← All Of It with Alison Stewart
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- [00:09]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Humans of New York is an Instagram account with more than 12.8 million followers. Its creator, Brandon Stanton, has published six books, including his most recent, Dear New York. Nearly 500 pages long, the book is filled with photographs, quotes and essays about inhabitants across the five boroughs. The images and stories in the books have evolved because Brandon has evolved in the 15 years since it all began. He ponders it all in the book's intro. He writes this about riding the subway. On this train, there are people of every political persuasion. Democrats, Republicans, libertarians, socialists. There's a woman on Car 6 with fire engine red lipstick who describes herself as a contemporary anarchist, surrealist, situationist. There are members of every economic class, working class, middle class, upper class, the 1%, gender, sexualities, even age groups, the greatest generation, Gen X, Gen Y and Gen Z. Yes, even the time of your birth will automatically opt you into a tribe. Surely there must be some fire that all of us can sit around. The photos in the book are all about those people. Dear New York is out now and it coincides with a large scale public art installation at Grand Central Station. The installation includes more than 150 digital screens displaying thousands of ports, portraits from Stanton's 15 year career at Archive, and the 50 foot projections in the main course, which of course it'll be up through October 19th. Art News calls it a sweeping visual love letter to the people of New York. Joining us now is Brandon. Stan. It is nice to meet you.
- [01:52]
Brandon Stanton
Thank you, Alison.
- [01:53]
Alison Stewart
So what did you want the focus of Dear New York to be? Considering you'd written a couple different books, right?
- [01:58]
Brandon Stanton
Well, when Humans of New York first.
- [02:00]
Interviewer/Producer
Took off, it was one of the first really big things on social media. And it was 15 years ago and.
- [02:05]
Brandon Stanton
It was very much right place and right time. I just moved to the city, I'd only been photographing for about three months and I had this idea that I was going to stop random people on the street, take their photo, learn about their lives. And the social media kind of dawned right at that moment and it was just this tidal wave. It grew to tens of millions of followers in a very short time. And I always say that my entire learning curve was in public. The first Humans of New York book soldiers almost a million copies and I'd only been photographing for about three years at that point. Now I've been working at my craft for about 15 years now. I've been to 40 different countries around the world. I've interviewed 10,000 people I really know what I'm doing, and I wanted to go back and take everything that I've learned about storytelling, everything that I've learned about photography, everything that I've learned about people, and create the most beautiful portrait of New York City that I possibly could. And there's only one way I know how to do that. Through the stories of hundreds of random people that I've met all over this city. And so that's what Dear New York is. It's my love letter to the city through the stories and photos of the people who live here.
- [03:11]
Alison Stewart
What did you learn about storytelling?
- [03:13]
Brandon Stanton
Things.
- [03:13]
Alison Stewart
Maybe errors you made early on that you decided, okay, I'm going to adapt now.
- [03:18]
Brandon Stanton
Well, first of all, I mean, I will point out what you just did right there, and you didn't move on.
- [03:22]
Interviewer/Producer
To your next question.
- [03:23]
Brandon Stanton
You listened to what I was saying, and you asked a very direct, pointed question based on what I was saying. You know, that little things like that, you know, through the art of the interview, so much. And the only difference being is that I interview random people in the street. And so, so much of it is about making that person feel comfortable and present enough to not only where you can get an authentic portrait, photography is a part of it, but to where you can get something from this person that feels earned and lived. You know, every time I sit in front of a person, I just am trying as much as possible to disappear and to be a channel for this person's lived experience and the wisdom that they've collected through life. And that was a process, you know, just learning how to interview, learning how to photograph. But I would probably say that the most important thing was the interview process. It's how, in a very short amount of time on Fifth Avenue, with Rush Hour streaming by, to get to somewhere that was deep and revelatory with each person that I interviewed.
- [04:27]
Caller/Listener
Do most people have something that they want to tell you?
- [04:30]
Brandon Stanton
Well, there's something. Especially when Humans of New York got.
- [04:33]
Interviewer/Producer
Big, I think, you know, there was.
- [04:35]
Brandon Stanton
A lot of people who were like, oh, I'll be on Humans of New York and I will say this, or I'll be on Humans of New York and I'll tell that story.
- [04:41]
Interviewer/Producer
You know, almost never did that.
- [04:44]
Brandon Stanton
Are those the things that end up getting chosen? Because I think, you know, the process is really digging down one question at a time to things that people might not have thought about or examined themselves. And that's what a really good interview is. And I'm sure you've seen this over and over again, is when you're thinking through something with that person for the first time, and that's when the real interesting insights come out. So sometimes people do have things that.
