Siula Grande: Over the Edge | Long Way Down | 2

Summary

Against The Odds – Siula Grande: Over the Edge | Long Way Down | 2

Podcast: Against The Odds (Wondery)
Hosts: Cassie De Pecol & Mike Corey
Date: September 9, 2025
Episode Synopsis:
The second installment of a three-part series recounts the harrowing true survival story of British mountaineers Joe Simpson and Simon Yates. After achieving their dream of summiting Siula Grande in the Peruvian Andes, a catastrophic fall leaves Joe with a grievously broken leg, triggering an epic descent fraught with agony, impossible choices, and the rawest calculations of life and death. This episode immerses the listener in the physical and psychological extremes of alpine survival, revealing not only the brutality of the mountain, but the resilience, guilt, and willpower required to survive.

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Main Theme

This episode explores the desperate struggle for survival following a devastating injury high on Siula Grande. The narrative focuses on decision-making in life-or-death situations, the bonds and burdens of partnership in the mountains, and the unfiltered extremes of hope, despair, and endurance when disaster strikes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catastrophe on Descent: Joe Breaks His Leg ([00:09] – [04:42])

• The story starts as Simon Yates and Joe Simpson begin their descent, low on supplies, mentally and physically depleted.
• Disaster strikes (01:00): Joe falls and shatters his knee, revealing to both men the sheer hopelessness of the situation.
• The atmosphere is tense and fatalistic: "They both knew it. He's a dead man." – Cassie De Pecol ([01:35])

2. The Calculation of Survival ([04:42] – [06:52])

• Simon internally debates leaving Joe, knowing helping him may kill them both. The “cold, brutal math of survival” becomes inescapable.
• Despite Simon’s resignation, Joe continues to move, even considering jumping to his death but refuses, driven by habit and an instinctual will to live.

3. Unspoken Fears and the Improbable Plan ([06:52] – [10:58])

• Both men avoid discussing the truth of Joe’s condition, fearing confrontation will lead to abandonment.
• They finally stop pretending. Joe asks directly: "Let's be real. I'm not going to be able to get myself down. Not like this. Not at this pace." ([08:26])
• A plan is hatched for Simon to lower Joe in stages using two ropes tied together, a method fraught with technical and physical risk.

Notable Quote:
"Do you think you can hold my weight in the snow?" – Joe Simpson ([09:33])
"If I dig a bucket seat, I should be able to." – Simon Yates ([09:35])

4. The Descent: Hope Amidst Agony ([10:28] – [16:35])

• System established: Simon digs a “bucket seat” and lowers Joe 300 feet at a time.
• Extreme danger persists, especially when the knot between ropes must be managed, forcing Joe to precariously balance his weight on one leg.
• Despite everything, a fragile optimism begins to take root when they spot what looks like a clear route back (“Death has been downgraded from inevitable to possible.” – Cassie De Pecol, [13:08]).

Memorable Exchange:
"Good thing I didn't break both my legs." – Joe Simpson, joking darkly about his predicament ([11:06])

5. Disaster and the Impossible Choice ([16:35] – [22:58])

• A whiteout storm descends; Simon’s hands are blackened with frostbite, Joe’s pain reaches an apex.
• Suddenly, Simon realizes Joe has gone over a cliff: "He must have lowered Joe over a cliff." – Cassie De Pecol ([17:53])
• Simon becomes anchored only by a rapidly deteriorating snow seat, the full weight of Joe threatening to pull both men to their deaths.
• In agony and without options, Simon recalls his knife. He cuts the rope, a survival act both desperate and logical.

Dramatic Moment:
"The blade touches the line and the rope explodes. Simon is hurled backward by the sudden release..." – Cassie De Pecol ([27:07])

6. The Fall and the Ledge ([20:13] – [29:34])

• Joe, dropped into the abyss, crashes through the crevasse roof, landing on a narrow ice ledge, shocked to be alive:
  "I'm alive. Well, fuck me." – Joe Simpson ([28:24])
• Joe’s relief is swiftly replaced by despair; he realizes Simon cut the rope but feels gratitude, deducing Simon may still be alive too.

