Podcast Summary: Capote's Swans, and How He Betrayed Them (Women Behaving Badly)

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Laurence Leamer (Author of Capote's Women)
Date: July 29, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode of All Of It dives into the glittering, ruthless world of Truman Capote and his “Swans”—a coterie of Manhattan’s elite women whom he befriended and ultimately betrayed. Alison Stewart interviews Laurence Leamer, author of Capote's Women, exploring both the high society of postwar New York and the characteristics that led Capote to write (and weaponize) a never-completed novel, Answered Prayers. Their discussion touches on class, gender, gossip, and the destructive power of storytelling—as well as the FX adaptation Feud: Capote vs. The Swans.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Capote’s Lasting Infamy: The Betrayal at the Heart of Answered Prayers

• Opening Context: Capote, famous for In Cold Blood and Breakfast at Tiffany’s, desired most to be remembered for Answered Prayers, his unfinished exposé of the very socialites who gave him entrée to their world.

  “The novel was titled Answered Prayers. And on the subjects that were thinly veiled portrayals of the Manhattan high society women, Truman called his Swans.” (00:55)

• Betrayal Unveiled: The Esquire excerpt in 1975 publicly aired the Swans’ “dirty laundry,” shocking Capote's closest friends and securing his exile from high society.

2. Researching the World of Capote and the Swans

• Research Challenges: Leamer describes writing during the pandemic without access to key archives or travel, relying on books and online resources.

  “I wrote it basically based on research I could get, books I could get, and Internet research. That was it. That's the dirty truth.” —Laurence Leamer (02:48)

• Fact versus Gossip:

  “I want two sources. I want to be sure something's exaggerated, I'm not going to use it.” —Leamer (03:29)

3. Who Were the “Swans”?

• Definition:

  “A swan is not—look, she's beautiful. Of course she's beautiful. She's very rich. She's elegant…But she has her own sense of taste.…And she's witty and irresistible.” —Leamer (03:51)

• Capote’s Favorite: Undoubtedly, Babe Paley was his confidante and primary muse.

  “He just loved her…she told him everything.” —Leamer (04:22)

4. Capote as Ultimate Outsider and Insider

• Origins: Capote hailed from Alabama and New Orleans—far from high society—armed only with a high school education.

• Social Maneuverings: His open queerness and wit made him a unique fixture among the elite, but he always remained on the periphery.

  “He was a gay man in a time when you could be arrested for being gay. And he was openly gay. And he just had this charm and this ability to entertain people.…But he knew if he wasn't entertaining, if he didn't amuse these people, he would be gone.” —Leamer (05:27)

• Never Truly One of Them:

  “…Atlanta takes three generations to become a real gentleman or a lady.…It wasn't integral to him, but he was a writer and writers get their best revenge.” —Leamer (06:08)

5. The Swans’ World: Wealth, Image, and the Burden of Perfection

• Elite Attitudes:

  “CZ Guest…really believe[d] that their wealth was the result of God's will…They were better than poor people.” —Stewart/Leamer (06:46)

• Women as Ornaments:

  “To show that their husband…had something valuable. It was like a painting they could have put on the wall.” —Leamer (08:56)

• Artificial Lives: Many hid their pain—Babe Paley, for instance, wore false teeth due to an accident and maintained the illusion of perfection for her husband, living in separate bedrooms. (08:27)

6. Capote and the Meaning of Friendship

• Were the Swans His Friends?

  “Yes…in the way that gay men often befriend sort of socially elite women.…Slim Keith knew not to tell him certain things…But Babe totally trusted him.” —Leamer (07:56)

• Capote’s Notion of Loyalty:

  “I think he did (consider himself a good friend) until he betrayed them and he didn't really realize what he had done. He'd say these terrible stories…and think that they would just forgive him and go on, but that's not the way the world works.” —Leamer (09:16)

• Writers as Dangerous Confidants:

  “You can never trust a writer.…Because whatever you're saying, they're listening to it and they're going to use it.” —Leamer (09:41)

7. Husbands, Affairs, and Social Dynamics

• Male Attitudes Toward Capote:

  “It was great. He was gay. They didn't have to worry about him sleeping with their wives. A perfect, perfect person to have around your wife.” —Leamer (10:06)

• Cultural Double Standards:

  “Was it accepted for women to have affairs as it was for their husbands?” “Not of that era. No way.” —Leamer (13:01)

• Divorce for the Elite: Seen as an option, rather than scandal, compared to small-town America.