- [05:12]
Interviewer/Producer
They want to say, but normally we move past that pretty quickly and get.
- [05:16]
Brandon Stanton
Down to things that they might not have pondered or might not have thought about.
- [05:20]
Caller/Listener
What is something that has surprised you?
- [05:22]
Brandon Stanton
Well, I mean, I moved to New York City wanting to be a photographer, and I had this idea to photograph random people. And I did not even think that a stranger would. I mean, this was before the social media age, really. And so it's, you know, very almost commonplace now. But back then, I was not sure if a stranger would even let me take their photograph. I mean, I would walk up to people, my voice would be trembling, I couldn't make eye contact. And now, years later, having interviewed like 10,000 people, it's like, not only have I found that the vast majority of strangers that I approach are willing to let me take their photograph, but, you know, if asked in a respectful way, without motive, people are willing to talk about things that they might not have talked about with anybody else, including their closest friends and family.
- [06:11]
Caller/Listener
Yeah, it's interesting when sometimes when you interview people like the man on the street, you find out people have something.
- [06:18]
Alison Stewart
They want to say.
- [06:19]
Caller/Listener
There's something deep down inside of them.
- [06:21]
Brandon Stanton
Well, they want to be seen. I mean, it's like, you know, we all. So much about this world right now, especially, is about broadcasting ourselves and what we're putting out there. And, you know, it's just like the act of having somebody very intensely listen to you is kind of a sacred thing. And we're all trying to figure ourselves out. And to have a partner in that, somebody who's just as interested in understanding you as you're understanding yourself, is a very honoring thing. And so, you know, I think it's when I think about what is it that that allows somebody to be so open with a stranger? I think there's just something that happens when somebody is that intensely listening to you that you feel seen in a way that you want to participate in the process. And so that's. I think, the core of it is just listening.
- [07:12]
Alison Stewart
Humans of New York creator Brandon Stanton is here with me to discuss his latest book titled Dear New York, which also coincides with a new public art installation at Grand Central Terminal. Listeners, if you'd like to in on this conversation, what Humans of New York story stands out for you? Were you ever featured in it? Tell us what you like about it. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We got a text already. It says, many thanks for bringing attention to Mary Oscones. Now with Escones, an Irish bread shop on East 7th Street. A truly earned success story. For people who don't know the story, would you mind sharing it?
- [07:53]
Interviewer/Producer
Well, Mary O has, she is a story of New York and has also become one of my best friends. So she is. She plays a dual role in my life.
- [08:01]
Brandon Stanton
During COVID she was running an Irish pub. She has six children. Her husband's a longshoreman who was trapped in Alaska. And her business was completely going under. And so as a panic, last ditch move, she started selling her mom's recipe of Irish soda bread scones. I told her story on humans of New York. She sold $1 million worth of scones that night. Amazing.
- [08:25]
Interviewer/Producer
And has since opened up her own scone shop in the East Village, which is Mary O's Irish soda bread Scone Shop. And it is. You cannot get in there. There's lines around the block every single day. And she is the most wonderful person in my life. So every success of Mary's is a success of mine.
- [08:47]
Caller/Listener
You've talked about how some people don't want to talk to you initially.
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Alison Stewart
Why is that?
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Brandon Stanton
Well, I mean, it's just, it's understandable. I'm. I'm a pretty private person as well. You know, I think people just have different boundaries. And also, this is New York and, you know, people are in a hurry. It's a lot of times it's a time thing where somebody, you know, will be rushing somewhere and they just won't have the time. But if you'll catch them on another day, they will stop and talk with you. But also, some people are very private. My wife would never in a million.
- [09:17]
Interviewer/Producer
Years say yes to me if I.
- [09:19]
Brandon Stanton
Had stopped her on the street to interview her.
- [09:21]
Caller/Listener
Do they have questions about you initially?
- [09:24]
Brandon Stanton
They. Well, I try to now. You know, I've kind of. I've slowed down a lot. When I first came to New York and I was 26, it was. Everything was happening so fast. I mean, I took this giant risk to move to the city. I spent six months and nothing was really happening. And then finally it caught on. And it caught on when I started going from photography to really learning the stories of people. And so, you know, I had this. I just had this baking in deep fear of it not working for so long. And then it started to work that I, you know, I was. I would describe myself As a young man in a hurry, I just wanted to keep collecting stories and keep sharing them as many times as possible. And so it was very much me interviewing the other person in this season of my life. It's very much more of a conversation. If somebody's going through something that I can relate to or that I have experience with, I'll try to share it with them. I've slowed down a lot. I think part of that's being 41 years old and evolving. Yes.
