← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Bill Sherman's Behind Some of You and Your Kid's Favorite Songs
00:29:37
Bill Sherman discuss his career in music, and previews the second season of "Donkey Hodie," streaming this summer.
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- [00:00]
Alison Stewart
All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the Name youe Price Tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by state law not available in all states. Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org this is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. I hope you're staying cool. If you're looking for a place to get out of the heat, there are hundreds of cooling centers all across the city. You can find them on the city's website and nyc.gov or by calling 311 or you can find a link on our Instagram at all of it nyc. You can also stay cool with us tomorrow right here at the WNYC Green Space. The band from the Atoni Award winning musical Buena Vista Social Club will be performing live on our show starting at noon tomorrow. We'll hear live music and conversation from the show's cast and creative team for a special live radio broadcast. So join us in the Green space. Go to wnyc.org events first. Tickets are first come, first serve and the doors open at 11:30am you won't be guaranteed a seat if you show up late, so make sure you get there early. We have to be live on the air at noon and if you can't make it in person, you can still listen on the radio or watch the live stream. For more info, go to wnyc.org events that's in the future. Coming up on today's show, we'll be joined by Joanna Sokol, a paramedic and author of A Real Emergency Story from the Ambulance. We'll talk about about iconic album covers with Billboard editor Joe lynch, and we want to know your favorites. And we'll kick off the 2025 Summer Reading Challenge. That's the plan. So let's get this started. Bill Sherman is a musician not only behind some of your favorite SO songs, but also your kids. He won Tonys for his work on orchestrating and arranging Musicals like Anne Juliet and In the Heights, not to mention a Grammy for the Hamilton cast album. But he's also won Emmys for his work as the music director for Sesame Street. Bill Sherman is behind the music for a new show called Don Quixote, a PBS kid show from Fred Rogers Productions. Don Quixote takes place in the land of somewhere else, just north of the neighborhood of Make Believe. Donkey and her friends live their lives and solve their problems with all kinds of music, from pop and rock to sea shanties. Let's listen to an example. This is wiggle your giggles out.
- [03:33]
Bill Sherman
Sometimes it's exciting when you play and you don't want the fun to go away. It helps you settle down when you move around and you can slow it down. You can wiggle, wiggle, wiggle your giggles out. Shake, shake, shake your arms all about. Jump to the front and then jump to the back. It can help you calm down now float to one side then float to the other. Stretch one time then stretch another. Reach way up high from the sky to the ground. It can help you calm down. Now you're relaxed.
- [04:18]
Alison Stewart
I'm calm already. The music of Don Quixote is streaming now also on PBS Kids. Please welcome Bill Sherman to the studio. Nice to meet you.
- [04:26]
Bill Sherman
Nice to meet you, too, Allison. Thanks for having me.
- [04:27]
Alison Stewart
That was a great song, by the way.
- [04:29]
Bill Sherman
Thank you very much.
- [04:29]
Alison Stewart
That's my favorite so far.
- [04:30]
Bill Sherman
Clyde the Cloud. Yeah. It's very funny to talk to people about writing songs for children. I sit in my basement and I try to do this and then they sort of get played on the radio. And it's just very to go from my small basement to this is just very bizarre to me, and it's fantastic. Thank you.
- [04:50]
Alison Stewart
I want to hear a little bit about your story before we talk a little bit about Don Quixote. You grew up on Long Island.
- [04:55]
Bill Sherman
I did.
- [04:56]
Alison Stewart
What's your origin story? How did you get into music?
- [04:59]
Bill Sherman
Well, that's a good question. I originally wanted to be a marine biologist, which didn't work out because here we are. But I played the clarinet. I had a great music teacher in elementary school who then hit me to the saxophone, which sort of became my instrument in life and moving forward from there. And a really great story about that is that man. His name is Gary Meyer, and he taught me at Lloyd harbor elementary on Long island. And he now is the saxophone player in the Sesame Street Band. So I sort of did a little paying forward and, you know, all that kismet business. And I felt really great thing to Do. Anyway, so I studied music there, and then I went to Wesleyan University in Connecticut, and I wanted to be a saxophone player. Both my parents are doctors. They didn't know that that was a profession, but they supported my journey, as it were. And then, as luck would have it, while at Wesleyan, I met Lin Manuel Miranda, the famed Hamilton creator, et cetera, et cetera. And he and I became fast friends and have been ever since then. That was a long time ago. We'll just leave that at that. And he sort of introduced me to musicals. I grew up on Long island, like you said, and so my family would come and we would see musicals from time to time. Wasn't necessarily my thing. And then Lynn was like, do you want a music direct? And I said yes. And I had no idea what any of that meant. And it was like a very fast learning curve. And we worked on his shows in college, and then we graduated from college, and he was like, hey, we're gonna. I did this show in college. I had not seen it while we were there. He said, it's called in the Heights. It's about people growing up in Washington Heights, and it has Latin music and all this stuff. And seriously, like, nothing I knew anything about. And he's like, we're gonna try to make it into a Broadway show. So we developed it over years and years and years and at the Drama Bookshop in Midtown with the help of some other friends from Wesleyan, Thomas, Kael.
