A Historical Fiction Novel About the First Black Woman to Helm 'The Crisis'

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: A Historical Fiction Novel About the First Black Woman to Helm 'The Crisis'

Air Date: August 24, 2025
Guest: Victoria Christopher Murray
Topic: Exploring “Harlem Rhapsody,” a historical fiction novel about Jessie Redmon Fauset, the first Black woman literary editor of 'The Crisis'

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on Victoria Christopher Murray’s latest historical fiction novel, “Harlem Rhapsody,” which revives the remarkable, often overlooked life of Jessie Redmon Fauset. Fauset, a pivotal figure in cultivating the Harlem Renaissance as the first Black woman to helm the NAACP’s magazine 'The Crisis', is depicted as both literary midwife and resilient editor. The episode dives into Fauset’s historical significance, her relationships with major Harlem Renaissance figures, and how historical fiction can bring these lesser-told stories to light.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jessie Redmon Fauset’s Historical Impact

• Fauset is described as the "midwife of the Harlem Renaissance," renowned for mentoring groundbreaking writers like Langston Hughes, Countee Cullen, and Nella Larsen.
• She also created 'The Brownies’ Book,' the first magazine for Black children ([00:09]–[01:04]).

2. Victoria Christopher Murray’s Motivation & Research

• Murray, a writer herself, was first drawn to the Harlem Renaissance when looking for an engaging historical figure to dedicate years of research and writing to ([02:22]).
• She found Fauset obscured in scholarly sources, typically only referenced in connection to W.E.B. Du Bois, until discovering suggestions of a romantic affair between them ([03:07]–[03:49]).

  “There were no articles about just her at first... she was attached to this man.” — Victoria Christopher Murray ([03:07])

• She read extensively (biographies, JSTOR articles), gained voice insights, and rooted fictionalized moments in historical fact ([08:24]–[09:22]).

3. Historical Fiction: Balancing Fact & Imagination

• Every scene is “anchored in history”—where Fauset was, who she met, real-life events—then filled out with plausible dialogue and interior life ([08:24]–[09:22]).

  “That’s why I study the characters first before I even write a word. I have read every biography, everything that I can to get their voices...” — Victoria Christopher Murray ([08:49])

4. Fauset’s Early Life, Career, and Family

• Fauset’s academic prowess: valedictorian, Cornell graduate, studied in France, initially a teacher at Dunbar High (Washington, D.C.) ([04:06]–[06:14]).
• Strong influence from her Jewish stepmother, Bella, who was committed to racial integration and urged Jessie’s ambition:

  “Her stepmother made Jessie very aware of who she was, but pushed her to the greatest limits.” — Victoria Christopher Murray ([04:52])

• Their complex relationship reflects broader themes of identity and societal expectation ([04:49]–[06:00]).

5. Harlem in the Early 20th Century

• Harlem as epicenter of emerging Black pride, culture, and talent against the backdrop of ongoing segregation and violence elsewhere ([06:45]–[08:14]).

  “They have all of these achievements, but they’re still second-class citizens ... Harlem was this little corner of America where Black pride was growing while people were being lynched.” — Victoria Christopher Murray ([07:03])

6. The Crisis Magazine’s Role & Fauset’s Contribution

• 'The Crisis' was the most influential Black periodical of its day, both nationally and for Black and white audiences ([09:22]–[09:31]).
• Fauset made literary editing central, nurturing young voices like Langston Hughes—turning what Du Bois viewed as a side project into a genuine movement ([11:19]).

7. W.E.B. Du Bois: Mentor, Editor, Lover

• Du Bois’s stated goal: arm Black America with truthful reporting and foster an informed citizenry ([10:11]–[10:19]).
• His recruitment of Fauset had personal as well as professional motives; their five-year affair was an open secret ([10:17]–[11:34]).

  “The reason he brought Jessie ... had nothing to do with The Crisis. They were having an affair.” — Victoria Christopher Murray ([10:17])

8. Mentoring the Next Generation

• Fauset’s nurturing yet stringent editing style helped launch careers and support young writers through personal struggles ([15:17]–[16:19]).
• She was pivotal in making 'The Brownies’ Book' a nurturing platform for Black children ([16:23]–[17:17]).

