A Father Finds Comfort in Community Theater in the New Film 'Ghostlight'

Summary

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All Of It on WNYC — A Father Finds Comfort in Community Theater in the New Film 'Ghostlight'

Date: June 13, 2024
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guests: Kelly O’Sullivan (writer & co-director), Alex Thompson (co-director), Keith Kupferer (actor)
Film Discussed: Ghostlight (in theaters this weekend)

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the indie film "Ghostlight," a heartfelt and moving family drama exploring grief, healing, and connection through the unlikely setting of community theater. Host Kusha Navadar speaks with the film’s creative team and star about channeling real-life emotions, drawing inspiration from isolation, and the transformative potential of theater—both on and off the screen. The conversation weaves family, art, loss, and recovery, echoing the film’s themes of building comfort and resilience through communal creativity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Inspirations Behind "Ghostlight"

• Writing Through Isolation
  Kelly O’Sullivan shares that she wrote the script during the COVID-19 social isolation period, channeling her longing for community and missing her life as a Chicago theater actor.
  • Quote:

    "I was feeling, I think, like a lot of people, incredibly lonely when I started writing it in March of 2021 ... longing for community and to have the connection that I think a lot of us were lacking during that time."
    — Kelly O’Sullivan (04:25)

2. Family at the Heart—On and Off Screen

• Real-life married actors, Keith Kupferer and Tara Mallen, star as on-screen couple Dan and Sharon, alongside their real daughter Catherine as Daisy.

• The family’s real intimacy brings authenticity and depth to the film’s family dynamic.

  • Quote:

    "Having our daughter join was really joyful. There was this built-in chemistry and relationships that we didn’t have to work at."
    — Keith Kupferer (09:09)

• The creators note how this authenticity influenced both the script and the way scenes were shot.

  • Quote:

    "We literally sort of shifted our focus at certain moments ... It became clear really, really early on in shooting that Catherine was going to be, like, taking up similar narrative space."
    — Alex Thompson (10:51)

3. Depicting Grief: The Emotional Core

• Kupferer’s character, Dan, is a construction worker struggling after a "tremendous loss." The story centers on his bottled emotions, struggles in parenting, and explosive moments as he copes with unresolved grief.

• The pivotal deposition scene marks Dan’s subtle step toward healing—Kupferer highlights this as the script’s "centerpiece."

  • Quote:

    "That centerpiece was really... as an actor, that's what drew me to it."
    — Keith Kupferer (05:40)

• O’Sullivan and Thompson discuss their approach to letting emotions unravel naturally, mirroring real-life suppression rather than dramatics.

  • Quote:

    "So many actors... want to cry, to let out so much emotion and to emote, and that's gonna be the most interesting thing. But it is so difficult... because they don't let out that emotion most of the time... He would try to push it back down..."
    — Kelly O’Sullivan (14:37)

4. Community Theater: Healing & Play

• Dan is drawn to a local community theater troupe, initially skeptical but gradually finding it an outlet for suppressed feelings.

• The podcast features a film clip where Rita, the stubborn and talented troupe lead, invites Dan into the world of rehearsal.

  • Quote (from the film clip):

    "Your salvation. I'm kidding. Rehearsing a play. Everyone, this is Dan... Everyone is replaceable."
    — Rita (Character, 15:23)

• The directors emphasize the therapeutic value and transformative joy in amateur theater.

  • Quote:

    "It's so joyful, because it's not about money or fame. It's like people are doing it because they love it."
    — Kelly O’Sullivan (16:19)

  • Quote:

    "Just like when we play as kids, it's also something we take seriously... these actors want to get it right..."
    — Alex Thompson (16:41)

5. The Process of Acting—From Bad to Good

• Kupferer discusses how he intentionally portrayed Dan’s amateur acting, relying on "cold reads" and resisting preparation to capture genuine awkwardness.

