← After Party with Emily Jashinsky
After Party with Emily Jashinsky
Tim Walz's Contemptible Minnesota Messaging, and Kanye Says Sorry, with Michael Malice, PLUS Corporate Media's Reckoning
01:20:00
Emily Jashinsky opens the show with a deep dive into the framing of the current immigration debate, arguing emotional narratives are being used to obscure larger policy failures. Then Emily is joined by Michael Malice, Host of “Your Welcome” and author of “Not Sick of Winning,” They begin with an emotional discussion of Michael’s eulogy for Scott Adams, and Michael shares behind the scenes details about the celebration of Scott’s life, the dark humor, and what he got to take home with him. Then the conversation turns to Minneapolis and the new signs both The White House and local leaders want de-escalation, plus Greg Bovino’s comments that sparked backlash from 2A supporters. They also discuss Minnesota Governor Tim Walz’s offensive comparison of U.S. immigration enforcement to what happened to Anne Frank, Jennifer Welch’s viral rant labeling white evangelical Christians as immoral, and Meg Stalter’s video claiming Christian faith demands abolishing ICE, plus the unsealed court doc...
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Emily
Momento seno frecido porriquea encuentre en su.
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- [01:08]
Emily
Welcome to Afterparty, the show that you come to and you are just not sick of these horrible news cycles. Today's guest will be a cheerful, optimistic, sunny one. Michael Malice is back. We're going to get to him in just one moment. First, please subscribe. I'm so bad about plugging the subscription, but it's really the most helpful thing you could do. Subscribe on YouTube and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can also send me an email on emily doublemaker media.com and you can send in questions that I answer on the Friday edition of the show. It's audio only. It's on your podcast apps. It's called Happy Hour. So tune in. I'm sure many of you are snowed in this evening. Maybe you are snowed in and drunk because it's what, 10pm you started drinking. You're not at work so you're in your pajama pants. You started drinking around 4pM I'm not speaking for myself actually was working today and behaving responsibly. But I bet some of you have had a pretty chill day. Maybe you have one of those little mouse movers, I don't know. But we're happy to be here. Internet is all up and it's, it's working okay. So we are gonna get to it. The swirl of news out of Minnesota is just non stop and you've seen the news about the death of Alex Pretty preddy in the streets of Minneapolis and we have a lot to talk about with with Michael. On that note, I want to start though just with a little some thoughts on the framing of the Broader debate a couple weeks ago was talking about how, I think what is often frustrating is the framing of the conversation, not just about Minneapolis, Minnesota or Los Angeles or even going back to kids in cages. I mean, there were some really poignant juxtapositions of how the kids in cages, even if it wasn't exactly apples to apples, were covered during the Obama administration and during the Trump administration. And while it's true that our gatekeepers in quote, unquote, mainstream media and legacy media are. Their power is greatly diminished. Right. So much so that it's often kind of funny, we can laugh at it, but they're still very, very powerful. And the heuristic that I use just in my own mind is macro versus micro. And the question in the killing of Renee Goode, the killing of Alex Preddy, is this micro or does it tell us something about the macro? And to the left, of course, they absolutely believe that these are essential to the macro conversation about or winning the macro argument. I should say that this validates their argument in the macro picture about a sort of rogue ICE agency, dhs, out of control and the like. It's true that DHS is basically on a hiring spree and has a lot more new funding. It's also true, of course, and this so often it is the most obvious bit of context. Last week we went through that David Leonhardt story in the New York Times, written within weeks of the 2024 election, on how the surge of migrants for about three years under Biden was basically the largest in all of American history, larger than the Ellis island surge. And we're talking an average of like 2.4 million new people coming into the country every single year. So, yes, it stands to reason that your Department of Homeland Security, that ICE is going to expand because there was a problem created. That is not an excuse to deal with the problem poorly, but it is an explanation for why. Obviously, obviously, Department of Home, the Department of Homeland Security and ICE has made some errors. This is obviously not a perfect Department of Homeland Security or Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. And in fact, the news right now, we'll get to this with Michael in just a bit, is that it seems as though reading between the lines of reporting, the Daily Wire, the Daily Caller, and also in some of these legacy outlets, the Tom Homan camp has been frustrated with the Kristi Noem camp. The news as of tonight is that Homan is being sent to Minneapolis because Trump seems to be wanting to calm the situation rather than invoke the Insurrection act, as many people have been Demanding. And maybe it's political, maybe it's substantive, but Tom Homan now seems to be in the driver's seat. We're going to get some new updates in Gregory Bovino in just one moment as well. But what I wanted to do is just basically say if I throw this post from Derek Thompson up on the screen. This is obviously Derek Thompson is a writer for the Atlantic and he says even if you take the conservative defense of each ice killing, you're left with, quote, we haphazardly scaled up a poorly trained police force to storm into neighborhoods that voted against the president where we antagonize the local population until someone resists arrests and then we kill them, end quote. Thompson goes on to say, which is morally horrendous on top of being an absurd way to do immigration policy. Listen, I have my differences with the way this administration has prosecuted its immigration policy, which in and of itself was going to be a massive challenge to a massive problem that was created by the prior administration. I think there should be more white collar prosecutions going after employers, the owners of the meat packing plants, for example, who are knowingly employing illegal immigrants so that they can pay people less and that all of the identity theft continues to be perpetuated. Children continue to be exploited in labor situations. So listen, it, I've had my differences here, but to even just post that leaves out so very much of the story, which is where I wanted to get to. I saw this from immigration attorney Eric Lee. It is a picture of frowning stick figures behind bars, clearly driven by a child, clearly drawn by a child. It Sundays, I am five years old. It's kind of scribbled at the top in crayon. And, and Eric Lee says a drawing made today by a five year old girl at Dilly Detention center and member of the Al Gamal family, which a mom and five kids detained for almost eight months. This child turned five in detention and has spent almost 20% of her life in jail. Quote, let us go. All right, now let me put this Alibeth Stucky post up on the screen. You're gonna understand exactly where I'm going with this. Alibeth has been talking about the framing and emotional manipulation. Obviously this is right in line with her book Toxic Empathy, which we talked to her about a couple of months ago here on the show. She post an Instagram message that, that she received and said, quote, we've got a lot of work to do. This was in response to a post that she put up on our neighbors who were ignored. That's what it said. And it had a picture of Lake and Riley, I think also Jocelyn Nungaray. Oh, it had Molly Tibbets and Kate Steinle. So awful cases. And someone responded, Lake and Riley, dot, dot, dot, dot. Never heard of her. And that's where Alibeth says we've got a lot of work to do. And that's where I go back to this picture that Eric Lee posted from a child. And it breaks my heart and it should break your heart too. And I think, what the heck? Why did your parents take the risk of bringing you to the United States? I want to know if you have a real asylum case or an economic migration case. Lot of sympathetic economic migration cases, but they are not asylum cases. Did you leave when the Trump administration that says they've been in detention for almost eight months? Did you leave when the Trump administration offered to pay, offered to these bonuses? Did you follow all statutes? Some people have, they have followed appropriate protocol and they're non citizens in the country and, and they've still had difficult times. Don't think that's the majority of cases. And I would really like to know if I should have any frustration here with the family. Because if we once again zoom out to the macro context, millions of people came into the country every single year and were told by the Biden administration and employers, come on in, you can wait out these asylum cases. You probably don't have an asylum case, but maybe they'll expand it and you can hang out here and wait, cross your fingers, send some remittances home. But to put your children in that situation is as desperate as the circumstances are in Nicaragua or wherever you're coming from Guatemala, wherever you're coming from Venezuela, to put a child in that situation where you are living tenuously in another country hoping that policies don't change. Millions of people did that. People sent their kids to live with strangers, in some cases distant relatives, not even acquaintances. The Biden administration lost track of so many children that eventually the Biden admin or eventually the New York Times blew the whistle on it in a critical story that I know a lot of people probably remember. I mean, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of kids talking about millions of people who are waiting it out in this country. The Trump administration's best policy has been self deportation. On immigration, they say it's been more than 2 million people, which is about a year's worth of the people who came during that three year surge in the Biden administration. So maybe that's what the administration can pursue going forward. Maybe they can double the bonus, that $1,000 bonus, maybe that entices more people to leave and it's cheaper. I don't know. I know that some of these micro cases are obviously very disturbing. I also know the macro picture is that we have a country in which. Let me pull up this Jacob Fry post from tonight. He said violent criminals should be held accountable based on the crimes they commit, not based on where they are from. He posted that on X. That's a crazy way to denigrate the privilege of being an American citizen. This is something that we just toss away and say it's the same as residency. It means something. And