, and typically ends up aligning with it.

[Emily]

Yeah. And this is where I wanted to just kind of walk through a little bit of. From Netanyahu's perspective, he believes, and, you know, it's obviously not crazy to believe that if you are Israel with an actual nuclear Iran not far away, that's an existential crisis. Iran believes that nuclear Israel already having nuclear weapons. We could get into all of that as well. But that's an existential threat to them. They exist. The United States of America has nuclear weapons, a threat to them as well, potentially. But Netanyahu's perspective on this is that Iran poses an existential threat. I don't think that's entirely irrational. If they have nuclear weapons, which they do not right now have nuclear weapons, and have offered obviously, to get on an off ramp. The question is whether you trust them, etc. But Glenn, even by that ambition, I don't know that Netanyahu has made his country more safe throughout this process by. Or that Donald Trump, by his own actions, have made Israel more safe, Americans more safe, by pushing this war and then ending with potentially Iran in charge of the Strait of Hormuz, charging tolls that will allow it to reconstitute its missile supply from where it was before the war relatively quickly. Drone supply from where it was before the war relatively quickly. Quickly. You may disagree with some of what I laid out there, but I'm curious For your take.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, to begin with, you know, Israel has been dependent on the United States for its security, for its financing, for its military, for pretty much everything going back decades and for a long time, pretty much since I've been born, there's been a bipartisan consensus that in the United States that you support Israel and you give it everything it wants. And politically it was basically untenable to do anything else. People had their careers destroyed if they tried to dissent. I cannot express, obviously, polling data shows this in the most shocking way. But just as somebody who has covered this issue for more than 20 years, Israel. I've always been a harsh critic of Israel in the US Israeli relationship. The radical change in public opinion toward Israel and toward the US Relationship toward Israel is something that I honestly never expected to see in my lifetime. It was like, even if you dream about something, some cause that you believe, you kind of dare to dream, but not so much that you're gonna inevitably disappointed.

[Emily]

It's like Lindsey Graham, you're the inverse Lindsey Graham fantasizing about the Trump administration.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And he, but he's getting everything he wants, like in a way that he never thought was possible at this point. Second Trump administration, which is a whole nother bizarre issue that somehow he and Mark Levin and the neocons that Trump vowed to vanquish are the people who seem to be getting everything they want from this presidency. But so that's, that's the first thing is this is a big danger for Israel. That. And it's not. You know, basically the only group left that likes Israel, that thinks well of Israel are old conservatives. Like conservatives over. Not even like over 30, like conservatives over 50 or 60. Like, basically the people have been feeding on Fox News for three decades and getting their news about the world from Sean Hannity. That's it. Young conservatives hate Israel. Are done with it. The entire. You can't be a politician Democratic Party basically, and take money from aipac. It's radioactive and poisonous. This is such a radical change and it's replicating itself in every country. I mean, all throughout Europe, same polling data in Latin America, in Africa, people are seeing what Israel is doing, whether they're right or wrong. You can just set that aside. So that is a major security threat to Israel, that the whole world is starting to really hate it. And then on top of that, you know, this question of nuclear weapons. There are a lot of countries that have nuclear weapons, including countries that we're told are completely insane, like North Korea. And it was a big danger, supposedly, that India and Pakistan were going to get nuclear weapons because they have such. They hate each other almost as much as the Israeli and Palestinians. But going back, you know, hundreds of years, and yet, you see, North Korea has ballistic.

[Emily]

Well, I was gonna say North Korea also has ballistic missiles with a range that's further than Iran. They already have those. Like the freak out over Diego Garcia. North Korea can already cover the whole globe.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Exactly. So why don't we wake up petrified about North Korea? It's because human beings, whatever you want to say about Iran, oh, they're this apocalyptic doomsday cult. I see a lot more of that in other countries, like. Like Israel and increasing the United States. But even if they are, we're all, as human beings were endowed with this very strong will to live. And all of us are willing to sacrifice our lives in pursuit of a cause. Everybody who joins the military in the United States is basically saying, I'm willing to die to defend my country. You know, Patrick Henry, this was the ethos of the United States. Give me liberty or give me death. Like, I'm willing to give my life for a cause. This doesn't make you a crazy person. But Iran has done nothing that suggests they're suicidal, that if they did have a nuclear weapon, they would attack Israel knowing that they would be instantly obliterated as a civilization off of the planet. But that said, you know, last June, when Trump bombed Iran, he said, and it's still up on the White House website, that that bombing campaign, quote, totally and completely obliterated Iran's nuclear program. And when reporters said to him, hey, like, are you going to come back in six months and tell us we have to go to war with Iran again because they have a new nuclear program, he said, how dare you impugn the competence and courage of our pilots. And you're spreading fake news. And yet here we are now in another major war being told that we have to go stop this nuclear program that right on the White House website says was totally and completely obliterated eight months ago, and which Tulsi Gabbard, under oath, said is a country that has never abandoned the 2003 fatwa from the Supreme Leader that they will not get a nuclear weapon. They want a nuclear energy program is the right of every country. The country that has a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons and a doctrine called the Samson option to use it against multiple countries if they feel that their existence is threatened, is Israel. To me, that's the scariest country with nuclear weapons. And even if everything you said is true, that, like Netanyahu rationally perceives Iranian nuclear program or the Iranian nuclear weapons to be a threat to Israel. Why are we going to war over that? Let Israel resolve that. That's what countries, you know, are supposed to do, is they're supposed to learn to live with their neighbors and fight if they can. But why are, why are Israeli threats? Are, are always. Are our wars?

[Emily]

Well, and it goes further to your point about public opinion. I had to get your reaction to this interview. It was like a man on the street interview and a woman's response to trump. Let's roll. S6 is giving war crime.

[Katie Pavlich]

You can't do that.

[Emily]

We don't just annihilate people because we can and, you know, make a grab

[Katie Pavlich]

for the money and the oil.

[Emily]

And that's what we've done in Venezuela and that's what we're doing in Iran. I mean, spot the leg, Glenn.

[Katie Pavlich]

It's.

[Emily]

That was Ms. Now it's giving war crime. She's.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, I mean, I know we're supposed to focus on, like, her use of this, like, Gen Z jargon or whatever, which I think came from gay culture. Like, all new trends come from either black culture or gay culture. I think this one came from gay culture. Not that I would know, but I do have a couple gay friends who claim that, though. They always want to claim credit for everything.

[Emily]

But everyone says it doesn't mean that you have street credibility. Having gay friends gone, it doesn't count.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I know, but I just, I do have a couple and I just, I know a lot of people think I'm very homophobic. So I just want to be clear. When I know about gay culture, it's because I have, I do have a couple of friends who are telling me that. Not because I would know otherwise, but, like, I think this woman is, is a voter in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district now. Marjorie Taylor Greene's old district, right? That's what, where they interviewed her. And I mean, I mean this honestly. Like, just from that 20 second clip, I would vote for that woman for, like, high office, like Congress or some, like, big state office in Georgia. Because, and this is why I like Marjorie Taylor Greene. Because Marjorie Taylor Greene always went around saying the people in her district are like this woman. They don't wake up wanting war. They don't wake up worried about Venezuela or Maduro or all these things Trump is focused on are the Iranians. And I don't think that woman is on the left. I'd be willing to bet anything she's not but she just has this, like, innate sense that it's wrong for the United States to just go around starting wars to steal people's oil and to start wars for any reason other than because countries attack us or are about to. And I think that's why this war has been so unpopular from the start. Not because people love Iran, but because we learned our lesson through all these wars we lived through. And that's why Trump was elected in the first place. This was his big appeal is we're not going to have any more of these wars. And I think there are a ton of people like that woman who are using her common sense and our basic morality to understand why this is just totally wrong.

