Chase Infiniti on Playing Agnes in "The Testaments"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Chase Infiniti on Playing Agnes in "The Testaments"

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Episode Date: April 6, 2026
Guests: Chase Infiniti (actor, plays Agnes), Bruce Miller (showrunner)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into Hulu’s new adaptation of Margaret Atwood's “The Testaments,” focusing on its cultural context, character development, and the unique challenges and rewards for young lead Chase Infiniti, with showrunner Bruce Miller offering crucial insights into adaptation and casting.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Hulu’s series adaptation of Margaret Atwood’s The Testaments, the sequel to The Handmaid's Tale. Host Alison Stewart welcomes Chase Infiniti, who stars as Agnes, and showrunner Bruce Miller, exploring everything from casting and costume design to the show's treatment of youth, rage, and femininity in the dystopian world of Gilead.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Adapting The Testaments: From Book to Screen

• Bruce Miller was involved from the genesis of the sequel:

  • Margaret Atwood began discussing the novel’s development with Miller as early as 2017, involving him as a creative peer ([03:02]).
  • He had “kind of a vision of how it’s being built. And so that made it a lot easier to kind of decide that I wanted to be part of it because I was part of it from the beginning.” ([03:18])

• Casting Agnes/Chase Infiniti’s Journey:

  • Chase learned about the adaptation in late 2024, auditioning under a pseudonym for Agnes ([03:51]).
  • She booked the role in early 2025 and quickly headed to Toronto for costume fittings ([04:20]).

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Costumes as Character (05:33–06:25)

• On Costume Significance:
  • Chase Infiniti: “Even though the costumes are made to fit me, it’s still very restrictive. And I think that… at baseline really helped me figure out how I wanted to move in the world and how Agnes would move” ([04:51]).
  • Bruce Miller: Costumes are “built into the idea” of restriction—the very color-coded environment immerses actors instantly in Gilead ([05:38], [05:49]).

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Gilead’s World Four Years Later (06:25–07:23)

• Gilead suffered a blow at the end of Handmaid’s Tale but is “punching back…they’re hurting, although they’re trying everything they can to make the world inside look unbruised. So as much as possible, it’s life during wartime” ([06:36]).
• The most dangerous version of Gilead is when “they're weakened and on their back legs… especially what they'll do to this next generation of women.”

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Portraying Agnes: The Princess of Gilead (07:23–08:02)

• Chase Infiniti: At the start, “she is like the princess of Gilead. She has her whole life kind of figured out for her. And she’s comfortable with where she is in the world... love in her life. But yeah, I would say that she’s totally like the princess of Gilead when you first meet her.”

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Girlhood vs. Womanhood in Gilead (08:02–09:35, 16:43–18:10)

• The show introduces a perspective shift: instead of adult women, focus is on teenage girls and their universal experiences—friendship, crushes, puberty, bullying ([08:11]).
• Bruce Miller: “...the force of kind of friendship and, you know, adolescence or puberty… those are much, much, much stronger than anything that Gilead can do... you're really looking at an irresistible force hitting an immovable object, and Gilead is the immovable object. But teenage girls are definitely an irresistible force.” ([09:36])
• On Gilead trying to “infantilize all women” but “the girls of Gilead stop becoming little girls the second they stop becoming pinks...once you become a plum...you’re forced even faster into young adulthood.” ([17:13], [17:34])

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Challenges & Opportunities for Lead Actor (10:39–15:54)

• Chase Infinity: Notable pressure—“I knew how loved Hannah is and still is… I really wanted to make sure that I kept [Agnes’s] honesty and lead with her love” ([10:39]).
• Bruce on casting: “...her audition was very fully baked as a person…She felt like she owned the character, which is very hard in a character that's been played by seven other actresses over the time period.” ([11:24])
• On the difference between series and film: “With TV you need stamina...with film...we could spend days on a scene. Whereas in TV, you move at a much quicker pace...different muscles that I’m using in my mind and in my body.” ([13:33])
• On being ‘number one on the call sheet’: “...be a voice of advocacy for everybody as much as I can...instill the confidence in my fellow actors and the people around me...” ([14:54])

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The Young Cast Dynamic & Chemistry (19:42–21:32)

• The relationship between Daisy and Agnes is central to the story ([19:42]).
• Chemistry among young actors is crucial, and harmony is everything on a TV set. “If you have one person who’s kind of sour...everybody else does [badly], because that person is spoiling for a fight. So TV is a lot about harmony...” ([20:00])
• Casting is selective and reference checks—including praise from actors who previously worked with Chase, reinforcing her leadership qualities.

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Rage and Rebellion: Emotional Outlets in Gilead (21:38–22:54)

• Girls are not allowed to show emotions—except during officially sanctioned moments of violence: “This is the one time that they can let it all out and not be...punished for it...that’s like...the first time that you see how, I guess how strong the rage is inside them, whether or not they know it” ([22:01]).

