Podcast Summary: Adapting 'Sabbath's Theater' with John Turturro and Ariel Levy

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Date: November 30, 2023
Guests: John Turturro (Actor, Co-Adaptor), Ariel Levy (Co-Adaptor, New Yorker Staff Writer)
Episode Focus: The stage adaptation of Philip Roth's controversial novel Sabbath's Theater, now running off-Broadway.

Overview

This episode delves into the challenges, motivations, and personal impact involved in adapting Philip Roth’s Sabbath’s Theater for the stage. Alison Stewart speaks with John Turturro, lead actor and co-adaptor, and Ariel Levy, co-adaptor and journalist, about their collaboration, the themes of the play, Roth’s legacy, and the adaptation’s bold artistic choices. The conversation touches on grief, sexuality, fidelity to source material, and live audience reactions.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Genesis of the Adaptation (01:00–03:43)

• John Turturro’s Relationship with Philip Roth

  • Turturro describes his longtime friendship and collaboration attempts with Roth, notably a failed stage version of Portnoy’s Complaint after Roth saw him in Quiz Show.
  • Roth’s influence on Turturro’s work, especially his support during Turturro’s involvement in a Primo Levi film.
  • Turturro highlights that theater allows the use of Roth’s original language, which film adaptations often dilute.

• Quote:
  “I always thought that theater would be a great expression because you can use the author's language, whereas in a film they usually rewrite it and dilute it.”
  — John Turturro (03:27)

2. Personal Connections and Thematic Resonance (04:07–05:59)

• Ariel Levy’s Bond with the Material

  • Levy was drawn to the book’s unflinching exploration of sexual urge as life force and grief as universal experience.
  • Both Turturro and Levy have processed personal losses through the work.

• Why Levy Said Yes

  • Collaborating with a favorite actor on a beloved book was an instant yes for her.

• Quote:
  “The emphasis on the venal urge, the sexual urge, the nasty side of existence… that’s some of the life force. It just always rang true.”
  — Ariel Levy (04:13)

3. Motivations for Adapting Sabbath’s Theater (05:38–07:25)

• Why This Book for the Stage?

  • Turturro was provoked and entertained by the book’s wildness but was ultimately attracted by its underlying love story and the protagonist’s capacity for deep connection, despite being a “failure.”
  • Both adaptors agreed the love story would be the through-line.

• Quote:
  “I don’t think I would have wanted to adapt it if there wasn’t this great love story. This man who's this failure is still capable of loving another human being.”
  — John Turturro (06:36)

4. The Collaborative Process (07:26–08:52)

• Working Together

  • Levy and Turturro separately highlighted passages, then found they’d chosen the same ones.
  • They read dialogue aloud, each switching characters, fostering a creative, playful atmosphere.

• Memorable Moment:
  Levy recounts a humorous instance where Turturro called her with “the filthiest stuff you’ve ever heard” to debate wording for a scene—on a crowded train. (08:24)

5. Artistic Choices and Fidelity to Roth (08:52–10:00)

• Editing with Intent

  • The team removed particularly shocking material for playability but embraced the book’s honest, “human animal” depiction, refusing to sanitize its complexities.
  • The story foregrounds loss, grief, and the “animal” side of human nature, not just sexuality.

• Quote:
  “It's a good antidote right now because you’re showing the human animal right out there. You're not trying to hide from it.”
  — John Turturro (09:00)

6. Deepening Understanding of Roth’s Work (10:00–11:08)

• Loss and Grief

  • The collaborators gained a new respect for Roth’s ability to write loss and haunting, especially rooted in personal tragedy, such as Roth’s lost brother.
  • Levy reflects on how, in grief, “the dead are much more real than the living.”

• Quote:
  “Sometimes I have to push it away. It’s so strong… Something he [Roth] was in touch with when he was writing it.”
  — John Turturro (10:17)

7. Portraying 1994 and Character Complexity (11:08–15:01)

• Setting and Social Context

  • Turturro notes subtle period details (no cell phones) but stresses Mickey Sabbath’s feeling of powerlessness and being “canceled” even then.
  • Comparison between critical responses and the controversial nature of the book’s protagonist, Mickey Sabbath.

• Morality & Empathy

  • Both discuss handling Sabbath’s unlikeable qualities with an aim for empathy and understanding—the point isn’t to excuse but to reveal complexity.
  • Levy cites Garth Greenwell: “The morality of the book is showing us that all human beings are more than their worst action.”