- [06:44]
Alison Stewart
Neil, the whole posse.
- [06:45]
Bill Sherman
The whole. Yeah, they call it the Wesleyan Mafia for a reason. Like, there's a lot of. Everywhere I go now these days, like, somebody never, you know, somebody went there. And so we developed in the Heights over eight years. I don't think this is the thing. People don't know that musicals take really long time to make. So it was like an eight year journey. And then we did that. And then from there, everything sort of took off. And I don't know how origin we want to get. And then we worked on, you know, the Electric Company, and then Sesame street, and then Hamilton.
- [07:11]
Alison Stewart
And then.
- [07:12]
Bill Sherman
Let's fast forward to Here we are.
- [07:13]
Alison Stewart
Were you a good saxophone player?
- [07:14]
Bill Sherman
I was a. You know what, Alison? I was a great saxophone player. And I was so into it, and it's just sort of become a thing. Like, I just don't do that much anymore. It sits in my studio in the corners, sort of like staring at me and getting, you know, blaming me for not playing it. And. But yeah, but I sort of. I taught myself how to play the piano, and I can like, sort of get the job done as it were, composing. But, yeah, the saxophone was sort of like my first love and definitely the thing I really enjoyed to do. And then it just. I don't know, it just sort of as, you know, things evolve, people evolve, life evolved. It just sort of went away.
- [07:45]
Alison Stewart
How did you talk your doctors, who you said were parents into believing that music could be a career for you?
- [07:55]
Bill Sherman
I think it was a multi tiered conversation. I think initially it was, you know, this is my passion. And I think they respected the fact that I had a passion and they wanted me to pursue that, which was pretty amazing. I think when it became, like, when I. When I started to be able to support myself, I think that was sort of the moment where they're just like, oh, he can actually do this. And I think my dad and I to this day still talk about this. Like, whether you're a creative person or a doctor or whatever you do. Like, there's a lot to be said just for hard work. And I think that both my parents work really hard still to this day. They're in. They're almost 80, and they both work all the time. And so I think. I think they. They saw how much I wanted to work at and wanted to make it work and be the thing that I pursued in my life. And so I think they sort of. I wouldn't say they resigned because now they love it. And my mom, you know, my mom is very excited. I was coming on the show, by the way. She texted me this morning all the time, so, hi, mom.
- [08:44]
Alison Stewart
Hi, mom.
- [08:44]
Bill Sherman
She's very excited. And so. And so, yeah, eventually it just became the thing that I do. And then. And now, you know, they come to all the shows and they love being around it. And so it's a big full circle moment.
- [08:55]
Alison Stewart
So you work hard, you learn to work hard, right?
- [08:58]
Bill Sherman
Yeah.
- [08:59]
Alison Stewart
When you're setting down to write a song or to work on your craft, what kind of environment do you need to have a creative side, but also to get things done?
