A Tradwife Travels Back in Time in 'Yesteryear'

Summary

Podcast Summary: “A Tradwife Travels Back in Time in 'Yesteryear'”

All Of It with Alison Stewart — WNYC
Date: April 6, 2026
Guest: Carol Clare Burke (author of Yesteryear)
Host: Alison Stewart

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Carol Clare Burke’s debut novel, Yesteryear, and its sharp, witty examination of the “tradwife” phenomenon—a growing online culture where women embrace traditional gender roles, sometimes to extremes, both on and offline. Host Alison Stewart and Burke delve into the novel's inspirations, its commentary on gender, authenticity, hypocrisy, ambition, and class, and the humorous, often satirical lens through which the protagonist, Natalie Heller Mills, moves through her world (and possibly through time).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Tradwife” Phenomenon and Its Contradictions

[01:09]–[03:24]

• Origins of Burke’s Interest: Burke became engrossed in the “tradwife” community after joining TikTok in 2024. The performative nature and contradictions fascinated her:
  • “I very quickly was sucked into that world and I found myself questioning why I was so interested in these visuals.” — Carol Clare Burke [02:35]
• Tradwife vs. Tradwife Influencer:
  • “A trad wife is someone who just kind of adheres to these, you know, traditional norms... A tradwife influencer is someone who performs that online, often for monetization.” [02:50]
  • The irony that some tradwife influencers become the family breadwinners while acting out subservience.
• The Spark for the Novel: No single post inspired Burke, but the sheer volume and hypocrisy in tradwife content became irresistible as a fictional subject.

2. The Novel’s Structure and Natalie’s Character

[04:01]–[08:15]

• Natalie’s Voice and Persona:
  • Burke shares that Natalie’s voice—“very specific... as soon as I found her, I really felt like I understood what the book was gonna be.” [04:08]
  • Opening reading establishes Natalie’s discipline, perfectionism, and performative self-image.
  • Notable quote (Carol reading Natalie):
    “The mother every woman wanted to be and the wife every man wanted to come home to. Like a nun in a porno. It didn't make sense, but also, by God, it worked.” [06:45]
• Layers of Natalie:
  • Outwardly: “doesn't allow any vulnerability to come through,” presenting a perfect image to the world. [07:17]
  • Inside: “acidic and ambitious and cold and very funny.” [07:39]
  • On humor: “Her humor was actually very essential to figuring out the rest of her personality.” [07:49]
  • Writing an “unlikable” character: The challenge was showing her humanity during edits while letting her be herself in draft.

3. Satire and Social Commentary

[08:29]–[13:49]

• “Be Careful What You Wish For”: Burke thrusts Natalie into the 1850s to fully confront the realities behind the nostalgia for traditional womanhood.
  • “I wanted to put her in the time period that she seemed to think was so much easier than the one that we're living in.” [08:52]
• Ambition, Womanhood, and Gender:
  • Natalie, a former Christian fundamentalist and Harvard student, is driven and ambitious—“she kind of saw herself as a bit of a prophet until her experience at college told her otherwise.” [09:31]
  • She perceives her ambition as a masculine flaw and her husband’s lack of ambition as his failing—highlighting traditional gender expectations taken to their extremes.
  • Quote: “If she was born a man, she could have ruled the world... her ambition, her desire to remake the world in her image... she sees those as masculine traits and therefore as failings in herself.” [12:09]
• Class and Upward Mobility:
  • Natalie is the daughter of a single mom from a working-class background, distancing herself from instability and her family’s struggles.
  • “Any level of instability is something that she is just not fundamentally comfortable with... independence is counter to every decision she has made within her own life.” [12:51]
• Online Critics, “Angry Women”:
  • The “angry women” in Natalie’s mind are commenters who challenge her online persona, yet, ironically, help monetize her brand.
  • “They're the ones who ironically, give her the most engagement and probably help her monetize her account the most.” [13:26]
• Political Themes:
  • Burke speaks on women’s impossible choices and politics offering “maybe no answers at all.” [13:55]

4. The Novel’s Plot, Narrative Structure, and Themes

[14:19]–[16:49]

