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Wondery subscribers can listen to against the Odds early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. A Listener Note against the Odds uses dramatizations that are based on true events. Some elements, including dialogue, may be invented, but everything is based on research. This episode contains scenes that depict racist attitudes and language. Please be advised, Sergeant John James of the Buffalo Soldiers steps into the caboose of the evacuation train and holds up his hands to quiet the women and children. Excuse me. I need everyone to take their seats and remain calm. There was a little delay on the bridge ahead, but we'll be moving again in a few moments. James keeps his face calm, hoping to convince them the situation is under control. In reality, though, he's terrified. The wooden bridge ahead spans a hundred foot deep gorge and bridges on fire. There's no way of knowing whether it will collapse when they're halfway across, but it's their only route to safety. It's the morning of August 21, 1910, in Idaho's Coeur d' Alene National Forest. Massive wildfires are ravaging the region and James and his soldiers are evacuating the women and children from the small town of Avery. They're 10 miles outside of town now. After discussing their options, James and the train engineer decided to risk a run across the burning bridge. James scans scans the faces in the caboose and wonders if his words were convincing. A woman fanning herself with a newspaper stands up. Well, if there was a delay because of the bridge, there must be something wrong with it, right? For a moment, James considers telling them the truth. But what if they panic and stampede out the doors? They'll be in even more danger than they are on the train. But before he can decide what to do, he feels the train jerk forward. The woman fanning herself tumbles back onto her seat. James hurries to his own seat and flings himself down, calling out one final command. Stay seated all of you. He feels the train accelerating. The engineer has clearly decided to race across the bridge as fast as possible. The engine sounds like it's really straining. They race forward for 90 seconds. James grips the seat beneath him. Then they reach the bridge. In a flash, they're engulfed by fire on all sides. Flames rush past the windows, casting a lurid orange glow over the terrified passengers. James flashes back to his childhood in Alabama, when the preachers would rail about the fire and brimstone that awaited sinners. This is exactly what he imagined hell would look like. There's no point trying to quiet the screaming women and children. Now even James's soldiers are wailing. The train rattles and shimmies as if the bridge beneath it is breaking apart. James feels himself being tossed side to side. He closes his eyes and he mouths a prayer. But then he feels the train slowing down. He opens his eyes and gasps. The eerie orange light of the flames is gone, replaced by the soft glow of early morning sunlight. They've made it across. He can hardly believe it. He stands up again. We're safe, everyone. Keep drinking water and just try to relax. Still, as James slumps down in his seat, he can't relax himself. He knows they've still got many miles to go before they're safely out of the fire's reach. And he can't help but think of his fellow soldiers back in Avery. The wildfire will soon be bearing down on them, and as James just learned, the only way to escape hell is to go through it. In our toughest moments, humans will fight to survive. But luckily we're not often in survival mode. Sometimes we can just sit back and enjoy the ride. And no one knows a comfortable ride like OnStar. Enjoy convenient features like Google Assistant to make calls or send te on the go. Remember where you parked with vehicle locate and even drive hands free with available super cruise driver Assistant tech with OnStar your rise can be easier than ever. OnStar better never stops. Morning Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me so Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them. T mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch? Dude, my work here is done. The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge Credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier. Canceled finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklib speed test intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com from Wondery I'm Mike Corey and this is In August of 1910, the largest known fire in American history swept through the Idaho Panhandle. It overran teams of firefighters in the Coeur d' Alene National Forest and forced multiple towns to evacuate. A large swath of the town of Wallace burned to the ground. But the fire was hardly done, wreaking havoc. As the second day of the so called big burn dawned. The town of Avery stood directly in its path. There, forest rangers and an all black company from the US army known as the Buffalo Soldiers would make one final stand to save the town. This is episode four Fight Fire with Fire Forest Ranger Ed Pulaski leans against the wall of the mining tunnel and coughs violently. His lungs feel like they're convulsing. He gasps for air, only to start