7. Aftermath: Night Alone in the Crevasse ([29:34] – [34:56])

• Joe's emotional breakdown, isolation, and fear dominate his time on the ledge.
• Simon, above, is emotionally numb but ultimately proud of his act of survival:

"He did everything he could. A lot of people would have died not having the inner strength to do what he did." – Cassie De Pecol paraphrasing Simon’s internal monologue ([33:35])

8. Dawn: Facing the Void and Choosing to Go On ([34:56] – [44:29])

• Joe, shivering and exhausted, recognizes Simon won’t return, and considers his atheism, rejecting the comfort of prayer.
• He descends deeper into the crevasse, expecting a tomb—but discovers, miraculously, a snow floor and a shaft of sunlight:
  "Now he has something to fight for. He can keep going, keep climbing until he escapes this tomb of ice and snow." – Cassie De Pecol ([44:00])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The impossible conundrum:
  "If I try to get him down, I could die. If I leave him, I live." – Cassie De Pecol, explaining Simon's dilemma ([02:00])
• Dark humor in crisis:
  "Good thing I didn’t break both my legs.” – Joe Simpson ([11:06])
• The moment of the cut:
  "He leans forward and brings it to the rope. With this much tension, it won't take much. The blade touches the line and the rope explodes." – Cassie De Pecol ([27:01])
• Relief after the fall:
  “I’m alive. Well, fuck me.” – Joe Simpson ([28:24])
• Ultimate realization:
  "Now he has something to fight for...if he’s going to die, he wants to do it in the sunlight." – Cassie De Pecol ([44:08])

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:09 – 04:42: Breakdown of the accident and dire circumstances
• 06:52 – 10:28: Unspoken tension and development of the lowering plan
• 13:02 – 16:35: Temporary optimism, then the slope becomes treacherous
• 16:40 – 22:58: The catastrophe—Joe lowered over a cliff, Simon forced to cut the rope
• 28:24: Joe's moment of stunned relief at surviving the fall
• 32:00 – 33:53: Simon's rationalization of cutting the rope and night alone
• 38:49 – 44:29: The morning after and Joe’s final, improbable escape from the crevasse

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Tone & Language

Maintaining a raw, immersive narrative style, this episode confronts the listener with the emotional realities of lethal decision-making, the pain of survival guilt, and the existential questions posed when survival becomes uncertain. Conversations are rendered with a mix of gritty directness and understated black humor—the voices of Simpson and Yates are haunted, pragmatic, and laced with both desperation and flickering, hard-earned hope.

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Conclusion

This episode chronicles one of mountaineering’s most legendary survival stories with visceral intensity. It grapples with the nature of impossible choices, the edge of human endurance, and the stubborn will to keep moving forward—even when death seems certain. With vivid reenactment and heart-rending internal dialogue, the story leaves the listener both awed and shaken by the human spirit “against the odds.”
[Continues in Part 3]

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Wondery subscribers can listen to against the Odds early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Cassie Depechel]

A listener Note against the Odds uses dramatizations that are based on true events. Some elements, including dialogue, may be invented, but everything is based on research. This episode contains explicit language Simon Yates crouches in the snow at the base of the cliff, untangling the ropes he just used to rappel down. He's taking his time. He needs a moment to process the situation, to think. Everything happened so fast. Joe is lying in the snow nearby. He broke his leg just a few minutes ago trying to climb down. His right knee is swollen and twisted in an obvious way. Simon doesn't know what to say to him. They still have 4,000ft to get down, and they both know the score. It's 1pm On June 8, 1985, their fourth day on the mountain. They didn't make much progress on their descent yesterday and had to spend yet another night in a Snow Cave at 20,000ft. They ate the last of their food and this morning they ran out of gas for the stove so they can't melt any more snow for drinking water. But they weren't too worried. They thought they'd be down soon. But then everything changed. Simon was trailing behind Joe when the rope snapped tight, yanking him into the slope. When he got up and followed the rope down, he found Joe lying here at the base of a 25 foot cliff. Joe told him he'd broken his leg. His voice was calm, but the fear in his eyes said it all. They both knew it. He's a dead man. Simon takes a deep breath as he finishes coiling the ropes. Then he glances over his shoulder and is stunned. Joe is upright, or at least moving. He's hopping away around a rise in the ridge, using his ice axes like crutches. Every moment looks agonizing and terrifying. He's shuffling sideways along the edge of a 4,000 foot drop with nothing anchoring him to the mountain. Simon watches, half expecting Joe to fall at any moment, and the truth is, part of him hopes he does. Then it'll be out of his hands. Because if Joe doesn't fall, Simon doesn't know what he'll do. He can't carry him, he can't drag him. But how can he possibly leave him? Simon is confident he can get himself down, but if he stays with Joe, there's a good chance he'll die too, and that would be pointless, just a waste. Waves of panic and guilt rise in his chest as he runs the numbers, the cold, brutal math of survival. If I try to get him down, I could die. If I leave him live. Simon doesn't want to make such an impossible decision, but deep down he knows he's going to have to.

