← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Bobbito Garcia's Life in Basketball
00:28:58
Bobbito Garcia is an influential New York DJ, author, filmmaker, radio host, and park hooper.
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- [00:00]
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios, SoHo. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show we'll hear a live performance from singer songwriter Ellery Ward. I just met her, she's lovely. We'll continue our full bio conversation about the abolitionist Charles Sumner and we'll get some suggestions for what to add to your podcast queue. And we want to know what you're listening to. That's our plan. So let's get this started with Bobbito's Book of Bee Ball Bomb. Two documentarians referred to Bobbito Garcia as a basketball sage. While he has been a legendary DJ and cultural historian, basketball has always been central to who he is. He played at every level of the game as a pro in Puerto Rico in college and high school. But his obsession started on courts and playgrounds early around New York. Perhaps most importantly, the goat on 99th in Amsterdam. For Bobbito, basketball has been his muse. So it's fitting that he has written a new memoir about his life story through his memories of hooping. He writes the book is dedicated to those who quote those who have crashed against poles, chain link fences and asphalt after taking it to the butter and have gotten up and kept playing. The book is called Babito's Book of Bibal Bong Bong. It's out today. Bobbito Garcia, welcome back to wnyc.
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Bobbito Garcia
Wow.
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Hi. First of all, so good to see you. So great to hear your voice. And just big up to Luke and your entire production staff for making this happen because this has been months in the making. I was like, am I gonna get on? I'm gonna get on like a little kid, you know.
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Alison Stewart
Of course you're gonna get on. It was interesting though cause we're going to talk about your history and all. But there's something really interesting. Your book, you write playing ball was enriching my soul. How did basketball have such an impact on your soul growing up?
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Bobbito Garcia
Yeah, well, I mean it's not just growing up, it's still to this day. And the memoir documents my life from I'm born in 1966. It's 2025, we're living in a pandemic. We have a new administration. There is a lot of things going on globally that just, you know, are detrimental to our joy as we watch them unfold. And I've constantly, whether it's been my educational quandaries as a youth or as an adult dealing with social justice issues, I always turn to basketball as that eternal space for me to express myself in my most unique, creative and natural way. I don't feel like myself in any other environment other than when I'm on the asphalt. And that's not to say, I mean, you mentioned, you know, that I've made some marks and as a DJ and as, as a filmmaker and in other entertainment realms, but ultimately I'm a ball player first, I'm a ball player last. That's how I want people to know me. And yeah, I mean, I felt it was, it was a joyride to write this book and, and shout out to Edge of Sports slash Akashic for publishing it and to any mom and pop brick and mortar stores out there carrying it today, you know, big up, you know, thank you, thank you. I hope it's right by the cash register, you know, give me, give me, give me. Nice placement.
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Alison Stewart
Your memory is unbelievable.
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Caller
You write about specific plays that happened.
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Alison Stewart
In games way back in the 70s. How did you rely on your memory for this?
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Bobbito Garcia
Sure.
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Alison Stewart
Any other material did you use to suss it out?
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Bobbito Garcia
Sure, absolutely. Well, you know, as any historian will tell you that, you know, you rely on your sensibilities and your own writings. I've been keeping a journal since 1990. I have very fond memories of my childhood. Very exact. And you know, I don't know. I mean, some people have said you called me a B ball sage. Some people have called me a savant. I. What I've witnessed, to me is life affirming, but also like life changing. So how could one not remember the first time that they hold their newborn or the first time that they eat a slice of pizza, you know, when they've never had just, you know, all these things that we go through and, and that the marvel is, for me, the fascination is with basketball. And that's why I remember some stuff. But, but, you know, let's, let's. I am a fact checker and I am a nerd, and I double checked, you know, if I made a claim that this woman was the best player in the city in this era, I, I went to like five different coaches and players. And would you agree with this statement? And so, you know, A lot of the beauty of, of New York City playground history is that it's a lot of folklore. A lot of it is not embedded in, in documentaries and, and, and other books. And so, you know, I mean that's, that's, that's the, that's, that's the sort of, the catch of it is that like I was able to write about this in an honest manner and authentic one as a Latino voice who was raised on hip hop. So that puts my book in a unique space that is unprecedented. I mean there's other books about the city, the city game, and they've been incredible, but never in the voice that I presented. And, and no knock on other authors, but most of them aren't from New York or they're not people of color and that, not to say that there aren't, you know, they don't have the ability to write about it. But the way I'm writing about it is an insider's take in a, in a passionate way and a rhythm that a ball player who doesn't read the New York Times would still appreciate it. But it's also copy edited and presented and it's tight so that the literary world could also be like, wow, this book is incredibly written. And that's my hope that I have multiple audiences enjoy it.