- [09:09]
Bill Sherman
It's a good question. So I live both in Westchester and in Hoboken, New Jersey. And so in Westchester, I've built this beautiful studio in my basement, and I'm there all the time. A funny story about that is there's no windows. So I picked this very weird, like, baby blue nursery color to sort of like, provide an environment. And now when I'm on zooms and people see this ridiculous. I always apologize. Just. I'm sorry, this is a really weird look, because to me, it's just like, why, why, why did I pick that color anyway? And then. And then in Hoboken, my girlfriend lives in Hoboken, and I sit at the kitchen table with a laptop and I do the same work in both places. And it's just so. I think, you know, I've been doing this for what seems like forever. I guess it's like 20 some odd years. And so it's mostly just in my head. And most of the times when I'm writing a song, it's when I'm driving from one place to another. So I'll drive and I'll voice memo a melody or whatever, and then I'll be like that. And then I'll get home and 90% of the time I'll play it back and that'll be the thing I use. And then 10% of the time I'll sort of take that and adjust it into something else. But like, I don't. I don't know how you feel about this, but like after you've been doing something for so long, it sort of becomes second nature, you know, I. If I. If I need to write a song and I sit down and I can't figure it out in like 15 minutes, then I'll either like take the dog for a walk or take a nap or like go do. Or take. Just go do something. Most often it's napping, but we don't want to admit to that. And I'll wake up and sometimes I'll have it and sometimes I don't. And then the other thing that I do is if I know in my bones that I don't have it, I will call somebody up and ask who I know will have it and ask them to do it. And it's taken me a long time to get to that, but I think that that's really important. It's just particularly a creative thing. Like if you know you don't have it, that's okay. And like find somebody who has it and then everybody wins, you know?
- [10:52]
Alison Stewart
My guest is musician Bill Sherman. He's the music director for Sesame street and arranger and orchestrator of Anne Juliet and In the Heights. He most recently was the co executive producer of Don Quixote, sort of a puppet series from PBS Kids and Fred Rogers product. You can see the videos now. They're streaming on PBS Kids and YouTube. You've written thousands of songs over your career?
- [11:14]
Bill Sherman
It seems like that, yes. It's a lot. I couldn't tell you an exact number. I mean, I could, but I don't Know what. Exactly what it is. It's a lot.
- [11:22]
Alison Stewart
When you're writing for kids, how has it made you a better writer for songs?
- [11:29]
Bill Sherman
So, you know, the average, Excuse Me American pop song is like three and a half minutes long, right? You know, two and a half now. Yeah. Right. Depends on what era we're in. Absolutely. So it's longer, though. Like, they have bridges and more than one chorus or more than one verse. And I think with kids music, it's like a minute and a half. You have a minute and a half to pack everything in. So my phrase with that is, like, it's always all killer, no filler, you know, so it's verse, chorus, verse out. And that's sort of the vibe for the song. And so I think the challenge is to sort of create an earworm melody that works for the verse and an earworm melody that works for the chorus, which I guess is sort of the key to any song. But particularly with kids songs, if you can get a kid hooked and becoming both the melody and the chorus, then you sort of won the thing. Right. And so that's the challenge, though. And then the challenge is also, like, you don't have a ton of time to do that, so you, like, you have to start big. Like, there's no long intros. There's no. None of that stuff. And there's no, like, instrumental breaks. And also a thing I've been talking about lately is there's not a lot of, like, held notes because, like. Because children's music, you're trying to. At least the ones that are sort of like, learning focused or educationally focused, are always trying to pack as much information into the song as they can. So it's not a lot of held notes because you're just trying to get all the info all the time. So that's the. That. And. And lately, sort of people who become, like, writers for me and I work with, I'm always telling them that we're not. Don't think about writing a kid's song. Think about writing a great song. And I think that that's the most important thing. And the reason I say that is, like, if I'm in the car with my children and they're. They're playing pop and they're playing all the top 40 hits, and they, of course, know all of them and TikTok and Snapchat, that. And they know all of the things. They're so smart. And so I always feel like I'm always writing for them and what their ears are hearing and They're a little older than my demographic, but for the most part, it's like you write a catchy song, you write a catchy song, and I think a kid can sort of feel that and hear that. And I think.
- [13:25]
Alison Stewart
Do you write with parents in mind? Because my kid's 17, but when he was like that age, you heard it endlessly. If he liked a song, we heard it a lot.
- [13:35]
Bill Sherman
Yeah. We do have many a song on repeat. In fact, it's funny you bring that up. I was driving with my daughters yesterday, and we were on, like, a Disney kick. We were, like, just living in the Disney universe, and then we'd gone to a recording studio. Yeah. Yes, we do live in a repetitious sort of world. And honestly, it's funny you bring that up because sometimes a lot of the stuff in educational shows is often repetitious to sort of nail in the educational component of the song. So it's like call and response or just like saying the same thing over and over and over again just to sort of really nail in the educational aspect of it. It.
- [14:07]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk about Don Quixote.
- [14:10]
Bill Sherman
Absolutely.
