Swisher's CNN Threat, and How a Lie About Tucker Went Viral, with Michael Malice, PLUS Kimmel’s Elitist Contempt

Summary

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After Party with Emily Jashinsky

Episode: Swisher's CNN Threat, and How a Lie About Tucker Went Viral, with Michael Malice, PLUS Kimmel’s Elitist Contempt
Date: March 26, 2026
Host: Emily Jashinsky, MK Media
Guests: Michael Malice (author, podcaster), Emma Waters (Heritage Foundation; author)

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Episode Overview

This episode of After Party offers a sharp, satirical deconstruction of the week’s major political and cultural flashpoints. Emily Jashinsky is joined by Michael Malice to diagnose the political blame game after the Sheridan Gorman murder, the trend of elderly lawmakers retaining power, Gavin Newsom’s social media antics, billionaire flight from California, and the viral misattribution of a Tucker Carlson quote. Emma Waters joins to discuss her new book, Lead Like JL, and the generational rethinking of womanhood, career, and family. The episode closes with a critical takedown of Jimmy Kimmel’s mockery of Markwayne Mullen’s working class credentials, exposing ongoing elitism in pop culture commentary.

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Main Discussion Topics

1. Sheridan Gorman Case & Political Blame (04:54–11:03)

• Incident: Loyola University student Sheridan Gorman was killed in Chicago by an illegal immigrant recently released after a prior shoplifting charge.
• Emily’s critique: Emily reacts strongly to Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker's “passive voice” in addressing the tragedy—“there have been real failures”—and spotlights the tendency to blame “the system” and, ultimately, Trump.
  • Emily: "Can I just ask you, Michael, about him using the passive voice? There, quote, there have been real failures. Somebody, somewhere did something and the system has failed us. What do you mean?" (06:11)
• Michael Malice’s analysis: Malice dissects the lack of policy accountability and suggests politicians avoid specifics to dodge blame, invoking “us/them” tribalism over objective truth.
  • Michael Malice: "The average person doesn't run a true-false filter, but they run an us-them filter. And if something is going bad, it's obviously them... Conservatives have a hard time wrapping their heads around it because they think people are being dishonest. I don't think that's what it is. I think people literally hear what they want to hear." (07:57)
• They explore the inertia of political narrative gatekeepers and both parties' refusal to specify immigration solutions.

2. Congressional Leadership & The Age Divide (13:51–18:39)

• Maxine Waters Running at 87: Discussion of Waters potentially chairing the powerful House Financial Services Committee at age 89.
• Perennial problem: Emily and Malice joke about advanced-age members (Dianne Feinstein, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Kay Granger) and question staff control in aged representatives’ offices.
  • Michael Malice: "If you had a 40-year-old Maxine Waters, I don't see how she'd govern any differently." (17:10)
  • Emily: "The bar was already low for Maxine Waters." (16:48)
• Malice warns about unintended consequences: "The replacement for Maxine Waters would probably be a lot closer to AOC... Be very careful what you wish for." (17:58)

3. Gavin Newsom as Meme-Lord and Wealth Taxes (18:39–28:14)

• Newsom’s Bateman Posting: Governor Newsom embraced memes comparing him to American Psycho’s Patrick Bateman, attempting social media savvy.
  • Michael Malice: "Democrats are hungry for someone who can step up to Trump and beat him at his own game and look at the Colbert audience and hack him to death." (19:26)
• California’s Billionaire Flight: Newsom criticizes a proposed one-time 5% billionaire wealth tax, warning it will accelerate the exodus of the ultra-rich.
  • Emily provides statistics and highlights Stanford research indicating the tax would net less than lost future income tax.
  • Michael: "I don't call it a tax. It's a fine. You're fining people for making too much money. It's crazy." (23:17)
• Class Warfare: They agree the tax is more about class resentment than practical revenue.
  • Malice: "There's no amount of money that billionaires can pay where that poor person is happy being poor. That's the rub of it. If you're told you're poor because somebody else is rich, there's no amount of taxation that's going to satisfy you." (25:46)
  • Emily: "One of the best questions you can ask people proposing these types of taxes is what is enough?"(27:28)

4. Viral Misinformation & The Tucker Carlson Hoax (31:22–37:24)

• Weaponizing Context Collapse on X: Emily spots a surge in viral, out-of-context clips or invented quotes, focusing on recent fabrications involving Tucker Carlson (“Sharia law has made Islamic societies more advanced than the West”).
  • Emily: "If you attribute a quote to someone and post a video, they won't watch the video. They'll just retweet with the quote over and over again." (32:10)
• Michael compares this to past media misquoting, citing examples involving Gavin Newsom (dyslexia remarks) and Hillary Clinton (“what difference does it make?”) and emphasizes the broader dangers of algorithmic outrage: "I think social media algorithms are designed to keep people constantly enraged and agitated... it's only going to get worse because it works for them and it's very deleterious socially." (36:19)

5. Kara Swisher’s Threat to Quit CNN (37:24–41:43)

• Swisher’s Posturing: Kara Swisher claims she’ll leave CNN if Paramount acquires Warner Bros, alleging Paramount “have no interest in journalism.”
  • Swisher: "I refuse to work for an organization that doesn't respect journalists." (38:24)
• Emily and Malice mock Swisher’s dramatic moral high ground, noting the irony given CNN’s reputation for “editorial choices.”
  • Michael: "The level of self-congratulatory rhetoric you just heard in that little clip is just something downright Trumpian." (39:30)
  • Emily: "You work at CNN. Come on. What are we doing here?" (38:47)

6. Emma Waters: Gen Z, Faith, and “Lead Like JL” (42:20–58:53)

• Who is Emma Waters? Heritage Foundation policy analyst, now author of Lead Like JL, positing a “third path” for young women between “girl boss” careerism and “trad wife” roles.
  • Emma: "I think there's a silent majority of women in America today who really are trying to carve that third path that allows them to honor the family but also honor these gifts that they have as well." (44:23)
• Changing Values: Gen Z women are (slowly) moving away from career-above-all; motherhood is regaining cultural status (per quotes from Olivia Rodrigo, Jesse Buckley).
• Debunking “You Can Have It All”: Emma critiques the neoliberal (and feminist) myth that ambition and perfect family life are simultaneously attainable at all times.
  • Emma: "If you are working a really high-powered, intense job that does demand a lot of you and you're having kids at the same time, the reality is that you don't have as much time to spend with your children as maybe they need from you at these early ages... it's your children who are paying the price." (51:11)
• Lead Like JL: The biblical figure Jael is described as both traditionally feminine (knowing her domestic tools) and radically able to defend her home; Waters draws out lessons for contemporary women seeking to balance agency and faith.
  • Emma: "It's only because she had been faithful to those ordinary, mundane responsibilities of being a wife, a mother, and a homemaker that she was equipped to defeat Israel's enemy when he came knocking at her door." (56:06)

7. Jimmy Kimmel’s Elitist Contempt for “Plumber” Politicians (61:33–End)

• Kimmel on Markwayne Mullen: Kimmel mocks the new Homeland Security Secretary for having a plumbing background (“We have a plumber protecting us from terrorism. Now I work for Super Mario.”) ([62:26])
• Emily’s retort: She skewers Kimmel and his writers for sneering at working-class professionals in public service, equating it to past condescension toward AOC as a “bartender.”
  • Emily: "When you just say it's because she's a bartender, you're saying that average Americans, normal people who go about their daily lives, lack sufficient wisdom to be in Congress, which is stupid." (62:52)
  • On Markwayne Mullen: "Whether you agree with the guy or not... his career has followed the sort of perfect map of what the framers would have wanted to see happen." (64:40)
• Late-Night Lecture Culture: Emily laments the shift of late-night from comedy to sanctimonious lecture, referencing Vince Vaughn’s comments about “watching your favorite late night show... and suddenly you are getting a lecture on white privilege or whatever else from a comedian.”