[Emily]

Well, let's check in on a the state of the Fourth Estate and be the state of Trump's opposition. So first we'll roll S7. This is CNBC. Is coverage of the war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Katie Pavlich]

Deadline that President Trump has set. APM has threatened to destroy a civilization. How does an investor process that? Is it. Is it a bigger upside risk or downside risk?

[Emily]

Is it a bigger upside risk or downside risk? What are you doing, Glenn? What did you do with your. With your portfolio?

[Glenn Greenwald]

That really. It'd be like saying the Germans are building these concentration camps and they're incinerating millions of Jews. Like, what do you think that might have? What kind of impact do you think might have on the Dow or the S and P? Like, should investors be wary of this? Should they be excited by it? I mean, I don't know if she intended that. We all have our moments, especially live, like, where we don't represent ourselves well, but that is fucking sociopathic. And I mean, just like, the. What just. It's not even like, okay, you want to analyze a war, like, coldly. Okay. And still say that. I still think it's pretty disturbing. But she explicitly said she's like, hey, there. So there's this possibility of civilizational annihilation. That's what the president is threatening. We might have that overnight. How should investors think of this? Like, what should they do? Is there an upside? And you say, yeah, where do you. Where do you grow? Like, where do these people come from? How do they so disconnect from, like, the basic human rally that we just talked about that. That random voter in Georgia having.

[Emily]

It felt like a scene out of Don't look up the David Sirota Netflix movie where this is like, exactly parodied. It could be ripped from. I actually saw that tweet because I saw that video because Sirota tweeted it. And meanwhile.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, me too.

[Emily]

Here's Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, the opposition to Donald Trump, with a robust, strongly worded response.

[Chuck Schumer]

S6 all of this happens when one man, especially a man acting as unhinged as Donald Trump, has unchecked power to wage war. He backs himself into a corner with dangerous, escalating rhetoric. The entire world holds its breath, wondering what's next going to come out of his mouth and can he ever find a way out? A commander in chief who is truly in control would never have gotten into this colossal mess to begin with. That is exactly why I am announcing. I am announcing that today. The Senate will vote next week on the War Powers Resolution. Congress must reassert its authority, especially at this dangerous moment.

[Emily]

Oh, thank you, Chuck Schumer. Maybe you should have done that in Libya.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You know, first of all, Emily, you know, you and I speak in part for a living. And I don't think I've ever been as halting or as incoherent in my statements extemporaneously as Chuck Schumer was there, even though he's reading a prepared script like, how do you just keep getting lost and, and being so inarticulate when you're literally reading words that were written for you by some aid that you probably read twice or three times beforehand? And I do think it's a huge problem that we can talk about some other time, that we're basically a government in a country run by very old people who are just wearing down, who are just slower. But I also think, like, you have to go back to last year when Trump said that he wanted to have a deal, a diplomatic deal with Iran to avoid a war. Chuck Schumer came out and started mocking Trump. That's where that whole taco thing became popularized, not by Chuck Schumer, but at the time it was. And Chuck Schumer was taunting and mocking Trump for resolving this dispute with Iran diplomatically because he is a lifelong Israel supporter and wanted a war with Iran and was daring Trump. And you see a lot of Democrats doing that now as well. Like Chris Murphy was saying, this is a pathetic deal that Trump got. Yet a Democrat from Connecticut, he's supposed to be even like a liberal Democrat, left liberal. And he's basically saying this deal is too favorable to Iran. I hope it doesn't get ratified and I hope this doesn't get accepted, meaning I want the war to continue. And it's so dangerous. If you're a Democrat who's been going around saying this war is you know, an atrocity, it's extremely dangerous. Why would you then turn around and basically try and force Trump into restarting the war by telling him that his deal is too favorable to Iran and he's been humiliated. It's like they, they want this war to continue on some level.

[Emily]

Yeah, it's. I mean, if you're Chuck Schumer, I'm sure you do want this war to continue on some level. Your entire record as a senator suggests you're pretty upset. Is he. Is your impression.

[Glenn Greenwald]

He voted for the Iraq war. He voted for the Iraq war. And by the way, for people who don't know, you mentioned Libya and I in congressional. I think this is such an overlooked fact, Emily. Like, it shocks me every time I remember it. It isn't that Obama went to war in Libya, obviously, a country that hadn't attacked us without congressional approval. The House of Representatives at the time was controlled by the Republican Party. It was John Boehner and a bunch of like, you know, increasingly right wing members of the House. And they voted on whether this war should be authorized and they voted against it. They rejected authorization of military force for Libya and Obama ignored it and went ahead and prosecuted the war anyway.

[Emily]

Right? Yes. And I don't know, I find that,

[Glenn Greenwald]

I find it insane sometimes that people don't get more, like, upset about that.

[Emily]

Well, and with the support of Democrats who are still running the party.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Right, right. Although they were a minority, like the, the authorization was rejected by Congress and Obama just said, I don't care, I'm going to just continue this war anyway. And of course, it destroyed Libya, created a gigantic migrant problem for Europe, brought slavery and ISIS to, to Libya, shattered it into a thousand pieces. And I think that's what Netanyahu and his allies in the US Like Chuck Schumer want for Iran.

[Emily]

It's a good point. Glenn, before I let you go, I know you mentioned that you have a couple of gay friends, so I wanted to, I don't want to stereotype or anything. I did want to get to Anna Wintour and Meryl Streep's new interview in Vogue ahead of the Devil Wears Prada sequel release, where Anna Wintour finally took a swipe at Melania Trump, who back in 2005 actually was on the COVID of Vogue, an impressive feat. Of course, this is what Wintour said, quote, I don't think wearing a power suit to the office is in any way necessary. Think about the women that one admires. Mrs. Obama comes to mind, whether she's wearing J. Crew or Duro Oluwu or Matthew Blasey Chanel. She always looks like herself. I'm full of admiration for New York City's new first lady because she looks so cool and wears a lot of vintage, young and modern and also entirely herself. To be fair, Melania Trump also always looks like herself when she dresses. Meryl Streep then took the opportunity to whine once again about Melania Trump's enigmatic I don't care, do you? Jacket from like 10 years ago. Glenn, why are we still having top fashion people compare Michelle Obama favorably to Melania Trump in the year of our Lord 2026?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not gay, but I love to talk about Anna Winter and Meryl Streep. These are divas and icons. You know, I just like, so obsessed with them. No, I mean, this is there. We all basically have moved past like peak wokeism and worshiping Michelle Obama because she's a black woman and, and like all this language about how she navigates the world in her own, like, strength and occupies spaces and all that. But we.

[Emily]

Emphasis on the strength.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Oh yeah, she's very strong. She's really strong woman. We all have that. But like she, but, but there's a sector of kind of like the dunce faction that kind of like pays attention to politics but like in the Hollywood celebrity way that doesn't. Hasn't moved past, that can't move past it. They don't really have the capacity to interpret the world in any other way. And so they're still stuck on like just nastily and gratuitously criticizing Melania Trump even though, you know, whatever you say about Melania Trump, she's extremely, an extremely beautiful woman. I think she's conducted herself quite well under the circumstances as the first lady. I don't even when I have the greatest animosity for Trump, it never spills over on to her. But this is like petty and pathetic and trivial. But it just shows like, like they're kind of like the triviality of their politics and how they're just, you know, permanently stuck there.

