Trump Talks Third Term, Disaffected Young Men, and KJP's Terrible Media Tour, with Shelby Talcott and Andrew Klavan

Summary

Podcast Summary: After Party with Emily Jashinsky

Episode: Trump Talks Third Term, Disaffected Young Men, and KJP's Terrible Media Tour

Host: Emily Jashinsky
Guests: Shelby Talcott (Semaphore White House Correspondent), Andrew Klavan (Author, Podcaster)
Date: October 28, 2025

---

Overview

This episode examines current political and cultural flashpoints: persistent rumors about Donald Trump trying for a third term, the administration's controversial military actions off Venezuela, a revealing Democratic Party survey on out-of-touch messaging, the radicalization of young men on the right, and critiques of high-profile Democrats like Karine Jean-Pierre and Kamala Harris for their troubled public appearances. The conversation moves briskly from policy analysis to larger cultural critiques, with a humorous, sometimes biting tone.

---

Table of Contents

1. Trump Third Term Rumors
2. Venezuelan Military Strikes & Legal Justifications
3. The Young Right, Disaffection, and Reactionaries
4. Democrats’ Messaging Crisis
5. Karine Jean-Pierre’s Media Meltdown
6. Kamala Harris on the Defensive
7. Corporate Wokeness & Vibe Shifts
8. Behind the Scenes: Megyn Kelly Live Tour
9. Notable Quotes

---

1. Trump Third Term Rumors

Key Segments:

• 03:49 Shelby joins
• 04:09–06:26 Trump & Steve Bannon audio clips, Shelby analysis

Discussion:

• Steve Bannon publicly said "Trump is going to get a third term" (04:09), stoking speculation.
• Trump himself dismissed the idea: "[A third term]...it's too cute. I would rule that out because it's too cute. It's not, it wouldn't be." (04:48)
• Shelby Talcott sees this as Trump trolling, meant to "rile up the media and Democrats" rather than signal real intent:

  "I think that he says these things in part to sort of rile up the media and Democrats." (05:31)

• People in Trump's orbit mostly laugh off the idea, even if Bannon genuinely believes it.

Media Hysteria:

• The View’s hosts, notably Ana Navarro and Whoopi Goldberg, portray Trump as authoritarian, comparing him to leaders like Putin and Maduro (06:44–08:10).
• Shelby concurs that Trump's rapid renovations (like the new ballroom) are more about legacy than signaling intentions to stay beyond two terms.

---

2. Venezuelan Military Strikes & Legal Justifications

Key Segments:

• 11:33–21:14 Deep dive into strikes' legality and internal White House debate

Discussion:

• Ongoing U.S. military actions against alleged Venezuelan "narco-terrorists" have killed dozens (11:33).
• Legal justification centers on a classified Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) memo giving officials "golden shield" immunity—making prosecution extremely difficult:

  "This classified, unpublished memo is crucial inside the government because it confers a, quote, golden shield... of immunity from criminal prosecution." (13:08)

• Shelby: This OLC opinion gives the administration "a lot of cover in their minds" and has become the keystone for further Defense Department justifications (14:11).
• Pushback from Congress (Rand Paul, some Democrats) is muted—politically difficult to oppose anti-cartel messaging.
• Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller identified as key drivers behind the strikes, with regime change as a possible, if unstated, endgame (18:43–20:05).

---

3. The Young Right, Disaffection, and Reactionaries

Key Segments:

• 30:25–45:52 Culture, media, Tucker Carlson/Nick Fuentes, crises of masculinity

Discussion:

• Emily cues a new Atlantic piece and recent Tucker Carlson interview with Nick Fuentes, discussing alienation among young men on the right.
• Klavan is highly critical of Tucker giving a platform to figures like Fuentes:

  "He just sits there credulously... and sort of believes every tale of oppression and exclusion that they tell. But Nick... is called anti-Semitic because he doesn't like Jews.” (32:41)

• Klavan argues that this bitterness is misdirected:

  "Talking about hating the Jews as if they were this powerful people... gives you a sense of strength. Emily, it is always a sign of the devil at work when somebody offers you strength that makes you weak." (35:52)

• He draws a distinction between genuine manhood (self-mastery, independence) and the reactive, hateful posture promoted by online influencers.
• Emily raises the difficulty of outreach—how to critique these reactionaries without further alienating angry young men.
• Klavan’s advice:

  "If your philosophy is a reaction to the way you've been treated, who's in charge of you? The people that you're reacting to. They're the ones that are in charge of you." (43:20)

---

4. Democrats’ Messaging Crisis

Key Segments:

• 47:42–56:07 Semaphore survey, Gavin Newsom, disconnect with working/middle America

Discussion:

• Semaphore polling reveals 70% of voters see the Democratic Party as "out of touch," prioritizing climate and LGBTQ+ issues over crime and border security (47:42).
• Dramatic increases in “woke” language in party documents, with references to men and fathers dropping sharply.
• Gavin Newsom, appearing on the podcast "All the Smoke," attributes anti-woke rhetoric to anti-black racism and claims urgency in calling out the right.
• Klavan scoffs at Newsom’s posturing:

  “If a guy is a working man of any stripe... what have the Democrats ever done for those people? I mean, that's most people. What have the Democrats ever done? ...They do jack crap for them and they don't care about them.” (49:57)

• Warns that left-leaning social movements inevitably become hostile to mainstream lives/preferences.

---

5. Karine Jean-Pierre’s Media Meltdown

Key Segments:

• 59:59–60:10 KJP’s interviews, defensiveness
• 60:10+ Transcript analysis/critique

Discussion:

• Karine Jean-Pierre, on book tour, falters badly in media interviews when forced to defend loyalty to Biden.
• Emily notes KJP's fallback into identity ("I woke up every day as a black woman who is queer...") (60:10)—an effective shield just a few years ago, but now increasingly transparent.
• KJP is “getting demolished” in the press for circular evasions and lack of substance.

---

6. Kamala Harris on the Defensive

Key Segments:

• 61:14–62:50 BBC interview, awkward defense of Biden

Discussion:

• Kamala Harris awkwardly tries to draw a distinction between Biden’s capacity to “run” for president and to “serve” as president—leading to confused, rocky answers.
• Emily: "She can't even lie well. Can't even lie well." (62:40)

---

7. Corporate Wokeness & Vibe Shifts

Key Segments:

• 63:51+ American Eagle CMO interview

Discussion:

• After social media backlash over American Eagle’s use of Sydney Sweeney, the company’s CMO recounts that choosing to "say nothing" was the wisest response (63:51):

  "The most powerful thing we could have done was say nothing. Or that we did was say nothing."

• Emily connects this to the broader point: Most “discourse” is irrelevant to regular customers and employees. Ignoring performative outrage is often optimal strategy.

---

8. Behind the Scenes: Megyn Kelly Live Tour

Key Segments:

• 66:30+ Personal stories

Highlights:

• Emily shares stories from the Megyn Kelly live tour, including green room antics, fan interactions, and professional highlights.
• Reflections on the importance of audience community and the privilege of sharing a stage with seasoned journalists.

---

9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump Third Term Hysteria:

  • "I think he says these things in part to sort of rile up the media and Democrats." — Shelby Talcott (05:31)
  • "He wants to be a president that leaves a mark—not just physically in the White House, but also with everything he's doing." — Shelby Talcott (08:28)

• On Disaffected Young Men:

  • "Talking about hating the Jews...gives you a sense of strength. Emily, it is always a sign of the devil at work when somebody offers you strength that makes you weak." — Andrew Klavan (35:52)
  • "If your philosophy is a reaction to the way you've been treated, who's in charge of you? The people that you're reacting to. They're the ones in charge of you." — Andrew Klavan (43:20)

• On Democratic Messaging:

  • "What have the Democrats ever done for those people? …They do jack crap for them and they don't care about them." — Andrew Klavan (49:57)
  • "Free is a word like dragon. It doesn't refer to anything in the real world." — Andrew Klavan (53:10)

• On Corporate Virtue Signaling:

  • "The most powerful thing that we could have done was say nothing." — American Eagle CMO (as recounted by Emily) (63:51)

• On Karine Jean-Pierre’s Evasions:

  • "She throws up the shield that worked very well from 2020 to 2024, which is retreating to identity: I am a black queer woman." — Emily (60:10)

---

Tone & Language

The episode balances sharp critique, cultural humor, opinionated asides, and researched analysis. Both Emily and Andrew Klavan use a conversational, occasionally sardonic tone—pulling no punches in critiquing both right- and left-wing figures. Shelby Talcott maintains journalistic neutrality, providing inside reporting.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump & 3rd Term Speculation: 03:49–11:33
• Venezuela Strikes Analysis: 11:33–21:14
• Young Right & Fuentes/Carlson: 30:25–45:52
• Democrats, Newsom & Surveys: 47:42–56:07
• KJP & Kamala Harris Critique: 59:59–62:50
• Corporate Wokeness: 63:51+
• Megyn Kelly Live Tour: 66:30+

---

For listeners:
This episode dives deep into contemporary politics, culture wars, and media narratives—offering both insider reporting and pointed analysis, with plenty of humor and skepticism about both political parties.

