Ben Wendel: 'All One' (Grammy Listening Party)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: All Of It — Ben Wendel: 'All One' (Grammy Listening Party)

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Ben Wendel (saxophonist, bassoonist, composer)
Date: January 23, 2024
Context: A Grammy listening party episode featuring Ben Wendel, whose album All One was nominated for Best Contemporary Instrumental Album.

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart invites saxophonist, bassoonist, and composer Ben Wendel to discuss his Grammy-nominated album All One. This intimate listening party explores the creative journey behind the album, delves into the logistics and artistry of making music in isolation during the pandemic, and features discussions of several tracks with stories about their collaborators. The episode highlights the challenges and joys of remote collaboration, the emotional landscape of creating during a global crisis, and Wendel's inventive use of overdubbing to create "little orchestras" for each song.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin and Inspiration of ‘All One’

• Early Musical Obsessions:
  Wendel shares that All One is the fruit of a childhood fascination with orchestras and woodwinds, recounting his love for the sensory experience of being "surrounded by woodwinds" (04:00).

  • Quote:
    “This was the fruition of a childhood obsession and dream...I just loved being surrounded by woodwinds. It felt very special to me.” — Ben Wendel (03:53)

• The Role of Overdubbing:
  The pandemic inspired him to use overdubbing, imagining, “what if I were to just create these little orchestras and go to that safe space that reminds me of being a kid?” (04:27)

2. Instrumental Journey: Saxophone and Bassoon

• How He Started:
  Wendel began with the saxophone, later picking up bassoon on a whim for a school orchestra tour, only later falling in love with its unique sound.
  • “I just did it because I wanted to go to Europe with my friends, and I had no idea that I agreed to learn this crazy medieval instrument. But then I really loved it.” — Ben Wendel (04:46)

3. The Process and Meaning of Collaboration

• Pandemic Collaborations:
  Wendel describes remote recording sessions while moving between cities (Hawaii, LA, Paris, Amsterdam) during COVID, which imbued each collaboration with deeper meaning.

  • “I never got to see anybody in person…we literally played a duet over the phone.” (06:18)
  • This process "fed my soul during that time." (07:02)

• Choosing Collaborators:
  Many were friends or admired musicians. He emphasizes minimal creative direction, preferring to react to what his collaborators brought to the table.

  • “The whole reason I do it is they are already such incredibly fully formed artists that I don't want to guide them too much.” — Ben Wendel (08:08)

  Notable Example:

  • I Loves You, Porgy with Cécile McLorin Salvant was shaped by her vocal interpretation, leading Wendel to adjust his own arrangements in response. (08:38)

4. The Art of Making ‘Little Orchestras’

• Technical Process:
  Using overdubbing, Wendel layered up to 30 takes of woodwinds, employing creative strategies (different rooms, microphones, performance styles) to avoid sonic sameness.
  • “I had to access different personalities within myself to give the sense that it was 30 different musicians... It's a bit of a magic trick.” — Ben Wendel (09:22)

5. Track Highlights and Featured Guests

a. I Loves You, Porgy (feat. Cécile McLorin Salvant) [02:10–03:32]

• A remote collaboration born of pandemic constraints and creative trust.

b. Throughout (feat. Bill Frisell, guitar) [10:33–11:07]

• Wendel explains the interplay of centuries-old bassoon with the modern saxophone, and how effects pedals add new texture.
• Quote:
  “It really is this weird combination of new and old. The bassoon, really, when I hear it, I feel like it's an ancient sound. And the saxophone...feels like the sound of the future.” — Ben Wendel (12:42)
• Alison remarks on Frisell’s “forward and bright” guitar presence (14:01).

c. Tenderly (feat. José James, vocals) [16:06–18:19]

• Recorded acapella, Wendel built an orchestra around James' unaccompanied take—a technical and creative experiment.
• The song has personal resonance: “That is the song he sang to his wife on their wedding. And so it was very, very precious to him.” — Ben Wendel (18:46)
• José heard the full track for the first time after Wendel completed the orchestration.

d. Wanderers (feat. Terence Blanchard, trumpet) [21:44–22:45]

• Wendel shares his admiration for Blanchard, who is both a friend and a hero, delighted to now share a stage with him in upcoming performances (22:54).

