Against The Odds

Episode: The Big Burn | Fight Fire with Fire | 4

Date: October 21, 2025 | Host: Mike Corey (Wondery)

Overview

The gripping final episode of the four-part “Big Burn” series immerses listeners in the climactic hours and aftermath of the historic 1910 wildfire that swept the Idaho Panhandle. Told through dramatized accounts and historical record, it follows the harrowing experiences of forest rangers, the Buffalo Soldiers, townspeople, and their families as they attempt to outmaneuver and ultimately confront the unstoppable flames—culminating in the perilous decision to fight the wildfire with fire itself. The episode also reflects on the consequences of the disaster, the courage of its unsung heroes, and the enduring impact on American firefighting policy and racial perceptions.

Key Discussion Points and Narrative Arcs

1. The Train Evacuation: Narrow Escape from the Flames

• Setting: Coeur d’Alene National Forest, morning of August 21, 1910.
• Scene: Sgt. John James of the Buffalo Soldiers calms a train car full of women and children during a dangerous bridge crossing, with the bridge itself ablaze.
• Tactics: The train engineer chooses to accelerate, risking it all (“They race forward for 90 seconds…”). Inside, terror mounts; “James flashes back to his childhood in Alabama, when preachers would rail about fire and brimstone. This is exactly what he imagined hell would look like.” (00:02)
• Outcome: The train makes it over as “sunlight replaces the orange glare of fire.” James announces, “We’re safe, everyone. Keep drinking water and just try to relax.” (00:03)

2. Ed Pulaski and the Aftermath in Wallace

• Survival in the Tunnel: After enduring a night trapped in a mining tunnel, Pulaski leads his battered crew toward Wallace in daylight, blinded in one eye and with burned hands and feet.
  • Pulaski insists on pressing forward despite his men’s weariness: “For all we know, Wallace could have been wiped completely off the map... better to focus on the march to safety, one painful step at a time.” (00:05)
• Hazards on the Trail: The men, desperate for water, find a toxic ashen creek. Pulaski halts them: “Everyone stop. Don’t drink the water. It’s likely toxic.” (00:09)
• Family Reunions: Emma Pulaski, Ed’s wife, finds him alive but grievously injured: "Oh, Ed, I thought I'd lost you. Not yet. What about Elsie?" (00:11)

3. The Buffalo Soldiers and Avery’s Last Stand

• Strategy Session: Lt. Edson Lewis of the Buffalo Soldiers and Ranger Ralph Debitt debate evacuation routes (train, river), but ultimately fall back to defending Avery as fire approaches.
• Failed Escape: Attempts to find a safe refuge by the river fail (“Looks more like a creek than a proper river, barely ankle deep in places.”), so they resolve to try their luck by rail.
• Perilous Train Run: Soldiers and townsfolk attempt to outrun fire by rail, only to become trapped between advancing fronts, clearing debris and even encountering rock slides—losing men to the elements along the way.
• Crisis and Return: Forced by insurmountable obstacles to return to Avery, where the fire now closes in from two directions: "Two arms of the fire are converging south toward Avery, closing in on the town like a pincer." (~01:00)

4. The Decisive Plan: Fighting Fire with Fire

• Drastic Measure: Ranger Debitt proposes lighting a controlled fire north of town to consume fuel ahead of the natural wildfire—a risky “fight fire with fire” gambit.
• Preparation and Doubts: Buckets of water are filled, flammable objects moved, and men are stationed to defend buildings from windblown embers. Private Greene marvels at the temporary unity, as those who’d insulted the Buffalo Soldiers now rely on them: "These people insulted his fellow soldiers all week... but in this crisis, they're obeying every single word." (01:10)
• Climax: As the artificial fire and wildfire surge toward each other—both fanned by fire-induced winds—“the whole world seems to stop as the fires meet... but without any wind, no embers fly aloft. And after the initial swell, the combined fire starts to shrink from lack of fuel.”
• Victory: Relief explodes as Avery is saved; cheers ring out among miners, loggers, and Buffalo Soldiers alike.