Transcript

[Andrew Clavin]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like?

[Emily]

Son, can we talk about your drinking?

[Andrew Clavin]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should. Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. [e-mail] An OHA initiative.

[Emily]

Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy. Welcome to After Party. Happy Monday, everyone. I'm back from San Antonio and if you stick around for the whole show, going to get some behind the scenes details, some behind the scenes pictures. It's going to be a blast. So make sure you stick around for that. It was a blast being on the Megan Kelly tour. I think there's tickets still available [e-mail] for the next leg. I'm so excited. Even the videos that are coming out from all of the stops are a blast to watch. They've been super fascinating. The live format is totally different. Interacting with the crowd. I mean, all of you who came out, it was incredible just to to be in person to meet Glenn in person for the first time, talk to him a bunch of times and to be there when Glenn and Meghan met in person for the first time. It was awesome. So stick around for the end of the show to get some behind the scenes details on our tour stop in San Antonio. The video is now up on the Megyn Kelly Channel. We're joined tonight by Shelby Talcott and Andrew Clavin. Going to bring Shelby in in just one moment. We're going to talk about Donald Trump actually addressing the chatter about whether he's planning to run for a third term. Let's legal justifications that might be flying around the executive branch overstrikes off the coast of Venezuela. Incredible damning new survey that leading Democrats put together about their party's problems. New comments from Gavin Newsom, Karine Jean Pierre and Kamala Harris. A beautiful trio. They are just proving the point of that giant survey I just mentioned. And actually before we went to air, Tucker Carlson dropped a long conversation with Nick Fuentes. So I am going to get Andrew's reaction to one part of it as it relates to men and colleges because there was an Atlantic article on what's happening in college campuses that I think Andrew will have some great insights into and some new updates. Believe it or not, this is going to feel like A summer throwback. It's October, people. We're still talking about Sydney Sweeney and American Eagle. Actually, I have a pretty interesting clip from the CEO of of American Eagle talking about reflecting on what happened and why the company did not cave to all of the different pressures. What was happening actually in their own C suite level. Some great stuff to come. So before I dive into all of that, let me just bring in. Well, first, subscribe. I'm so bad at plugging the show, but you need to subscribe. If you haven't subscribed, I forget because there's so many generous people with their subscriptions. But make to subscribe on the podcast format. Subscribe on YouTube if you haven't yet. It helps us a lot. We appreciate it. And man, do we have some good guests coming up in the near future. So subscribe. And speaking of our great guests, let's go ahead and bring in Shelby Talcott, who is the Semaphore White House correspondent and one of our favorites here at After Party. Shelby Talcott, welcome back.

[Shelby Talcott]

Thanks for having me.

[Emily]

I want to start with Donald Trump talking about actually addressing rumors that he might run for a third term. And this most recent wave of speculation kicked off after Steve Bannon sat for an interview and said this. Let's roll. S1.

[Andrew Clavin]

Well, he's going to get a third term. So Trump 28. Trump is going to be President 28. And people just ought to get accommodated with that.

[Emily]

So what about the 22nd Amendment?

[Andrew Clavin]

There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan and President Trump will be the president in 28. We had longer odds in 16 and longer odds in 24 than we got in 28. And President Trump will be the president United States. And the country needs him to be president United States. We have to finish what we started.

[Emily]

All right. So that was a conversation with the Economist. Let's roll now. S2 Donald Trump addressing this wave of speculation himself.

[Andrew Clavin]

No, you'd be allowed to do that. But I wouldn't do that. I think it's too cute. Yeah, I would rule that out because it's too cute. I think the people like that. It's too cute. It's not. It wouldn't be.

[Emily]

Right, Shelby, there he was addressing the possibility that some have raised JD Vance might run at the top of the ticket with Donald Trump in the vice presidential slot. And then Trump jumps in. So with Bannon coming out in front saying that in the Economist, Donald Trump addressing the speculation directly saying I. I would love to serve a third term, but we'll have to see, essentially, and then weighing in on his potential successors, what the heck is going on. It is your job to know this, Shelby, tell us.

[Shelby Talcott]

I mean, I think that this is all sort of trolling from Donald Trump. I mean, if he ran for a third term, forget about the sort of legal issues that it would raise, but he would be, what, 82 years old at that point. I think that he says these things in part to sort of rile up the media and Democrats. But everybody I talk to inside of his orbit when I've asked about this, because this has been a long standing thing throughout this entire administration. Right throughout this past year, he's been asked about it multiple times. There's been the idea raised. First of all, I do think Steve Bannon genuinely thinks that Donald Trump is going to run for a third term. I personally disagree with him. Maybe he knows something that I don't. But whenever I bring it up to people in Trump's orbit, they kind of just like, laugh about it. And I really think it's just something that they like to use to rile up the media and Democrats. I just. I can't see it happening.

[Emily]

Shelby, of course, everyone is reacting with calm and sobriety, especially over on the View. Let's roll this clip from the view of them reacting to all of this, because I think it kind of makes your point. Listen, there's certain people in Trump's orbit.

[Shelby Talcott]

Who, when they tell you what they're.

[Emily]

Gonna do, I really listen. And I would put Steve Bannon at.

[Shelby Talcott]

The top of this list.

[Emily]

Alyssa would have come to the conclusion that he is most definitely going to try to remain in power, because remember that East Wing, it's gonna take a long time to build that he is hooking up the White House because he doesn't plan on leaving it. I don't think he told y' all that years ago that he had no pain. He was not going anywhere. He said it. He said, I want to be president for life. Yeah, I heard him say it.

[Shelby Talcott]

I watched his lips move.

[Emily]

And I thought, he means this. Yeah. This is a guy who's got authoritarian envy. He goes around to these countries and he loves the, you know, he wants the parades, he wants the arches, he wants the ballrooms. He wants to be an emperor. He wants to be an authoritarian paying no attention to the Constitution. That's the way Ortega does it. That's the way Chavez did it. That's the way Maduro does it. That's the way Putin does it, they've been around forever. Okay, so Chavez, Maduro and Putin in that claim from Ana Navarro. But, Shelby, actually, I wanted to see if you might address something that Whoopi Goldberg said, actually, with Sunny Host and Whoopi Goldberg about the ballroom. My interpretation about the ballroom, actually, is that he's rushing. He didn't go through the approval processes because he wants to put his mark on the building itself, the structure, before he leaves the White House. Is that fair? Are you hearing anything similar to that?

[Shelby Talcott]

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And I've had Trump officials and people close to him tell me as much. I mean, this isn't. The ballroom isn't also the first thing that he's done to make his mark. Right. He started with the Rose Garden. He paved it over. Now, when we go back, he did.

[Emily]

That sort of fast.

[Shelby Talcott]

He did that very quickly.

[Emily]

That was like, you would know that that was within.

[Shelby Talcott]

I don't know, once the construction started, it was done in, like a month. It was done very quickly. And so I think that. I think that you're right. This is sort of him expanding on. He wants to be a president that leaves. It leaves a mark. And not just physically in the White House, but also with everything he's doing.

[Emily]

Right.

[Shelby Talcott]

He's made it very clear that he wants to get the Nobel Peace Prize. He's doing things the intention and the speed of somebody who is not thinking that he's gonna be around for an additional term. Right. You think about the first several months of this Trump administration, how fast everything moved. That's because. And I've had Trump administration officials tell us this, they're thinking of this term, his last term, as two years, not four years, because who knows what happens after the midterms? Who knows if they have the House, who knows if they have the Senate, it might become much more difficult for him to get things done. And so I. I think all of that sort of supports the idea that when Donald Trump sort of hems and haws about whether or not he's going to run for a third term, he likes causing the drama and the speculation.

[Emily]

Yeah. Which, by the way, I know you're reporting, you're not going to comment on it. I will say, for the record, I personally hate the flirtation with the third term, but, you know, he does. This is actually a good segue to the next question, Shelby, is Bannon going out in front of Trump making this argument? He is a, you know, basically sees himself as a chess player in media and in Politics and where media and politics overlap. What is he doing? What do you think his strategy is in making this argument? Is he coordinating with Donald Trump? What's going on behind the scenes?

[Shelby Talcott]

You know, listen, I say all of this with the acknowledgement that maybe I'm gonna be wrong. And if that's the case, somebody can clip this and in four years be like, you guys were wrong. Yeah, you clip it and say, I was wrong. But I think also Steve Bannon sometimes tries to will things into existence. Right. And because he is such a chess player, he knows how to play the game. He knows how to. How to raise the drama, how to raise the stakes, how to bring the possibility that people maybe weren't even thinking about to the forefront and have it become a conversation. In any other circumstance, it wouldn't be a conversation.

[Andrew Clavin]

And.

[Shelby Talcott]

And again, maybe he knows something that none of us know. But I just think in all of my conversations with Trump officials and in everything that I've seen with this administration, this is more of a, you know, a Donald Trump likes the drama that it causes. He also never likes to sort of rule things out, regardless of how, you know, out of pocket it may be. You always hear him sort of hem and ha with almost every answer. Right. Like, he rarely shoots things down officially. And so I see it kind of as Bannon trying to place those chess pieces and will it into existence.