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[Cassie Depechel]

From wondery. I'm Cassie Depechel and this is against the odds. In June 1985, two British mountaineers, 24 year old Joe Simpson and 21 year old Simon Yates, set out to climb Siola Grande, a towering 21,000 foot peak in the Peruvian Andes. Their goal was ambitious to become the first people to ever scale its daunting west face. For two and a half brutal days, they battled falling rock, brittle ice and unstable snow as they painstakingly worked their way up the forbidding wall. Incredibly, they achieved their goal and reached the summit. But their triumph would be short lived. Not long after they started down, Joe fell and shattered his knee, leaving Simon with an agonizing choice Risk his own life by trying to help him or leave him to die. This is episode two Long Way Down Joe Simpson hops sideways on one leg, gritting his teeth against the pain as he contours around a small rise in the ridge. Progress is slow and exhausting, but he's laser focused on each movement. So focused it blocks out most of the pain and panic. He's inching along the edge of the east face. A single slip would send him plummeting 4,000ft. And yet he's not afraid. Not really. He actually thinks about jumping, just flinging himself off the side. It almost seems like the rational thing to do. He knows he's done for. Simon will leave him and he'll die alone. So why not make it quick? But instead, Joe keeps moving. Maybe just out of habit, he's found a rhythm. Hop, plant the axes. Swing the broken leg. Shuffle sideways, repeat. Suddenly, out of nowhere, Simon appears beside him.

[Joe Simpson]

I'm going to check what's around the corner.

[Cassie Depechel]

He climbs past, stamping out a path in the snow for Joe to follow. But still, Simon doesn't say a word about his shattered leg. The unspoken issue hanging heavy between them. Joe understands there's nothing really to say. They both know he's not going to make it. And Simon can get down on his own. This is just stalling. Simon's probably just lingering a little longer before he makes the call. For the next two hours, they carry on like nothing's happened. Simon leads the way, breaking trail, while Joe hops behind. They avoid the subject completely. No talk of what's next. Joe's terrified that if he asks for help, Simon might leave him right then and there. So he says nothing. He just focuses on his movements. Plant, swing, shuffle. Finally, as Joe makes it around the rise, he catches up to Simon, who's sitting on the ridge up ahead, looking down the other side. Simon turns toward him and flashes a nervous smile.

[Joe Simpson]

I can see the call.

[Cassie Depechel]

Joe's heart leaps with excitement. He tries to keep his voice steady.

[Joe Simpson]

Is the slope straight down? Pretty much.

[Cassie Depechel]

Joe keeps moving toward him. Plant, swing, shuffle. But now he's trembling. He doesn't want to get his hopes up, but he wants to believe he might actually have a chance. When he finally reaches Simon, he slumps into the snow beside him. Simon places a hand on his shoulder. How are you doing? It's better. Still painful. But Joe stops. He can't take it any longer. He needs to know what Simon's thinking. Because without his help, Joe knows this is where it ends. But he also knows what a big risk Simon would be taking if he agrees. Joe doesn't want to pressure him or make him feel guilty for saying no. So he decides to give him an out. A chance to walk away. Let's be real. I'm not going to be able to get myself down. Not like this. Not at this pace. Simon doesn't respond. He doesn't even look at him. He just starts quietly untying the rope from his harness. Joe follows his gaze down toward the call about 600ft below. It's all downhill from here. He starts calculating the angles in his mind what exactly it would take. Then he looks at Simon and asks him straight up, do you think you can hold my weight in the snow? Simon nods slowly. If I dig a bucket seat, I should be able to. Joe's heart is racing.

[Joe Simpson]

Okay.

[Cassie Depechel]

I think it'll be quicker if you lower me on two ropes tied together. Simon nods again, already turning to dig out a hole in the snow where he can anchor himself. Joe reaches for the ropes and starts tying them together. And just like that, they have a plan. Simon sits in a deep trench he's carved into the slope, his bucket seat with his legs braced firmly against the snow below. Joe lies on his chest, feet pointed down. With his axes at the ready, the rope between them stretches taut. Simon grips the belay plate, a friction device that allows him to control the speed of the descent.

[Joe Simpson]

You ready, Joe? Yeah. Take it slow and steady.