- [14:12]
Alison Stewart
Much like Don Quixote, in fact.
- [14:14]
Bill Sherman
One and the same.
- [14:15]
Alison Stewart
One in the same. Is it.
- [14:17]
Bill Sherman
Well, Don Quixote is sort of. Is a Fred Rogers, like, quirky take on that particular thing. And so Don Quixote is herself a donkey and a puppet and this incredible character that was sort of like this other. Other than Mr. Rogers neighborhood. This was sort of this other thing that he did. So it's Don Quixote, it's Purple Panda. They live in somewhere, someplace else, and they, you know, they go misadventures. And it's a very. It's a very well done, smart show. And one of my favorite things about it is the producers of it, who are Spiffy Entertainment and Fred Rogers Productions, they give me a sort of carte blanche to almost do whatever I want. And so, you know, one day Donkey will be singing a bluegrass song, and then the next day there'll be, like an EDM thing, and then the next day there'll be, like a hip hop thing, and you sort of get to do whatever you want. And I love that. And it's very rare that I sort of get that sort of, you know, ability or people grant me that to do really whatever I want. And so sometimes, of course, I'll push it too far and write some ridiculous song that's just absurd. And then they're like, well, not that.
- [15:18]
Alison Stewart
But okay, well, you know, you hear that. It's produced by Fred Rogers Entertainment. That's huge. Do you think about the legacy of what he wanted to do with kids? When you're writing the songs, it's so.
- [15:31]
Bill Sherman
Funny you asked me that. So I knew I was coming here, and so I was walking the dog last night, and I was thinking about legacy, and I think legacy is such an interesting thing to me. There are people in my life who are very interested in their legacy, and then there are people who are not. And so I don't. I think that there's an innate pressure of working on things like Sesame street and Fred Rogers. Pressure is the wrong word. An innate responsibility. Responsibility to, like. To, like, uphold this high level of stuff. And I've always said to myself over the years, like, if I. If at any moment I feel like I'm not like Fred or Joe Raposo or whatever, wouldn't be proud of this, then I should quit. What?
- [16:13]
Alison Stewart
You went all the way?
- [16:14]
Bill Sherman
Yeah. Which sounds like, very dramatic.
- [16:17]
Alison Stewart
Just take a nap. It would have been okay.
- [16:19]
Bill Sherman
And then I'd wake up and I'd have the new sunny days or whatever. But, yeah, I do feel that. And I think that that helps me sort of keep a really high level of composition and whatever in the songs that sort of are coming into those shows. But, yeah, I mean, there are some days where I forget that it's like, it's Fred Rogers, it's Sesame street, it's all these things. And then there are other days where it's like, oh, I better get it together. Like, this is a lot to live up to, you know, and, like. And so many of those. I mean, I like to think that, like, as I took over the job at Sesame street and with Don Quixote, that it was like you were writing the new classics. But that's a really hard bar to set for yourself because, like, classics are classics. And the reason they. A lot of. The reason that those things were such a big deal is they were at the beginning of something. And I'm taking over something, like, like, many years into the sort of evolution of it. And so it's a different. It's sort of like sustaining a legacy. Or, like. Or, like, sometimes it's. Sometimes it feels like you're redefining it. Sometimes it feels like you're not. I don't know. It's. It's. It. The answer to your question is yes, it's. I do think about legacies a lot because I'm sort of, like, inundated with them. And, yeah, I feel like it's my Responsibility to keep the level of everything as high as possible.
- [17:36]
Alison Stewart
All right. In Don Quixote, there's all kinds of music. You mentioned it. Pop, rock, country, New Orleans swing, sea shanties. We're going to listen to.
- [17:45]
Bill Sherman
I love that we're going to listen to this one.
- [17:47]
Alison Stewart
A song about a sea shanty. How did this come up?
- [17:52]
Bill Sherman
That's a really good question. I think I was sent, if I remember correctly, I was sent a page of lyrics. And the top it said sea shanty. And I was like, well, you know, as a kid from Long island, from a whaling town, I know sea shanties very well, which is a total lie and absurd. But I was like, all right, you know, let's. And so I just. I listened to a bunch of sea shanties and I was like, oh, okay. Like, I get this. And the funny thing about that is not a lot of kids songs are written in six or three, right? So. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding ding. And so this was kind of fun to get to, like, sort of live in that neighborhood a little bit.