[Emily]

Okay. Now, speaking of Venezuelan dictators, the Trump administration is clearly in the middle of what could culminate in a regime change operation, but for now, is certainly provocations outside off the coast of Venezuela. Also, CIA operations within Venezuela have been greenlit. So, Shelby, there's so much debate right now happening about whether this is legal. Senator Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, others have expressed their concerns. Democrats have certainly expressed their concerns as we approach about, I think, 40 deaths over the last seven or eight weeks, according to the government on these strikes. They've provided very little information to substantiate their claims. That. And that's by their own, I don't want to say admission, but that's kind of by their own logic, they're saying, trust us, we have intel. These are narco terrorists. We are taking them out. And so, on the other hand, presidential war powers are extremely, extremely broad. And as much as people like a Rand Paul may not like what's happening, I did want to raise a fascinating substack piece from the executive functions substack, and this is quite an interesting argument, and I suspected something like this would surface sooner rather than later. So executive functions writes many commenters have argued that the Trump administration's Venezuelan boat strikes are unlawful. Marty Lederman, for example, maintains that the strike lacks any basis in Article 2 and violates the assassination ban as well as the criminal murder prohibitions in the U.S. code, Uniform Code, Military Justice. The Trump administration, though, has concluded otherwise. Charlie Savage reports in the New York Times that, quote, and this is the key, the Justice Department's Office of legal counsel, which Mr. Trump sidelined for most of the year until appointing an official lead in August as preparations for the attacks ramped up, has produced a memo apparently blessing this campaign. So this classified, unpublished memo is crucial inside the government because it confers a, quote, golden shield, as it's been called, of immunity from criminal prosecution on anyone who acts in reliance on on it. So this is not the argument that the administration itself has been making publicly, but it seems to have gotten into the New York Times. Shelby, is this sort of what's giving the administration comfort in the legality of their actions? Obviously, people can be prosecuted when there are illegal actions taken in the future. So is this, have you heard anything about this? What are you hearing about how they're seeing the risks of proceeding apace with this conflict?

[Shelby Talcott]

I think there's a few aspects. First of all, this, this legal opinion certainly gives them a lot of COVID in their minds. Right? And it's actually been this legal opinion has been sort of used to justify a lot of the other incidents. Right. The Defense Department had a memo to lawmakers, for example, that outlined the legal basis of these strikes, and it argued that the US Is in an armed conflict with the cartels. Reportedly, this memo leaned heavily on that opinion. And so you're seeing how this sort of, this legal opinion is being used to justify everything else, and it's sort of the big dog at the top, and then everything else is falling underneath it. But I also think that when I talk to Trump administration officials about this, I think that they believe that there's not going to be a significant amount of pushback. And really, so far, there hasn't been. The majority of Republicans are okay with what's happening, right? Even if they say, oh, we don't really love this, there hasn't been significant action to push back on the Trump administration. And I think that's because the administration's argument is, well, what are you going to do? We're saying that these are drug boats. We're saying that these are cartel members. If you push back on us, then you're essentially saying that you are for these drug boats or these drug cartel members. Right. And so it's a really touchy subject for lawmakers. And I think that's part of the reason why we haven't seen more pushback. I mean, even there's some Democrats who are, who are for these boat strikes, but certainly the legal opinion and that substack article I found really interesting because it really laid out how it sort of gives cover for administration officials to move forward with these strikes.

[Emily]

Yeah. And it's, you know, it's not from a pro Trump perspective, hardly from a pro Trump perspective, but lays out all of these other examples is when an OLC opinion, quote, blessing the operation eliminates the difficulty and immunizes the officer and everyone else who relies on it from subsequent punishment. So any military officials involved in the clearly legally controversial Venezuelan boat strikes must negotiate their twin duties of following a superior order and not following a patently illegal order. And when you have this, this blessing, it's so in the weeds from the Office of the Legal Counsel, and the New York Times reports it out. I don't know, Shelby. I just think it seem to suggest that the admin is very comfortable with the politics of the strike and actually that presidential war powers have become so broad that, you know, you can, you could kind of. It's sort of like the opposite of being able to prosecute a ham sandwich. You can prosecute the war version of a ham sandwich if you're the president.

[Shelby Talcott]

Yeah.

[Emily]

Like you can find a way.

[Shelby Talcott]

Yeah. I mean, again, and this substack lays it out pretty well, I think, as somebody who is obviously not a lawyer. But when I was reading.

[Emily]

That's why we brought you on here, Shelby, not pretending to be a lawyer.

[Shelby Talcott]

Constitutional lawyer, but it does seem to be so broad that the question is, how would you, how would you be able to prosecute when you have essentially the US Government telling people legally you're okay to do this. Right. And that's kind of one of the aspects of this substack is you have this government legal opinion, the top dog, saying to lower level people, you're allowed to do this. You are legally justified in doing this, which then makes it very difficult to prosecute for it. So I do think that the Trump administration is extremely comfortable. And I also think that this is an example of the Trump administration really pushing the boundaries. And we've seen this in a lot of different ways, pushing the boundaries in terms of they know exactly what they want, they know the end goal, they know what they want to do. And this time around, compared to the first Term, they have a lot more people who are allies of the president and who are on board fully with what this administration is trying to do. And so you're seeing them use levers and push things to an extent that we really didn't see in the first administration. And I think this is a prime example.

[Emily]

Last question, Shelby. There's a lot of reporting that much of this Venezuela effort is being fueled by Senator Marco Rubio. Is that what your sources say? A lot of this is coming from State, but actually particularly from Rubio himself.

[Shelby Talcott]

Yeah, I think it's no surprise. Marco Rubio has long had very strong opinions on Venezuela. He has been open about how he feels about Nicolas Maduro. I also think Stephen Miller is extremely involved in sort of the drug cartel aspect.

[Emily]

It.

[Shelby Talcott]

And so you have multiple people on board, but you do have a whole group of Trump administration officials who are driving it. And I would say Rubio and Miller are sort of the two top dogs in this scenario. But the ultimate question, of course, is, is this really about drugs or is it about regime change? Right. And I have my opinions on that. I think we're going to find out. But certainly it seems like the administration is not going to continue to just strike by air. I think there's going to be escalation, certainly.

[Emily]

Oh, interesting. Stephen Miller being involved certainly suggests that a regime change may be a situation where you're able to deport more Venezuelans as well. That that might be something on why it would be a priority for him. That's. That could possibly be the case. Shelby, if you have a friendly regime that isn't Nicolas Maduro, you're able to say, we're landing the plane, more deportations. Maybe that has something to do with Miller's portfolio being involved.

[Shelby Talcott]

Yeah. I mean, I also think just the. The drug cartel aspect, the immigration aspect, all of that has brought his involvement into things. But certainly Rubio is one of the people in the room when they're making these decisions. Like I was told a month or so ago, it's the vp, the president, Hegseth Rubio. Those are the people in the room for a lot of the decision making on Venezuela and what a lot of them have, they're all on board with what has been happening. And I think when you're talking about regime change, no one in the administration has openly said we want regime change, but they've made it very clear that they think that Nicolas Maduro is an illegitimate leader. They have essentially designated him as the head of this cartel unit. Right. By saying by tying him to the drug cartels. And so the question is, well, if all of that is true, then how can the administration in their mind, allow him to remain as the Venezuelan leader? So we'll see on that, I guess.

[Emily]

Yeah, that's a great point because then if they don't take action, a lot of questions follow afterwards. So, Shelby Talcott, speaking of regime change, we're going to regime change. Our guests here, Shelby, has correspond. It was so bad for Seba for. It's so great to have you here to tell us what's actually going on behind closed doors at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Thank you.

[Shelby Talcott]

Thanks.

[Emily]

All right. Andrew Cleveland will be with us in just one moment. But first, have you ever noticed those very creepy ads that pop up on your phone and seem to know exactly where you've been, what you've bought, even what you've been talking about? You've probably asked yourself, is my phone monitoring me? The truth is your smartphone is constantly collecting and leaking data without your knowledge or consent. Every day, it builds a detailed profile of your life, your location, your habits, your interests, even the people with whom you communicate. That information is, of course, then funneled into an invisible marketplace where it's tracked, analyzed, and sold to the highest bidder, which, by the way, could include the government. It's not just ignoring, annoying, it's invasive, and it's happening all the time. But the UP phone, the upphone by Unplugged is different. It's designed to protect your privacy from the ground up. No hidden trackers, no data mining. Just a secure, streamlined smartphone experience that puts you back in control. Whether you're texting, browsing, or using apps. The UPPhone ensures your personal information stays personal. It's the phone for people who are done being watched. Ready to take back your digital privacy? Visit unplugged.com emily and get $25 off a phone case with a purchase of a phone. Learn more and order your up phone up phone today. That's unplugged.com Emily because your life should be yours and not theirs. Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha, Spicy but not too spicy.

[Andrew Clavin]

All right.