• Natalie’s Reality Shift:
  • Natalie is thrown into what seems like the 1850s, forced to face the harshness of real traditional life.
  • She fluctuates between explanations—nightmare, divine test, reality TV—mirroring the reader’s uncertainty.
  • On bravery:
    “She often is afraid and she often makes decisions in spite of her own fear... She finds something within herself to move forward even when she feels almost paralyzed by fear.” [15:31]
• Narrative Pacing:
  • Burke intentionally delays explanations, letting readers move through confusion and discovery with Natalie:
    “Most of the book was actually constructed with me just stumbling my way through in the dark to get to that ending.” [16:00]
    “Writing a really pace forward book, it's very much about emotion and very much about releasing information at the right time.” [16:25]

5. Adaptation News & Personal Reflections

[16:57]–[17:45]

• Film Adaptation:
  • Yesteryear has been optioned for film by Amazon and Anne Hathaway’s production company, with Hathaway to star as Natalie:
    “I think that she will do a stellar job.” [17:05]
• Author’s Personal Update:
  • Burke is expecting her first child and reflects on how finishing her book and pregnancy intersect:
    “For a long time didn't want to have a child until I could write a book and get my career off the ground. And so it does feel very much like kismet that it's happening all at once.” [17:28]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tradwife Influencers:
  • “The irony is that very often they're making a lot of money. These women are the breadwinners, but they are performing an idea of subservience.” — Carol Clare Burke [02:50]
• Natalie’s Opening Lines (Read by Burke):
  • “The mother every woman wanted to be and the wife every man wanted to come home to. Like a nun in a porno. It didn't make sense, but also, by God, it worked.” [06:45]
• On Ambition and Gender:
  • “If she was born a man, she could have ruled the world... she sees her desires as masculine traits and therefore as failings in herself.” — Carol Clare Burke [12:09]
• On Pacing & Writing a Thriller:
  • “Every day I felt like I was just trying to take five steps forward in the pitch black.” — Carol Clare Burke [16:49]
• On Bravery:
  • “She often makes decisions in spite of her own fear... that's probably the definition of bravery.” — Carol Clare Burke [15:31]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [01:09] — Introduction to the tradwife phenomenon and Yesteryear’s premise
• [02:35] — Burke’s introduction to tradwife content on TikTok
• [02:50] — Defining “tradwife” vs. “tradwife influencer”
• [04:24] — Burke reads the opening lines of Yesteryear
• [07:17] — Discussion of Natalie’s exterior and interior personas
• [08:52] — Why Burke places Natalie in the 1850s
• [09:31] — Natalie’s early ambition and Harvard enrollment
• [10:21] — Natalie’s relationship and marriage to Caleb
• [12:09] — Reflection on gender, ambition, and what’s possible for Natalie
• [13:26] — The “angry women” online and the economics of engagement
• [14:44] — Sudden shift to the 1850s and Natalie’s crisis
• [16:00] — Narrative pacing choices and building suspense
• [17:05] — Announcement of film adaptation with Anne Hathaway
• [17:28] — Burke discusses pregnancy, career, and timing

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Conclusion

This episode deftly explores the intersections of internet culture, gender roles, and class through the lens of Yesteryear and its sharply drawn, often satirical protagonist. Burke and Stewart offer a nuanced, witty look at the paradoxes of performative womanhood, the challenges of ambition in a world with rigid expectations, and the creative processes behind crafting a provocative literary debut.

“Yesteryear” is a sharp, acerbic, and funny novel that critiques the idea of traditional womanhood—by forcing its tradwife heroine to live out her fantasy in the most unromantic terms possible. — Alison Stewart [paraphrased; summary tone]

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. When trad Wife was added to the Cambridge Dictionary last year, you knew the Internet culture entered the mainstream. A portmanteau of traditional and wife. The word describes someone who follows old school gender roles, sometimes engaging in a lifestyle that goes back to the earth. Farming, homeschooling, chickens. Think supermaxing Little House on the Prairie. That's where we find the protagonist of the debut novel, Yesteryear, Natalie Heller Mills describes herself as a, quote, flawless Christian woman. She dropped out of Harvard to marry the son of a political dynasty. They move to Idaho, start their own rants, about to have their sixth kid. They raise chickens, bake bread, and yes, it will be posted on the Internet. Her farm, Yesteryear has brought her fame and a series of problems as well. The biggest one, one day she wakes up and realizes there's no more social media, the world isn't watching. And it appears that a traditional she's a traditional wife and has a traditional farming life in 1855, the cleaning, cooking and surviving. How will Natalie get out of this situation? And what got her there in the first place? The novel Yesteryear is a be careful what you wish for novel. It takes a sharp, biting and funny look at feminism, hypocrisy and perform behavior. It is written by Carol Claire Burke. She is our guest. Hi Carol.