8. Sexuality, Carnality, and the Love Story (15:01–16:34)

• Unique Approach to Sex on Stage

  • The central relationship is “between two equal sexual adventurers” — it’s about partnership, not exploitation.
  • Stewart and Levy both call them “carnal soulmates.”

• Quote:
  “It's a love story and a story about carnality between two equal sexual adventurers…That’s a relationship based on equality.”
  — Ariel Levy (15:38)

9. The Importance of John Turturro’s Performance (16:02–17:49)

• Charisma and Humanity

  • Stewart praises Turturro’s ability to make Mickey humane and compelling despite his flaws.
  • Levy commends the blend of intelligence, depth, sensitivity, and playfulness Turturro brings.

• Quote:
  “You need all of that. You need a passionate fellow. And we got one.”
  — Ariel Levy (16:34)

10. Casting Multiple Roles and Theatricality (17:49–19:32)

• Elizabeth Marvel and Jason Kravitz

  • Two actors play all supporting roles. For female roles especially, this amplifies the sense of life’s echoes, of encountering “different versions of the same thing” as one ages.

• Transformation on Stage

  • Marvel changes characters in real time, which the cast and audience find remarkable.

• Quote:
  “We thought having one actor, one actress perform all those roles would amplify that sense of echo.”
  — Ariel Levy (18:26)

11. Tenderness and Loss (19:32–20:46)

• Key Scene: Mickey’s 100-Year-Old Relative
  • Turturro describes the significance: this relative is the last connection to Mickey’s past, making his grief palpable and universal.
  • Roth considered the hospital scene and the one with Mickey’s elderly relative among his best writing.

12. Development & Workshop Process (20:46–22:14)

• From Draft to Performance

  • Early focus was on narrative clarity; later refinements deepened secondary characters.
  • Fidelity to Roth’s language was essential—switching perspectives, but avoiding unnecessary rewrites.

• Adaptation Pitfall

  • Turturro laments that many adaptations ruin what’s best about books by erasing distinctive authorial voices.

13. Live Audience Response (22:16–23:57)

• Talkbacks

  • Many audience members, particularly older ones, feel “invigorated” by the play.
  • Some appreciate the adaptation even more than the book for its energy; a few are uncomfortable with the material, but overall reception is positive.

• Quote:
  “One lady said to me… I feel like I'm alive again. You just, you know, brought me alive.”
  — John Turturro (22:22)

• Levy jokes about fearing negative reactions:
  “Nobody’s thrown, like, tomatoes at you… Which I think we thought might happen.”
  — Ariel Levy (23:40)

Memorable Quotes

• “There are things in the book that, you know, when I recorded it, I was like, oh, my God, I can’t believe, like, I'm saying this, you know, but it's a story, you know, And I think we had to kind of just find the kernel of that or the heart of that.”
  — John Turturro (12:54)

• “All human beings are more than their worst action. There's a whole human existence. There's a… complex character there. And that's part of the function, I would think, of literature and of art and of theater.”
  — Ariel Levy (14:20)

• “We live in a puritanical country. I think I always think of it as junior high school. Like a stunted sexuality in this country.”
  — John Turturro (15:05)

Notable Timestamps by Section

• 01:00–03:43 — Turturro on Roth, adaptation, and friendship origins
• 04:11–05:11 — Levy on what drew her to the project and saying “yes” immediately
• 05:38–07:25 — Why adapt Sabbath’s Theater? Attraction to the love story
• 07:26–08:52 — Collaborative writing process and humor
• 10:00–11:08 — Themes of grief, loss, and the reality of aging
• 12:26–16:34 — Handling morality, sex, and likability in the adaptation
• 18:10–19:32 — Multi-role casting, intent, and theatrical effect
• 19:32–20:46 — Relational tenderness amid carnality
• 22:16–23:57 — Audience reactions and the thrill (and fear) of live feedback

Final Thoughts

The episode provides a rich behind-the-scenes look at the challenges and rewards of translating Roth’s raw, provocative novel to the stage. It’s a powerful exploration of love, grief, sexuality, and the role of theater in probing complex humanity—with both wit and emotional honesty. Turturro and Levy’s chemistry and mutual respect shine, offering an intimate portrait of creative partnership and the enduring resonance of Roth’s work.

Further information:
Sabbath’s Theater runs at the Pershing Square Signature Center, NYC, until December 17, with post-show talkbacks involving cast and creatives.