6. Reflecting on Creativity During the Pandemic

• Time Capsule Effect:
  Listening to the album now, Wendel reflects on the emotional complexities: “There is a feeling that runs through all of it, which was that feeling that was very hard to describe...a mixture of, yeah, joy and sadness and loneliness and a desire for connection.” (20:15)

7. Grammy Nomination Moment

• Wendel found out about his nomination by accident:
  “I started getting a lot of text notifications...Then at a certain point, a friend of mine...tried to call me and I said, hmm...I think maybe I just got nominated for a Grammy.” — Ben Wendel (23:22)

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Notable Quotes

• “She’s just remarkable...I literally saw her in my mind’s eye and I knew she would be incredible on it.” — Ben Wendel on working with Cécile McLorin Salvant (07:27)
• “These are like my love letters to these guests.” — Ben Wendel (14:12)
• “Music is kind of timeless in the sense that when you have this old and new intersecting, then it’s sort of like time becomes irrelevant.” — Ben Wendel (12:42)
• “If anything, I had to learn new things...what I call the musician's path, which is just a path of learning.” — Ben Wendel (14:57)
• “It was very challenging. But...perfect example of something that I had literally never done before.” — Ben Wendel on recording "Tenderly" (18:32)

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Key Timestamps

• [03:53] — Origins and inspiration for All One
• [06:18] — The significance and challenges of collaborating during COVID
• [08:08] — Working creatively with fully formed artists
• [09:22] — Overdubbing: making a “little orchestra” solo
• [10:33 – 11:07] — Introduction to “Throughout” and the use of effects pedals
• [12:42] — Interplay of bassoon and saxophone: “ancient” vs. “future”
• [16:06 – 18:19] — Story and performance: “Tenderly” with José James
• [20:15] — Reflecting on the emotional context of the album
• [21:44 – 22:45] — Performance of “Wanderers” featuring Terence Blanchard
• [23:22] — Wendel recounts his Grammy nomination moment

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Memorable Moments

• Remote duets over the phone — A vivid picture of pandemic-era creativity, with Cecile McLorin Salvant in Brooklyn and Wendel in Maui, collaborating from afar (06:18).
• Inventing new processes out of necessity — Recording vocals first, then building an orchestra after, as with José James (17:34).
• Emotional candor — Wendel’s reflections on how, even now, “time-traveling” occurs when he hears the album, recalling the mix of isolation and connection that defined its creation (20:15).

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is warm, curious, and musical, balancing technical insight with heartfelt reflection. Both host and guest maintain an atmosphere of creative enthusiasm and mutual admiration, inviting listeners into the evolving process of making art under unusual circumstances.

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This summary has captured the essential content and spirit of the episode, giving listeners an accessible yet thorough understanding of Ben Wendel’s All One and the conversation around it.

Transcript

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[Ben Wendell]

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[Ben Wendell]

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. As we get closer to the Grammys, we continue our series of Grammy listening parties with saxophonist, bassoonist and composer Ben Wendell. Wendell's album All One is nominated in the best contemporary instrumental album category. Let's listen to the first song on the album. This is I Loves yous, Porgy with vocals from Cecile McLaurin Salvant.

[Ben Wendell]

I love you, Porgy. Don't let him take me don't let him handle me and drive me mad if you can keep me I want to stay here with you forever and I'll be glad I love you, Porky. Don't let him take me don't let him handle me with his hot hand if you can keep me I want to stay here with you forever I've got my man.

[Alison Stewart]

In the song, you hear lots of elements, but it's the work of Wendell alone. It's a pandemic album made completely by himself and featuring one collaborator on each song. So all that layering and orchestral arrangements you hear, that's just him. Joining me now in studio For a Grammy listening party is Ben Wendell. Ben, welcome to the studio.

[Ben Wendell]

Thank you so much.

[Alison Stewart]

Alison, what was the original idea for this album?

[Ben Wendell]

The original idea? I think the original idea was this was the fruition of a childhood obsession and dream. Basically, I. I started playing saxophone and bassoon when I was very young. I was obsessed with orchestral music and playing in the marching band and wind ensemble. I just loved being surrounded by woodwinds. It felt very special to me. And I think as an adult, you know, I'm in the middle of the pandemic. I'm experimenting with this technique called overdubbing. And I thought, what if I were to just create these little orchestras and go to that safe space that reminds me of being a kid?

