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- [00:01]
Michael Stelzner
Hey there, it's Michael Stelzner from Social Media Examiner. Are you a marketer trying to navigate the AI revolution? What if you could create content twice as fast, automate tedious tasks and become the go to AI expert in your company? The AI Business Society, brought to you by your friends at Social Media examiner gives you expert led training, a supportive community, and proven frameworks to master AI marketing that will boost your value and your productivity. Join now and lock in your discounted member pricing@socialmediaexaminer.com AI welcome to the AI Explored podcast, helping you put AI to work. And now, here's your host, Michael Stelzner. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you so much for joining me for the AI Explored podcast brought to you by Social Media Examiner. I'm your host, Michael Stelzer, and this is the podcast for marketers, creators and business owners who want to know how to put AI to work. Hey, I've got some exciting news. Today is the one year anniversary of today's podcast. Woo hoo. If I had sound effects. Actually, I think I do. Let's see if this works. Nope, that's not it.
- [01:25]
Claire Bouvier
Yay.
- [01:27]
Michael Stelzner
I don't know if you can hear this, but there's a bunch of people cheering the but a bump obviously wasn't the right thing. Hey, in today's interview, I'm very excited. I'm going to be joined by Claire Bouvier and we're going to talk about emotional intelligence and AI. And we're going to talk about the Enneagram, which is a really fascinating test that you can take and couple with AI in order to actually help you in ways that are really magical. Now I, when I introduced Claire mentioned her podcast as Human first, but it's actually Human first AI, so I wanted to kind of correct that here. I had documented that incorrectly. So with that, I just want to say thank you. If you've been a regular listener for a long time, really appreciate you listening to the show. Let's transition over to this week's interview with Claire Bouvier, helping you simplify your AI journey. Here is this week's expert guide. Today, I'm very excited to be joined by Claire Bouvier. If you don't know who Claire is, she is an AI strategist who helps businesses improve their operations with AI. She teaches AI workshops and trains businesses to use AI. And her podcast is the Human First Podcast. Claire, welcome to the show. How you doing today?
- [02:49]
Claire Bouvier
I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [02:51]
Michael Stelzner
I'm super excited you're here. Claire. Today, Claire and I are going to explore how to embrace emotional intelligence when working with artificial intelligence AI tools. Now, before we go into all that emotional intelligence kind of stuff, Claire, I want to hear your story. How'd you get into AI? Start wherever you want to start.
- [03:09]
Claire Bouvier
Well, thanks for being here and to all the listeners, I'm excited to share because anyone that's a mom can remember the days. Well, we got the pandemic, so everyone felt that. And then I had a photography business studio and then became a new mom and my photography business just went zoop. Overnight, crash, burn, like no one's coming into the studio. And I realized I had to pivot really quickly. I shut it down and it was around, oh my goodness, in the throes of being a new mom, not knowing what I'm doing, also being like, okay, I have to completely reinvent the next chapter. And my sister is an amazing UX designer for a big UK firm and she's on the top of everything when it comes to tech. And she's like, you know, you have heard of ChatGPT. And I was so embarrassed. It had been out for three months and I like to consider myself an early adopter. And I was like, anything she says, I'm gonna go and check it out. So I was like, ChatGPT. And it was around 10pm in February of 2023. So it'd been a couple months, it had been out and I was laying in bed. I wish I could capture. I actually, for this call was trying to find out the first thing I asked ChatGPT. I couldn't find my first thread because there's a quadrillion now. But I knew in that moment, it was such a visceral moment. I had goosebumps and I shook my husband. I was like, the world is going to change. And I remember in that moment, everything had unlocked for me. It was this opportunity that I had a talking mirror essentially that was smarter and better. And that was when I realized for my ADHD brain, I had this co partner for life. And there was going to be some major changes that happened. And because of this, people always say, does it change your creativity or replace it? No. It allowed me to wear lots of hats, stay organized and hit my first six figure contract. And I honestly, I feel like I'm an ambassador for OpenAI. I am not, but AI has unlocked and championed so many revolutionary things for me in the last three years. And so I'm so excited to share these little pieces. Very human focused. First AI and that's Essentially, there's a lot more to it, but that really encapsulates going from not having this partner to now a 247 administrative assistant and talking mirror, so to speak.
- [05:50]
Michael Stelzner
So bring us up to the present. Tell us what you're doing now as a result of this awesome discovery that you made.