  • Quote:

    "Whatever the Shakespeare passage I had, I would just cold read it and not prepare for it... not prepare to do the scene and it'll work that way."
    — Keith Kupferer (18:31)

• He also praises his wife Tara Mallen’s less showy but emotionally demanding role.

  • Quote:

    "She also has to not be able to grieve and hold that emotion together, but also move forward for everyone in the family."
    — Keith Kupferer (19:09)

6. The Power of Art and Collaboration

• Both on the film set and within the story, communal creativity is presented as a catalyst for growth, understanding, and reconciliation.

  • Quote:

    "You create something together, and you enjoy it and you work with people ... it's just gonna happen naturally to bring you closer."
    — Keith Kupferer (20:58)

• Thompson explains how theater, by offering structured freedom and collective vulnerability, fosters change and healing.

  • Quote:

    "That combination of preparations, you sort of have to open yourself up and see what the other person is bringing. It inspires change. It inspires experimentation... I think theater's a place where that's possible."
    — Alex Thompson (21:43)

• O’Sullivan, who was eight months pregnant during filming, reflects on how the experience deepened her relationship with Thompson and the rest of the team.

  • Quote:

    "Working together in a collaborative way artistically... I find it to be incredibly expansive... The way that we have gotten to know each other is just so layered now."
    — Kelly O’Sullivan (22:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the impact of acting and community theater:

  "All he wants in the world, is to not be himself. And so it's an escape into a different life. And he doesn't know that the life that he's escaping into actually is very close to what he's going through."
  — Kelly O’Sullivan (17:55)

• On acting poorly, then well:

  "There actually is a school of thought... to purposely act badly in this exercise to find the text and then just really your idea of bad acting and then do it."
  — Keith Kupferer (18:31)

• On art in family and healing:

  "It's this beautiful explanation of what art does to our lives, I think."
  — Kusha Navadar (21:17)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:25] – O’Sullivan on writing during COVID isolation
• [05:40] – Kupferer on what drew him to Dan and the pivotal deposition scene
• [09:09] – Keith Kupferer on working with his real family on screen
• [10:51] – Thompson on how Katherine Kupferer’s performance changed the film’s focus
• [14:37] – O’Sullivan on acting choices and the realism of grief
• [15:23] – Clip: Dan’s awkward introduction to community theater
• [16:19] – O’Sullivan on the spirit of community theater
• [17:55] – On Dan’s motivation to return to the troupe
• [18:31] – Kupferer on how to act "badly"
• [20:58] – Kupferer on how the filming brought his actual family closer
• [21:43] – Thompson on why theater is transformative

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Conclusion

The conversation dives deep into "Ghostlight’s" layered approach to grief, family, and creativity, illuminated by honest performances and collaborative spirit both in front of and behind the camera. The filmmakers and star reflect on their own bonds—professional and familial—as mirroring the healing journey of their characters, highlighting the enduring power of both community and theater.

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Transcript

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[Kusha Navadar]

All right, unk.

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Welcome to McDonald's.

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[Kelly O'Sullivan]

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[Keith Kupfer]

Press, Your station is WNYC, 93.9 FM, AMA20, NPR News and the New York Conversation.

[Kusha Navadar]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kusha Navadar in for Alison Stewart. The new film Ghostlight is a true family affair. It was co directed by Alex Thompson and Kelly o', Sullivan, who are a real life couple. At the center of the film are a married couple, Dan and Sharon and their daughter Daisy, played by two married actors and their daughter Catherine. So it makes sense that the real life intimacy shared between these three actors translates to their on Screen family In this touching and heartbreaking film, Keith Kupfer is starring as a construction worker named Dan, whose life seems to be fall apart in the wake of a tremendous loss. Dan and his wife Sharon struggle to parent their daughter Daisy, who is nearly expelled from school for her behavior. Dan bottles up his emotions. He explodes at unexpected times. He can't seem to figure out how to help his daughter or cope with his grief. But all that changes when Dan finds himself unexpectedly enticed to join a local theater troupe by a stubborn and talented woman named Rita. Dan had never read Romeo and Juliet before, and he has certainly never act. At first, he's pretty terrible. But Dan soon finds that acting can cause him to open up in a way that he was never able to before. Ghost Light is in theaters this weekend, and I'm joined now by writer and co director Kelly o' Sullivan and co director Alex Thompson. Hello. And star Keith Kupfer. Hello. Nice to see you. So, Kelly, this is a script you worked on during the COVID social isolation period. Did any part of this story's inspiration draw from experience of being isolated?