[Alison Stewart]

Which came first, the sax or the bassoon?

[Ben Wendell]

In the beginning. In the beginning, there was the saxophone.

[Alison Stewart]

And then what a. I can understand as a kid what appeals about a saxophone.

[Ben Wendell]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What drew you to the bassoon?

[Ben Wendell]

The bassoon. Well, to be honest, I was very lucky. I was in a public school that had a strong music department that was in Santa Monica. They had an orchestra, and they were invited to go to Spain and Germany for a youth competition. They needed a second bassoon player. I just did it because I wanted to go to Europe with my friends, and I had no idea that I agreed to learn this crazy medieval instrument. But then I really loved it, and I loved the sound of it. It's really quite an extraordinary instrument.

[Alison Stewart]

When you began working on this project, you just explained the original idea. When did the idea of collaborators come in?

[Ben Wendell]

You know, I think I'm finally at the age where I can sort of look back at what I've done so far, and there's definitely a clear pattern, which is that I really love collaborating. I just love it. I love learning through the process of working with people that I think are extraordinary. And so that was just yet again, this natural feeling of, you know, I'm sort of experimenting with making these little orchestras. But I just had to reach out to people that I knew as friends or not even as friends that I. I've always admired and wanted to work with. So that's how it started.

[Alison Stewart]

Follow up on the making with collaboration, knowing that you always, always liked it. What felt different about it during the pandemic? Did it take on more meaning because we weren't seeing people, or was it more awkward? How did the collaboration feel different?

[Ben Wendell]

It was both. It definitely took on more meaning during that period of time. I was actually, believe it or not, moving around quite a bit with my wife. I won't get into all the details, but needless to say, during the course of that period of time, I was quote unquote, stranded in Hawaii, then in Los Angeles, then in Paris than in Amsterdam. And so the album was made as we were moving around and kind of reinventing the wheel in each city. But for example, the track that you just played with Cecile McLaurin Savant, I mean, it was very surreal. I never got to see anybody in person. And so I remember calling her. I think she was in New York at the time, and I put her on speakerphone and I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, can we. Can we do the song together? Okay, let's find the key. And we literally played a duet over the phone. And I think I was in Maui and she was in Brooklyn. I don't even know. And, you know, but that connection and being able to focus on that space, it really. It really fed my soul during that time.

[Alison Stewart]

What made Cecile McLaurin savant the person that you wanted specifically for this song?

[Ben Wendell]

You know, sometimes in the creative process, something pops into your head and you just don't question it. So I've always greatly admired Cecile. She's just remarkable. And I think I was messing around with an arrangement of I Love Zu Porgy, and I just literally saw her in my mind's eye and I knew she would be incredible on it. So it's not much deeper than that.

[Alison Stewart]

And that's a standard that's been performed by Ella and Nina Simone, so many people. What were the conversations like with Cecile about how do we do this? It's such a well known song. How do we make it our own? How do we honor what it is?

[Ben Wendell]

Well, in the case of Cecile, actually, honestly, in the case of most of the people I collaborate with, the whole reason I do it is they are already such incredibly fully formed artists that I don't want to guide them too much. I kind of want to see what they do and then react to it. So in the case of Cecile, we had some conversations about it. I mean, Gershwin has always been one of my musical heroes. But in terms of what she did, I literally didn't know what she was going to do, and it was just extraordinary. And what she did actually was very surprising. And when she sent me back the vocals and I put it together with what I had recorded, I actually adjusted some of what I had recorded to kind of accommodate what she did. So there was this sort of weird digital back and forth that was happening. A very slow conversation.

[Alison Stewart]

My Guest is Ben Wendell. The name of the album is All One. It is nominated in the Best Contemporary Instrumental Album category. We're having a Grammy listening party for the album. So you said something. You've said it twice. And I thought, I have to ask him what he means. She said, I make these little orchestras. I'm making little orchestras. What does that mean, practically, when you're making a little orchestra by yourself, what's happening?