- [05:57]
Claire Bouvier
Well, turns out I am really good at asking questions and love to ask questions. So I was creating multiple accounts so I could keep using the tokens that the AI and it was like, and you've hit your limb. And I was like, and then when it came paid, that was like a game changer. But then I like, yeah, I was spending a thousand dollars to be just chatting to find out which one was better and who had better answers and who was more human. And so all this like questioning, questioning, questioning and feedback and re questioning it and figuring out how to speak to it and what not to say and what gives outputs. And then it really got to the point that I was like, when I started talking to other people, they're like, well, I don't know what to write. I'm like, what do you mean you can ask it anything? And so over time, I started to realize just showing my friends, showing anyone that wanted to solve any immediate problem and this is where it unlocks, it personalizes the problem solving. So anything you have a problem for a long time, you read a manual, you YouTube something, but it's just coming from the instructor. I started to realize it was personalizing feedback for my personality, my problem, my situation, how my brain works. And that unlocked everything. And so this is where now, today I have officially launched with my co partner Kaylee, we run Bright Light and Brightlight IO unlocks these opportunities for people to show them how they can move through the world. Being human first, being an awesome individual and an empathetic individual, but also having using the tool of AI to really expedite and really take their life to where they really want it to go in a really positive, exciting place. And so that's what I'm now doing. And it's humbling me every single day. I don't know where it's going to end up, but it's been pretty exciting. The people I've been able to work with, including yourself, you championing all these AI people. And so I thank you for that because this has been a really exciting year for me.
- [08:11]
Michael Stelzner
Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing. Bright Light IO, how do you spell bright light? Just so people, because there's so many different ways to spell bright and light, right?
- [08:19]
Claire Bouvier
Yes. So When I. A plaque in Latin when I was born. Clair means giver of light. And that's where it's played off of. Just my role on this Earth is to try and shine light on dark places, and it happens to be with AI. So I'm using the Old English B R I T E L I T E IO and it looks nice.
- [08:44]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah, that's cool. I'm glad you said that, because people are going to phonetically spell it and they're going to get it wrong. So. Okay, awesome. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing your experience and your journey, because I know your journey is a lot like other people's journeys, where they had this, aha, epiphany moment when they first used a. And many people said, wow, that's going to change everything, including me. And some are just now experiencing it for the first time and perhaps listening to this show, so now bringing it all around to emotional intelligence. Let's talk about. Why is emotional intelligence so important in a world where AI is proliferating everywhere?
- [09:22]
Claire Bouvier
Well, I know we don't have three days to talk about this, but. But I like to say that data wins minds, but at the end of the day, empathy wins wallets, and it goes back to the beginning of time that storytelling will always be the most powerful conversion for individuals. And as humans, we are drawn to stories, and in stories, they're emotionally built. My background was a high school English teacher, and this is what I would talk every day. Like, it's not about, you know, what happens at the end, but it's like the journey and how it's happening. And so we've gotten to a world where AI can commoditize anything, which is exciting, but the emotional intelligence is now going to be the differentiator. And AI is getting smarter at being very human. Like, but at the end of the day, there are the offline worlds, the connections we make, where we want to go in life. AI can do a lot of things, but it can't replace you in the offline world. And we know that the offline world is essentially how you build your network. Look what you've done, Michael. Like, after a quadrillion years in the podcast space, I shouldn't say, Katrin, you've just been the og. You have given free knowledge to people. People trust you, people get excited to tune in. And so when you share information and it's because they trust you, because they've built that human connection with you. And so this is where we're all like, the hype is so Exciting, like I can pretty much automate anything in my life. But when it comes to building networks and transformation, emotional intelligence already we're seeing is a non negotiable to be something that's going to differentiate you even just in business as a, as a competitor, but also as a human to build connections. And it's interesting because at the end of the day, I was teaching a workshop for HubSpot and it was fascinating to look at. When I'm chatting the most activity and the most. When it comes to AI, the people that get most excited is anything that's around the emotional content. It's so valuable because it's something that unlocks the whole piece. And we talk about the storytelling and feelings and emotions. And that's where so many people miss that part when they're using AI to build that in. Therefore the outputs become generic, they become very lack the storytelling piece. That's really, really important. And so this is where I get really excited. It's not about just better algorithms, but it's really about creating more intelligent prompting. And that comes from the intelligent prompting and being able to build out really strong. You know, any projects that we're doing is that we go back and go deeply into the emotional intelligence of it and priming it and everything. Every person that I look up to in AI keeps hitting home. It's all about context and the context. What context means is context is the emotional framework and the emotions that are going behind all the data and the numbers. And that's important. But what really dials something in or converts or changes someone is the emotions that come into play and understanding that. And so this is what's scary though, because when I jump on Claude, it's becoming more and more human. In a weird way, it's pushing us to become even more human, if that makes sense. We really are competing with other humans using AI, but at the end of the day, we are making sure we're really tuning into our, I hate to use this word, but that authentic self. And so at the end of the day, we want to think, you know, AI will unlock everything moving forward. And when I say AI, emotional intelligence in the AI.