  “A divorced woman was a scarlet woman. You didn’t want her in your house. …These elite women had…it’s a totally different world.” —Leamer (13:55)

8. The Fallout and Capote’s Downward Spiral

The Black and White Ball: Peak Fame

• Celebrity Central:

  “The most fabulous party of the era, where he invited all these celebrated people from all different fields of life, and he was the center of it.” —Leamer (17:35)

The Social Ousting and Creativity Paralysis

• Exile’s Consequence:

  “Everybody started to turn on him.…That’s the way America works, right? You're here, you're a big deal, and suddenly, for some reason, everybody turns on you.” —Leamer (19:00)

• Downward Spiral:

  “That was the crucial thing. He began to drink and take drugs and totally dissipated himself.” —Leamer (20:26) “He just couldn't write anymore. Totally blocked for all kinds of reasons. Devastating thing to happen…” —Leamer (20:35)

9. The Swans in Context: Illusions and Realities

• “Gilded Cages”: Even immense wealth was not a guarantee of happiness.

  “This society works by creating this illusion of this place.…Well, guess what? That place doesn't exist.” —Leamer (11:40)

• Surface Friendships and True Isolation:

  “Truman created the illusion with each one that he was their closest friend.…With these women, they…enjoyed each other's company, but it wasn’t with that degree of intimacy.” —Leamer (12:29)

10. The Legacy: The Book, the Series, and Capote’s Place in History

• Capote’s Literary Aspiration:

  “He wanted to be like Edith Wharton…It was going to be a masterpiece.…He could have done it.” —Leamer (18:17)

• The FX Series:

  “They took a lot of big chances in this.…there were other things… I disagreed with, but I admired that they took these…artistically daring things.” —Leamer (21:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Capote’s Research and Ethics:

  “You can never trust a writer.…because whatever you're saying, they're listening to it and they're going to use it.” —Laurence Leamer (09:41)

• On Wealth and Happiness:

  “One of the great pleasures in life is learning that someone who's richer and better looking than you are is unhappy. So that's one of the pleasures of reading this book…” —Leamer (11:40)

• On the Cost of Betrayal:

  “He just couldn't write anymore. Totally blocked for all kinds of reasons. Devastating thing to happen to a relatively young writer.” —Leamer (20:35)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction & Capote's ambition/Swans' betrayal | 00:46–02:37 | | Researching during pandemic limitations | 02:38–03:23 | | Defining a Swan; Capote’s favorites | 03:45–04:52 | | Capote’s background & outsider status | 04:52–06:34 | | Wealth, elitism, and women’s roles | 06:34–09:06 | | Capote’s approach to friendship and gossip | 09:06–10:06 | | Husbands' perspectives; acceptance of Capote | 10:06–11:09 | | The unhappiness beneath the surface | 11:09–12:14 | | Friendships among Swans | 12:14–12:48 | | Affair/double standards; attitudes toward divorce | 12:48–14:54 | | Capote’s focus on betrayal of Babe Paley | 14:54–15:37 | | Capote’s gossip, reputation, and downfall | 15:37–16:43 | | Impact of In Cold Blood; the Black and White Ball | 16:43–18:03 | | Literary ambition & the fallout from the Esquire excerpt | 18:03–19:12 | | Changing status of the Swans and end of an era | 19:12–20:19 | | Capote’s decline after rejection | 20:19–20:35 | | Thoughts on the FX series adaptation | 21:03–21:45 |

Episode Wrap-Up

This episode reveals not just a tale of high society betrayal, but a meditation on the illusion of social perfection and the cost of seeking artistic immortality through the misfortune of friends. Laurence Leamer’s portrait of Capote and the Swans is intimate, nuanced, and ultimately tragic—serving as both cultural analysis and cautionary tale.

For further reference, check out Laurence Leamer’s Capote’s Women and the FX series Feud: Capote vs. The Swans.