- [10:30]
Caller/Listener
Let's talk about some of the photos in the book. There's a picture of a man.
- [10:35]
Alison Stewart
He's next to his son, and his son kind of has kiss makeup on.
- [10:38]
Brandon Stanton
Yes.
- [10:39]
Alison Stewart
Sort of what it looks like. It's white face. He's got chains on. And the father is sharing how he needs to learn to understand people, boundaries. His dad's like a guy. He's a guy's guy, and he needs to help his understand how to let his kid grow and be his own person. When did you meet them and tell us a little more about the family?
- [11:03]
Interviewer/Producer
Yeah, so that was in the East Village. And, yeah, to further paint the scene, it's as you said, I think they were from Ohio. You know, it's just a dad that, you know, he's wearing a T shirt and blue jeans, just very dressed down. And then his son Pluto has full.
- [11:19]
Brandon Stanton
White makeup and is completely eyeliner on and all of these chains.
- [11:24]
Interviewer/Producer
And then the dad's kind of shrugging, and he said, yeah. And he says, you know, I've had. He said, I let him make some small decisions and then a little bit larger decisions over time. And that was so relatable to me as a parent, is we're always walking this line of what to protect our kids from and what to let them figure out itself or themselves. And so it's such a beautiful moment. And he goes.
- [11:49]
Brandon Stanton
He goes, I just don't want him. And it was kind of a sweet moment. I just don't want him to get hurt.
- [11:55]
Caller/Listener
You know, the fears and anxiety of.
- [11:57]
Alison Stewart
Being a parent, Right?
- [11:58]
Brandon Stanton
Yeah. And he doesn't. You know, he doesn't want his kid to make decisions that might make him be outcast or bullied. And then he said, I just don't want you to get hurt. And then he became very conscious of his son standing next to him, and he says, you know, by, like, falling on the street or being kidnapped by aliens or something.
- [12:18]
Interviewer/Producer
And then his son on the next page says, I am an alien, which I think is the punchline of that.
- [12:25]
Brandon Stanton
But that's what humans of New York is. It's not stopping people and asking them what they think about Donald Trump or what they think. What are you going through right now? What is this moment of your life right now? And not just doing that with celebrities, not just doing that with fashionable people in Washington Square or models in SoHo, but going out to the Bronx and talking with single mothers that are working to raise two kids while holding down two jobs, or an immigrant family who's just come to New York and is trying to stay alive or trying to keep their heads above water while avoiding being deported. It's giving that same sort of attention and focus that the media would give to people with status and money, to just the everyday person whose struggles are no less heroic and they're no much less more difficult. They're just less seen and less heard.
- [13:22]
Caller/Listener
Well, that's one of the greatest things about social media is there are no gatekeepers to tell you that's not a story anymore.
- [13:29]
Brandon Stanton
Right, right, right. No, 100%. And that's, you know, social media has been such a double edged sword for me because what you just said is so true. What? All of my success was enabled by the pulling down of those gates and the democratization of social media. And then it's kind of morphed into something where the main metric being measured by these social media platforms is not connecting the world, as they used to say, but how do we finagle our algorithms to make this, make whoever's on the other end stare at the screen as long as possible. It's the only thing that gets measured. And if you're a very disciplined person and if you're looking to be healthy and raise your children right, then you can get a lot of good content because it knows that you're going to be staring at the screen to learn about those things. What if you're a person who's struggling or a person who maybe looks at things that's not good for their mental health, they still will serve that to you over and over and over and over again. And so it's become something that I think, especially with young kids who are figuring themselves out, it's something that we need to be having a serious conversation about protecting ourselves as a society from its influence. And so, yeah, you know, the cognitive dissonance that my success being so directly attributed to something that I want to shield my own children from is something I think about often.
- [15:03]
Caller/Listener
You have to just keep typing in baby goats.
- [15:07]
Alison Stewart
It'll clear whatever in your timeline that.
- [15:10]
Interviewer/Producer
Is actually some very Deep wisdom. Yes. It's just like that is true.
- [15:16]
Caller/Listener
This text says, love Tanqueray. She's so compelling. Also, love the story about, I think it's Jingang Cafe and how that business expanded. Would you please explain who Tanqueray is?
- [15:27]
Brandon Stanton
So Tanqueray was possibly.