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Yeah, absolutely. I was feeling, I think, like a lot of people, incredibly lonely when I started writing it in March of 2021, and I'm a Chicago theater actor, and all of the theaters were closed. So it really came out of this longing for community and to have the connection that I think a lot of us were lacking during that time.

[Kusha Navadar]

And, you know, for you, Alex, I read that you always actually had Keith in mind for this role. Tell me about that. What drew you to him?

[Alex Thompson]

Well, Keith is an actor who I think anybody who lives in Chicago know, other folks across the country would know his work, too, from film and television. But he's just. I think. I don't know that there's anybody who could accomplish the pathos, the humor, be believably blue collar, but also, you know, end up on stage and in sort of this unexpected role. Keith's just one of those, like, dream actors that when you get to work with, you take the opportunity. So.

[Kusha Navadar]

Absolutely. Keith, what drew you to the role?

[Keith Kupfer]

First of all, that was very nice of you.

[Kusha Navadar]

Thank you.

[Alex Thompson]

It was under pressure, too.

[Keith Kupfer]

Yeah, I know.

[Kusha Navadar]

You know, that's my favorite part of these interviews, is asking people what they like about the other person in the room.

[Keith Kupfer]

What drew me to the role, I think, was the. Sure. The. The. Well, the script, when we read it around the table, I really identified with this character and particularly the deposition scene where he kind of unloads a little bit of what he's been carrying around. And even though he shoots himself in the foot, as far as his legal strategy is concerned, I think it begins to. He begins the steps of his eventual finding some peace down the road. We never really see that, but you can see that at least he's starting to move that way. And when we read that scene in particular, it was a long scene and a very layered scene. So that centerpiece was really the. As an actor, that's what drew me to it.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah, that scene was very moving for me. When I watched it, it seemed so tastefully done and so emotionally charged. I'm wondering what kind of conversations you three had. Maybe, Alex, we can start with you just thinking about how you wanted to let emotions come out that before the movie seemed like they were really bottled up. Can you talk a little bit about how you approached that scene?

[Alex Thompson]

Yeah. I mean, one thing we did was we photographed in the same way we photographed the rehearsal scenes. Which is which. The rehearsal scenes for those listening are full of joy. They're full of expression, sort of this opportunity for expression as well. And a legal deposition does not seem to be that on its face. But for Dan, this is this moment, you know, without spoiling anything, is the first step towards, like Keith said, a kind of peace. And so photographing it as if it was a performance with all the truth and honesty you'd hope for from a performance meant kind of keeping kind of a bit away from Dan, like letting Keith do the heavy lifting and sort of getting out of the way of the writing.

[Kusha Navadar]

And, Kelly, can you talk a little bit just so listeners are aware, like, what the context is without revealing too much of it? I mean, there's a wrongful death suit that's going on. Some of the emotions at play there.

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Yeah. The family has raised a lawsuit against someone who they're angry with, who they believe is at fault for this terrible tragedy. And we won't give it away, but they've gone through a terrible tragedy in their personal life. And so Dan, in particular, feeling incredibly vengeful for most of the film, and that's why they've raised this lawsuit. And then again, not to give too much away, but he undergoes this journey throughout the movie, but then especially towards the end of it, in this final deposition scene where he sort of has a realization about maybe he has more complex feelings.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. We're here with Kelly o', Sullivan, who's the writer and director, and Alex Thompson, who's a co director of Ghostlight, which is in theaters this weekend. We're Also here with Keith Kupferver, who is the star. And, Keith, this was a real family affair for you, which I loved learning about when I was first watching and then reading about the movie. Your daughter in the film, Daisy, is played by your real life daughter, Catherine. And your wife in the film is played by your wife, Tara Mollen. What was it like working with your family but creating a completely different family dynamic?

