Podcast Summary: All Of It – "A New Frida Kahlo Documentary, Based on Her Diaries"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Air Date: April 12, 2024
Guest: Carla Gutierrez, Director of the documentary "Frida"

Overview

This episode centers on the new documentary "Frida," which explores the life and artistry of Frida Kahlo by drawing directly from her diaries and letters. Unlike previous documentaries that rely on external commentary, this film aims to let Frida Kahlo "speak for herself," revealing her inner thoughts, humor, vulnerabilities, and personality. The conversation with filmmaker Carla Gutierrez highlights the documentary’s creative approach, the challenges in accessing Frida’s writings, the process of animating her iconic works, and reflections on Kahlo's potential reception of today’s social media culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

A New Approach to Frida Kahlo’s Story

• Directly from Frida’s Own Words:
  Gutierrez discussed why her documentary departs from conventional formats, allowing Kahlo to narrate her own life through her writings rather than relying heavily on scholars, experts, or acquaintances.

  "...when we started reading all of her writings, Frida herself told us, no, no, no, I want to take control of this storytelling. And of course, you know, we just kind of were guided by her.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 03:31)

• Firsthand Voices Only:
  The team aimed to feature only those who were an intimate part of Kahlo’s life, but found that her own voice was so strong it came to dominate the narrative. (03:31-04:55)

Collecting Frida’s Writings

• Extensive & Global Research:
  Gutierrez credits her team, led by producer Katya McGuire, for assembling Frida’s scattered writings from international collections. Access was only possible because Diego Rivera gifted their archives to the people of Mexico.

  “There hasn't been a single publication that carries all of her writing. So there was a lot of involved research to just get everything, every word that she had said that, you know, that we could get access to.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 05:01)

• Finding the Personal Side:
  The trove included both monumental reflections and personal minutiae—like high school notes to her mother asking for lunch money—that helped the filmmakers “really hear her voice.” (05:01-06:34)

New Facets of Kahlo’s Personality

• Fragility & Sharp Wit:
  Gutierrez, despite “obsession” with Kahlo, was surprised to discover new depths—her fragility, especially around her pregnancies, and her biting humor.

  "Her wit was something also that was surprising, the many ways that she expressed herself when she was criticizing a situation or she was criticizing people. She definitely had a sharp tongue, and it was really fun to hear that straight from her own voice."
  (Carla Gutierrez, 06:41)

Animating the Paintings

• Immersing Viewers in Her Inner World:
  The film incorporates cinematic animations of Kahlo's paintings (e.g., the title sequence of "What the Water Gave Me") to visually access her emotions and intentions.

  “We always wanted to find a way to…dive in and have the viewers dive into her pool of thoughts and pool of emotions. And I even had this image of us swimming through those emotions.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 08:47)

• A Bold, Controversial Choice:
  Some viewers questioned the appropriateness of animating such iconic works, but Gutierrez prioritized respect for Kahlo’s intention and emotional truth. Most audiences responded positively, feeling “immersed” in Kahlo's world. (08:47-11:04)

Storytelling Choices & What Was Left Out

• Serving Frida’s Uncontainable Voice:
  While some cherished items didn’t make the final cut, every decision centered on showcasing Kahlo as a woman “who cannot contain her voice and chooses not to contain her voice.”

  "The choices that we make was always at the service of that theme…showing...that spirit."
  (Carla Gutierrez, 11:19)

Filmmaking Perspective: Biopics and “Badasses”

• Essence Over Greatest Hits:
  From previous biopics on Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Julia Child, Gutierrez learned the value of seeking the subject’s core emotional journey—not just their accomplishments.

  “It’s really, how do you capture the essence of somebody? And with Frida, again, about a woman that chose not to contain her voice and that her artistic expression gave her catharsis.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 12:38)

Frida Kahlo & Social Media

• A 20th-Century "Selfie" Queen:
  Kahlo took raw, honest self-portraits; Gutierrez believes she would have embraced social media playfully, had fun with her memefication, and would have laughed about misunderstandings.

  “She would have had a lot of fun with it...she would have laughed really hard and would have told everybody how they got it wrong.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 15:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Frida’s Voice:

  “Frida herself told us, no, no, no, I want to take control of this storytelling.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 03:31)

• On Emotional Discovery:

  “To hear that fragility just gave me a much more of a more entire picture of her as a human being in all her complexities and all her messiness.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 06:41)

• On Animation Risks:

  “How do you choose to touch the paintings of such an iconic artist? ...But I think it’s a bold choice that I’m really happy about because we were able to really kind of highlight what she wanted us to say.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 08:47)

• On Frida & Social Media:

  “She was one of the first people that did a lot of selfies, but did a lot of, like, raw, very open, honest selfies...I actually think that she would have had a lot of fun with it.”
  (Carla Gutierrez, 15:38)

Important Timestamps

• 01:51 – Episode Introduced, context for Alison Stewart’s absence
• 03:31 – Gutierrez discusses the documentary’s distinctive approach
• 05:01 – Insights into the research behind accessing Frida’s writings
• 06:41 – Surprises about Kahlo's personality (fragility, wit)
• 08:47 – The decision to animate Kahlo’s paintings
• 11:19 – Challenges in what to include or leave out
• 12:38 – Lessons from biopics and focusing on emotional journeys
• 14:25 – Gutierrez’s personal connection to Kahlo’s art
• 15:38 – Speculation on Frida Kahlo and social media

Closing Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced, intimate glimpse into the making of "Frida," a documentary that prioritizes the artist's voice and vision. Gutierrez’s dedication to authenticity and innovation offers listeners a richer, more complex view of Frida Kahlo—not merely as an icon or symbol, but as a vivid human being whose emotional and artistic expression has transcended generations. The conversation is accessible, insightful, and peppered with the kind of warmth and curiosity that Kahlo herself might have appreciated.