- [13:18]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, so maybe let's just spend a second talking about intelligence versus emotional intelligence and I'll start with intelligence. AI is perhaps, or very well soon will be, the most intelligent access machine, quote unquote, that exists. Right. It has more insights and knowledge than anyone else in the world and it's only getting stronger. Right. So when we think of intelligence, we mean access to information Right. And the ability to connect things together. What do we mean about emotional intelligence? How is that different?
- [13:48]
Claire Bouvier
Well, I like to think of it that, you know, business is the best way to use it because a lot of our listeners are in the business world. Intelligence is knowing your demographics and, you know, everything, all the data behind it. But then something that I have been working a lot in is then we go deeper and we look at people as individuals and we go further and we look at. And something that has unlocked everything I do now is our enneagrams, individual enneagrams. And it's like, okay, the demographics allow us to understand who buys. But then these personality tests that we run that we understand and look at an emotional intelligence, it's why people care. Understanding that why unlocks everything. And this is where emotional intelligence changes the game because it's giving the value after you have the numbers and really figuring out why am I doing this? Why am I motivated both on both sides? So, yes, that's kind of like where the emotional intelligence is playing into, is going deeper into what? And more so why motivate someone to do some sort of behavior that is unlocks so much opportunity? It could be just dealing with a very angry customer versus figuring out how to champion or motivate a team player that you're working with, or how to talk to your spouse after a long day when you have completely two different motivations and how you relax, for example.
- [15:22]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, so I'm going to try to restate what I think I heard you say. Emotional intelligence is understanding what motivates people to take action or to respond the way that they do. And it's fueled by their personality. And you mentioned the enneagram, which we use very strongly. And I am an 8 wing 7 on the enneagram, which is those that know what it means, know what it means, but we're all motivated by different objections or objectives and purposes and stuff like that. And I think what I'm hearing you say is that AI can really help you, number one, with the intelligence side of it. But number two, it can help you also understand maybe some of these emotional intelligence things, because it understands that as well. But. And that's where we bring our nature to the equation with the understanding of these things in order to be able to do something more. I don't know, I'm struggling to maybe describe this, but am I close?
- [16:19]
Claire Bouvier
It's great. And you know what? It's funny because everyone when we talk about it, there's so many different use cases and so many ways you can do it. And it's hard because I find it hard to. At the end of the day, we as humans, and it goes back to we only know what we know based on our experiences and our intelligence. And it is human nature for us and also completely normal for us not to always see the other person's perspective, their experiences, you know, walk in my shoes kind of thing.
- [16:51]
Michael Stelzner
We.
- [16:51]
Claire Bouvier
Well, it's really hard to. When you might be limited on information or let's say you're under stress or you're angry or you're excited and we miss a lot of things. And this is where AI has unlocked so much, is that if it just comes to understanding someone else better, it's about just kind of troubleshooting through that instead of just reacting completely in emotion because that's how we feel. We become better listeners, better leaders, better, better partners is when we can actually look at the other side. And this is the thing, is that AI has access to some of the greatest psychologists, researchers, statistics, all these things that we can tap into and saying, okay, imagine this is my situation based on X author. I'm doing this with a parenting book being like, based on this author. How can I channel these resources? How do I prepare myself for this situation? And I can only prepare a situation based on my experience by knowledge. But when we feed into, essentially it's a library that's giving us this. It's going through these thousands and thousands of books and pulling together the most personalized best advice based on everything written based on our situation. And that changes everything.
- [18:10]
Michael Stelzner
Love it. Okay, so let's say that we as humans, which everyone listening to this, I hope you're a human. I'm sure some AIs are listening to this, but we want to tap into leveraging AI specifically to help us with our emotional intelligence. You mentioned Enneagram, so why don't you kind of describe what that is? And, and let's get into this a little bit because I feel like everything we're about to talk about here, and let me just preface this, everything that we're about to talk about today is going to be relevant in all aspects of our lives because we have to interact with our children, with our spouses, with our boss, with our employees, with our customers. Some are happy, some are not. So there's always situations where we're in where we could benefit right from understanding this emotional intelligence concept. So with that being said, go ahead and like, let's just describe what the heck this enneagram thing is. And let's get into it.