[Keith Kupfer]

Well, Tara and I had worked together several times over the years, so that was just another opportunity to play together again. But having our daughter join was really joyful. And there was this built in. Obviously this built in chemistry and relationships that we didn't have to work at. And a lot of times in between takes, we'd be talking to one another or maybe disagreeing about something, and Kelly and Alex would say, yeah, let's get some of that. Because that's a dynamic that, you know, is. Is honest and is truthful. So it was. The trust was there, and we were able to play with each other as actors without second guessing ourselves.

[Kusha Navadar]

What were some of the relationship dynamics that came easily to you that you kind of had in your back pocket to begin?

[Keith Kupfer]

Just the way we talk to one another, the way Katherine would push the boundaries, and the way we would react to it, which I think was a dynamic that kind of grew out of us being together the first five days in the house, I believe. Alex, at some point you said that you realized, maybe, Daisy, we're gonna have to rethink this kind of relationship.

[Alex Thompson]

Yeah, yeah. Catherine was really not unexpected because we knew that she was an incredibly talented actor, but the dynamics were unexpected and how dynamic Catherine was on screen. I think there was a moment when we thought that this was really Dan's story and that the family was the co star. And it became clear really, really early on in shooting that Catherine was going to be, like, taking up similar narrative space. So it was really exciting. And it means that the way that we filmed it changed. We literally sort of shifted our focus at certain moments.

[Kusha Navadar]

Was there any part of the script that changed as a result? Was it the story or really just the way that you shot it? And can you go into a little bit more detail about that?

[Alex Thompson]

Yeah, just the way that we shot. Truly, the scene that I'm thinking of is there's a dinner table conversation where they're discussing this upcoming deposition. And initially, the scene was just gonna be Keith and a wide shot of the family. And Catherine has this incredible line which, you know, typical of Kelly's writing. Great actors bring out these great moments, and suddenly you're sort of. You're falling in love with the whole script all over again. And we just moved the camera in, and we're like, we've got to. We've got to see what this feels like in a close up. And it just popped. And Katherine just popped. And we said, okay, I guess that's how we're gonna do it from here on out. You know, Katherine and Keith are sort of driving the ship in some ways.

[Kusha Navadar]

Well, you know, we have a clip from the movie of Daisy with her parents. And Daisy's melting down as a school administrator is talking about her potentially being expelled. This is from the beginning of the movie. The perfect time to play it. Let's listen to that clip.

[Daisy (Character in Ghost Light)]

So Mrs. Cofield says that alleges Daisy.

[Alex Thompson]

What?

[Daisy (Character in Ghost Light)]

It's her word against mine.

[Keith Kupfer]

Give it a rest.

[Daisy (Character in Ghost Light)]

And I honestly, I don't think we should be trusting a woman who uses the word irregardless in a school setting. A professional educator.

[McDonald's Commercial Voice]

Okay.

[Alex Thompson]

She alleges that Daisy pushed her.

[MultiCare Commercial Voice]

Ow.

[Kusha Navadar]

That didn't hurt.

[Daisy (Character in Ghost Light)]

You can't tell me what hurts?

[Keith Kupfer]

Pushed, as in physically?

[Kusha Navadar]

Two hands in front of the class.

[Daisy (Character in Ghost Light)]

Is that true?

[McDonald's Commercial Voice]

No.

[Daisy (Character in Ghost Light)]

I tried to go to the bathroom, which is my human right, and she used her disgusting body to block my way. Ask anyone in that class. Ask Bailey. They'll all tell you that. I asked nicely three times. She actually said I couldn't go. I mean, like, what, you just want me to pee right here in this seat? Are you gonna clean it up? And I didn't shove. Shoving is this bitch move? Hey, I did this. Will you move your gross body, please?