hacking again. Finally, the spasms pass. He draws himself upright and turns to the men standing near the tunnel entrance. Is everyone alive? His men drop their eyes. One of them, a local logger named George, steps forward. We count five dead, sir. Your horse didn't make it either, I'm sorry to say. And also, Percy Stewart is missing. Missing? Yeah. Do you think we should search for him? No, we need to get the rest of the men back to Wallace on foot. A few of these men can barely stand. Why not wait for a rescue crew? For all we know, there is no rescue crew. We could be on our own. I just don't think some of the men can handle it. And Ed, your eyes. Can you even see? Pulaski can see, but barely, and only through one eye. When he tries to open his other eye, the pain is so intense that he squeezes it shut again. Through his one good eye, he can see that his hands are covered in burns. He must look awful. No wonder George thinks he can't make it back. Honestly, Pulaski's not sure he can either. But he knows they have to at least try. Cautiously, Pulaski steps forward. He shakes off George's arm when he reaches out to help. He keeps walking out of the tunnel without using the walls for support. He's got to set an example for his men. For all he knows, Wallace could have been wiped completely off the map, along with his home and his family. But he can't dwell on that now. Better to focus on the march to safety, one painful step at a time. Ed Pulaski grimaces as he plants his feet on the scorched floor of the forest. It was so hot in the tunnel last night that it Burned. The soles off his boots and the ground underfoot is covered with smoldering branches and hot ashes, so every step is agony. He glances up toward the sun and guesses it's just after 8am since leaving the tunnel a few hours ago, they've probably covered about two miles toward Wallace. That means three more to go. Pulaski can still only see a little through one eye. The smoke and ash have damaged his vision, just temporarily, though he hopes. One of his men mixed salt and water and flushed his eyes. The treatment helped, but only some. His vision is still blurry and sensitive to light. It's been a bewildering journey. All of the trails and landmarks he knew so well from 20 years in the mountains have vanished, burned away or buried. He feels disoriented. Then someone calls out that there's a creek nearby. That's good news. It must be the creek at the bottom of the ravine that leads back to Wallace. And all the men are parched and desperate for water. The creek is full of dead fish and partially covered by a scum of ash. But the men are so thirsty that they dip their hats into the cloudy water and raise the brims to their lips to drink. Pulaski is about to join them, but before he can, he hears someone vomit. Then a second man retches. A moment later, another spits and shakes his head. The water tastes bitter, and it stings when it goes down. Pulaski realizes the problem. It's the ash. Everyone stop. Don't drink the water. It's likely toxic. His men groan. But as thirsty as they are, they can't risk getting sicker. The only option is to keep going. And now, at least, they can try to follow the creek. Emma Pulaski hurries through the streets of downtown Wallace. She's headed to the hospital to find her husband, if he's still alive. It's just past 10am on August 21st. After their miserable night in the old mining dump, Emma and her daughter Elsie return to their home to find it miraculously undamaged. But then her neighbor, Mary Henderson, relayed some deb devastating news. A firefighter from Ed's crew had stumbled down from the mountains, and he said that everyone else in the crew had likely perished. Emma was heartbroken. How could she face life without Ed? But before long, new, contradictory rumors started trickling in as other survivors reached town. A few of them claimed to have seen Ed's men alive, but others said his crew was blinded or horribly burned. Emma didn't know what to believe. Finally, she decided to leave Elsie with some neighbors and go to the hospital herself, praying that her husband might be there. Walking through Wallace is like walking through a war zone. On almost every block, Emma sees homes and businesses reduced to rubble. Fire victims stagger past her, some already covered in white bandages streaked with soot. There must be so many of them that the hospital can't keep them. Then Emma stops in her tracks. Coming towards her is another victim, this one with bandages covering his eyes and half of his face. His hands are bandaged, too. A second man is helping him walk. It's impossible to tell for sure because of all the bandages, but Emma thinks she knows who it is. Ed? Ed, is that you? Emma? She rushes up to him and throws her arms around her husband. Oh, Ed, I thought I'd lost you. Not yet. What about Elsie? She's fine. And the house is still standing, too, but. Ed, what's wrong with your eyes? Are you blind? There might be some eye damage. The doctor doesn't know yet. Hearing this stings Emma's heart. She can't imagine Ed blinded, but she pushes the thought away. All that matters is that he's alive. She squeezes him so hard that he starts coughing, but despite his protests, she clutches him even tighter. Lt. Edson