← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Bringing 'Nosferatu' Back to Life
00:27:44
We speak with the director and star of the 'Nosferatu' revival.
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- [00:04]
Alison Stewart
Listener supported WNYC Studios.
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Lily Rose Depp
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thanks for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here. It's holiday movie week here on ALL OF it and we are going to be talking about some of the year's most anticipated films. Here's a preview tomorrow. Tomorrow we'll speak with Adrian Brody, the star of the new film the Brutalist, along with its director, Brady Corbett. It's about a celebrated architect who tries to build a new life in America after surviving the Holocaust. On Wednesday, we'll talk about the film September 5, about the 1972 terrorist attack on Israeli athletes at the Olympics. Stars Peter Sarsgaard and Leonie Benesh will join us to discuss. And on Thursday, we'll discuss Conclave. It follows the intrigue and danger surrounding the election of a new pope. Stanley Tucci joins us as well as director Edward Ber. That is the plan. So let's kick off this movie rink right now with Nosferatu. The film Nosferatu is an examination of evil, sin, suffering and a lot of rats. Set in Germany in the 1800s, Ellen Hutter has been having horrible dreams. These nightmares are messages from a dynamic demonic creature, one that wants her and only her. Here's a clip from the film featuring Lily Rose Depp as Ellen and Nicholas Holt, who plays her husband. He's preparing to travel to Transylvania to meet a mysterious count named Orlok. Ellen is describing a dream.
- [01:50]
Ellen Hutter
Standing before me all in black was.
- [01:57]
Robert Eggers
Death.
- [02:00]
Ellen Hutter
But I was so happy, so very happy. We exchanged vows, we embraced. And when we turned around, everyone was dead. Father and everyone. The stench of their bodies was horrible and but I never mean so happy.
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Lily Rose Depp
Nosferuto was recently nominated for four Critics Choice Awards. Lily Rose Depp joins me in studio. Nice to meet you.
- [02:34]
Alison Stewart
Hi. Nice to meet you.
- [02:35]
Lily Rose Depp
And Robert Eggerts, welcome back to ALL OF it.
- [02:37]
Robert Eggers
Glad to be here.
- [02:38]
Lily Rose Depp
So when you were a teenager, the story goes that you created a stage play of Nosferatu.
- [02:44]
Robert Eggers
That is true. Yeah. My friend Ashley Kelly Tayta, who's now a theater and opera director, we co directed this high school play of Nosferatu that was black and white on stage with black and white makeup and costumes and cardboard sets. And it was very humble. And Edward Langlois, who was the artistic director of a local theater, saw that and he asked us to, if you want to do a more professional version of it at his theater. And it changed my life. It cemented the fact that I wanted to be a director. And, you know, ever since then, Nosferatu has been an important part of my identity as someone who's attempting to make creative work.
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Lily Rose Depp
Lily, what was your sort of relationship with vampires and Dracula before this film?
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Alison Stewart
It's. It's always been a kind of a myth that I've been interested in and fascinated by as kids. My brother and I used to love the classic Dracula movies, like Bela Lugosi and Christopher Lee and randomly starting with Abbott and Costello, because they have that, you know, the Meet the Monsters movies, and they had the, you know, the Meet Dracula one. And it was a favorite, a big favorite of my. My brother and I. And my brother used to dress up like little mini Dracula when we were kids, and he was like three and do kind of like very dramatic line readings of the movie. And so in a way, I kind of. I kind of grew up with him in a way, and. Yeah. And then growing up, it was always a tale that I found fascinating and very intriguing. And I was very excited when I heard that Rob was going to be telling his tale of it.
- [04:21]
Lily Rose Depp
It's what my friends and I discussed after we saw the movie. What is it about this vampire theme that people continue to want to investigate? What do you think it is?