[Emily]

No, I have to say I think I really agree with that because if you're wintour, you're this ultra wealthy cloistered somebody who's really treated. I mean, the entire point of the Devil Wears Prada is that she's constantly treated like royalty and is super insulated to the point where she can just command the next Harry Potter vote Harry Potter book on a whim. Again, this is fictionalized. I'm not saying there's any real representation, that would be ridiculous. But if you're in a position of that level of power, you're totally insulated in a way from like, fashion, actual fashion, which isn't just clothing, but like the cultural fashion of the time. So you revert to where you are stuck and like, where you were before. You were totally that cloistered and that rich and that powerful.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, you see. I think you see this with political pundits as well. Like the ones who came of age and like the late 80s, the early 1990s, like the boomer ones, where the idea was the Democratic Party was too far to the left with Michael Dukakis and Walter Mondale and needed Bill Clinton, this moderate centrist, to realign the Democratic Party with the military industrial complex and Wall Street. And they never move beyond this. This idea that, oh, the Democratic Party is too far to the left. Even though we're in a completely different framework, they don't evolve with it. But the other thing about Anna Winter, obviously she's trying to convey that she has this sort of liberal policy, this liberal political ethos and sensibility. Aside from being completely cloistered. The whole point of Anna Winter and the whole myth of Anna Winter and it was reflected in this film, was that she's incredibly abusive to her.

[Emily]

Looks like Glenn froze briefly.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Am I back?

[Emily]

Yeah, you're back. Glenn, you were mid rant about. Yeah, you're back. You're. You're mid rant about how Anna Wintour is abusive.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, she's abusive to her workers. She's abusive to underlings. And this is obviously the antithesis of this liberal value and these liberal sensibilities. She's pretending that she represents. And it just makes me sick.

[Emily]

Oh, that's such a good.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We all love Anna Winter. She's a diva.

[Emily]

Diva queen. But no, it's such a good point because the entire re release of or the entire sequel to Devil Wears Product celebrating her, the idea that she's doing this joint interview with the woman who's this fictional iteration that was meant to. I mean, if I were the author of this book, seeing Meryl Streep and Anna Wintour like Buddy Buddy would be somewhat offensive to the art that this is all based on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, I mean, I guess if. If you're the producer of this film and you want Meryl Streep to have to go promote it, having this kind of moment that we're now talking about and therefore talking about the film, I guess.

[Emily]

Did you know it's coming out in theaters?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I didn't buy your ticket. You forced me to pay attention to this by telling me we might talk about it. But you know, I guess it's clever in that way. But yeah, like as art, which, which they constantly refer to themselves as. If it's supposed to be this searing indictment of the character and integrity of Anna Winter, then exactly. Why is the beloved actress who's playing her and showing her kind of dark and dead in soul now being so amiable with her? It. Yeah, I think that's a really good point as well.

[Emily]

Oh, there. Everything that I say is a really good point. So there's no need.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, that was the first one since we started.

[Emily]

I really wish there was zebiotics for Glenn Greenwald conversations, but unfortunately, here we are. Make sure that you follow Glenn on substack. It's so exciting. Exciting that Glenn's on substack. It's Greenwald substack.com I've been loving it. Head on over there, Glenn. Thank you so much.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Always great to see you, Emily. Have a good evening.

[Emily]

You too. All right, we will be, we'll be back in just one moment. But first, it's spring. And if you're looking for real results, better gut health, glowing skin, stronger hair, steady energy. I always we talk about the new year. For me, it's spring. Spring is like it's the time of renewal. It's summer's coming up. So you can start with colostrum. If any of those things are your goals. When your gut is balanced, everything else improves. And today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers premium bovine colostrum sourced entirely from American grass fed cows and made in the usa. Unlike many brands, it uses true first day whole colostrum that's packed with bioactives like immunoglobulins and growth factors. But don't worry, only the surplus colostrum is collected after calves are fully nourished. Always good to know that now Cowboy Colostrum is unprocessed, full fat and protein, rich for maximum nutrient density. And supporting your gut can boost immunity, reduce bloating and improve skin, hair, nails and energy levels. These are results that you can actually see and feel just in time for the summer, by the way. So it's easy to enjoy with natural flavors like chocolate, Madagascar vanilla, matcha and strawberry, all made from real ingredients. My favorite is the strawberry. It's super, super easy to use. You just add a scoop to your coffee or smoothie and you feel the difference all day long. So for a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com afterparty and and use code AFTERPARTY at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code [e-mail] afterparty so good. So good, so good.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons

[Emily]

to rack, because I always find something amazing.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Just so many good brands because there's always something new.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

[Kiana (Shopify Advertiser)]

I'm Kiana, and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted. Start your free [e-mail].

[Emily]

all right, I'm excited now to bring in Katie Pavlich, who is, of course, the host of Katie Pavlich Tonight. I had the chance to sit down with her earlier today. She's about to go live on News Nation right now. So she can't do the 9pm hour because she's got the 10pm hour to hold down over on News Nation. But we had a very helpful discussion. Katie has covered immigration her entire career. She's from a border state. She's done a lot of reporting in that border state and all over the country. So there's been just a flurry of tragedies getting very little attention in the legacy media when it comes to American citizens being preyed upon, victimized by people who shouldn't be here. 100 of these crimes are preventable. So let's go ahead and bring Katie in. Well, I'm very happy to be joined by my friend Katie Pavlich, host of Katie Pavlich Tonight, which airs on weekdays at 10pm Eastern weeknights. I should really say 10pm Eastern over on News Nation. Katie, thanks for coming on.

[Katie Pavlich]

Hey, Emily, thanks for having me. Great to see you.

[Emily]

Can I just start by asking about the news show? You're hosting your own show, and NewsNation is itself kind of an upstart competitor to the cable networks. One of which you were on for many, many years. What's it been like to kind of do you feel? What's it been like to be in this new kind of media climate at an upstart place like News Nation helming your own show?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Katie Pavlich]

I mean, it's first of all, very exciting because it's in D.C. and as you know, and I've told this to you before many times is working in D.C. is like dog years. One feels like seven. But especially now with the second Trump administration, I feel like every day is historic in Washington, and the press is the first thing that writes the rough draft of American history. So being a part of that is always been really fun. But I feel like now, when the news cycle runs so quickly in this town and there's so much happening every single day, that I wanted to be more focused and based in Washington. And News Nation gave me the opportunity to do that every single night on Capitol Hill, talking about the biggest issues of the day, interviewing and talking to people who are making big decisions on behalf of not just the country, but things that affect the entire world. And so in terms of News Nation, you know, they started about five years ago. They are only growing. They have this mentality of it's kind of scrappy and fun to get into this new thing, and we're building something exciting. And for me, I'm in a new position where I'm challenged every day and this creative process to put together a show and to think about what people are interested in, to tell stories from a different perspective. As you know, the media is full of lots of different people who have very similar viewpoints and perspectives on things. And so newsation, seeing the opportunity to add me to their lineup as someone who has a different perspective, not just at the network, but also just generally in Washington and the New York D.C. corridor, I thought was a really good thing for them to do and an interesting opportunity for me as well.

[Emily]

Yeah, I love it. I mean, especially in primetime. A great example of your coverage that sets you apart as a journalist going back to the very beginning of your career, when I was a baby. This kid is old.

[Katie Pavlich]

We both were babies.

[Emily]

That's true. I did bring you to my college campus, though, to prove that I'm younger. That's true.