- [18:21]
Alison Stewart
Here is Donkey Sea Shanty by Bill Sherman. Hee haw hee o the anchor.
- [18:30]
Bill Sherman
Here we go. KE KE bow wow we love this.
- [18:35]
Alison Stewart
Boat from stern to bow we'll sail.
- [18:38]
Bill Sherman
The sea, you and me and sing this donkey sea chantee Hee haw he.
- [18:45]
Alison Stewart
O g bow wow the sea is calm, we sail along Sing our happy sailing song Don Quixote and her crew.
- [18:58]
Bill Sherman
Riding on the ocean blue Hee haw.
- [19:02]
Alison Stewart
He all day he bow wow I'm a duck and I can float But I prefer life on a boat when.
- [19:13]
Bill Sherman
The sea gets rough My greatest wish is to play some fetch with a dog fish Hee haw heigh o See.
- [19:22]
Alison Stewart
Now, I wouldn't have thought about the same till you mentioned it.
- [19:25]
Bill Sherman
Yeah, six six, eight, three, four. For sure. Yeah.
- [19:29]
Alison Stewart
Why are you laughing?
- [19:30]
Bill Sherman
I just. Because that's. That I. I don't write a lot of sea shanties. And so it's funny that we played that particular one. And also I remember I usually start writing songs on piano and I was like, sea shanty. So I started on accordion. So there's a lot of accordion in that. And like, one does not often lead with. Unless you're like Weird Al. One does not, like, lead with the accordion. And so I just remember that blaring in my speakers and thinking, oh, this is. This is quite something.
- [19:56]
Alison Stewart
So anyway, my guest is Bill Sherman. He's the music director for Sesame street, an arranger and orchestrator of and Juliet in the Heights. He most recently the co executive producer of Don Quixote, a music puppet series from PBS Kids and Fred Rogers. Fred Rogers production music videos for the show are streaming on PBS Kids and. Okay, so last month, after a lot of really bad news around PBS and npr, it was found out that Sesame street has reached a distribution deal with Netflix.
- [20:26]
Bill Sherman
Correct.
- [20:27]
Alison Stewart
First of all, how did that. How did you react to the news?
- [20:30]
Bill Sherman
Exciting. I thought we were sort of waiting around to see sort of where Sesame street was going to find a home, and we found this wonderful home with Netflix. So it's super exciting for everybody.
- [20:39]
Alison Stewart
On your normal day as being the music director of Sesame street, what's it like? What's your day like?
- [20:45]
Bill Sherman
I want everyone to think that I, you know, I go to breakfast and Elmo is sitting there and enjoy eggs together. But that's not really how that happens. It depends. So we just finished. We just wrapped season 56, which is the craziest thing to say out loud on the radio. Season 56, we just wrapped a week ago, I think, or soon. And so the first half of the year is usually like, I get scripts, and the scripts are made and approved, and then we sort of figure out what the songs are going to be for the episode. And then we were, you know, we write them and we do that, and then we record the vocals, and then we shoot all the episodes within, like, a month. And then starting in July, we sort of go into post and we do all the underscoring and do all this stuff. So it's like a. It's a bit of an ebb and flow, but, like, that's generally the scope of the thing. And then there's other sort of things that are dispersed between there. But that's basically the idea.
- [21:31]
Alison Stewart
You work with so many different guests, so many celebrities from. I think Michael B. Jordan and Renee Rapp was on. Who's a guest? Who surprised you the most with their musical talent?
- [21:41]
Bill Sherman
Oh, there's so many. And I get this question a lot, and I can't believe that I can answer it with, like, the names that I can answer it with. But. So two of my favorites are Ed Sheeran. So Ed Sheeran came in. We were in a studio in Brooklyn. We'd written this song, and he really liked it. And then he sang. He's known as, like, just nailing it the first time all the time. And he did that. And then he goes, do you want me to sing the harmonies? And I remember saying I had not written any harmonies. He's like, I got it. And I was like, okay. And so he just like, Proceeded to do all of these harmonies, and it was just like, okay, well, there's Ed Sheeran for you. And just nailed it. And then the other person who is, like. Who I referred to as a vocal assassin is Nick Jonas. I wrote this song called Check that Shape, which was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever written. And he. He came in and he added all of this stuff to it, and he just. And he was. Everything was one take and just nailing it, and I was just like, well, that was really impressive, and I was really amazed by that. And then there's probably, like. I think the other thing that at Sesame street we've done in the past is done parodies of songs and for someone to come in and, like, nail alternate lyrics of a song that they've known forever, but then, like, not being able to do it because they're so used to saying one particular thing. My favorite example of that is Macklemore came in and we did a parody of Thrift Shop. And it was really early in the morning. He's like, I don't usually get out of bed this early anyway. So he, like. He nailed the whole thing. He's like, these lyrics are insane. And he, like. It was. The whole thing was really wild, and it was very fun to watch him do that. Yeah.
