All Of It — Aaron Diehl Performs Mary Lou Williams

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Aaron Diehl
Air date: December 8, 2023

Episode Overview

In this episode, pianist Aaron Diehl joins Alison Stewart in the WNYC studio to discuss and perform pieces from his new album, Aaron Diehl and the Knights: Zodiac Suite. The album revives Mary Lou Williams’ 1940s masterwork, bringing fresh attention to a pivotal but under-recognized composer, pianist, and jazz innovator. Through performance and conversation, Diehl explores Williams' legacy, her contributions to jazz, the challenges of restoring her orchestral "Zodiac Suite," and her profound influence across generations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mary Lou Williams: Unsung Jazz Pioneer

• Background: Williams, born in 1910, was a virtuosic pianist from an early age who became a central figure in the bebop era and later composed liturgical jazz music. She mentored jazz greats and founded a support organization for musicians in need.
• Influence and Versatility:
  • Aaron Diehl (08:19):

    “She lived through the entire evolution of what we know as jazz…at every stage she was able to reinvent herself, modernize her sound, and take all the influences from early on with Andy Kirk to the influences of the younger generation, what they call the Beboppers.”

• Personal Touches: Williams dedicated each “Zodiac Suite” movement to friends (musicians and non-musicians alike), as a gesture of love and connection—not strict astrology.
  • Diehl (02:42):

    “She wrote each of these pieces...dedicated them to various friends, some who were musicians, some who weren’t. She wasn’t like a fervent astrologist…but she wanted to find a way to dedicate music to her friends and people that she loved.”

2. The “Zodiac Suite”: History and Restoration

• Original Form: Composed in 1945, originally for solo piano or piano/bass duo, later expanded for orchestra.
• Significance: First jazz mass at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in 1975; barriers broken for jazz in sacred spaces.
• Difficulty and Errors:
  • Williams’ orchestral manuscripts were rushed, fraught with notational errors, making authentic performance difficult for later musicians.
    • Diehl (13:24):

      “She orchestrated that fairly quickly…They didn’t have all these engraving softwares...Everything was done by hand…She didn’t have time to really go through…all the details and the parts. The rehearsal, apparently, and the performance…was less than stellar...She became really frustrated and shelved this particular arrangement.”

• Diehl’s Process:
  • Used early recordings, careful listening, historical sources, and live experimentation to correct errors and bring the suite to life with the orchestral collective, The Knights.
    • Diehl (15:25):

      “I went to the source, specifically the recording, the original recording she did…There are some obvious…issues that can be pinpointed, but others took consulting people and some trial and error…The privilege of working with The Knights—they were very enthusiastic about this project.”

3. Mary Lou Williams: Spiritual & Social Mission

• From Secular to Sacred: After a hiatus in the 1950s and spiritual conversion to Catholicism, Williams composed extensive liturgical music.
  • Diehl (09:32):

    “She was in Paris…walked away from the piano in ‘54…spiritual conversion…She started her own foundation, the Bel Canto Foundation, which supported people in need, homeless musicians, struggling with addiction.”

• Impact on the Community: Williams’ spiritual music, charitable work, and advocacy left a legacy transcending jazz itself.

4. Performing and Interpreting the Suite

• Artistic Choice:
  • Diehl incorporates both fidelity to Williams’ themes and his own improvisational voice, honoring Williams’ own real-time creative process.
    • Diehl (17:47):

      “Even Williams herself…sometimes she would just, on a broadcast, improvise something and sort of compose really in real time that became the movement. As I’ve grown to understand…these pieces…I try to take more of a free form approach…and try to make it my own.”

• Role Models:
  • Diehl references influences from other pianists who interpreted the suite, especially Geri Allen.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Williams’ Enduring Originality:
  • Diehl (08:32):

    “She was always able to remain modern, remain original, while always keeping true to the foundations of the language of the music.”

• On the Hangouts at Williams' Home:
  • Diehl (08:42):

    “Monk and Dizzy and Charlie Parker—they loved Mary Lou Williams. They would hang at her apartment in Harlem. That was like the hang of the 40s and beyond.”

• On the Orchestral Premier’s Chaos:
  • Diehl (14:37):

    “The rehearsal, apparently, and the performance, which you can actually find on CD somewhere of the Town Hall concert—it was less than stellar, let’s say, and partly because of the lack of real preparation time.”

• On the Recording Process:
  • Diehl (15:44):

    “We had a sort of a reading, and we just read through the whole suite and figured out what might need to be corrected…We recorded it, and I spent several months just trying to work things out.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:23] — Alison Stewart’s introduction, context on Williams, and description of the Zodiac Suite
• [02:36] — Aaron Diehl on Williams’ intentions and history of the “Cancer” movement
• [04:10] — Live studio performance: “Cancer”
• [07:53] — Stewart and Diehl discuss Williams’ influence and biography
• [13:10] — Challenges with the Zodiac Suite’s manuscripts and Diehl’s approach to restoring them
• [16:58] — Clip from the album: “Sagittarius” (with The Knights)
• [17:47] — Diehl discusses his approach to solo piano versions
• [19:27] — Live studio performance: “Virgo”
• [24:52] — Close of the interview

Conclusion

Aaron Diehl’s passionate advocacy for Mary Lou Williams brings her legacy into new focus, demonstrating her range as a composer, her impact on generations of jazz musicians, and her unique approach to both sacred and secular music. Diehl’s live performances and insights reaffirm Williams as a creative force ahead of her time, whose rediscovered work continues to inspire and challenge today’s musicians and listeners alike.