[Katie Pavlich]

You are younger. That's true. I will.

[Emily]

I will say, I'll admit a student. Okay. Anyway, so. But, Katie, going back to the beginning of your career, you've covered immigration, and I don't know if I've ever seen the national media less interested in covering immigration than right now. Obviously there's a lot happening in these news cycles, but there's just been this tragic flurry of awful incidents involving illegal immigration. And this is one of the things I want to talk to you most about because I feel like it is getting very, very little coverage elsewhere. Let's start in your home state of Virginia where this is. Again, there are people in the media, national media, who live in Fairfax county, who live in Northern Virginia. You know this, Katie, but it's absolutely insane. Nick Minock has reported, quote, so far there have been four murder cases in Fairfax county this year. Three of the four suspected killers are illegal immigrants, including Abdul Jalot, who is charged with murdering Stephanie Minter, a single mother, at a bus stop. Before that, Steve Discano's office dropped multiple felony charges against Jalo even though police told Discounto's office in writing that Jalot could kill someone. This week seven News was the first report that an illegal immigrant killed his three month old baby daughter and another illegal immigrant killed a man by repeatedly stabbing him with a machete in Fairfax County. These stories are not in the national media at all. I mean, seriously, it was, it was hard enough with a Sheridan Gorman story which basically got buried after the wires did their write ups and there was the breaking news coverage. It basically disappeared in my case until

[Katie Pavlich]

they found a suspect. And when they sat and found out who the suspect was, that's exactly when they dropped the story. Right? It was like, oh, an illegal alien from Venezuela who is let out of local jail after, after having a rap sheet a mile long who was led in under the Biden administration. Watching the narrative of this just issue generally that I want to get to the specifics of the story. The horrific stories that you just talked about, we've gone from over the years, well, it doesn't matter because illegal aliens commit crimes at lesser rates than American citizens to essentially this, this local prosecutor in Fairfax county making it a point to specifically release illegal aliens who have committed crimes simply because they are here illegally. It's almost like a check mark. Well, if they have this and they get a free pass on a lot of these issues, so they've gone from tolerating it and justifying it in some weird way, even though none of these crimes should be taking place at all because these people shouldn't be in the country to then saying, well, we're actually going to give these people a pass because they're somehow being persecuted by the federal government through the enforcement of immigration laws that were passed by Congress. It's Completely outrageous. There are real victims here. People are being murdered, particularly women, which I find interesting that the media, who constantly focuses on that issue and narrative is right for them, aren't interested in talking about it. Now, we had a friend of Stephanie Minter on the show a couple weeks ago, and she actually was in jail with Stephanie Minter because they were addicts and they were out of jail. They were getting their lives together. Stephanie was at this bus stop and was murdered in cold blood by this illegal alien. And her friend was talking all about how, look, I understand you have to enforce the law or these things can they start happening and they continue to happen and you put people in danger. And I just did not understand the logic from the media side, which is supposed to stand up for Citizens Against Bad Policy, ignoring these stories, but then in these sick, weird ways, dropping them when the suspect doesn't fit the right person who they want to highlight, or somehow weirdly justifying the reason that it happened and not showing any concern about it happening to someone else. I mean, having this happen multiple times in Fairfax county is an absolute atrocity, but it's happening all over the country. And just in the lead up to where we are with this, we're seeing a lot of this happening because the people were let in over the course of the past four years of the Biden administration. But I've been covering this, as you mentioned, I'm from Arizona, so I felt like I lived it for a long time in a border state and was warning early on when I came to D.C. and watching these policies, every state's going to become a border state. Virginia is not technically a border state. And yet here we are, right? Georgia is not a border state. And yet you have Lake and Riley, who was murdered there. Illinois, for example, is not considered a border state. And yet you have Mexican cartels running the streets of Chicago and making it uniquely dangerous. And so now you're seeing, now the border is closed, little coverage of how that happened, what's happening now to keep it closed, what kind of technology we're using to make sure that people aren't coming in and out. But now you're seeing this problem with the people who are here, who are criminals, who are not vetted. We are told over and over again by the federal government, these people were vetted. We know who they are. Of course, they were never vetted. You can't vet them against a system that doesn't exist. And now you have story after story and some of them that we don't even know about. Quite frankly, because a lot of these jurisdictions in these blue cities, they don't calculate it properly. So they don't put in their statistics that this person was here in the country illegally. They oftentimes will call Hispanics whites. So they're manipulating and cooking the books in a lot of ways.

[Emily]

The George Zimmerman classic. Yes, the white class.

[Katie Pavlich]

Or they'll say they're a Maryland man or a man from Maine or a man from Michigan. They don't talk about the fact that they are here from a foreign country when they came and the fact that most of the time they were here in the country illegally and not that they have a criminal record. So these are, by the way, I

[Emily]

just saw this with an Irish, an Irish guy.

[Katie Pavlich]

It doesn't matter if you're here legally. Right. You could be from anywhere. And there are people here from everywhere committing crimes and against innocent people and changing people's lives forever. And it doesn't seem like the media matter or media cares. And on our show, what we tried, what we've been doing with Ali Bradley, who's a border reporter, is we have her come on and do a full segment once a week about the worst of the worst, who's being arrested with their mug shots, what their record is, what they're being arrested for now, where they're from. So Americans can see this is not just some innocent Maryland man. These are hardened criminals from all over the globe who've come into the country. And now they're being, you know, the law is being forced, at least in a way that possible. And we're showing people who they are because the media as a whole has tried to make this, this abstract issue, and it's actually very, very real.

[Emily]

And one of the reasons they're probably not covering it is these early results of Abigail Spanberger's approval rating. This is, she won by 15 points, the great hope of the Democratic Party's future, if you, if you listen to some of the party's analysts. And her approval rating is actually lower than Glenn Youngkin's, according to a new Washington Post poll. And she's doing poorly with black voters. She won by a much larger margin than Youngkin did. But in a poll last fall, the same poll last fall, he ended his term with 50% approval and 46% disapproval. Spanberger is 13 percentage points lower than the average for Virginia governors. Her approval rating right now is at 47%, 46% disapproval. That's margin of error type of stuff, Katie. So perhaps it's one of the reasons we aren't seeing as much coverage of this in the media. I mean, how much have you heard about this story out of Florida? This is graphic, the story out of Florida. Incredibly graphic and breaking. You know, within weeks of Sheridan Gorman. We can go ahead and roll the video. We're not going to play the full video. That's how graphic it is. This is out of Fort Myers, Florida. Horrifying, horrifying story. The suspect who was charged of murdering an innocent gas station clerk in Fort Myers, Florida by bludgeoning her to death with a hammer is a Haitian illegal alien who was caught and released at the border by the Biden administration in 2022. An immigration judge ordered Robert Joaquim deported from the U.S. later that year. But DHS says the Biden admin shielded him for deportation by granting him TPS Temporary Protected Status, which expired in 2024. Barely anywhere in the national media today, Katie, this happened just days ago.