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Caller
Listeners, did you grow up around New York City? Did you play basketball? We want to hear from you. Give us a call. 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Do you have a favor court to play on? Do you like watching pickup games at tournaments in the summer? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. My guest is Bobbito Garcia. His new book about him, about his life, about basketball is Bobbito's Book of B Ball. Bong Bong. Part memoir, part history of pickup basketball in New York. So you played every day for years. You cut high school to go play. You bring your ball everywhere and then, you know, serious.
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Bobbito Garcia
Do you.
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Caller
When was the moment when you became obsessed with basketball, when you became dedicated to the game?
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Bobbito Garcia
Yeah, I mean that's, that's 1980-81, the winter. And I'm not proud of having cut classes at Brooklyn Tech, but I just caught the fever like nobody's business. And I just, I had to become a better ball player. Basketball in the city, as some of your callers will, will share, is everywhere. You can't escape it. We have 700 plus courts. I did A love letter in documentary form titled Doing it in the park, pick up basketball NYC. It was on PBS, Netflix. This is, was released 12 years ago. I've been, I've been documenting this movement for decades. I was writing for the Slam magazine and Vibe magazine, the source in the 90s. And you know, prior to that, I mean I, you know, my book is not just a history of New York city basketball since 1960. It's my personal narrative, but it's also an art book. My 35 millimeter photography is in there for the last 30 years, most of which has never been published. And so it's a triple threat that I'm very proud of. But yeah, when I was 14, I just, I just got overtaken where I'm pop culture challenged. Alison. Like, you know, people make jokes about, you know, you know, I don't know, good times or whatever. You know, I don't even know what's happening, whatever. TV shows are huge and Mad Max. I don't know anything about that. I was playing ball.
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Caller
That's it.
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Bobbito Garcia
That's all I wanted to do. That's all I still want to do. I'm about to be 60 in 2026. I just want to play ball. I have dreams about playing basketball, you understand? Like as a 58 year old, I'm still having, waking up, I'm at the park. Like it's just, it's, it's just, it's ingrained in me.
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Caller
What about New York basketball makes it a unique experience?
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Bobbito Garcia
Well, New York just period is a unique experience, right? We know that as New Yorkers, if you're born and raised here or if you've moved here and lived here long enough, right? But in the, in, in the, in the basketball space, right, you have an intersection with hip hop, you have an intersection with, with sneakers. You have an intersection, intersectionality, as Linda Sauso like, likes to, to say. I mean, I've played at courts where one player is unhoused. That's not going to happen at NYU Call Center. That's not going to happen at the Levy and Gym in Columbia. That's not going to happen at the New York Athletic Club. That's not going to happen at the Reebok Club. It's not gonna happen in Parks and Recreation Department gyms. It can only happen in the outdoor space, right? I've had games where members on the court were non binary, non gender conforming. I've had, I've had such a range. I've played three on threes with priests. I'm not saying like all five players were priests. And me, it was like, there's a priest, there's me, there's a yuppie. I mean, where are you going to get that mix of players? Not at a tennis club, not at the golf club. It's basketball.
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Caller
It's the true meaning of diversity. It's a true meaning of diversity.
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Bobbito Garcia
It's, it's, it's the true essence of, of activity. And you know, it's the number one participatory sport in the world right now. And it hasn't even reached its peak. That's the, that's the, like, that's the most uncanny thing about it. And we live here in New York and the centerpiece of the movement, it's the mecca. Every. I've traveled to 47, 48 countries around the world, six continents, New Zealand, Senegal, you know, Costa Rica. Everybody wants to play in New York outdoors. They don't say I want to play at Master Square Garden. They want to say, they say I want to play at West 4th and Rucker Park.
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Caller
Yep, Good case.
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Bobbito Garcia
That's incredible. We are household names for this sport globally. Yeah, no other city could say that.
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Caller
Let's take a couple calls. Let's talk to Craig from the Bronx. Hi, Craig, thanks for calling all of it.
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Hey, how you doing? There used to be a court way over on the east side in the 90s. That was one of the only courts that was lit with lights.
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Bobbito Garcia
Yeah, 96 and First Avenue, right by FDR Drive.