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Notable Quotes

On Political Accountability & Narrative Filters

• Michael Malice (on narrative-building): "People literally hear what they want to hear." (09:41)

On Wealth Taxes and Class Resentment

• Michael Malice: "You're fining people for making too much money. It's crazy." (23:17)
• "If you're told that you're poor because somebody else is rich, there's no amount of taxation that's going to satisfy you." (25:46)

On Misinformation Virality

• Emily Jashinsky: "If you attribute a quote to someone and post a video, they won't watch the video. They'll just retweet with the quote over and over again." (32:10)

On the Gen Z Gender Divide and Opportunity

• Emma Waters: "Most women in Gen Z don't relate to girl boss feminism... but also not the sort of rigid model that most women are looking for in the trad wife movement. They want something in between that as strong, dedicated, smart women who want the freedom to prioritize family and having children, but not at the expense of or at odds with maybe the work or passions that they feel." (44:23)
• "There’s this recognition among Gen Z that having children and becoming a mother can be a high status pursuit in a woman’s life. It’s no longer something that signals that you’re unserious about your career." (47:30)

On Media Elitism

• Emily Jashinsky: "The fact that writers put that into the script, that it was looked at by the producers and that Kimmel thought it was great and delivered it with just utter contempt for even the word plumber is so telling." (65:41)

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Timestamps: Segment Guide

| Segment | Approx. Start | |----------------------------------------|---------------| | Sheridan Gorman murder & blame casting | 04:54 | | Congressional gerontocracy | 13:51 | | Newsom memes, billionaire taxes | 18:39 | | Out-of-context viral media (Tucker) | 31:22 | | Kara Swisher’s “CNN threat” | 37:24 | | Emma Waters interview | 42:20 | | Jimmy Kimmel/Mullen segment | 61:33 |

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Memorable Moments

• Michael Malice’s roast of political shamelessness: “It’s a smart move...especially if they’re going to navigate a primary when you have to worry about democratic socialists...and the corporate party hacks, the Klobuchar people.” (12:51)
• Emily on meme culture: “Newsom posted on X: Now, this pick has been going all over the place. What do you think? It’s his face split down the middle with Patrick Bateman’s face...”
• Emma Waters, on Jael, subverting tired femininity tropes: “It’s not the sort of airhead trad wife that you see online sometimes. And yet at the same time, she didn’t pick up the sword... There’s this distinctly feminine way that women are called to fight and lead…” (56:06)
• Emily’s summary of Kimmel’s elitism: “You couldn’t find a better clip to illustrate it than Jimmy Kimmel coming out and saying we all should feel less safe because…there’s a plumber.”

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Tone & Style

The episode blends sharp political analysis with sardonic commentary, aiming to puncture establishment narratives from both the right and left. Jashinsky and Malice routinely push back against received wisdom, whether from legacy politicians, media elites, or online influencer culture. The addition of Emma Waters brings a thoughtful and measured voice to generational debates over faith, feminism, and meaning. The overall mood is skeptical, humorous, and trenchantly non-tribal.

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This summary distills the major arguments, memorable lines, and key segments of the episode for listeners seeking a clear, critical roadmap of what transpired.

Transcript

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[Emily]

I guess we could call this the show for people who like their news a little bit late, a little bit light. Is that the new tagline? I'm trying it out. Tonight's guests are Michael Malice and Emma Waters. So stick around for that. Please support our journalism by subscribing on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Also remember to like comment leave reviews. It boosts us in the algorithm so that other people see our content as well. All right. On the show tonight, new comments from Jimmy Kimmel who is slamming Mark Wayne Mullen for being a normal human being. We're going to get to that. Crazy reactions to the tragic killing of Sheridan Gorman. Gavin Newsom is Zoomer posting and losing his tax base. We're going to talk about Democrats, 87 year old hope for the future and new hoax targeting Tucker Carlson. Some details on that to come. Also, Kara Swisher is threatening everyone with a good time. I'm going to hop in the chat for a bit because Michael Malice refused to stay up for us tonight live. So it was pre tape and I will be answering your questions on YouTube during the live show if you're watching this live. So we will get to that in just a moment. Like I said, Emma Waters will be with us as well. She has a new book out called Live Like JL and it pushes back on kind of the girl boss stuff but also kind of the trad wife stuff. Super interesting. We'll talk to Emma all about it in a bit. Malice will be up first. But first see how I did that. Over the years I have been clear about this. I'm not just pro birth, I pro life. And being pro life means standing with mothers not only before their baby is born but long after. And that is exactly why I partner very proudly with Preborn. Preborn doesn't just save babies, they make motherhood abundantly possible. They provide free ultrasounds and share the truth of the gospel with women in crisis. And then they stay with real practical help including financial support for up to two years after the baby is born. This is what true Christ centered compassion looks like. Not just for the baby but for the mother too. And here's where you can make a difference. Just $28 provides a free life saving ultrasound. One chance for a mother to see her baby. And when she does, this is a real number. She is twice as likely to choose life. Preborn is trying to save 70,000 babies this year. So don't just say you're pro life, live it. Help save babies and support mothers today. Go to preborn.com emily or call 855-601-2229. That's preborn.com emily get in the game

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[Emily]

See full [e-mail] and now without further ado, Michael Malice. Well, it's a great night here on afterparty because the one and only Michael Malice is back. He's of course host of you're welcome and Author of the White Pill, A Tale of Good and Evil. Michael Malice, Great to have you back.

[Michael Malice]

Thanks so much, Emily. Great to be here.

[Emily]

Well, the subheading of your book, the White Pill is actually called the Tale of Good and Evil. So I wanted to start on the awful case of Sheridan Gorman. This is truly, since Lake and Riley, one of the most stomach churning cases that I can remember post Biden surge. If people are familiar with this case yet, if they haven't followed the details, we can put F11 up on the screen here. An illegal immigrant has been charged with killing a Loyola University student in Chicago. That illegal immigrant was released under Biden. According to the Department of homeland security. It's 25 year old Venezuelan national named Jose Medina who was also arrested, arrested previously for shoplifting back in 2023, then released before this murder happened on March 19th. Sheridan Gorman was a student and at Loyola was out with friends on the morning of March 19th. And malice, just before we went to air, I saw this quote from JB Pritzker that is sending me through the roof. He said, quote, this has been a terrible tragedy. And I know that the Gorman family has suffered mightily. There have been real failures. Those failures, of course, extend beyond the borders of Illinois. They're national failures. A failure to have comprehensive immigration reform, a failure of the President to follow his own edict to go after the worst of the worst. And now he's blaming Trump. But it is the job of the federal government to go after immigration enforcement. And it is the job of our local and state law enforcement to prosecute or catch violent criminals and prosecute them. And we should continue to do that, both on the state level and the national level. Can I just ask you, Michael, about him using the passive voice? There, quote, there have been real failures. Somebody somewhere did something and the system has failed us. What do you mean?

[Michael Malice]

Let's even work within his framework. Within his framework, a shoplifter isn't the worst of the worst. So bringing that up makes. It's not like this guy's a mass murderer. He's let out. So what point does that have to do with anything? Second of all, you know, I feel stupid. I don't know. I like this when I disagree with that position. I like to see things from the other point of view to understand where they're coming from. I don't understand the literal process, how if I'm an illegal immigrant and I'm arrested, how I'm not deported, like literally. I don't, I don't understand what the reasoning is or how that works, it's unthinkable.

[Emily]

Like, explain this to any other country. Like, yeah, we got the guy. We knew he wasn't here legally, he was committing crime, shoplifting, but we just let him go. It's just the stupidest. Stupidest.

[Michael Malice]

No, but even if he wasn't committing crime, like, literally, what is the. Yeah, I don't know.

[Emily]

It doesn't make, it doesn't make any sense. I guess it's. I mean, maybe it has something to do in Medina's case with the sanctuary city that they just wanted only federal law enforcement. I guess that's what I'm reading between the lines of Governor Pritzker statement is that, well, the feds didn't get them, so it's the Fed's fault. I mean, blaming Donald Trump for this is, for Pritzker, even a bad flex. Like, that's ridiculous.

[Michael Malice]

Well, why is it ridiculous? Because, you know, I think something I've pointed out, and I'm confident you agree in, is the average person doesn't run a true false filter, but they run an us them filter. And if something is going bad, it's obviously them. In this case, them for Pritzker is Trump. And you can understand to his audience, while Trump's been talking about immigration and this immigrant's been here killing people, you know, the buck stops here. You could, you could hear them smiling and nodding like it makes perfect sense to them. So, yeah, it's shameless. But what I remember I was on some other show and Pritzker was saying, oh, you know, we had a problem with the border before, but now blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, did you guys catch that? Because at the time we were being told there's no problem, we had a problem, everything's fine, and now, oh, there was a problem. When was this problem? Who was it under? What was the extent of the problem and how, in your opinion, Governor Pritzker, was it resolved? So I think people underestimate, especially in a social media context where everyone can just call you out immediately, how shameless old school politicians can be of both parties. But I also think it's highly effective. I mean, Biden said repeatedly that he ran for president because Trump was praising white nationalists at Charlottesville. And he said, very fine people. And he did say those three words, and we all heard him say those three words. And it's brazenly a lie. But there are a significant amount of people in America right now on the left that if you play them, the whole clip of what Trump would say had Said, excuse me, they would still tell you that they heard him praising white nationalists. They literally hear things because they're running that filter that Trump is bad and whatever that makes him sound bad. That is what they will literally perceive. And I think conservatives have a hard time wrapping their heads around it because they think people are being dishonest. I don't think that's what it is. I think people literally hear what they want to hear.