[Cassie Depechel]

They've knotted two 150 foot ropes together, one end tied to Joe, the other to Simon's harness, creating a single 300 foot line. It'll cut the number of bucket seats they'll need to make in half. The only issue is the knot at the midpoint. When it reaches Simon's belay plate, he'll need to create slack, remove the rope and reattach it on the other side of the knot. Joe will have to take his weight off briefly and stand on one leg while Simon does so.

[Joe Simpson]

When it's time to turn the knot over, I'll give three tugs, then you take your weight off. Okay?

[Cassie Depechel]

Jo cracks a wry smile.

[Joe Simpson]

Good thing I didn't break both my legs.

[Cassie Depechel]

Simon leans back and begins to lower him, smooth and steady. Soon Joe is a distant blue dot on the slope below. Simon exhales. It's working. Joe might actually have a chance. Simon couldn't bring himself to leave him, not while he was still fighting. Maybe it's reckless, maybe it'll kill them both. But he has to try. The knot soon reaches the belay plate. Simon gives three sharp tugs and a moment later, the rope goes slack. Joe's taken his weight off. Simon moves quickly. He knows this is when they're most vulnerable. If Joe falls now, he'll drop a full rope's length and the sudden violent jolt would rip Simon out of his seat and send them both flying off the mountain. Within seconds, he rethreads the rope and gives it three more tugs. The rope tightens. Joe is moving. A few minutes later, the second rope runs out. Once the tension lifts, Simon turns to face the slope, kicks his crampons in and climbs down to join him. After lowering Joe twice more, they finally reach the call. It's windy and exposed, but for the first time they can clearly see the path home. The glacier they walked up five days ago lies directly beneath them, 3,000ft below, curving away toward the rock fields that lead back to base camp. The only thing threatening their rising hope is the weather. It's now 4pm the temperature's dropping and heavy clouds are moving in fast. They won't reach the glacier before dark, but the way down looks pretty straightforward. Simon turns to Joe.

[Joe Simpson]

I think we should keep going. Will you be alright?

[Cassie Depechel]

Joe nods firmly. Yes. Let's keep moving. I'm freezing.

[Joe Simpson]

Okay. Good. At this rate, we should be down in five hours. I sure hope so.

[Cassie Depechel]

As they start down again, Simon feels a surge of cautious optimism. Maybe, just maybe, they'll pull this off. Joe slides downward, concentrating hard on keeping his broken right leg clear of the snow. It's dark. He can't see much, but it doesn't matter. His mood has shifted from destroyed to a fragile optimism. They've developed an efficient system and are moving at a good pace. Death has been downgraded from inevitable to possible. The partnership is back on. Once climbing partners, now rescue partners. It had all felt uncertain at first, but once they started acting decisively, things began to click. Suddenly, the slope gets steeper. Joe feels the pull. He's accelerating, sliding faster than his right boot. Rigid with a crampon, can't help but snag in the snow. Each twist of his shattered knee sends electric jolts of pain up his thigh.

[Joe Simpson]

Stop.

[Cassie Depechel]

He yells for Simon to stop, but his voice is swallowed by the wind. Finally, the slope eases and he slows to a halt. Then three tugs the signal. They've hit the end of another 300ft of rope. Joe hacks into the slope with an axe, grits his teeth and forces himself up onto his good leg. He returns three tugs to confirm. A few minutes later, Simon's headlamp cuts through the swirling snow. A storm has now descended in full force, whipping powder in every direction. How's the leg? Joe forces a smile. He's in pain, but it's obvious Simon is wrecked. The exhaustion is written all over his face. So Joe plays down his own suffering. Not too bad. How are your hands?

[Joe Simpson]

Frostbitten. My fingers are turning black. But hey, we're not far now.

[Cassie Depechel]

Jo squints through the whiteout, trying to make out the slope below. I don't know if it's a good.

[Joe Simpson]

Idea for us to keep going when we can't see what's down there.

[Cassie Depechel]

Could be anything.

[Joe Simpson]

A rock wall or an ice fall. I know, but I don't remember seeing anything major.

[Cassie Depechel]

Do you? Joe thinks back to their training climbs. No, maybe just some scattered rocks. But still. Maybe we should stop for the night. Get some rest. Simon shakes his head.

[Joe Simpson]

It's more dangerous to stay here. We've got no gas, no water. If the storm keeps up, we could be trapped.