[Emily]

We're joined now by the great Andrew Clavin, host of the Andrew Clavin show and author of the new book that comes out tomorrow. It's called, after that, the Dark Andrew, thanks for coming back.

[Andrew Clavin]

Emily, it's always good to see you. Hi.

[Emily]

Yeah, tell us about this book that comes out tomorrow. I know you always write with the sort of. What's the best way to put it? Everything that's happening in the cultural climate in your mind. So tell us where this one comes from.

[Andrew Clavin]

Well, this is a book.

[Emily]

It's.

[Andrew Clavin]

It starts out as a love story. The hero is a guy named Cameron Winter who loves to solve mysteries. And he's going out with a girl he's been working up his courage to call for a long time. They go out on a date and she knows that he's interested in murder stories, so she tells him one. She tells him about a locked room murder mystery and he sort of, to impress her, goes out to solve this impossible murder and finds he's broken open this enormous conspiracy that becomes very, very dangerous. And so it's a love story, it's a thriller, and it's also a whodunit. And you know, it's always, it's very difficult when you are known as a political commentator to say, here's a novel I write. But in fact I'm a novelist who's a political commentator. I'm not a political commentator who's a novelist. I've been writing novels my whole life and these are award winning novels and these are best have been best selling novels. And I really hope, I really hope that people will go out and buy this book because they're going to love it and it's gotten the greatest reviews I've had in a long time and I'm just really proud of it. So I think, I hope people go out and take a look at it.

[Emily]

I mean, it's just a brilliant plot. But you just sort of have described yourself inadvertently. Well, maybe it was advertently as the reverse Stephen King.

[Andrew Clavin]

Andrew the reverse Stephen King.

[Emily]

You're the novelist.

[Andrew Clavin]

Yes.

[Emily]

And he's the. Yes.

[Andrew Clavin]

Yeah, it's always tough. I'm actually an admirer of Stephen King as a great, great storyteller. And every time he opens his mouth politically, I want to say, like, tell a story. Tell it, you know, just tell one of those stories where a whole town explodes with vampires. That's what I want you to do because he's very good at, well, you.

[Emily]

Know, in writing a whodunit that also has this kind of spooky element, the murder element, the love element. What is it like mingling the dark and the light in, in such an interesting way?

[Andrew Clavin]

Well, I really am, as you say, very aware of the Culture. It's a culture that has always bothered me in the political world, not the politics. I've always felt that we lose people at the movies, not at the ballot box. We lose. We've lost the country at the movies and on TV and not at the ballot box. You know, you can win a thousand elections, but if you lose the culture, you lose the country, because that's what fashions people's minds. And so I have been a sort of rebellious voice in the culture all my life, and I remain that because it's locked down. I mean, I can't tell you how locked down it is. I worked in Hollywood. You can't be a conservative and make a living in Hollywood because ultimately, like me, your. The jobs will dry up because people just won't work with you. Even in publishing, which is a little bit more open, they have stopped, virtually stopped publishing novels by white men. And my publisher, who is one of the greatest, probably the greatest mystery editor of all time, has been canceled in various places. He used to be just welcome everywhere because he was a brilliant, brilliant editor of mysteries. He's been canceled for only. Not for only publishing white men, but for publishing a lot of white men. So this is a time time of, like, secret censorship, of censorship that's below the eye level of most people. And guys like me surviving is kind of a miracle. And I. I've done it through hook and by crook, and I've been very, very fortunate to do it. But it needs more voices, and it needs more publishers, and it needs more venues and movie houses so that we who are good at what we do, but also have a vision that is in line with tradition and religion and faith and. And a conservative world in the sense of being an American world. So we have a place to go. You know, it's. It's gotten. It's gotten very, very tough, especially for young people who don't have the track record that I have to get in and break in. And I get these really heartbreaking letters all the time saying, you know, I. I've written this wonderful novel, but I've been turned down everywhere. And I believe them. I mean, some of them probably haven't written a wonderful novel, and some of them have and just can't get published. People are not aware of just what a stranglehold the left has on the culture. And we know about the news media. It's just as bad in Hollywood. It is just as bad in the publishing industry. It's just now. It's just now we've kind of won A victory in Trump's reelection. Representative Big, big victory for offbeat media like the Daily Wire, like Megyn Kelly, like all the people who we know have been breaking through. But it's not going to matter if we win that victory. And people don't produce the kind of content that is great entertainment and is also has a rich, deep sense of the country. And that, to me, is what the real fight, where the real fight is going to be won or lost. The left, if you think there's. There's no reason why the left screams and yells when anybody on in the entertainment business says, you know, Donald Trump has a point, they just rip him to shreds because they know once they lose their stranglehold on the culture, they will have lost everything because they have no arguments. All their policies make life worse. So the only thing they do have is they do have very beautiful actresses and very handsome actors and very famous writers constantly saying that anybody who disagrees with them is a fascist. And, you know, as I say, people like me are thin on the ground. And you have to be very. What's the word? You have to be mentally tough to sort of withstand the stuff that comes your way. I went in Hollywood from having a very high income to having zero income simply because I said, you know, maybe we should support the wars overseas instead of, like, attacking our soldiers while they're getting blown up, making movies about how bad they are while they're getting shot at. Maybe that's not a good thing to do. That ended my Hollywood career. And so that's. And that is happening all the time to people, most of whom keep their mouth shut. And so, you know, you're just going to get one kind of entertainment until we start building venues that take people like me and actually say, okay, you know, we're going to let you say what you say. Even in my conservative little publishing house, I've had little fights about things where I just say, like, I'm not cutting stuff out because the New York Times is going to be offended. In fact, if I can put stuff in that offends the New York Times and still make it a great story and not make it a polemic, I'll do it. You know, I think it's just important that you hear the way the world really is instead of the world the left want the way the world the way the left wants you to see it.

[Emily]

Well, not one publisher, and I'm not saying that it's racism or sexism, but not one publisher has taken my Matt Walsh, Andrew Claven, fan fiction novel, which I think is quite good.

[Andrew Clavin]

I cannot. That's amazing. That's insane.

[Emily]

If only that were real. If only that were real. I'm actually going to go a little bit out of order here because I plan to talk about the Democrats right now, but in a way, I kind of want to talk about the right. This Atlantic article by a Stanford student was fascinating. It was published just the last couple of days and the young woman writes, what outsiders might not understand is that at least in my experience, the appeal of conservatism on campus today isn't really about Donald Trump or Trumpism or any other set of ideological beliefs. At the level of national politics, the GOP is full of Trump loyalists, loyalists who refuse to break from the party line even as some of Trump's prominent followers outside government have broken with him on certain issues. But at Stanford, the conservative culture was full of diversity and contradiction. And this actually was in my head as I saw Tucker Carlson dropped like a two plus hour episode with Nick Fuentes just a, like an hour or so ago. And I wanted to run this clip by you, Andrew, of Nick Fuentes talking about how he has this sort of claim to being marginalized. He's trying to tell the story about how he's been marginalized by the institutional right and at one point had a sort of infamous brush up with Marjorie Taylor Greene. So let's go ahead and roll this clip. It's S10.

[Andrew Clavin]

So it sounds like you're not to put words in your mouth, but your just, your life experience has left you so stung by the Republican establishment. You've, you don't, you don't trust anybody. It sounds.

[Emily]

Well, no, I mean, the, these people attacked me when the rules were different and now they got better and now I'm good with them. I mean, I'm, I'm willing to be good with them. But I think that I don't know if Marjorie still has a problem with me or not. So the reason I'm connecting points A and B here, Andrea, I'm curious what you think is just this will manifest, this institutional distrust will manifest in some ways that are healthy and it will manifest in some ways that are unhealthy. And that strikes me as something people still don't understand about the Trump era and the kind of young right. It's not sort of like institutional country club. ALEX P. Keaton, Young conservatives. It's some of that and then it's some of something else.