[Emily]

No, that's, we're going to get to that in a moment. In another case, actually, I think that's a really good point. The other thing I wanted to say on this, or wanted to ask you on this, PRITZKER Newsom they're all like trying to bring campaigns into some type of formation, early campaign processes ahead of 2028. And for Pritzker, what is, I mean, this is all they can say is we failed to do comprehensive immigration reform, but it stopped short of saying actually what they would do. I mean, they have the government shut down right now because of DHS funding. And to your point, Michael, Republicans are delusional to think people are going to blame Democrats for the long lines at airports. They just aren't. They never, they never are. The, the gatekeepers of the narrative are still powerful. They're less powerful than they ever have been, but they're still powerful. People are blaming the party in control. And I think it's, it's still blows my mind even with all of that. PRITZKER Newsom they can't say what they actually would do. What is their immigration plan? Because this is how we ended up with the Biden immigration plan, is nobody wanted to say that we should have any level of enforcement at the border other than processing people and letting them in and giving them a court date five years into the future. So what would they do differently from Joe Biden? I would love.

[Michael Malice]

What incentive is there for them to have a concrete policy where they can simply run on things aren't working. And I think a huge percentage of Republicans and especially Independents would agree that the system isn't currently working. I read. Okay, let me, let me flip it around. In 2016 15, when Trump was running for president, he had a ghost written book called Crippled America how to Fix Our Broken System. Right. It was a bestseller and I read it because I got a signed copy. And my rule is if I own a book, I'm going to read it. Here's how every chapter works. Emily Taxes. The people in Washington have no idea what they're doing. Taxes are out of control, but revenues are low. It is a disgrace. Other countries have lower taxes and better outcomes. We need someone who's going to fix it. Chapter two, the environment. The environment's a disaster. Everyone's just getting rich and nothing's getting cleaner. We need someone to fix it. Literally every chapter is like this. The only policy contention he has in there is that he won't touch Social Security. But if you read the book, there's absolutely no cognitive, concrete policy proposals. Not that he didn't have them otherwise, but in this book, I'm saying specifically. So I'm remembering, and this is going to be kind of a deep cut, but it's a really amazing one. There's a woman in Great Britain called Diane Abbott. She's the longest serving female in the house and she's literally mentally handicapped. And she was their shadow home secretary, meaning for labor, that when labor, if labor had taken over, she would be their home secretary who's in charge of immigration. Right. And she's on with Piers Morgan. There's this video, and she got fired because this video. And Piers goes, all right, Diane, if Labor takes over the next election, your home secretary, you're in charge of immigration. Are people getting deported? Are they getting amnesty? Or is there some third option I'm not thinking of? And she goes, peers, the immigration policy under the Tories is not fit for purpose. It's terrible. Under labor, be fairer, cheaper and much more equitable. And he's like, right, got it. So there's a family here, they're illegal. You catch them. Are they staying in Great Britain being deported or something else? I'm thinking of, she's like, peers, the system currently is at work. I just kept repeating it. And he's like, diana, I'm not trying to trick you. Like, what are you talking? She just wouldn't answer. But that works. Because if people are like, you know what? Pritzker thinks a lot more like me than that evil Trump who's shooting innocent Americans in the street. I don't know if he will figure out, but I trust his preferences more than I trust this evil Trump. So it's a smart move, I think, on their part, as far as they can take it, especially if they're going to navigate a primary when you have to worry about the democratic socialists who are for open borders and amnesty and then the corporate party hacks, that Klobuchar people who are like, all right, we need some kind of border control.

[Emily]

That's a really good point. They can take it as far as it goes. Yeah, I have to Ask you about Maxine Waters. Speaking of what people can get away with anti Maxine as she's dubbed herself. Maybe like the proto K Hive, like future Kamala Harris. Stans dubbed her this back in, like 2017. Auntie Maxine, as she goes by now, 87 years old. 87 years old. She is running for Emily Young.

[Michael Malice]

Yes. There you go.

[Emily]

That's what you're. 87 years young compared to, I guess, Chuck Grassley. She's eligible bachelorette.

[Michael Malice]

Governor Pritzker is 400 pounds thin. Yes.

[Emily]

I love how you always look at the glasses. Glasses being half full, Alice, I think that's really admirable.

[Michael Malice]

Very full, I assure you.

[Emily]

Yeah. Yes, yes.

[Michael Malice]

Oh, boy.

[Emily]

You ate malice. Now the California Democrats. Yes, yes, yes. According to Politico, Maxine Waters now, quote, could soon become the oldest chair in the history of the powerful House Financial Services Committee. If you're not here in Washington, D.C. i mean, I don't know that some people realize how insanely powerful the House Financial Services Committee is. And to be the chairwoman of that at 87 years young, if she wins reelection, what, 89, 90 years young. Auntie Maxine still calling herself that. Still holding on. Here in D.C. we have Eleanor Holmes Norton, who was forced to saying she would not want run for reelection because she kept showing up incapable of conducting herself with, you know, sadly, her. What's it, cognitive health. I mean, it was just very obvious. It's like Kay Granger was in a literal nursing home in a memory care facility while she was still in Congress. And everyone says, make it stop. Make it stop. Make it stop. Here we have Maxine Waters. Michael, seemingly getting away with announcing another bid.

[Michael Malice]

Wait, Emily, hold on. You forgot the best one of those stories. Dianne Feinstein, God rest her soul, sent from California at the time. Chuck Schumer, who was, I think, minority leader at the time, went to her office. This is reported by the New York Post or Daily News. You can look it up. I'm not making this up. Trying. I'm trying to be funny. Sat her down and is like, look, you need to retire. You're. The age is a factor, blah, blah. She agreed and then forgot like he had the conversation. I'm not kidding. Look this up, please. If have your producers find this, like two or three times, you have to have the same conversation with her because her dementia was so advanced, she just kept forgetting. So I will steal me on this, though. I've seen Maxine Waters interviews recently and so have you. I wouldn't think she's 89. Or slowed down a bit. She's the same babbling freak she's always been. Do you think she's kind of slowed down in her old age?

[Emily]

No, it's, it would be impossible because that's, that's like asking if you know you can be. Well, she's, she's always been at a level where you're questioning her cognitive function. Right.

[Michael Malice]

I think she's the same phenomenon she's always been.

[Emily]

Yeah. The bar was already low for Maxine Waters. But it is, it is kind of interesting that you have this pretty massive backlash. We can put F9 up on this. On the screen, the Daily Mail headline, you know, there you could do polling of people around the country and they're like, this is bad. It's clearly bad. But I don't think you wanted to steal. Go ahead.

[Michael Malice]

I don't think it is clearly bad because I think it's very obvious that many of these congressional offices, it's their staff that are running it. Sir, I'm Thurman was decided not to run for reelection at the age of 100. So I think if you had, if you had a 40 year old Maxine Waters, I don't see how she'd govern any differently.

[Emily]

No, I don't think that's necessarily wrong. But the idea that somebody who is making these decisions, like in theory, it's wrong.

[Michael Malice]

Sure.

[Emily]

As the practice. Right, yes. So anyway, you have all this public backlash and it just keeps happening. Like we watched Feinstein, we heard about the K. Granger story. It just, it keeps rolling on. I don't think it ever, it's ever going to end well.

[Michael Malice]

I mean, careful Joe Biden, careful what you wish for. Because the replacement for Maxine Waters would probably be a lot closer to AOC and or it would be a lot more dangerous than Maxine Waters. And if people think you can't get worse than Maxine Waters, look at the mayor of New York. So be very careful. You know what you think? I would much rather you'd rather be

[Emily]

governed by Maxine than Mamdani.

[Michael Malice]

Yes, because I think Maxine is a. Although Mamdani hasn't been as bad as I feared. I think Maxine is just a classic like Democratic Party hack like Biden. Whereas if you're dealing with someone who's an ideologue, they're the ones who are a real problem because they have this like, sadism to their worldview that someone who's just on the take doesn't.