[B]

Hi.

[C]

So when did you first become interested in trad wives?

[B]

In the winter of 2024, I downloaded TikTok on a whim and I very quickly was sucked into that world and I found myself questioning why I was so interested in these visuals.

[C]

What's the difference between a tradwife and a tradwife influencer?

[B]

So a trad wife is someone who just Kind of adheres to these, you know, traditional norms of what it means to take care of your children and maybe be subservient to your husband. A tradwife influencer is someone who performs that online, often for monetization. And so the irony is that very often they're making a lot of money. These women are the breadwinners, but they are performing an idea of subservience.

[C]

Was there a certain post that just clicked off in your brain, like, I need to write about this?

[B]

No, I think it was the volume of how many there were and how many people were talking about it and how many contradictions were rife in the topic.

[C]

Why did you sit down and decide to write about it?

[B]

Well, I've always been a fiction writer. That's how I kind of make sense of the world around me. And I think that the tradwife discourse sits at the intersection of every single conversation about womanhood that I've always been interested in. And so I think that it seemed like such an incredible opportunity for me to explore it in my, you know, in my natural artistic mode, which is fiction.

[C]

How long did it take you to write your first draft?

[B]

My first draft was about nine weeks.

[C]

Nine weeks?

[B]

Yeah. It'll never happen again like that.

[C]

All these writers will say it's very strange. What?

[B]

I promise it's never happened like that before, and it will surely never happen like that again.

[C]

Did your main character come to you just like, you know, some writers say it comes to me from the heavens. And I write down what she says she did.

[B]

Natalie has a very specific voice, and as soon as I found her, I really felt like I understood what the book was gonna be.

[C]

Well, I'm gonna ask you to read the first couple of pages, and then we can talk about the story a little bit more. These. This is the first page. Page and a half of yesteryear.

[B]

This is the last day of the life I imagined for myself. I woke up two minutes before my alarm went off like usual. 5. 58 and Bing. Eyes wide open, ready to greet the day. I've never had a hard time waking up in the morning. Never used the snooze button either. Not once in my life. Sobriety helps. I don't drink. Discipline helps, too. I was born with spades of discipline. I'm practically overflowing with it. Which is why I think I've never had that much trouble with anything in my life. Not motherhood, nor marriage, nor building a business, nor serving him. All of it appeared to me as a series of tasks to be accomplished each day at the right time in the correct chronological order. I know it's not that easy for other people, but it really is for me. That's why all those strangers liked me so much. That and the money. The money definitely helped too. It was winter time, January. A cold front had just blown through the pass by my bedroom window. The radiator was puffing hot air. The sky outside was deep as death black and would be for another few hours. Our farm was nestled in the rolling divots between two mountain ranges in Idaho, which meant we didn't see the sun until nine or so in the winter months. We were located five miles down a long, winding gravel country road. Not even airplanes flew overhead. In the darkness, I listened to the distant mooing of sassafras, our beloved dairy cow. I could tell by the pitch and register of her moans that my husband Caleb was milking her right on time. The man was good. My husband was not disciplined before he met me. He was the youngest of five boys, the runt of the alliter in an American dynasty. His father was the latest senator in a long line of US Senators currently barreling through a presidential bid. Third time's the charm. His mother was a homemaker who had spent most of her life drowning in chardonnay. Together, through a near fatal combination of paternal neglect and maternal sympathy, they had raised Caleb to be soft and spoiled and sweet. But the only thing more valuable than a person with God given traits is a person who's willing to learn. And my husband, that man had been willing to learn. And who was I? A flawless Christian woman. The manic pixie American dream girl of this nation's deepest, darkest fantasies. The mother every woman wanted to be and the wife every man wanted to come home to. Like a nun in a porno. It didn't make sense, but also, by God, it worked. My name is Natalie Heller Mills, and I was perfect at being alive.

[C]

That was Carol Clare Burke. She's reading from her book Yesteryear. So we meet several different versions of Natalie. First of all, Natalie we first meet, we heard a little bit about her life. What did you want us to take away from her when we first meet her?

[B]

Natalie is a woman who doesn't allow any vulnerability to come through. And she has worked very hard for a very long time. By the time we reach the beginning of the novel, to have a perfect performance of a woman as her presentation to the world and. And it's very important to her that

[C]

you see that the next Natalie we meet is her interior Self?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

How would you describe her interior self?

[B]

Natalie's interior self is acidic and ambitious and cold and very funny.

[C]

Why was it important for her to be so funny?