[Kusha Navadar]

Kelly, you're listening to Daisy there. And in the movie, what's Dan's approach to trying to help Daisy?

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

I think he's trying to tune everything out. He's not super helpful in the beginning of the film. And that's part of the journey that he has to go on is because of this tragedy he's really disassociated from. And he's sort of letting his wife take on all of the work and the labor of keeping the family together. And that's part of why Daisy is so angry, is she senses that her father's completely checked out. And I think that, you know, she's challenging him in a very unconscious way by having all of these actions that he can't ignore by, you know, pushing a teacher at the school. There's a scene where she walks out in the middle of the street and she's trying to get his attention because he's so desperately trying to escape his own life.

[Kusha Navadar]

You see that the emotions are right under the surface for Dan, for so much of. I'm wondering, from your perspective, what was it about Keith's performance that you feel like, just really got Dan right?

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

I mean, everything. I think the way that he modulated that sort of simmering underneath, because so many actors, there's this tendency to want to cry, to want to let out so much emotion and to emote, and that. That's gonna be the most interesting thing. And it is so difficult, like, painful, to watch actual people try to deal with that kind of tragedy because they don't let out that emotion most of the time. And so I think watching Keith really, you know, take care with the way every emotion would spring up. He would try to push it back down, which I think is actually what you witness most often in real life.

[Kusha Navadar]

Well, let's listen to another clip from the film. This is when Rita invites Dan to come inside and help him with a table read. Let's listen to it.

[Keith Kupfer]

What's this?

[McDonald's Employee Voice]

Your salvation. I'm kidding. Rehearsing a play. Everyone, this is.

[Keith Kupfer]

Dan.

[McDonald's Employee Voice]

Dan is the new Aaron. Everyone is replaceable.

[Kusha Navadar]

Here's a space to your heart.

[WNYC Announcer]

Come on.

[Keith Kupfer]

No, I. Come on. I don't. I'm not an actor.

[McDonald's Employee Voice]

Can you read?

[WNYC Announcer]

Did he audition?

[Keith Kupfer]

Do you have a monologue we can see? Something classic. I should.

[McDonald's Employee Voice]

What? Where do you have to be? Sit down and play pretend for an hour, and then you can go back to your life.

[Kusha Navadar]

That's from the movie Ghost Light. I saw you all chuckling when one of the characters was asking if they have a monologue, Something classical. And when I was watching this, I thought, man, I love community theater.

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Yeah, it's so fun. It's so joyful, because it's not about money or fame. It's like people are doing it because they love it. And so that's. It's sort of, like, childlike in that way of saying, let's get our friends together and put on a show.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. Alex, what did you want to get right about community theater? About the way that it works in this movie? Because I thought that it was such a lovely description of these people coming together, Like Kelly was saying.

[Alex Thompson]

Well, I think the way it is in the script is that it is a. Just like, when we play as kids, it's also something we take seriously. You know, these actors want to get it right. You know, they're. They're here to do the work, you know? I love that. I love that for Some reason, none of them bat an eye. When Rita says everyone is replaceable, like, this is like something that, like a. An army general would say to the troops. And. And she.

[Kusha Navadar]

And she's like, I don't know.

[Alex Thompson]

She commands the room in such a way that I think I've seen a lot of directors, a lot of, you know, you need that strong leader who's going to say, like, you guys, maybe you want to think that this is a joke, but it's not a joke. I think that those are the rooms that I remember when I was kind of coming up in that world.

[Kusha Navadar]

And why do you think Dan returns to the theater after that first night?

[Alex Thompson]

I mean, I think he wants to. I think he sees something in the way that these people are interacting. I think he feels something in the language that makes him believe he could try on a different approach to processing. I really do think he sees the light, so to speak.

