Anna Marie Tendler Opens Up About Her Time in a Psychiatric Hospital (Mental Health Mondays)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Anna Marie Tendler Opens Up About Her Time in a Psychiatric Hospital

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Episode: Anna Marie Tendler Opens Up About Her Time in a Psychiatric Hospital (Mental Health Mondays)
Air Date: August 12, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" focuses on artist and photographer Anna Marie Tendler’s experiences with mental health challenges, her voluntary stay in a psychiatric hospital, and the process of recounting these events in her memoir, Men have Called Her Crazy. The conversation, part of the series “Mental Health Mondays”, takes a frank, compassionate look at stigma, personal growth, and the interplay between art, trauma, and healing—with the goal of destigmatizing mental health struggles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Recollecting Hospital Experiences

• Journaling as a Coping Mechanism
  • Anna wrote daily details while in hospital, using a notebook instead of her phone, both to pass time and keep a record, not realizing it would later form the foundation for a memoir.

    “A lot of it was just to pass the time...I could look back on this time and really remember it. I never thought that it would be turned into a book.” (01:57, Anna)

Surprises and Relief in Treatment

• Anna discusses her expectation of feeling “crazy” in the hospital, but instead discovered reassurance in the staff’s validation and the shared experience with other patients.

  “When I arrived there and I started seeing the doctors, it was the first time in a while that I didn’t feel crazy...” (03:15, Anna)

Self-Harm and Disordered Eating

• Origins of Self-Harm

  • Anna began self-harming at 14, describing it as a common response at that age for some girls and highlighting the difficulty of rationalizing it in retrospect.

    “I can’t really explain it.” (04:20, Anna)

• Shame and Continuation

  • She elaborates on how shame featured in her self-harm, including concealing scars and not considering future consequences in acute crisis moments.

    “I never had the...lucidity of looking forward. Those moments felt as if they would last forever...” (05:07, Anna)

• Disordered Eating and Control

  • Anna differentiates between eating disorders and disordered eating born from anxiety and a need for control, explaining a shift in her relationship to food once safely hospitalized.

    “As soon as I got into the hospital...I didn’t have to control it anymore. I trusted that I would get the help that I was going to get. And...I never felt good not eating.” (06:21, Anna)

Suicidal Ideation

• Anna shares how suicidal ideation began in her teens and returned later; she emphasizes the heaviness and sense of permanence that overshadows hope during those times.

  “Everything feels permanent. Everything bad feels permanent. And that’s a really heavy, dark feeling.” (07:46, Anna)

Expressing Anger & Gender Expectations

• The memoir contains humor and moments of withheld anger, reflecting on how societal expectations, especially for women, push for diminished expression of anger.

  “We’re taught to hold our anger back...We’re called crazy or aggressive...I didn’t quite have a constructive way to communicate my anger.” (09:25, Anna)

• She describes a cathartic moment mirroring her mother’s anger, realizing afterward that both had changed deeply since those fraught years.

  “If I match her, is that a way to help her understand what it feels like from my side? And...it worked.” (10:59, Anna)

Gender Dynamics and Recovery

• Anna initially requested to be housed without men in the treatment facility, realizing later how arbitrary her expectation was once she saw the reality.

  “After being there, I realized that I would have been 100% okay in the co-ed house.” (13:20, Anna)

Insights on Addiction

• Observing her housemates struggle with addiction brought perspective, helping her understand their humanity and resilience.

  “You...see the human side of it. And...you realize how hard it is and how hard they’re working as well.” (14:28, Anna)

• An especially impactful moment came from an AA speaker’s story of overcoming trauma without relapse.

  “You can go through a really difficult time and...stay healthy.” (15:36, Anna)

Medicalization and Missteps in Therapy

• Anna avoided reading her psychological evaluation report at first, later finding it both limited and at odds with her self-understanding—especially the sections informed by a male doctor.

  “It felt to me as though it was a catalyzation of everything that I think is wrong with psychology as it relates to women.” (16:43, Anna)

• Anna describes the disappointing and abrupt rupture with her long-term therapist, Dr. Carr, which unsettled her sense of trust in clinical relationships. Other doctors’ concern validated her doubts.