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Caller
It was so awesome. And we used to play there. Me being a tall, lanky white kid, we were lucky if we stayed on for two rounds. These guys were so freakin good. And if you, if you had a breakaway, there was no one near you and you were going to the basket on your own, you knew you were getting thrown in the fence and you were praying that it wasn't that hard. And we used to call that the anti Mima treatment because you have the chain link lines all over your body when you got thrown in. So that was, you know, but love playing there. And like you said, you meet everybody. We even play with a couple of girls who are way better than me.
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Thanks for calling Craig. Let's talk to Leah from Manhattan. Hi Leah, thanks for calling all of it.
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Hi. I'm so excited to hear this conversation. I just joined my first pickup basketball league this summer. I did it because, like you, I'm just so passionate about playing basketball and getting to join the people on the crew and on the team. Shout out to nerd basketball. I Travel from Inwood all the way down to Greenpoint just to play these games.
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Bobbito Garcia
But it's been fun.
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Caller
It's a co ed team. And as a woman, it's been fun. This is the first time see the change in demographics where I thought it was really just immensely. But I love hearing how you've seen it change demographically. Is there any women's pickup team that you follow or that you're excited about, you want to give a shout out to?
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Bobbito Garcia
Absolutely. Well, there's a dear friend of mine named Amber Batchelor. She was featured in the New York Times. I was the one who told the Times about her. But she started an all women's pickup run on Sundays at the Goat, which is a legendary park in basketball folklore, but it's also legendary in the hip hop space too, because it's also known as Rocksteady Park. So 99th street in Amsterdam, they're there Sundays. And she started from the pickup run, catching so much steam. She started a tournament called Ladies who Hoop and then Future Ladies who Hoop for young girls. But Ladies who Hoop is the first tournament possibly in the world that's run by women. All the referees are women, the announcer is a woman, and all the players are women. And they're on 92nd street between Central park west and Amsterdam and Columbus. Every weekend you can look up Ladies who Hoop online. You can find out more information about them. But Amber is a leader in this space and she set off. Now, there's other pickup runs around the city. In Brooklyn, right off of 5th Avenue and 5th street and Park Slope, there's an all women's run, there's a trans run organized by basketball dolls in Brooklyn and Bushwick as well. It's, you know, again, the outdoor space is just so welcoming. I mean, it's not always cute either. I mean, things could set off in a violent context because that's just what the city is. You're not walking into a secure space. But for the most part, you know, people are respectful and, and joyful and participate and love what. What they get out of it and who they meet while they're playing.
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Alison Stewart
I wanted to ask you about goat park at 99th in Amsterdam. It got its name from a guy named Earl Menegault. Tell us who Earl Manigault was and his history to New York City basketball.
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Bobbito Garcia
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he is as large of a figure as. As it gets. He was mentioned initially in the Pete Axthelm book in 1970 called the City Game where he axel followed the New York Knicks. But he Also started following all these like, legendary figures uptown in Harlem. Helicopter Herm, Earl Manigo, AKA the Goat. I was fortunate to grow up right across the street from 99th in Amsterdam. And so Earl Manigault was a mentor and an inspiration not just to me, but to everybody from our community on the Upper west side as well as Harlem. I mean, you know, cats would come downtown, women would come downtown to 99th and play. He ran a tournament there as well starting in the 70s called Walk Away from Drugs. He passed away in the late 90s. The parks and recreation department renamed the court in his honor. And I run a tournament called FC21, which is one on five and 30 international locations. Every summer, all the winners come to New York to compete for the title of the best 1 on 5 player in the world, both in men's and women's high school boys and high school girls. And I do it at the Goat. That's me paying homage to the legend because I could do it in whatever park I want. But it's. I. But it's also where I grew up. And so that park is very dear to me. And it's, it's. There's a whole chapter about the Goat. Actually there's two chapters about the goat in my book. Both me as, as a player coming up, but also about him, the person and who just, just gave so much back to all of us. And his memory lives on. It was a film about him on HBO called Rebound and, and Don Cheadle, the great actor portrayed Earl Manigote. So yeah, he, he's, he's as legendary as it gets.
