← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Brooke Baldwin on "Unraveling"
00:29:17
Brooke Baldwin had been at CNN anchor for more than a decade and one day she was let go.
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- [00:08]
A
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here on Today's show. Christian McBride will be here. He's going to share some tracks from his forthcoming album. It is called without further ado, Volume 1. And a film where you'll recognize the backdrop. It's a romantic dramedy filmed here, here in New York City. It's called Love Brooklyn. And we'll speak with its director, Rachel Holder and actor Nicole Beharie. And big news about our September get lit with all of it book club. We are back and we have big, big plans. Details on that coming up. That is our plan. So let's get this started with finding your new pat. Whether it's layoffs or a struggle to find meaningful work, so many Gen Xers and millennials are facing a tough reality right now. Former CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin knows that experience firsthand. After more than a decade anchoring her own daily news show, after being in millions of living rooms, after countless interviews with presidents, politicians, even astronauts, she was fired from her dream job. Instead of letting it break her, she calls that painful moment of her start the unraveling. It isn't messy and it's not necessarily a bad thing, although it can be messy and it can be hard. But in her TED Talk, she challenges us to see these life transitions, the unknowns, not as endings, but as opportunities to become something new. Welcome to the show, Brooke.
- [01:58]
B
Oh my gosh, Alison, it is so nice to be on with you. Truly, truly. I've been a fan of yours for years. How are you?
- [02:03]
A
I am doing well and I'm glad to see that you're doing well.
- [02:07]
B
Yes, I am. I am. I'm coming out on the other side. But my goodness, even as you talk about that, I can still feel it in my body, you know? Ooh, just the mess, the uncomfortableness, the fear. Yes, all of that is true.
- [02:19]
A
Let's get our listeners in on this conversation. Have you ever lost a job or had to reinvent yourself mid career? How did you get through it? Are you still trying to figure it out? What have you tried? How have you been successful? Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can call in, join Brooke and I on the air or you can reach out on social media at all of it NYC. So I saw your TED talk on LinkedIn. I was on LinkedIn. I was doing the stuff, keeping your, your, your, your, you know, your area, your, Your profile up. And I saw so many of my friends looking for jobs and. And then your TED Talk came up, and I was riveted by it.
- [03:02]
B
Oh, wow.
- [03:02]
A
And I wanted to know, first of all, why did you put out so it was so personal. Yeah, you put out so much personal information in this TED Talk to a very public forum. Why did you do that?
- [03:17]
B
Ooh. First of all, when I said, you know, giving a TED Talk, I don't know about you, but for me it was a bucket list moment. So I knew when I was asked to give this TED Talk, the only answer was yes. And then I had that initial body response of, oh, gosh, you know, I guess I could get up there and talk about, you know, the evolution and de. Evolution of cable news and, you know, I could speak as an authority on a few things. But then I knew I needed to tell the full truth. And the full truth was the story of how I really left my dream job and how, you know, ever since I was a little girl, girl growing up in Atlanta and bringing binoculars to Braves games, how I was always aware of cn, my hometown, and looking for Ted Turner at Fulton County Stadium, all the way through landing this anchor job. I mean, my goodness, Alison, what a career I had. And I needed to stand up there and take a really deep breath and tell folks, you know what, while it was a beautiful, privileged career I had, I also was sort of unceremoniously let go for really no good reason. And I think a lot of people right now, my own friends, folks who work in federal government, are all facing similar. They're just, how I put it, like drop kicked out of their hard earned careers. And I wanted to stand up there and say, essentially, this is what happened to me. You're not alone. This is how I've been getting through it. Let me walk this walk right alongside you. And in the end, I think if we can be in integrity with ourselves and in alignment, basically like having our insides match our outsides, then it's all gonna be okay. It's brutal, but it's all gonna be okay.
- [05:07]
A
Let's go back to when you were at CNN. Who was CNN's Brooke Baldwin?
- [05:13]
B
Yes.
- [05:14]
A
Who was she?