[B]

That was just kind of how she was when I found her. I think her humor was actually very essential to figuring out the rest of her personality. She sees the world with a lot of irony and derision and also clear headedness.

[C]

And then over time. Well, you know, it's interesting because her internal monologue, she's kind of a real witch, maybe with the B instead of the W. What do you need to keep in mind when you're writing a true B word?

[B]

That was something that I think I didn't think about in the first draft. I just tried to have her be who she was. And then in the editing process, you have to make sure that some of her humanity does come through and that you see that she's still struggling and that she has challenges just like the rest of us.

[C]

And then the third Natalie we meet is when she wakes up and she realizes she's in an alternative place. Her life in the 1850s, with laundry that needs to be done. There are traps outside of the house or a trapper outside of the house. Animals that need to be fed or they die. Why did you want to make life so difficult for her?

[B]

Well, I think it wasn't that I wanted to make life difficult for her. It was that I wanted to put her in the time period that she seemed to think was so much easier than the one that we're living in. And so that time period was quite hard for people to live in. There were none of the modern amenities that we are so familiar with now. And so I think it was more of a wanting to push her theories to their final conclusion.

[C]

We're talking out the book Yesteryear. My guest is Carol Clare Burke. It's her debut novel. We talk about Natalie in that intro you read. She's a Christian. She's headed to Harvard. This is before the whole tradwife starts. What is it about seeking education that makes her think this might be her ticket out?

[B]

I think that she's someone who at an early age really does have a lot of ambition and wants to harness that ambition in all of the ways that she thinks are socially acceptable. And so she, you know, is raised as a Christian fundamentalist and thinks that it's acceptable to get a college degree. And so if she's going to get one, she's going to get the best one. And I think she kind of saw herself as a Bit of a prophet until her experience at college kind of told her otherwise.

[C]

Yeah. What does she expect to find when she goes to Harvard?

[B]

She envisions Harvard as, you know, a debating ground of the likes of Socrates and Aristotle. And she thinks she'll be having these grand conversations about religion and spirituality and, you know, the divine will of man. And what she finds is much more, I guess you would say, human than that.

[C]

Her roommate, He's a little problem with her roommate.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Could you describe a roommate for us?

[B]

Her roommate, Rena is, in all the ways that Natalie is a stereotypical kind of cold headed woman. Her roommate is a little bit bullheaded in her own right, but is more of a stereotype of a very liberal woman. And so they don't really see eye to eye on anything.

[C]

And that's where she meets her husband Caleb. He's part of this political dynasty. I'm trying to find this part that I wrote where you wrote about him. Oh, I can't find it right now. What does she hope? What does Natalie see in him? Because you described him as the runt of a political liter of a political family.

[B]

I think she sees her own future kind of laid out in front of her. He's a very nice man and he's interested in her, and that has never happened to her. And he's wealthy and he has stability. And she thinks, well, I've been told my whole life my job is to get married and have children. And so she sees her future rolled out in front of her.

[C]

It's kind of interesting. She likens him not having him having money to not really having a purpose in his life.

[B]

It is funny, he starts out the novel as actually being quite kind and very sweet, and he just isn't ambitious. He doesn't worry about life because he doesn't have to. He has quite a bit of money. But for Natalie, this is an unacceptable outcome to have a man who doesn't have a job.

[C]

And how does that affect her?

[B]

Well, she becomes very much a dog with a bone. It's her job to get Caleb a job and to make sure that he is respectable so that in turn she can be respectable.

[C]

Yeah. The book notes that she agrees to be his wife and she's got to figure out a way to make this marriage work.

[B]

Right.

[C]

How to make it work for her, how to make it work for them. She makes a lot of compromises along the way. And the book mentions that perhaps she should have been a man. Had what's available to men, what would have been available to her. If she had been a man, what does she think would be available to her?

[B]

I think Natalie thinks that if she was born a man, she could have ruled the world. I think she has a very traditional understanding of gender, and so her ambition, her desire to remake the world in her image, she sees those as masculine traits and therefore as failings in herself. And also she sees her husband's inability to harness those traits as failings within him.

[C]

The book also brings in class as well. She's a daughter of a single mom, and her sister is struggling. Her family's from a working class background, and she sort of turns her back on that part of her life. Why does she seem to be at odds with her past and want to sort of launch into a new life?