9. Barriers as a Black Woman

• Even as an elite professional, Fauset had to repeatedly prove herself within the Black literary community, facing sexism from both white and Black colleagues ([17:28]–[18:43]).

10. Notable Readings & Moments

• Murray reads an excerpt: Fauset meets a young Countee Cullen after church, highlighting intersectional issues within even the Harlem literary elite ([12:22]–[15:04]).

  “This color boy will never touch her, not even in New York.” — Excerpt from Harlem Rhapsody ([14:00])

11. Victoria Christopher Murray on Writing

• Candid advice for aspiring writers:

  “Writers write. You cannot call yourself a writer if you’re not writing. ... Writers read. The best writers are readers.” — Victoria Christopher Murray ([20:22])

• On her career: lifelong passion for writing, embracing both challenges and changes in reception ([18:49]–[19:58]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “She was the midwife of the Harlem Renaissance.” — Victoria Christopher Murray describing Langston Hughes’s tribute to Fauset ([02:22])
• “I have no idea what they spoke about. … But I can extrapolate … that’s why I study the characters first.” — Victoria Christopher Murray on historical fiction process ([08:49])
• “She brought his vision to life for him, and she fell in love with it as well.” — On Fauset launching ‘The Brownies’ Book’ ([16:27])
• “You can never lose your cool. You can never … so that they could say, see, I knew she was a woman.” — On navigating sexism in the literary field ([18:14])
• “My first masterpiece [written at age 7] … you can if you plagiarize.” — Murray, humorously reflecting on her early writing ([18:57])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:09] – Introduction to Jessie Redmon Fauset & her legacy
• [02:22] – What drew Victoria Christopher Murray to Fauset
• [03:07] – Early research & the Du Bois connection
• [04:06] – Fauset’s teaching career and stepmother’s influence
• [06:45] – Harlem’s historical context and its contradictions
• [08:24] – Writing historical fiction: anchoring in fact
• [09:22] – The importance and influence of The Crisis magazine
• [10:11] – Du Bois’s goals and their complex professional/personal relationship
• [12:22] – Read-aloud: Fauset meets Countee Cullen
• [15:17] – Fauset’s nurturing of young writers
• [16:23] – The creation and impact of The Brownies’ Book
• [17:28] – Fauset’s challenges as a woman in publishing
• [18:49] – Murray’s own writing journey & advice for writers
• [20:22] – Concluding writing advice

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Flow & Tone

The conversation is both erudite and engaging, with a lively, respectful exchange between Allison Stewart and Victoria Christopher Murray. Murray’s passion for both her subject and the craft of writing comes through vividly. Her research rigor and love for New York’s history is balanced with humor and empathy, especially when exploring the intricate realities of race, gender, and creative ambition in Fauset’s world.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

This episode offers a rare window into the legacy of a foundational but overlooked cultural architect. Whether you’re interested in Black history, women’s impact in literature, the Harlem Renaissance, or the craft of historical fiction, the discussion offers inspiration, context, and new appreciation of Jessie Redmon Fauset—and those who fight to preserve her story.

Transcript

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Foreign.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're continuing our producer picks week with a few of all of it producer Elle Malik Anderson's favorite conversations. Now we hear about an historic novel about the woman who nurtured the literary Harlem Renaissance. Her name is Jessie Redmond Fawcett. In 1919, she packs up her bags and moves to Harlem. She arrives for her dream job, the literary editor for the NAACP's official magazine, the Crisis. She's the first black woman to serve in this position. And this is all true, by the way. Through her role as editor, she discovered and mentored young writers such as Countee Cullen, Nella Larson, and Langston Hughes. She also helped create the beloved children's magazine, the Brownies Book. Okay, Malik, I knew about Jesse Rubin Fawcett because she was a teacher at Dunbar High School. What did you know about her?