- [04:33]
Robert Eggers
I think it's just. It's like a. It's always a combination of sex and death. You know, even. Even Twilight, that is sort of twee, is still sex and death, you know, And I think as a kid, you don't know that that's what it's about. Exactly. And those are taboo subjects, but you can kind of feel the power of that, so. Which is, you know, I'm sure myself, your brother and yourself sense that. And, you know, it's interesting, though, because the sort of most popular vampires of certainly the second half of the 20th century into the 21st century are sort of relatable outsiders, you know, and that is not what we were after in this film.
- [05:24]
Lily Rose Depp
No, no, you're not. What. When you heard that Robert was doing the. Rob, excuse me, was doing the film, what was next? You heard it was happening. Did you audition? How did it go?
- [05:35]
Alison Stewart
Yes. So I. It came to me kind of quite, Quite, quite classically. My agents, you know, told me that Rob was making this movie and that he was interested in meeting with me to talk about the role. And so we had a. I read the script. I mean, I loved it. I knew that I would love it before reading it. And it was, you know, more beautiful than I could have even imagined. There was already so much there on the page, which is not always the case, but it was, you know, written in this, like, beautiful prose. It was just, you know, kind of coming alive in my head as I was reading it. And I was, you know, over the moon to get an opportunity to talk to Rob about it. And so we had a Zoom meeting, and we talked. And then a few days later, I did a Zoom audition with Rob, and he's casting director. And. And, yeah, and then. And then Rob texted me that night and told me that I got the part. And I was. I mean, I was over the moon. I was. I was. I was so excited. And, yeah, it all felt very surreal because it happened very fast. Yeah, it was very exciting.
- [06:41]
Lily Rose Depp
What did Rob give you to watch? What kind of films?
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Alison Stewart
So Rob gave me a long. A long list of movies, which was I. Which I loved. The longer the better. You know, there were so. There were so many great references. The one that stuck with me the most was Cries and Whispers. That one was very. Was very, you know, very interesting to watch. The Devil also was one of them. I'm trying to think of the other ones.
- [07:05]
Lily Rose Depp
So what did this list have? What did you want this list to accomplish?
- [07:10]
Robert Eggers
Well, I mean, the fact is, Lily didn't really need this because her, you know, her audition was so powerful. You know, I mean, really, like myself, the casting director, and the impartial videographer who is, like, managing the zoom. Like, everyone was in tears because it was so raw. And, you know, and Lily has this incredible ability to just, like, access these deep emotions, like, with, like, immediately. And so, I don't think. And, you know, when we were talking, we were talking about Abbott and Costello and Meet Dracula. Lily also brought up Zulawski's possession, so she had my number already. But the more that you can sort of be marinated in the world while you're preparing, I think the more helpful it is. So there was sort of like, melodramas, like a Russian adaptation of Dostoevsky's Humiliated and Insulted that had sort of melodramatic performances that were somehow naturalistic and, you know, and Cries and Whispers is very detailed and small, but the depth of emotion is very strong. And the pain of Harriet Anderson and, like, dying from cancer or whatever is. There's something really evocative about it. So. Yeah. And then, like, you know, finally, Lily, you know, I don't. I don't know how much you actually needed to watch all of that.
- [08:47]
Alison Stewart
No, but it's always helpful. I mean, I feel like I've, like, as an actor, you never, like, quite. I feel like at least I never know quite if I'm, like, doing the prep right. I was like, I do an interview with Natalie Portman recently, and we were talking about this, how, like, prep is this kind of, like, random ephemeral thing where, like, you're kind of just grasping at straws. And then once you get on set and you start actually living as the character, like, you realize more what you actually need and what's actually helpful. So the more information, like, the more references, the more ideas, the better. And I'm forgetting some of the names, but there were some, like, very obscure things that you gave me to watch that I would have never found myself, which were incredibly helpful because also, you know, like, Rob, even in the list, I remember you saying, like, why you wanted me to watch certain things. And so it was helpful for me because I knew what to watch for. There were things that you had me watch that even sometimes had nothing to do with performance. And it was just, like, the general tone that was interesting. There were different aspects that were helpful. And then you gave me this incredible text called Peor, which was this story, this text about this young girl who has a kind of. Who's this, you know, very kind of pious, like, you know, religious young girl, and she has, like, a love story, sexual awakening with this demonic force, which of course, was, you know, very interesting for me to read. And that was really helpful for me as well as all of the films. But the text in particular was like, there was so much to grab onto there. So that was a big part of the prep for me.
