Does Removing Your Kids Screen Time Work? Ash Brandin

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: All About You With Dr Shauna Watts
Episode: Does Removing Your Kids Screen Time Work? (Guest: Ash Brandin)
Date: September 18, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr Shauna Watts explores the common parenting practice of removing children's screen time as a consequence for misbehavior, with guest expert Ash Brandin. Together, they discuss the motivations behind this strategy, its effectiveness, long-term impacts, and alternative approaches to encourage healthier habits and behaviors in families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Why Parents Remove Screen Time

• Initial Query: Dr Shauna asks Ash for thoughts on screen time withdrawal as punishment.
• Ash’s Perspective:
  • If withdrawing screens works and feels sustainable, parents can continue the approach.
  • Critical View: Removing gaming as a punishment essentially puts games on a pedestal, making them seem like “the big reward.”
    • “Removing gaming as a punishment is essentially incentivizing gaming. To me, it is a backwards way of making games a reward for doing something…” (Ash Brandin, 00:16)
• Key Analogy:
  • If you walk five miles for a Starbucks card, the focus is on the reward, not the activity. Similarly, using screens as a reward or punishment shifts children’s focus from the core task (like homework) to the reward (screens).
  • “The whole time you're walking to my house, you're not focusing on the walk, you're focusing on the reward.” (Ash Brandin, 01:23)

2. Consequences, Rewards, and Long-Term Outcomes

• Problem with Rewards:
  • This strategy can make screens seem even more special and devalue the required activity (e.g. homework or chores).
  • “When we do that, we are kind of sending the message that you should do your homework so that you get video games. And that's not a message I would personally want to send.” (Ash Brandin, 02:33)
• Sustainability:
  • Ongoing use of this approach can lead to problems when the reward is eventually withdrawn—children may stop completing the task if no longer “paid” with screen time.
  • “If you start with that, my question would be, what is your strategy to end this?... If I am rewarding you for something and then I stop, why would you keep doing it?” (Ash Brandin, 03:38)

3. Alternatives to Withdrawing Screen Time

• Focus on Natural, Logical Consequences:
  • Rather than defaulting to removing screens, consequences should be directly related to the behavior in question.
  • Example: If a child speaks inappropriately, practice respectful communication instead of losing screen time.
    • “They say something inappropriate… the consequence is now we are going to practice talking to each other.” (Ash Brandin, 05:12)
• Homework Example:
  • If homework isn’t done, then the next activity (possibly screens) gets delayed or skipped as a natural sequence of events—not an explicit punishment.
    • “So you said your homework was done. It's actually not. I'm so glad I checked. So now you get to do your homework. And I'm so glad we have this extra time before dinner and if there's any time left, we'll see, maybe we'll fit some screens in.” (Ash Brandin, 05:40)

4. When Is Screen Time Removal Appropriate?

• Behavior Related Directly to Screens:
  • If the misbehavior involves screens (e.g., sneaking a phone), a related consequence is appropriate.
    • “If, if it's I, you know, they're sneaking the phone, then yeah, the consequence should probably involve the phone.” (Ash Brandin, 07:15)
  • Even then, ensure the consequence is proportionate and practical for the family dynamic.
• Parental Burden:
  • Consider who the punishment actually impacts.
    • “We also have to make sure that the punishment is not disproportionately on us… I'm the one really dealing with the brunt of that.” (Ash Brandin, 07:29)

5. The Default Parenting Approach and Its Pitfalls

• Dr Shauna notes the ubiquity of withdrawing devices and the ineffectiveness in her own family.
  • “It doesn't work. I don't find well and also it depends…” (Dr Shauna Watts, 07:07)
• Emphasis is placed on considering sustainability and logical connections between actions and consequences.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Incentivizing Gaming:
  “If we say, if you don't do your homework, I will remove games, what you're actually saying is if you do your homework, you will get games.” (Ash Brandin, 00:36)

• On Creating Natural Consequences:
  “When I procrastinate something, something else has to go away. And to me that is a natural and logical consequence.” (Ash Brandin, 05:44)