[Andrew Clavin]

Well, yeah, I mean, the thing that you have to be careful about is there's going to be a reaction. The left has been oppressive. They've been insulting, they've insulted people's religion, they've insulted people's nation, they've insulted people's values. They've been, you've tried to turn morality on its head. They brought pornography into elementary schools. And then when people tried to force it out, they had the set the FBI on them. And they call us, they say, oh, they're just waging a culture war. But it's only a culture world once we start to fight it. So, so listen, if you are a wise person and a person who's contained within yourself and a person whose values grow up from within yourself and from within the things you know, you don't react to them, you simply defeat them. And I think that's what we've done. I think we actually have broken their stranglehold on parts of the culture and have an opportunity to take the culture back. We're not going to be able to do it with people like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes. I think Tucker have having Nick on and just sitting there credulously, as he always does with right wingers who hate Jews. He always just sits there credulously and sort of believes every tale of oppression and exclusion that they tell. But Nick, who. I don't hate Nick in any way. I mean, I think he's an intelligent guy. I think he could be a better man than he is. But he sits there and says that he is called anti Semitic for, for criticizing Israel, but he's called anti Semitic because he doesn't like Jews. I mean, I don't care. Israel is nothing to me. You know, I don't come from there. I don't have any people there. I don't have anything that's not a place that matters to me except as an American ally. But this is a guy who said Jews should leave the country cuz they're not one of us. He's a guy who said that segregation, black segregation in the south, which was an insult to American values down to the ground, he said it was good for them, meaning black, black people and good for us. You know, this is a guy who has spouted a lot of anti Semitic, you know, rhetoric over the years. And then when people say, you know, that's kind of ugly and hateful and stupid, he's like, you know what? I can't criticize Israel. You can criticize Israel all you want, but hating people who are in fact a very important part of this country and great contributors to the good of this country over the years that, that I think is, is despicable. And it's disgusting. It's disgusting. I think that I don't know what happened to Tucker Carlson. I really don't know. He was great on Fox. There were days when he was great on Fox. The stuff that he's been saying, you know, hosting again credulously history hobbyist who says the Holocaust was a, was a, was a mercy killing. You know, Hitler just took too many prisoners and he didn't want them to starve, painfully flee to death, so he did them the favor of gassing them by the millions. You know, it's just not true. Those things aren't true. It's not true that we bomb Nagasaki because Christians live there. It's like those things are not historically true. And so I don't. This is a part of the right that is enticing to young men who feel that they have been penalized for being penile, for having, for being men. You know, they sort of. Sorry, but I mean, I couldn't help myself. But they, you know, they, they have been, they've been called toxic, their manhood has been looked down upon. They're told that, you know, they should step out of the way and let women do the jobs that men should, should really be doing. And I don't blame them for being angry. I'm a little startled when I find out how angry they are. I don't blame them. So the way this works is, is really simple. Talking about hating the Jews as if they were this powerful people, you know, and they are. And in some ways they are powerful people. But hating them for your failures gives you a sense of strength. Emily is always a sign of the, of the devil at work. When somebody offers you strength that makes you weak, that is, it's always, you know, just take this heroin, you're going to feel great. Just watch this porn. You're going to be tough, you know, just hate women. Things are going to go great for you. And that's what they do with the Jews. And I think that when you think it through, what we're having now is this kind of debate within the right is do we still believe in the Republic, the Republic that was handed down to us from the founders? Do we still believe in that? Or are we in a post liberal world where guys like Hitler made some kind of sense, where strong men, you know, will, will get rid of all these enemies that we have, these leftists. And that's the debate. And young men are being told that the strong way forward is kind of a fascist way forward. It's the Hitlerian hate the Jews. Hey, don't. Don't listen to any of this, you know, love your neighbor stuff. You know, don't listen to anybody who doesn't have the same religion as you or anything like that. But that's actually the act of action of a weak man. If you think about it, in a fascist state, there's only one furor. Everybody else is a toady. You know, everybody else is like, oh, please, sir, yes, sir. No, sir. That's what you do when you have a furor. You know, that's the way it works. When you live in a republic and each man is free, then each man can learn to be a man. And, you know, I'm a person who considers myself every bit as good as the most guy in the highest office in the country. I'm not afraid of Donald Trump. I'm not afraid of anybody because I grew up an American, and I know that I'm as good as any man out there. And so that is the harder lesson that. That people like me and other commentators are trying to teach young men that it's not through hating women, it's not through degrading women, it's not by hating Jews, it's not by hating blacks, that you become a man. It's by feeling within yourself that you have the strength and the courage to be as good as any man and to look any other man in the eye and say, I am equal to you. You know, I'm not equal to LeBron James on the basketball court, but before God, I AM equal to LeBron James or any other guy. And that's the. That's the mode of a republic. And only a republic gives you that gives you that power, that individual manhood power. So the thing is, guys like Nick Fuentes are selling you a bill of goods. They're selling you this idea that if you hate, you know, people who are you feel are more powerful than you, that will somehow make you powerful. If you go online and say, you could just hear the weakness in their voice, Silence, Jew. They'll tweet things like that. You think like, yeah, you know, you're a pansy. You know, anybody who says that is just, you know, a Nancy boy sitting in his mother's basement pretending to be a king. And so I really think that in this fight, the people who believe in the republic, the people who believe in the founding, because that's where I think the dividing line is. It's people who are for the founding and people who are against the founding and the left is against the founding, and some of these people in the far right are against. Against the founding too. But. But I believe in the founding, and I believe that's the way forward for men. That's like, what, what real manhood is, is saying, you know what? I don't want the government to give me anything. I'm going to build a business, I'm going to build a life. I'm going to work, I'm going to support a wife, I'm going to support kids. I'm going to do the things that men do that make them actually strong instead of making them feel strong for 10 minutes and then while they crawl back under their mother's bed. And I just. I just think when I watch again, I don't know what happened to Tucker. You know, I don't know why he does it. Some people say it's because he's getting money from Qatar. Some people say this is the way he's always been underneath. I don't know why he's hosting Nick Fuentes. And don't tell me it's just because he's not going to indulge in cancel culture. He only hosts people who say this. When he brings people on, he tries to entice them into attacking Jews. It's. Something has gone terribly, terribly wrong on this little corner of the right, and they are fighting, you know, this. This battle against the left was won by the Daily Wire, by Joe Rogan, by Megyn Kelly. It wasn't won by these guys. And now they're sort of trying to sneak in and, you know, grab. Grab the victory away. I don't think they're going to do it. America has always thrown up haters like this, and they've always hated, hit a brick wall because of American decency and American freedom. We don't want to give up our freedom. We don't want a furor. We don't want people, you know, telling us that the guy next door who's my pal can't live here because he's black or he's Jewish. That's not what Americans have been about over time. And so we'll see if that's still true. We'll find out. But I'm not going to be shy about saying that these guys are wrong. You know, they're just wrong. And they tell, they say things that aren't true, true. You know, their history is wrong. It's just not true. And it cannot be. It cannot be. That Every historian on earth says one thing, and Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes, they've got the secret. They've got the secret source of what really happened 80 years ago. And they, you know, they're going to tell us the real truth now. That just doesn't make any, any sense. So, look, this is a battle of between truth and lies. I think every movement has to fight it at all times. The left is far more dangerous than these guys are because these guys are going to lose in the long run. But so I want to focus on the left and I don't want to be turned away into this. But since you bring it up, I just want to be really clear about where I stand on it.

[Emily]

No, I think that's fair. We would need another couple of hours to Tucker probably, but that. But because I'm much more, I think, sympathetic. But in this case with Fuentes, I mean, it's such a difficult balance to strike because on the one hand, yes, white men have been the victims of a campaign, a racist and sexist campaign by the left. On the other hand, victim mentality, even when, well, predicated, is heroin. To your point, Andrew, and it's just a. I'm curious, and this will be my last question on it because I think it is so important for people on the right to focus on the left because the left is focused on the right and there are way more of them in positions of power in the media. But just on this last question, because we're both conservative, I wonder how to reach people. The many people who are listening to Fuentes, a lot of them, I think, are doing it for the entertainment value and maybe not for the ideology, but people who are sort of seduced by this without also alienating them and saying, well, you know, you're, you're just being a loser or whatever, mouth breather. That's my term of. I tend to favor that term, but it's a tough balance to strike.

[Andrew Clavin]

Well, you know, it's the same thing with Fuentes and Andrew Tate. You know, Adam, after, after you've been abused by women, after women have told you you're toxic, after the whole culture has told you that women should be in charge. To have a guy like Andrew Tate come along and say, you know, you can abuse women and you can, you can use them and you can beat them and you can do all these things to them, guys feel like, yes, this is giving me strength. And he's like a big guy and he's can be fun. Like, like Fuentes and Tucker Sometimes he can be funny and witty and all this stuff. But the question, question, my question is this. If your philosophy is a reaction to the way you've been treated, who's in charge of you? Well, the people that you're reacting to, they're the ones that are in charge of you. They're the ones who have control over you. So if, if you get so angry at women that your whole philosophy is of life is that, you know you're going to treat women badly, it's women who are controlling you. And, and in fact, you know, the answer to that is, listen, I, I, I grew up in one of the first flowerings of feminism. I ignored it. I just thought, I'm gonna, I just thought, I'm gonna, I'm gonna open doors for women. I had women in New York stop dead on the street and yell at me while I was opening the door. And I would say, hey, you know, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. You don't have to walk through the door. I found myself a great wife who's, like, taking care of me for 50 years. Like, I just thought, like, go ahead, you know, knock yourselves out. Do it, you know, ruin your life, lives. I don't care. It's not my life. I'm going to live my life the way it is. That, to me, is what men do. What men do is they forge a path for themselves out of their own values. And so I think that you're right. But I don't want to say to these guys, your mouth breathers are stupid. I agree they've been abused, you know, but you have to marshal that inner strength to just say, go ahead and abuse me and see if you can stop me. You know, that's, that's the question. The question is not whether you abuse me, it's whether you can stop me. And like I said, I've been in one of the toughest professions. Or is show business, entertainment, publishing, toughest business in the world to succeed at? I've succeeded at it for, you know, 40 years, I guess. And I think, like, you know, you do that by just saying, these are my values. This is what motivates me. I'm not bending. I'm not bending. I'm going. I'm walking my path. And I think that that's what we have to teach young men. You know, we have to teach them, look, there are plenty of fantastic women in the world. You know, if you're getting your idea of women. Oh, stop. No, if you're getting your idea of women from activists. If you're getting your idea of blacks from activists, you know, you don't know any black people or women. You know, it's like that's. That's not who those people are. It's not who anybody. The activists don't represent anybody except this little sliver of the left that has taken control of the Democratic Democrat party. So it's. It's a question of teaching independence and strength and. And, you know, self reliance and all of which are synonyms for manhood.