[Elle Malik Anderson]

Wow, that's so funny, because I remember you talking about that book that you wrote about the Dunbar High School, and I honestly knew nothing about Jesse Redmond Fawcett. Sure, I read about the Crisis, and we've talked about the Brownies book before on the show.

[Interviewer/Host]

But.

[Elle Malik Anderson]

But there's so much more about the people behind the magazine that I didn't know. So for me, who has built a career in media, this was such an interesting world to dive into, especially as a person who is living in New York because it is so deep into New York history. And Victoria Christopher Murray does such a great job weaving in both the historical details and drama. You think that the fictional secret affair with Wed dubois would be the centerpiece of the story, but really, it's just as much about Jesse's career and the politics surrounding black identity as it is about her love life. The novel actually came out back in February, but you had a really great conversation with Victoria Christopher Murray about what motivated her to write it and which parts of Jessie Redmond Fawcett's life she wanted to explore. So I thought we should take a listen.

[Alison Stewart]

What first sparked your interest in Jessie Redmond Fawcett?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Well, I wanted to write a historical fiction. This is my first solo, as you mentioned. So I. I was going to spend about two years with this character that I was going to develop, and I decided to write about somebody that would interest me. I'm a writer, and so let me look into the time period I was looking for the time period first Harlem Renaissance, the 1920s, New York. I'm from New York. I don't live here anymore. And I began looking up women in the Renaissance. And I couldn't find any except for the, the writers that, you know, Zora Neale Hurston and things like that. And then I listened to someone who had done a show called Harlem on My Mind, and they mentioned Jesse Redmond, Fau Fawcett. And then when Langston, you said that she was the midwife of the Harlem Renaissance, I decided to go down that rabbit hole.

[Interviewer/Host]

All right, where'd you go first?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I first went to articles on J Store, the scholarly articles and everything. Found out so much information about her. Most of the time it was related to W.E.B. du Bois. It was. There were no articles about just her at first. When I first, it was always, she was attached to this man. Didn't know anything about that part. And then as I kept digging, people kept saying, I think she may have had an affair. I think she may have had an affair. And then when I went to We Boys Biography, that's where the biographer David Lewis said, oh, not only did they have an affair, they were star crossed lovers and they had a parallel marriage.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hmm, that's so interesting. So you put dots, dots, dots, and the big thing revealed itself.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Exactly, exactly.

[Interviewer/Host]

The book opens with Jesse coming to Harlem. She's got her stepmother Bella from Philadelphia, who's coming to live with her in the book. Where is she in her career?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes. So she is a teacher at that point. She's a teacher because she's a black woman and that was the only kind of job she had. But she had a longing for writing and languages. That's what she majored in in Cornell at Cornell University. And think about this. In 1914, she traveled across the AT and studied at La Sabons, who studied French. So she always had a love for something beyond teaching. And when WEB offered her this position to be the literary editor, and she was the first one and the last one, there was never one before her, never one after her. So she's starting a brand new career.

[Alison Stewart]

Her stepmother is Jewish.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

How does this impact their relationship?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Well, you know what? I think her stepmother was more aware of race and racism than Jessie was at times. Her stepmother was what she called an integrationist. I had never heard that term, but it kind of evolved from abolitionist to integrationist. And her stepmother, who had been married before, had married a black man twice. She believed in the complete integration of the races. And she was going to do it herself. She was going to prove it. She wasn't. And so I think the way it impacted their relationship is that her stepmother made Jesse very aware of who she was, but Pushed her to the greatest limits. It was her stepmother who encouraged her. And she graduated valedictorian from the Pennsylvania School, Philadelphia High School for Girls, went to Cornell University, was always a high achiever because her stepmother, who was the only mother she ever knew, her mother passed away when she was a toddler. Really influenced her to overachieve.

[Interviewer/Host]

All right, I gotta. I gotta do this. And where did she teach school?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Oh, she taught in Washington, D.C. first at Dunbar. Oh, really?

[Interviewer/Host]

Dunbar?