[Cassie Depechel]

Joe nods. It's clear. They don't have a choice. They have to keep moving. Simon settles into his latest bucket seat and braces to lower Joe once again. After hours of this, the routine has become almost second nature. Lower. Regroup. Dig. Repeat. Despite the whiteout conditions and brutal cold, they've kept a steady pace. Simon has lowered Joe More than 3,000ft, 300ft at a time. And now, finally, they're almost down the mountain. He looks at Joe lying on the slope just beneath him, and grins.

[Joe Simpson]

Two more lower downs at most. We'll be on the glacier within the hour.

[Cassie Depechel]

Joe flashes him a quick smile, then disappears from the beam of Simon's headlamp into the darkness below. Simon shifts his weight and flexes his fingers. Forefinger tips are black with frostbite. His right thumb is completely numb, can't really feel the rope, but somehow he's still managing to control the belay. Then the pole on his harness tightens. Simon instinctively leans back, digging his feet in deeper. The slope must be steepening again. He knows Joe's leg must be taking a beating, but he has to let the rope run faster to ease the the strain on his own body. But then suddenly he's yanked forward from the waist, nearly out of his seat. He throws his weight back, bracing his legs as hard as he can, and lets the rope slide slowly to a stop before locking off the belay. Christ, Joe's fallen, he thinks. Simon holds steady, his heart pounding as the rope pulls between his legs, threatening to drag him down. He stares at the rope, willing it to go slack, but nothing. No shift. Joe isn't taking his weight off the harness, bites deeper into Simon's hips. His legs are going numb. He doesn't understand. Why hasn't Joe found a foothold? Why isn't he trying to climb up? Then it hits him. He must have lowered Joe over a cliff. Simon holds his position as the seat beneath him starts to crumble bit by bit. There's no way he can haul Joe back up, and he knows he won't be able to hold him much longer. If Joe can't get his weight off the rope soon, they're both going to die.

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[Cassie Depechel]

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[Joe Simpson]

You destroyed our tap.

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[Cassie Depechel]

We call things accidents. There is no accident. This was 100% preventable.

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[Cassie Depechel]

Joe Simpson dangles like a marionette, confused and disoriented. It takes him a moment to register what's happened. He's no longer on the slope, but suspended in midair. He shines his headlamp upward and follows the rope until it disappears over a steep overhang about 15ft above. Then he looks down and a wave of dread grips his chest. There's nothing, just far below the shadowy mouth of a gaping crevasse. It doesn't seem real. Just moments ago, he was feeling hopeful while Simon steadily lowered him down the slope. For the first time since the accident, it hadn't felt like a death desperate fight. He actually believed he was going to make it. But then the slope steepened and he started sliding fast. He tried to jam his axes into the snow. But they wouldn't bite. He cried out, and the next thing he knew, his feet were in the air. And then his whole body swung off the edge. He kept descending for a few seconds before coming to a stop. Now panic floods his chest. He knows Simon is up there, still holding his weight from the bucket seat. And if nothing changes, soon, they'll both be ripped off the mountain. Joe grips the rope, steadies himself into a seated position and shines his headlamp toward the wall. It's solid ice, maybe six feet away. He swings toward it, stretching out an axe. But it's just out of reach. He tries again, harder. If he could just reach it. Just plant one pick. Suddenly he jerks down a few inches. He whips his head back toward the wall and gasps. Simon is lowering him again.

[Joe Simpson]

No.

[Cassie Depechel]

No.

[Joe Simpson]

Stop.

[Cassie Depechel]

Joe screams up into the storm. Simon has no idea what he's gone over. He must be feeding out the rest of the rope, hoping he'll hit solid ground before the knot comes up. But there is no ground. Joe grips the rope tighter and screams again.

[Joe Simpson]

Stop. There's nothing. Stop.

[Cassie Depechel]

But his voice vanishes into the wind and he drops deeper into the abyss. Simon Yates slowly feeds out the rope through his frozen fingers. 5, 10, 15ft. Lowering Joe is his only option. With every foot lower, he desperately hopes Joe will find solid ground. The toe. Hold. Anything. Come on, please.

[Joe Simpson]

Find something.