[Emily]

So. Gavin Newsom, speaking of California, is Bateman posting? We put F10 up on the screen. For so many years, people have been saying that Patrick Bateman and I look alike. Newsom posted on X. Now, this pick has been going all over the place. What do you think? It's his face split down the middle with Patrick Baitman's face split down the middle. Obviously, that's Christian Bale in one of the greatest American films of. Of all time, American Psycho. He's been trying to, like, over and over again embrace this Persona on X, but not really, like, when he's talking. And I think that's because he's. He's trying to do, like, he's trying to out Trump Trump on X and satirize Trump by acting like Trump. I will say, Michael, sometimes I'm like, oh, you kind of got him there. But most like, 85% of the time, it's terrible like this.

[Michael Malice]

You're not.

[Emily]

The guy's a serial killer.

[Michael Malice]

You're not. No, no, no, no, you're wrong. Because I remember Rand Paul or something was tweeting about Ted Cruz or the President, and Ted Cruz just replied with the Zodiac killer's letter, and it was just a bunch of symbols. So. And J.D. vance, there's that meme of him with the big fat face and the curly hair and JD Dressed like that meme, I think, for Halloween. Point being, you're not the audience. The audience are Democrats. And Democrats are hungry for someone who can step up to Trump and beat him at his own game and look at the Colbert audience and hack him to death.

[Emily]

Like poor Paul Allen with Huey Lewis and the news on in the background.

[Michael Malice]

Emily, you're going to think I'm joking, and I'll send you a picture if. If you doubt me, but upstairs in my living room, I have that coffee table from the movie, not the literal one, and underneath that, I have a bunch of newspapers that are the news. New York Times style section from the 80s for people who get the reference. So you're talking to the right person. Point being. But Patrick Bateman is. The meme is not a nefarious figure. It's regarded.

[Emily]

That's a good point.

[Michael Malice]

As someone who's kind of like, it

[Emily]

wasn't a Desantis campaign ad, wasn't it? I think the DeSantis campaign used it.

[Michael Malice]

I think so as well. So I think Newsom, the thing that was really strong for AOC was her social media game, and that's what kind of catapulted her to her level of prominence, not her accomplishments. So I think when you see Democrats are good at hacking the Internet. They love that Obama, they were talking in 2012 that Obama has social media down on lock so strongly that the Republicans are never going to win another presidential election. I remember the buzzfeed stories and Obama's got his sloppy stick in the Oval Office and oh my God, this guy's amazing. Like it's in the bag. We're never going to have a Republican president. So he's demonstrating he can play ball on different courts. And I think Pritzker is not doing that. Bashir is not doing that. Shapiro is not doing that. Groucho Whitmer's not doing that. AOC is the only one who can meet him in that regard. And but that's not him, you know, doing his tweets. I don't. That wasn't use of making that meme. He doesn't know how to combine two pictures. Like he's got some smart young people behind him who understand the game.

[Emily]

So on that note, he has been kind of opposed to this wealth tax, the billionaire tax that's been proposed by people like Ro Khanna Newsom has said, you know, I'm telling you, you're going to get capital flight, you're going to get people leaving the state. And indeed this is what's happening. We can put the element up on the screen for this. According to USA Today, a proposal to tax California's billionaires is testing the limits of America's enthusiasm for making the uber rich pay. Their share in that would they're saying it would raise, they're estimating it would raise $100 billion. Advocates are through a one time 5% wealth tax on roughly 200 California billionaires recently Mike Solana though malice surveyed a bunch of California billionaires. Almost all of them said they were leaving. There's some really high profile people who've said that they might leave. Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Peter Thiel, David Sachs, Mark Zuckerberg apparently looking to move to Florida. Zor Momdani has one has wanted to raise income taxes on people earning more than a which would take the top tax rate in the city from 3.9% to 5.9%. That is just their city taxes. Yeah, 5.9%. A new survey, a new study from Stanford has estimated actually that they wouldn't even raise as much money as they think they would raise from all of this. And Newsom being like oddly positioning himself as a bulwark while embracing the what's the right word for it like Randian soulless capitalist Patrick Bateman Persona. Now that I'm thinking about it. Michael is kind of interesting, but I

[Michael Malice]

don't think Rand's a big fan of Mass Murderer. I do own her copy of the Fountainhead. I don't think that's in there, but

[Emily]

depends on how strong you are.

[Michael Malice]

No, no, no, no. It's very well though they do kill a cop in Atlas Drugs, so I don't know, maybe you're right. But they do point being I that to be a billionaire and to move, you're going to have multiple residences anyway. So it's not like you have to pack anything. You have to fill out a piece of paper and say, I'm officially living in Florida. It's so it's really even easier than people think. And I don't call it a tax. It's a fine. You're fining people for making too much money. It's. It's crazy. And I think they think it's going to compete, that everyone's just going to follow suit and eventually they're going to stay put. New York especially. I mean, it's very easy to, you know, have a house in Connecticut, Jersey or you know, or Westchester, something like that. So it's. And I think what Mamdani's doing is he's making rent. You know, the rents are so high. New York. And then you're punishing people at the top. How this is going to kind of distort the real estate market, I don't know. But I, I'm not confident that it's going to be in a positive direction.

[Emily]

Yeah, it. I've heard Ro Khanna talk about this as an anti revolution tax. Again, it's a one time thing. Momdonnie's not a one time thing.

[Michael Malice]

I know you, I know they're saying it but like, does anyone listen to this, really think, why wouldn't it be one. Why would it be a one time thing if it works and I. Why wouldn't I do it again? It worked.

[Emily]

The math on it is really not great. According to City Journal actually looked into this, billionaires are among the Golden State's largest taxpayers, they write, paying an estimated 3.3 to 5.8 billion in state income taxes annually. According to the Stanford study. The researchers found that the present value of those lost future tax payments could exceed what the wealth tax would collect. That would leave California poorer overall, obviously. But that gets to the question of whether this can function as an anti revolution tax at all. Malice. And I want to take that argument seriously because I think it's the best argument for it there's a lot of simmering class based rage in California and all over the country right now. This as a solution to it is utterly unconvincing. But you won't find anyone taking that serious. I mean this could actually make it worse. Poor people are going to be worse

[Michael Malice]

off in California because you're told you're poor. You're told explicitly you're poor because those billionaires aren't paying what they should and now they're running away and that's why you can't get a job.

[Emily]

This was like the companies aren't paying what they should.

[Michael Malice]

No, but they're saying the bill like they will say the billionaires aren't paying their fair share and now they're moving to their big mansion in Florida while you can't make ends meet. So I don't think this is anti revolution at all. I think it foments class warfare and I think it's a dangerous cynical game these people are playing. And there's no amount of money that billionaires can pay where that poor person is happy being poor. That's the, that's the rub of it. No one is happy living hand to mouth. No one is happy living in a studio apartment. Unless you're like young and you know, living in New York and trying to meet your dreams. You could suck it up. But point being, if you're told that you're poor because somebody else is rich, there's no amount of taxation that's going to satisfy you. And here's the thing that I learned while I was writing my book. Then you write. There was this test, I think Jonathan Haidt who wrote the Righteous Mind wrote where he goes. Would you rather have a street where one house is a hundred thousand dollars, one is fifty thousand and one is forty or a street where each house is thirty thousand. And there's lots of people who said the second choice. And to someone like me, and I'm guessing someone like you, that is something we cannot wrap our heads around. But there are people who value equality over than wealth and people like Ro Khanna, I can't speak to him. I would guess thinking those terms. So while this wealth tax may not make sense to me or you, Obama said explicitly we should raise the capital gains tax even if it decreases revenue because it's fairer. So if the point of revenue is to help poor people, which ostensibly it is, and it's going to not help poor people, he doesn't care. He just wants fairness. And that is a word that has

[Emily]

no objective meaning Especially not in this context. One of the best questions you can ask people proposing these types of taxes is what is enough? What 5%? Why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20? And then for California to fail its people across the board to have the one of the worst governments for years run that state into the ground and then ask for more money is one of the dumbest. Without saying that maybe they could make a deal with billionaires and say you give us 5% tax and we're going to doge all of California. We're going to make the state way more efficient. They won't do that. They just want money to keep doing even worse.

[Michael Malice]

They can't even guarantee your house won't get burnt down.

[Emily]

Yep. Or that it'll ever, or, or that it'll ever be. Conditions will be met for rebuilding.