so yes, people should be treated, especially criminals should be treated differently based on whether they're citizens legally in the legal system or whether they're non citizens. And the flippancy with which you see people on the left talk about citizenship and what it means to be in the United States versus being a citizen of the United States is why you had a de facto open border where people were turning themselves in, claiming asylum and then getting dates years in the future. Saw them with my own eyes at the border and, and hanging out in the country. And they are now squeezed in horrible situations. And it's not all the Biden administration's fault. Some of it is the fault of choices individuals made. So it's heart wrenching and awful. And I had that, I said this before pit in my stomach every time I talk to migrants during the Biden surge who just knowing, knowing that the American this wasn't sustainable. It wasn't a sustainable bargain with the American people. And of course it ultimately wasn't. And of course now not only do you have a backlash, but you have reasonable policies that should be implemented to retain the privilege of citizenship and to do it of course, all humanely, as humanely as is possible and orderly as is possible. But. And it's not been perfect, I'll be the first person to say that. But I really find it frustrating that even after what happened during the Biden administration, the framing that led to the Biden surge, because Democrats were both cowardly and cynical. Cowardly in the respect that they didn't want to upset the base and cynical in the respect that they didn't in some cases they were, it was, it was fully ideological. They are understanding the, the human toll that this was taking, the humanitarian crisis that was being created, that's still with us. That is not in the past. That is still a constant news hook to be talking about. So that's what I wanted to just lead off the show with tonight because it continues to be frustrating and it seems like it hasn't gotten any better, which is probably not surprising to most of you, but worth mentioning now. Malice is going to be on in a second. I've made him sit and listen to me long enough. But first, small businesses are the backbone of the American economy, but getting Getting funding from traditional banks is an uphill battle. Of the 36 million small businesses in the US over 70% report needing additional capital every year while revenue is at an all time high. Big banks are tightening standards and approving fewer loans than ever, leaving owners stuck with mountains of paperwork. But if you want bank rates without the bank delays and check out Cardiff Co Slash Emily for up to $500,000 in same day funding. Cardiff is the largest privately held small business lender in the US having funded over $12 billion since 2004. 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- [16:00]
Emily
See Terms all right. Excited to be joined once again by the great and powerful Michael Malice. He's of course the host of your welcome, the author of Not Sick of Winning, a history of President Trump's first 100 days and he's fresh off eulogizing the great Scott Adams over the weekend. Malice, thanks so much for being back.
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Michael Malice
Thank you so much for having me.
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Emily
I want to start on that note. Let's roll this clip from your eulogy, and I want to get you not to react to yourself, but to maybe tell us a little bit of color from the crowd and how it all went down. We can roll five here.
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Michael Malice
The sad thing about getting older and people dying, it's never the ones you want. I mean, I'm not saying I have a list, But I am saying I could make a list. One of the most frustrating things about working on the Internet and in media is how negative and nasty it has been and how much worse it's getting. And that's never gotten to Scott. You always had this air of happiness and being upbeat, and as a result of this, you kind of have to get hardened because if you let in the compliments, you have to let in the nasty stuff. And there's always going to be much more nasty stuff than nice stuff. But let me tell you all, when Scott Adams publicly said, oh, that I'm funny or people should look at my Twitter, like that level of validation is something that doesn't happen very often.
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Emily
One thing Scott Adams was wrong about. Michael Mount. No, I kidding. I'm kidding. Tell us what it was like to be there and how everybody was dealing, coping still with such a sudden and painful loss.
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Michael Malice
Well, I don't think it was sudden at all. I mean, he had his, you know, terminal diagnosis for over a year. He had said publicly he was going to wait after his stepdaughter Savannah was married, I think, in June, and then he was going to kind of pull the plug, so to speak, on himself. He spoke to. He publicly said he needs some experimental. Experimental, experimental medicine. RFK stepped in. Then Trump step in, and they got him that medication. So I kept him around for a few more months, but it was a. A long decline. I only. I didn't want to see his last few live streams because I've, to this day have never seen, for example, the Charlie Kirk video. I don't want to see it. I knew Charlie, so I didn't want to see images of Scott in decline. I had a friend over my house. We were watching him recently, and I regret having seen him like that because he's such a. I don't know, he's not boisterous. That's not the right word. But certainly fun and, you know, very positive. And he always has this kind of twinkle in his eye kind of person. So seeing someone like that in that state was something I'm glad. I regret having seen the thing that was, you know, Scott had this superb book which I'll recommend to everyone called Reframe youe Brain, which takes negative thoughts and reframes them into a positive way. One of his most famous ones is instead of saying the regular framework is, you know, I've had a string of bad luck. The reframe is the universe owes me. So it's your odds are lose, lose, lose, you're going to, I'm owed to win. And when you put it like that. The point he makes also is a lot of these reframes are irrational, but doesn't matter, they work. So I took a lot from his work. The energy there was extremely positive. We all went to his house afterward. I got, with the family's permission, two of his pens and one of his books. Wow. And it was upbeat. The reframe I said at the service was instead of thinking this as a memorial for Scott, what if we thought about as a party and Scott's running really late now. Is that true? No, but doesn't really matter because then you're thinking about the event in a very different context. So that was really the vibe. And it didn't feel like he was gone. There was something a little creepy, I guess, about going to his office, you know, where he filmed all his daily shows and, you know, kind of, I felt a little bit invasive. But all in all, it was. It was very positive experience. He specifically asked to have it be live streamed and have it be an event like this. And it's actually kind of funny because I was texting with Gutfeld, who was basically the emcee, and Gutfeld said, hey, would you like to speak at Scott's memorial? And I said it would be one of the great honors of my life. And Greg just wrote back, great. And I'm like, are you just asking me or are you inviting me? Like I. Like, until I showed up there, I still didn't know if I was really going to be able to speak. So that was kind of funny. But I just got back in a few hours ago because I got the last flight out of Austin because of the storm. I had to detour back home via la. But that's obviously a very small price to pay.
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Emily
You know, sudden was obviously the wrong word choice. But to the point you just made about his office, that's why I think it came to mind because you saw him one day and then another day he was gone and he was still to the end, so vital and obviously said he accepted Christianity towards the end of his life. Can you tell us anything about what the sort of mood, the faith mood was? Did that infuse how, how others were reacting? What was that like?
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Michael Malice
Well, I think. I think Posobic in his talk referenced it. Scott Adams did what's called Pascal's Wager. There was a philosopher called Pascal who, who said, look, what are the odds if I accept God or Christ specifically, and I'm wrong, there's no cost. But if I accept it and I'm right, it's all upside. But if I reject it, it's really big downside. So the odds are just, you know, and I don't, to be fair, and I'm sure you agree. I don't really think Jesus looks at it that way. You know, on the other hand, he's really forgiving, so maybe he does. I can't speak for him and none of us listening to this can. But Scott, I think the book of his that I got from his library, his copy was of his books, God's Debris, which I'm excited to read. I think Scott very much had a very profound view of humanity and human nature. And I think the thing where he would differ from religion. You didn't have this sense of solemnity with Scott. He didn't have this. There was always this kind of smile behind him, which I think is inappropriate in a religious context. Right. And I don't know that's a knock on religion, but it's just this. There's a little bit of a dissimilarity.
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Emily
There that's so interesting. Well, Michael, thank you. I thought you're illegit. Wait, actually, now I'm just realizing you said you didn't know if you were going to speak and yet you came with a Dilbert.
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Michael Malice
Oh, do you want to know what I was going to do? So I'll show you my phone. So I show that there is. Can you pause this for a second without me taking it off? Can you go back? Can you show how horrific it is? So here's what I was going to do. I had these screen caps ready. So I was going to go up to people speaking there. They wouldn't know who I was. Right. And I was going to show them like on my. Where's the camera? Wait, hold on a second. Sorry. He went away. No, no, no. I had a whole terror thing I was going to do. I can't get it. Anyway, I was going to show them on My phone, my screen frozen. Hi, my name is Dilbert. Can I tell you a secret? If you dress like this, you could get past security and then. Do you want to see my knife? So. Or I was going to go to. Oh, here, I got it. I was going to go to Dr. Drew. Let me get this open. Dang it. And be like, can you please take off your glasses? And then say, nice eyes. I'm going to take them. So. And have them just really be like, what the hell is going on? But I didn't get. They took our phones, but we had to lock our phones or turn them off at least so I could get Jess to do that.