[Katie Pavlich]

Again, a woman being bludgeoned to death with a hammer on camera. So we can all see what happened there. And yet the media doesn't seem to be interested because their narrative of, you know, the intersectionality of oppression somehow. This man is from Haiti, so therefore he's oppressed. He's had a hard life. Maybe there's some kind of justification for this. How dare we try to deport people like this before they go and commit these crimes? I mean, it's absolutely asinine. It makes absolutely no sense. And I've heard the argument, well, you can't, you know, there's, there's so many illegal aliens into the country. You can't just assume that they're going to commit a crime. Well, a crime has already been committed when you come into the country illegally. First of all, you can argue whether it should be or what it shouldn't be. But we are a sovereign nation and I've traveled to 30 plus countries all over the world and you can't just walk right in. In fact, border policies around the world are quite strict. And so this idea that we're just supposed to trust that people are good people in a society, the way that you do that is through obeying the law, you have the same set of standards for everybody, no matter where you're from. And when you allow certain people to commit crimes for the sake of a narrative or an ideology or because you want to trust that they're good people, these types of things continue to happen. It's not about discrimination, it's not about race, it's not about necessarily where you're from. Although there is data to show that when people come from certain places, they have different cultural values than people in the United States do. And therefore certain crimes are committed at higher rates. But this idea that we just a let these people in, allow them to commit asylum fraud and then commit crimes with very little attention and in places like Virginia, Florida, luckily, is a place where when you commit crimes like this, you go to jail for a very long time and then allow them to reoffend in this violent manner. It doesn't make sense to the average American. And it's dangerous. It's quite dangerous. And the role of the government is to protect their constituents from this type of danger. It's not to take their money or to control their lives, but to protect them from this type of danger. And the Biden administration put Americans into very dangerous, vulnerable situations by importing millions of people and they have no idea who they are. They have no clue.

[Emily]

Right, right. Even some minors who were supposed to be supervised when they were let into the country that the Biden administration lost track of, the Trump administration is obviously trying to fix that problem, as did the Biden administration when it became public in the New York Times. This was actually a great New York Times investigation when it came out several years ago. But it's not even just these violent crimes. I mean, in a period of about a couple of years, I think there were about 35 murder homicide cases with illegal aliens. I mean, that's compared to the number of people who should be in this country illegally insane. 100% of race crimes were. Yeah, 100% of that is preventable. So talk to those families. The same thing with DUIs, dozens like

[Katie Pavlich]

identity fraud, identity fraud, stealing people's banking information.

[Emily]

This is where I was just going to go, Katie, because one of the things that people rarely ever Talk about is F9. We can put the Daily Caller headline up on the screen here. They had a news story just today, exclusive. Illegal Pakistani trucker nabbed after allegedly killing American in head on highway collision. We've seen more than one of these stories. I think they are sticking with a lot of people every time you hear them. Sean Duffy talks about this a lot, obviously. Transportation Secretary. These stories are insane. They're completely insane. So this is according to ice. In March, a Pakistani national accused of killing a Maryland Father of two in a horrific 2023 highway crash. This is according to information shared with the dcnf. Hussein was operating a tractor trailer when he allegedly drove in the opposite direction along a Pennsylvania highway and collided with another vehicle, disregarding A wrong way sign and a one way indicator sign. Hussein drove his big rig into I83 south and accelerated to 44 mph northbound on southbound lane. In October, he killed a naturalized US citizen named Andre Nunes, a father. And this is absent from the major media headlines.

[Katie Pavlich]

What? Emily, so basic journalism is okay, who, when, why, what, how did, what, what are all the factors of this story? And you ask why especially and how did this happen? This happened because this person can't read English. This happened because this person doesn't understand road signs. And the idea that in America today you can get a commercial driver's license to drive a multi ton vehicle on the highway or the freeway at 80 miles an hour with your fellow citizens and not understand what the words stop or one way mean is so outrageously mind blowing. It makes absolutely no sense. It is completely backwards. And the only conclusion you can come to is that there's corruption and there's a lot of corruption. There's a lot of corruption with the government entities like in California, for example, that have been issuing these commercial driver's licenses against federal law to people who cannot prove that they are American citizens and to people who either don't take the English test or who failed the English test and they hand it out anyway. Because then there's the driving schools that are benefiting from this, hundreds of them. I believe that Sean Duffy has said they've stripped the credentialing for hundreds of these schools so far that just pop up. And then there's the companies that are using illegal labor because they want to pay these truckers less money.

[Emily]

Right.

[Katie Pavlich]

We had Marcus Coleman on our show a couple of times. He's a truck driver and his daughter Delilah Coleman was hit by one of these illegal aliens driving with an illegal CDL in California. She's five years old. She was severely brain damaged. She will have to live with her father for the rest of her life. She's lucky that she survived. And he's been in Washington advocating, he went to the State of the Union address advocating for changes to this program because he understands what's wrong with it. And he also knows all about all the corruption at every single level with the local governments, with all the driving schools, the kind of people that they're hiring. And he said that they're paying people under the table in order to save money while putting everybody at risk on the road. This, and this is not the only story. I mean, you mentioned the story in Florida. There was another one about a year ago where there was a driver from India who did a U turn and ended up killing Americans. I mean, this is happening all over the. This is happening all the time. A family. There was that story of the Amish family that was killed, I think, a month ago as a result of someone who is, again, on an illegal commercial driver's license. So, again, this is preventable, and yet politicians are not willing to put a stop to it on the left, it seems, for the sake of satisfying all these entities that they won't admit are in the interest of making money illegally and illegal aliens not in the interest of keeping Americans safe.

[Emily]

It's so incoherent, as you point out, though, because the women are being harmed, obviously. Women are being harmed. Naturalized citizens are being harmed, as we just mentioned, people who went through the process the correct way. So immigrants basically are being harmed as well. And on top of this last thing I want to ask you about, Katie, the estimate is about 18% of truckers are foreign born. I'm sure you remember this New York Times story from a few months back where they talked about a man who was the victim of Social Security fraud, and they equated his suffering with the suffering of the man who is not supposed to be in this country, who was committing the fraud, the migrant who was committing the fraud. And you look at all of these stories and you think there's a way to frame this, even if you're, you know, Bernie Sanders circa 2002, and you're still calling open borders a Koch brothers proposal.

[Katie Pavlich]

Exactly.

[Emily]

I know you can see all of these issues through that lens. If you have 18% of truckers on American roads being immigrants, that is obviously distorting what you pay American truck drivers who can speak the language, read the language proficiently. It is creating this supply that you get addicted to of cheap foreign labor that is abused and distorting the entire market. And again, all of these stories that we've just read off of the course of the last, like, 20 minutes, this could be headline news every. Every single day, and rightfully so. But it's not.

[Katie Pavlich]

Well, there's, of course, of course, the bigger issue of the political power that comes with this and the risk that the left has been willing to gamble with, with embracing this kind of just, you know, basically saying there's no difference between a citizen or. And a person who comes here illegally. Equating the two is the same. They do that on purpose so that there's no difference. So that, you know, really we're all just the same. And therefore, the decision doesn't really mean anything. And then, of course, blurring the line between illegal aliens and legal aliens. People who come here legally to this country who want to be American citizens. There's a political part of that which is a bigger discussion. But in terms of what's happening with these stories, everything that we've talked about today I have heard for years covering this topic. Well, what about the humane side of this issue? We want to be humane to the people breaking the law. We want to be humane to illegal immigration. Nothing is more humane than, A, open borders and then B, throwing out all the logical rules, like, I don't know, being able to read English when you're driving on the road for the sake of people not getting murdered or killed, when they're just going about their business as an American citizen in this country is a complete, I would say failure, but I, I think that's too nice of a term because it's. I think it's being done on purpose because it's so preventable and illogical. It is a deliberate act that these politicians are putting Americans in danger for. And there are benefits to them, whether it's money, whether it's corruption, whether it's political power, whether it's their ideology of equating everyone. And we don't. We live in a global society and there's no such thing as real citizenship and especially American citizenship. We could never be exceptional in that way.

