← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
A Stage Four Cancer Patient Discovers Her Sexuality in 'Dying for Sex'
00:24:27
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- [00:00]
Jenny Slate
The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options.
- [00:05]
Kim Rosenstock
Which is why with USAA auto insurance.
- [00:08]
Jenny Slate
You'Ll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today, restrictions apply.
- [00:14]
Kim Rosenstock
USAA.
- [00:19]
Jenny Slate
Listener support. WNYC Stud.
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Alison Stewart
You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. A new show follows the true story of a woman's sexual awakening and her pursuit of pleasure. It's titled Dying for Sex, based on a podcast of the same name. Molly receives the news that her breast cancer has returned at stage four and spread to her bones. She's already undergone chemotherapy, a bilateral mastectomy, radiation therapy, and a breast reconstruction. The first time around, knowing her diagnosis, her diagnosis was terminal. She makes a big decision to leave a passionless marriage with her husband of 15 years and to explore her sexuality, she decides to live out her final days with her best friend, Nikki, played by our next guest, Jenny Slate. A Variety review says Dying for Sex is a show of big, messy, reflexively uncomfortable feelings. The kind that requires a mastery of tone and a uniformly game cast. All episodes of Dying for Sex are streaming now on Hulu. Joining us to discuss it is one of the actors on the show, Jenny Splate, Jenny Slate, who plays Molly's friend Nikki. Hi, Jenny.
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Jenny Slate
Hi. How's it going?
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Alison Stewart
It's going okay. And also joining us is co showrunner Kim Rosenstock. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show.
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Kim Rosenstock
Hi. Thanks for having us.
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Alison Stewart
So, Kim, the series is based on this podcast, Dying for Sex, which you listened to in the summer of 2020. I listened to it for the first time yesterday. Hoo, boy. What drew you to the podcast?
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Kim Rosenstock
Yes, the podcast was shared with me by my co creator, Liz Meriwether, who had optioned it for television. And she, you know, called me up and was like, will you listen to this podcast? Would you like to make this show with me to adapt it for television? And, you know, I listened to it kind of probably like you just all in one sitting. And it just completely bowled me over. I think it just, it seemed to be about one very small, specific story of this one woman's journey. But then by the end, I just feel like it was about literally everything and it was about all of life and, like, relationships and the body and love and just intimacy and bravery. And I just, I just was like, oh, this is exactly the kind of thing I want to be writing about and putting out into the world. And how can we amplify this story and get it out to more people. So it was just a. It was a thrilling thing to listen to, a very emotional journey, but also, I was laughing the whole time also. So anything that can combine, I think, you know, comedy and real. A real human emotional journey is always, you know, to me, like, the best. The best possible entertainment.
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Alison Stewart
Let's listen to a little bit of the podcast so people can hear those voices, and we'll. And we'll talk about it on the other side. This is from the podcast Dying for Sexual.
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Kim Rosenstock
I'm Molly. I'm 44, and I have stage four breast cancer. Technically, I'm dying, but aren't we all? I'm Nikki, my best friend in the world. Yeah, we've known each other for, like, 20 years, and, you know, everything I've been going through in that time, getting diagnosed as terminal, leaving my husband, starting to have sexual escapades to feel alive. Let me tell you these sex stories. They are so damn interesting that we had to make a podcast about it and about our friendship.
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Alison Stewart
It is about friendship. Jenny, you play Nikki. What conversations did you have with the real Nikki Boyer about her relationship with Molly?
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Jenny Slate
First of all, even just hearing Nikki's voice there really gave me the good kind of chills. She's just a really, really special person, and we wouldn't be able to have had the wonderful experience we had on set or be here talking to you now or be so proud of our work generally if Nikki hadn't been will to be in conversation with her friend in this way and just. And be out there in the way that she is. And she's really, really open. So I was lucky that she was willing to talk to me not just about what happened between her and Molly during Molly's illness or in their friendship in general, but I wanted to know what her grief was like at, you know, five years after Molly's passing, which was when we started filming. And I wanted to ask her a lot about the ways that she feels anger and expresses it and how that changed or was, like, refined or maybe more explosive, whatever, depending on what she went through with Molly and what she went through as a person. And she just answered everything as honestly as she could. And sometimes it was a question that she had not thought about before. And it wasn't that I was trying to pattern myself my version of the character of Nikki after the real Nikki Boyer, but there was a lot that I haven't gone through, and she really did so much to just kind of, like, transmit or transfer these tones to me and Also, she just became a good friend.