[Emily]

Mm. Speed demon dating through the antifa mug shots. Okay, quick break. And Andrew Clavin will be back with us in just one second. Things feel very heavy right now. We were just talking about that. And politics is divisive. The news can be depressing. We were also just talking about that. And it often feels like we. We as a society have more pulling us apart than bringing us together. But here's something simple that unites us. Shopping small. Who doesn't love shopping small? Buy from small business. When you do that, you're not just getting a product. You're helping someone's dream grow, and you're investing in values we all share. Honesty, craftsmanship, and community. That's what a warehouse is all about. They've teamed up with nearly a hundred small business makers across the US to bring you handmade goods filled with heart and creativity, uniting people of all backgrounds in this singular mission. So let's choose connection over division and. And show small businesses the support they deserve. And they do deserve it. So visit awarehouseshop.com and use code party for 15% off your first order. That's a warehouseshop.com code party. It's a great website. Make sure to check it out. New markdowns are on at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save even more. Up to 70% on dresses, tops, boots, and handbags to give and get. Because I always find something amazing. Just so many good brands. I get an extra 5% off with my Nordstrom credit card. Total queen treatment. Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack. Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat. Or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy. All right, back with us now is Andrew Clavin. He's host of the Andrew Clavin show and author of the new book. Book after that, the Dark. And now he's going to tell us what's wrong with the Democratic Party.

[Andrew Clavin]

We're gonna.

[Emily]

We're gonna dive into it. I want to start with this big new report from a group called welcome Center Left group called welcome Semaphore had an exclusive. They did this massive survey of hundreds of thousands of voters over the last six months and found that 70% of voters think the Democratic Party is, quote, out of touch. Most voters believe the party over prioritizes issues like protecting the rights of l LGBTQ plus Americans and fighting climate change while not caring about securing the border or lowering the rate of crime. And then also this report got some quantitative data on the explosion of, I guess, quote, unquote, woke language. They studied national dumb platforms, party platforms from 2012 to 2014, and found a surge in language about special specific racial groups that was up 828. They found a surge in language about environmental justice, up 333%, about LGBTQ rights, up 1044%. And mentions of men fell by 63% and of fathers by 100%. Here, though, is Gavin Newsom on the all the Smoke podcast, bringing the Democratic Party back into play with men across America.

[Andrew Clavin]

You got the Supreme Court talking about getting rid of the Voting Rights act, and that's very real. Yeah, that may likely happen in just a matter of months. I mean, they're rewriting history, censoring historical facts. It's an unbelievable moment. All this anti woke stuff is just anti black, period, full stop. All the crt, esg, DEI stuff. That's all this is, is. It's this Great Purge and it's happening in real time. And I'm just. I'm sitting here and I feel like, you know, luckily I'm governor, but, like, we're not doing enough. We're not calling this out. We're not drawing a line here. And again, it's not about Democrats or Republicans. It's about who we've. Right and wrong, man.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Andrew Clavin]

Right and goddamn wrong. Daylight and darkness.

[Emily]

Right and goddamn wrong. And there's that other clip where he was talking about playing basketball in the driveway and acting as though he was like, I had a working class background, even though his dad was a lawyer for the Getty family. Great appearance by Gavin Newsom here. Andrew, are you convinced? Yeah.

[Andrew Clavin]

Well, first of all, I am shocked. I am shocked that a Democrat would say that anyone who disagrees with him is anti black and racist. I've never heard that before. That's amazing. Amazing. That he had come, that he had the original mind that could come up with such a startling new approach to politics, political discourse. You know, this guy, I think, is going to find, when he gets on the national stage, I think he's going to find that he hasn't got what it takes. This is, this is the thing about him. You know, he's got hair, which I admire. I always think that's a good thing. But he, you know, his, his state is a dumpster fire. I don't know how much time he spent in California. I lived there for over. For about 20 years. And, and it's a paradise and people are moving out. Why are they moving out? Gavin Newsom Two words explain why people are moving out of California. GAVIN Newsom so you're governing paradise and people are like jumping off. Please take me out of paradise. I want to go live in Texas where it's 100 degrees in the shade. I want to go live in a desert anywhere. Anywhere but California, anywhere but paradise. Just get me away from Gavin Newsom. I don't think that guy is going to anywhere but he is expressive of something about the Democrat Party that, that poll you were referring to, that study you were referring to also shows. And I look at it from the other, the other side of it. If a guy is a working man of any stripe, from white collar to blue collar, anywhere in between, and he goes out every day and he does his job and he's honest and he saves his money and he takes care of, of the people in his life. He takes care of his wife, he takes care of his kids. If a woman is a mom and she wants to take care of, she wants more kids than she has. She doesn't want just one kid. She wants lots of kids. She doesn't want to have to leave her kid after a month and go back to work if she wants to live that kind of life. What have the Democrats ever done for those people? I mean, that's most people. That is actually the majority of people. What have the Democrats ever done? They talk about the gays, they talk about the people, men who think they're women. They talk about people who've broken into the country. They want to defend gangsters and make sure they get due process. They don't want drug dealers blown up in the middle of the ocean heaven for Femme. All of these people who are hurting our country, they are for. And all of these people who are just outliers in our country, never mind the people hurting our country. Just people who are, you know, on the fringes of our country, they have, oh, boy, we're going to give you everything. You're going to get to the center of the country. But, but the regular working man and woman and their children and families, they do jack crap for them and they don't care about them. And you know, the one thing, you know, people hate Trump, people like Trump, people love Trump, but that's who he cares about. He cares about people who are doing their jobs, you know, that's, that's what he cares about. And I think that, you know, you have people in New York, especially young people, you know, following Zoran Mumdami, you know, they say, I'm going to give you this free, and that'll be free, and that'll be free. You know, free is a, Free is a word like dragon. It doesn't refer to anything in the real world. You know, I mean, it's like we know what it means, but it has no reference point in the real world. And so how stupid are these people? Well, I guess what it is is they're afraid they can't make it. They're afraid they can't do the things that. They're afraid a world no longer exists in which they can do the things that most people, people want to do. Most people want to do their jobs and feel, you know, self sufficient. Most women want to be mothers and want to have children. These are the things that people want to do. It's where all the joy of life comes from. What do the Democrats do for them? Like, nothing. They don't even mention them. They don't even talk about them anymore. All they do is you. You stink. You know, you're, you're anti black, you know, anti black, but a stupid thing to say, you know, like, you're a fascist. You're systemically racist. Your country stinks. This country has never been great. These are the things the Democrats say. I don't know who's going to vote for him after a while, even the people who they ostensibly support catch on. The thing about this country is that every single social movement ends up a leftist movement. So you start out with feminism and you say, say, you know, women should have rights and, and choices. And most people, I was there when that happened. Most people went, yeah, I get that. You know, yeah, I get that. And then it ends up, oh, men are toxic, families stink. And being a mother is less than being, you know, a model who walks down a Runway in her underwear. You know, I mean that these are the things that ends up being. Because It's a leftist movement. And then when you say, well, I'm against feminism, people think you're against women, but no, you're against leftism. Same thing with civil rights. It starts out like, hey, blacks are being mistreated. And most people go like, kind of. They kind of are, aren't they? You know, and it ends up with white people stink. You know, this country stinks. It's systemically racist because it's a leftist movement. And then when you say, well, I'm against civil rights, people say, you're anti black. You know, all of these things are lies. It's a very good system, especially if you have the media backing you up. But I don't think they have the media backing them up anymore, because I think we're the media. And I think that that's, that's the end for people, you know, going on NBC and saying, yes, anybody who's against hiring people just because of the color of their skin is a racist. And you go like, I'm sorry, what? You know, what, what was that? So I think that they're in big trouble. I think, you know, people like Gavin Newsom and, you know, and the rest of the left are in really big trouble because the only thing they really had had was the media. The only thing they had with the academy, the news media, and Hollywood creating this cocoon of lies around them because their arguments didn't make any sense. And, you know, oh, you know, Hope Obama is hope, you know, that. That's a. You can't say stupid stuff like that when you have, like, little gadflies like me and you going like, no, it's not. And by the way, you're lying because you said this here and you said this here, and here's a video of it. And you, you can see it the same moment you're talking. While you're talking on NBC, we're on X showing these videos. And so they're done. You know, I think they're done. And listen, the fight is never over. It's always going to be a fight. There's always going to be bad guys and good guys. But for Now, I think J.D. vance is the next president. That's what I think. You know, I think.

[Emily]

Fascinating. Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Clavin]

Who's going to protect them? Who's going to protect them from the stupidity of their own arguments?