[Alison Stewart]

Do people wanna read about it? I wrote a book about it. It's called First Class, in case you're interested.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I love that. I'm sorry. I love that. And that at Dunbar is where she met all of these people, like Gene Toomer, who would eventually become. His name was Eugene Pinchback at the time, and that's where she was teaching the person who would become the first president of Delta Sigma Theta. So she made an impact while she was there at Dunbar.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Victoria Christopher Murray. We're talking about Harlem Rhapsody. It comes out tomorrow. This was a different time in Harlem.

[Valerie June]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

How does time and place inform the characters and how they view the world?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

It's really interesting. I'm so glad you brought that up, because this is the early 20th century. So we're talking 50 years after emancipation. Just 50 years. And this is the first group of educated blacks to emerge in this country ever. And so they're living this middle class, upper middle class life as much as they can, because at the same time, they can't go into certain restaurants. At the same time they're told you're less than. At the same time, they're having trouble getting their children educated. And so it's. It's an interesting dichotomy that's happening there in their life. They have all of the. These achievements, but they're still second class citizens in this country. And then. So that's what the time was. The place was that Harlem was this little corner of America where black pride was growing while people were being lynched in certain parts of the country. And Jim Crow was a big thing. Pride, Black pride was rising in Harlem in terms of everything. People being proud of being black that had never been heard of. How can you be proud of being descendants of slaves? And it showed up in everything from fashion to music to theater and literature.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you approach writing about real people?

[Interviewer/Host]

Langston Hughes, Nella Larson. And also tackling the fictional part of this novel?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes, because historical fiction kind of. They don't seem to go together. Right. Every scene that I write in any of the historical books are anchored in history. And what I mean by that, I know she arrived in New York. I know when she arrived in New York. And that meant that she would have to show up one day at the Crisis office. And I know where that is. And then she. The people she'd have to meet, all of that is anchored in history. But I have no idea what they spoke about. I have no idea what they wore or what they ate. But I can extrapolate a lot of that information just based on. On what I know about them. That's why I study the characters first before I even write a word. I have read every biography, everything that I can to get their voices to know them, so that when I'm putting their words on the page, it's going to be pretty close to what I honestly believe are their words.

[Interviewer/Host]

A majority of the book revolves around Jesse's work at the Crisis, what to give people a sense of it. What did the Crisis, what was its stature?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

When it was at its height, yes.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

That was the most important periodical in the country. And I always say for black people, but it was a publication of the naacp. And what most people are not aware of is that most of the naa, the NAACP was founded mostly by white people who wanted to stop lynching. And so it was a periodical that gave News of Black America and it. News of Black America to black and white people. The most important periodical that was in the country. And if your name was in the Crisis, you were somebody.

[Alison Stewart]

What did W.E.B. du Bois? What were his goals for the Crisis?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

And then why.

[Alison Stewart]

And why did he pick her?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Okay, so his goal for the Crisis was the name of the Crisis came from a poem actually saying that at this point, point in time, black people were in crisis and we needed to do something. And so he felt that an informed populace would be the best populace. And he knew that he was going to give the information in a truthful, straightforward manner that was his to be the news and to. To tell the truth. That's what he wanted to do. He. The reason, though, that he brought Jesse to New York to be the literary editor, because as I said, they had never had a literary ed. The reason he brought her there had nothing to do with the Crisis. They were having an affair. They had at that point, had been involved for five years. And I think he said this would be a little bit of a way to keep her close. He knew of her interest in writing. She had been writing for the Crisis. He knew of her love of languages. And he's like, this is a good time. Maybe we could put some literature in here, you know, slap some things together. But she'll be close to me, and. And so what he meant to just kind of slap together, she turned into a literary movement.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's interesting, though.