- [23:48]
Emily
Another major loss for the world. You didn't get to. You didn't get to do that thing.
- [23:55]
Michael Malice
There's no mouth.
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Emily
It's extreme. I mean, did you buy it? Did you make it?
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Michael Malice
Here's one of the jokes I didn't make in my eulogy, which is I. When I. When Greg asked me air quotes to speak, I went online. That's from the 90s. I found it in ebay.
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Emily
Wow.
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Michael Malice
Paid for it on Saturday. And I said to the woman, can you please priority mail this Monday so I'm sure to get it by Friday. So by the next Saturday, it'll be Scott Adams Memorial. And she's pointed out that Monday was a federal holiday. Had to be Tuesday. And I'm like, there's a certain irony that Martin Luther King almost kept me from getting a mask for Scott Adams Memorial. I kept. I didn't use that line in the speech, but I had it queued up.
- [24:35]
Emily
That's an incredible story. I'm so glad that we got a little bit of the backstory before moving on to the breaking news of the day. Michael Myles, because it won't stop. Jacob Fry still tweeting this evening. Trump tweeting this evening as well. But earlier today the news was that Trump posted on True Social. It was like mid morning, if I'm remembering correctly. Quote, Governor Tim Walls called me with the request to work together with respect to Minnesota. He goes on to say, I told Governor Wallace that I would have Tom Homan call him. And that's what they are looking for. And all criminals that they have in their possession. This is F1. Can put this True Social up on the screen. It was a long one. And then Tim Walls, this will be F2, said, quote, I had a productive call with President Trump earlier today. I told him we need impartial investigations of the Minneapolis shootings involving federal agents and that we need to reduce the number of federal agents in Minnesota. The president agreed to look into reducing the number of federal agents in Minnesota and to talk to DHS about ensuring the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is able to conduct an independent investigation, as would ordinarily be the case then F the boys are all talking. Trump posted later. I just had a very good telephone conversation with Mayor Jacob Fry of Minneapolis. Lots of progress is being made. Tom Homan will be meeting with him tomorrow in order to continue the discussion. Thank you for your attention to this matter. That's the signature. And Jacob Fry posts on X right afterwards that he spoke to President Donald Trump. And Minneapolis will continue to cooperate with state and federal law enforcement on real criminal investigations. But we will not participate in unconstitutional arrests of our neighbors or endorse federal enforce federal immigration law. So notice he says right there he is still not going to, quote, enforce federal immigration law. He's meeting with Tom Homan on Tuesday. Michael, this is a crazy series of events that played out over Monday. People were wondering whether Trump would invoke the resurrection, the Insurrection Act. The Resurrection Act. George Floyd's coming back. Whether he would invoke the insurance.
- [26:34]
Michael Malice
You know, when these people think George Floyd is actually dead. Emily, wake up.
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Emily
Oh, shoot, I forgot. I've seen him. I've seen him. He's out there with Elvis somewhere. But George Floyd? No, not George Floyd. You've got. You're messing with my brain.
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Meg Stalter
No.
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Emily
So Insurrection act. Or he could take another tack, which would be something a little bit more cordial or cooperative. I don't know that you could necessarily describe this as that. I mean, one thing that. Speaking of framing, I want to just roll S9. We can do this as a voiceover. We're going to watch this on the screen. This was from Turning Point usa. Their front lines group had people on the ground in Minnesota on Sunday evening as the scene turned utterly chaotic. And I just watched this CBS Evening News. Michael, and not a mention of that in this entire conversation about what's happened in Minneapolis. What does seem to be surfacing in conservative media and legacy media is that there is a divide here. This is, this is outside of Hilton, a home, two suites where activists think law enforcement is staying. Law enforcement clearly outnumbered. At one point they ask where is the local police department? But there does seem to be a divide within the Trump administration. Today they followed the example of the president. We could probably get out of this now. Who seem to want to lower the temperature. Michael, is that your sense of what's going on?
- [28:06]
Michael Malice
I think we don't know what's going on. We don't know what that phone call looked like. The fact that they both left having identical messages is obviously. I mean, Waltz and President Trump is obviously not a coincidence. They probably agreed to how they're going to present this to their people. I think it's very interesting that Tim Waltz, from a Democratic point of view, was bending the knee because instead of him being like, I talked to President Trump and I gave him peace of my mind, he was speaking positively about President Trump at a time when Trump is being stigmatized correctly or incorrectly as this authoritarian tyrant. So I think this shows something was said. And I think usually what happens is when someone's like, look, you're gonna. It's gonna get worse for you unless you try to make it better. That's what I would think. I remember when Chuck Schumer voted for cloture to have the budget continue and not to have the government shut down. And people were turning on him when, you know, his own people, aoc, among others. And I forget who it was. I was talking to Democrat, and she's like, we knew the Republicans were perfectly happy to shut this down and that people would die and that they wouldn't care. So when you're. This was their perspective, I don't agree with it. So when you're dealing with nihilists, you kind of have to negotiate, or else we're the ones with blood in our hands. So I think this is the first time in a long time, remember 2020, the Democrats had no consequences and their agents for wrecking entire cities and all sorts of violence. This is the first time that got very, very, unfortunately, lives are being lost. And if you're on the phone with someone that you consider someone doesn't value human life is like, we're just going to keep doing this. At a certain point, you have to negotiate with that person or else it's going to get worse and worse. So I don't know who the good guy is here. I don't think necessarily either is, but I think this is the first time in a long time the Republicans have had any kind of backbone. I was Talking to Peter McCormick, he's a British podcaster, and he was talking about, oh, you think it's reached the point of violence in the UK and, and I go, the violence is already here. I go, how are you going to deport tens of thousands of people without using force? I mean, at certain point, if they want to stay, you want them to leave, Literally. What can you do? So I am concerned about where this is going to go. But I'm gladdened that there seems to be a mood to tone down the escalation because having, you know, the authorities and the populace at war, I mean, that kind of thing spirals out of control, as everyone watching this knows, in often in extremely horrific ways.
- [30:50]
Emily
Yeah, and let's talk a little bit about Greg bevino because there are competing reports about what's happening with Greg Bevino, who is like the commander at large of border patrol. We could put this element up on the screen. So Trisha McLaughlin, who's the assistant secretary, department of homeland security, also is spokeswoman over there. She said after these reports came out from nick sorter and actually others that vivino has, quote, not been relieved of his duties. As Caroline levitt stated from the white house podium, he is a key part of the president's team and a great american. But Michael, this all came after the clip. I'm going to roll now. S1 this is from Saturday. Bovino at a press conference reacting to the death of Alex preddy within. I mean, this must have been just within a couple of hours. Here's what he said.
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Greg Bevino
During this operation, an individual approached U. S. Border Patrol agents with a 9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun. The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but he violently resisted, fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers. A border patrol agent fired defensive shots. Medics on the scene immediately delivered medical aid to the subject, but the subject was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect also had two loaded magazines and no accessible id. This looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.
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Emily
So that raised the ire of a lot of 2A people, myself included, who said if you're, you know, in compliance with laws. And the ID thing, note they said accessible id, not just id So I don't know exactly what that means. But he had a CCW permit. Local officials have said he was in compliance with his carry obligations. Now tussling with law enforcement that I look at the video and I still can't tell exactly what's happening in the video from every single different angle that I look at, Michael. But it's clear they are saying what bavino was saying is what Caroline levitt avoided saying from behind the podium today, which is that because you have two magazines and you're carrying at a protest, you're somehow irresponsible just by virtue of carrying two magazines and being at a protest with your firearm, your licensed legal firearm. Is it possible that had something to do with the about turn. I mean, Cash Patel said something similar. Kristi Noem said something similar. Scott Besant, they all said had similar sentence sentiments. At one point on Sunday to what Saturday and Sunday to what Bovino just said, did that actually trigger some of the leaks to conservative media and maybe Bovino being down, demoted.
