Podcast Summary: All Of It – "A History of Rikers"

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guests: Graham Raymond (New York Daily News reporter), Reuven Blau (Senior Reporter, The City)
Air Date: December 27, 2023

Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" dives into the storied and troubled history of Rikers Island, New York City’s primary jail complex. Host Alison Stewart speaks with journalists Graham Raymond and Reuven Blau, co-authors of "Rikers: An Oral History," to explore the lived experiences of detainees, corrections officers, and reformers. They discuss the systemic issues, the conditions inside, challenges around reform, and why Rikers remains a focal point in the city's justice system.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Population at Rikers: Who’s Incarcerated, Who Guards

• Types of Offenses Leading to Rikers
  • Many are arrested for misdemeanors (up to a year in jail), but a large share are facing felonies potentially leading to longer sentences. (03:35)
    • Graham Raymond: “You can be arrested on a misdemeanor ... there's also a much larger percentage of people who are there on felonies which could result in state prison time of more than a year.” (03:35)
• Demographics of Inmates
  • Population is about 6,000 and rising—mostly Black and Latino men, with the target for shutdown-era reforms being far lower. (03:57)
    • Reuven Blau: “It's really fluid. It's about 6,000 right now ... as part of the shutdown plan, they wanted to kind of reach a target population about 3,300.” (03:57)
• Correction Officers
  • Near one-to-one ratio of staff to inmates; most officers are Black and Latino, and nearly half are women. (04:27)
    • Graham Raymond: “Almost half are women correction officers.” (04:44)

Why Write an Oral History?

• Raymond and Blau chose oral history for intimacy and authenticity, letting the people closest to the story speak for themselves.
  • Graham Raymond: “We thought that putting the voices of the people who actually worked there, who actually were incarcerated there, first and foremost was a lot more effective way of telling the story.” (04:58)

Isolation and Indifference

• Rikers’ remote location deepens its invisibility and allows abuse and neglect to continue.
  • Graham Raymond: “Out of sight, out of mind ... it made it easier to pretend that that population wasn't there.” (06:10)
• Many held pretrial, spending months or even years without conviction—often longer than their eventual sentence.
  • Graham Raymond: “The average length of stay pretrial is over 100 days ... some people are there one year, two years, three years, four years.” (06:10)

The Evolution of Gang Culture

• Historic shifts from borough-based gangs to highly organized crews like the Latin Kings and the Bloods.
  • Graham Raymond: “The Latin Kings became so big that the Bloods emerged as mainly a black gang ... it can follow you all the way upstate, too.” (07:12)
• Challenges in classification—attempts to segregate or mix gang members haven’t solved violence.
  • Reuven Blau: In 2022, there were over 500 stabbings/slashings, up from just 40 in 2007. (09:29)
    • “There's to 500 stabbings and slashings last year on Rikers and in the city Department of Correction. ... it was 40 in 2007.” (09:29)

Rikers as a De Facto Mental Health Facility

• Massive failures in mental health care have resulted in Rikers absorbing thousands who need treatment, not incarceration.
  • Reuven Blau: “It's a broader reflection of society and of New York especially, where over the years there's been ... a move to deinstitutionalize ... the number of beds has shrunk. ... the NYPD doesn't really know how to handle [mental illness] other than to arrest them.” (10:21)
• Solitary confinement is overused, especially for those unable to comply due to mental illness.

Lived Experience: LGBTQ+ and Vulnerable Populations

• Caller: Michael from Queens speaks of the insecurity and harassment he faced as a gay detainee:
  • “When you're gay and you're constantly harassed ... the correction officers were just as homophobic ... If you ask to be put into [protective custody], they put you in the same section ... as people that are being punished.” (11:42)
  • Michael describes protection measures as punitive—leading to further victimization.
  • “It was like going back to the 50s about people's idea about being gay.” (12:55)
• Reuven Blau highlights the “false narrative” that Rikers was ever a safe or effective institution, referencing past NYPD leaders’ claims.
  • “Every single one of these callers has highlighted ... that is just completely a false narrative.” (13:57)

Systemic Failures: Accountability and Leadership

• Management failures, rather than policy alone, underpin many problems.
  • Graham Raymond: Tells a story about fire safety: “There's a story ... about a group of lawyers went to investigate ... and there's a tree growing through the fire escape, blocking the egress ... So that's a management accountability issue.” (14:32)
• A cycle of reformist leaders, but little real change, especially without structural overhaul.
  • Reuven Blau: “There's been years and years of commissioners who come in ... they all want to make it better, but they've all failed ... supporters of the federal monitor coming in ... argue that's what's needed.” (15:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You could put Mother Teresa in there and in a month she'd be shanking people.” (Alison Stewart quoting a detainee from the book) (02:56)
• Graham Raymond: “We wanted the field to be as intimate as possible, as close to the ground as you could be.” (04:58)
• Caller Michael: “It was a surreal experience ... I can't even begin to tell you the mindset of the people, not just the inmates, the correction officers ... I mean, it was really, really hard. And I'm just blessed that I got through it.” (12:55)
• Graham Raymond (on reform): “That may be among the more serious issues that the Correction Department has to deal with.” (15:13)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction and Rikers Context – 01:36
• Why an Oral History – 04:51
• Isolation’s Impact – 06:00
• Gang Culture and Violence – 07:12
• Mental Health Crisis – 10:03
• LGBTQ+ Experience (Caller Michael) – 11:38
• Management and Accountability – 14:24
• Leadership and Systemic Reform – 15:31

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, raw, and unsparing but also concerned and hopeful that by surfacing these real stories, change might be possible. Stewart, Raymond, and Blau consistently prioritize the voices of people who have direct contact with Rikers, underscoring the complexity—not just policy, but lived experience and daily neglect.

Summary

This episode powerfully demystifies Rikers Island and the New York jail system, situating individuals’ stories within systemic patterns of neglect, violence, and failed reform. Through oral history and first-person accounts, listeners are given a sobering glimpse into the realities of incarceration and the urgent need for structural accountability in the city’s justice system.