Lewis, commanding officer of the Buffalo Soldiers, tosses a nickel ante onto the small pile of coins in front of him. He shuffles a deck of cards, then deals five poker hands to the soldiers sitting on the ground with him. They're outside the Avery train station. A church bell just rang, five in the afternoon. Other troops under Lewis command lie slumped on the ground nearby, taking advantage of a rare afternoon off to catch up on some sleep. Lewis glances down at his cards. He's feeling good about his hand. A pair of sevens and a pair of nines. He drops another nickel in, and two players fold. But Private Roy Greene matches him. Then the men reveal their cards. Greene has three jacks and wins the hand. The private rakes in the pile of coins toward him. Still, Greene doesn't look especially pleased. There's a grim mood hanging over them. The troops have been sitting here since this morning, when they loaded the evacuation train with women and children. Now they're waiting for orders about what to do next. In the meantime, it feels like they're sitting ducks, waiting for the fire to sweep down from the mountains and destroy the town. The poker game is a weak distraction. After a few more hands, Lewis hears the clomping of a horse. He looks up to see a local forest ranger riding toward them. Ralph Debitt Louis stands to greet him. Ranger, Any news? Yes, I'm afraid it's not good. A few telegraph lines in the region still work, and Debit has gotten in touch with some of the other ranger stations. Sure enough, the main body of the fire is now headed toward Avery, and it's moving faster than expected. It'll arrive in town in less than a day, maybe in just a few hours if the wind keeps blowing. Debit levels with Lewis. I think we need to evacuate the whole town. Should we load up another train? The ranger shakes his head no. I've heard that several bridges in the area have collapsed over the past few hours. I'm afraid we won't get very far. I have a different idea. Devitt explains that they can evacuate by way of a nearby river. There's a bend up river where the water's deeper, and there's a clearing that might be large enough to protect the remaining townspeople and soldiers from falling trees. With luck, they can take refuge there. Lewis agrees to join Debitt to scout the area. Lewis orders Roy Greene and a few other soldiers to grab their gear as well. With the fires bearing down on them, they have to move quickly. Private Roy Greene trudges along next to the river, coursing through the unburned forest north of Avery. He's been studying every yard of it, trying to gauge whether there's enough water to protect anyone from the coming fire. So far, he is not optimistic. It looks more like a creek than a proper river, barely ankle deep in places. But the local forest ranger, Ralph Debit, keeps saying that there's a deeper bend up ahead. Debit is on horseback, and Green and his men are on foot. They left town an hour ago, and Greene is getting nervous that time is running short. The fire could reach Avery at any moment. After a few more minutes, Devitt stops his horse and announces that they've reached the bend. Greene removes the pack from his back and wades in to test its depth, but the water barely comes up to his thighs. Behind him, Greene hears Lt. Lewis talking with Debitt. I thought you told me that this was deep. Well, normally it is, but I guess I haven't been up here since the drought started. Private Greene, what do you think? Greene turns toward Lewis and points at the trees that edge the clearing. They're too close, sir. I don't like it. If the fire reaches here, the trees will fall and they'll crush anyone sheltering in the river. Lewis nods. Yeah, I am afraid I agree with Private Green. This won't do we'll take our chances and evacuate on the railroad. Debitt looks unconvinced, but agrees to ride ahead and rally some men to get the railcars ready. He spurs his horse and he takes off. Lewis whistles at Green and the others and orders them to march out. Double time. Green sighs. They've wasted valuable time on this wild goose chase. Now they need to get back to town and prepare everyone to evacuate by train if they're not too late already. Finding the right hire fast can make all the difference for a business. So how do you connect with the best candidates quickly? You use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Indeed doesn't just list your job, it helps it get noticed. With Sponsored Jobs, your post is pushed to the top of search results so qualified candidates can see it right away, even if they're just casually browsing. And it works. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs get 45% more applications than non sponsored Jobs. In fact, while I've been sharing this with you, about 23 hires were made on Indeed worldwide. Plus there are no monthly subscriptions or long term contracts with Sponsored Jobs. You only pay for results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at indeed.comtheodds just go to indeed.comtheodds right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comtheodds Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. On Boxing Day 2018, 20 year old Joy Morgan was last seen at her church, Israel United in Christ or iuic. I just went on my Snapchat and I just see her face plastered everywhere. This is the Missing Sister, the true story of a woman betrayed by those she trusted most. IUIC is my family and like the best family that I've ever had. But IUIC isn't like most churches. This is a devilish cult. You know when you get that feeling where you just I don't want to be here. I want to get out. It's like that feeling of like I want to go hang out. I'm Charlie Brinkcoast Castle and after years of investigating Joy's case, I need to know what really happened to Joy. Binge all episodes of the Missing Sister exclusively and ad free right now on Wondery. Start your free trial of Wondery on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or in the Wondery app. Lt. Edson Lewis feels the train lurch beneath him and calls out above the roar of the engine Everyone drop to the floor. Cover your heads. It's just past 10pm And Lewis and his soldiers, along with several dozen men from Avery, are trying to blast through a fire that's blanketing the tracks 10 miles west of town. Even worse, they're doing it with the only three train cars available. An old locomotive engine car, a box car and an open flat car. There's not enough room for everyone in the box car, so Lewis is huddled with some of the men on the flat car, praying that they won't burn alive. Seconds later, Lewis and his men are surrounded by flames. They leap through the trees on either side of the tracks about 30ft overhead. Too far above to burn them, but close enough for the men to feel the scorching heat. It's terrifying. Then smoke envelops them. The fat, flaming embers rain down, peppering the men. One lands on Lewis's neck and yelps and slaps it. The heat is unbearable. Lewis feels his clothes steaming as if he's being ironed. Thankfully, after a minute, they pass through the fire. The smoke clears and the dark of the night settles on them again. Lewis exhales hard and stands up. I'm proud of all of you for staying calm. Hopefully we're through the worst of it. But before he can sit down, one of the miners from Avery stands up and glares at him. A grizzled fellow with thick black hair and an eye patch. What the hell have you gotten us into? We'd be safer back in town. I understand how nerve wracking that was, I do. But the fire was headed straight for Avery. This is our best chance. The man grumbles something Lewis can't make out, but he sits back down. The train rattles on for another hour. Then Lewis feels the train slowing until it stops altogether. He can practically feel the glare of the miners on him. He hops down from the flat car to check with the engineer, but before he gets to the locomotive, he sees what the problem is. A half mile ahead, the forest surrounding the tracks is ablaze. Flames lick the towering pines, climbing their trunks. The flames are so huge that they seem to leap thousands of feet into the night sky. Lewis checks their more immediate surroundings. Ultimately, they're trying to find a stretch of burned over forest devoid of fuel for the fire. But they've stopped in a dense grove with pine trees clustered right up to the edge of the tracks. There's no way they can stay here. It's a tinderbox Lewis trots up to the locomotive and calls to the engineer, what do you say? Can we make a run through it? The engineer stares back at him, wide eyed. You're kidding, right? We'd have no chance in a fire that big. We have to go back. Back to where there's fire behind us too. Well, there might be a burned over area from that fire by now. If we can find one, we'll just stop there and wait things out. That's the only safe option. Lewis grunts at the word safe. He doubts there's a truly safe spot anywhere within a hundred miles. But the engineer's right. Lewis thanks him and turns back to relay the news to the men in the bockscar, a task that he's dreading. Those men already seem ornery and suspicious, and hearing that there's no way forward surely won't improve their mood. Private Roy Greene pushes at the fallen tree in front of him with all of his mighty. Four of his fellow soldiers do the same, digging their boots into the ground and straining their arms and legs. Its massive trunk is lying across the railroad track and they've got to get it to roll aside as quickly as possible to keep ahead of the fire. It's close to 2am on Aug. 22, a few miles west of Avery. For the past several hours the train with Greene's men has been playing a dangerous game of hide and see seek with the various arms of the wildfire. Every hour or so they shift positions, crisscrossing back and forth across the same 10 mile stretch of track, trying to avoid the most dangerous pockets of fire. So far they've succeeded. But then they encountered several trees lying across the track. A gust of wind must have torn them free from the slope above the track after the train passed by earlier. The uprooted trees also caused several boulders and a mound of dirt to tumble onto the track. All this debris has to be cleared for the train to pass, so Lt. Lewis ordered his men outside. A few passengers from Avery volunteered to help as well. The tree proves tough to move, but Greene's crew finally heaves the trunk far enough to clear the track before starting on the next tree. Greene