- [33:55]
Michael Malice
I'm going to say two, there's something very I, I've said, and I'm sure you've seen me say that the average human doesn't run things through a true false filter, but through an us them filter. So, and I had a Twitter poll, I said if a rapist puts out a fire and saves the burning kids, isn't that, is that a good thing? The answer is yes. Right. So you can hate the cops and I certainly do. But if someone is drawing on, I'm not saying he does, but in any situation, if someone is drawing on a copy, they have a right to defend themselves. At the same time, I want to point out the second amendment is for shooting the government. It's not for hunting. It's in case the government gets out of control.
- [34:28]
Emily
So beautifully put.
- [34:29]
Michael Malice
That's why you have guns. And it is obscene to have any agent of the government say, if you have two magazines on you, that means you intend to have a massacre. Here's the thing. If you, God forbid, want to massacre anyone, you're not going to close with them. You're going to stand away and start shooting at them from a safe distance. It's a complete lie. And to put any kind of suspicion on any American because they have more than, more than one magazine on their person when there's no other evidence that he was up to some kind of. This is authoritarianism. That, that kind of thinking at its worst. I don't agree and I'm sure you don't. Other people, if any authority feels the slightest bit scared, they, because this is again, they get to execute people because that's what happened to Ashley Babbitt. So I, I'm with you. There's two scenarios. If you are drawing or, and I heard someone yell gun, right. Or if you reasonably believe as a member of the authority figure that your life is in imminent danger, you have right to defend themselves. Yourself. If you are unarmed and not posing a lethal threat, then the, the authorities have a duty to disarm you and restrain you, but not to execute you. I don't think those two things are contradictory and I don't see the utility of me or you going frame by frame to see what this was because even if this person, this officer did committed execution, he should face the consequences of the law to the fullest. But that doesn't change the broader picture of does ICE have the right to engage in those raids? Now, you could say yes or you could say no, but this incident does not change the facts that matter, whether they have a right to do so or they should be doing so.
- [36:12]
Emily
Yeah, no, I think that's important because that's sort of. I was thinking earlier in the episode about micro versus macro and Bovino getting ahead of the administration and actually the administration itself saying that because there were two magazines, it looked like he was trying to do maximum damage and potentially commit a massacre. That, to me is. It's still a micro question. It's a micro trend that I'm sure is hell watching, but because the Associated Press reported several months ago that DHS is using automatic license plate readers in places like Gary freaking Indiana, not just even right by the border. So it's not as though we aren't all being becoming part of the surveillance state. That's what mass immigration has always been a pretext for. You see it in the uk, they were justifying digital ID by saying, hey, this is going to help us crack down on immigration. So an illegal migration. And so the. The times that feel like emergencies are when these rights are most, most vulnerable. And this was a bad response.
- [37:12]
Michael Malice
I. I want to give you power of attorney because I agree with every single word you just said. It was superbly put. No, no, no. And here's why. Because everyone watching this, or maybe I'm showing my age, my gray hair, a lot of people watching this. Remember the Patriot Act.
- [37:25]
Emily
Yeah.
- [37:25]
Michael Malice
And the point. The Patriot act is for terrorists. How can you be against it? What are you, a terrorist? And then five minutes later, it's used against patriots. So I'm delighted that conservatives, even people are like, as politically terminally online as you and I are understanding. Wait a minute, if this is going to be used ostensibly for illegal immigrants, five minutes later, it's going to be used against people who didn't have the COVID shot. People have the wrong thing on Facebook or Twitter, you know, people who are members of the NRA or some other moderate group. So I'm ecstatic, frankly, that there are conservatives who are like, wait a minute, I know how this plays out.
- [38:03]
Emily
Yeah. Well, actually, let's put a pin in immigration just to move briefly, because we have a lot more on this. To move briefly to the case of Ramesa Ozturk, because new documents were Released in that situation, they were unsealed by a court. So I'm going to get to that in just one second. We'll be back with Michael Malice in a minute. Well, maybe a minute, two minutes, who knows? I'm not gonna count. But first, you know, I gotta talk about Masa chips. I've been eating them all day. You don't have to overhaul your whole life in 2026. Just start with simple swaps like upgrading your snacks. Stop eating regular chips. Masa chips are made with just three real ingredients. Organic corn, sea salt, and 100 grass fed beef tallow. No seed oils, no fillers, no mystery chemicals. Just seriously good tasting food. Unlike regular chips, Masa leaves you feeling satisfied and energized, not bloated or sluggish. And because they're more filling, you won't find myself mindlessly snacking and feeling hungry afterward. Personally, my flavor, favorite flavor of masa, I like them all. I think I've landed on lime. But if you're ready to give Masa a try, go to masachips.com afterparty and use code AFTERPARTY for 25% off your first order. Or simply click the link in the video description or scan the QR code to claim this delicious offer. And if you don't feel like ordering online, Masa is now available nationwide at your local Sprouts supermarket. So stop by and pick up a a couple of bags before they're all gone.
- [39:44]
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- [40:26]
Emily
All right, we're back now with the one and only Michael Malice.
- [40:30]
Michael Malice
The sponsored my show. They sent me a case. They send you a case as well?
- [40:33]
Emily
Yeah, of course.
- [40:34]
Michael Malice
You know what I did with them?
- [40:35]
Emily
What?
- [40:36]
Michael Malice
Ate every single one. And I didn't share any of them. And I will tell you, they are really, really good. And tallow is much better for you than vegetable oil. So if you guys are on the fence, I'm Speaking from experience, I ate every bag.
- [40:49]
Emily
Okay. I'm so glad you came in with that, because it makes me feel better about what I've done. Now, I have used a couple of them at, like, parties and gifts as gifts as well, and, like, brought them over. But the other thing is they pack a lot of chips into those bags, so you. You have enough to share. All right, let's get to our Mesa ostrich. Because we were in this conversation about how our rights are most vulnerable when situations feel like emergencies. And by the way, that can be created by your political opponents, your ideological opponents. It doesn't negate the fact that your rights are still vulnerable and on the line. So Ramesa Ozturk documents were unsealed in her case and the cases of others. But basically what we saw here is that the government's justification for deporting Ramesa Ozturk, who was on an F1 visa and wrote an op ed suggesting that Tufts embrace bds. The BDS movement, which is divesting from anything that has anything to do with Israel, doesn't accomplish much, in my opinion. But this is Hermesa Ostrich writing an op ed. I think we have it. It's F10 here. It was March 26, 2024. The headline is just also innocuous. She's one of, like, five, four people on the byline. Try again. President Kumar renewing calls for Tufts to adopt March four TCU Senate resolutions. So that's a Tufts. And Rubio was asked about the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, by Senator Van Hollen. A true villain. Not someone I agree with a lot. But who presses Rubio on what happened when Rubio was in front of the Senate several months ago. This is S8. Let's roll it.
- [42:28]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
And if you tell me that you're coming to the United States to lead campus crusades to take over libraries and burn down. Try to burn down buildings and acts of violence. We're not going to give.
- [42:37]
Michael Malice
Is that what Ms. Ozstor did?
- [42:39]
Greg Bevino
Is that what she did, Mr. Secretary.
- [42:41]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
And every single one of these. Senator, the bottom line is, if you're coming here to stir up trouble on our campuses, we will deny you a visa. And if you have First Amendment applied to United States, we're going to do more. There are more coming. We're going to continue to revoke the visas of people who are here as guests and are disrupting our higher education facilities. People are paying money. These kids pay money to go to school, and they have to walk. Writing an op ed to the Torn.
- [43:05]
Michael Malice
Papers, disrupting the foreign policy.
- [43:07]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
I want to do more. I hope we can find more of these. The other day, the other day, some guys let a riot. I forgot what university it was. And I asked, please, can you find the arrest records of all the people that were arrested at that riot, at that campus? Because if any of them have a visa, we're going to revoke.
- [43:21]
Greg Bevino
I feel so much safer.
- [43:22]
Michael Malice
Lock up people like Ms. Ostrich. Ms. Secretary, we've had enough time on the subject now.
