Bells Larson (3:48)

Hey, how's it going? Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart (3:50)

So the album, it features two voices. They're both yours. How did you think about the difference between the two of them and whether to go with one or the other?

Bells Larson (4:00)

That's a great question. And that was kind of my jumping off point for kind of conceptualizing the duo. I. By the time I was ready to capture these songs, I understood who I was. I figured out who I was through writing the music, and then by the end of that writing process, I figured, okay, I have two options here. I can capture the music as my voice is right now, which, as you said at the time, was sort of an alto voice, a high voice, and then have the music be. Or have the album be essentially an album of me asking, what if? If, you know, what if I change? What if I go through this, what if I go through that? Or I can begin hormone replacement therapy through testosterone, wait however long it takes for my voice to drop, and then sing these songs with the person that I would become. And, you know, the last couple of years for me have been, you know, seen, I guess, through the lens of a lot of different dichotomies, this or that, before, after, then, and now. And I kind of figured, you know, I don't know that this needs to be this or that. I think that I can actually maybe try to combine the two, and there's going to be tons of uncertainties within that. I don't know how low my voice is going to drop. I don't know what it's going to sound like, but I might as well give it a whirl. And then, worst case scenario, I'll just have a high voice album if my voice sounds bad.

Alison Stewart (5:22)

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm curious, what language do you prefer to use to describe your two voices?

Bells Larson (5:30)

My before voice, my high voice. Either one is Totally fine. My new, like, old before either one you really want. And then the voice I have now is, I guess, my. My new voice. My low voice.

Alison Stewart (5:44)

Yeah, it's your voice.

Bells Larson (5:46)

It's. They're all. They're all my voices. And, you know, like, when I was mixing the record, the person with whom I mixed it, when. When he was referring to all of the different tracks because there's a lot more vocal tracks than there would be on maybe, you know, like a different album, he. I remember him saying, all of you. You know, he was like, should we mute all? Just because it's essentially like a gang of me, I guess. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (6:12)

When you listen to the album, sometimes they're separate, sometimes they're together. What's it like to hear them in both contexts?

Bells Larson (6:22)

Really beautiful. Really beautiful. Yeah. This album took a very long time to make, and, you know, I know albums take a long time to make, no matter who you are as an artist. Between writing and recording and mixing and releasing, it's a very long process. And that has been all the more true for me because I needed to wait for my voice to drop. And I think that for a lot of artists, there can be a tendency to just want to get the thing out. You know what I mean? You're sitting on a project for so long, and you just want to move on to the next thing. So, yeah. Now, four years later, after having written these songs and hearing the two voices together, I'm just so pleased with how it turned out. I'm really proud.

Alison Stewart (7:04)

I'm speaking to musician Bells Larson. His new album just came out on Friday. It's called Blurring Time. He's joining me now for an all of it listening party. It's a listening party. Let's listen. We're gonna listen to Blurring Time, and we can talk about it on the other side.

Bells Larson (7:19)

Friday night Drinking box wine Alone in my apartment Blurring time the texture of air is stale As I stare in distress at this body of mine Catastrophic soft symphony Rigid dichotomy Complex identity it's not as simple as either or I am both and I am more Most of all I'm unsure.

Alison Stewart (8:23)

That'S heartbreaking Most of all I'm unsure When did you write. When did you write that song?

Bells Larson (8:31)

I wrote that in March of 2021. I had just recorded my first album, Good Grief. And that album was very much focused on the external. I was processing a really large loss that I had just been through. I just finished recording, and I was ready to turn inward and ask, okay, who am I Who am I not? And for a really long time, honestly, up until the end of the writing process of the album blurring time, I didn't really know how to tell people who I was. I didn't even know how to tell myself who I was. I just kind of knew how to tell people who I was not. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (9:15)

Was this album part of. Part of your process for learning how.

Bells Larson (9:18)

To tell people this album was the process? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%.

Alison Stewart (9:24)

There's a song called Might on the album that explores some uncertainties about the future. Let's listen to it, and we can talk about it on the other side.

Bells Larson (9:35)

My voice might get deep Guide might bruise my ears My voice might get deep it might bruise my knees.

Alison Stewart (9:58)

Now let's listen to the same reframe of Might from later in the song. Let's listen.

Bells Larson (10:03)

My voice might get deep I might bruise my knees My voice might get deep I might bruise my knees it's quite a life transition, this undercover mission Calling my own love.

Alison Stewart (10:36)

So, Belz, what do you remember about the beginning of working on that song?

Bells Larson (10:44)

I mean, literally speaking, you know, if listeners want to take a listen to this song after this, the very first thing that they will hear is me, before I transitioned, saying, oh, this is a hard song, which is, you know, the guitar part's a little tricky. So that's me saying that in real time and saying, I think I probably messed up one of the takes or something like that. But also figuratively or sort of metaphorically perhaps, it's also a really hard song. It's the last song on the album, and it's me arriving in real time at the realization that I need to take certain or I need to make certain decisions rather, in order to be closer to my full self. And what that means is, you know what? My voice might get deep. And it's not even really that. It's not my voice might get deep. It's my voice will get deep. And I am a musician. My voice is my main instrument. I don't know how that's going to sound. That's a huge gamble. But in order to be myself, that is what I need to do. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (11:52)

To what extent did you have to learn to. To sort of re. Sing or to think sing differently?