gives his men a moment to rest, and a moment is all that they get. There's a sudden rumbling like an avalanche. Greene turns in the moonlight to see a rockslide tumbling down the slope. Two men from Avery are right in its path. Their bodies are swallowed in the tidal wave of dirt and stone before the rocks have even settled. Greene and his crew sprint over using their bare hands they start digging out the two men. They pull out one of them, a man with an eyepatch. He's battered and wheezing but still conscious. The other isn't responding. A gash on his head oozes blood, and Greene can find no sign of a pulse. Greene is deeply rattled. It's sheer luck that he's alive and that this man is dead. But there's no time to linger. He orders one soldier to bandage the living man and tells two other soldiers to get the dead body onto the flat car and cover it with a blanket. A moment later, Greene sees his commanding officer, Lieutenant Lewis, hurrying over. Greene explains what happened, then turns to the rockslide. This could take us hours to clear. I agree. And we definitely don't have hours. So what do we do, sir? Lewis looks both ways, up and down the track. He finally just shakes his head like he can't believe what he's about to say. I don't think we're have much of a choice. We'll have to return to Avery and wait out the fires there. Green feels his shoulders sag. He recalls watching Avery recede behind him a few hours ago and how glad he felt to say good riddance to that town forever. Now they're being forced to retreat to it, and who knows what they'll find when they get there. Ranger Bill Weigel removes his hat as he creaks open a storefront door in downtown Wallace. The sight of all the beds makes his throat clench. The store was vacant before, but it's been converted into a hospital for injured firefighters. There are two long rows of 20 beds each. A battered body lies in each one. The men of Ed Pulaski's crew. There are more beds upstairs, with men from other crews overflow from the hospital down the block. Weigel limps down the row of beds. It's just past dawn and most men here are asleep, still exhausted from their harrowing night in the mine tunnel. The few that are awake cast an eye over him. He nods, trying to smile, and offers some words of encouragement. No one answers. Some have their throats bandaged and probably can't speak. Others have vacant eyes like they're not all there. He notices that most of the beds aren't regular hospital beds. They were donated by the citizens of Wallace. The doctors in town ran out of bandages, too, so they've been cutting up old dresses and trousers to bind the men's wounds. Reflexively, Weigel touches his own bandaged neck. He feels lucky to have gotten treatment early, and all things considered, he got off light. Half his hair is missing and patches of his skin are scorched red, but at least he's on his feet. At the end of the row of beds. He winces to see Ed Pulaski with bandages around his eyes. Weigel leans against the wall and he says, hello. How you holding up, Ed? I've been better. What about the other crews? Any news? Weigel decides not to tell Pulaski the truth, that he's lost at least a dozen men and some of his crews remain unaccounted for. Pulaski has enough on his mind already. The ones I heard from are all they're doing okay. We got lucky with Wallace. We lost a third of it and most of downtown, but only two people in town died. That's a miracle right there. He takes Pulaski's soot covered hand. I want to thank you, Ed. Every single man on this floor. They'd be dead without you. Yeah, well, I'm just doing my job, Bill. I know you would have done the same. Weigel feels himself getting choked up. He's glad Pulaski can't see him. He squeezes his fellow ranger's hand and he turns to go. He needs to get back to the ranger station and see if there's any news about his missing cruise. Lt. Edson Lewis snorts awake on the floor of the boxcar as the train stops with a hiss. He blinks and gazes out the open door with a sigh. He can't believe that they're back in Avery and that the town is still standing. The sun has just risen on August 22nd. Lewis stands on wobbly legs and steps outside. Forest Ranger Ralph Debitt is stepping down from the engine 20 yards away. DEBITT calls out that he's going to the ranger station to check whether the telegraph lines are still working. Working. He wants some news about what the fire's doing. Lewis nods and examines the battered boxcar in the early morning light. Most of the paint on the outside is scorched and blistered. It looks like it just passed through hell, which isn't a bad description of the night that they just endured. The train continued to shift back and forth on the tracks every few hours, trapped between various fires. There were more trees and rock slides to clear, too. The night passed in a blur of tension and furious work. Thankfully, the fire at their back died down enough for them to limp back to Avery. It might feel like a retreat, but at least here they can replenish their food and water supplies and figure out their next move Lewis's soldiers need to rest too. They're exhausted. Lewis himself feels like he could drop down and sleep for a week. Just then, he hears a shout from Lt. Lewis. Round