- [10:18]
Robert Eggers
But Lily also, you know, like, on her own volition, was like, I need a dialect coach, like, asap. And she. And she worked on her British accent, like, for months ahead of time, so that by the time she arrived to Prague to start rehearsals, like, that was a non issue because she knew that the training she was going to have to do physically to do all of the quote unquote, hysterical fits and the seizures and the demonic possession that that was going to. You didn't want to be of two minds, you know.
- [10:51]
Alison Stewart
Well, you never want, like, even if I. I mean, of course, like, there was gonna be all of that, but even if there hadn't been, like, I just feel like an accent is like, you. You know, like, first of all, like, you don't want it to sound bad because otherwise it just takes you out of the story completely. And also, like, yeah, you don't want to think about it because there's already so Much to think about when you're shooting something.
- [11:10]
Lily Rose Depp
It was interesting. You said that the script, you just said was. Was beautiful. Yeah, that you saw great beauty in the script. What's an example of that beauty?
- [11:18]
Alison Stewart
Well, just Rob is a fantastic writer. The writing was so beautiful, and it was like, you know, things weren't, like, stated, you know, quite simply as, like, stage directions, like, sometimes are. They were. It was so full of life. And it was written quite poetically and things were described in, like, a very visceral way. And it, you know, and it lended itself to that, like, life that was already there. And you could feel, you know, what certain, like, you know, what the characters were feeling or like, you could even kind of feel the music in it. There was like a real, like, theatricality to it. And it's also just like it's a fairy tale. It's like a super dark fairy tale. So there's a lot of, like, you know, magic in it, I feel like from the outset.
- [12:02]
Lily Rose Depp
My guests are Robert Eggers and Lily Rose Depp. We are talking about their film Nosferatu, which opens in theaters on December 25th. Alan's character is a lot more central to this particular story than other stories. When did you know that that character was going to be so central?
- [12:18]
Robert Eggers
Well, yeah, I mean, obviously I've been obsessed with Nosferatu since I was a kid. But it's not enough to be obsessed and passionate and dorky about something. You have to have a reason to do it. And when I sat down to work on a screenplay, I figured the mournel film ends with Ellen as the heroine, which is great. But I thought if it's her story from the very beginning, the female protagonist story from the beginning, and it seemed through her eyes, probably I have the opportunity to have the film be more emotionally and psychologically complex. And in the mournout film, Ellen is described as a somnambulist. And sleepwalkers in the 19th century were thought, even by many medical professionals of the time, to be able to see into another realm, have access to another realm. And that once I started digging into that and amplifying my knowledge about how that was viewed in the 19th century, that's when things became really exciting, really exciting.
- [13:17]
Lily Rose Depp
Her sexuality is a really important part of this film. Lily.
- [13:21]
Alison Stewart
Yes.
- [13:21]
Lily Rose Depp
Why do you think it's so important?