- [43:28]
Emily
Politically brilliant approach there from Rubio to just double down. I think he also clearly has the authority to do what he did. Ostrich's case is she's, she's my understanding that she's out. But all that is to say the idea that this op ed in the Tufts student newspaper and the Tufts Daily was endangering the foreign policy of the United States. We can put F11 up on the screen. This is from Jeff Jacoby, who said, Remeza Oztruck may not be pro Israel, but there's no shred of evidence that she ever posed a danger to American Jews. You know, it does endanger Jews. A government that tramples the rule of law and ruthlessly persecutes people for expressing an opinion. And Michael, the reason I wanted to jump to this after we were having our conversation about the Second Amendment and mass migration being a pretext to trample on people's rights is because if you don't think that when it holds up on a foreign national, it won't be applied to you, right. The standard that an op ed endangers the foreign policy of the United States, if that is held up, that she truly is able to, you have to justify getting her out of the country by saying she was undermining the foreign policy of the United States, then what about the person, the other person who wrote an op ed who's a citizen? Are they endangering the foreign policy of the United States with their bds, op eds and the Tufts Daily?
- [44:42]
Michael Malice
I'm in favor of deporting as many foreign students as possible because the universities are the source of all, pretty much all the evil in America, and foreign students are often a huge revenue stream for them. I think early on in the administration, Trump really clamped down on having these foreign students which create these huge endowments. As an immigrant, I'm also of the belief that if you're a guest, you'd best be on your best behavior because there's very few other countries where, if you're studying at the universities, you get to be a troublemaker, and they just pat you on the back and think everything's fine no matter what political issue it is. Sit down and shut up. You're here as a guest. You're here to learn. You're not here to lecture. So if she was pro Israel, anti Israel, pro lgbt, anti lgbt. If you're on this campus, your job is to be quiet. Now, it'd be interesting if you talk about your personal experience. That's something separate. But if you're going to start lecturing the university. No, I'm sorry. And obviously he's lying. She has no impact on the American foreign policy. That's absolutely ridiculous. But I don't think you even need a cover story to kind of get rid of these people. Especially because what often happens is that with Pol Pot, with Cambodia, they go to the west, they get radicalized and they get skilled. Then they go back to their home countries and make things a hell of a lot worse. So any ostensible reason to get them out as someone, I guess, was technically could be deported myself, this is, I don't think, the same thing as the Patriot Act.
- [46:09]
Emily
You should have started with that.
- [46:11]
Michael Malice
You should have said be deported.
- [46:14]
Emily
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I agree with basically everything you just said, except for that I think the pretext is still relevant because you can see it being invoked in the legal system if they're trying to mess with naturalized citizens, which I assume you are, or actual citizens. If you're saying that's a threat to the US Foreign policy.
- [46:30]
Michael Malice
No, that's ridiculous. That's this ridiculous cover story it makes. I don't think anyone believes it. I don't think Ruby believes it either.
- [46:37]
Emily
Yeah. And so the documents, these are just up on the screen. Billy. Billy Binion of Reason highlighted them. But basically the unsealed document showed that the government's justification was the op ed. That's what we learned.
- [46:46]
Michael Malice
There's no way she. They're lying. And that's fine.
- [46:52]
Emily
Okay. I mean, that's a fair source of disagreement. I think as an. As an immigrant, you are uniquely suited to be a representative of that voice right now. Michael Mouse.
- [47:02]
Michael Malice
I don't know about uniquely, but certainly perhaps. Yeah. And I think America, this conversation. America might have been better off if someone put a muzzle on me. I mean, if you think about it.
- [47:10]
Emily
Don'T give people ideas that would harm my entertainment diet. Speaking of allegations that the foreign policy of the United States is in danger because of what feels like an emergency set of circumstances, Tim Walls had a Legendary. A legendary quote at a press conference. I think this was a press conference yesterday where he genuinely compared US immigration policy to Nazi policies in regards to Anne Frank. I can't do it justice by describing the clip. Let's roll S2.
- [47:52]
Greg Bevino
We have got children in Minnesota hiding in their houses, afraid to go outside.
- [47:59]
Michael Malice
Many of us grew up reading that.
- [48:01]
Greg Bevino
Story of Anne Frank. Somebody's going to write that children's story about Minnesota. And there's one person who can end this now.
- [48:12]
Michael Malice
Hitler. He ended that story, didn't he? This is how the story ends. Hitler ended it.
- [48:20]
Emily
No spoilers.
- [48:20]
Michael Malice
No spoilers. Well, it's not in the book. You have to, you know, go online to learn what happened.
- [48:25]
Emily
You have to read the epilogue.
- [48:26]
Michael Malice
Yeah.
- [48:29]
Emily
A lot to. A lot to deal with.
- [48:30]
Michael Malice
It wasn't in Frank's house. He should read it over. That's not the story of Anne Frank. It wasn't her house.
- [48:35]
Emily
That's a good point.
- [48:36]
Michael Malice
She was in somebody else's house. And as someone who's Jewish, I went to yeshiva. The joke is, how do you know Anne Frank was Jewish? Because she lived in a penthouse and still managed to write a book complaining about her living accommodation.
- [48:48]
Emily
It's a good one. I shouldn't lie.
- [48:50]
Michael Malice
I think it's. I think it's really gross and I'm confident everyone will agree. When you're trying to invoke, like, horrific genocide for every single thing you don't like, at a certain point the genocide loses its valiance. And you just also sound like a buffoon. And these kids are. They're not going to be sent to the camps. They're going to be sent back to whatever. Can I curse?
- [49:16]
Emily
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Michael Malice
They're going to be sent back to whatever they came from, but it's not going to be. And if they got sent to Poland right now, it'll be perfectly lovely, you know, so it's, it's really kind of gross on, on his part. And it also. The consequence is you see things like, it encourages people to become antifa and fight these ICE agents in the street and people die as a result of this.
- [49:39]
Emily
Right.
- [49:39]
Michael Malice
And I'm sorry, these kids aren't being sent to be murdered. And. But if you're framing it that way, then, yeah, a lot of normal people be like, you know what? It's on me to fight these Gestapo and, and take the fight to them. It's. It's very responsible, I think.
- [49:54]
Emily
I mean, the confessed shooter of Charlie Kirk, remember? That's right. Some hate can't be. So the. I'm paraphrasing it, but some hate can't be argued with or can't be dealt with, you know, in, in arguments, whatever. It was something to that extent. So the Holocaust Museum responded to Tim Walls F8. They said Anne Frank was targeted and murdered solely because she was Jewish. Leaders making false equivalents to her experience for political purposes is never acceptable. Despite tensions in Minneapolis, exploiting the Holocaust is deeply offensive, especially as anti Semitism surges. And Michael the Wall's comment was just so, it was, it was so flagrant. And he just was feeling himself as he has been throughout the last couple of months, with the attention focused on his state. His sense of moral righteousness has him burying his career daily.
- [50:50]
Michael Malice
Well, I think you and I don't. You and I don't know what it's like to go within, like, 18 months from VP nominee to shoo in for reelection to not even running for reelection. So he collapsed and collapsed hard. He was thinking about running for President 2028. That's obviously not going to happen. So when you're someone who's this kind of political sociopath as Waltz is, in my opinion, and your power is taken away from you, you're gonna spiral. And, and I also think it's been a trope for over a decade that Trump is a Nazi. So they're not going to think it's insensitive or wrong in any way to use Nazi metaphors for it. And it's just like, were you this upset when Barack Obama was deporting these kids? No, course not. You know, or Biden. It's just, it's just nonsensical.
- [51:37]
Emily
Well, and it sounds cliche, but, like, were you upset about what happened to Lake and Riley being a micro example of a macro problem? Like, did you see that? That was part of a broader trend. Are you upset about the thousands of people who have spent years dealing with identity theft, Social Security theft from migrants? Is that a problem to you at all? Have you spent much time thinking about that? Do you have empathy for them? I want to roll this clip here from a friend of the show, Jennifer Welch. And she is also speaking of people who are feeling themselves S7 here on white evangelicals.
- [52:14]
Michael Malice
Friend of the show.
- [52:15]
J
Evangelical Christianity is cancer. These are the worst of our country. These are the worst people in our country because they use their religion in two ways. As a weapon and as a shield. They weaponize it whenever they want to and say, we're on the moral high ground. You're a lesbian. You deserve to die. You're A lesbian. The cops shouldn't have revived you. Oh, your parents are Mexicans and they brought you over here. Yeah, you should go to jail and eat worm food. And then when you call them out on it, oh, my God, they're after the Christians. How dare they? How dare they? We're so oppressed. White Christians are so oppressed in this country and they want it both ways. Because in the religion that duplicity is taught, you can be morally duplicitous. You, you, you thrive in cognitive dissonance. And so this is just a massive, massive problem. And it should come as no surprise to anyone that of this cult that I'm talking about, white evangelicals, I think over 80 went and voted, triple trumped.