- [23:13]
Alison Stewart
Do people ever get intimidated that they're gonna be on Sesame Street?
- [23:18]
Bill Sherman
I wouldn't call it intimidation. I think people. I think people have an expectation of what being on Sesame street is like. And I think that when they get there, it's never the same thing. It's sort of. I always say, and this is a total nonsense thing I say is walking onto Sesame street is like walking into the Oval Office. I've never walked into the Oval Office, but I assume that it's that same sort of, like, take your breath away moment. And so when they get there, like, everybody's. You know, I think childhood sort of flashes before their eyes, and then they turn. Some people just, like, turn into a child again, and there's, like, the eyes of wonder and, like, the puppets are there and the set. And, like, I think, you know, when you're small, Sesame street seems like this giant place, and it's like a whole street, and it's a whole thing. And then when you get into the studio itself, like, it smells different, and it, like, it's positioned in a way that, like, maybe you wouldn't have have expected, and you forget that. And then I go every year, and it's just like, oh, my God, that's it. There's so much magic in here. And, like, you maybe bring a friend or a composer or somebody who wrote the song, and they're like, oh, my God, this is. And then you sort of remember. It's a wild experience.
- [24:21]
Alison Stewart
We got a text here that says, what is your favorite song from Sesame Street?
- [24:27]
Bill Sherman
Like, ever?
- [24:28]
Alison Stewart
I guess.
- [24:29]
Bill Sherman
Okay, I will say. Okay. So the first song I ever wrote for Sesame street is what I Am by Will I Am or Will I Am sang this song called what I Am, and it was the first song I ever wrote. And I remember not ever the first time I wrote for Sesame Street. And I remember being there and I was writing with a friend of mine, the famous Chris Jackson from Hamilton, and I called him on the phone and went to voicemail because he never picks up the phone, and. And I sang the first bit of it to him, and then he called me back, like, five minutes later. He's like, I got it. And then we sort of developed this song, and then we got to work with Will I Am, which is a very interesting, cool experience. In fact, his studio was in the same building, weirdly enough, Chung King Studios used to be, I think, used to be in this building.
- [25:15]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. Def Jam, too.
- [25:16]
Bill Sherman
Yeah. And so. And so it was a total mind trip. And also, like, the first, like, major thing that I've ever. That I had ever written. So that was pretty cool. And then, like, in general, you know, I mean, talking about, like, legacy and this kind of stuff, like songs like Sunny Days and then songs like who are the people in your neighborhood? And then, like, all the Fred Rogers stuff. Like, all that stuff's pretty hard to beat. And like, once you sort of, like, get in and start studying it, it's so complex and so simple at the same time. It's like, what was an earworm back in those days? What's an earworm now? What does it sound like this? Anyway, it makes me just sort of think about, you know, the art of.
- [25:50]
Alison Stewart
Songwriting and stuff like that that you mentioned. Chris Jackson from Hamilton. They're celebrating their 10th anniversary.
- [25:58]
Bill Sherman
Amazing.
- [25:58]
Alison Stewart
Did you watch the Tony.
- [26:00]
Bill Sherman
I did. I watched Tony's, and they were fantastic.
- [26:03]
Alison Stewart
What is it about the arrangement, when you think about Hamilton, the arrangement of Hamilton that still holds up 10 years later?