- [19:09]
Claire Bouvier
Okay. If you're me and you're biking listening, jump off and listen. I don't want anyone hurting themselves. So. Okay. The best part to start is first, some people may have never taken a personality test. There's free versions, there's anything. And we say enneagram because it's the most. It's really, really granular on asking the right questions. It's 144 questions and it will take you about 30 minutes depending on how you answer. You go through the quiz and it's going to spit out an awesome report. As Michael said, he's an 8 with a 7. He is a rock star leader and an enthusiast by nature, which makes him the perfect podcast host. We can go into that further. So one thing, this test can be a fantastic resource to actually just start career. Like maybe you're unhappy in your career. Maybe that's the starting point. We're not, we're diving too far. Maybe you know how to deal with a situation, but maybe we're just like, who am I? And maybe there's things that haven't been recognized that this test will pull out. So this is the greatest thing, is that you get those results and if you're comfortable and you find a platform, I would say Claude in this case is the most private. And it's nice to have those conversations that you feel that it's private conversation. You put in the results and you just ask it questions. And I will provide after today, suggested questions. You can ask AI and if you're in Claude or whatever, it's chatgpt, depending on what your preferences are, you're going to ask the questions of being based on what you know about me, what are some things I should be focusing on in my day to day job at work? If I struggle with this, let's say I'm having a trouble in this case, or I'm excited about this, or I'm trying to plan this, it will then put it into a way that's packaged exactly in your personality. It will put it together and step by, you can say, okay, whoa, step by step. Just give me one week to plan it out. You can if for people listening that are super AI rock stars, I've built an entire GPT dedicated to just my enneagram. Anytime I enter a situation that's a personal situation, I have a project on Claude as well that I just go into and say, hey, okay, this is my next little obstacle I need to overcome. I need a new perspective why this is so beneficial or I will say necessary is that it saves hundreds of hours of stress going back and forth with teams figuring out if you're doing the right thing. Did I get the right Christmas presents for someone? Did I make sure that I like the text message was, you know, not passive aggressive and am I getting my ego in this? And it's actually really cool because it's humbling. And if you're open to just being open to learning and growing this tool, it's going to be unlock everything. And this is when how do I talk to clients without being boring? Or how do I lean into maybe more an introverted side or extroverted side of myself? And so it just starts with taking the test. You put it in the results. And the nice thing is with AI now and Michael, you can probably speak to this AI, you can say, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this information. We're at that point where AI could say, well, here are some things I would recommend. And then we go step by step. It will say, well, based on this situation, what I prefer, and the rule of thumb to keep it easy, I would say create a conversation that is only solving one thing. Anytime you start asking it to solve a bunch of things based on your personality, the answers become very muffled and diluted, so to speak.
- [23:01]
Michael Stelzner
Let's talk about what's keeping most marketers from truly mastering AI. It's for sure not a lack of interest. Instead, it's reliable guidance and structured learning. The AI Business Society solves this with monthly live training and virtual meetups with marketing experts and peers who are actually applying AI to their daily work. Member John Marie Pearson said, quote, I'm so excited to be part of the AI Society and see how I can learn to embrace the world of AI and have a community to help me stay up to date with everything going on in the AI world. I'm ready for it. Here's what's happening on the inside. Our members are creating persuasive sales pages in half the time, generating stunning visuals without any design skills, and developing AI enhanced strategies that get real results. Lock in your discounted rate@social mediaexaminer.com AI your AI transformation starts now. So before we get into how to use this enneagram stuff with AI, I just want to throw a couple thoughts out there. We at Social Media examiner have asked all of our employees for years to take the Enneagram test and we couple it also with strength Finders test. What we do is we map everybody up and you know, you have your Primary number, and then your wing is your next biggest number to the left or to the right of whatever your number is, and it's not necessarily your next biggest one on the thing. Depending on what test, you're going to get all sorts of different numbers. Eight wing sevens. Like me, we prefer to move fast and place progress over operational process. And the problem with eight wing sevens is we can move so fast that there's no trail that's repeatable. So what we've learned over time is that we need to hire people that are really good at systems to make sure that we can not have to reinvent the wheel every time. Right. And we have, for example, all sorts of different people that work for me, and they have people that work for them. And sometimes we face conflicts. Like, I've got some ones on my team, and those are the perfectionists. And the ones are slow and steady wins the race. And the eights are like fast and furious wins the race. Right. So then all of a sudden you realize, okay, I'm an eight wing seven. How do I work with a one wing two? Okay, I need to slow down a little bit and explain the why. And they need to understand what the process is, and I need to be more patient with them. And these are the kind of things where. Where the more you understand people's enneagram and kind of what motivates them, the more things kind of help lock in. Now, one thing you should know is that your Enneagram can change over time. So it's not one of those things that lives with you forever. So if it's a test you took like five years ago when you were in a very stressful situation, you might want to retake it today. And like you said, there's a bazillion different places where you can take the test. So I just wanted to establish that. Do you want to add anything to that before we get. By the time this is done, if you haven't done it, you're going to go, you're going to Google and you're going to take an enneagram test and you're going to find out what your results are. And you should just be okay with whatever you come up with. If you don't like your results, you should just not take the test again. Right. Any thoughts on that before we move on to, like, once you have your test results, what to do with the AI?
