AI Inside – Episode 65: The Era of Experience

Released April 23, 2025

Hosts: Jason Howell & Jeff Jarvis
Produced by: Yellowgold Studios

Introduction

In Episode 65 of AI Inside, titled "The Era of Experience," hosts Jason Howell and Jeff Jarvis delve into the evolving landscape of artificial intelligence, exploring its integration across various sectors, regulatory challenges, and ethical considerations. The episode navigates through pivotal news stories, insightful discussions, and expert opinions, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of AI's current trajectory and future prospects.

1. Google's Antitrust Trial and Its Implications

The episode opens with a discussion on Google's ongoing antitrust trial. Jason Howell highlights the Department of Justice's recommendation for Google to divest its Chrome browser as a punitive measure for unlawful practices in online search and advertising.

• Jason Howell [03:19]: "The company was found guilty of unlawful practices in online search and advertising in the US and as a result, the Department of Justice has recommended Google unload Chrome."

Jeff Jarvis expresses skepticism about OpenAI's announced interest in acquiring Chrome, likening it to a publicity stunt.

• Jeff Jarvis [04:05]: "It's a stunt. It's just like perplexity saying they're going to buy TikTok... I trust Google with Chrome a lot more than I would trust OpenAI."

The hosts debate the significance of the browser in today's AI-driven ecosystem, contemplating whether browsers remain the central hub for user interactions or if agentic AI could redefine this role.

2. The Future of Browsers in the AI Landscape

Jeff elaborates on the historical importance of browsers, referencing the early days of Netscape and Microsoft's browser wars. He questions whether the browser's role is diminishing as AI agents become more integrated.

• Jeff Jarvis [04:56]: "Google has always allowed others in, but..."

Jason counters by suggesting that despite the potential for OpenAI to develop its own browser, the intricacies involved might prevent such a move.

• Jason Howell [07:03]: "I don't think Google's going to have to sell Chrome. That's my hunch."

3. AI Integration in Mobile Devices: Assistants vs. Browsers vs. AI Apps

The conversation shifts to how users interact with AI on their smartphones. Jason shares his personal usage patterns, indicating a preference for launching specific AI apps like Perplexity over integrated assistants like Google's Gemini.

• Jason Howell [17:04]: "I don't use [Assistant] very often... I almost more inclined to launch the app, honestly, to do that either with Gemini or with Perplexity."

Jeff contrasts this with his reliance on browsers for most tasks, highlighting generational differences in AI adoption.

• Jeff Jarvis [19:20]: "I'm an old fart. So I mainly go to the browser."

They discuss the "stickiness" of AI models with user data, emphasizing how personalized experiences can lock users into specific ecosystems.

4. AI in Education: Government Integration and Ethical Concerns

A significant portion of the episode addresses the Trump administration's draft executive order proposing the integration of AI into K-12 education. Jason Howell expresses mixed feelings, recognizing the necessity of embracing AI while cautioning against hasty implementation.

• Jason Howell [35:41]: "I have not read the draft executive order in its entirety... but it feels so sudden and drastic to commit so quickly."

Jeff shares insights from academia, noting concerns about the readiness of educational institutions to adopt AI responsibly.

• Jeff Jarvis [36:52]: "This is not that easy to just say we're going to put AI into everything."

They advocate for a balanced approach that leverages AI's benefits without undermining educational integrity.

5. Insights from Demis Hassabis on 60 Minutes

Jason and Jeff review Demis Hassabis's appearance on 60 Minutes, where the DeepMind CEO discusses the timeline for Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and AI's potential to cure diseases.

• Jason Howell [28:12]: "Demis was basically saying AGI, as people define it very differently... at least 10 years down the line."

Jeff criticizes the overly optimistic projections, likening them to past technological solutionism.

• Jeff Jarvis [29:39]: "It's a turbocharged view of technological solutionism... this is 10 times hyper."

They acknowledge the impressive achievements of AI, such as DeepMind's AlphaFold, while urging for realistic expectations.

6. Google's Performance in LLMs vs. OpenAI: IEEE's Recognition

The hosts highlight a Business Insider article noting that Google is outperforming OpenAI in large language models (LLMs), with recognition from prestigious institutions like IEEE.

• Jeff Jarvis [54:03]: "It's the first time I've really seen major credit being given by somebody of as much stature as IEEE saying that."

This marks a shift in the AI competitive landscape, acknowledging Google's advancements in the field.

7. The Ethics of AI in Cheating: Startup Cluly's $5.3M Funding

Jason introduces the story of Cluly, a startup aiming to help users "secretly cheat" in various scenarios, raising $5.3 million in seed funding. The episode delves into the ethical debate surrounding AI-assisted cheating.

• Jeff Jarvis [55:44]: "They were embroiled in disciplinary proceedings at Columbia over the AI tool."

The hosts discuss the evolving definition of cheating in the age of AI, questioning its implications in education and professional settings.

• Jason Howell [57:47]: "Is cheating being unfair? Is cheating being opaque?"

They explore whether using AI tools like calculators parallels the use of AI for information retrieval, emphasizing the need to redefine academic integrity.

8. AI and the Oscars: Generative AI in Filmmaking

The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has updated its rules to allow films utilizing generative AI to compete for Oscars, provided human creativity remains central.

• Jason Howell [64:49]: "They're saying it's okay as long as there's a human involved... AI is just another tool."

Jeff draws parallels to past technological shifts, like the transition from typewriters to word processing, suggesting AI will similarly transform filmmaking without diminishing human artistry.

• Jeff Jarvis [66:02]: "You can still win a Pulitzer if you use a typewriter."

9. OpenAI Operational Challenges: The Cost of Politeness

The episode concludes with a revelation from OpenAI's CEO, Sam Altman, who disclosed that users frequently saying "please" and "thank you" to ChatGPT contribute to substantial operational and energy costs.

• Jason Howell [67:19]: "Users say please and thank you to ChatGPT... results in tens of millions of dollars in operational costs."

Jeff comments on the linguistic shift prompted by AI interactions, noting the paradox between economical language use in the digital age and AI's demand for more verbose inputs.

• Jeff Jarvis [68:03]: "Every time you say more, it costs money, it costs energy."

Conclusion

In "The Era of Experience," Jason Howell and Jeff Jarvis offer a nuanced exploration of AI's multifaceted impact on technology, society, and ethics. From regulatory battles and educational reforms to ethical dilemmas and operational challenges, the episode underscores the complexity of integrating AI into various aspects of human life. The hosts advocate for responsible and informed adoption, balancing innovation with ethical considerations to navigate the rapidly evolving AI landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeff Jarvis [04:05]: "I trust Google with Chrome a lot more than I would trust OpenAI."

• Jason Howell [17:04]: "I'm almost more inclined to launch the app, honestly, to do that either with Gemini or with Perplexity."

• Jeff Jarvis [29:39]: "This is a turbocharged view of technological solutionism... this is 10 times hyper."

• Jeff Jarvis [66:02]: "You can still win a Pulitzer if you use a typewriter."

• Jeff Jarvis [68:03]: "Every time you say more, it costs money, it costs energy."

Further Resources:

• Jeff Jarvis's Works: For those interested in exploring Jeff Jarvis's extensive contributions to media and technology, visit jeffjarvis.com.

• Patreon Support: Support AI Inside by becoming a patron at patreon.com/aiinsideshow.

Thank you for tuning into AI Inside. Stay informed and engaged with the latest in artificial intelligence and its profound impact on our world.