  “To have the other doctors sort of flag it...allowed me to trust my instincts that something was off.” (18:58, Anna)

• On Trusting Instincts in Therapy:

  “If you feel that something is off, find a new therapist or bring it up with the therapist and see how they react.” (19:33, Anna)

Photography and Creativity as Healing

• After leaving the hospital, Anna began taking self-portraits as an assertion of existence and a way to channel emotion, especially amid pandemic isolation.

  “It started as a practice to remind myself that I existed...it was a real healing practice.” (20:16, Anna)

• Art-making remains central to her coping and growth.

  “Art has always been an outlet for me...it’s always been something I’ve gone back to when times are difficult.” (21:09, Anna)

Destigmatizing Hospitalization

• Anna hopes her memoir normalizes the experience of psychiatric hospitalization and encourages acceptance of seeking help, while also noting institutional limitations.

  “There should be no stigma in it. If you need help, you need help...Give in to the experience...There’s no shame in asking for help if you need it.” (21:49, Anna)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On journaling in the hospital:

  “I just wrote everything down...so that I could look back on this time and really remember it.” (01:57, Anna)

• On validation during treatment:

  “It was the first time in a while that I didn’t feel crazy.” (03:15, Anna)

• On the permanence of suicidal ideation:

  “Everything feels permanent. Everything bad feels permanent.” (07:46, Anna)

• On humor in mental illness:

  “That was my hope, that people would also find the levity and the humor in it.” (09:17, Anna)

• On therapy falling short:

  “There had been things...that made me wonder, is this normal? Is this within the bounds of normal patient doctor relationship?” (18:58, Anna)

• On art after hospitalization:

  “It started as a practice to remind myself that I existed.” (20:16, Anna)

• On destigmatizing hospitalization:

  “There should be no stigma in it. If you need help, you need help.” (21:49, Anna)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:37 — Discussion on journaling and memory in the hospital
• 03:15 — Anna’s initial feelings checking into a mental health facility
• 04:20 — Origins of self-harm and adolescent struggles
• 05:07 — On shame and living in the moment of crisis
• 06:21 — Disordered eating and regaining control
• 07:46 — Dealing with suicidal ideation
• 09:25 — Suppression of anger and humor in dark times
• 10:59 — Confronting her mother’s anger
• 13:20 — Thoughts on men in treatment spaces
• 14:28 — Learning from others’ struggles with addiction
• 16:43 — Critique of psychiatric evaluation and missteps in care
• 18:58 — Disruptive end with therapist, importance of trusting instincts
• 20:16 — Art and self-photography as healing
• 21:49 — Hopes for destigmatizing hospitalization

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Conclusion

This candid conversation with Anna Marie Tendler offers insight not only into her personal journey through acute mental health difficulties and institutional care, but also into broader issues of stigma, gender, and the transformative capacity of creativity. Anna balances vulnerability with humor and encourages listeners to seek help when needed, trust their own instincts, and recognize the value and limitations of psychiatric care.

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For further connection:
Anna Marie Tendler’s memoir Men have Called Her Crazy is available now, and she continues to use her art as healing expression. She will give a live talk at McNally Jackson Soho, furthering the conversation around mental health in the community.

Transcript

[Informal Speaker 1]

I'm gonna put you on, nephew.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

All right, unk.

[Allison Stewart]

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

[Informal Speaker 1]

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.

[Allison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Listeners, before we begin, we wanted to let you know that this next conversation deals with self har and suicidal ideation. If at any time you feel you need support, please call the National Suicide and Crisis lifeline. The number is 988. It's open 24 hours a day. When artist and photographer Annmarie Tendler decided to check herself into a mental health facility, she felt her life was unraveling. She'd stopped eating. She was self harming. Her marriage to comedian John Mulaney was fraying. The COVID 19 pandemic caused her to feel isolated and anxious. She considered suicide. But during her time in treatment, Anna delved into her complicated relationship with her sometimes volatile mother to the much older man she dated when she was a teenager to a dysfunctional dynamic with her own therapist. Anna recounts this period of hospitalization along with the circumstances that led to her psychiatric hospital visit in her new memoir, Men have Called Her Crazy. We are featuring this conversation today as our ongoing series Mental Health Mondays. Anna Marie Tendler is speaking Friday evening at McNally Jackson Soho location at 5:30pm but first, she joins me now in studio. Really nice to meet you.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

You as well. Thank you.