[Michael Malice]

It's insane that they didn't have fire breaks and all sorts of other things, mechanisms in place that, you know, what if a meteor hits, you know, or you know, you have some kind of weird act of God and all sorts of lightning storms and fires everywhere. These things happen on an irregular basis but you need to plan for them when those things do end up happening. The World Trade center was built to withstand a plane flying into it up to a certain size to my understanding. So people plan for these emergencies and I'm sorry, a fire in California is not some miraculous extinction event. This is something that plenty of people saw coming and they still didn't have plans in place.

[Emily]

Michael, we are going to take a quick break. We'll be back in just one moment. First, a fresh start is possible. Debt can feel like it's getting worse every month, but that only continues if nothing changes. PDS debt has already helped hundreds of thousands of people rewrite their financial story and take back control. And your turn can start right now. If you're struggling with credit cards, personal loans or medical bills. PDS debt creates personalized options to help you get out of debt. They look beyond the numbers to understand your situation and build a plan that that's designed specifically for you. They're A plus rated by the Better Business Bureau, have thousands of five star Google reviews and they hold a five star rating on trustpilot because their approach works. The best time to start was yesterday. The next best time is right now. If I had needed this product, it is what I would use. Don't wait another month. Change your story in 30 seconds. Get your free personalized assessment and the best option for you at pdsdebt.com Emily that's pdsdebt.com Emily again pdsdebt.com Emily if

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[Emily]

back now with Michael Malice, who's the host of you're Wrong, you're welcome. And author of the White Pill. I was going to say you're wrong, Malice, because you are wrong. A tale of good and evil. You're not wrong. But that is the, that's the Molly Hemingway David Harsani podcast, isn't it? But yours is. You're wrong. Yours is. You're welcome. Yeah, it is. It is.

[Michael Malice]

Okay.

[Emily]

You're welcome. Is the, is the OG though you've been. How long have you been doing your welcome? Like a long time.

[Michael Malice]

It's been 85 years.

[Emily]

Yes, but has it actually been like 10 years long?

[Michael Malice]

I think so at this point? Probably. Yeah. Yeah, it has. It's been 10 years.

[Emily]

That's crazy. Congrats on a decade of you're welcome. Say you're welcome.

[Michael Malice]

You are. Yeah, it's. It's been a minute.

[Emily]

All right, well, a lot to a lot more to get to here because I wanted to talk. You mentioned something actually earlier that made me think of this next topic. I almost jumped to it early, but I saved it. I don't know if you've been noticing this on X more and more. It's always been a thing, but it seems to me in the last six months it's been completely and totally out of control because somebody has taught bots or has just been cynical enough to keep weaponizing this function where people know like a newspaper back in the day, nobody reads beyond the headline. If you attribute a quote to someone and post a video, they won't watch the video. They'll just retweet with the quote over and over again. It happened with Tucker Carlson this week when some account posted a quote of Tucker Carlson that said allegedly Sharia law has made Islamic societies more advanced than the West. Now, whatever you think of Tucker Carlson, this is not at all what he said. The actual context of it. He doesn't say that explicitly. It is not a verbatim quote. Even though it was presented over and over again all over X by some very powerful accounts, even people in the media who consider themselves journalists. He did not say that. And if you had watched the video, that would have been clear. Now, Vigilant Fox pointed this out. This is F5. We can put it up on the screen. It was a. It was a great catch because if Tucker Carlson had said Sharia law has made Islamic societies more advanced than the west, that would indeed be interesting. But we can just move through F3, F4 and also F2. Mark Levin, Mr. Sharia First. He, quote, tweeted it and said Mr. Sharia first in reference to Tucker Carlson. Chris Cuomo. I hope he is okay. This is really nuts. He spelled nuts with a Z. Beautiful touch there. Mr. Cuomo. Ted Cruz, Senator Ted Cruz. Seriously, five years ago, who had on their bingo card that Tucker Carlson becoming an outspoken Tucker card. Tucker Carlson becoming an outspoken defender of Sharia law. He got community noted on that one, which is somewhat hilarious. But again, this is not what Tucker Carlson said in the interview. This was a conversation he had. I want to say it was like last fall with someone that had just been pulled up September and posted back on to the Internet here. And he was basically talking about the death of. Of European cities and the west comp to the decline of the west compared to Islamic societies. He does not say that anywhere. And this happens. It's not just on one side malice. It happens. There are people who, who do it in all directions. Have you noticed this happening more recently? Because to me, it seems like it's every day there's a major story and then I click on the video and a quote has been verbatim attributed to somebody.

[Michael Malice]

This just happened with Gavin Newsome where he was talking to an audience about being dyslexic and he lied and he said, you've never seen me read a speech. I don't know how to read a speech. And then people found footage it was. And they said, gavin Newsom tells a black audience he's as dumb as them. It wasn't a black audience and he wasn't saying he was as dumb as them. They cropped the part about him Saying it's dyslexia. And they're trying to make it sound like he's just saying spontaneously, he's illiterate. We saw this with Benghazi when Hillary's point was, look, what difference at this point does it make? These men are dead. We can't bring them back. And she's right, in a sense. It's like, it's a tragedy. You could have all the hearings you want, maybe you could prevent things in the future, but these men are gone irrevocably. It got caricatured like, oh, she doesn't care that they died. Very fine people is another example of this. The thing about that Tucker quote, which I found really crazy, was he was making. I looked this up before we aired because I'm like, I want to be sure he was saying that, you know, I say, I'm a Christian, they don't really care. It's illegal to be a Christian. There's no Church. There's 2 million Christians in Saudi Arabia. He was talking about Riyadh. It's illegal to have a church there. And it's illegal for non Muslims to step foot in Mecca, which is part of Saudi Arabia. So, yes, he's being factual in that regard, but he's not being truthful in that. Christianity is, you know, it's acceptable to practice in many of these Muslim majority countries.

[Emily]

Yes, yes. And even if you detest someone, argue against what they're actually saying.

[Michael Malice]

Yes, that's the cogent point.

[Emily]

Crazy. That's become. Has it become a meme, like a really cynical one, to start faking verbatim quotes? I don't know. I'm genuinely asking that because it just seems like the last six months it's been happening all of the time. It's happening in really heated debates. I see it all the time with the Israel topic, where people are taking someone and putting words, literally putting words into their mouth. It goes crazy on the Internet. And nobody's ever going to know that it wasn't a real quote because, I mean, maybe very few people will. But you have journalists like Chris Cuomo, somebody who has a television show like Mark Levin amplifying it, a senator amplifying it. Like, to me, that is just completely insane.

[Michael Malice]

I remember this was a boomer thing where you'd have a picture of Trump and someone put a quote on it and they would spread the meme. And it's like you just put words in a picture. This could be anything. Right. This is even worse because the video is attached and with the Gavin Newsom thing. It's. The context is very clear. If you just rewind a few seconds. I, I think this is going to get worse because I've said this before. I think during COVID people who run social media empires like Zuckerberg or now Elon figured out, what do you take, What'll it take to get people stuck on their screens as much as possible. During COVID everyone's watching X, everyone's watching social media because everyone's in a state of, like, hyperactivity. The COVID regime is gone, but that data isn't. And I think social media algorithms are designed to keep people constantly enraged and agitated and in a state of complete apoplexy. And I think it's only going to get worse because it works for them and it's very deleterious socially. And I don't know how you get out of this.

[Emily]

I want to get your take on this Kara Swisher clip before you run valis, because it's, it's so funny, like, even to just talk about it. So funny. Kara Swisher was talking about what she would do if Paramount ends up. Ends up getting its grubby hands all over cnn, where Karis Wisher, I think, is like a contributor on tech issues, something. I don't know what her formal title is at cnn, but let's just roll the clip. So you recently said that you leave CNN if Paramount won the bidding for Warner Brothers, perhaps as soon as the new series airs. We want to hear about the series.

[Kara Swisher]

For the series.

[Emma Waters]

They're not.

[Kara Swisher]

They haven't bought it yet. They have. It's not finished yet.

[Emily]

Is there a scenario in which you would stay anyway?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't see how.

[Emily]

Why? Tell us.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it's interesting because they've been calling me. They've been very nice. They're like, hey, Kara, good show with Matt Bellany. They're doing a lot of friendly, friendly with me right now, which is like, too bad it's not gonna work.

[Emily]

Everybody loves me. It's such a burden.

[Kara Swisher]

As I say, I don't think they'll be good owners. I don't. I think they've already shown several times, including editorial choices, which Scott knows more about than I though. I know a lot, Scott, that they have no interest in journalism and I refuse to work for an organization that doesn't respect journalists.

