Podcast Summary: "A New Indie Show About a Girl Living in the Wilderness"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Mark Duplass (Co-creator, co-writer, and producer of Penelope)
Date: September 18, 2024
Episode Theme:
An in-depth conversation with Mark Duplass about his new self-financed, family-friendly indie TV series Penelope—the coming-of-age story of a 16-year-old girl who escapes the digital world to live in the wilderness.

Episode Overview

In this episode, Alison Stewart sits down with Mark Duplass to discuss Penelope, a new Netflix series that chronicles the journey of a teenage girl who leaves behind modern technology and her unfulfilling life in search of self-discovery in nature. The conversation explores the inspiration behind the show, themes of mental health, risk-taking in the streaming era, and the power of creating art outside the traditional studio system.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Inspiration for Penelope

• Pandemic Project Roots:
  • The idea took root during the pandemic, inspired partly by the Canadian wilderness reality show Alone and Duplass’ own yearning to escape technology during lockdown ([03:13]).
  • Family Influence: His family gravitated toward nature-focused content, revealing a rare, all-ages point of connection.
    • "I was spending a lot more time on my device ... I could feel it affecting my mood." – Mark Duplass ([04:00])
• Organic Creative Process:
  • Duplass avoids art with a heavy conceptual agenda, preferring instinctual creation—a vision of a teenage girl surviving in the woods blossomed into fully fleshed episodes.

Industry Challenges & the Gamble of Self-Financing

• Industry Reluctance:
  • Executives passed on Penelope for being too quiet and family-friendly, seeking blockbuster hits instead ([05:49]).
    • "Maybe the animals talk, maybe that's what makes it interesting... but I'm a developer in charge of finding the next Game of Thrones." – Mark Duplass, paraphrasing executives ([05:49])
• Embracing Independent TV:

  • After rejection, Duplass decided to self-finance the show, leveraging his experience producing profitable indie films ([08:06]).

  • Financial Risk: The gamble was significant, both financially and personally—but rooted in his belief in the show's necessity.

    "There are entire episodes where no one speaks." – Mark Duplass ([09:53])

  • Duplass advocates for an indie TV ecosystem similar to '90s indie film, with festivals and markets for independently produced series ([09:58]-[11:15]).

Themes Explored in Penelope

• Family-Friendly Storytelling:

  • Targeted as an alternative to darker teen fare (e.g., Euphoria), aiming for a show families can genuinely watch together ([04:26]).

• Technology & Nature:

  • The series directly reflects a post-pandemic desire to disconnect and find meaning away from screens ([13:00]).

• Loneliness vs. Solitude:

  • Opening scene at a silent disco explores how it's possible to be alone yet together, mirroring the thematic exploration of isolation vs. connection ([13:23]).
    • "How can you have intimacy … that sense of being alone, but not get too lonely?" – Mark Duplass ([13:23])

• Symbolism and Stranger Danger:

  • The wolf Penelope sees represents both risk and allure—the call of the wild and the ambiguity of new encounters ([14:46]).
  • The show also explores the real vs. perceived dangers of interacting with strangers, recalling Duplass' own experiences as a touring musician ([15:34]).

• Mental Health & Identity:

  • Penelope’s journey is part allegory for adolescent search for meaning and confronting mental health ([17:37]).
    • "Something doesn't feel right." – A recurring theme in Duplass' work ([18:46])
  • The character’s actions echo universal, often unspoken, longings for escape and transformation.

Character and Creative Choices

• Casting and Naivete:
  • Megan Stott, the lead, brought a vulnerable naivete to Penelope, emphasizing the real peril and wonder of her journey ([20:59]).
    • "She doesn't look like she knows what she is doing ... there has to be some form of naivete for this to help sustain itself dramatically." – Mark Duplass ([20:59])
• Silent Episode:
  • Duplass discusses the "silent episode," a risky, almost dialogue-free segment, echoing the quietude of nature and the protagonist's inner world ([22:06]).
    • "It was like a 22 page episode, ... this is really rebellious and I don't know what people are gonna think, but I felt like really bad in the good way." – Mark Duplass ([22:10])

Audience Reactions & Cultural Context

• Mental Health Discussion:
  • Duplass wants the show to Prompt different conversations depending on the viewer—from mental health to industry curiosity ([24:00]).
    • He does not see it as "about mental health" per se, but expects discussions will emerge organically, especially considering recent culture and books like Jonathan Haidt’s The Anxious Generation ([23:29]).
• Diverse Reactions:
  • Some viewers worry about Penelope’s safety (like Duplass’ mother), while industry colleagues focus on the economics.
  • Duplass delights in such divergent takes ([25:16]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Financing:

  "I'm 47 now... I feel like now might be the time in my life, in my career, to start trying some slightly riskier things so I don't get the yips and just keep repeating myself."
  — Mark Duplass ([08:25])

• On Industry Trends:

  "There's just a fear-based mentality. That's it. And unless they do what was successful last week, then they're going to lose their jobs. And that is not conducive to interesting art for the culture."
  — Mark Duplass ([07:38])

• On 'Penelope' and Modern Connection:

  "I think our brains are confused, you know, that we're not out there… I try to go out backpacking a few times a year...something big happens to me every time I do it."
  — Mark Duplass ([13:23])

• On the Wolf as a Metaphor:

  "It certainly has something to do with the Call of the Wild...something that looks quite sweet and beautiful but could be really dangerous."
  — Mark Duplass ([14:46])

• On Joy in Creation:

  "I don't know what it's like for you...but for me, (joy) is usually at the moment of creation...when a song channels through me or when that silent episode [is written]..."
  — Mark Duplass ([22:10])

• On What He Hopes for Viewers:

  "If I can model that...for a family show for people to sit around and watch…take a pause..."
  — Mark Duplass ([08:25])

Important Timestamps

• 03:13 – Duplass explains the personal and family inspiration behind Penelope
• 05:49 – Describes initial industry reactions and the difficulty getting greenlit
• 08:06 – Decision to self-finance the series; reflecting on the risk
• 09:53 – Discussion of long stretches without dialogue in the series
• 11:15 – The need for an independent TV ecosystem
• 13:00 – Silent disco scene and representation of loneliness/connection
• 14:46 – The symbolic meaning of the wolf and confronting stranger danger
• 15:34 – Duplass personalizes the “stranger danger” theme from his musician days
• 17:37 – The universal fantasy and reality of “running away”
• 20:59 – Casting Megan Stott and incorporating naivete
• 22:06 – Crafting and rationale for the silent episode
• 23:29 – Mental health, technology, and the show’s broader relevance

Final Thoughts

The episode offered an honest, lively, and often funny look at what it means to create independent art in a risk-averse era, the emotional drive behind seeking escape, and the practical challenges—and joys—of realizing a singular vision outside the bounds of mainstream TV. Penelope stands as both a personal and cultural statement: rooted in the need for self-discovery and the collective yearning for meaningful, family-centric stories.

Watch Penelope on Netflix starting Tuesday, September 24th, 2024.