- [26:11]
Bill Sherman
Oh, that's a good question. So the arranger and orchestrator of Hamilton, Alex Lacamore, who is one of my dearest friends. I don't know, man. That show. The thing about that show that's so interesting is there's so much information, but yet you're able to sort of take it all in and then, like, sing it back. And I think that's sort of like, Lynn's talent is like. It's, It's. It's like hit after hit after hit after hit. But yet it. You don't get hit fatigue, you know, you. You. You're able to sort of. All those songs are in your bones. Like, talk about in the car with my kids. Like, we put that on last week, and we're just sang it down the whole thing. And I always joke with them because I produced as part of a team that produced that record. And so I've listened to it a million times. And so there was a time where I just, like, couldn't for like a year or two or three. And then so when we put it back on, they look at me like they want to get that reaction like, oh, not again. But then I was, like, kind of into it, and so we all leaned into it, and then they like particular songs that are not my favorites and vice versa. So we, like, we go back and forth, we argue about the whole thing, but I don't. I don't. You know, who's to say about a lot of that stuff? It's the longevity of art. It depends on who it hits. And I mean, the interesting thing about Hamilton is it hits so many generations and so many demographics. It's like taxes. It's like a thing we can all agree upon. Right. Is that it's hard not to like Hamilton. Like, yes, it's a lot of information, but my daughter was watching it at school, and then she told her friends, I don't know. It's such a worldly, you know, defying piece of work that it's hard to sort of quantify or qualify or any of that stuff. And I'm just. It was so nice to see the original cast on the Tonys because so many of them have, like, Hamilton was like, their first major gig and they've all gone to do these things, but they all came back together because they all agreed and loved this one thing, and I thought that that was really cool also. They looked really cool and they performed really well, and it sounded awesome and blah, blah, blah.
- [28:02]
Alison Stewart
Okay, so you have an Emmy, a Grammy, a Tony.
- [28:07]
Bill Sherman
Yes.
- [28:08]
Alison Stewart
Tell me about any film work you have coming up.
- [28:12]
Bill Sherman
This is what my mom gets on me. My mom, once I won the awards.
- [28:15]
Alison Stewart
You have an ego. Call it ego for now.
- [28:17]
Bill Sherman
I have plenty of an ego. Some can attest to that. Yes. So my mother, when she found out or when she was actually when I won those awards, she just was convinced that I was gonna win an Oscar, and she did all this research. And then I'm on these crazy lists with Bette Midler and Al Pacino, and then it's like, me, which always feels very funny to me. I score some films. I don't know if I ever will score a film that is of such stature to win an Oscar. That would be fantastic. It's not something I'm looking out for, although it would be super cool. So what's interesting, it's like a lot of egots haven't happened until this past, like, five or 10 years. And that's a lot of our friends like Justin Paul and Ben Pasek, the guy who wrote the Greatest show, they just egoted, like, I don't know, last year, and Bobby Lopez and his wife, and they're amazing. Like, all of these great songwriters who sort of live in the world that I live in, which is like this theater, poppy, whatever the heck you want to call it. And so all have written songs for Sesame Street, P.S. which I'm very proud of. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, all of that seems very nice. All of the honors are bananas. And I would never in my life have imagined that this would be part of it. And it's. It's. Yeah, it's. It's very. It's quite an honor to have all those. Those things.
- [29:37]
Alison Stewart
It's fun to talk about, but you're interested in film?
- [29:40]
Bill Sherman
Yes. I mean, yes, I have scored films. I'm working on a couple films now. It is enjoyable. Yeah. Just another side of the brain, you know, it's like writing songs for kids is one thing, and scoring films is a completely different thing. I will say that, like, scoring films is very mathematical and very specific. And it's not necessarily the brain, the stem, if you will, that I use that often. So it's like, a bit of a challenge for me to do that stuff. And so I. It's more of a learning process, and I'm much slower at it than I am. Like, I can't write a film score in 15 minutes, although I wish I could, because it's making life much easier. But, like, you really, like, pour over, like, a one minute and a half long queue, right? Which seems crazy to me. Like, I'd spend a whole day. Whereas, like, I could write 10 kids songs in a whole day, you know. So, anyway, it depends on what. What you're doing, you know, most.
- [30:22]
Alison Stewart
To be continued.
- [30:23]
Bill Sherman
Yeah, for sure.
- [30:24]
Alison Stewart
My guest has been Bill Sherman, it was really nice talking to you.
- [30:27]
Bill Sherman
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
- [30:29]
Alison Stewart
Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult.
- [30:34]
Bill Sherman
Life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.
- [30:39]
Alison Stewart
With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on.
- [30:43]
Bill Sherman
Your kids spending with real time notifications.
- [30:46]
Alison Stewart
Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place.
- [30:53]
Bill Sherman
Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com podcast.
- [30:57]
Alison Stewart
Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.