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Yeah. Rita says it seems like you'd want to be somebody else for a while. And that's all he wants in the world, is to not be himself. And so it's an escape into a different life. And he doesn't know that the life that he's escaping into actually is very close to what he's going through.

[Kusha Navadar]

And, Keith, this is the part of the movie that really spoke to me. I mean, one of my favorite kinds of performances is watching great actors play characters who are trying to act, learning how to act great. And I was wondering for you, what did you bring to that? How did you want Dan to. To come off when he was trying to act? How did you act? Poorly. Trying to turn great?

[Keith Kupfer]

Well, there are. There actually is a school of thought that if you. Or an exercise, I guess, to purposely act badly in this exercise to find the text and then just really your idea of bad acting and then do it. But I mean, for the most part, I just decided that whatever the Shakespeare passage I had, I would just cold read it and not prepare for it.

[Alex Thompson]

And.

[Keith Kupfer]

And that way it would be bad just on its face. I've watched bad actors, and I've been sort of bad myself in things, and I just. The thing is just not prepare to do the scene, and it'll work that way. It's. It's. It's basically just sticking with the character that you've developed and saying lines as poorly as possible. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I would like to say that my wife Tara has the less showy role, I would say, but what she has to do is really difficult for an actor, because she also has to not be able to grieve and hold that emotion together, but also move forward for everyone in the family. Whereas Dan has sort of selfishly allowed himself to be sort of destroyed by this and not. He's not an attentive father enough. He's certainly not an attentive husband or really conscientious worker anymore. So it's hit him harder. And maybe it's because of the guilt he feels, but nevertheless, I think Tara really delivers the goods.

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Alex Thompson]

She's incredible in this film.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. Do you feel like this experience has brought your family closer together on the other side of it?

[Keith Kupfer]

I think so, yeah. If you get to create something together, I don't think it and you enjoy it and you work with people like Kelly and Alex and everyone else on this project, it's just. It's gonna happen naturally to bring you closer.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. And, you know, I'm looking at the time here, but it's this beautiful. Not even metaphor, just this beautiful explanation of what art does to our lives, I think. And I'm wondering for both of you, Alex, let's start with you. Why do you think theater is able to help this family that we see in the movie? What about it unlocks for Dan the ability to experience grief and all of these other elements that the family is experiencing?

[Alex Thompson]

You know, I was just talking to famed legendary actor Lois Smith about this. This morning with theater, you prepare, and you come to rehearsal, and all the other actors have prepared, and the department heads have prepared, and then you all come together. And that sort of. That combination of preparations, you sort of have to open yourself up and see what the other person is bringing. And it just. It inspires change. It inspires experimentation. And these are all the kind of the things that we need to change as people and to grow as people. Like, we talk all the time about how our brains are plastic, they're moldable, but we so rarely actually see that change in others. And I think theater's a place where that's possible.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. And how about for you two, since you are together as well, has this experience brought you closer together?

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, also, because I was eight months pregnant when we were filming, we were in the process of making a family of our own. And so now our son Milo is literally a room away with our wonderful friend Guillermo. And so it's, you know, working together in a collaborative way artistically, and while working with an actual family who we now love and are dear friends of ours. I find it to be incredibly expansive I think the way that we have gotten to know each other is just so layered now because of all the different ways that we've interacted. And we're gonna keep going.

[Kusha Navadar]

It's such a layered movie. It's Ghost Light. It's in theaters this weekend. We've been talking to Kelly o', Sullivan, who's the writer and co director, Ale Thompson, who's the co director, and Keith Kupfer, who is the star. Thank you all three so much for your work.

[Kelly O'Sullivan]

Thank you for having us.

[McDonald's Commercial Voice]

I'm gonna put you on, nephew.

[Kusha Navadar]

All right, unk.

[McDonald's Employee Voice]

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

[McDonald's Commercial Voice]

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.

[MultiCare Commercial Voice]

For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn [e-mail].