[Allison Stewart]

When you enter the hospital, you were worried that your little notebook wasn't going to be big enough for you to write down everything in. And in the end, you barely wrote anything at all. Yet your memoir is full of incredible detail. How are you able to recall the vivid details about this time in the hospital?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

So I actually, I had brought a notebook with me. The hospital gave us these very small, kind of laughable notebooks. But I had brought something with me. And because I didn't have my phone on me, because I didn't have email, I didn't have access really to anything in the outside world. I found that I just wanted to keep track of everything that was happening while I was there. And it felt like such a singular experience and hopefully an experience that I would never have again. So I just wrote everything down. A lot of it was just to pass the time. There's a lot of downtime when you're in hospital. And so, you know, I would just write things down like Oh, I went for a walk, or this is what I ate for dinner. This is what we watched on tv. And it was more just to keep a record for myself so that I could look back on this time and really remember it. I never thought that it would be turned into a book.

[Interviewer 2]

What was surprising about checking into a mental health facility?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

I think that the most surprising part of it was that when I arrived there and I started seeing the doctors, it was the first time in a while that I didn't feel crazy. I think it was a period of time when a lot of people were struggling and, you know, because of COVID and just everyone's world was really thrown upside down. And so to even just go into the hospital and have people reflect back to me what was happening, or to say, yeah, people are going through it right now. You're not alone in this. And to be able to talk with the doctors and understand that I had a grip on reality, that I, you know, that I wasn't quote, unquote, crazy was surprising and very helpful, as you can best remember.

[Interviewer 2]

When did you first start engaging in self harm?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

I was about 14 when I did, and from what I've heard, that's a pretty typical age. I think it's. It's such a hard age for girls especially. And I don't know how I came to it, really. Yeah, it was. I can't really explain it.

[Allison Stewart]

Yeah, well, you know, it's. It's interesting because you seem sort of ashamed of it in part of the memoir where you were covering your arms or warning people about scars and you know that you're ashamed. There's something in it that's not right for you yet. Why did you continue to do it?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

The best way I can describe that is that when I was in these acute states of crisis where I was physically harming myself or acting out in a way, always towards myself, it was never really towards other people for me anyway. I was never thinking about the future in those moments. I never had the, I want to say, lucidity of looking forward. Those moments felt as if they would last forever, that there was nothing else that came after them. And so you. I just didn't think about it, honestly. I know that that sounds so bizarre, but in those moments, it was not something I considered.

[Allison Stewart]

My guest is Anna Marie Tendler. The name of the memoir is Men have Called Her Crazy. You had disordered eating before you entered the hospital. But it's interesting, once you entered the hospital, you. You seem like you could have a bag of chips.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Yeah.

[Allison Stewart]

What changed for you in the hospital?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

So, you know, I'm really careful in the book to describe it as disordered eating because I have never felt that I am someone with an eating disorder. I think that that's something very different. This was not a long term issue that I had struggled with. I really think it was born out of anxiety in the beginning and then feeling like I wanted some sense of control over my life. And this was something that I can control, I could control or, you know, in a. Not a healthy way. And as soon as I got into the hospital it. I felt like I didn't have to control it anymore. I felt that I was where I needed to be. I trusted that I would get the help that I was going to get. And like I write in the book, I never felt good not eating. Yes.

[Interviewer 2]

When you checked yourself into the hospital, you were suffering from suicidal ideation. And we can see throughout the book, like what led up to this choice that you thought you had. When you look back now, why did you think about ending your life?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

I mean, that was not the first time I had gone through that. Suicidal ideation had started in my early teens. It felt much different as a teen than it did as an adult. But I. It's hard to explain almost now being on the other side of it, but I think that there is a. When you're in that state, there is a bleakness and you have a really hard time holding on to the fact that there is another day tomorrow and there's another day after that and things change. And truly nothing is permanent. Everything feels permanent. Everything bad feels permanent. And that's a really heavy, dark feeling.

[Allison Stewart]

Ann Marie Tendler is my guest. The name of the book is Men have Called Her Lazy. I want us mention that Anna will be speaking Friday night at McDowelley Jackson in Soho at 5:30pm Tickets are available. Now before we get into the details of the book, there's one thing that cracked me up is you had things to say, but they were in your head. Like in the moment. You sort of were polite and you demurred and yes, no, but then you had thoughts about what you wanted to say. Why didn't you say how you really felt?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Well, first of all, I'm glad that you found parts of it funny because I really, I think.