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Alison Stewart
What did you admire or what did you observe about Nikki's relationship with Molly?
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Jenny Slate
Um, you know, some. One thing I loved was that she loved Molly so much that her whole heart was for sure, entwined, imprinted on Molly's, and that it was certain. I think you see it in the show, and I think I. You can see it in the real Molly and Nikki's relationship, that because they knew each other, were bonded, and had that real intimacy that they sort of were in an infinity loop of proving each other that their worth was real and true and that they were. That they were vibrant and that they were who they suspected they always were in a good way. And that can, of course, make you really, like, grabby, desperate, oh, no, don't let this person go. And of course, they. They both felt that. But what I loved and admired was not just that, but that Nikki's gaze as Molly began to change and be diminished while also becoming more emotionally kind of like expansive and, you know, blooming more emotionally, was that Nikki's gaze, attention, and listening capability never wavered. She never looked away. Even though it was so hard for her, because Molly was so precious to her, Nikki just never looked away. She was an incredible listener, and in order to be that, she herself had to change a lot. And so she jumped in on her own unexpected journey. And I just really admire that, because thing you see in our show is, like, you can try to plan for when you're gonna make your big changes. You know, like, you can say, this summer, you know, this is when I'm really gonna, like, go vegetarian and, like, commit to my therapy and just. And be. And be. Take personally, but sometimes you don't have a choice when the timeline offers itself to you and when the opportunity comes and. And they both just really went for it.
- [07:49]
Alison Stewart
Kim, I wanted to ask you about this particular podcast. What was unique about turning this podcast, Dying for Sex, into a series? Because these women are really honest with each other on the podcast.
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Kim Rosenstock
Yeah, I mean, something that, you know, Liz and I talked a lot about was the podcast has its own magic, you know, and as we just heard, and it was so moving, actually, to hear Molly's voice just now when you played that, like, the intimacy of hearing this friendship, you know, and you just dropped in right in the middle of it. They're, like, mid conversation when the podcast starts, which I love. And it's just like, you are a fly on the wall listening to these real people talk. And the bravery of Molly on the podcast is. Is this willingness to allow herself to be documented and witnessed in this state. And you hear her voice, it's so powerful and moving. Obviously, we cannot do that. You know, we're translating it to television and we don't. It's not the real people and it's visual. It's not. Their voices are not in your ear. So it was like, okay, how do we. How do we give audiences the same feeling that we had listening to this podcast, but, you know, by doing something new and different, we can't do what they did, you know, because it just wouldn't work. And also, so much of the podcast is about them debriefing about things that have happened. And as we, like, nobody wants to watch a TV show about people talking about things that happened. You know, we had to make it all very present and watch it unfold. And I think a huge part for us was, you know, honestly, on the podcast, Nikki is the receiver of the stories. She is the listener, like Jenny was. She's the reactor, she's the cheerleader. But we were like, well, in our show, we have an opportunity to build out Nikki's journey as the caretaker and to really explore the caretaker's arc in this story and to really get into what what that means and what. What that looks like, you know, because she's going on, she has her own full story happening alongside of her, her friends. So, you know, that was. I think that those were some of the big things we talked about and also just, you know, wanting to make sure that we, you know, got. Got the same mix of tones that the podcast has. And, but. And one thing that we talked about with the real Molly in real life, you know, towards the end, you know, she decided, I think, you know, she was like, I really wish I could just, you know, fall in love and like, have one big, you know, like, amazing love. And she sadly died before that happened. But on our show, we were like, we maybe have the opportunity to make that happen for our character. So we sort of took liberties with the real story and we gave Molly this emotional experience that she had longed for in real life. We were able to. And we talked a lot about that with Nikki, the real Nikki as well. And, you know, she was like, this was. This was. This is giving her what she wanted. And we felt, you know, that was, that was also, you know, we love rom coms. So we were like, also story wise, it was very satisfying for us to build that for her. But ultimately, the story is this friendship, this. It's the love story between these two Friends. And so, you know, we were. That was always the north star for us. And it was all taken from the real story.
- [11:35]
Alison Stewart
We're talking about the series Dying for Sex. My guests are Jenny Slate and Kim Rosenstock. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In a new dramatic comedy series, Jenny Slate plays a woman supporting her best friend who's dying of cancer as she's a sexual awakening in her final days. The show is titled Dying for Sex. It's streaming now on Hulu. Jenny Slate joins us alongside co showrunner Kim Rosenstock. Okay. It's in the name Dying for sex. Jenny. Nikki is so supportive of Molly's need to have a, quote, orgasm with another person before she dies. How's Nikki gonna help her with this?