- [53:25]
Michael Malice
Can we put leave those two on the screen for a second?
- [53:28]
Emily
Let's see if we can do it.
- [53:29]
Michael Malice
Do you know what the term uncanny valley means?
- [53:32]
Emily
Of course.
- [53:32]
Michael Malice
Well, people don't. So the uncanny valley is like if something's like, like a dog in a human form, like it's fine, but when it looks a little close to human, but not exactly on some visceral level, we get disturbed by it. And there's a lot of talk in like cuckoo circles online that the far left wants to create, they're not entirely wrong. Wants to create a future where everyone is genderless. And when you look at these two things, I, I, I don't know, it looks like they're trying to be men and women simultaneously. There's and have not have any features at all. I, I would want to point out about Jennifer Walsh. What? Walsh Welsh. What's her last name? Welch Welsh. I grew up on WWF wrestling. There's something called a heel. And a heel is when a good someone who's a bad guy in wrestling does a good job as a bad guy. When the crowd really gets riled up, like when he walks across that screen, everyone's booing. They're like, oh, I want, they want to put their fist through the tv. And that's what she's doing for the right. And she's doing a great job of it. Like her entire job is to get people on the right and right of center to whenever she comes up to, like, get really upset and she people, it's working for her. He worked for Jennifer Rubin for a long time.
- [54:41]
Emily
Two, two of our best Jennifers.
- [54:44]
Michael Malice
Yes.
- [54:45]
Emily
Now, I don't know how well this is going to work for her in the future.
- [54:50]
Michael Malice
It's working great for her.
- [54:53]
Emily
I mean, yeah, she was on with the New Yorker recently. She was on like David Remnick's podcast.
- [54:58]
Michael Malice
Yeah.
- [54:58]
Emily
And I just have to think a, like, tea party person getting the treatment. Even, like a shock jock type tea party person getting the treatment that David Remnick gave to Jennifer Welch. Like, it's impossible to imagine that happening.
- [55:11]
Michael Malice
But, Emily, you and I remember for years there are explicit articles. We need a Joe Rogan. The left. The left needs a Joe Rogan. Who's left? Joe Rogan. They try to do with Marc Maron. They try to do with a few other people, and it never seemed to stick. And this is. This is the latest in a long line of them artificially trying to create their own version of Joe Rogan. But there between Joe Rogan and her is Joe Rogan has guests of all political spectrum. Joe Rogan is three hours of sincere talk. I've done the show many times. It's very, very hard. And she's being performative. And there's no way that if she's talking to a friend of hers who is Christian, and I would bet money she has more than one, that she would tell them to their face, you're in a cult being evangelical Christian. That's performative language designed to get audience outrage, which is what fuels clicks on the Internet.
- [55:58]
Emily
I don't know. I wonder. She seems like an annoying friend, but she's treated as a red America whisperer, like a flyover country whisperer. She's treated as somebody with some authority on it, which I just think is laughable because she, like, is from Oklahoma, when in reality, all of this is a class problem. Right?
- [56:14]
Michael Malice
Like, that's right.
- [56:15]
Emily
The nice areas of Oklahoma are becoming indistinguishable from. Just like the nice areas of the Atlanta area or the Dallas area or the Charlotte area are becoming indistinguishable from one another, becoming indistinguishable from, you know what, Tenafly, suburban New York, suburban la. It's all melding into one culture based on class. And to treat her as a. She's some, like, great authority on white evangelical Christianity. And the cult is really incredible stuff. But I suppose you're right. Like, it's working. She knows exactly what.
- [56:47]
Michael Malice
She's treated like that because she validates New York Times readers and their preconceptions. So if I come out and I think white evangelicals are the worst people ever. Oh, triple trump, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. You don't have to wonder why Kamala Harris lost. Kamala Harris did everything right. Trump's the devil. And there's a lot of evil people in America who are stupid and wrong. Oh, I don't have to look inward. I could just pat myself on the back and be like, I was right. Just like I suspect this morning that's what role she provides for the shitlibs, especially Awfuls, the affluent white female liberals. Like, she's their kind of queen at the moment.
- [57:20]
Emily
Oh, that's a good point. Speaking of. Of which, let's go to. I have two more things to get your take on. Kanye west and Meg Stalter, who, by the way, is. Is arguably the best part of hacks, which I don't know if you watch Malice, but I love it. It's a great show. Jean. Smart, fantastic. She had some thoughts as a Christian on ice over the weekend. Let's roll. S3. S three. We got it, guys.
- [57:48]
Meg Stalter
If you are someone who identifies as a Christian but supports ICE or the President, I want you to remember that Jesus was executed for challenging the system. If you are a follower of Christ, I strongly urge you to follow what the Bible actually says. When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as native born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God. But you can't argue that God doesn't want us to love our neighbors. And our neighbors are being hunted and kidnapped and attacked daily. Our government is killing people and they are lying to us. The God that I worship is extremely angry about what is going on. I fully believe that. I believe he's extremely angry at our government. They are murdering people in front of us. We cannot stop talking about this. We have to abolish ice. I truly, truly believe that is exactly what Jesus would do.
- [58:50]
Emily
Okay. Malice. The theology. There is. If you're. If you're talking about the theology versus the sincerity of what she's saying or the legitimacy of what she's saying, I guess I would.
- [59:02]
Michael Malice
Emily, hit me.
- [59:04]
Emily
Hit me. Let's go. What you got?
- [59:05]
Michael Malice
You know perfectly well they use language to manipulate, not to communicate. This is not some biblical scholar who's comparing St. Augustine's to St. Thomas and coming to some conclusions between different schools of thought in the church. She's a shitlib saying what needs to be said. There's this meme which is.
- [59:23]
Emily
But do you think it's intentional? I don't think it's intentional. On her behalf.
- [59:27]
Michael Malice
Let me just read this meme. There's this meme that's over a decade old and it's A pajama boy. And you should let in more refugees because Jesus said to be compassionate in the Bible somewhere. No, I'm not a Christian. I have nothing but contempt for your backward religious beliefs. So yeah, this argument wouldn't work on me, me, but maybe if I use it on you, you'll do what I want. It's, it's so much of leftist discussion is just throwing what sticks to the wall. I don't think she's being insincere. I think she's clearly literally reading and like this works for her because it gets her to try to be in her head, be persuasive, but she has no understanding how Christians think. She's just telling you, well, I've decided that's what Christianity means and therefore you should come to my conclusion. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it's, I don't know a single Christian who is like, yeah, let's take immigrants and like beat them with lead pipes and throw them into the ocean. What is she talking about?
- [60:21]
Emily
Right, And Jennifer Welch said the same thing that it was about. Oh, so Renee Good was a lesbian. She deserved to die like a white evangelical Christian who said that she should supply an example. I'd love to take a look at it, but with Meg Stalter it's the same thing where I hear what like you, you can. To your point. I, I hear her saying that and I think she's sincere. But as again, an evangelical Christian who is constantly accused of exploiting religion for political purposes. That is exactly what is happening when you say you're concerned about Renee Good and that's right, migrants are being deported, but you don't do straight to camera crying videos after what happens to Lake and Riley, also a neighbor, when it happens to Kate Steinle or Molly Tibbets. And you're just doing it in, in the these cases, but not in those cases. The exploitation is going one way in that case. Yeah.
- [61:18]
Michael Malice
And also, how often are you going to church? How often are you volunteering? And you know, there's lots of things Christians do on a daily basis which are great, such as, okay, if I see someone in my neighborhood who's having a bad time of it through no fault of their own, let me give them a handout. The more Mormons are special. A friend of mine moved to Utah and they all came together, helped her move with no expectation of thanks or gratitude or anything like that, because they thought it was the right, you know, godly thing to do. This is just Manipulation. And, and it's, it's, it's. I. Thankfully, I think it's decreasingly effective because I think there's an understanding that this is not being done, pun intended, in good faith. It's just done. Okay, I'm going to pretend that I'm on your team and therefore you can listen to me by using certain buzzwords. But I think increasingly evangelical Christians and even non evangelical Christians, like people just have faith, are like, I know what you're doing. Like, like you're not on my side. You don't believe in any of this. You're just trying to get me to do what you want. And, and this is not the lens that you, the speaker, view politics through. So why are you pretending people should.