up your men. Lewis turns to see Debitt sprinting toward him. The telegraph lines were indeed open and the reports Debitt got from the other stations are grim. Two arms of the fire are now converging south towards Avery, closing in on the town like a pincer. Lewis feels his chest tighten. This is exactly what he feared in returning to Avery. He's suddenly wide awake. Do we trust the train enough to make another run for it? No, there's too much debris on the tracks. We'll never get through. I think our best bet is to start a fire here. He explains what he means. If the two wildfires are allowed to reach Avery, they'll be huge. By that point, the flames could easily be 70 or 80ft tall. That's far too big for any hope of saving the town. So instead, Debitt wants to light the forest north of Avery on fire. As the flames of this man made fire grow, they'll burn outward, away from the town. That's because Avery sits at the bottom of a steep mountain slope and fire burns more quickly uphill. More importantly, there's a lot more fuel in the dense forest than in the town. And fires always follow the fuel. Of course, embers could still blow back and start a fire in town, but they can have men stationed at vulnerable points to put out the flames. And the payoff is if the man made fire can burn its way far enough north that will starve the southbound natural fire of fuel and prevent it from reaching Avery. In short, they'll use a modest man made fire to deplete the bigger natural wildfire of strength. Lewis sees the logic in the idea, but he's also worried. This sounds awfully dangerous. Are we really sure we can stop the town from catching fire? I don't see that we have much choice here. Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire. Luis nods and studies the sky. He can already see gray smoke above. This plan concerns him a lot, but they'll have to risk it. He turns to rouse his men. As exhausted as they are, they can't rest now. Fire has been their enemy all week, but right now, it's their only hope. It's your man, Nick Cannon, and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at Night. I've heard y' all been needing some advice in the love department. So who better to help than yours truly? Nah, I'm serious. Every week I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best expert in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions. Having problems with your man? We got you catching feelings for your sneaky link. Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom? Let's talk about it. Consider this a non judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex and modern dating in relationships, friendships, situationships and everything in between. It's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy and know what? You'll just have to watch the show. So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad free? Join Wondery right now Private Roy Greene thrust the handle of a water pump on up and down, filling yet another bucket. He's been on pumping duty for over an hour and his shoulders ache from the effort. But he can't slow down now. Every bucket of water they can fill is precious. It's close to 11am the past several hours have flown by. Green and the other Buffalo soldiers are filling every barrel, bucket and washtub in town with water, then lugging them to the buildings along the northern perimeter of a They're worried about embers flying backward from the fire they're going to start. The only way to prevent buildings from catching is to have water on hand to douse the embers immediately. Other men are taking additional measures. They're dragging flammable objects back a safe distance. Saw horses, wagon wheels, buckets of paint and grease. Still other men are shoveling garbage away so it doesn't burn. As Green finishes filling one more bucket, Lieutenant Edson Lewis appears at greenside. That's enough water, Private. We can't afford to wait much longer. Greene's stomach tightens, but he nods. Lewis raises his voice. Everyone take your place. Stay vigilant. The soldiers fan out to various points around the edge of town. Several climb onto rooftops with ladders, hauling buckets of water with them. Greene watches Forest Ranger Ralph Debitt hustle a hundred yards down the street street to where the forest starts on the edge of town. With bated breath, Greene watches him strike a match and light a rolled up newspaper. He bends down and tosses it into some rush. Then he shifts 20 yards to his left and repeats the process with another rolled up newspaper. Debitt does this five times, then hurries back toward downtown. The fires catch more quickly than Green expects. Within minutes, the flames are 10ft tall, fed by the dry brush and gusts of wind. And just as quickly, fat orange embers begin lofting into town and peppering the buildings. Before long, it's all hands on deck to stop them from catching fire. The next half hour is frantic. Greene sprints back and forth, helping out wherever he can. He's gratified to see that the white men in town are taking his order. These people insulted his fellow soldiers all week, spitting on the ground they walked on. But in this crisis, they're obeying every single word. Finally, Greene hears Debitt shouting, here