[B]

I think that any level of instability is something that she is just not fundamentally comfortable with. And, yeah, you mentioned she has a sister who goes through similar marital struggles and ends up leaving her husband and being quite financially unstable. And I think Natalie views this as quite threatening, the idea that a woman could choose, you know, less money and less stability. But independence is something that is counter to every decision she has made within her own life. And so it's an option that she can't consider.

[C]

In the book, she talks about angry women who are out there who have a lot to say about her life and a lot to say online. Who are these angry women in her mind?

[B]

Yes, the angry women are the people who comment on her posts. They're the ones who ironically, give her the most engagement and probably help her monetize her account the most. But they are women that she perceives as liberal and often living in cities and commenting things like, none of this is real life. This woman is faking everything. And Natalie sees herself as having a very symbiotic relationship with these women.

[C]

It's hard not to read this book and to think about politics. How are you thinking about politics?

[B]

Well, I think that the, you know, the plight of womanhood right now is one where I think a lot of women feel like there is no correct answer. There's no correct way to, quote, have it all. To have children, to have a job. And I think, you know, in the last few years, we've seen that come to a head, and a lot of women are hoping for solutions and not really finding any. And so I think we see both political parties offering different, or maybe no answers at all.

[C]

We're talking about the novel Yesteryear. My guest is Carol Clare Burke. All right, Natalie. She wakes up. She's in this house, it's the 1850s. In her mind, she wants. She's a guy who looks kind of like her husband, but kids who could be her kids, they say her. Her kids. What does she think's going on? Is it a bad dream? What's happening to her?

[B]

This is, I think, the central question that she's trying to figure out. I think at first it just feels like a nightmare, like a full body terror. And as time goes on and she still doesn't wake up, she starts to wonder, you know, is this a reality television hoax? Is this a test from God? She's very devout. Is this a punishment from the devil? Is this purgatory? She doesn't know and the reader doesn't know. And so you're. You're moving through all of these theories as you try to find out what's taking place here.

[C]

I don't want to give away too much. I'm not going to give away anything. But she kind of has to stay put for a little while and figure out what's going on.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And then she ultimately has to make the choice about whether she's going to stay or she's going to go. She's going to venture off of the property. Do you think she's a brave person?

[B]

That's a great question. I think Natalie is brave, yes.

[C]

What makes you say that?

[B]

Well, I think that even though she makes every single decision that is counter to one that I would make in my own life, I do think that she often is afraid and she often makes decisions in spite of her own fear. And I think that that's probably the definition of bravery. She finds something within herself to move forward even when she feels almost paralyzed by fear.

[C]

All right. You make the reader wait a long time to find what's happened in the book. Why did you wait so long?

[B]

That's a good question. You know, I don't think it occurred to me that I could do it earlier. Maybe it would have been easier for me if I had. Yeah. I knew that I was working towards an ending and I knew how I wanted the ending to feel. And most of the book was actually constructed with me just stumbling my way through in the dark to get to that ending. So I think that if I had found another way to get there faster, I probably would have.

[C]

What did you learn about pacing in terms of the book?

[B]

Oh, everything. This was a master class. Just in my own experience of creative work, I think, you know, writing a really pace forward book, it's very much about emotion and very much about releasing information at the right time. And all of that was trial by error. I had never written a thriller before, and so it really was. Every day I felt like I was just trying to take five steps forward in the pitch black.

[C]

What have you learned about being an author that you didn't know before?

[B]

I will probably be able to answer that question in 10 years.

[C]

I mentioned at the beginning of this segment that it's already an adaptation to be a film or a TV show. Can you tell us a little bit more?

[B]

Yes, absolutely. It has been optioned to become a film in partnership with Amazon and Anna Hathaway's production team. So she will be starring as Natalie and I think that she will do a stellar job.

[C]

You are pregnant with your first child.

[B]

I am.

[C]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[C]

Has that made you think about the book differently now that that child is finished?

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's funny, there are, there are certain lines that hit me a little bit different. I was skimming through it today. I don't know if it's the book that makes me feel different, but I very much, for a long time didn't want to have a child until I could write a book and get my career off the ground. And so it does feel very much like kismet that it's happening all at once.

[C]

The book is yesteryear. It's great. You can just read it in one sitting. Well, two sittings, three sittings. But you want to definitely read the book. It's really, really good. Carol Claire Burke has been my guest. It is nice to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming by.

[B]

The pleasure is all mine.

[C]

And that is all of up, all of it. Coming up on the show tomorrow, Books, books and more books. Patrick Raden Keefe will join us to talk about his latest London Falling. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here tomorrow.

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