- [26:20]
Claire Bouvier
No, I think you did an excellent job, much better than I did. And also I applaud you because you are 100% another OG in the space doing this way, way, way before people are doing it. But now it's even faster now to actually troubleshoot discourse, communication.
- [26:40]
Michael Stelzner
So okay, let's assume eventually you get a bunch of people to take the enneagram because that's really, I think the goal here, right? I mean obviously you can understand more about yourself and let's talk about understanding yourself first before you talk about other people. But like once you get your Enneagram results or if you have your Enneagram results, how can AI help us understand ourselves? Let's start there.
- [27:01]
Claire Bouvier
Well, the first thing is a lot of people say I don't know what to say. That is, the issue is like, okay, what questions I'm going to ask. And I, I thought a long time about this question because I get it a lot and I just say, what's your 3:00am question? What is the. You're laying in bed at 3:00am, you wake up and you're stressed. That is a great point to start. And the reason is, is because it's the deepest core struggle that you are wrestling with. That's like the elephant in the room that's the biggest weight in your life. Because a lot of times people are like, oh, you know, help me write this email or help me do this. Which is very surface level help, which is great. But I think my mission is to help people to get right from the root. It could be something like how do I get a bigger client? I keep struggling, I keep grasping for these small clients and I can't seem to scale. And it's such a big, big question. And the beautiful part is you start there and you say this is my Enneagram and then you start the discourse. And the beautiful thing is with a lot of the models that are releasing and coming out, whatever large language model you are using, whether it's Gemini Claude More so ChatGPT just rolled out another new model and it's has a lot of follow up questions which is really good. And so this is where it's. For a long time you'd have to come up with the questions. But I would say the best place to start is the question you're wrestling with in the middle of the night and start there because it's so broad and it's a big struggle. And then from there you can actually start role playing different scenarios from there and you might through your enneagram. I don't know if you've done this Michael, but it's kind of shocking when I've put in my results. I Say my big worry. And then it comes with, based on my personality maniagram, it comes with a troubleshooting of like steps, saying step one. And because let's say it knows that you're an 8 7. Well yeah, you said you're going really fast. You're like, okay, I need to solve this problem in one week. Where the one is like, okay, I need to solve this problem and it knows to in three months. And so it's going to give you a plan for the week like going through it and solving it where the one has a much more back and forth. And so this is where I would say there's two things. The first thing is what's the 3am you know, struggle. And then the question comes down to how do I talk to AI? The best is what we call is raw, unstructured data conversation. And I call this, you know, just the voice brain dump. A lot of research is people think clear, better is when they're walking, go for a walk. And that 3am stress, keep note of that. When you go for a walk, write down all the things like just say out loud all the things that you're struggling. It's amazing. You talk about maybe family issues, you're maybe excited about a work opportunity, you need to travel, you want to do all these things. But it's all mumble jumbled. And this is the biggest issue that people are having. They're so overwhelmed. There is so much noise today. And so you have your enneagram. It knows really like your enneagram is kind of like the guiding principles of how you're motivated, how you can continue to become a more awesome person. And then you have your brain dump. Those are the two things that will unlock everything for all of you. Listening is having that personalization of what we call as context. Context of your situation, who you are, what you're willing to share. And then you have the objective, so to speak, truth of the test that you took. When you pair those together, they come with a very unique output that is only for you that will be successful. And I said earlier in the episode I was the girl chasing down small contracts. And there was a gap there when I took my personality test and took my brain dump and I mirrored them. I then had a new plan that I had never considered because again, my experiences led me to this. My intelligence led me to this. I then got this new channel, this new perspective that I started entering a new communication channel. I tried new things. It was uncomfortable and AI is not going to do it for you, but I started showing up differently, and as a result was instead of chasing, you know, small contracts, leading to much bigger contracts and work that I was more aligned for, and that was delivering and. Exactly, Michael, what you said, I hired, I brought on. I now partner with a project manager for operations.
- [31:55]
Michael Stelzner
I love that. Let me ask a couple things here. Well, there's a few things that I wanted to say, and I'm going to try to process them real quick here on the fly. So I think that what I'm hearing you say is open up, in this case, Claude. I use Claude also because I feel like it's better at understanding the human side of this Enneagram stuff. So maybe you would say something like, you are a business growth strategist or a sales strategist who understands the Enneagram. I would like to talk to you about my situation. And I am an 8 wing 7. And then work with me. Right? And then you chat back and forth with it.