[Emily]

Right. I mean, we're seeing this with the Karine Jean Pierre book tour, which I suspect you will outsource.

[Andrew Clavin]

Even those words. Even those words really string together.

[Emily]

Well, yes, it is an academic tome and includes lines like about Lady Gaga and her we need to dive into it to just make the simple point that they're now criticizing Kreedrone Fear because she's no longer venture used to them and they have competition from others in.

[Andrew Clavin]

The press and they're criticizing her because she left the Democratic Party because they were so mean to Joe Biden.

[Emily]

Yes. Yeah.

[Andrew Clavin]

Which is kind of funny, you know.

[Emily]

Not enough tapioca pudding for Joe Biden. Andrew Clavin's new book is called after that the Dark. Go buy it. Thank you so much for joining us once again, Andrew Clavin, really appreciate you being here.

[Andrew Clavin]

Always love to see you, Emily. Thanks a lot.

[Emily]

Amazing. All right, quick break and we will be back with more right afterwards. Okay. You guys always make me do this ad in a trump voice. Recently I learned about colostrum, the very first milk known as liquid gold that babies receive from their mothers after birth. Packed with proteins, natural growth factors, antimicrobial peptides that work to enhance your immune response, reduce inflation, inflation, inflammation, reduce inflation, repair and balance gut lining, reduce bloating and make your hair and skin look amazing. So today's sponsor Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality cow colostrum available in the US 100% made in America from 100% 100% American grass fed cows. They don't over process or strip their colostrum, leaving it whole, full fat and high protein for ultimate nutrient density. It is the highest quality bovine colostrum you can buy. It's also easy to drink, made with delicious natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. Really it is good. So you just Simply add a 3 gram scoop of either their chocolate, Madagascar vanilla or strawberry. Strawberry is my favorite into your coffee or smoothie or into a glass of milk. That's what I like to do. For a limited time. Our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com afterparty and use code AFTERPARTY at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code [e-mail] after your purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you score holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London and more because there's always something new. I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.

[Shelby Talcott]

Santa who join the NordicLub at Nordstrom.

[Emily]

Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gift, big perks. That's why you rack. Okay, there was a. There are a couple of clips that I want to get to based on the Democrat survey that I just mentioned with Andrew Clavin, finding over the course of six months and consultations with hundreds of thousands of voters that the Democratic Party is out of touch. That mentions in party platforms of language about racial groups, environmental justice, and LGBTQ rights. Surge. We're talking, in the latter case, a , more than 1,000%. Most Americans found the party is over prioritizing issues like LGBT stuff, climate change, while not caring about securing the border or lowering the rate of crime. So what is the Democratic Party to do? I actually want to play this clip of Karine Jean Pierre, which you'll immediately note is what not to do, because I think it makes an interesting point in that direction. So let's go ahead here and roll Karine Jean Pierre on MSNBC over the weekend.

[Andrew Clavin]

Again, do you have any regrets at.

[Emily]

All for anything that you said while.

[Shelby Talcott]

You were speaking on behalf of this administration?

[Emily]

She's so close to the camera, I can look. It's a simple yes or no.

[Andrew Clavin]

You don't even know.

[Emily]