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Jenny Slate
Yeah, Nikki is not going to, you know, physically facilitate that, but, you know, she would.
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Alison Stewart
She would. She's a good friend.
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Jenny Slate
She would if Molly. If Molly asked. But yeah, but that. That actually is not her assignment. She. Nikki has a lot of different tasks. One of them is to take on the burden of, like, the actual, you know, bureaucracy of, like, the, you know, medical system. Keep track of Molly's appointments, make sure that Molly is listened to in her appointments, help Molly make decisions. But then, of course, there is the, like, you know, being Molly's cheerleader, being the person that investigates what is going on with Molly and asks her questions and is open and is ready at any moment to get in the car to pick her up or bring her somewhere or run back to Molly's apartment to, you know, get her a vibrator that she needs. Nikki is really kind of like full service valet in a way. Like, she's like, she's like, dressing, you know, she's kind of like dressing Molly for. For this life experience. She is confidant. She is, you know, a little bit of like a therapist, sometimes too much. And also because Nikki herself is, you know, is a really kind of scribbly creature. Like, she's not maybe the number one person that people would pick to. To head up this charge. She's not organized. She is really, really emotional, which is great. But, you know, at the beginning of the series especially, she really has never even thought of how to. How to filter, how to use the valves of her emotions in a more, like, nuanced way. But she is down for anything, and she kind of does have to do anything, whether that's, you know, like, sitting in the hall while Molly has her sexual encounters and just giving her privacy, but also, like, not sleeping for 30 hours in the hospital because Molly doesn't want to be alone. She. She has to understand that it is right to say yes to everything that Molly wants, because it's about helping Molly trust her own preferences and discover them.
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Alison Stewart
There's this scene where she empties her bag on the floor.
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Kim Rosenstock
Yes. And just.
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Alison Stewart
I think every woman has had that experience. You're trying to find something. It's so important.
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Kim Rosenstock
Yeah.
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Alison Stewart
Tell us a little more about that scene, Kim.
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Kim Rosenstock
Oh, my God. I'm so glad you mentioned that. I have never seen that on screen. That's every day of my life. And I was like, I feel a real kinship with. With Nikki and the character and with Jenny, honestly, like. Like, I feel like. I feel like Jenny's beautiful portrayal of this character. And, like, I just feel like as somebody who, you know, has. Has ADHD and is, you know, kind of a mess sometimes. Like, this assumption that I. That we can't show up for people or that, like, we aren't the people that you're gonna, like, call on to, like, be. Be your rock, you know, like, and that. And I feel like I really wanted to show someone on screen have that messiness, have that scatteredness, but also be the person who is fully able to rise to the occasion at the same time. Able to rise to the occasion and be someone's complete support system. While not. It's not that she changes. She doesn't stop carrying that bag or stop. It's just that she is in the same way that Molly wants to see the version of herself that she sees reflected in Nikki. Nikki becomes the version of herself that is, like, reflected in Molly. Who knows that she is capable of showing up and taking care and having so much love in her own way. But, yeah, she's going to have a giant, messy bag of garbage that she carries around at the same time. And to me, also, we're making a comedy, so it was like, how do we make things funny? So that, to me, is also, like, a very real comedic scene. And Jenny is so brilliant in it. But I was like, I would like to see this on screen. I feel like I have not seen this represented. And Jenny did such an amazing job with it.
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Alison Stewart
Jenny, what was in that bag that tells us who Nikki is?
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Jenny Slate
Oh, my gosh, that bag. I mean, there's lots of changes of clothes that, you know, like, they're. They're. Some of them I, you know, I imagine, are our movement clothes. She's an Actor, you know, lots of like different bras and like every supply for menstruation. But there's also like two unwrapped crumb cakes in there. There is, there is like a stack of post its that one might imagine. I always imagine she just like swiped it because it was free, you know, like she was just like waiting somewhere and kind of just sort of like sucked it into her, into her purse and. And then there's also like a trophy, which I am not. I, I like did a little bit of like this is what this is for, for, you know, for everything in that bag. But I imagine, you know, Nikki was at, at like a drunken, you know, game night or something and like, you know, didn't win and just like drunkenly was like, actually, I will take this or whatever. And she's just had this stupid trophy in her bag for forever.