[Cassie Depechel]

But nothing changes. No slack. Just the same brutal tension. And then he sees the knot. The end of the rope. It's coming up fast. But Joe is still down there, somewhere in the dark, hanging. He has to face the truth. There's nothing more he can do for Joe. There's no rope left to feed out and no way to get around the knot without taking Joe's full weight in his hands, which is out of the question. They're stuck in a stalemate. Simon looks down between his legs. The seat he dug, his only anchor, is now half its original size. He stamps his feet into the crumbling snow, trying to pack it down, but it barely helps. He knows what's next. He's going to be dragged off the mountain. Joe looks down and sees the crevasse clearly now, about 50ft below. It's massive, stretching along the entire base of the ice cliff. A roof of snow covers most of it, but one collapsed section reveals the black void beneath. A gaping open mouth into the abyss above him. He can no longer see the edge of the cliff, just the rope vanishing up into the whiteout. He stops shouting. He knows Simon is also stuck, unable to do anything but hold on. At some point the strain will become too much. He'll be pulled from his seat and they'll both go down together. Joe is freezing, exhausted, weak, almost too tired to care, too tired to fight. There's no way out of this slow, suspended death. His thoughts turn back to Simon. He shouldn't have to die because of his broken leg. Joe's sadness boils into rage. After all the pain, all the effort, this is how it ends. On the last bloody lowering, Joe screams, hurling obscenities into the wind. He cries for himself and for Simon. It was his fall, his knee, his fault. Simon shouldn't have to die too. Simon should have left him back on the ridge. Suddenly the rope jerks and he bounces down a few more inches. Crumbs of snow and ice rain down on him. Then another slip. His breath catches. Oh God, this is it. Simon will be coming down any moment now. Joe lets his body go slack and waits for it to happen. Simon hunches low in his disintegrating bucket seat, straining with everything he has left. Every muscle in his body is burning. Inch by inch, he's being pulled down the slope. He doesn't know exactly how far he'll fall, but he's fairly certain he will die. Then, like a jolt, he remembers the knife. It's in his pack. He doesn't hesitate. Keeping the rope pinned across his thigh, he slips one arm out of his shoulder strap, then the other. He yanks off his right glove with his teeth and fumbles into the bag until his half numb hand find something smooth. The red plastic handle of his Swiss army knife. The decision's already made. He opens the blade with his teeth, the cold metal tearing at his limbs. Then he leans forward and brings it to the rope. With this much tension, it won't take much. The blade touches the line and the rope explodes. Simon is hurled backward by the sudden release and lands hard against the snow. He just lies there, stunned, shaking, gasping for breath. He's alive. And for now that's all he can think about. Joe is free, falling silently, endlessly. This is it. Then he crashes through the roof of the cravat. Chunks of snow explode around him. He plunges deeper and time seems to slow. Everything goes quiet, like a dream. Then another brutal impact. He slams hard onto his back, knocking the wind out of him. He sees flashes of white. Am I dead? He's sprawled out flat, barely contacted, with a crushing weight pressing down on his chest. He can't breathe. Then a rush of air. His chest spasms. Then heaves. He's breathing again, and with it, searing pain. His leg is on fire. No, I couldn't feel this if I were dead, he thinks. He lies there, stunned, staring into the darkness. Then he bursts out laughing, almost maniacally.

[Joe Simpson]

I'm alive. Well, fuck me.

[Cassie Depechel]

He sobs and laughs all at once. Then the question hits him. What broke his fall? He's jammed against a steep slope. With his left arm he can feel solid ice. But his right arm, it's dangling into open space. He realizes he's on a narrow ledge barely wide enough to hold him. He can hardly believe it. Two feet to the right and he would have fallen into the abyss. He turns his headlamp around. Walls of blue ice rise in every direction. With shaking hands, he fumbles for his hammer and his last remaining ice screw. He tries not to move too much as he awkwardly drives the screw into the screen slope and clips himself in. He's safe for now. He angles the beam upward. The rope hangs in a gentle arc, trailing from the roof he smashed through 50ft above. He must have dropped about 100ft. He calls out.

[Joe Simpson]

Simon.

[Cassie Depechel]

His voice echoes through the cavern. He waits. Nothing. Simon must be dead. Swept off the ridge, clear of the crevasse, he thinks. No, he can't be dead. Not after I survived. Joe yells again, louder, but just hears his own echo. He pulls on the rope. It moves easily. He keeps pulling, expecting it to come taut. Maybe Simon's body will act as a counterweight. Then maybe he could climb back up. But the rope keeps coming, hand over hand until the end slides into his lap. He draws it close under his headlamp and his eyes go wide. It's frayed. Simon cut the rope. Joe stares at the loose threads of white and pink nylon. Then a single clear thought enters his mind. Thank Christ Simon's alive. Because if Simon's still alive, then maybe he still has a chance. He shouts again.

[Joe Simpson]

Simon.