Bells Larson (11:59)

I did. I totally did. Because I was socialized as a woman. I learned how to speak a certain way. I learned how to sing a certain way, and that kind of exists more in what I would call a head voice, a little bit more nasal, perhaps. And I made the choice to Go on a lower dose of test testosterone at first so that the changes would be a bit more slow and steady so that I could stay on top of them, so that I would have more vocal control, so I would have more pitch control, and so that I would speak and sing a little bit more from my chest voice. And here in Canada, we're very fortunate. We have access to a plethora of artist grants, so I was able to apply for an artist grant to fund not only the making of this album, but also I was able to pay for voice lessons, actually, which it was not something I'd ever done before.

Alison Stewart (12:54)

Oh, that must have been interesting to take voice lessons.

Bells Larson (12:57)

Yeah, it was really interesting, you know, because I consider myself a singer songwriter, but I. I never really focused on the singer part of that dichotomy, I guess. And so I. I was learning how to breathe, I was learning how to project. And, yeah, it was. It was. It was very cool. Pretty cool.

Alison Stewart (13:15)

What was really helpful to you about voice lessons? What did you learn that's been really useful to you?

Bells Larson (13:21)

Just that my. My voice is like. It's like my guitar. It's like something that needs warming up. It's like something that needs. You know, I. I keep a humidifier in my guitar when I'm not playing it because that's what I need to do in order to take care of the wood that, you know, makes the guitar. Same thing. I need to. It's okay for me to take vocal rest. It's. It's necessary for me to warm up my voice before a show. It's. You know, my voice is also like muscles that you need to work out at the gym. Like, it's not just this afterthought, I think. And because I was uncomfortable with my voice for a very long time, it was kind of an afterthought, which is, again, ironic because I've always considered myself a singer songwriter. But, yeah, now the singer part is more at the forefront than I think it ever has been.

Alison Stewart (14:10)

I'm talking to musician Bells Larson about his new album. It came out on Friday. It's called Blurring Time. He's joining me for an all of it listening party. We'll have more after. After a quick break. This is all of it. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking with you, musician Bells Larson. His new album just came out on Friday. It's called Blurring Time. He's joining us for an all of it listening party. Let's listen to Another track, this is called My Brother and Me and you sing about masculinity and Jordan Peterson and what it means to be a good man. How have you been thinking about those questions lately?

Bells Larson (14:58)

That's a really good question, Alison. I don't know. I think that over the last four years, because I wrote this song, I guess three, four years ago, so these have been questions that I've been asking myself. The questions that I ask in the song, I've been asking myself for a long time now. And I don't think it's black or white. I don't think it's, you know, quite so clear. I, I, so I don't know how to answer that, to be honest with you. I think it's a similar thing that we were talking about earlier, about being able to tell people who I'm not or, or before, you know, when I started my transition, it was easier for me to tell people who I was not, rather than it was for me to tell people who I was. I think it's a, it's a similar thing, is that, you know, I, I can. Through this song, I was able to tell people the kind of guy I didn't want to be. A little easier than it was for me, or it was easier, sorry, rather to, to tell people the guy, the kind of guy I, I didn't want to be, rather than the kind of guy I wanted to be. But, yeah, over the past three, four years, I think that I've, I've seen representations of masculinity in all sorts of people that I really want to embody myself. And that hasn't just been limited to men, it's been limited to all sorts of people.

Alison Stewart (16:15)

Let's listen to my brother and me from Bell's Larson.

Bells Larson (16:41)

My brother turned 17amonth ago. He's pretty decent as far as brothers go. Is there something I could say to help him out? Ask for kins and wash your hair and do not slouch. I wish he would put down the Jordan Peterson big words won't make you any more mad.

Alison Stewart (17:35)

So, Bells, we've talked a lot about the. It being a document of transitioning this album, but there's a lot more to your record. Romantic relationships, there's family relationships. First of all, is there anything you feel you really haven't been able to say about this album yet?

Bells Larson (17:53)

I don't, I don't think so, to be honest with you. I mean, I think that the main thing that I really try to emphasize is that, yes, I am singing from the point of view of a trans guy. But also, at the end of the day, I'm singing about change. I'm singing about breakups. I'm singing about relationships with family members changing. I'm singing about big life transitions, and that is not unique to me as a trans person. Yes, I'm singing about my voice getting deep. Yes, I'm singing about loving someone in sort of one gender from before and then one gender after. But change is a universal human experience. So I do, of course, hope that these songs resonate specifically with my community. But I think that anyone, regardless of their walk of life or lived experience, can listen to these songs and relate to some degree.

Alison Stewart (18:44)

Do you find change to be hard?