- [32:32]
Claire Bouvier
It will anticipate everything you just said. I've tested it. You could just throw in your neogram. It's like, wow, I love your. Your results. Do you want to talk about. And you're like, well, yeah, that's why I'm here.
- [32:43]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, perfect. So that's how we can use it as a thought partner. Right. And what's cool is what I'm hearing you say is because there's so many of these different personalities like you've got for each of these one through nine. Nine. There's a wing on each side. So that means there's like nine times. Whatever. There's. There's a lot of variations here to help us understand ourselves and have breakthroughs. How about working with other people, though? How did you use it to make the right hire from an operations perspective or. Or how can we use it when we're dealing with conflict with somebody else?
- [33:16]
Claire Bouvier
Great question. I think at the end of the day, we all can name one person that we kind of like. And you don't know why. And that's the exciting part, is that as much as I get teased for AI is, my go to. It really has been unlocking all my offline worlds because I've taken the time online to have the discourse and to figure out what I'm missing in the conversation because I'm tunnel vision sometimes, you know, we think in a certain way. And so I realized there's a huge gap in my business by also me acknowledging it, but also it being glaringly obvious when I went through with my AI conversation why this is so Impactful for anyone working in any sort of partnership, team dynamic. This will change everything you're about to do moving forward. For having teams, the first is I worked with someone that little did I realize super amazing attention to detail, all things. And I understood that. And I was like, well, that's why I'm hiring her. What I didn't realize that her motivation wasn't to hit the next, you know, scorecard with a client or, you know, make more money or her motivation strictly was a two, she's a helper. She just needs to be told when she's doing a task, why she's doing the task, and how it helps the mission. And the mission being, you know, of our bright light, trying to help small medium businesses using AI. This is what really unlocked it, was that I was like, okay, I knew what I needed, you know, why she was valuable to me, but I wasn't understanding her value, what she needed. And so as soon as I started and the reason why was tasks weren't getting done or things were, there was a disconnect, things were happening. And so this is when I started diving deeper. And it wasn't until I realized the incentivization for her was astronomically different than what a motivation would be for me. And so this is where if anyone is working in a partnership, in a team dynamic is just saying, hey, a lot of people are like, well, I don't know their enneagram. And that could happen because it could be just a client you're working with. You're not like, hey, before I talk to you, I need you to take this test that is not realistic, but you will be able to get characteristics. And this is why, again, emotional intelligence is so important, is that I always take notes about when I meet someone. I notice behaviors, just little things. I just commentate my entire day. And when you commentate your entire day after you talk to someone, you notice patterns. And you can't. You don't want to assume, but you could say, hey, these are the patterns I noticed. And they're probably fitting into this bucket of the enneagram. And it's broad, but it allows you then to start the discourse and the communication with that individual, to lean towards the commentary that you've been narrating, to really lean into having that conversation with someone, especially if you notice they're defensive, well, then maybe you let the guard down. You say, hey, like, I really like working with you because of this and that maybe they just needed a compliment to get them at ease and to realize you're not out to compete with them. Or maybe they're, like, super anxious and you can say, hey, this is not going public. I just want you to know that this is a conversation, and having that intel will unlock everything. And I do believe. And Michael, you probably, you know, this is being a podcast. Conversations, good conversations, good questions, good curiosity, good creative thinking unlocks the human potential. And that's what I'm most excited about, 100%.
- [37:05]
Michael Stelzner
And I've been told by my executive assistant that she can use AI to discern someone's enneagram, because I can kind of look at a LinkedIn profile or look at the kind of writing that they do, and it can discern what someone's enneagram likely is.
- [37:22]
Claire Bouvier
How did you find her?
- [37:24]
Michael Stelzner
And then if that's true, then you can experiment with, okay, assuming this person is this enneagram, how ought I approach it differently? Here's the situation that I faced, right.
- [37:32]
Claire Bouvier
What kind of email should I do? A cold outreach for someone I'm dying to talk to or. Yes, and I've done it a million times, and it works very cool.
- [37:41]
Michael Stelzner
But is it fair and reasonable for us if. If someone's working with you? I mean, I. I make everybody, even candidates. I ask them for their enneagram. If they haven't taken it, I ask them to take the enneagram test because I feel like it's really important. And of all the tests I've ever done, Myers Briggs Disc Strength Finders, Enneagram just seems to be the one that transcends work and personal life. It just seems to get to the core emotional side of it. So once we've got an understanding of what our enneagram is and other people's enneagram, and we begin going to AI to help us to discern how we ought to behave differently in this situation or how we should craft a message to increase the likelihood that the recipient responds favorably. What comes next?