[Ben Wendell]

Yeah, so there's this technique called overdubbing. It's been around for quite some time. So basically, it allows you to layer audio tracks on top of each other. And I'm proud to say, I think, in terms of layering upwards of 30 bassoons and saxophones, this may be the first album that has attempted this. But, yeah, what that means is that essentially I had to envision all of these interlocking voices, and I had to play in a way that's very complicated. I don't know how to say it correctly, but basically, I had to play in a way where, let's say, I had to access different personalities within myself to give the sense that it was 30 different musicians. Because actually, there's this thing that happens when you use the overdubbing technique where you can hear this kind of sameness. There's this sort of feeling like, oh, I think I recognize it's one person. So I. I did all kinds of stuff. I recorded the different instruments in different rooms, different microphones, and then literally behaved differently as I was tracking everything. So it's a bit of a. Bit of a magic trick.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, with all that in mind, let's hear another song throughout featuring guitarist Bill Frissell. We're gonna play a minute and a half from the beginning. What would you like people to listen for at the top of the song?

[Ben Wendell]

Oh, my God. Well, I mean, Bill Frizzell is absolutely one of my heroes. He sort of transcends his instrument. I guess the thing to listen for would be how these instruments speak to each other. The combination of bassoon, sax. I'm also using effects pedals, which is not very common, commonly used with saxophone and bassoon.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a listen. So what is it about the bassoon and the saxophone, Ben, that they complement each other?

[Ben Wendell]

Yeah, it's really interesting. They're instruments that are on the opposite sides of a timeline. The bassoon, literally is a very old instrument. It's a medieval instrument. And quite frankly, it hasn't been updated that much. It's still very difficult to play. Meanwhile, the saxophone was built in the middle 1800s. It's a very new instrument and took on a life of its own. It kind of didn't quite fit in with the orchestra like it was intended. And as you know, it essentially took over the world. It ended up in, obviously, jazz and marching band and all these different worlds in the pop world. So, personally, I love the combination of saxophone and bassoon because it really is this. This weird combination of new and old. The bassoon, really, when I hear the bassoon, I feel like it's an ancient sound. And when I hear the saxophone, it feels like the sound of the future. And in a way, you know, music is kind of timeless in the sense that when you have this old and new intersecting, then it's sort of like time becomes irrelevant in a way. So I love the feeling of those two instruments kind of colliding.

[Alison Stewart]

And I also loved how forward the guitar, how Bill Frissell's guitar was very forward and bright and leading. But not overwhelming.

[Ben Wendell]

Totally. I mean, definitely for me, having these different guests, you know, these are like my love letters to these guests. So I'm glad that you heard it that way. I mean, these are offerings to master musicians, and so I wanted him to be in the forefront.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Ben Wendell. The name of the album is All One. It is nominated for a Grammy for Best Contemporary Instrumental Album. In that category, we are having a listening party. He's a saxophonist, bassoonist, and composer. Working in this way by yourself with all these different layers, did you have to unlearn anything? Did you have to remind yourself, like, I don't have to do that, or, oh, I need to break that rule in this case?

[Ben Wendell]

That's such an amazing question, actually. If anything, I had to learn new things. And I think that's actually what I love about the creative process and what I call the musicians path, which is. It's just a path of learning, you know. So in doing this, there were so many technical challenges to figuring out, okay, how do I accommodate these guests? How do I combine these instruments? And every single track was different. I wouldn't say, yeah, I didn't have to unlearn anything, but I. Yeah, I had to. I had to sort of expand my understanding of how things would work. So, you know, for example, with. I'm trying to think with Jose James is a guest on the album. And for example, with him, we happened to be in Amsterdam at the same time. I thought of this idea, okay, how about I have him come over and sing tenderly, completely acapella, alone, without a track, without anytime or anything. Like that. And. And then I'm going to build an orchestra around him. So to do this was incredibly technically challenging, and. But I loved the challenge, and I learned so much doing it. So that's just an example.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, I. We pulled tenderly oh. So we can listen to it. Let's take a listen.

[Ben Wendell]

The caress the trees tenderly the trembling trees Embrace the breeze tenderly Then you and I came wandering by and lost Lost in a sight were we the show was kissed by sin Tenderly I can't forget how two hearts meant breathlessly.

[Alison Stewart]

That is from the album All One. My guest is Ben Wendell. So that happened while you were in Amsterdam, and I believe you said Maui, Paris, New York. So legit. How long did it take to make this album?