[Michael Malice]

Oh, please, girl.

[Emily]

You work at cnn. You work at cnn. You work at Apple versus Banana cnn. Come on. Come on. What are we doing here?

[Michael Malice]

We don't know what her performance reviews are like. She probably sees the writing on the wall. There's lots of people who, it's easier to cut. If you're going to cut budget, which they probably would, you're going to cut it with the people who are just getting disproportionate salaries. So this could very much be, you can't fire me. I quit. And you know, the journalists are, there's, there's few groups who are more kind of up their own butts than journalists are. But the, the level of self congratulatory rhetoric you just heard in that little clip is just something downright Trumpian.

[Emily]

That's. There's nothing you could do to insult Kara Swisher more than to call her Trump.

[Michael Malice]

Am I wrong? I'm the best. I'm too good for these people, but I'm doing it anyway. I believe in honesty. They believe in paychecks. And this is my cross to bear. If I have to leave, it's going to be their loss 100%.

[Emily]

And they won't stop blowing up my phone because I'm in such high demand.

[Michael Malice]

Emily, so many phone calls every day. You did such a great show. How are you putting together? I'm honest, that's how. Something they don't understand.

[Emily]

And you know what drives me crazy about this is she has a. CBS is making some dubious editorial choices and there is like an actual conversation to be had about oligarchy and media ownership in the context of Larry Ellison and David Ellison and the Paramount deal. But like Tony de Coppol's ratings are horrible. Horrible. Like we're talking worse in years, which is crazy because they swapped him out to prevent it from getting worse. So she's not wrong about any of that. But to say that you have like any ground to stand on, any moral high ground when it comes to journalism and editorial decisions from your perch at cnn, I mean, that's just too good.

[Michael Malice]

But I mean, don't you think someone's probably leaking to her that there's like a short list that people are going to be given the door and she's probably high on that list.

[Emily]

That's probably true. No, that's probably true. If it were to happen, I would imagine she wouldn't continue to have a job. Why would she? I mean, she's why people don't trust the media. The, the smugness, the like unwillingness to come to issues with any semblance of an open mind whatsoever. Acting like you have the voice of God. She's all of those things wrapped into one person.

[Michael Malice]

And my understanding is CNN'S biggest audience is airport people. Like, that's, I think, is not a huge proportion of their viewership.

[Emily]

I thought they got rid of their deals.

[Michael Malice]

Oh, they did.

[Emily]

Like one of the big airport chains. Yeah. Or chains, whatever you call them.

[Michael Malice]

But if I'm a lefty, I'm going to watch Ms. Now. Like, why am I watching cnn? Do you know what I mean? They're really. Or some podcasters. Like, they're really kind of an anachronism. They were the first to market with Ted Turn, I think late 70s. But now it's like, who do they have and why are you there? Even Don Lemon's gone.

[Emily]

Even Don Lemon. Even Don Lemon. Oh, sad times. Michael Malice, host of your welcome. Author of the White Pill. So great to have you back on the show.

[Michael Malice]

Thanks for your pleasure.

[Emily]

So great to have Michael Malice. I just repeat myself. That's how much fun it is to have Malice on the show. Now going to bring in another friend. First time on the show for Emma Waters, who is the author of a new book called Lead like jl. Now, Emma, I'm very eager to dive into this. The subhead is Seven Timeless Principles. Actually, Emma, you just tell us seven

[Emma Waters]

timeless principles for today's women of faith.

[Emily]

Exactly.

[Emma Waters]

Yeah.

[Emily]

And you, I wanted you to tell us a little bit about what you do in case people haven't encountered your work before. What's your day job? And why did you write Lead like JL yeah.

[Emma Waters]

So I am a policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation. So day to day, I am doing all things federal and state policy as it relates to reproductive technology, emerging biotechnologies, infertility, women's health, all of the least controversial issues you can imagine today. And you may be wondering, well, why is a policy analyst who focuses on these areas writing a book about faith and biblical womanhood and digging into the cultural battles around women today. And the reason, frankly, is that every time in the last couple of years that I've given a talk about half the questions afterwards have nothing to do with the policy areas that I'm working on. But they're very practical questions coming from young women and increasingly young men who were saying, okay, setting all of that other stuff aside, how do you actually get married? How do you date? How do you attract a spouse? How do you even make sense of having children like, you seem to be doing it? What in the world do we do today? And so having this story and having this be a topic that I really did wrestle with for so many years myself, myself, I decided to take the Time to write a book, to really speak to the second half of questions that I'm getting more and more these days.

[Emily]

Okay, very important to get into that. And right now there's this push and pull tug of war game happening, as you know, because you write about it all the time, about whether Gen Z is trad or girl boss. And Gen Z doesn't know the answer to that question because they're confused to the point you just raised. They're asking you questions, what's the right way to go? And so what's your sense? You've looked at the polling on this. You've looked at the trends. You've just written a book to try and deal with the issue. Are young women today going in one direction more than the other? Are there misconceptions about what's happening?

[Emma Waters]

Yes. So this is a question that plagued me during the entire writing process because of course, we're seeing this incredible revival among young men in America who are returning to fame, faith, and are returning to family in these unprecedented numbers. They're more likely to go to church, to read their Bible, to pray, even more so than young women in the same category. And so I genuinely had this question of, am I writing into the void? Are there even young women who were interested in this sort of revival? And it's been incredibly encouraging because in the last couple of months alone, we started getting statistics, particularly about women in Gen Z, showing that while it is still at the very beginning, and while it is still a slight increase, Gen Z is more likely than millennials and generations before them to really start to rethink and prioritize the family. And so what I found through the research for lead like JL is that I think we're certainly at the beginning of that revival and of that turning point, but most women in Gen Z don't relate to girl boss feminism. On the one hand, that says put your career before before all else. And in fact, girl bossing is kind of cringe for Gen Z, which I think is a good thing on the whole. And yet at the same time, the trad wife movement, for all of its positive signals and attempts at sort of cultivating domesticity, is also not the sort of rigid model that most women are looking for. They, they want something in between that as strong, dedicated, smart women who want the freedom to prioritize family and having children and getting married, but not at the expense of or at odds with maybe the work or passion or callings that they feel. And so instead of having two rigid, contrasting life strips that really pit work and motherhood against each other. I think there's a silent majority of women in America today who really are trying to carve that third path that allows them to honor the family but also honor these gifts that they have as well. And I think we're at the beginning of seeing that really take shape. Shape in a similar fashion as we've seen it with young men in the United States.

[Emily]

Okay, there's a lot to get into, but some proof of your point came courtesy of Olivia Rodrigo recently. She's, I believe, 23 years old. I saw this quote from her today, quote, I want to be a mom more than anything. She said, I already feel like I've done a lot in my career that I've wanted to do and feel more mature for my age than maybe I should. I'm definitely a lover girl. Like, I want to be in something committed and so in love. Emma, couple things there. One, she talks about the order of when you should have children or when she. Not when you should. But she, in her personal experience is talking about the order. She says at one point, I feel like I've already done a lot in my career that I've wanted to do. Interesting. Secondly, she's 23, which I think 10 years ago the consensus in elite spaces would have been, ew, ick. Why are you even thinking about having children? You are a child yourself. You have 10 more years before you have to get into any of that. And here's one of the most famous young women in Gen Z just come out and saying that and not getting any controversy, really, that I've seen.

[Emma Waters]

Yeah, this is, I think, one of the most incredible signals of how the Overton window is shifting. You have women like Jesse Buckley recently at the Oscars who simply gushed about her husband and wanting to have children, 20,000 babies with him in her acceptance speech. Compared to some of the clear pro abortion rhetoric that we've seen in previous years, you have this example with Olivia Rodriguez where there's this, I think, recognition among Gen Z that having children and becoming a mother can be a high status pursuit in a woman's life. It's no longer something that signals that you're unserious about your career, but maybe actually signals you understand what really matters most in life. And I. And I think there's a sense too, where there are more opportunities and doors open for women than ever before, whether that's in higher education or competitive in the market, in the public sphere. These incredible pop stars who have really lived the sort of Hannah Montana childhood dream that many of us have. And they're realizing that for all that

[Emily]

was timely, I see what's on your mind these days, Emma.

[Emma Waters]

Who hasn't been imbibing the reunion content completely?

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

That's going to be, you're younger than

[Emily]

me, so that matters.