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Kim Rosenstock
I was writing the stage directions for that. I literally was looking through my bag and I had a trophy in there and I was like, I'm just going to write down what's in my. And it was like a Halloween decoration award trophy. It was totally ridiculous. Like, but sorry, it's so funny like that that you had a whole other trophy. I love it, Jenny.
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Jenny Slate
You got to know what that stuff is in your mind, I guess. Ye.
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Alison Stewart
Michelle Williams, the actor Michelle Williams plays Molly. Did you know Michelle before Jenny?
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Jenny Slate
I didn't. I mean, I had met her a couple times. Yeah, no, I met her in passing. Like we were, we had been in a movie together. We had no scenes together. So like, you know, met her briefly at a stressful junket, like, you know, whatever, I don't know, seven, eight years ago and had met her at a, at a party really briefly. But I am a very big Michelle Williams fan, so that party was me just like basically blurting out, you're so incredible and then like walking away and being embarrassed and I was, I was very, very nervous to meet her. But I also really wanted to do this. Like sometimes opportunities come and, and it's just like, oh, that just seems so huge. I'm almost afraid, you know, like, I definitely felt that way about giving birth and I remember feeling that way about like auditioning for snl. Like, I just, it sort of made me feel sick to think about it and scared this. I had a private belief that it would be a great pleasure, not just an honor, but a great pleasure to act alongside Michelle and to be able to perform these, you know, beautiful scripts that Kim and Liz wrote. And I tried to focus more on that going into the, into the work. And Michelle as a scene partner made it very easy for me to focus on the positive and why I wanted to be there and why I should be there. Because she herself is open and sensitive and questioning and really wants it to be good, really wants it to be good in the specific way that only that actor can make it good. And that is a very, it's like both professional and incredibly warm and generous combination to encounter. And she really offers that. And I, I hope I offered that, you know, to her also.
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Alison Stewart
All episodes of Dying for Sex are streaming now on Hulu. It's great. By the way, I've been speaking with actor Jenny Slate and co showrunner Kim Rosenstock. Thanks for your time today.
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Jenny Slate
Thank you.
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Alison Stewart
We did want to note that Clem Burke, the drummer of the legendary New York rock band Blondie, died on Sunday. He was 70 years old. The cause was cancer, according to a statement from the band. In the same statement they wrote, Clem was not just a drummer, he was the heartbeat of Blondie. His talent, energy and passion for music were unmatched and his contributions to our sound and success were immeasurable. Both his musicianship, Clem was a source of inspiration both on and off the stage. His vibrant spirit, infectious enthusiasm and rock solid work ethic touched everyone who had the privilege of knowing him. Originally from New Jersey, Burke moved to New York in the 1970s. Eventually, he answered an ad placed in the Village Voice to join a new band. An ad placed by musicians Debbie Harry and Chris Stein. Burke became the rhythmic backbone of Blondie, playing on all their albums and hit songs like Heart of Glass and Call Me Burks joined us in 2022 to talk about a new Blondie box set. Here's a clip of Burke reflecting on being a New Yorker in an iconic New York rock band.
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Clem Burke
I get a lot of musicians that kind of appreciate what I've done and what the band has done. People are just usually just really, you know, flattering and just thanking you, thanking you for the music types of things or just want to say hi, especially, you know, here in the city where we all basically grew up. You know, I moved here from New Jersey when I was 18. You know, I think we're kind of part of the fabric of New York City pop culture in a lot of ways. It's just kind of really interesting how it's kind of whole thing, Blondie has kind of taken on a life of its own. And we had never, against the odds, so to speak, we had never thought things would have been like they are nowadays, and we're really, really happy about it all.
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Alison Stewart
And that was Blondie drummer Clem Burke on All of It. He passed away on Sunday at the age of 70. Here's blondie with dream.
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Kim Rosenstock
When I met you in a restaurant you could tell I was no debutanton.
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Jenny Slate
You asked me what's my pleasure, A movie or measure? I'll have a cup of tea and tell you of my dreaming.
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Kim Rosenstock
Dreaming is free, dreaming, dreaming is free. I don't want to live on charity. Real to real is living rarity People stop and standing we just walk on by we just keep on dreaming.
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Alison Stewart
Tomorrow on the show, artist Amy Sherrid is best known for her striking portrait of former first lady Michelle Obama. But most most of her work focuses on representing the lives of people. On the next all of it, she joins us to discuss her new exhibit at the Whitney Museum titled American Sublime. That's on the next all of It. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you and I'll meet you back here next time.
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Jenny Slate
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