[Emily]

Exactly.

[Katie Pavlich]

It is horrific. And it's. That's why this is an issue that people actually care about and vote on a lot. Just because you're not seeing tens of thousands of people pouring over the border every day doesn't mean this issue isn't affecting people and people. It's happening more than we know because it doesn't get reported a whole lot. And I guarantee you people know someone who's been affected by this issue. And it's a touch point. Whether it's in your kid's school, whether it's in your healthcare system, whether it's in fraud, identity fraud, whether you've been in an accident with someone who's here illegally driving on the road, whether your tax dollars are getting stripped from you to go pay for child care, like in New York, for example, for illegally.

[Emily]

That doesn't mean that doesn't matter.

[Katie Pavlich]

All of this for every single person who pays taxes in America. So that's why it's a big issue. And it's just completely inhumane to Americans to allow this to go on.

[Emily]

You and I both know, Katie, that people who are here illegally or even people who are going through the legal process cannot access public benefits.

[Katie Pavlich]

That's never happened before, ever. Especially in California.

[Emily]

Yeah, especially in California. Also just around the country. That's what those Medicaid reimbursements are like. Have you ever been in an emergency room in a sanctuary city? I mean, yeah, it's a wild place.

[Katie Pavlich]

It's a wild place. Yeah. Look at the state budgets, look at every state budget and look at how they categorize healthcare costs and the way that they increase taxes for the sake of healthcare after they just made themselves a sanctuary jurisdiction. And you know exactly where that money's going to.

[Emily]

Good point. Katie Pavlich covers all of this in great detail, interviewing people who have knowledge of it who are on the ground. Every time I asked you a question, you were like, well, we talked to this person and this person and this person who has deep personal knowledge of it. That's why people should go watch. Katie Pavlich tonight on News Nation, weekdays, 10:10pm Eastern. Katie, it was so great to have you. Thanks for coming on.

[Katie Pavlich]

Great to be here. Thanks, Emily. Talk to you soon.

[Emily]

Well, for years, legacy media, government and big data companies coaxed us into surrendering our digital freedom. We talk about this on the show all the time, giving lip service the whole way to privacy while leaving their digital back doors wide open for their own purposes. Well, Unplugged set out to do something about it. The upphone by Unplugged is the smartphone designed to restore your rights when it comes to blocking third party trackers from shadowy data brokers. The UPPhone by Unplugged outshines every device on the market. And you can see it actually on the phone that I have here. This is my upphone. You can see it right now. You just open up the it's actually really cool. There's a privacy center right on the home screen. You open it up and it shows you how many trackers have been blocked so far that day. You have total privacy controls on the phone and so you can just switch things on and off. And one of the absolute coolest things about the upphone is that there's even a battery disconnect switch. It's physically on the phone, so off really means off. And all of this is independently verified and tested. So you can actually be confident in knowing your upphone is the most private smartphone that you could possibly buy. So check out UPPhone from [e-mail] Emily. That's unplugged.com Emily.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Substance Use Disorder and addiction is so isolating.

[Emily]

And so as a black woman in

[Glenn Greenwald]

recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens, you will be okay.

[Emily]

When we learn the power of hope recovery is possible, find out [e-mail] brought to you by the National Council for

[Katie Pavlich]

Mental well Being, Shatterproof and the AD Council.

[Emily]

Hi, everyone. Well, before we close out the show for the night, I have a couple of more topics to go through. We're going to start with Nikki Glaser and end on Tucker Carlson. That's the most after party show conclusion that I could possibly think of. Now I will say I have always liked Nikki Glazer. I do find Nikki Glazer funny. I find her to be like, like, fairly clever. She's a great roaster. You know, there's always open questions about who's actually writing jokes for the roasts. But I think Nikki Glaser performs pretty well off script, which is a good indication that she's talented on her own. She went on Call Her Daddy recently. And before we get to that, let's put up this Page Six headline because this is from April 8th. Nikki Glaser, quote, kind of likes it when boyfriend Chris Convey hooked up with other women, quote. It's just what I'm into. Let's watch this video of Nikki Glaser on Call her daddy. Talking about this.

[Nikki Glaser]

In a relationship, I don't really care if my boyfriend were to hook up.

[Emily]

Okay.

[Katie Pavlich]

I read about that. Yeah, we need to talk about that.

[Nikki Glaser]

But that is.

[Emily]

Okay. You call this the hot husband fetish, which is essentially when you want your partner to have sexual experiences with other people outside of the relationship.

[Katie Pavlich]

Yeah.

[Emily]

So when did this start for you, Nikki?

[Nikki Glaser]

Let's go back. It started with my, my boyfriend when I was 29.

[Emily]

Like, I would always ask him about,

[Nikki Glaser]

like, past hookups and girlfriends and how they got together. Like, I always, like the beginning, like, how did you guys first know you liked each other? Like, I love that, like, our legs were touching on our table and neither of us moved our leg or something. Like, stuff like that. I'd be like, so, like, I don't know, it would make me, like, horny to, like, think about him doing that with other girls.

[Katie Pavlich]

And.

[Nikki Glaser]

And then it reached a point where he was out of stories. Like, he had gone through all of them. And I was like. And it's almost like he was telling the same ones. And I was like, I know this one. So it wasn't as exciting anymore. I was like, I think I need you to, like, get some more stories.

[Emily]

You need new material, crafts.

[Nikki Glaser]

I was, maybe it's my competitive nature of, like, I want a guy who other girls want. Like, I. I like something that is like, you know, you want a handbag that other girls are like, oh, my God, I'm dying to get that.

[Emily]

That's relatable. That is relatable.

[Nikki Glaser]

I feel like I want to be very clear that I know that this is not how many women feel. And I'm not encouraging any other woman to do this or I think this is, like, the right way to run your relationship. I think, honestly, it probably is detrimental. I remember Dr. Drew telling me, like, he, after he heard me say that I don't mind, he was like, I need you to look me in the eyes and repeat, I am enough. I am enough. And I'm like, no, it's not about that. I'm like, maybe it is. Maybe I'm enough. And I feel like he has to have more. But it's, it's. It's. There's a. Probably a sadness to it, but I just, it's just what I'm into, and I can't help it.

[Emily]