No, no, no. Because you're asking for a yes or no question. I want to put some context to it, too. I woke up every day. I woke up every day. Very. That's true. To be the White House press secretary. I woke up every day as a. As a black. Black woman who is queer. Yes. Who had never. No one had ever seen someone like me at that podium standing behind to have that job. And I did it to the best of my abilities. And I spoke for the President of the United States, a person that I believe was a decent person. We did not get everything right. No one is saying we got everything right. No one is saying that we got everything right. No one is saying that when Chris Jean Pierre is cornered, she throws up the shield. That worked very well from 2020 to 2024, which is retreating to identity. I am a black queer woman. She says every time that she's boxed into a corner by a journalist who will ask some questions that Karine Jean Pierre would not get because she was intimidating reporters out of asking them by threatening to take away their access to the White House when the President of the United States was. Was visibly ailing in front of literally everyone. And so this book literally called Independent, just the maybe worst named book in the history of poorly named books, because it's exactly Directionally correct. Right? Like the country is looking for independent media, independent spirits. But Karine Jean Pierre is the least independent. She is so, so vigorously attached to Joe Biden. And she didn't really have an option unless she wanted to completely spill the beans on the Biden administration. But even that would be difficult because it would make her look bad. So she would have had to cop to, like, years of lies and misbehavior in order to substantiate that going forward in her career. And we talked about this last week, but she is getting absolutely roasted for this interview she did with Isaac Chotner of the New York New Yorker where they go in circles. New Yorker published a transcript and actually reading her Babel is incredible. This is gonna be F3. It's just when you see it in a transcript, the way she runs in circles when pressed over and over again on what are you actually saying? So Chotner says, you argue that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. A lot of people thought that Biden was not the best person to go up against Trump in the summer of 2024 after his debate. With his approval ratings in the basement, shouldn't those people try to give Dems the best chance to replace Trump? You're talking about Biden like loyalty was owed to him. Isn't loyalty owed to the. Owed to the country? Kring jump here. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that this is not how you treat somebody. Isaac Chautner comes back. Is this a matter of how you treat someone or a matter of putting the country first? Very good question. Well put. Cringe jump here. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Treating somebody with dignity is not the same as loyalty. What a distinction. I mean, the way he was treated, I had never. If you had seen something like that in the Democratic Party. Please, please, please point that out. Out he goes. So what was an example, the way he was treated? King Jean Pierre says there were lots of nasty articles. And so the New Yorker comes back with her and like, so your problem here is that there were nasty articles. And she just once again fumbles, says absolutely nothing other than these like filler words where she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We have to be very clear. Wait a minute, wait a minute. And then her mind spins to come up with an answer that is that actually like just sounds as though it's an answer to the question in the way she heard her tone of voice getting over excited. I actually just pulled up my own hair, but it sounds like that, but it doesn't say anything in substance. It's like when somebody just is completely trying to do the tone of voice that makes it sound like they're answering the question. That's what this entire interview is basically. And at one point, New Yorker interviewer says, okay, but I'm not understanding what you being like a black queer woman has to do with why you stood by Joe Biden. And of course, Kareem Jean Pierre has no answer to that question. She's just going into all of these interviews. I mean, this woman has saturated herself throughout the media. Morning Joe, New Yorker, msnbc, Colbert, Tim Miller, bulwark. And she's getting demolished. Demolished. Just about everywhere she goes. She looks foolish just objectively, everywhere she goes. And so, I mean, yes, the media now knows it has more competition, as Andrew Clavin said earlier in the show. And Karine Jean Pierre obviously doesn't have a leg to stand on. But even then, the fact that she continues to go on these interviews, man, that girl wants some money from this book. Book. That's the only explanation here. She wants to sell the book, get some money, maybe get some sympathy, show the Biden family that she has total loyalty, unflinching loyalty, which, as we said earlier, was not a choice. It's her only option is to either say nothing or express unflinching loyalty or look like a complete liar, which is not helpful for your career either. So this is where she finds herself. Well done, Karine Jean Pierre. And guess who is dogged by the executive. Same problem, Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris, who sat for a BBC interview over the last couple of days and introduced the new run versus serve distinction as a cope to explain her position on Joe Biden's health, which came into focus during that debate, but of course, not before. Nobody had anything to say about it before with the exception of, like, Ezra Klein in January of that year and the Wall Street Journal, like, a month before the debate. So let's take a look at how Kamala Harris. This is so bad. I mean, this is like you've seen all the Korean Jean Pierre clips. This one might actually be worse. Let's roll a six. There is a very serious. The reporter's so confused between capacity to be president of the United States. No. And the capacity to run for President of the United States. And. And so it is on that latter piece that I talk about in the book about my concern about his ability with the level of endurance, energy, the level of endurance, the level requires, especially running against now the current president. But isn't it a strange message to the public to say, you know what, you need to be tougher and more able to run a political campaign than actually to be be the person behind the desk in the Oval Office, to be the person making decisions in the situation room? So did you just not think it was that bad or did you feel you just couldn't raise it? I was concerned about his ability to run for re election, given what the campaign would require. So there's a pretty easy way to answer that question, which is just that it's not a great answer. But there's pretty easy as long as I'm Monday morning quarterbacking the entire Democratic Party over the last 15 years. There's an obvious answer to that, which is to say it was difficult for him to he didn't have the stamina to do the twofer right to be sitting president and campaign against Donald Trump. But Kamala Harris is so flustered by the reality that she has to spin. I mean, maybe she's dizzy from all of the spinning and she can't think quite straight because there's just like there's no good answer. But there's a better way to say to lie. In this case, like there's a completely. She can't even lie well. Can't even lie well. And yet. And yet. Let's roll. S7. Your baby nieces, Amara and Leela. When are they going to see a woman in charge in the White House? In their lifetime for sure. Could it be you? Possibly. Have you made a decision yet? No, I have not. But you say in your book it's gonna be Lara Trump. That is correct. I am not done. But when you look at the bookies odds, they put you as an outsider even behind Dwayne the Rock Johnson. I mean, is that underestimating you? 10 out of 10 delivery, all kinds of polls that will tell you a variety of things. I've never listened to polls. If I listen to polls, I would have noticed run from my first office or my second office, and I certainly wouldn't be sitting here in this interview. Maybe it'll actually be I said Lara Trump, but maybe Caitlyn Jenner first, first woman president for Kamala Harris's little nieces. I don't think it'll be her. I don't think it'll be Kamala Harris. I mean, you never say never, but I just, something tells me it's not going to be Kamala Harris. Now on that point, I just wanted to quickly address this clip of the CEO of American Idol actually kind of. This is an entire conversation about. This is an entire conversation about Dems not picking up on the vibe shift or picking up on the vibe shift and not being able to adapt because they have painted themselves into a corner so badly. They will find some people from outside the party establishment that have not adapted, that don't have all of the baggage that they carry into politics politics with. And those will be the people that probably be in the best position, but because of all of the. The cultural baggage, they just aren't able to. Even if they're clever enough to kind of pick up on the vibe shift like a Gavin Newsom, that it's almost impossible for them to remake themselves. The only person who's kind of doing it is Bernie Sanders on like his podcast appearances with Andrew Schultz and Tim Dillon recently. But much left to be determined on that front. To underscore though, what changed and changed really quickly, I want to roll this clip actually from Semaphore of the American Eagle CEO talking about the Sydney Sweeney ad. The Sydney Sweeney ad that set the Internet aflame, that people like me talked about ad nauseam and had too many opinions on behind closed doors. Here's what the CEO has to say about what went down. Our chairman and CEO is a very well known Jewish businessman, Jay Schottenstein. And so for some of the social media noise to go down these paths of Nazism and white supremacy was honestly offensive. This is the moment that the crisis communications industrial complex tells you, you need to get out there and you need to make a statement and you need to get ahead of the news and go, go, go. And I actually think the smartest thing we ever did was do nothing because it allowed us to really, truly take stock in what was really happening with those brand metrics, with those business metrics, with those customer metrics. Can you tell I've never worked at a major corporation before. That is the. I just assume everybody who looks somewhat fancy is the CEO that is actually the chief Marketing officer of American Eagle, who might actually have even been in a position to know more about this ad campaign than the CEO himself. But the most powerful thing. Listen to that. The most powerful thing that we could have done was say nothing. Or that we did was say nothing. And on top of that, the CMO here was saying actually they were offended by people who were making comparisons to the G nes genes instead of the J A N S genes. And what did they not do? Also come out and say, we are deeply offended by this. They just Freaking ignored it. They just ignored it. And that's because everyday people are not, not addicted to the discourse on X. They might hear about it. It might cross their transom when they're scrolling TikTok, but they have lives that are dedicated to so many other wonderful things and not the discourse. And so if you say nothing again, I'm. I'm Monday morning quarterbacking the last 15 years of the Democratic Party. I'm just going to do the same thing with corporate America while I'm at it. I should truly be making millions of dollars a year for the value that I'm able to offer, because there's no reason that in 2015, this could have been the obvious strategy adopted by C suites around the country. When you see fake controversies bubbling up on X, it's 15 people on a platform. Or maybe it's more than 15 people, but it's 15 people on a platform. Then it becomes 150 people talking about those 15 people. And yes, then it will generate some type of article. Ignore it. Don't give them a statement or say, we're not. Comment like we're standing by what we did. We're not commenting on it. Don't get involved. Just stop. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Let people wear themselves out like toddlers at the park who didn't want to take a nap. And then you let them run around, and then they're ready for their nap. Let us do that. That, like, I. I will do that. Let me run around. I'll be ready for my nap after you let me talk about how crazy the reaction is. Just let it pass. Let it go. This lesson could have been learned. This lesson could have been ingrained into the brains of everybody 10 years ago, but they were disproportionately responsive to the social media discourse because they had. I mean, genuinely, it's no fun to see, you know, social media controversies bubbling up. It's easy to mistake that as being representative of some broader public re. Although, when you do the math, the slice of the population that is active every day on Twitter is very, very small. We're talking like 10 to 15% at least, last time I checked, which was several years ago. So it may be a little smaller, a little bigger now, but it's not most of the population. A lot of people are on TikTok, that's for sure. But this, A lot of this happened before TikTok even existed. And it just created this template that corporations started following. And the other reason, of course, is that they had had, like, employees, millennial employees. Who agreed with the mobs. And those employees were saying, we have to do better. We need to change our outreach for this identity group. And that identity group, when you put out a statement. And now we need to make amends. And it was all a fever dream. Now I don't think it's going for good. That's my prediction. I don't think it's gone for good. But when it crops back up again, we can look back on this example of the chief marketing officer of American Eagle. I probably said American Idol at one point. I always, in my head, I just roll right into, like, American Eagle, American Idol. Same era in my life. So you have to forgive me for that. But we can look back fondly on this video and say, this man knew this man had it right. All right. Okay. Before we leave for the evening, I want to go behind the scenes of the Megyn Kelly line live tour. If the show is coming near you, Megan Kelly.com those where you can get the tickets. It was seriously so much fun to do a live taping in front of a massive crowd at the beautiful, beautiful theater in San Antonio that we were at the Majestic. I mean, that is an incredible shout out to San Antonio for having gorgeous architecture, period. I mean, the art deco, I didn't realize was such a prominent feature of downtown San Antonio. Incredible, beautiful, beautiful city, beautiful theater. And even just at the meet and greet, speaking to all of you, you're so kind. I mean, you're so kind. You're so decent. You're so normal. And I just. Yeah, I know Megan said something to this effect, but it was just refreshing, really, to spend some time with people who listen. I mean, that means the world. It's like, that's everything. If you do what I do and what all of us do and people who care. Just a wonderful, wonderful crowd. And I appreciate it so much. It was amazing to finally meet Glenn. And of course, the first thing I said to Megan, we were all talking to each other. I was like, megan, Glenn has legs. This is us with Allison from Megan's team. Allison is amazing. I'm happy to announce announced that we did shut down the bar that night. This is actually in my green room because Glenn's green room had two floral patterned Victorian chairs and a piano. And Glenn refused to play the piano for us. The great Glenn Greenwald would not play the piano. I wasn't going to play the piano. So we were hanging out in my green room for a long time, just shooting the breeze. And that was a blast. It was so good. Also to see a bunch of people from Mexico, Megan's team. There's some overlap, as you can imagine, and just everyone does a lot of the work remotely. So to be all in the same place, catching up, talking about things after the show, like I said, closing down the bar, I felt a lot of pressure to close down the bar. As the host of After Party, like I told Megan, I felt contractually obligated to go to the literal after party. Also, the wonderful hair makeup artist. The makeup artist had done my makeup long before the show and gave me a little vial, which was like a lipstick replacement. All the years I've never. I've gotten hair and makeup. I've never seen that before. But I was walking around making this, like, completely inappropriate jokes about how it looked like I was carrying a little vial of, you know, drugs. And so again, more of me just being completely inappropriate at the after Party. But actually, I'm allowed to because I was the host. You can't question the party habits of the host of After Party, trust me. There was carne asada, too. I didn't get a chance to eat any, but it smelled really, really good. Just a. Just a fun time all around. And I can't say enough about what Megan's kind of words meant to me. I think we have a picture of the black and. Yeah, this was. This was me watching Megan talk from backstage, which was amazing to sort of peer over at the crowd. And this is a picture of my friend Spencer Brown. He's been on the show. Took of me coming out, Meg giving me a nice hug. It was just really, really special. It was a really special moment for me professionally. Definitely a career highlight to be there with all of you, to be there with Megan and Glenn, who are two of the journalists that I admire more than anything. Like, I was just such a. The odd man out in that pairing. But to learn from those guys, man, that's. To just listen to them and soak up their wisdom, their experiences. Glenn talking about a Snowden reporting that's over on Megan's channel right now is just truly a really fantastic experience. So if you have an opportunity to go see Megan, I'm telling you, you should do it. The energy, Megan, starting with Q and A, that was super cool. Just. Just impromptu. Going back and forth with you guys, I thought that was the coolest thing ever. It set the tone for a really intimate conversation just across the board. So if you have a chance to go see Megan, definitely do it. Megan, Kelly.com is where you can get the tickets and you can reach me, of [e-mail] Send us your questions for Happy Happy Hour. I'm having so much fun with that. It comes out every Friday. You can shoot us [e-mail] or on the Instagram at afterparty. Emily, thanks so much for tuning in. We'll be back here on Wednesday with more. With my job, I can't drink during the week.

[Andrew Clavin]

Weekends are a different story.

[Emily]

After 88 hours of this, I have earned my wine. You know what I'm saying? My family is a lot. It takes me four beers just to.

[Andrew Clavin]

Hang out with them. Binge drinking isn't all college kids doing cake stands? Oregonians in their 30s and 40s binge drink at close to the same rates as younger people, raising our risk for long term health problems. [e-mail] An OHA initiative.

[Emily]

Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Sriracha sounds pretty spicy to me. Um, a little spicy, but also tangy and sweet. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat. Or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha spicy but not too spicy.