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Alison Stewart
My guest is Babito Garcia, author, filmmaker, DJ and a big figure in New York City basketball. We're speaking about his new book, Babito's book of B Ball Bong Bong. It's part memoir, part history of basketball in New York. Are you like Bobbito and you grew up playing pickup ball around the city? What a great experience to play pick up hoops. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll have more with you, our callers and with Bobbito after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Babito Garcia. We're speaking about his new book Bobbito B ball Bong Bong. We are talking about pickup basketball in New York City. His part of his book is about memoir about his life's Experience with basketball, you played it your whole life, and you played it in both sort of organized ball Bobito in high school and college, and you've also played it at the court. What's the difference between the two?
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Bobbito Garcia
Huge. There's a great divide there. I mean, of course, there's plenty of similarities in that you have a ball, you have a rim, you have a backboard. But when you're playing outdoors, you don't necessarily need a backboard or a rim. Right. You could just be dribbling on the sidewalk in front of your building or in front of a bodega, looking at the reflection in the window, working on your handle, right. When you play in the park, you can walk up and there's no referees, there's no coaches. You get on a court, and now you're trying to figure out how to win the game against someone who you have no idea is. You have no scouting report, right. You would have teammates. So it's a lot of spontaneous activity, a lot of spontaneous creation. Right? And in the context where you don't have a play and you have to figure out how to score and how to win, that allows someone, you know, one to grow and develop and evolve, not just as a ball player, but as a human being. There's a. A book by Professor David Hollander at NYU called How Basketball Can Change the World. And he really talks about how the sport really allows community partnership. Like all these qualities that really would improve life. And I, I'm on the. I'm on his team for that. You know, he was able to get United nations to create World basketball day on December 21, which is the day that the game was first played back in 1891. But, yeah, I mean, outdoors is just, you know, people can play on a trash can, on a fire escape, they could play on a monkey bars. It's just, it's endless. And it's. It's not. You're not. That's why it's the number one participatory sport, because you can't stop it. You don't need a field, you don't need cleats, you don't need a bunch of equipment. You just need a ball. And sometimes you don't even need a ball.
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Alison Stewart
It was interesting hearing you talk. You described to me a creative endeavor for a person having to think about how he's going to perform in a way.
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Bobbito Garcia
Well, it's, it's, it's. It's almost in the absence of thinking, right? Because once you get into the rhythm of the game, and you, I mean, you have to think, you have to get the fundamentals. How do I bend my knees? How do I, you know, dribble? How do I pass? How do I shoot? Once you get past that stage with either a mentor or coach or a trainer or your parent or an elder, then you get to the space where you're really just flowing. And in the organized context, there are moments when that, when you are allowed to do that, but in the pickup space, that's all it is. And then you have kids who freestyle who aren't even in a contest to win or lose, but just doing tricks, ball handling, fancy. And that space is infinite. Right. I was part of a commercial in 2001 called Nike Freestyle. I'm one of the, the people who makes a cameo with NBA players and, you know, a bunch of like talented, just, you know, ball players from, from New York and beyond. And that, that, that commercial won awards in the advertising realm. And. But it still to this day is being mimicked still today, people doing freestyle on camera, on social media. You know, so it's, that's why basketball, I mean, you know, football, we call it soccer here in the United States, has a lot of the same qualities and a lot of similarities as well. You see people, you know, dribbling with their foot for 15 minutes, doing incredible things, catching it on their head and, and basketball has that same space.
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Caller
We got good calls. Andy is calling in from Manhattan. Hey Andy, thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.
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Bobbito Garcia
Hey, thank you for taking my call. Hey, I'm glad to hear Bobito wrote a memoir. I used to play with him down on 14th street at the Y on the lunchtime run. He's a great guy.
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I remember you. Hi.
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Hey, Bobito, good to hear. Hey, you mentioned you played with a bunch of cast of different kinds of people. We used to play with a lot of people down at the Hawaii that were a lot of actors and writers. It was an interesting group of people. So the artists are another group that we used to play with. And one of my memories was one time Woody Harrelson came down and played and you know, the white man can't jump. So it was a fun, fun thing for me. I was guarding him one game. But seriously, I have a question for Bobbito. You know, I'm two years older than him and he has in love basketball as well, but it doesn't age too well. Bobbito. So what's the plan for the 60s? How are you going to keep your game going? Like tennis has pickleball we need a sport that can keep us going into our 70s.
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Alison Stewart
Andy.
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Caller
Good call.