There we go. So Nikki Glaser kind of did my job as the conservative of podcaster in rebutting her own point, which is that I don't doubt what she's saying is accurate, but it sounds like it's exceptional. And of course, everything has their exceptions. The exceptions prove the rules. And in this case, Nikki Glaser sounding wacky to the vast majority of women, is proving the rule that it is totally unusual. She's also probably right. And Dr. Drew, who we're trying to get on the show, by the way, is probably right as well. That, that it's rooted in. In some type of sadness. But it's not just Nikki Glaser talking about this. Let's put F16 up on the screen. This was a recent article, literally the day before the Glazer Page Six article came out, right before this Call Her Daddy episode. The headline is the Secret to a Great Marriage Crushes on Other People. Now, Glaser wasn't talking about a marriage, of course, but she was talking about the Cut magazine article is talking about how women find that having a crush on, like, a guy in the workplace who is not their husband will make them. Let's just say we'll. We'll spice up their relationships for a lot of the reasons that Nikki Glaser just outlined about handbags. So the cut is prescribing this as quote, the secret to a great marriage. Nikki Glaser is at least saying this is probably very sad and stemming from insecurity and likely not a prescription for a happy relationship. But the cut's just like no, no, no, go ahead. Feel comfortable crushing on other people in the workplace. It's fairly limited and narrow in its prescription. Still inappropriate by the way, because it's going to get turned around on women. Just imagine, just imagine someone sends this to their husband and and he's like, you know, I agree, thank you for the permission slip for me to start flirting with every other person at the water cooler. Or I guess the Keurig is probably the better stand in for that these days. But the, the point is there is a point. The point is the exception proves the rule about oxytocin in humans, especially in human women. This is biological. I'm going to read here from actually this was a study out of China from 2020 but there's a lot of research on oxy oxytocin. This is super interesting. I'm reading from the abstract here. Super interesting research. And they found quote here. In a pre registered double blind study involving 160 subjects, we report that while both sexes valued faithful individuals more for short term and long term relationships, both single men and those in a relationship were more interested in having short term relationships with previously unfaithful individuals than women. Oxytocin administration resulted in men rating the faces of unfaithful women as more attractive and likable. But in women rating those of unfaithful men as less attractive and also finding them less memorable. Brutal oxytocin also increased single men's interest in having short term relationships with previously unfaithful women, whereas it increased single women's interest in having long term relationships with face faithful men. Thus oxytocin released during courtship May 1 Act to amplify sex dependent priorities and attraction and make choice before subsequently promoting romantic bonds. So it's not just oxytocin. Oxytocin, Oxytocin we should add. There was a study out of a school in Florida not long ago also that postulated it's all kinds of biological factors that go into the human proclivity, apparent proclivity for monogamy. But certainly oxytocin has been theorized as an important, important part of that. And the reason I mentioned this is just that the there's something about postmodernism that has made us comfortable prescribing things like open relationships, polyamory. We talked about the Lindy west saga a million times. A lot of this is pitched by postmodern feminists who are doing the work of men for them, like cloaking it in feminist language. Like, it's incredible. And a lot of this is fading. But that's a, that's a trend we've seen for long, over a decade now, really going back to the sexual revolution. It's often the feminist camp that is telling women they will be liberated if they do X, Y and Z. And this is not what Nikki Glaser said, to be fair. But it wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm sure with a 10 minutes and Google you could find a million examples of, you know, powerful women in high profile positions saying that this is actually acceptable and perhaps even normal or good. And every man would probably agree. Most men would probably agree with that if they're being ultimately honest. Unmarried men, I should say. People who haven't been in that kind of relationship or the, the natural male, the male in the wild would probably agree with this. Good way. That might be the better way to put it. So it's another example of feminists prescribing something that is great for men and makes women not feel so good about themselves, not feel so secure, and that's for biological reasons. You also then run the risk of making women feel, feel weird for not enjoying things like polyamory or again, encouraging people to have open relationships and the like. And of course it's perfectly natural, but it makes women feel like reactionary and, and odd and weird, like there's something wrong with them. Again, this is women who actually read the cut, but it runs that risk as well. Not just, you know, doing the work of the men for them and undermining women, but also then additionally making women feel extra uncomfortable with their own natural inclinations. All right, that's enough about Nikki Glaser for now. Let's finish tonight on Tucker Carlson, who delivered a very interesting monologue. Maybe you love Tucker Carlson, maybe you hate Tucker Carlson. His monologue on Monday was really, I thought, a landmark. And I wrote about it for Unheard this afternoon, wanted to chat about it on the show today and just go through a little bit of Tucker's argument and then my argument to sound a little meta about Tucker's argument. So when Donald Trump threatened, now infamously, of course, to wipe out a, quote, entire civilization, people debated whether that was serious or it was a negotiating tactic. I think it was most likely a negotiating tactic. If I put myself Back in that mindset, it was fair to say this was likely a negotiating tactic before that 8pm deadline on Tuesday. But it doesn't matter if it's maybe a negotiating tactic in the moment. Donald Trump wants that to be unclear. We went through this over and over again with the tariffs. That is his point. So the taco label isn't always appropriate because it's not so much that he's chickening out, he's intentionally pushing the limit to see what he can get away with and to confuse and muddy the water. It's very much the kiss. And during Mad Men theory, where you can't project one way or the other that you're serious or unserious, otherwise it destroys the entire point of negotiating through the public and through the press. You want your enemy, in this case, your opposition, in this case to believe that you're actually that crazy. Maybe you will just wipe an entire civilization off the map and never to be rebuilt, is what Donald Trump said. So it's true that people are all often being hysterical over taking Trump literally, when in all likelihood you should take him him figuratively. But in high stake cases, we don't have the luxury of saying, well, he's most likely being figurative, therefore it doesn't matter. We do have the luxury of saying, well, it seems like he's probably being figurative, therefore it, it doesn't matter as much as maybe it would if he were didn't have a history of doing this. But that doesn't also give us the luxury of just saying, oh, the President of the United States made this really serious dramatic threat that it's probably meaningless. So we're just going to act as though it's probably meaningless and sound like that CNBC anchor in the clip we played earlier with Glenn ask about the upside and the downside for the market on cable television. So Tucker made an argument on his show about the Easter message that Trump delivered. The, quote, open the fucking straight Easter message. What did he say? Also like praise to. Praise to Allah. This was on Easter morning. Tucker criticized him for using the F word on Easter morning. He said that Trump was, quote, threatening or was threatening to, quote, destroy civilian infrastructure in another country, which is to say, commit a war crime, a moral crime, against the people of the country whose welfare was one of the reasons we supposedly went into this war in the first place. Marjorie Taylor Greene said something similar. Carrie Prejean Bowler said, quote, every single Christian should resign immediately from this administration. Or said she was calling on every single Christian to resign immediately from this administration. And I Just again, want to emphasize is what I'm not doing right now is saying you have to think one way or the other. That's a big conversation. What I want to say is that Tucker is dealing another blow to the conservative consensus that developed during the Cold War. And in I think, a really significant way, he's one of the most listened to people on the right. Do. Does every normal conservative or normie Republican voter listen? Tucker Carlson person? No. Is he somebody that unifies the conservative movement right now? No. He doesn't control the mind of, you know, your average conservative. But he has a big enough audience on the right that when you come out and make an argument as emphatically as he's made this one, it's going to trickle into the discourse and into the ideological blood, bloodstream, so to speak. And also it's being echoed by other people who are disillusioned or in the camp of folks that are disillusioned with Donald Trump. So it's worth just pausing and trying to understand actually what is being said. Not a caricature of what is being said or a perverted version of what is being said, but the actual argument. And then people can disagree from there. But I think this is really significant because this is a, an explicitly Christian denouncement of the foundation that's that American conservative. The American conservative movement, arguably the Western conservative movement, has been built, built on, since the end of World War II. And it asks Christians to reevaluate some of their most basic, most reflexive assumptions about politics in a nuclear world. And I'm scrolling through the article as we talk here just so to, to, to kind of follow along. But during the Cold War, in the aftermath of the Cold, in the aftermath of World War II, the Cold War begins in a state of rational paranoia that's an oxymoron, right? But