• On Parental Strategy:
  “If someone's doing it, it's working, it's sustainable for you. Great. I'm genuinely envious. I think many people would love if it works long term, but I think it's a band aid and not always a long term strategy.” (Ash Brandin, 04:12)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:12 – Ash introduces key concerns about withdrawing screen time as a consequence.
• 01:20 – Analogy about rewards shifting focus from tasks.
• 03:38 – Discussion on sustainability and long-term implications.
• 05:12 – Alternatives to screen withdrawal: practicing the desired behavior.
• 05:40 – Logical consequences example: finishing homework means limited time left for screens.
• 07:15 – When withdrawal is relevant: if the misbehavior involves screens.
• 07:29 – “Who bears the brunt?”—acknowledging parental impact.

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Conclusion: Takeaways for Listeners

• Key Message: Removing screen time as a blanket consequence often backfires by making screens seem even more valuable and teaching children to perform tasks only for rewards.
• Actionable Insight: Create logical, behavior-related consequences—use the situation to teach life skills and naturally link outcomes to actions.
• Final Thought: Only use screen time restrictions when directly relevant, and always consider what is sustainable and reasonable for your entire family.

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For parents and caregivers, the episode provides a thoughtful, practical approach to discipline that fosters long-term intrinsic motivation and respects family dynamics.

Transcript

[A]

So, Ash, tell me what your thoughts are again. Lots of parents seem to use withdrawal of screen time as a punishment and I'd love to know your thoughts on that.

[B]

So the first thing I will say is if it is like if, if you're doing that and it feels like it's working for you and you feel like it's sustainable, that's a big thing I would encourage people to think about. Keep, keep doing it. Like I, I'm not going to tell people you should stop doing what you're doing. It's more. Just consider, consider these other things that could come up. Removing gaming as a punishment is essentially incentivizing gaming. To me, it is a backwards way of making games a reward for doing something because that is essentially what we're doing, right? If we say, if you don't do your homework, I will remove games, what you're actually saying is if you do your homework, you will get games.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You're saying it the other way around, but it's the same idea. And the problem with that is if we ask ourselves as the adult, what is our goal? Our goal is we want the homework to get done or whatever, right? I'm just using homework as an example. We want the homework to get done and we probably want games to not be the focus of their attention, right? We want them to focus on homework. We don't want them to focus on games. Okay, but if I said to you, if you walk over to my house, I live five miles from you, if you walk to my house, I will give you a Starbucks card, why are you walking to my house? Right. What are you focusing on? The whole time you're walking to my house, you're not focusing on the walk, you're focusing on the reward. So it shifts their focus away from the thing. We want to be a big deal. And it actually makes that feel like a requirement. And then it actually makes the reward screen feel like a really big deal, which is the opposite of what we want. So we end up making the requirement feel lesser and the screen feel like this on a pedestal, super special thing. And that's generally the opposite of what we want. We don't want them to be preoccupied with screens. We don't want it to feel like a big deal. But when we do that, we are kind of sending the message that you should do your homework so that you get video games. And that's not a message I would personally want to send. I want my kid to do their homework because I want them learning and I want them to get, you know, better at whatever they're doing. Um, I don't want them doing homework to get screens. And same thing with like chores, you know, I don't want my kid, my kids chores. They clean, they clean toilets, which sounds like I'm punishing them, but like it's actually, they chose it and they're very good at it. They're great at cleaning a toilet. But you know, I want them cleaning a toilet because that's contributing to our household. Right. It's not my job to, to contribute to our household on my own. Right. I want them doing that because they need to learn that we all contribute to where we live. I don't want them thinking I clean toilets to get screens because that means they think that the only reason to do something required is if you get something. And that is an association that I just don't think is a very sustainable one. If you start with that, my question would be, what is your strategy to end this? How do you see this ending? Because if I am rewarding you for something and then I stop, why would you keep doing it? And in many cases you wouldn't. Where you might reasonably ask me, why am I not getting the screen anymore? Why am I not getting this reward anymore? And when the reward goes away now we're back into the same power struggle. So again, if someone's doing it, it's working, it's sustainable for you. Great. I'm genuinely envious. I think many people would love if it works long term, but I think it's a band aid and not always a long term strategy.