[Alison Stewart]

Her stepmother from the jump is like. No, no, no, no. Mr. Dubois. Dr. Du Bois, and she calls him. Oh, it's okay. Will's okay. What does Bella sense?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yeah, well, he sensed, why is this older man after my younger daughter? And what do you want with her? And aren't you married? And how far away do you live from here? So it won't take you a long time to get home? I think it's a mother's just sense that she knew that something wasn't right because, as I said, they had had an affair for five years at this point. And there have been little rumors and everything. And Bella, her mother and Jesse hadn't talked about it. I don't. I can't imagine that they had. But it does come to a head in this book.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the book is Harlem Rhapsody. It's by Victoria Christopher Murray. You're going to read a little. A little bit for us. Yes, set this up for us.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Okay. So I'm going to read when she first meets County Cullen. And think about this. This is when he's 16 years old. I mean, it's so young. She meets all of them so young. So this is Jesse and her mother at church at the end of the service, because Countee's father was a very famous Reverend Cullen at that time. So I'll begin here. The receiving line is long as we wait to pay our respects to the Reverend and his wife. When it is finally our turn, Reverend Cullen reaches for my mother's hands. It's nice to meet you, Reverend, my mother says. I'm Mrs. Bella Fawcett, and this is my daughter, Ms. Jessie Fawcett. He tilts his head as he takes my hand into his. Your Miss Jessie Fawcett? Yes, My mother and I say together. Both surprise. Before I can ask the question, he answers. Dr. Du Bois told me you'd be joining a crisis. I'm very excited because my son is a great writer. He raises his hand and calls out, countee. And beckons to someone. A young man with a round face and very serious expression rushes to toward us. Son, I want you to meet the lady I was telling you about, the literary editor of the crisis, Ms. Jessie Fawcett. He is a slight young man with a soft voice. I Suspect he's only 15 perhaps 16. He raises his glance and holds out his hands. I'm Countee Cullen. It is my absolute pleasure to meet you. County looks at my mother, but only nods at her. It is my mother who exceeds, extends her hand to his. She knows this color boy will never touch her, not even in New York. His eyes widen when she grips his hand. I'm Mrs. Fawcett, Ms. Fawcett's mother. Oh. His already high pitched voice rises as his gaze shifts between my mother and me. Reverend Cullen says, my son is quite the poet. He's been published in the Martin School magazine and recently won second place in a major poetry contest. His mother speaks up and he is in the honor society at DeWitt Clinton High School. To County, I say, you have made your parents proud. He nods and again avoids. Averts his eyes. I say, I'm a poet as well. I know. I've read some of your poems. In the crisis. Counties speaks so softly I have to lean forward to hear him above the dinner.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's Victoria Christopher Murray reading from her book Harlem Rhapsody. Jesse Redmond Fawcett is described as nurturing the literary renaissance in Harlem. How so?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

You know, that's the favorite. My favorite part of the book is that each of these young, these men and women came to her very young. They hadn't been published. It was no place for black people to be published at the time. But they had a desire to write, even though they had no outlet for it. And so while she was able to nurture them creat editing them, and she was a tough editor because she was a writer herself, so she was a tough editor, she also helped them with their personal situations. Where Langston had issues with going to Columbia University and being discriminated against there. County was the only one who didn't really have any issues. He was just young and he wanted. He had this desire. Jean Toomer didn't want to be black. Didn't want to be black. Nella Larson didn't feel quite up to the Harlem elite. And so she was able to help them not only creatively but personally. She did what she could to help them navigate life as very, very young people.

[Interviewer/Host]

She was also really responsible for creating the Brownies book.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

So how did Jessi make herself useful in the position of creating this new magazine?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

So W.E.B. du Bois had the idea for a children's magazine. Think about this. A hundred years ago. Because black children had no positive images of themselves. None. And so he said, we have to give it to them if we want to nurture the talented 10th, if we want to grow them, they have to first see themselves as talented, and no one is telling them they are. So he had this big idea, but he didn't have anyone to execute it for him. And when she got there, she took over the entire magazine, designing it, putting together the columns, getting the writers. That's where Langston. That's where Nella first published. And so she just brought this entire. She brought his vision to life for him, and she fell in love with it as well.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, Jesse was educated, Cornell Upenn, a cosmic professional, but she was a black woman. She was a black woman at this time. How did she have to prove herself.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Among her peers over and over and over again? You know, what makes that so interesting and is that I think she would have expected to have to prove herself in white America, but she had to prove herself in black America because she was a woman. There were no women working in publishing at that time, not even at a black magazine. And even the women who were working at the Crisis knew how special it was that she was there at the top with this. So she had to navigate through all kinds of things. Printers, vendors, not wanting to have any.