- [05:16]
B
She was a determined, go getting armor wearing, deeply committed to capital GA journalism, giving voice to the voiceless. Not often saying the word no, mostly saying, yes, yes, I will go do that. Yes, I will do this interview. You want me to ask the question this way? Okay. All right. The teleprompter goes blank. You want me to do it this way? Okay. You know, we live and we learn, and I'm a good Southern girl who was brought up to color within the lines and to be kind and have grace and be tough and fierce, but not too tough and fierce and certainly not speak up for myself the way I learned in the end, I should have. You know, I wrote this whole piece for Vanity Fair a year ago, which is where I really started, like, baby, stepping into my truth of what really happened. And I own. I own it wasn't just how I was treated and how the in the completion of my career happened. It was my own complicity in my own self silencing. And that's a huge piece of all of this. Like, I should have spoken up earlier, you know, and it took Alison, like writing my first book, which is called Huddle, which is all about the collective power of women. And I found all this free time to sit in rooms with just like extraordinary women, both, you know, folks you would know and folks you, you, you may not. But their stories were incredible. And I learned from them, almost like through osmosis, how to speak up, how to say no. Which may sound bananas for people watching since they would literally tune in and watch me speak for a living. But the dirty little secret was I didn't speak up enough for myself.
- [06:55]
A
Use the word armor. You had a certain armor around yourself. Was that physical? Was it the way you presented yourself?
- [07:04]
B
You know, that's such a good question. I realize only after the fact. It was a few things, you know, for everyone listening, if you tuned into me, listen, you got me. You got the most me. I knew to give in that moment, but I was armored up and it was tangible and intangible. What I didn't realize is, like every day that I would go into that building, whether it was Time Warner center or over at Hudson Yards, and I'd roll in with like jeans and a T shirt and sneakers. And then, you know, you get into makeup and they basically like, bless these ladies. They're artists, truly. But, you know, I refer to it as like the shellacking. And I think once I got shellacked once, I like the extensions and the lashes and then I put on the fancy jewel toned dresses and my like, you know, red soled shoes. I was like, okay, now I'm CNN's Brooke Baldwin and I'm gonna do. And I think that was part of my armor. And part of my armor was just like having this giant entity that is CNN all around me. So I think I lived in this illusion that I was safe, that I had this safety net under me. And that's how it felt until I no longer had none of those things and woke up in profound fear for quite a while of, like, oh, I'm walking this tightrope. There's no net below. I'm not shellacked. You know, like, it took me a minute to pull apart that identity and that armor and just find myself.
- [08:43]
A
We got a lot of calls coming in. Let's take a couple. Let's talk to Caroline from Montclair. Hi, Caroline, thanks for making the time to call, all of it.
- [08:53]
C
Hi, Alison. Thank you for answering my call. So during COVID I got laid off from my job. I was a technology, technology executive. And I really kind of did some soul searching of like, dude, do I want to spend the rest of my life staring at people on Zoom, sitting in my chair, or do I want to pursue my dreams? So I just did a complete pivot, and my dream was to become an interior designer. So that is what I'm doing now. I started my own business. And, you know, right after, when I got laid off all these, of course, the immediate reaction is, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. And my reaction was, don't be sorry. I didn't. I just closed a book that I didn't want to read and started a new chapter at a good, juicy new book.
- [09:39]
A
Caroline, thanks so much for calling in hearing Caroline's story. What did you hear there?
- [09:45]
B
Oh, my gosh. I mean, what I heard is this new phrase I use called a hidden gift. You know, sometimes the universe whispers, then shout. She knocks, then she slams your forehead with a brick. You know, you gotta, like, watch for the signs. And it sounds like, you know, in that. In Caroline's case, with the brick, you know, it was a blessing. It was a hidden gift. And I too, can totally relate. But it takes a minute. Like, let's not sugarcoat it takes a minute. You know, you gotta lick your wounds and feel all the feels before you can really realize. As she said, gosh, I've been reading the wrong book all along. I really wanna read this book, you know, it takes a minute, but you'll get there.
- [10:22]
A
We're talking with Brooke Baldwin. After a decade, millions of living rooms, as an anchor, she's now out of her quote unquote dream job, and she's looking for something new. We'll hear about that as a minute, listeners. We want to hear about your reinvention of yourself. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's talk to Peter, who is calling in from Bayside. Peter, you're on the air.
- [10:50]
D
Hi, thanks for taking my call. It's a pleasure to talk with you. So I'm actually on my third career. I was in the right place at the right time, but I was the wrong person for my first one where I was in operations on Wall Street. I transitioned and I ended up doing slide presentations that have a graphic design firm in like the 90s and the early 2000s and you know, did websites. But it kind of went by me. I just couldn't make it happen. And after a long transition, I had taken help. I helped my mom and my dad in their elderly years and my mother got dementia and I found a career that was allowed me to help other people. I'm what's called a daily money manager and I help people pay their bills, etc. And now I love it because I'm making money, but I'm also helping others. And I'm in the right place at the right time and I'm the right person. And this is a great time for people to enter the senior service industries no matter what they are. And the key is to hopefully to love what you do. And I'm fortunate to have found that.