- [62:20]
Emily
Read Dominion by Tom Holland to get a sense of where care for the vulnerable and protection of the weak comes from historically, because it might help with context when you see these videos from Meg Stalter. Lastly, Michael Malice, I really was excited to get you on Kanye West. We're going long, but Kanye west released a full page Wall Street Journal advertisement today, which I did see a joke I think you would appreciate is that the funniest part of all of this is he thought Wall Street Journal would help him reach Jewish people. I wish I could credit the account who tweeted that, but it's funny, if.
- [62:51]
Michael Malice
He said New York Times, that's much more Jewish than the Wall Street Journal.
- [62:54]
Emily
That's probably true. But anyway, it was called to those I Hurt. And in it he talks about in really like moving detail his struggle with bipolar disorder. He says, in that fractured state, I gravitated toward the most destructive symbol I could find, the swastika. And even sold T shirts bearing it. One of the most difficult aspects of having bipolar type 1 are the disconnected moments, many of which I still cannot recall, that leads to poor judgment and reckless behavior that oftentimes feels like an outof body experience. He goes on to say, I'm not a Nazi or an anti Semite. I love Jewish people. I'm not asking for sympathy or for a free pass. Though I aspire to earn your forgiveness, I write today simply to ask for your patience and understanding as I find my way home. Comes about a week after the boys were out in Miami. The the Tates and clavicular and Nick Fuentes listening to the song that is now actually I think renamed to Hallelujah. No, but it is. Yeah, I think Kanye renamed it to Hallelujah and was released what, last May. The part of the lyrics here I still can't get my kids back with all the money and fame. I still don't get to see my children and see my Twitter, but they don't know how I'd be feeling. So I became an N. Yeah, I'm the villain. And this is the song that goes. And how Hitler, obviously, they were bumping it in the ride to the club, then they bumped it in the club. Obviously, if you do one, you have to do the other. You can't. You can't pause halfway through. You're committed at that point. But this kind of like he went and he expressed remorse to that rabbi. If you remember, in November, Michael, we can probably put this voiceover up on the screen. It's V1. This is Back in November. He was in New York. He apologized to a rabbi. I feel like his last line about asking for patience rather than forgiveness is such a condemnation of the way we treat celebrity culture in social media. In the social media era, where it's like everyone is constantly reacting to, judging, labeling, categorizing artists. And they're not all artists. But Kanye West, I think, is pretty clearly an artist. And they are, you know, if they're good ones, probably likely to be messed up people. And the way we've commoditized their Personas as separate from their art or just as compliments to their art, it's made that almost impossible, it seems. I mean, this guy's got bipolar. It was obvious.
- [65:21]
Michael Malice
Well, I. I mean, the reason why it's obvious is you're perfectly fair to condemn Israel or Jews or both. But Hitler wasn't a fan of black people, to put it mildly. So it's really kind of hard as someone of color to be raising that swastika and be taken at face value because it's, you know, it wasn't. It was primarily targeted Jews, but there are plenty of other races on that list in other contexts.
- [65:43]
Emily
But I think he was also trying to get attention. Like, that's why I read the lyric where he says, successful, I still can't get my kids back with all the money and fame. I still don't see my children and see my Twitter, but they don't see how I be feeling. So I be him. And yeah, I'm the villain. I think what he's saying there is I can't get the attention from my. My children, my wife, my ex wife. And so I'll probably be able to get it if I release a song that basically is Heil Hitler over and over.
- [66:09]
Michael Malice
I think. I think he was saying, the way I took that sentence was I wasn't able to have things that I should give him my stature or status. So I'm going to act out in the worst way I can. I think the thing that was interesting about that at the end, where he's like, and I think we all agree with this, if someone, in any context, not even Kanye, does feel remorse for something they've said or done, walk the walk. It's. It's one thing to be like, I'm sorry, it's nothing. Okay, what steps are going to take to undo the damage that you've done or that you believe that you've done? So I think it was interesting how it was written. It did not seem particularly lawyerly to me, which I was surprised that it did. See, it wasn't like trying to evade responsibility or do double talk. And listen, if he had, you know, bipolar, this is one of the worst things someone could have. It's no joke. What if what he's describing is accurate? You're, like, losing touch with reality for months at a time. You know, that's a very horrific thing. So, you know, like, I. I don't know him. I don't know, obviously what was going on through his mind, but I. I can very easily see anyone, you know, because the Holocaust and what the Nazis did, it wasn't just the Jews. I mean, they killed plenty of kids who were not Jewish. So I think anyone who's a parent who's waving that flag can take a step back, be like, okay, okay, maybe I've. You know, a song is one thing, but what. What am I aligning myself with?
- [67:31]
Emily
Any final thoughts, Michael? Malice? My final thought is, I think you should be friends with Kanye West. I feel like that would actually bear a lot of fruit.
- [67:39]
Michael Malice
Oh, no. I'm a white nationalist. I only have friends with white people.
- [67:42]
Emily
Oh, okay. So you're. You're sort of where. You're the Clayton Bigsby. You could only be friends if it was like a Clayton Bigsby.
- [67:50]
Michael Malice
No, but, you know, you know, the thing in all serious. Let me get serious for a second about Kanye. When you gave me what we're gonna talk about tonight, I remembered vividly, Sinead o', Connor, this Irish singer, toward the end of her life, and she was holed up in some hotels, either Maryland or New Jersey, just the middle of nowhere, and she was clearly spiraling, and she was talking about how none of her family members will talk to her. And she's like, I'm five one. What could I do? And it's like, that was so disingenuous to me because it's like, if I have, like, a dad who's like six two and 240, he slaps me in the face. You and I. And I bet you, you and most people listen to this, whether I have that smack in the mouth than that mom who's mentally ill saying really evil things, and you can never unhear those things, and it's coming out of your mom's face, and that stuff stays with you for decades. So when she said that go, I thought to myself, they're not talking to you, because when you get in this state, I'm sure you say things that are so evil and cruel, it will screw you up much more than a slap in the mouth. So in terms of Kanye, if you have a friend who's this erratic, it's. It's traumatic because you never know who's. It's just like having a parent who's an alcoholic. You never know who's coming in the house. And you can't reconcile those two people. Like, on the one hand, they're great and fun and warm, and the next day they're spewing, you know, hate or evil. And it's just like.
- [69:06]
Greg Bevino
It's.
- [69:06]
Michael Malice
It's a. It's. There's. There's organizations for this. People have to deal with, you know, kind of being the. The collateral damage of someone who's unhinged or. Or an addict. So it's. It's very unfortunate. And I do have as much compassion for him as. As I think I can. It's. It's. If. If what's happened to him is. Is correct, that's. That's an awful fake to look back and be like, what about. For, you know, to go on a bender for, like, months? Imagine that. And just. And then we've all been, like, most of us drunk, and you wake up, you're like, oh, crap. Why did I say or do that? Imagine that's four months of your life and it's in public. You know, we. We laugh, but it's. It's. It's dark.
- [69:42]
Emily
This Sinead o' Connor point is well taken because she's somebody who had a really hard time, like, commoditizing her art after she became such a public figure. And we now know, like, in. In a sense. I can now look at the last 10 years of Kanye west and understand him better because he's having this evolution in front of all of us and the breakdown in front of us. And it seems. It all seems sincere. But on the other hand, it just sucks that along the way people had to be categorized X, Y or Z because they also have like sponsorship deals and they need to get access to Live Nation or whatever else. It all is just, it's such, yeah, it's, it's.
- [70:21]
Michael Malice
I, I don't, I don't think it's possible to be an artist at his level and not be at least driven at least a little bit mentally ill. Just like I don't think any watching this, like if you were the president, you're going to go crazy like to know how much responsibility is on your shoulders and that every day, no matter what you do, even if you have the best of intentions, people are going to be out there lying and attacking you. I, I don't know how you do that and stay sane.
- [70:44]
Emily
Michael Malice is the host of you're wrong. He's also the author of not sick of winning. So much fun to have you here, man. Thank you so much for stopping by.
- [70:52]
Michael Malice
Always a pleasure guys. Talk soon.