Bells Larson (18:46)

Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. Says the trans guy. You know, but, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. And I like to think that I'm a bit better at navigating it than I was before, but, of course, yeah, change is hard.

Alison Stewart (19:01)

You're from Montreal. You've seen a couple of songs in French. When do you know when a song will be in English or in French as you're writing it?

Bells Larson (19:10)

To be totally transparent, I wrote those two songs to impress my partner, who is Quebecois. So that's how I knew. My partner's name is Noah, and they are from a town that's about an hour north of Montreal called Rosemary. And the first song is called Calming Certain. And I wrote that by sort of. I think I bought a newspaper at the convenience store and just kind of cut it up and just sort of, you know, it was a bit of a collage, poem sort of thing. And I put that to music just to. That was in the first, like, month or two of us dating. And then six months later, I wrote a song called 143 or Un Quatro, which is a number that's really special for Noah, and that is. That's all from my brain, not from a newspaper. And, yeah, it was just kind of my way of trying to tell them I love them in their native language.

Alison Stewart (20:06)

Well, let's hear it. My guest is musician Bells Larson. His new album came out on Friday. It's called Blurring Time. He's joining me now for an all of it listening party. You're on tour right now. Your tour was meant to have stops in the United States, including New York, but you had to cancel those shows because of visa issues. Would you tell us what happened?

Bells Larson (21:33)

Yeah, for sure. So essentially, let me think about three weeks ago. I want to say I was just getting my ducks in a row, as one does when they're organizing a tour, or as specifically a Canadian does when they're organizing a tour, because as Canadians, we need to apply for artist visas to ensure that we are legally able to work in the states. And on March 29, all Canadians who are a part of the American Federation of Musicians received an email essentially stating that X gender markers will no longer be seen as valid. And thus those folks who have X gender markers on their passports will no longer be able to apply for visas. So that made me. That raised alarm bells for me. So I did a little bit of digging and reached out to the people who sent that email to say, hey, I just want to make sure that I'm okay as a trans guy who has an M on his passport. Is that okay? And initially they said yes. And then the American Federation of Musicians followed up a week later to just kind of share the news about a policy that was released On, I believe, April 2 that said that for the purpose of U.S. immigration, one's gender marker on the documentation must reflect that at the time of birth. So because I'm a trans guy and have made the decision to alter my gender marker so that it reflects who I am, so my passport says M. Otherwise said, I am no longer able to apply for an artist visa.

Alison Stewart (23:06)

Do you have any way of touring the US on the horizon legally?

Bells Larson (23:12)

Nope, Nope, I do not. And, you know, I've played shows in the US before. I've played south by Southwest. I played a festival in New York called New Colossus. I played a show in LA once. But these were all under the guise of showcasing. And showcases are typically free for people to attend and artists don't usually get paid for them. So, you know, theoretically one could keep doing things like this. However, I just, you know, I just don't, to be totally transparent with, you, think it's safe for me to do so. So I'd rather not risk my safety. And of course, you know, I. The intention with these shows was to make a buck or two, but also to be able to kind of invest in the US Market, which is super, super important. I've got a ton of US listeners and I really wanted to be able to perform these songs for those people.

Alison Stewart (24:15)

What are you going to do with your time instead? Are you going to tour more in Canada?

Bells Larson (24:19)

Yep, I'm going to focus on Canada for now. Not only Canada, but, you know, I'm going to focus on Europe. I've got a bunch of Canadian shows coming up this spring, and in the fall, I'll be touring with one of My favorite musicians, Dan Mangan. And we've got some Europe stuff in the works, too that has not yet been announced. And, yeah, you know, my hope is that in three and a half years I'll be able to come down and perform these songs and whatever songs I will have written in the meantime. But until then, you know, I'm gonna go where I'm wanted. And I understand that. It's. It's not necessarily a question of me not being wanted down there, but.

Alison Stewart (24:58)

But I'm glad you said that. Because you're wanted.

Bells Larson (25:00)

Yeah, I know. And, you know, it's such a shame because I do feel that for many people, but I think bureaucratically I'm not wanted. Perhaps I ought to say we're gonna.

Alison Stewart (25:10)

Go out on one more song from your album, the Way the Wind Blows. You want to set this up for us?

Bells Larson (25:16)

Sure, yeah. This song is a high voice song. It is the high voice that is kind of driving the narrative of this tune. And it is a so about trying to befriend your ex after a breakup.

Alison Stewart (25:37)

The name of the album is Blurring Time. It is by musician Bells Larson. Thanks for your time, Bells.

Bells Larson (25:44)

Thanks so much for having me.

Bells Larson (26:00)

Why do you cry every year on your birthday? Is it growing pain? Do you not know what to say? Do you start to spiral when you think of aging? Will you take off your armor? And is the fight worth the pain? Why do you think you ought to make up for lost time? When you speak in rhymes you give yourself away why does Vanna call me when she hears you on the radio, you vivid and visual I sing your songs like you know I'm doing so much better than I was this time last year but tell me how you are.

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