- [12:03]
A
Peter, love the story. Thank you so much for sharing. Brooke, you said in your former career that you were like a yes person. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Looking back, what did that cost you to be a yes person?
- [12:21]
B
Oh my gosh. Ultimately it cost me my integrity. It cost me my integrity. Because I think we either subscribe to what I would refer to as hustle culture, right? What we think the shoulds, what we should be doing, how we should be living and working and the money we should be making versus our true essence. You know, Peter was describing, I think ultimately like helping older folks. And that sounds like that is his true nature, his passion. But he was in the right place at the right time initially. You know, I remember sitting in my fancy CNN anchor seat each and every afternoon toward the end there and I could feel like just because you're really good at the thing that you are doing doesn't necessarily mean that is in alignment with your true essence and your true nature. And it's a really funny thing. Funny, not so ha ha funny that, you know, how do you, how do you extricate yourself from a really well paying job and you know, in health insurance and sometime incredible co workers like I many, many of whom I had. How do you pull yourself out of that? When you just start hearing that whisper, you know, you start hearing that whisper of, is this truly in alignment with who I am deep, deep down inside? Do I need to actually clean my mirror, polish my. My internal mirror, and maybe find what is best for me? I think that's so much a part of it is you can be good at it, but it may not be the thing you really, really want to be doing.
- [14:04]
A
Did you have a turning point? Was there a story or a guest you had that made you just wake up and say, wait a minute, I need to make a change?
- [14:13]
B
It was 2015, and that there was a man who came down the escalator in Trump Tower. And then that to me was like before that and after that. And that became the delineation point for me of how when Donald Trump declared he wanted to run for president, that first go round, I just felt like the way we covered news, at least from a cable news sense, funded, fundamentally changed. And that was my. And I. And I hung in for, you know, a number of years after that. But I never quite felt, you know, needing to interrupt guests, being encouraged to have fights on the air, not really being able to sit in the deep end and listen. That's not currency. At least that wasn't when I was on the air. And that's just not who I am. But I played one on TV really well. I played really well for a while until I just. I was just not in alignment with my true self. And God bless cnn. I can now say this for, you know, for telling me to go away. I mean, at the time, it was little t traumatizing, but now I see that just. It wasn't for me anymore. It wasn't for me.
- [15:23]
A
Let's take some more calls. Sienna or like, Senna, I believe she's in Manhattan. Hi, thanks for calling, all of it.
- [15:31]
E
Hi, this is Sena. I was laid off earlier this year from a DEI educational equity focused nonprofit. And similar to the previous caller, it was a blessing in disguise. I'm 26, I'm pretty early on in my career, but it basically set me free from a job that I had felt so, like, beaten down by and so taken advantage of for so long, especially as a young woman of color working in the equity space. And coincidentally, I had started job searching a few months earlier, very slowly. But a couple weeks after getting laid off, I got an offer for the job that I'm in now, which is at a Parks nonprofit. I get to work in the Parks with people who are also obsessed with trees and parks and nature and everything. So it's really turned out super well for me. And I'm still in the nonprofit space, still doing things that I care about. But this topic is way more in alignment than what I was working on previously.
- [16:30]
A
Congrats to you. Let's talk to Ezra. This is a great story. He's calling in from Westchester. Okay, Ezra, what were you trained as?
- [16:41]
F
I was trained as a neurosurgeon and that's what I've been doing for 47 years.
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B
Wow.
- [16:52]
F
And I'm blessed to be able to have done that. And it's been amazing career and it's been fabulous. But you know, as a neurosurgeon, you use your brain a lot and your, your, your, your skills, your dexterity, and you don't get to use your emotions very much and you don't get to use your creative side much at all, really. You could sort of argue that to some extent and. But I won't get into that. But, but truly I realized that I needed to be able to express my creative side. And I had really come to realize in my 40s I'd suppressed my love of acting, which is a whole other story we'll get into right now. But I then started taking acting classes and then started doing some theater. And I had a fabulous director in a play I did, and she said that she was a very well known director and she said, you can do this professionally and I will help you and I will introduce you to everyone you need to know. But you have to agree to one thing. You have to do it full time. At that time, I was 15 years into my career with two kids and married, and I just couldn't give up what I was doing as a neurosurgeon to do full time acting. So I put it aside and now as I'm beginning to edge out of my neurosurgical career, I'm really looking seriously into retiring from that. I started to get back into acting. So I took classes with Josh Peiss, who's wonderful, and Jeffrey Tambor. And then I realized it was time to get out on my own. So I put myself out on backstage and other sites that, you know, where they look for actors, and I started to get a lot of options. And I've done now nine short films, five feature films. A film that I co star in was in the Cannes Acid Festival, and it was going to be in the New York Film Festival.