- [38:26]
Claire Bouvier
Well, execute, test it, test it, and track it. I feel like so many times we intuitively do something, but if you can start quantifying it and actually tracking it, and this is where for anyone in the marketing or the business world, this is like. This unlocks a lot of things because you start recognizing, like, for example, AI loves emotional words. And as soon as we can start understanding, you know, sentiment analysis and how we're performing, then you can double down and start really focusing in on that and recognizing. And what I've realized is that you take these tests that seem. And when I say tests, you try something out and you put it out, whether it's an email, and you look at, and you look at the ones that are converting. And it's nice because in a world of so much noise, you notice faster and faster the things that are really resonating with people. And then you have to ask yourself, is it resonating with you? Is this, you know, AI's kind of guided you to consider a new way of approaching something. And then you have to ask yourself. And when it comes to an email, that's one thing, but I'm talking more about maybe a product launch or I'm talking about, you know, announcement for, you know, AI suggested that the team needs weekly live calls, motivation calls, 10 minutes. And you test those and you get feedback. AI is only good to give suggestions, but there's so many nuances. And so that's why I always say track the nuances, track what's happening, see if you notice anything and where to pivot. And that's where AI can't do all these things. You, as a, you know, there's a lot of research. I think the nudge, they just put a new episode on, talking about, you know, go with your gut. And AI doesn't have gut. I'm sorry. And I hope it never does. But the idea is, you know, at that point, where does it take you? Well, go with your gut and go out and try it. Stop asking questions, don't be me, and, like, keep going down, keep going further, Execute it. Put it out into the real world. Test to see if it works. And the ones that do work, ask yourself, you know, why did it work? And the ones that just did a belly flop, ask yourself, you know, what could I have done differently? And test it. So I would say that's the biggest thing is people get all this information, but then they don't pull the trigger. And to execute and put it out into the world.
- [40:55]
Michael Stelzner
You mentioned earlier in the interview that you have adhd. I am dyslexic, which is still on that neurodiversity scale. Don't have adhd. But to the people listening that have adhd, how has AI helped you? Because one thing I knew about people that have ADHD is they can go down rabbit holes and stay in them for a very long period of time. Right. So how has AI assisted you with your neurodiversity?
- [41:21]
Claire Bouvier
It sounds like a hyperbole. It almost makes me emotional because I can honestly say it's completely transformed my life. And people are like, that's a little drastic and dramatic. But I Will say that it completely has because for the first time ever, I'm someone that has always since a little girl. And I wasn't diagnosed till I was in my 30s. So it was like masking or troubleshooting or trying to, you know, working so hard to be like everyone else, how they dealt with things and realizing I did everything differently. But what I've come to realize is that because I'm always running this commentary and constantly with adhd, most people with ADHD are, are tracking patterns all day long. They're noticing something, then they question. They notice something, question, then they take all these patterns and try and solve these situations. But it gets really, really tiring in your head to have all this information swirling and not putting it out. AI essentially is like the therapist, the friend, the assistant that like can handle the emotional baggage, so to speak. And I can like sift through all the noise before it comes out to a person. And I don't burden a person. That would be like, by far the number one thing is that I can do a lot of troubleshooting my own brain and my own struggles or my fast moving everything to figure out a how to speak to another neurodivergent individual. But also, more importantly, most of the world still is neurotypical. And so then I'm able to figure out how to speak to that world. I'm one of eight kids. My mom had eight of us and we're all very different. And it has helped me so much to like rebuild or work on relationships, even just with siblings, because I recognize these are the things that are really important. So that's just the number one thing. The day to day. I have a GPT that is like, plan my day. And I have prompted it to no end. It will just be like, okay, Claire, you said this was your goal. We're not going to go down these rabbit holes. Here's feeding off like the pomodoro. It's feeding off the, you know, CBT cognitive traits. So cognitive behavioral therapy that I've done for over a decade, taking everything I've learned into one place where I'm like, brain dump. Here's my week. And it plans it and it is gorgeous. It like still makes me like, this sounds hilarious. And falling in love with Claude. But it's, it's. I can breathe. I'm like, okay, I can do the work. I just hated organizing the work. And when I say hated, like torture, torture, putting into quadrants and organized. So that's the second thing. The third thing would be just like in real time, it feeds a creative thing that like when I'm cooking, for example, I don't follow any recipes clearly, but when I'm cooking, I'll take a picture and I'll be like, hey, like, do you think it's too weird to add something like this? I'll be like, actually that's. Yeah, that's a little