[Cassie Depechel]

But still no answer. Tears of frustration come fast. Joe breaks down, sobbing uncontrollably, like a small child. He thought he'd be tougher than this. His father is a military man, and so was his grandfather. He was raised to believe boys don't cry. But now he feels completely helpless, physically and psychologically shattered. He cries and cries and doesn't stop. Simon sits up in the snow and stares down at the frayed end of the the rope, limp and lifeless where it spills from his belay plate. There's no tension anymore, no weight, no Joe. Had he killed him? Simon doesn't answer the thought, even though a quiet voice in the back of his head is already telling him he has. He's freezing, in shock, numb inside and out. He stares blankly into the snow whipping past, wondering what happened to his friend. He's tempted to call Joe's name, but it would be useless. The wind would just carry it away. Simon shivers, alone in the storm. It's dangerously cold right now. He has no choice but to put Joe out of his mind. At least till morning. He has to save himself. He turns back into the slope and begins digging out the snow from his crumbled bucket seat. He feels strange, disconnected, almost unemotional about what just happened, as if he's watching himself from far away. But occasionally the thought creeps in. Could Joe still be alive? He has no idea what Joe fell over. Maybe the drop wasn't far. Maybe he survived. But something in his gut says no. When the snow cave is finished, Simon crawls into his sleeping bag and blocks the entrance with his backpack to shield himself from the wind. He lies there in the darkness and tries to sleep, but his thoughts keep circling. What happened to Joe? He replays everything again and again, the final seconds. He examines every detail, questions every move he made. He expects to feel guilt, but to his surprise, he feels the opposite. He feels proud of himself that he had the courage to cut the rope, that he kept it together right up until the final moment. He did everything he could. A lot of people would have died not having the inner strength to do what he did. At last his mind begins to slow as he drifts off to sleep. He keeps telling himself it was necessary. It was right.

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[Cassie Depechel]

Joe Simpson lies helpless on the narrow ledge, terrified and trembling inside the dark cave of ice. He's never felt so alone or so frightened. It's the early hours of June 9th. Five days since they left base camp, and he's just endured the most demoralizing night of his life. Drifting in and out of consciousness, consumed by dark thoughts. The irony of surviving a 100 foot fall is almost unbearable. Joe knows he won't die from the broken leg, not immediately. But it's only a matter of time. Tears well up again. He's 24, fit, ambitious. This was never part of the plan. Stupid, stupid, stupid. He looks down at his injured leg in the gloom. If it weren't for the searing pain, it would feel like a foreign object. Then he realizes he can see his leg. He checks his watch. 5am There's a faint glow filtering into the crevasse. It'll be light soon, which means Simon will be coming down the cliff. Like him, Simon will be desperate for water. He'd leave at first light. Maybe he's already on his way to look for me, Joe thinks. He cups his hands and yells, simon. He keeps calling every five minutes, over and over. Simon Yates opens his eyes at first light, full of dread after a tortured, restless night. He's so thirsty. He can smell the moisture and the snow around him. It's been nearly 24 hours since he last drank anything. He has to get down. He needs water. He needs to get back to base camp. But he's overwhelmed by a sense of menace, a gnawing feeling that he won't make it. It wouldn't be right for him to survive. Joe is dead, and it feels like some kind of retribution is coming for him. The mountains took Joe. They'll take me too, he thinks. Still, he can't just sit here feeling sorry for himself. He has no expectation of making it. But he may as well get on with it, if only to keep some dignity. He crawls out of his snow cave, then coils up the remaining rope, tightens his crampons and begins the descent. The sun is out. The sky is clear. There's no wind. Weather wise, it's a perfect day. He moves slowly with the weight of resignation, like a man walking to his own funeral. Soon he reaches the edge of the ice cliff where he lowered Joe over. He peers down about 100ft. He's stunned. He never expected the drop to be so steep and far. He searches the glacier below for any signs of. Of life. There's nothing. He moves along the cliff edge until it shallows out and merges with the slope. The soft snow gives way to hard ice. Simon hammers in an ice screw and using the leftover half of rope, begins rappelling down. As he descends, the cliff wall gradually reveals itself. He can see under the steep overhang where he lowered Joe over about halfway down. Simon glances below and shudders. A gigantic black crevasse yawns beneath him. At least 30ft wide. The roof has been smashed in. That's where Joe must have fallen. Into that monstrous, bottomless void. Simon yells into the darkness.

[Joe Simpson]

Joe.