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Alison Stewart
Because I think it's, you know, it's in. It's yet another aspect of, like, female existence and just existence in general that was heavily repressed at the time. And, you know, I think Ellen is dealing with a lot that she is suppressing. I think she's dealing with a lot that she doesn't know where to place because she's, you know, inhabiting a society that doesn't have a lot of room and that has a, like, a really clear, laid out path for women to live a certain way. And just like, you know, and if you stray from that path, it's like, very quickly looked down upon or, you know, you're kind of, like, ostracized. And I think that that's a big part of it. I think that, you know, you feel this kind of, like, nascent sexuality in her from the beginning of the movie. And I think, like, the shame of that creates loneliness, that creates that desire to call out to something, to feel, to feel, you know, companionship or kinship with something or someone. And as we go forward in the movie, I think it's, you know, she's. She's married and everything, but it's like, you know, she's still, like. She's a. She's a young girl. She's, you know, she's like, supposed to be, like, 22 or something like that. Right. And so I think she's. Although she's like, you know, living the life of an adult, like, this is still a young woman trying to, like, figure herself out and dealing with a lot of this, like, darkness and this thing that she's felt this, like, real, like, kind of extraterrestrial, like, tie to. And I think that her sexuality is a big part of that.
- [14:56]
Lily Rose Depp
Better tighten that corset. Yes, I know.
- [14:58]
Robert Eggers
Yeah. I mean, yeah, she's being called crazy. She's like. Yeah, they're literally tightening her corset and tying her to the bed. But it's, you know, it's. It's. It's. You know, Ellen's also really cool because, you know, it's a character who is, yes, a victim of 19th century society and a victim of a demonic, you know, demon lover, vampire, but also has a ton of agency and strength. And to see her battling against all this stuff is powerful. And I also. I mean, I find that she's also quite tragic because it is. I think it's beyond sexuality. It's. It's. It's like she. I, you know, she has, like, an understanding about a shadow side of the world that she doesn't have language for. And clearly, as much as the vampire is the only person who can understand this dark side of her, she's the only one for him, you know, so she has a kind of strength that is, you know, that she never got the opportunity to hone, which is sad. And then she. But she gets to, you know, ultimately save the day.
- [16:14]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. No, but it's true.
- [16:14]
Lily Rose Depp
But she's able to use that strength that she has. Yes.
- [16:17]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. But it's cool because it's like, as much as she's, like, wrestling with the society that she's a part of and that, like, doesn't quite understand her and that she's kind of at odds with, at the same time, she's also kind of, like, floating above it all in a way, because she has an understanding of something that is so much bigger than the world that she's inhabiting. So in a way, she's already on the other side, kind of.
- [16:38]
Robert Eggers
Yeah. And. Well, Sorry.
- [16:39]
Lily Rose Depp
No, go ahead.
- [16:40]
Robert Eggers
No, and then. But thankfully, Willem Dafoe plays a character who's kind of similar to Van Helsing, but his name is Von Franz, and he's an occultist, alchemist, scientist who's sort of, you know, likes modern science, but also thinks that maybe sometimes the enlightenment went a little too far. And he. Because he is an inquisitive person who wants to, like, look at everything, he's able to see what is going on with Ellen and is a great, you know, cheerleader for her.
- [17:19]
Lily Rose Depp
This role required a lot of you. It required you to go from frantic to set sexuality to being. You have to conful sometimes. You have to be very tender sometimes. When did you realize what this role was going to take of you?
- [17:35]
Alison Stewart
I think when I got to Prague. I mean, like I said, it really was all there in the script. So I knew that it was going to be demanding emotionally and physically, and I'm very much down for that. That's the kind of work that I am the most interested in. And that gets me going the most as a performer. And so I love that that was like a part of the role that I was, you know, that was like, what I was most interested in exploring. But I think when I got to Prague and we started rehearsing, that's when I got like, a real kind of like, tangible idea of what it was going to be. Because I think I had maybe, like, thought of it more improvisationally, like I thought, because, of course, like, that's just, you know, it was my first time working with Robin. And, you know, in the script, it's. There's a wildness to those moments and there's a wildness to those moments in the movies. In the movie as well. But I think when I Got there and I started working with our movement coach, who's amazing and also rehearsing with Rob and Jaron that I saw how specific the blocking was going to be. And so because of that, you need to have a preparation that is structured as well. And so I think that's when I realized, yeah, what it was going to, what it was going to be like. But I was so grateful for that structure because it's, you know, Willem was talking about it and saying like, you know, quite eloquently last night about how when they're, you know, when you have a structure, there is freedom to be found within that because there's so much that you can hold onto and then your inner life can, you know, can kind of soar.