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Interviewer/Producer
I call her the Titanic. She was possibly the big. Well, I guess not because the Titanic sank, but just because it was so large. She is probably the biggest story that I ever did. It was a woman in a fur.
- [15:41]
Brandon Stanton
Coat and Chelsea, and I just stopped her randomly. I didn't even have my camera with me. I'm kind of spiritual about everybody I photograph. But this moment, especially because I didn't have my camera with me, and I was just walking by and I saw this woman, woman in this long mink coat. And I said, well, she. She was an older woman. She was about 73 at that time. And I knew that she had put a lot of effort into her appearance. So I just said, you know, you look wonderful today. And I just come from the door. And she just started launching into a story about how she was the first black burlesque dancer to break into the white world of burlesque dancing. And she just went on a monologue, and it was so captivating about meeting James Brown and the Temptations. And I could just see this entire world unfolding before my eyes. And I said, her name's Stephanie. She's become very close to me and she's in very poor health right now. So she's actually on my mind a lot. But I said, will you please stay here? And I ran home and I got my camera and then I came back and this woman's world was just almost like a Martin Scorsese movie. And I said, I gotta learn more about this. So I spent three months with this woman as opposed to one hour told her story, which I still don't think has ever been done by anybody else again in 54 chapters on Instagram, one post at a time, and 3 million people read it from first word to last. And she had a book about her and a movie.
- [17:10]
Interviewer/Producer
And so she was. I think for a lot of people out there, Humans of New York is Tanqueray. Because there were so many people who connected to that story.
- [17:20]
Alison Stewart
Specifically, we're talking to Humans of New York creator Brandon Standen. His new book is called Dear New York. It coincides with a new public art installation at Grand Central Terminal. Tell us about Grand Central. How did it come about?
- [17:36]
Brandon Stanton
So, you know in the book and that quote that you just read when you were reading about the opening in the prologue of the book, you know, I think the thing that's most beautiful about New York City is that the entire world is here. It's like I've traveled to 40 different countries around the world, and, like, the one thing about New York is that the entire world is essentially pressed together in this small place. We're all on the same crowded sidewalks, we're in the same packed subway cars, but somehow we make it work. And I think there's something beautiful about that. We scream at each other, we shove each other. I pissed somebody off in the subway on the way here. I was like, trying to tell you.
- [18:11]
Interviewer/Producer
Guys I was running a little bit.
- [18:12]
Brandon Stanton
Behind and somebody's behind me. And, you know, those moments happen, but it's just like one on one, if you just. And I'd been doing it, you know, What a crazy, beautiful thing for this big, bad, scary city. You know, I've been carrying around a $3,000 camera in every single neighborhood in New York City, stopping 10,000 random strangers for 15 years. I've never had anything bad happen to me. That's because the people of this city are decent and they're good in crowds. We get a little stressed out and we snap at each other. But one on one, it's beautiful. And I think that's a testament. I think that's a hope for humanity, that all of these people pressed together in a small place can make it work here. Then we can figure it out, even though it seems like the world's teetering on us.
- [19:01]
Alison Stewart
That's why Grand Central is such a perfect place.
- [19:03]
Brandon Stanton
And Grand Central, if New York City is where the world comes together, Grand Central is where all of New York comes together. And so I wanted to take what I had made from dear New York and expand it even more. And so dear New York has become part of a much larger piece of art. And for the next two weeks, Grand Central Station, it will have the largest transformation. It's 112 year history. The entire complex has been completely turned over to a celebration of the diversity and humanity of New York City. It is accompanied by an absolute historic amount of permissions and approvals from the mta. There's a Steinway piano with Juilliard performers in the main concourse. For the first time ever, the entire concourse is transformed into an immersive experience which will surround you with the stories of people in New York City. And my favorite.
- [19:57]
Interviewer/Producer
Well, one more. The subway is absolutely transformed.
- [20:00]
Brandon Stanton
All three levels of the subway station, and this was designed by Pentagram. But my favorite is what's going on in Vanderbilt Hall. There's an exhibition that combines the work of professional photographers with 600 school children from around New York City that submitted their work through an open call.
- [20:20]
Alison Stewart
Dear New York is out now. The large scale public art installation is at Grand Central Station on display through Sunday, October 19th. I been speaking with Humans of New.
- [20:31]
Caller/Listener
York creator Brandon Stanton.
- [20:34]
Alison Stewart
Thank you for joining us.
- [20:35]
Interviewer/Producer
Thank you so much Alison.
- [20:36]
Alison Stewart
There's more.
- [20:36]
Caller/Listener
All of it after the news.
- [20:42]
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- [21:14]
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