[Emma Waters]

We'll come back on for that conversation when it comes. But I think there's this recognition that for all the incredible experiences and all the incredible choices that are before women today, that those you, you don't want to choose those at the expense of becoming a mother and that maybe there's something irreplaceable and truly special about prioritizing that. And I think for many of these people, Olivia Rodriguez included, right, if they were to start having children tomorrow, it wouldn't mean that they never sing again and never, never did a concert, but maybe that they would start to reorder their life to make room sooner for family and for children rather than waking up and realizing that they had missed out on it because they had been so single minded on their career.

[Emily]

Well, you're not Olivia Rodrigo. And this quote, I remember when the article came out F17, this was the Wall Street Journal piece. It kind of rocketed around political Twitter. You said the you can have it all mindset is true. So misleading and sets women up for disappointment. You got a beautiful photo shoot with your children, which must have been kind of a nice gift, Emma. But what do you mean by that? Because I've seen a lot of dunking from the left on Laura Ingram and Katie Miller just in the last week because they had a comment about how feminism is misleading and they both happen to be working mothers. Phyllis Schlafly got this for decades. You're a hypocrite. You're prescribing something to other women that you don't want for yourself. It undermines your entire point. How do you respond to all of that?

[Emma Waters]

So the my favorite fun fact about Phyllis Schlafly is that when she started her very public career defending and really ultimately defeating the Equal Rights Amendment, she was actually 49 years old. Her children were very, her children were independent or even out of the home. At that point, she just looked so incredible for her age. No one believed that she was that old like they thought she was still in her 20s having kids, which, which I'm all I'm seeing is goals across the board that I too would like to be confused for that at 49. But I think the response is pretty simple because ultimately when you talk about the you can have it all mindset. What that usually and what that always means is this very career first mantra of girl boss feminism, which always says in, in the order of having it all, you should pursue your career, your education, and really view marriage and children as the capstone, the thing that you do once you've achieved sort of professional

[Emily]

goal, which is interesting because that's kind of what Olivia Rodrigo was looking at it as, as well. But maybe there's nuance right between 23.

[Emma Waters]

I think that's nuanced 23 versus like 38. Like, I think that would be a big difference in how you think about these things. But yeah, because ultimately, right, like you're then you're prioritizing career, saying, I can have it all by having the career now. And then either delaying children to a point where it's going to just be a lot harder to have kids. And so in many cases you have women being told, well, you should freeze your eggs. You can rely on ivf. This will be a straightforward process. And the reality is, is that while IVF certainly does work for many women, it doesn't work for all women. And choosing to delay having children, and that's a particular category. So choosing to delay having children to pursue your career is setting yourself up for an unnecessary risk that what happens if it doesn't work, work out? Then all of a sudden you have the career, but you don't have the children you desire. Or on the other hand, this is, I think, where it gets really controversial. If you are working a really high powered, intense job that does demand a lot of you and you're having kids at the same time, the reality is that you don't have as much time to spend with your children as maybe they need from you at these early ages. And this is something Erica Komisar has covered extensively in her child research with the Institute for Family Studies, is that children, especially children 0 to 3, need their mother's presence with them as much as possible. And if you pursue a sort of you can have it all mindset where you're working these super intense hours, 50, 60 hours out of the house, then the reality is, is that it's your children who are paying the price for that. And so I think that's where a lot of the, like, the very controversial conversations come in of like, okay, what does it look like to actually embrace a seasonal approach to life which says it doesn't mean you can't work at all, but, like, what does it look like to structure your life around what is best for your family? And if you have kids around, what is best for your kids, choosing jobs that allow you to be the most present for them, or cutting back to part time or not working, depending on your situation, and recognizing that with every season and with the demands of your family, that can change. And this is something that Phyllis Schlafly has done, that Katie Miller has done, that a number of women, I think, who you see in a very public position now at previous times really did scale up and scale down their career as the demands of their family and of their children really required that of them. And I think this is the beauty of technology today is it's far more possible for me to join you for this conversation and to have this like, very public profile while still getting to be primarily home with my girls during the day, that's not something that would have been possible in previous generations. And I think this is where some of the beauty the of. Of our generation, and maybe part of like Gen Z's rethinking, is that they're realizing that there's not this sort of like extreme binary that you can still like have a foot in the professional world while prioritizing your kids, but you can't do, you can't do a job that requires everything of you and still maybe be present with your children in the way that they need. And that's what I think, that you can have it all mindset can ultimately be so misleading.

[Kara Swisher]

On.

[Emily]

Yeah, you know, post Covid, one of the things that we continue to see is politically, young men and women drifting further apart, so becoming more polarized. But to the point you just made, I was always going to be surprised if young women didn't have some moderating. There wasn't a moderating effect on a couple of cultural questions just because of the health awareness, the tech awareness that came after Covid. And I mean, you've been a sharp critic, rightfully so, of drift in the Protestant church. If people follow you on X, they've seen plenty of it, and rightfully so. But tell us about JL, right? Like tell us about, in the context of 2026, why you chose JL and why you think maybe the church in some spaces hasn't really lived up to the tradition, even though it's. It's healthier and better.

[Emma Waters]

Yeah, this is such a fun question. So for those who haven't read the Old Testament recently, the story of Jael is found in Judges chapters four and five. It's this unassuming housewife at home in her tent at the time when Israel was at war with their ongoing enemy, the Canaanites. So as the enemy, as the war rages on, Israel is starting to defeat the Canaanites. The general comes stumbling out into the tent of Jael. Now, Jael sees him from afar, looks out from her tent, recognizes who he is. And as he comes toward her, she invites him in. He's famished, he's exhausted. And he says, please, I just want some water and a soft place to rest. And she says, come, come. Here's some warm milk. Come lay down. Well, the moment he falls asleep, Jael grabs a tent peg and a mallet and drives it through his skull, thus soundly defeating Israel's enemy. And you may be thinking, oh, no, is she calling for biblical women to take up the sword and fight, to somehow violence? And to be very clear, no. The lesson is not that we need women.

[Emily]

I'll do it. I'll do it.

[Emma Waters]

I'll let. I'll let Emily decide for herself there.

[Emily]

Honestly, if the opponent is Lindy West. Well, I'm not going to say. I was going to say something very unkind, but I'm just going to let people fill in the gap.

[Emma Waters]

Sure. So the spiritual principles here that I think can be so overlooked in the text. So on the one hand, you have evangelicals who say, yes, this is a perfect example of Hugo girl feminism. She's taking down the enemy. She's fighting the patriarchy, subverting the culture. And in reality, the story is actually far more unconventional and far more compelling than we've ever given it credit for. And so what's so fascinating about it is that setting up and taking down tents was actually a feminine, domestic, domestic duty. Jael would have used that same wooden tent peg and mallet hundreds, if not thousands of times to secure her home from the elements and from outside danger. And so it's actually only because she had been faithful to those ordinary, mundane responsibilities of being a wife, a mother, and a homemaker that she was equipped to defeat Israel's enemy when he came knocking at her door. So notably, she is politically engaged. She recognized him from afar. She didn't just bury her head in the sand and say, well, the culture war, that's for someone else to deal with. I don't have to think about it. My husband will think about it. Right. So it's not the sort of airhead trad wife that you see online sometimes. And yet at the same time, she didn't pick up the sword, she didn't run into battle, she didn't chase him down and in fact, no woman in the canonical Bible ever picks up the sword to fight. So it tells us that there's this. This distinctly feminine way that women are called to fight and lead that is shown throughout the Old Testament. And yet it is no less consequential for so many victories that are won like JL's, because ultimately, she feared God more than man. And in this very distinctly feminine way, using household tools, defeated Israel's enemy, thus defending her home. And so, as I thought about biblical femininity today, I don't know about you, Emily, but I think there were many times in my life where I sort of rolled my eyes and I was like, oh, no, not another biblical femininity. It's going to be pink. There's going to be flowers. We talk about our feelings, and it didn't always really relate to me, and it wasn't always very compelling. And yet Jael's story, I think, is one that is so unconventional. It sort of breaks through our initial dismissal of biblical femininity and really forces us to think more deeply about what it means to be a God, godly, wise, and faithful woman who's actually ready and equipped to defend her home when evil comes. And the reality is that evil will always come knocking at your door. The question is if you're there to answer it when it comes or if you're going to unintentionally let your home be taken over by evil and sin and the culture battles that are today. And it's only because she was present in her home and faithful that she was actually able to defend her home at the time called upon her.