- [19:06]
Lily Rose Depp
How did you decide what Nosferatu would look like?
- [19:09]
Robert Eggers
In the cinematic evolution from Max Shrek's fantastic ratty creature to sparkling Edward Cullen, vampires are no longer scary. And so I went back to the folklore. I like folklore. But this early vampire folklore was written by and about people who actually believed that vampires existed and were actually and were terrified of them. So there clearly had to be some good stuff in there. And these early folk vampires were not seductive, pale faced aristocrats in dinner jackets. They were like festering, bloated, maggot ridden corpses that were undead and walking around. So the obvious question is, what would a dead Transylvanian nobleman actually look like? And so you start looking at the portraits and reading about it and this elaborate Hungarian costume with a furry hat and sleeves that reach down to his ankles and shoes that are shod with horseshoes, which you don't quite like. Totally see what you hear, you know, the hairstyle, it's all there. And we have some nods to Max Shrek's iconic design. Fingernails, the shape of his skull. But yeah, it was, you know, every single thing I do because I'm not very creative.
- [20:37]
Lily Rose Depp
That's not true.
- [20:39]
Robert Eggers
Comes from research. It all comes from research because you find unexpected things when you dig deeper and don't just rely on cinematic tropes and the low hanging fruit. When you dig deeper, you find things that appear to be original but are in fact not.
- [20:59]
Lily Rose Depp
What's a piece of research that you used?
- [21:02]
Robert Eggers
Well, I mean, all that stuff about Bill, how we designed Bill Skarsgrd, the character Bill Skarsgrd, who plays the vampire, that's the design, but also just one thing of many folk vampires very often don't. Didn't drink blood. They could strangle you, they could like fornicate with you and to death. And if they did drink blood, they more commonly would drink blood from the heart, from your chest. And obviously, for a film that is a tale of obsession and love and is a love triangle, there is some, like, visual poetic motif about that, which is nice, but, you know, but it comes from old hag syndrome, from sleep paralysis when you have a waking dream and you feel the pressure on your chest. That's where, you know, that idea came from is people who were having, you know, sleep paralysis and thinking that vampires were attacking them. So not only is it, like, different, we haven't seen it. And it makes sense the story. It also, because of. It, also feels like. Of course that makes sense. You know, minus breaking the breastplate seems a little tricky.
- [22:17]
Lily Rose Depp
But, hey, I understand you were not frightened of Bill Skarsgard as Nosferatu, but a little unnerved by him. Is that true?
- [22:28]
Alison Stewart
I mean, yeah, like, I think, you know, of course, like, you're aware that you're, you know, making a movie and, you know, you see that the bells and whistles, like, around you and everything. So, like, you know, I wasn't, like, literally fearing for my life, but he was unnerved by. He was kind of a weird thing. I mean, yeah, he was super, super scary. I mean, he's also, like. He's. He's an incredibly transformative actor, and he's very committed. So, like, you know, he. He might be, like, joking around or not even that much, but he might be, you know, in between takes or, like, speaking with more of a normal voice when you're, like, trying to block the scene or whatever. But, like, for however many minutes, you're, like, in between action and cut. Like, he is real and he's there. And, you know, in a. It's a. It's a. You know, it's a gift as an actor because you're. You can only go as high as, like, your scene partner will allow you to go. And he's like, you know, he's at 100 all the time. And it's amazing because I didn't really have to pretend that much. And he was, like, really, really freaky. But, you know, only by way of him being, like, as talented as he is.
- [23:33]
Lily Rose Depp
Something that really got me during the film was the juxtaposition between how close you are and how far away you are. Right? There's, like, this great scene when you go into your bun, your hair, and then all of a sudden, it's wide. I was sort of curious about that. The close and the far.