[A]

And so in terms of, let's say you had a child who had been naughty or done the wrong thing and their routine was regularly, that they did homework and then they got to have some screen time and then they go to soccer training or whatever. Would you be saying that you wouldn't include removal of that gaming in the consequence?

[B]

I mean, is there naughtiness related to the screen?

[A]

It's an imaginary person. But no, probably not.

[B]

I probably wouldn't. Like if, if, if they're naughty and like, if they've, if they've done something that I think is behaviorally inappropriate, I would be thinking, okay, how can I give them an opportunity to correct this behavior? That's the consequence.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

They say something inappropriate to me. Right, okay. The consequence is now we are going to practice talking to each other. We're gonna do that interaction again and make, and make sure that you can express to me how you're feeling in a way that is Appropriate to talk to your parent or another human being. Right. Because everyone deserves to be spoken to respectfully.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay, we're gonna try that again and maybe it means that we are taking a break. Maybe it means that we have to process or calm down or what have you. Right. If it's kid did not do their homework, right, we said it's homework time and they chose not to do it. Well, what comes after homework is, is what comes after homework screens, then my response would be oh, okay. So you said your homework was done. It's actually not. I'm so glad I checked. So now you get to do your homework. And I'm so glad we have this extra time before dinner and if there's any time left, we'll see, maybe we'll fit some screens in. Because that messaging is when I procrastinate something, something else has to go away. And to me that is a natural and logical consequence. If the next activity were something else required. Right. Then I would be just bumping us down the road until we run into something that's flexible and then it's okay. Well, turns out we have to truncate whatever thing because we have to fit this in. Um, but yeah, I, I personally would not be removing the access to screens for an unrelated behavior. Um, because I'm not sure how connected that would feel to them.

[A]

Yeah, I, I agree with being used a lot as a strategy. You know, if kids having their phones withdrawn and things like that. So it's just a, a default that I think a lot of parents fall into is like we're going to take your phone away or we're going to take your access to gaming away. Which I'll be honest, we have done in house. Which it, it doesn't work. I don't find well and also it

[B]

depends, you know, is the behavior happening on a phone? Is the behavior happening on a screen different conversation. Right. If, if it's I, you know, they're sneaking the phone, then yeah, the consequence should probably involve the phone.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It might not mean total removal, but yeah, probably it should be phone related or whatever. Related. Right. I'm not saying it should never happen happen but the other thing is, and I mean this seriously, but it's also kind of tongue in cheek like we also have to make sure that the punishment is not disproportionately on us. Like if we are saying I'm going to remove the phone or I'm going to remove your access to video games, but I use their game time to work, answer email or make dinner, then what are we filling that with? Because now I'm bearing the brunt of that, and if it's not related and I'm removing it, I'm the one really dealing with the brunt of that. Or if I'm removing their phone, okay, can I contact them? Is this a kid who's out and about? And I still have to contact them because then that kind of gets into a whole other place. So making sure that it feels like something that, again, sustainable and enforceable for. For you, as well as reasonable and related for them.

[A]

When I started this podcast back in December 23rd, I knew that I was lucky enough to have amazing conversations with various health professionals across all facets of medicine and allied health. And I knew that you would probably really enjoy being a fly on the wall to hear what we talked about. And that's how the podcast was born. And what you probably don't know is that this is a bit of a passion project. We don't have any sponsors or funding, and without your help, we won't be able to continue bringing you these great guests. So if you can, please spread the word about the podcast, share it with someone who you think might benefit from the conversation that you've just listened to. Or if you can leave us a review or a comment, it would mean the absolute world, because that actually helps the podcast spread further and get more people to hear our message and hopefully allow us to invite bigger and bigger guests onto the show. And I would so appreciate you helping me back. Thank you. This podcast and any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, healthcare, or other professional advice. Information is provided for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you have any health concerns, always consult your doctor.