[Allison Stewart]

Well, sometimes it is.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Yes.

[Allison Stewart]

I mean, it sounds like it isn't, but it is a little bit.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

That was my hope is that people would also find the levity and the humor in it, you know. Well, as women, I really believe that we're taught to hold our anger back. Right. Like we can't express that. We're called crazy or aggressive or if we express our anger in that sort of way. So I think part of it is that I think another part of it is in those times I didn't quite have a constructive way to communicate my anger. And a lot of going through DBT therapy and other types of therapy was kind of learning how to take the immediate anger that I feel or what pops into my head where it's, you know, could be venom and think that's not the most constructive thing to say. Let me think about this for a second and how do I want to get this point across? But when those things were happening, I was not in a place where I could do that.

[Interviewer 2]

You did do it, though, once with your mom. Your mom was a difficult woman, we'll say that.

[Allison Stewart]

And you screamed at her the way.

[Interviewer 2]

She screamed at you.

[Allison Stewart]

Do you remember what made you come.

[Interviewer 2]

To that point where I'm just gonna yell at my mom the way she has yelled at me?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Well, I think, you know, I don't know, it was, I think by that time I was nearly out, out of the house. And my mom and I, the thing is, is we were always really close despite all of this. And I felt that she was a person who had trouble expressing her anger. But I loved her. I spent, I mean, I love her. She is, I love her very much still. We spent so much time together. We, you know, she really dedicated her life to me and my brother. And I didn't want, I never wanted things to be difficult between us. And I think that that moment was kind of a last ditch effort of if I match her, is that a way to kind of help her understand what it feels like from my side? And it was in that moment effective and it worked. Yeah. And I mean, my mom is a totally different person now than she was when she was, you know, when I was in my teens. So, yeah, I think both she and I have come a long way.

[Interviewer 2]

We will have more with Anna Marie Tendler, the author of Men have Called Her Crazy after a quick break. This is all of it.

[Allison Stewart]

You're listening to all of IT on wnyc. I'm Allison Stewart. I'm speaking with artist and photographer Anna Marie Tendler about her new memoir, Men have Called Her Crazy. It's about her time in a psychiatric hospital. Anna will be speaking Friday night at the McNally Jackson Soho at 5:30pm Tickets are available. Now, you were adamant about one thing going into treatment at this hospital, you didn't want to live in a house with men.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Yes.

[Allison Stewart]

Maybe you were even like reluctant to have male doctors. Why were you so dead set against avoiding men?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

I think at that time I felt very angry at men and I didn't want to, I didn't want to look at them like, I didn't want to wake up in the morning and have to interact with them. I, by the way, now, you know, the funny thing is when I end up getting there and I'm in the all women's house, I find out that we actually do everything with the all male house. So that backfired on me. And after being there, I realized that I would have been 100% okay in the co ed house. So that really felt like almost a misstep on me, you know, which I tried to address as well.

[Allison Stewart]

You were put with women who had addiction problems as well, and you were non addict yourself.

[Interviewer 2]

What did you learn about addiction during your time there that's proven useful to you? You didn't expect to have it happen?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Yeah, you know, we had a couple of. Well, I think when you're around people who struggle with addiction, you just see the human side of it. Yeah. So being with those women and being in therapy groups with them was, you know, they're just, they're human beings and you realize how hard it is and how hard they're working as well. And then I write about in the book a. An AA meeting that I went to where the woman speaking had had this incredibly difficult year where she lost people in her family and, you know, didn't relapse. She made it through and right after that, celebrated 25 years sober. And in that moment I realized, oh, you can live through something that is really, really difficult. You can go through a really difficult time and you can stay healthy.

[Interviewer 2]

And that stuck with you.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

It really did. Yes.

[Interviewer 2]

When you're in the hospital, you take a comprehensive series of tests as well as your therapy. And there's a long report that is sent to you, one of the doctors, but you decide not to read it at first. Why didn't you read it?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Well, a large part of the. Of the report had been communicated to me by one of the doctors that I really, really liked so much there. And so I almost felt when I left that I had heard the important parts because most of the report would have been from the psych testing. And as I, as I, as time went on leaving the hospital and I felt better and better, I think I identified less with the woman who went into the hospital and the actual substance of the report became less important to me.