[Alison Stewart]

That was a story in the book that she goes to a vendor, he's not gonna talk to her. He's gonna talk to the man who comes along with her. She shows up. He calls her. I think calls her doll.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yeah, he calls her doll all the time. Asks if she was there to clean the room, and she's dressed in a suit. And she had to navigate. But you know what's so interesting about that? You can never lose your cool. You can never. So that they could say, see, I knew she was a woman. And so she had to take all of the insults, even sometimes from Du Bois. Oh, don't worry your pretty little head about this. She had to take the insults so that she could move forward.

[Alison Stewart]

In interviews, you've talked about your similarities and Jesse's when it comes to writing.

[Interviewer/Host]

And learning to become an editor.

[Alison Stewart]

What inspired you to transition, to make the transition from corporate America to being a full time writer?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I wanted to be a writer my whole life. I came out of my mother's womb knowing I was gonna be a writer. I know people think that that's crazy. I knew I was gonna be a writer. I wrote my first masterpiece when I was seven years old. And people say you can't write a masterpiece. And when you're seven, you can if you plagiarize. And so I plagiarized a piece I called it Betty and the Witch and it was about a girl in a red uniform with a hood. She had three bears that were her brothers and three pigs were her sisters and seven little people. I bet I wanted to be a writer. It was never gonna be a transition for me. It was going to be when I could find my place in this industry.

[Alison Stewart]

What's changed the most for you since your first novel?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Oh, like people know my name now. So think about this. My first novel was 28 years ago. Wow. So I've had a long time. This is it looks like an overnight success, but it's not. It was a slow burn. I think people know my work now. So that's changed much. The industry really in itself hasn't changed.

[Alison Stewart]

That's good and bad.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yeah, that's good and bad. The industry I don't find now when you find pockets of people that will support you, you found a very good thing and who believe in you beyond niches and things like that, that's a very good thing. That's changed for me personally, I don't know if it's changed for the industry.

[Alison Stewart]

In our last three seconds, what advice would you give to writers who are thinking about becoming authors?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Two things. Writers write. You cannot call yourself a writer if you're not writing. And if you keep treating it like a hobby, it's going to stay a hobby. So even as you don't have time go in and write. And writers read. The best writers are readers.

[Alison Stewart]

Victoria Christopher Murray is the New York Times and USA Today best selling author of more than 30 novels, including the historical fiction Harlem Rhapsody, which is on shelves at your local bookstore. This week we've been talking to all of it producers about some of their favorite conversations. For example, Morgan Spector on the Gilded Age, couples therapy therapist Dr. Orna Goralnick, a two part documentary about Pee Wee Herman and another about the career of piano man Billy Joel. Today we've reached the end of Producers Pick week and we're talking to all of IT producer Elle Malik Anderson about some of their favorite segments such as a dramatic comedy starring John Leguizamo. And later we'll hear a live performance from singer songwriter Valerie June, who has built a reputation for weaving elements of folk, blues, gospel and soul into her music. Now she's returned with her latest album, Owls, Omens and Oracles. She joined us on the show back in April to perform live from the album, and after we wrapped the interview, she kindly recorded the Life I Used to Live, a cover of a Lightning Hopkins song. Take it Away, Valerie.

[Valerie June]

You know the life I used to live? I ain't gonna leave it no more. You know the life I used to live I ain't gonna leave it no.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

More.

[Valerie June]

I used to live so Rick Leash I was losing friends Everywhere I go I'm gonna change my we believe in I'm gonna join the church we gotta game. I'm going to change my ground on a church again. Then I can hang around talking sweet, sweet religion to all my friends. Sam.

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