[Cassie Depechel]

He shouts again and again, but only echoes return. The silence confirms what he already knows. Joe is dead down there, swallowed by the mountain. Simon shuts his eyes and presses his forehead against the rope. Guilt and horror wash over him. He sent Joe down there. He tries to steady his breathing, reminding himself, if I hadn't cut the rope, I would have died too. Joe was going to die either way. There was no choice. Finally, his feet hit the snow just 200ft from the glacier. He detaches himself from the rope, looks back up at the cliff and the mountain looming above a cold mass of snow, ice and rock. How foolish we were to pick a fight with that. He thinks for a moment. Simon considers going back up to take one more look, but he knows there's no point. Joe is gone for good. He can't stay here searching for a corpse. He's weak, dehydrated, barely hanging on. He'll be lucky to get himself back to safety. He turns his back on the mountain and begins to the long trek back to base camp. Joe peers down into the black hole on his right and swallows hard. There's no sign of it closing up. It just fades into dark shadows as far down as he can see. The thought terrifies him to the core. But if he can't climb up out of the crevasse, his only option is to go down and see where it leads. Even if it's a dead end. It's 9:30am after yelling out for Simon for several hours, Joe finally accepts it. He's on his own. Simon is not coming back. He must have seen the bottomless black hole Joe fell into. He must think he's dead. Why would he bother to return? Joe was raised Catholic, but he has been an atheist since he was 16. Still, before coming to Peru, he sometimes wondered, if it came down to the crunch, would he call out to God, say, oh, sorry I didn't mean it, I do believe. Now, injured and alone in a crevasse, he has his answer. No. When you die, you die. There's no afterlife Job looks at the ice screw he's clipped into and then winces as he throws the rope over the edge. He hasn't tied a knot at the end. If he gets down there and he's just hanging in space, he'd rather slide off and be done with it. No matter what, he's not coming back up. Joe grips the rope and slithers down into the darkness. 10, 15, 20ft. He has no idea what's below. He's too afraid to even look down. Then, when he's about 50ft below the ice sprue, he suddenly feels his legs swing out into open space. He continues rappelling slowly over the drop, lowering himself inch by inch until he's hanging vertically on the rope. The wall beside him is hard ice. He realizes he's suspended inside a shaft, an open column of ice. Behind him, about 10ft away, there's another wall. He wants to cry. He's paralyzed by fear, but forces himself to keep going. Then, about 80ft down, he finally dares to look below and can hardly believe what he sees. Just 10ft beneath him there's a carpet of snow. A floor. No black void, no bottomless drop. He lets out a cry of relief that echoes through the crevasse. He's reached the bottom. Laughing and yelling, he lowers himself. The final stretch until his feet touch down. He looks around. The crevasse opens up into a vast pear shaped dome. He's awestruck. It's maybe the size of St. Paul's Cathedral, 50ft wide and soaring 130ft overhead. His eyes follow a narrow gap filled with snow that rises all the way to the roof. A single ray of light pours in through a small hole at the top. Joe stares at it, mesmerized. That's his way out. In an instant he's overcome with after absolute certainty he's going to reach that sunbeam. Suddenly he's filled with energy and purpose. The dangers are still real, the risks just as high. But something inside him has shifted. Confidence surges through him. Pride. He'd been right to leave the ledge, right to face his fear. He had done it. Now he has something to fight for. He can keep going, keep climbing until he escapes this tomb of ice and snow. Before he felt only loneliness and terror. Now he has a goal. He doesn't know how he'll get there or how long it'll take. But he knows that if he's going to die, he wants to do it in the sunlight.

[Closing Narrator]

If you like against the odds, you can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery and the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Cassie Depechel]

This is the second episode of our three part series Ciola Grande over the Edge. A quick note about our scenes. In most cases we can't know exactly what was said, but everything is based on historical research. If you'd like to learn more about this story, we recommend the book Touching the Void by Joe Simpson. Our story consultant for this series is Simon Yates. If you'd like to learn more about his adventures in mountaineering, check out his book the Flame of Adventure. Available wherever you get your books. I'm your host Cassie Depechel. Rachel Matlow wrote this episode. Sound design by Ouse Audio. Audio engineer is Sergio Enriquez. Original theme music Scott Velasquez and 2K for freeze on Sing produced by Alida Rosanski. Managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Senior producers are Andy Herman and Rachel Matlow. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Stephanie Jens Marshall, Louie and Erin o'. Flaherty. For Wondering.