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Bobbito Garcia
Yeah. Well, Andy, you just brought up a memory that actually I mentioned the 14th Street Y in my memoir, Bobito's Book of B Ball, Bong bong. And I don't know if you remember Adam Rapp, who later became a Pulitzer Prize author, playwright, he was a regular at the 14th Street Y as well. Ramon Rodriguez, who worked at the 14th Street Y, is now the lead actor, slash executive producer slash director of the ABC hit series Will Trent. Right. And then we had old man Johnny, who was, who was literally in his late 60s playing pickup with us on a regular basis, who had an eight pack. He's, he used to get us upset because he would take his T shirt like, Johnny, please put your T shirt on. Be like, no, man, I got an eight pack in my 60s. I'm proud of it. All right, cool. Play with your T shirt off. That's the greatness of, of pickup basketball. Regarding. As I enter my 60s in 2026, I stretch, I stay hydrated, I run, I don't play basketball to get in shape, I get in shape to play basketball. And I think that's a big difference, that I've always been an advocate of taking care of yourself, wellness, meditation, you know, sleep, all those things. I mean, of course, supplements for my knees, Chondridin and what is it, I forget the name. I'm spacing on it right now. But there's vitamins you could take, the fish oil for your knees and, and all these other things that, that help support people who are aging. But the basketball is still for those as well. You know, people always like, oh, you know, how do you play on the asphalt all these decades? And look at Jack Ryan. I mean, Jack Ryan's a playground legend who's in his, what, how old is he now? He's like 63, 64. And he's still going park to park on his bicycle playing, schooling young kids, you know, and, but you know, I, I, I'm an advocate and evangelist for the sport as for all that it could present. Even if just going out there and just shooting three, three foot jump shots on the backboard, you still get a sweat, you know, you don't have to be playing five on five and all that.
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Caller
Let's talk to Michael from Manhattan. Hey, Michael, thanks for calling all of it.
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Hey, how you doing? I just, you. This conversation reminded me of one of the funniest stories of my. When I was in my 20s, I had a friend visit from San Francisco. And like most San Franciscans, he was from the Midwest, and you. Medium height, white guy. And we went out as a good New Yorker, I took him out to the Blue Note, listen some jazz, and then we're walking by the cages on West 4th, and his eyes just, like, popped up and like, he's like, what is this? And I'm like, you know, this is where, like, the best, you know, ball players in the city play. And he was in, like, a oxford shirt and khaki pants and sneakers, and he just, like, got on the court and he played to, like, two in the morning. He was like, the biggest adrenaline rush for him, and he must have played some college ball. But that was the last I saw my friend for the whole week. He just went there every day, and he just. It was. It was crazy for him. It was. It's. It's. It's an amazing energy in that cage that this guy just tapped into. And it was. It was the funniest thing.
- [26:59]
Bobbito Garcia
It's intoxicating. And I can say as a. As a player at West 4th, playing pickup, as well as the organized tournament that they've been doing there since 1977, both for men and for women, is one of the premier locations in the world, right? And, I mean, a ton of NBA players have played there. Anthony Mason, Smush Parker, but, I mean, you know, Mario Ellie, but, you know, a ton of people have just played pickup there. And it's. It's. It's theater. You can get entertained at the Blue Note. You can get entertained at the. The Manetta Lane Theater right down the block. And then you can come to West 4th, and there's people talking smack. There's people on. On a. On a fence. You know, it's. It's. It's. It's as animated as it gets. I love playing there.
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Caller
All right, we've got one more minute, but I feel it's really important to ask you this, okay? What lessons do you think you've learned that you could have only learned from being on the court?
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Bobbito Garcia
Too many. But I will say this. I was scouted to play professionally in Puerto Rico on the asphalt. It was at the Goat, AKA Rocksteady park, where I grew up. And that was the opportunity of my life because not only was I able to fulfill my dream of playing professionally overseas, but my father's dream. He was, you know, that's. That's. That's. That's our homeland. But the light bulb went in my head. I was like, wow. I worked seven, eight years towards a goal and it was presented to me by playing pickup. And I'm not the only one, right? And so the what I've learned from playing outdoors is that the universe opens up in such a beautiful way when you work hard and when you're creative and you put your time in and your effort. And I've carried that to every career shift and pivot that I've had ever.
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Caller
Since Babito's book of Bee Ball, Bong Bong. It's available now. Babito, it's nice to talk to you.
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Bobbito Garcia
Oh, thank you, Alison. This is like my third or fourth visit here, and every time it's just a thrill. I mean, I feel like I'm at the cage right now, but.
- [29:17]
Caller
Thanks, papito.
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