- [19:03]
A
Excellent.
- [19:04]
F
And it's been extraordinary.
- [19:07]
A
We love it. Thank you so much for calling in. I love that story.
- [19:11]
B
Oh, my gosh, that is amazing. I mean, first of all, bless 47 years as a neurosurgeon. You know, it's like we, I can't imagine anyone, you know, and how incredible to be doing that profession. And also we have these tugs on our, on our heart and our soul of. But I'm also interested in this. And I'm also interested in this. And I love how, you know, he had that tug early on, wasn't ready to give up neurosurgery full time, and now 47 years later is, you know, I mean, like, should we get his autograph? It sounds like, it sounds like he's, you know, blowing up, which is so, so incredible. And I think just for people listening, if you are one of those people still in the thing in the job where you're having those tugs, you're not quite sure if you're in full alignment, but you're paying the bills, you're keeping the lights on. Just pay attention, pay attention, Write it down, journal, meditate on it. If that's, if that's your thing. You know, there's, it's so important to have a sense of self belief because once you make that le into, we'll call it your soul work, you know, a lot of people are gonna say, well, what do you think you're doing? You're a neurosurgeon trying to be on stage. You know, you have to truly believe in yourself and then the path will be carved out ahead of you.
- [20:28]
A
I really believe that listeners, have you had to reinvent yourself after losing a job or going through a major life change? How did it turn out? Our Phone lines are open. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll have more of your calls and we'll have more with Brook after a quick break. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Brooke Baldwin. After more than a decade of diving into your living rooms as a host, as an anchor on cnn, she lost her job, but now she's looking at the possibility of becoming someone new. It is her new sort of mantra. You've talked about it as Brooke. An unraveling is what happened to you. What happens when one unravels?
- [21:27]
B
Gosh. Well, I think initially when people hear the word unraveling, they think, oh, you know, it's something, it's something negative or bad. Right. Don't let the un fool you. I think to unravel is. Is to loosen, to unknot, to free up. It's to become anything, to become whatever you want to be. And I really believe that we are all at some stage of unraveling in our lives. We either are young and we have yet to unravel, or we are currently on that journey of unraveling, or we have already unraveled, and maybe we're reraveling anew. I was just sitting with some girlfriends last night. All of us are deep in our unraveling journeys at the moment, you know, and I was saying to them, I really believe that we're all. We're born with all the tools. We're born, you know, with these dreams. Maybe sometimes dreams deferred. And then life happens and the hustle happens and culture happens and the shoulds happen, and we go off on our various directions. And then at some point, we have this kind of frying pan to the forehead moment, whether it is forced upon you, a divorce, an ending of a career, a health scare, and it makes you stop. And, you know, I'm from the south, so we would say, like, have a come, come to Jesus moment, you know, where. What is it that my truest sense really feels called to do? And that, to me, is a hidden gift. And it doesn't always feel that way at the time. But if we can just follow, follow that true north, I really believe that leads to, like, full truth, full integrity, full happiness.
- [22:59]
A
How long did it take you to go from being CNN's Brooke Baldwin to just Brooke Baldwin?
- [23:04]
B
Ooh, girl, I'm still in it. I mean, it's been four years since I signed off of my show on cnn, and I think it took me a solid year to pull those letters out of my heart and mind. And, you know, I actually ran into Maria Shriver recently, and she just, you know, when she speaks, I listen, and she just gave me sort of unsolicited advice, just saying, brooke, you will always be. And this is for anyone in whatever profession you've been doing something. You know, she's like, you will always be a journalist. You're not a journalist because of the three letters. You're a journalist because you're Brooke Baldwin. And I really appreciated that. And then beyond that, it's like, life is whatever you want to make it. So it's all about, like, bringing all of that into who you are and then following your nose on what is your truest, truest nature, truest self.