5. Aftermath, Honors, and Lessons Learned

• Search for Survivors: Greene and others search for trapped or missing men—tragically, the toll includes many firefighters and townspeople, some whose names were never even known.
• Casualties and Recovery: 78 firefighters and 7 civilians perished. Massive ecological damage ensued, with erosion, beetle infestations, and decades-long impacts on the forest.
• Recognition: The Buffalo Soldiers’ heroics gained little national renown at the time but earned the gratitude of Wallace and Avery, altering some locals’ racist perceptions: “Several admitted afterward they'd thought poorly of black people before. But the heroics of John James, Roy Greene, and the others changed their minds.” (~01:28)
• Legacy of Ed Pulaski:
  • Pulaski’s innovation: He later invents the "Pulaski," a standard firefighting tool, in direct response to the disaster.
  • Despite national acclaim, he remains bitter at Congress's “tepid response,” even paying injured men’s bills himself and fighting nearly 15 years for a memorial.
• Fire Policy Evolution: The Big Burn led to a “zero tolerance” national policy on wildfires—later recognized as ecologically harmful. The episode closes reflecting on the continuing human struggle to coexist with wildfire in the age of climate change.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sgt. John James (on the train):
  "This is exactly what he imagined hell would look like." (00:02)
• Pulaski’s resilience:
  “Better to focus on the march to safety, one painful step at a time.” (00:05)
• Emma Pulaski’s reunion:
  “Oh, Ed, I thought I’d lost you.” — Emma (00:11) “Not yet.” — Ed (00:11)
• Ranger Debitt’s logic for fighting fire with fire:
  "Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire." (~01:05)
• Private Roy Greene reflecting on unity and respect:
  “These people insulted his fellow soldiers all week... but in this crisis, they're obeying every single word.” (01:10)
• On the Buffalo Soldiers' impact:
  "Several admitted afterward that they'd thought poorly of black people before. But the heroics of John James, Roy Greene, and the others changed their minds." (~01:28)
• Ed Pulaski’s humility and critique:
  "Yeah, well, I'm just doing my job, Bill. I know you would have done the same." (~01:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02 — Train races across burning bridge; passengers engulfed in flames.
• 00:05–00:15 — Pulaski leads crew out of the tunnel, reunion with Emma, Wallace in ruins.
• 00:16–00:33 — Buffalo Soldiers in Avery, poker game, shifting evacuation plans, failed search for river refuge.
• 00:35–01:00 — Attempted evacuation by train, encounters with rockslides and fire, forced return to Avery.
• 01:05–01:15 — Preparations and implementation of the backfire; frantic defense of town.
• 01:16 — The great meeting of the two fires, Avery’s miraculous survival.
• 01:22–01:30 — Aftermath: search for missing, commemorations, reflections on integration and memory.
• 01:31–end — Legacy of the Big Burn: ecological lessons, Pulaski’s tool, slow progress in recognition and policy reform.

Tone and Language

• The episode uses vivid, cinematic narration—immersing the listener in visceral fear, exhaustion, desperate courage, and fleeting moments of hope.
• Dialogue and character voices retain era-appropriate diction and unflinching realism, particularly regarding race, heroism, and hardship.

Final Reflections

“Fight Fire with Fire” delivers a powerful conclusion to the “Big Burn” saga, elegantly balancing harrowing survival narrative with a nuanced exploration of legacy—personal, social, and ecological. Through stories of quick thinking, “ordinary” heroism, and unity against disaster, it underscores the resilience of human communities and the complicated relationship between fire, nature, and policy.

Recommended reading and resources (as listed at episode’s end):

• The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
• Year of the Fires by Stephen Pyne
• When the Mountains Roared (U.S. Forest Service)

Episode Credits
Host: Mike Corey
Writer: Sam Kean
Editor: Steve Fennon Tennessee
Sound design, fact-checking, and production support as credited in episode

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This summary covers all essential narrative points and lessons of the episode, focusing on key characters, decisions, turning points, and the ultimate outcomes for both individuals and the communities involved.