- [23:50]
Robert Eggers
I mean, Jaren and I Just like to try to have like visual contrast in how the flow of the cinematic language moves. I mean you don't want to have like whiplash from it. But, but, but, but yeah, it's always gonna, it's, you know, if you. There, there can be power of cutting from like a close up to a close up. But a close up to a landscape is, is generally, you know, more refreshing or something.
- [24:21]
Lily Rose Depp
Was this always gonna come out at Christmas? Nosferatu, Vampires? Christmas? Yes.
- [24:26]
Robert Eggers
Well, you know, there.
- [24:29]
Lily Rose Depp
No, no, no is the answer.
- [24:31]
Robert Eggers
No, no is the answer. But it was actually what it was very like. We were almost done with the film in post production and focus feature said, how would you feel about a Christmas release? And I became very excited, very excited. Why?
- [24:46]
Lily Rose Depp
Why?
- [24:46]
Robert Eggers
I mean, I think people like most normal people think, okay, counter programming cute. But you know, I think that, you know, not here, but in a lot of European countries there's a tradition of ghost stories for Christmas. And I think that, you know, there is something nice about telling a ghost story around the fire when it's cold and cozy and you know, and yeah, so this is basically my ghost story around the fireplace at Christmas.
- [25:22]
Lily Rose Depp
Krampus. Krampus needs some. Something.
- [25:24]
Robert Eggers
Well, yeah, you know, Yeah, I mean the Christmas carols, the ghost story. Hello. You know.
- [25:30]
Lily Rose Depp
Yeah, that's true.
- [25:31]
Robert Eggers
Like a ghost story for Christmas.
- [25:34]
Lily Rose Depp
Lily, what is a part of the film I'm going to ask you to be? Well, what's a part of the film that you would like people to pay special attention to? Something you had to work hard on, Something. I'm serious. Or something that you just really are like, I'm really glad this happened. I'm glad this is on film.
- [25:51]
Alison Stewart
Oh God. I mean, I'm glad all of it happened. I really, like, I have a hard time like picking, you know, like, you know, like a moment of myself and being like, you know, please watch this.
- [26:04]
Lily Rose Depp
How about you? You pick for a Lily something that she does extraordinary.
- [26:07]
Robert Eggers
Well, I mean, obviously all of the physical work that she does is crazy. And people tend to think that we. It's CG enhanced or manipulated with, with speed ramps and stuff. But she does all of these. This stuff herself. And you know, I know I lost a lot of sleep about this scene where she has this big confrontation with her husband towards the end of the movie because around the middle of the film I knew that I would need to do a hopefully competent version of a kind of exorcism possession scene that we've seen in a lot of other movies. So that had to be, like, at least competent to get us through. And then I had to do something crazier. Lily had to do something crazier. And I was very, very afraid of how this scene would work. But she nailed it.
- [26:57]
Lily Rose Depp
Thanks.
- [26:59]
Alison Stewart
That was a toughie, but it's beautiful. I'm happy with it.
- [27:02]
Robert Eggers
You should be.
- [27:03]
Alison Stewart
Thank you.
- [27:04]
Lily Rose Depp
And no CGI rats. Those were real, weren't they?
- [27:06]
Robert Eggers
There were thousands of real rats. But they were very intelligent and well behaved. And like 200 of them, 200 of them were trained to enter on cue. But we do have CG rats that extend into the background. So when you see like lots and lots of rats out of focus, like, because, you know, it's not 1922 or 19 or the late 70s, you can't just release rats into the street. You have to, like, take good care of the rats.
- [27:38]
Lily Rose Depp
I felt I had to say that. On behalf of New Yorkers. That's the scariest thing in the film. The name of the film is Nosferatu. It is out at Christmas. My guests have been Robert Eggers and Lily Rose Depp. Thanks for coming by the studio.
- [27:49]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much.
- [27:50]
Robert Eggers
Thanks for having us.
- [27:53]
Adrian Brody
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