- [23:57]
A
How long did it take you to get rid of the anchor clothes. Took me a while to get rid.
- [24:02]
B
Of my anchor cloth. Such a good question. I mean, for people listening, you know, I had like closets full of these fancy, beautiful, you know, and I've held onto a couple pieces that just meant so much to me and they're just collecting dust in my closet. But I'll tell ya, I grabbed a stylist friend and between the two of us, we sold a bunch of them. I gave most of the money to. I think it was like Brandi Carlisle's nonprofit that just felt right, you know. And I think a lot of people, I love the idea of gifting these beautiful pieces to people to go on their own career journeys. But hell yeah, like I'm a jeans and a, and a sneakers girl. And it has been so interesting finding my own style now as a professional. And it's not that I wasn't those clothes, but that was part of my armor for sure. I mean I, I see you nodding like yes, you can relate.
- [25:02]
A
Yes, it was hard. Got rid of all the blazers. Yeah, all the blazers, all gone.
- [25:07]
B
Never wanna see a paper again.
- [25:10]
A
This text says I was editor of my college paper and planned on a career in journalism. Instead entered publishing and PR and found it completely unfulfilling. I flipped the switch and recently early retired after a 25 year career as a New York City public middle school teacher. Exhausting, challenging and totally fulfilling, that is. From Ellen and Jackson Heights, let's talk to Steve, who's calling in. Hi Steve, thanks for calling all of it.
- [25:38]
G
Hi, Alison. Hi, Brooke. Brooke, I used to work with you at CNN in the New York bureau years ago. I was the New York correspondent for CNN radio and you were one of the kindest. How are you? You were one of the nicest, kindest people to work with. With in the New York bureau. And I'm so happy to hear your voice again. You know, you're both talking about reinventing yourselves. Alison, you and I go way back. I was at WDRE years ago. I started off as a DJ before I got into journalism. So it's, I really like this topic a lot because during the pandemic, the unit I was working for in journalism was shut down for financial reasons. And I sort of, of spend a couple of years trying to figure out, well, what am I going to do next? Who am I, what do I do? Do I still want to do journalism? And recently I seized the opportunity to go back to school and I'm one of the oldest students in the CUNY Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism. And I'm getting my master's degree because I never got my master's. And after 30 years of doing journalism the same way, I wanted to figure out how to do it in new ways. What. You know, I mean, like, you get into a rut doing it on that hamster wheel day after day after day, and suddenly you realize journalism is doing it in totally new ways, and you haven't learned those new ways. So that's what I'm trying to do right now. Figure out what it is I do, what makes me happy. And instead of, like, trying to fit myself into these job roles, these descriptions, I'm learning that what I need to do is figure out what value I bring to a new institution when I'm starting to look for a job, you know, and that. And that's what's going to make me happy.
- [27:17]
B
Happy.
- [27:18]
G
It's not trying to fit into somebody else's, you know, idea of what you are. Right.
- [27:24]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [27:25]
A
It's really important. And I do want to say this, that, you know, for some people, they don't have the finances to be able to do this. That's a very important thing to bring up at this point.
- [27:36]
B
About to say. Yes, yes. I mean, it's, it's. It's, you know, on the one hand, inspiring to listen to his talk. On the other, it's. It's kind of cute, you know, for people who, you know, you gotta keep the lights on. A lot of people listening are leaders in the family and the community at work. They may be not as happy, not as fulfilled, but they may feel stuck, like there is no other option. I just wanna say, like, oof, I see you. I see you. And it's not like this cute kumbaya moment where you can just say, where does my soul feel called? And I'm just gonna leave this job. And I get that. And I think it's key to make sure, as you are keeping the lights on and being responsible in that job that may not be that perfect fit for you, that you are still, you know, doing other things on the side to keep your soul satisfied. You know, whether it's a hobby or how you spend time with your kids, what books you're reading, that may have absolutely nothing to do with the thing that you do when you clock in day in, day out, but it's. But it scratches something within you that feels incredibly fulfilling. You know, that would just be my piece of advice is to make sure. And you never know. I mean, I really believe certain books are placed in front of us or suggested for us for reasons that are outside of our world of comprehension. And those are just sort of like breadcrumbs for you in the path. Just pay attention. You never know.
- [29:06]
A
My guest has been Brooke Baldwin. You should watch her TED Talk. Brooke, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
- [29:14]
B
So fun. Thank you. Alison thank you everyone for calling in. Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.