it comes over the ridge. He looks up to see the gigantic wildfire they've been dreading. It crests the ridge north of town and starts to pour downhill. Its flames must be a hundred feet tall. Meanwhile, the man made fire is rushing up toward it, gaining strength with every foot. And not just because of the f it's burning. Green heard the rangers explain that the largest wildfires actually generate their own weather. They gobble up so much air that they create winds that suck in everything around them. He didn't quite believe it then, but he does now. Their man made fire is benefiting mightily from this extra wind, swelling in size until its flames are almost as tall as the wildfire's. Green freezes, equal parts fascinated and afraid as the two tidal waves of flame prepare to slam into each other. One poorly timed gus could send a shower of embers back towards Avery. He and his fellow soldiers would have no chance. The whole town could burn down in a matter of minutes. Miraculously, though, right before the two fires clash, the wind that's been tormenting them for days finally dies. The whole world around them seems to stop as the fires meet. There's a sudden giant swell, just as Green feared, but without any wind, no embers fly aloft. And after the initial swell, the combined fire starts to shrink from lack of fuel. Green holds his breath for a long minute, not allowing himself to believe it. But it's true. The fires are burning themselves out. Cheers erupt around town. The miners, loggers, and buffalo soldiers all whooping and hollering. Green feels himself getting choked up. He's proud of his fellow buffalo soldiers. They couldn't have performed better. And he hopes that after all they've done for the people of Avery, they've earned their gratitude, maybe even their respect. Private Roy Greene trudges along a charred hill in the Coeur d' Alene national Forest. He's startled at the scale of the devastation in every direction, there's nothing but scorched earth and dead, fallen trees. A thick smell of smoke and burnt SAP pervades everything. It's 6pm on August 22nd. Greene and his fellow soldiers have been marching for a few hours now. He cannot believe that anyone survived being trapped in a situation like this, but a few people have, including the injured firefighter who's on horseback ahead of the troops. After saving Avery with the man made fire, Greene's men caught a few hours of much needed sleep in the clearing on the outskirts of town. Most didn't even make it into their tents before collapsing. But mid afternoon, Lieutenant Lewis shook Greene awake. He told Greene that a few survivors had staggered into town from the Beauchamp homestead. Unfortunately, a half dozen other men were still trapped up there in a root cellar after a tree crashed down and crushed the entrance. The men who made it back didn't know if the ones in the cellar were dead or alive, so Lieutenant Lewis ordered Greene and a few other buffalo soldiers to head up to the homestead and investigate. The survivor, in the best shape, would ride a horse to show them the way. Each man on the march is wearing a heavy pack full of medical supplies and other equipment. The straps are cutting into Greene's sore shoulders. Between that and his deep exhaustion, he's never felt so battered. Finally, they reach the Beauchamp homestead. The creek there is thick with black gunk, and several fallen trees lay across it. One has a dead man trapped beneath it, his body burned beyond recognition. The man on the horse leads them to the root cellar. The tree lying across it is too big to move, so Green and another soldier grab shovels from their packs and start digging around it. After 10 minutes, Green breaks through to a cavity. He leans over and calls into the hole. Hello? Can anyone in there hear me? He listens hard, but the smell that rises from the inside, burnt hair and charred flesh, tells him everything that he needs to know. There's no hope that anyone inside survived. Green turns and asks the man on horseback who they were. The man shrugs. He never knew their names, but two of them were Italian. Greene rises wearily and studies the sky. They'll have to hurry back to town before dark, but they have one last duty. Greene removes his hat and nods at one of his soldiers. The man digs through his pack and emerges with a bugle. Then they all stand at attention, their eyes lowered as he plays taps to honor the fallen men. Domenico Bruno and Giacomo Viettoni were two of the 78 firefighters who were killed during the big burn. For some of the dead. It was their first day on the job. In addition, seven non firefighting civilians died, bringing the death toll to 85. Soldiers continued to scour the forest for days after the fire looking for bodies. Sadly, the majority of victims were too badly burned to identify. Most were buried where they were found with simple markers. But a few years later, they were disinterred and reburied in cemeteries in nearby towns, including Wallace. Overall, the big burn scorched 3.2 million acres across four states. The Coeur d' Alene National Forest was devastated. Without sufficient trees and undergrowth to anchor the soil, severe erosion occurred. Bark beetles feasted on dead timber and then decimated the few