- [70:54]
Emily
Thanks, Michael. Really, really fun to have Michael here. So glad every time he's able to make it and stay up late with us because so I just keep going later and later. Can't help myself. A little bit more on the other side of this break. But first, if you want to fix your gut, make your hair healthier and stronger and add some glow to your skin in 2026, you gotta add Colostrum to your daily routine. Today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine that's of course cow colostrum available in the U.S. cowboy colostrum is 100% made in America from 100% American grass fed cows. Don't worry, Cowboy Colostrum only collects the surplus colostrum after baby calves have had their fill and to my understanding is not taken from cowboys themselves from the cows. Cowboy is easy to drink and is made with delicious natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. So you just have to add a scoop of their chocolate, Madagascar vanilla matcha or strawberry in your coffee or smoothie and then you can feel great the entire day. I like the strawberry in a glass of milk. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboy colostrum.com afterparty and use code AFTERPARTY at checkout. That's 25% off when you use the code AFTERPARTY@cowboycolostrum.com Afterparty Mama Quiero Life on.
- [72:11]
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- [73:08]
Emily
Big Changes Coming to American Media Former Washington Post writer Paul Farhee tweeted something rather interesting today as rumors have swirled about major cuts coming to Jeff Bez Bezos's Washington Post. This is F15, he said. Newsroom folks are now saying that impending cuts will be very large, up to 300 people and will fall most heavily on sports and foreign staff. But cuts will include non newsroom so business personnel to pain all around. Brian Stelter Posted. This is F16 a top post reporter tells me, quote, there's now a strong sense across the newsroom, quote, that neither Jeff Bezos nor Will Lewis are serious good faith stewards of the Washington Post. This reminds me so much, I have to say, of a part of a report from CBS from the inside of cbs. I think it was in Variety. Yeah, here I finally found it. This was from last week. Variety posted on x 10 people familiar with the workings of CBS News say the Paramount Skydance unit is veering toward dysfunction with a management team led by Barry Weiss that doesn't value the standards held by veteran journalists. I had to stop there. My response was that I would love to hear more about these, quote, standards held by veteran journalists because the veteran journalists standards are exactly why they're looking around their newsrooms right now and seeing a Bezos reconquista of his own paper that he let and encourage to turn into democracy dies in darkness mode over the last 10 years. And then Barry Weiss being in your newsroom installing Tony Decouple and bringing people along with her. You are in this situation precisely because of the poor standards you veteran denizens of the newsroom had for years. You have nobody but yourself to blame and you have no credibility now whining to places like Variety and to reporters CNN about the conditions in your newsroom about the new people coming in and then for the media to keep recycling these points over and over again without any broader context. I mean, this whole episode has been about framing. Gallup has tracked this every single year. Trust in mass media. I feel like I repeat this every week since the mid-70s. Record low tide for a record low as of last October. As of last October. So we are at the bottom of where we have ever been in the post war period. Well, at least I should say since the. Since Gallup has been looking at these numbers. But everyone sort of senses that a broader business question. We all know it, we talk about it here all of the time. But the idea that the people who are whining to the press are acting in good faith, I mean just to take that stelter quote from a source again that neither Jeff Bezos nor Will Lewis are serious good faith stewards of the Washington Post. I will say in, in my conversations with Will Lewis, I have found him to be a serious good faith steward of the Washington Post. He's definitely serious about a long term project to build the Post into something that fits the new media environment. But I can understand how all of the people who've self deported from the Post and the allies that remain at the Post Post is they haven't found other jobs or they're just committed to staying at the institution, whatever it is, would see him as somebody who is not serious or good faith. But they have no credibility to judge someone else's seriousness or good faith because they are people who were unserious and acting in bad faith for so long. They either knew that or they were too blind to see it. They were too blinded by their own biases to see it. So I don't take seriously any of these leaks about cuts or reorganizations being disasters for the individual institutions. In a weird way, I was going to say this reminds me of a piece that popped in the Hollywood Reporter just in the last couple of days. This was on Friday and it was talking about how Jimmy Fallon. It was kind of a puff piece on how Jimmy Fallon is making the most of the TikTok era. And Jimmy Fallon has found a pretty sizable digital audience, if you believe this. Their numbers are definitely impressive for Fallon. So that much is clear. But what you're trying to do, I mean I just watched CBS Evening News Tonight. What you're trying to do if you're these old institutions is like really use every part of the news buffalo, right? So like you want, if you are nightly news, what's airing to find an audience on linear TV and to make money on linear. And you're trying to make it make money on TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram Reels and those different places. And so you need Content that is simultaneously still working linear for the linear audience, which is very different than the digital audience. If you are still sitting down to watch the evening news on linear television, you are probably somebody that pines for the Walter Cronkite era. Even if you didn't think Cronkite himself was perfect or Brian Williams was perfect, we all know Brian Williams wasn't perfect. But even if you're somebody who pines for that era, what you want is the trustworthiness of mass media, where they want to get advertisers that are chasing the biggest slice of the public that is humanly possible. And that was true of Johnny Carson, it was true of Walter Cronkite, and it's why there was plenty of political content, but it wasn't partisan. And that is playing out at the Washington Post and cbs, which are trying to find these audiences, and Jimmy Fallon, apparently, which are trying to find these audiences while doing both at the same time. Right. So while being this legacy media institution, if you're CBS or the Washington Post or even the Tonight show, while also having clips and articles that can go viral and make money in digital spaces through ads and subscriptions and the like. And the New York Times has added like a cooking vertical and lifestyle verticals. And that's been working great for the Times. But what the Post is trying to do is build an institution that feels like a mass media institution but is a bit more nimble because you're finding people in their silos and you're giving them Washington Post content in their silos. But you still, it's a, I, I, I've said this before, and you can go watch my video on this from, you know, from months ago. I've said this before. I don't really know that that's going to work. It's a better idea than doing what some of the other papers are doing. The Atlantic with all of the, like, Laureen Powell jobs, money and whatever else. But it's totally different. And same thing with cbs. I just don't know that you can pull it off, that it can work, because I think they're just two separate audiences. Some of it depends on how fast all this happens. But I would say when you're seeing these leaks about how everything is a mess, of course it's going to be a mess. Of course it's going to be a mess. The people in that populate, these newsrooms are either incompetent or bad faith. And neither of those is good if you want to reform a, an institution. So at cvs for example, it's not that I have some type of like, implicit trust for the people who are coming in. I've been critical, critical of like the new regime there plenty of times. But it's not going to make me believe every single thing that I hear about what's going on beside behind the scenes. Because literally we have, quote, veteran veterans of the newsroom talking about the standards, their, their standards. I'm not interested in their standards. To the extent I'm interested in their standards is about how terrible their standards are. So it's a, a totally mixed environment at these places right now. It is. If you're going to reform any of these institutions, it's going to be a mess. It's kind of like what Malice said about immigration policy. If you want to deport tens of thousands of people who don't want to leave, unless you do pathway to citizenship or amnesty, it's probably going to be a mess as well. And so the maybe the theme of today's episode was me rambling about micro versus macro. Quickly, I did jump into the chat. Another reason to watch Watch Live. But I did jump into the chat and people were saying about the Meg Stalter clip on immigration and Jesus. And people were saying Jesus wouldn't support ice. And all I was saying when I was talking to Malice is that if your standard is just, if you just care and if you just express concern and invoke your faith when the victims fit your political narrative, which is something that I try not to do and maybe I make a mistake sometimes, would not put it past myself to make a mistake from time to time. But that's where I get very suspicious about the potential cynicism motivating you to do that or the shallowness of your theology and your worldview. And so that's where, you know, for me, I was criticized when I came back from a trip to the border in 2021, talking about how heart wrenching the stories that of these migrants were, even though I was saying simultaneously that the system was failing. Just in earlier in the show today I was talking about how heart wrenching their stories were at the time, before we even got to the Meg Stalzer conversation. So it is frustrating when you see people enter a conversation and invoke their faith and then you have this obviously salient problem happening alongside what you're identifying as a problem, but very little interest in talking about that. So, all right. I love hacks though, and I think Meg Stalzer is really funny. Maybe I'll end there for tonight. Please subscribe. Subscribe. It helps us so much. Subscribe on YouTube. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast. I'll be back here Wednesday live, 10pm I'm trying to watch the the chats as they happen. So again, another reason to jump on the live stream. Hope everyone is staying safe and staying warm. We'll see you back here before afterparty.
- [83:58]
Various Advertisers
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- [83:59]
Emily
Welcome.
- [84:13]
Spanish Advertiser
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