[Ben Wendell]

It took from beginning to end. Yeah. Maybe almost two years. You know, it would. It just happened in pieces. You know, every time that we. That we moved, we were basically living out of four suitcases, and I had my bassoon and my sacks with me every time we moved. I had to kind of figure out a place to record and all of these kind of things. It was very challenging. But in the case of Jose and that experience. Yeah, he happened to be in Amsterdam with his wife. We were. We were kind of became Covid bubble buddies. And that is the song that he sang to his wife on their wedding. And so it was very, very precious to him. And. Yeah. But. Yeah, perfect example of something that I had literally never done before. He just sang that with. I gave him a starting pitch, and he just sang it exactly as he wanted. No click, no time, no nothing. And then I just literally wrote that orchestra around him. And it was really my favorite moment was inviting him back maybe a month later, after I had laid down the orchestra and just, you know, say, put on the headphones, Tell me what you think. So then suddenly he heard this whole world around this performance that he just sang completely on his own. And anyway, that was very gratifying for me. He was happy with what he heard.

[Alison Stewart]

Given that you made this during the pandemic, when you listen back to it now, we're in a very different place culturally and socially. Obviously, people need to be still careful about COVID but we're out and about and we're in the world. Does it sound different to you now?

[Ben Wendell]

Yes. I was thinking about just being here with you. It's interesting how music sounds different even with who's listening to it with you. So just being in this room with you and listening to it, definitely, I feel some time traveling happening, and it's interesting to hear that music and realize that there is a feeling that runs through all of it, which was that feeling that was very hard to describe. I mean, I think it was different for everyone during the Pandemic, but it was certainly a mixture of, yeah, joy and sadness and loneliness and a desire for connection.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's play the track Wanderers. And this features Terrence Blanchard, longtime friend, someone you just wanted to work with. I don't know. What's your relationship with Terrence?

[Ben Wendell]

Terrence, yeah, just longtime hero. I mean, both as a film composer. Well, now an operatic composer. And all of his albums. Yeah, he was just someone that was always on my. My bucket list. And, yeah, I just. I. I think I just reached out to him. I told him what my idea was. I played him one of the tracks I had already done, and he was on board. And now we're friends. I'm getting to play with him in the New York Phil this coming weekend, and it's just an absolute joy to be around folks like that and learn from them.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear Wanderers.

[Ben Wendell]

Sam.

[Alison Stewart]

So I see that you, Ben and Terrence are going to be, as you mentioned, at Lincoln Center. It's called Film score live on January 28th. Is it what it sounds like?

[Ben Wendell]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited. Yeah, it's going to be his music, and I think it's the New York Phil playing with his group, the E Collective, and I'm going to be a guest. There's going to be also Liz Wright and Kurt Elling, and. Yeah, what can I say? This is. I have to pinch myself in those moments, you know, like, oh, I'm doing that.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, enjoy it as well.

[Ben Wendell]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

Where were you when you found out your album was nominated for a Grammy?

[Ben Wendell]

I was at home. My wife was home. At that moment. I was on a phone call and with someone. I don't know who I was. I was speaking to a friend in Europe, and suddenly I started getting a lot of text notifications. I had completely forgotten that that was the day of the announcements. And so I just kept ignoring the. You know, I don't even know what we were discussing. But then at a certain point, a friend of mine who actually had won the Grammy last year, the great Taylor Eichstie, a piano player that I play with quite a bit. Then I saw him try to call me, and I said, hmm. So I told the friend. The friend. I was like, you know, man, I think I need to get up the call. I think maybe. I think I just got nominated for a Grammy. Really? You know. And, yeah, it was great. I was so glad to not know that that had happened. That's the best way to find out.

[Alison Stewart]

Ben Wendell is nominated for a Grammy for all one in the best contemporary instrumental album category. Thank you so much for coming to the studio.

[Ben Wendell]

Thank you so much, Alison, for having me. Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

We're going to go out on Speak Joy from the album all one.

[Ben Wendell]

Letting.

[Alison Stewart]

You know on tomorrow's show, celebrated chef Jamie Oliver. His latest cookbook features 200 recipes from salads to desserts. Each one only has five main ingredients. He'll join me in studio to talk about five ingredients Mediterranean. And he will take your questions and calls about cooking that is happening tomorrow. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you, and I will meet you back here next time.

[Ben Wendell]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Ben Wendell]

Yeah. I'll let you get back to your food.

[Alison Stewart]

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[Ben Wendell]

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[Alison Stewart]

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

[Ben Wendell]

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.