[Interviewer 2]

When you did read the report, what did it say about that woman?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Yeah, well, reading that report was really difficult because I think so much of it. And just to say, not the parts of it that had already been communicated to me by that one doctor. All of that was as I expected. But there were other parts of it that were written by a doctor that I saw less. And it felt to me as though it was a catalyzation of everything that I think is wrong with psychology as it relates to women. And I felt as though the report cast me in a light that lacked a lot of contextual information that was put together by, you know, a CIS straight man, because that's the basis of modern psychology and didn't take other things into consideration. And I really saw the limitations of that report.

[Allison Stewart]

You actually leave the hospital, but you have to make a U turn because of this interaction with your therapist, Dr. Carr, who really has harsh words for you. Will you tell us what happened?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

You know, I'm not really sure what happened, to be honest. And her language was really personal with you. It was, it was. And I think that that whole interaction was really upsetting because I had spent so many years with her as my therapist where I felt like I got so much out of it and it was so helpful. And then to have it end the way that it did was really disappointing and scary as well.

[Allison Stewart]

You weren't. I mean, the other doctors were like, what is this? Yes, the other doctors like, what is this doctor? What is this person doing?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Yeah, I think that was a saving grace as well, because there had been things that had popped up before I went to the hospital that made me wonder, is this normal? Is this within the bounds of normal patient doctor relationship? And so to have the other doctors sort of flag it and say, hey, we're seeing some dynamics playing out here that are not quite right. Allowed me, I think, to trust my instincts that something was off.

[Interviewer 2]

Would you tell someone to trust their instincts who are in that position?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Absolutely. Therapy is deeply personal, and I think it's such a. The therapist and patient relationship is so. Such a singular relationship. But if you feel that something is off, find. Find a new therapist or bring it up with the therapist and see how they react to it. You know, if you really like the person.

[Interviewer 2]

Annmarie Tendler is my guest. The name of her memoir is Men have Called Her Crazy. When you do leave the hospital, you decide to start taking self portraits. What compelled you to start capturing yourself on Camera. And what did you see?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

It started as a practice to remind myself that I existed. Also a huge part of that had to do with the pandemic. I was in my house, I hadn't seen my friends for 10 months. There was nobody else around me. And I thought, well, I'm here so I'm going to use myself. And it was a real healing practice as well. I think when I felt overwhelmed by my emotions, if I changed course and started taking photographs, it really switched something over in my brain and I could focus on something that felt constructive.

[Interviewer 2]

What is a way that your artistry, your photography has helped you deal with your mental health?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

I think it's given me an immense outlet. You know, writing and taking photographs are so. Are so different. Photography is much more vague and there's so much that's unspoken and writing it's. You're putting a fine point on something. But I think art has always been an outlet for me. And you know, when I was young and through all of my years, it's always been something I've gone back to when times are difficult.

[Allison Stewart]

What do you hope that someone understands about hospitalization after reading this book?

[Anna Marie Tendler]

A few things. One being there should be no stigma in it. If you need help, you need help. And I think also to understand the limitations of it as well. To go in understanding that they might say something that you don't totally agree with or you really have to give in to the experience. And granted, people have such a wide ranging experience in the hospital, but I really think that it should be destigmatized and there's no shame in asking for help if you need it.

[Allison Stewart]

Anna Marie Tendler has written a memoir. It's called Men have Called Her Crazy. She'll be speaking Friday night at the McNally Jackson in Soho at 5:30. Tickets are available now. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

Thank you for having me.

[Informal Speaker 1]

I'm gonna put you on, nephew.

[Anna Marie Tendler]

All right, unc.

[Allison Stewart]

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

[Informal Speaker 1]

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.

[Allison Stewart]

A BetterHelp ad. Lewis Capaldi partnered with BetterHelp to get word out about how important therapy can be.

[Lewis Capaldi]

I struggle most weeks to get myself up and ready and go to therapy or whatever. Even to open the laptop to talk to my therapist sometimes can be really difficult. But I do it because I realize how important it is for me to continue to feel good. I felt the best I felt in a long time through therapy.

[Allison Stewart]

Learn more about online [e-mail].