trees that had managed to survive. It took decades for the forest to recover. The Buffalo Soldiers never received much credit nationally for their role in fighting the Big Burn. Still, the people of Wallace and Avery never forgot them. Several admitted afterward that they'd thought poorly of black people before. But the heroics of John James Roy Greene and the others changed their minds. The Buffalo Soldiers continued to serve with distinction in later wars until the U.S. armed forces were finally integrated in 1948. Bill Weigel left Wallace a year after the Big Burn for the Alaska Territory, where he patrolled island forests from a boat. He then transferred to the Cascade Mountains of Washington, where heavy rainfall made wildfires infrequent. He retired from the forest service in 1933. After months in the hospital, Ed Pulaski's burns finally healed, although his lungs never did did fully recover and he remained blind in one eye. He had become a national hero for saving 39 of the 45 men under his command. But fame left him uneasy, and he grew bitter over the federal government's tepid response to the Big Burn. Penny pinching. Members of Congress refused to cover the medical bills of most injured firefighters, including Pulaski. In some cases, Pulaski paid his men's bills himself. He also fought for years for funds to establish a memorial for the dead, finally succeeding in 1924. Afterward, he personally tended to the grounds beyond his heroics in 1910. Pulaski remains famous today for inventing the so called Pulaski firefighting tool, a combination axe and digging blade that can both chop trees and clear brush. He developed it in direct response to the Big Burn after realizing that better tools would have helped build stronger firebreaks and contain the flames. Poor health forced Pulaski to retire from the forestry service in 1929. He died two years later at the age of 64. Emma outlived her husband by 17 years, dying in 1948 of a stroke at age 80. Their daughter Elsie, died in 1972 at the age of of 69. All three are buried in the forest cemetery in Coeur d', Alene, Idaho, not far from Wallace. After the Big Burn, the Forestry Service adopted a zero tolerance policy toward wildfires, vowing to attack them aggressively the moment they started. But that policy is now seen as misguided. Ecologically, fire is a part of nature, and stamping out small fire allows vegetation to build up, becoming fuel that makes big fires all the more dangerous. Today, with climate change making wildfires stronger all of the time, human beings are still negotiating our relationship with one of the most destructive forces in all of nature. If you like against the odds, you can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery and the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondry.com survey this is the fourth episode of our four part series the Big Burn. A quick note about our scenes. In most cases we can't exactly know what was said, but everything is based on historical research. If you'd like to learn more about this event, we recommend the books the Big Burn by Timothy Egan, Year of the Fires by Stephen Pine and When the Mountains roared by the U.S. forest Service. I'm your host Mike Corey. Sam Keane wrote this episode. Our editor is Steve Fennon, Tennessee. Sound design by Joe Richardson. Audio engineer is Sergio Enriquez. Original theme music by Scott Velasquez and 2K for freeze on sync. Fact checking by Alyssa Jung Perry Produced by Emily Frost Managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Senior producer is Andy Herman. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Stephanie, Jens Marshall, Louie and Aaron o'. Flair. Clarity for one.
Date: October 21, 2025 | Host: Mike Corey (Wondery)
The gripping final episode of the four-part “Big Burn” series immerses listeners in the climactic hours and aftermath of the historic 1910 wildfire that swept the Idaho Panhandle. Told through dramatized accounts and historical record, it follows the harrowing experiences of forest rangers, the Buffalo Soldiers, townspeople, and their families as they attempt to outmaneuver and ultimately confront the unstoppable flames—culminating in the perilous decision to fight the wildfire with fire itself. The episode also reflects on the consequences of the disaster, the courage of its unsung heroes, and the enduring impact on American firefighting policy and racial perceptions.
“Fight Fire with Fire” delivers a powerful conclusion to the “Big Burn” saga, elegantly balancing harrowing survival narrative with a nuanced exploration of legacy—personal, social, and ecological. Through stories of quick thinking, “ordinary” heroism, and unity against disaster, it underscores the resilience of human communities and the complicated relationship between fire, nature, and policy.
Recommended reading and resources (as listed at episode’s end):
Episode Credits
Host: Mike Corey
Writer: Sam Kean
Editor: Steve Fennon Tennessee
Sound design, fact-checking, and production support as credited in episode
For more:
This summary covers all essential narrative points and lessons of the episode, focusing on key characters, decisions, turning points, and the ultimate outcomes for both individuals and the communities involved.