it's actually probably the best description for the first, you know, first decade, first two decades. We're still in the first century of nuclear weapons existing, shrinking the globe to the point where everyone shares borders with countries that have nuclear weapons. In essence, you could make the same argument about ballistic missiles as well, but particularly with nuclear weapons which have, which come bearing the threat of total annihilation. So World War II ends. Nuclear weapons have been used. The world comes together, Western countries come together, the globe comes together more broadly and decides on things like the UN Declaration of Human Rights, decide on different. The, the laws of war had been, obviously there was, there was legal build up to what we have right now before World War II. But certainly we came to more agreements after the horrors of both World War I and World War II. Tom Holland argues that like the UN Declaration of Rights is interestingly explicitly Christian. It's something that couldn't exist outside of the Christian tradition. This is a controversial theory. I just have to recommend everybody read Dominion in in order to see that argument. It's. It's a long book, but it's really well worth the read. You can listen to it on audiobook. You can also just put Tom's name and the word debate into YouTube and watch his debates with people who disagree with him on that topic. I find it, it very persuasive. I find his theory to be very persuasive. But the way to think about this is if the moral frameworks that the west built after World War II were rooted in Christianity, Christian universalist values about protecting the weak. This is how Holland would describe it. This is how Tucker has described it. Protecting the weak and preventing that. N Hitlerian raw power politics. The Ubermensch who acts on power, the will to power, because nothing else matters. There are no other. There is no other moral infrastructure. Nietzsche declares God is dead and says that what comes in next is it's just power. That Christianity was a slave religion. A popular criticism that's been leveled against Christianity for a very long time. And Tucker Carlson was saying, no, know, we don't believe that we stopped. We all agreed not to think this way after World War II. We all agreed this is not what we wanted to do after World War II because it leads down some really scary roads when nuclear weapons exist. But of course, because of this rational paranoia in the new nuclear age where you had people hiding under their desks and in classrooms, schoolchildren hiding under the desk in classrooms. Again, rational paranoia. You have no idea what the Soviet Union is going to do. Soviet Union has no idea what we're going to do. The, the Japanese certainly were not prepared for what ended the. The two nuclear weapons that ended that conflict in the Pacific. So the proxy wars spring up and were were justified on these grounds. Cuba is a very good example of this rational paranoia. It's a rational paranoia about what might happen If a country 90 miles off the coast of Florida has missiles that are on the ground, that close, has surveillance bases in Cuba. If the Soviets had a real foothold in Cuba, which arguably they did, that's a disaster potentially for American civilians because you have no idea what the Soviet Union is going to do. The Soviet Union would say the same thing about this. Was the Cuban Missile crisis lead up to the Cuban Missile crisis and Turkey and the like. This is a rational paranoia. And so all of these proxy wars were justified on those grounds that actually we are protecting our weak and our voice vulnerable. And so we need to use our strength, protect the weak and the vulnerable from the Soviets. And you saw often that, for example, support for the Contras would be cloaked in the language of sometimes human rights or opposition to Cuba. The blockade, constantly the blockade, which, which obviously you can argue in the long run, many people will argue is, is good for Cuban civilians because it will liberate them from communism. That's the popular argument on the right. But what is that also talking about liberating the people of Cuba? This is the language once again of human rights. And so both of those things are happening at the same time. Some of it is entirely sincere, some of it is often a pretext, as I would argue was the case in Iran in the 53 coup. You could say it's a little bit about oil, a little bit about the Soviet Union. It was definitely a combination of both. But this is genuinely very interesting because Tucker isn't making his argument from the liberation theology perspective. The people who rallied around Oscar Romero or were fighting with the Sandinistas or supporting the Sandinistas, and it's not from the anti American left Eastern either. His critics will just call him flatly anti American for sharing this argument. I don't think it's remotely fair if you listen to everything that Tucker says, to peg him as somebody who is just categorically anti American. What he's doing is, is in a way arguing that Christianity should be severed or that Christians should divorce from the Cold War consensus. That said, these, these Cold War proxy conflicts very much in places like Iran, where we say it is a, you know, destroying bridges or wiping out civilizations or whatever. Lindsey Graham's bluster is that vacillates between saying we're going to bomb them back to the Stone Age or we're going to help the Iranian people liberate themselves. Just like, like American conservatives have long talked about Castro, Tucker is questioning that. That has been the basis. That's the center. That's like the Overton window of centrist Republicans, centrist Democrats also, I would just argue the mainstream conservative movement for a, a very long time and whether, you know, people who find themselves in that camp would go back and re evaluate a lot of these decisions during the Cold War. I mean, I would frankly, knowing what we know now, which of course we didn't know at the time. There's the famous example of Richard Nixon ordering the CIA to make the Chilean economy scream. Those are his words in a secret memo. It caused a huge uproar when it was disclosed in the 1970s. Nixon did that in secret. The difference between Nixon and Trump is Trump is openly saying things. Paraphrasing him, of course, but like, make the Cuban economy screaming. Make the Iranian economy scream. Just today, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth said we had the ability, we were locked and loaded, to grind their economy to an absolute halt. That is different and interesting. And Trump is forcing this conversation to the surface by being as transparent and sort of raw as he is now. I just also wanted to put this post up on the screen from Eugenie Bastier. I don't speak French. Sorry. Probably butchered that name. Who said there is a rift that will deepen in the coming years between the Christian conservative right and the Nietzsche pagan Promethean right. The latter hating the former for its supposed weakness. And then ads and parentheses. Understanding little about Christianity, preferring Captain America to St. Thomas Aquinas. I would quibble with that a little bit. The. The Captain America part versus the Aquinas part. But we don't need to get in to all of that. I just think that's generally a good point. What we're seeing is. Is Carlson drifting away from Hegseth, drifting away from Trump. And the. The daylight right now between Hexith and Trump Trump is that Hegseth is creeping closer towards Trump's position, but also still kind of clinging to this ideological framing of you grinding another country's economy to the halt, being something that is in the interest of the Iranian people and humanity and the. The world overall, which is a consistent position. Of course, if, if you're Pete Hegseth, it's just. This is the daylight between Hegseth and Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson says that's basically is what he's. Is the point that he's making. So I think this is much more interesting than people are giving it credit for. And part of what's frustrating is that because people are so polarized over individual figures and we're having these conversations on online casinos, basically meaning X social media, where, you know, you're incentivized to be extreme and to condemn or endorse very often no incentive to do anything in between, we're not even really able to have this conversation and to figure out what's happening before we move on to the next rage cycle. So I thought it might be helpful to just kind of pause and give some of my thoughts on what I see unfolding from that monologue, which was very, very compelling. People on the left were commending and I saw like podbro, Jon Favreau saying it was worth watching and then people libs getting mad at him for doing that. But I think it was a landmark moment. Whether you think Tucker's irrelevant or you disagree with him, you hate him, you think he's anti American, he was articulating an argument that is gaining steam and momentum regardless. And I think some of that is because the democratization of information, it's harder to keep, you know, what Nixon said secret for long wrong in this day and age. Trump is very much a character of this day and age. So he understands that you would have a hard time keeping it secret if you, if you tried and that there's, you know, the, the medium is kind of amenable to the type of politics that he does. So anyway, I'll start rambling or stop rambling for now. Imagine if I was just getting started. That would be rough. But as a reminder, you can email me emilymacaremedia.com your question for happy hour. That's our podcast only edition of the show. It is available in all podcast feeds, totally free. You can send me your questions emilyevilmadecaremedia.com Looking forward to reading all of those tomorrow. I record in the afternoon, so get them in before then if you want them answered on this week's show. Otherwise we will be back here with more after party next week, 9pm Eastern, Monday and Wednesday. See then everyone.

[Kiana (Shopify Advertiser)]

I'm Kiana and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is, it's doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like I can't stop. I'm addicted.

[Emily]

Start your free [e-mail] so good, so good, so good.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons

[Emily]

to rack because I always find something amazing.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Just so many good brands because there's always something new.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

Join the normal Norty club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.