[Emily]

Self defense. Not just a job for men. Emma Waters. Where can people get the book?

[Emma Waters]

You can order the book anywhere. It's sold Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and the list goes on. But it officially came out yesterday, so now is the best time to order.

[Emily]

Man, you gotta go get some sleep. Congrats. I'm sure that you're about to lose your voice, so thanks for joining us, Emma. Of course.

[Emma Waters]

Thanks so much, Emily.

[Emily]

All right, give Emma a follow on social media as well. She's a great follow. Super, super interesting thinker. We have more to come. I got those Kimmel comments. You're not gonna wanna miss this. Coming up in just one moment. But first, this spring, if you're ready to finally see glowing skin, stronger hair, and steady energy, you need to add colostrum to your daily routine. Because it all starts in the gut. And once your gut health is right, everything else follows. That is where colostrum comes in Cowboy Colostrum provides the highest quality first day whole bovine colostrum available in the US sourced exclusively from 100% American grass fed cows and their ethical practices only collect surplus colostrum after calves have had their fill and it's easy to use. Just mix a scoop of your favorite flavor. Chocolate, Madagascar vanilla, matcha or strawberry. I like strawberry into your coffee or morning smoothie for a daily boost. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com afterparty and use code AFTERPARTY at checkout. That's 25 off when you use code [e-mail] afterparty After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

[Emma Waters]

Wasn't that delicious?

[Emily]

So good. Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it.

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[Emily]

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[Emily]

out tonight's show with this wild comment from Jimmy Kimmel. After Mark Wayne Mullen was officially sworn in as the Homeland Security Secretary yesterday, the vote was Monday. Swearing in was yesterday. And now the former senator from Oklahoma is officially the replacement for Kristi Noem at the Department of Homeland Security. So here is how Jimmy Kimmel reacted to the news on his show last night.

[Jimmy Kimmel]

Don't worry, Trump's got a whole new generation of thinkers lined up, including his newly confirmed Secretary of Homeland Security, Mark Wayne. Chuck Mike Bruce, Dave Mullen. Maybe Mellon's better. He is the now former Senator of Oklahoma. Before he was elected to the Senate, Mark Wayne Mullen was a low level MMA fighter and A plumber.

[Michael Malice]

That's right.

[Jimmy Kimmel]

We have a plumber protecting us from terrorism. Now I work for Super Mario. Why not Mark Wayne? But honestly, I mean, if Trump is going to keep picking these unqualified people to run the department, why not have more fun with, I mean, next time, instead of Mark Wayne, how about Lil Wayne for Homeland Security? At least we could get a concert out of it, right?

[Emily]

I mean, non ironically. Good idea. It's actually don't put Lil Wayne in charge of anything but Jimmy Kimmel. The way he said plumber, you heard it, he was like, plumber says it, just dripping with contempt. You can hear it in his voice. And it's amazing because I have to say, from the beginning, from the beginning, conservatives did this with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez talking about how she was a bartender. And I don't even need to get into the specifics of AOC's bartending history to say it was obviously trotted out the exact same way by people on the right to say, oh, she's just a bartender. And from the beginning, by the way, I've thought that's ridiculous because if you're a member of the House of Representatives, we're going to talk about DHS in a moment. You are supposed to be representative. That was the exact model the framers had in mind when they designed the system. It was that people who are from their community are supposed to come to Washington and do work as citizen legislators. So it's is completely ridiculous, first of all, to say that somebody isn't qualified because they're a bartender. Say she's not qualified, not because she's a bartender, but because her ideas are. Are bad. Or make an argument about why, if you're a bartender, you have to also have, you know, XYZ qualifications leading in your local community over the years. Something like that. But when you just say it's because she's a bartender, you're saying that average Americans, normal people who go about their daily lives, lack sufficient wisdom to be in Congress, which is stupid. Now moving over to the Department of Homeland Security, dhs, a lot of people probably don't know this. Plumbers. I looked this up before the show, so I had the exact number according to the national association of home builders, but 18% of plumbers, there's an 80% immigrant share among plumbers. And it's, you know, varies across different trades in the construction industry. But if you're in charge of dhs, you actually probably have a sense of what businesses deal with and what competition means from Non citizens for citizens and the like. If you come with the experience of a normal human being who has worked in an industry where you're alongside foreign born, non citizen migrant laborers. And that's where Mark Wayne Mullen's career started. He took over his dad's in the late 90s. I think it was his, his dad's small plumbing company. And I'm told that in Oklahoma, Mullen Plumbing is something of a name. It's a huge plumbing company. It was transformed by Mark Wayne Mullen into a company so big that he literally sold it to a private equity firm. He took it over and it had like six employees and blew it up into a of bunch a huge company. And so without getting even into the specifics of that, he then goes into Congress. He's a senator. What more do you want? Jimmy Kibble. What more than you? What more do you want? It's not like we took him straight out from under the sink and put him in the Senate. And even if we did or put him at dhs, even if we did, even if we did, he would do significantly less damage and maybe even be significantly better than Alejandro Mayorkas. Are we really appealing to the expertise here of Alejandro Mayorkas? Is that what we're doing? It's so stupid. He uses his perch as a comedian to give us political lectures. Like this is he doesn't just do comedy. Have you seen him sometimes when he transitions into these like dead serious lectures? He loves to do that. It's one of his favorite things to do. Even when it's not about him, when he's not the story of the FCC narrative, he's not the center of the FCC story or Trump isn't mad at him. He will transition into dead serious political lectures. Actually, just the other day Vince Vaughn was talking to Theo Vaughn about how late night became lecture. Like you were in a class that you didn't want to be in is I think what Vince Vaughn said. Yes, you are watching your favorite late night show that you're in the habit of watching for 20, 30 years and suddenly you are getting a lecture on white privilege or whatever else from a comedian who probably read one book on the topic or listened to a podcast on the topic. And now Jimmy Kimmel, who has been doing these lectures, has the audacity to flip it around and say, you senator House member, you are not qualified because before you were in Congress you were part of a family plumbing business. Mark Wain Mullen is actually, whether you agree with the guy or not, and I have to say we'll see like even from a conservative immigration perspective, how good Mark Wayne Mullen is. There are a lot of people who are very skeptical about where he's going to take the administration's immigration policy, what direction it's going to go in. We will see. But whatever you think of the guy, he is on paper actually the perfect. He's like the perfect. His career has followed the. The sort of perfect map of what the framers would have wanted to see happen. I don't know that they would be happy with the existence of DHS in the first place, to be honest. But we live in a post 911 world, so it exists. And if you were to actually put out a like template of who should rise to positions like that, it would be somebody exactly like Mark Wayne Mullen, whether they were a Democrat or a Republican. And the fact that writers in Kimmel, I think he's in la. Yeah, he's based in Hollywood, out in la. The fact that writers put that into the script, that it was looked at by the producers and that Kimmel thought it was great and delivered it with just utter contempt for even the word plumber is so telling. Charles Murray wrote in Coming APART what in 2012, 2014, around that time period about the existence of super zips where pockets of affluence were concentrating further and further. They're definitely super zips around Los Angeles and there are super zips around Washington D.C. and New York City. And what that means is you're in less contact with the plumber. Right. The plumber who comes to fix your house in Brentwood probably doesn't live anywhere near Brentwood or like you live in Brentwood. It's probably a totally different life for them and didn't used to be that way in the US that's part of what Murray documents in Coming Apart is that it was a shift over the course of the last several decades. So you couldn't find a better clip to illustrate it than Jimmy Kimmel coming out and saying we all should feel less safe because. Because there's a plumber reducing Mark Wayne Mullen to just a plumber and then that makes him unqualified to be DHS secretary. So on that note, I couldn't resist doing that clip. I couldn't resist doing that clip. Thank you so much for tuning in to Tonight's edition of Afterparty. We're here live every Monday and Wednesday at 9pm Eastern. But I know a lot of you catch up later, which I love as well. So please do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, support our journalism them. It's really, really helpful. Like Comment Leave a Review so grateful to all of you for listening and for watching. We'll be back with more on this week's edition of Happy Hour. That's Friday. You can email [e-mail] believe me, already gotten plenty of email reaction to Daryl Davis. We'll certainly address that on Friday's edition of Happy Hour. It'll drop around 5pm Eastern, so if you have questions, make sure to send them by tomorrow afternoon. I usually take in early evening. Emilymaycare media.com I'll catch you Friday around 5pm on happy hour and then right back here with another edition of After Party on Monday live at 9pm.

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