unusual. Or be like, do you have anything? I see this is in the back of your fridge. Throw that in, it'll be great. It actually unlocks this whole new. I'm sorry, I'm cooking all these different Asian dishes that I'd never tried before. And then I'm going into like Mexican. And it's so fun because I'm like, wow, this is so cool. So in real time it allows me to troubleshoot something that I'm like carpentry I've built because of this. I've built. I can't believe I can say this, but I built a studio. I'm building a sandbox in real time right now for my little 2 year old in the next 2 hours before he gets home. It's allowing me all the things that just weighed me down. Manuals, like fine prints, things that just killed my moving fast, creative, spontaneous. In the real time. I have the detailed partner to. Hey, hey, here, think about this or it gets everything. And from let's go into business side. The business side alone, I can be on a plane and I'm like whispering to my microphone and I'm like, oh shoot, I have a presentation tomorrow. And I'm like, blah, blah, blah. I'm saying all these like things. And when I get to the online world, I try and just. The plane I love to read books and keep it offline. Is that when I go online, I've built a project for presentations alone in Clyde and I say, okay, I need you. And I have crazy prompts for that. But essentially it will spit out the perfect presentation. Then I go into gamma and it's ready to rock and roll. Because I just allowed myself on the plane to talk into it. Michael. I could talk for three hours about use cases, how I use it, how I don't use it is a whole other conversation as well. Is that I have a list of things that morally for me and my own ethical like guardrails. I say, these are the rules that I don't use it for. And that helps me. And AI has actually helped me do that ironically enough. So maybe that's also something consider like how do you know, not use AI for certain Situations.
- [46:44]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah. So are you predominantly using Claude for everything? You mentioned custom GPTs. Does that mean you're using OpenAI? Are you talking, are you using the advanced voice mode in Chat GPT and then you're going over to Claude, or are you doing everything and Claude, I'm.
- [46:57]
Claire Bouvier
The Jambalaya queen because I use them so much. I know exactly what each one has personality wise. Like what does Image Generations. Claude does a diagram or the Gemini 2.5 that's come out. It's great for deep research. Then the O3 that just came out on ChatGPT is really good for doing a mini course for simplicity. So I have memorized just a bank of models that fit my workflow and it's very, very messy how I work.
- [47:30]
Michael Stelzner
That's cool. You're using the best tools for the best application instead of just relying on one. All right, Claire. Well, you mentioned somewhere in the middle of the interview that you had some potential prompts and stuff that you wanted to share with everyone. So first of all, share with people where they can follow you on the socials if they want to connect with you there. And then if they want to consider working with you, where do you want to send them? And then. And let's mention that link also, I.
- [47:56]
Claire Bouvier
Would say right now, pushing everyone either over to clairbouvier.com or bright light IO. If you're on LinkedIn, that's like a great. Just tell me. Listen to this episode. Happy to connect. LinkedIn is where the day to day is there. And stay tuned as we launch human first AI podcasts.
- [48:20]
Michael Stelzner
Did you end up making a URL like we were talking about? Clarabuvier.com SME Yes. Okay, so why don't you tell everybody what's going to happen when they go there and spell out how they can. Actually, not everybody's going to know how to spell your last name.
- [48:32]
Claire Bouvier
Everything we've talked about, people are going to say, okay. Oh my goodness. Yeah, give me the step by step. There will be a step by step from this episode. All the prompts that you can use or ideas that you can tap tackle and maybe things you can consider. It will be the cheat sheet from this episode I will give you. And as we discussed, it would be.
- [48:53]
Michael Stelzner
Is it clairebouvier.com SME Yes. Okay. Your last name is spelled B O U V I E R. Claire, thank you so much for coming on today's show and sharing your insights with us.
- [49:05]
Claire Bouvier
Thanks so much, Michael. You are a gem. It's been a pleasure.
- [49:09]
Michael Stelzner
Hey, if you missed anything which I'm sure you might have. We took all the notes for you@socialmediaexaminer.com A53 and if you want to do me a favor on this one year anniversary of our podcast, you can give me a shout out. That would be amazing. And if you want, you can tag me. I am active on Facebook. I'm Stelzner. I'm active on LinkedIn. I'm Elsner there as well and I'm also active on X. I'm Mike Underscore Stelzner there. So if you want to give us a little love, that'd be amazing. If not totally understand, you're a busy person. Also, check out our other shows, the Social Media Marketing Podcast and the Social Media Marketing Talk Show. This brings us to the end of the AI Explored Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner. I'll be back with you next week and I hope you make the best out of your day and may AI help you become more successful. The AI Explored Podcast is a production of Social Media Examiner. Just a quick reminder before you go. If you're ready to become indispensable in the age of AI, the AI Business Society is your solution. Join now and secure your discounted membership by visiting social mediaexaminer.com AI I can't wait to see you inside the AI Business Society.