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Adapting Multiple Perspectives (22:54–24:08)

• Bruce Miller: The three perspectives (Agnes, Daisy, Aunt Lydia) allow viewers to “open up your eyes and open up your show to more parts of Gilead...you really hear three different voices of three different women, at different ages and with different perspectives.” ([23:07])

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Race and Representation for Agnes (24:08–25:42)

• Although Agnes has Black heritage, race is not foregrounded in her experience because of her privilege and her parents’ status in Gilead ([24:23]).
• At the same time, she has Black companions (Martha Zilla, classmates), but Gilead’s racial politics are “kind of crazy to think about,” since Agnes “is not a lot of the things that [Gilead] would like necessarily" ([25:42]).

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Dialogue & Real World References (25:42–27:31)

• Real-world references seep into Gilead through parents (e.g., “weirdo" or references to Tinder), even if the girls are isolated ([26:01]).
• Dialogue is “very fussy”—written carefully to reflect Gilead’s constraints and the vocabulary that might remain in such a controlled society ([26:01], [27:02]).

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Relevance in Contemporary America (27:31–29:04)

• Atwood wrote Handmaid’s Tale with a prescience that always feels current: “Every time I read it, it seemed like it was written for that moment” ([28:01]).
• Showrunner’s focus: “...I try to adapt the book...If the book speaks to lots of moments, I’m sure it will continue to speak to lots of moments.” Attempts to write for the moment are limited by TV’s slow production timeline ([27:47]).

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Personal Touches – Musical Theater and Curly Hair Care (29:13–32:57)

• Chase’s Broadway dream roles: “Natasha...in the Great Comet of 1812...Pippin...whether or not it’s a named character or I just want to be in the ensemble...I just want to be in the show.” ([29:24])
• Hair care behind the scenes: Chase twists her own hair every Sunday for set continuity: “I would give myself three hours to wash and twist my hair and set it for the week.” Hair styling was a combo of personal ritual and professional support ([30:57], [31:57]).
• Bruce Miller: The industry “handles black girl hair very poorly, and the fact that she had to do her hair on every—every Sunday is not fair” ([32:00]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On adolescence as rebellion:
  Bruce Miller: “There’s no totalitarian state in the world that didn’t have rebellious teenagers. Even in North Korea, they have rebellious teenagers...an irresistible force hitting an immovable object, and Gilead is the immovable object. But, you know, teenage girls are definitely an irresistible force.” ([09:36])

• On being a leader:
  Chase Infiniti: “I really wanted to be a voice of advocacy for people as much as I could.” ([14:54])

• On the power and challenge of rage:
  Chase Infiniti: “The first time that you see how...strong the rage is inside of them, whether or not they know it.” ([22:54])

• On adapting for today’s world:
  Bruce Miller: “It isn’t written...for the current moment. I think [Atwood] has a worldview that’s much broader than that.” ([28:02])

• On costume as performance:
  Chase Infiniti: “Even though the costumes are made to fit me, it’s still very restrictive. That...helped me figure out how I wanted to move in the world, and how Agnes would move.” ([04:51])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:02 — Genesis of the adaptation, Bruce’s collaboration with Atwood
• 03:51 — Chase’s audition, secrecy, and casting experience
• 04:32 — Costume design and significance
• 06:36 — Gilead’s state after the events of Handmaid’s Tale
• 07:30 — Who is Agnes when we first meet her?
• 08:11 — Notions of girlhood vs womanhood in Gilead
• 10:39 — Challenges of playing Agnes
• 13:33 — Difference between film and television acting
• 14:54 — Leadership and advocacy as a young lead
• 17:13 — How/when Gilead girls “grow up”
• 18:57 — Scene/clip from the show: Daisy and Agnes at school
• 21:38 — The role of rage, sanctioned violence as outlet
• 23:07 — Multi-perspective narrative structure
• 24:23 — Race and Agnes’s identity in Gilead
• 26:01 — Adapting dialogue and real-world references
• 27:47 — Show’s relevance to current American politics
• 29:24 — Chase’s Broadway dream roles
• 30:57 — Hair care, self-care, and on-set rituals

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Tone & Style

The episode balances thoughtful analysis, personal anecdotes, and cultural commentary with moments of humor and warmth, especially in exchanges about Broadway dreams and hair care rituals. The focus is always on the lived experience of the characters and cast, highlighting both the universality and specificity of Gilead’s world.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In:

This episode offers rich insights into The Testaments—not just as a television event but as a lens on coming-of-age, resistance, and representation in contemporary storytelling. Fans of Atwood and newcomers alike will find new reasons to care about Agnes and the world she inhabits, through the eyes of dedicated talent both onscreen and behind the scenes.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I want to preview what's happening on the show tomorrow. In a word, books. It's book day. Tuesdays tend to be a day in which a lot of new books get released and tomorrow is an especially bounteous day. So you want to take advantage of that by having three authors come in to talk about their latest releases, PA Patrick Radden, Keefe, Emma Straub, and Cynthia D' Pre Sweeney, plus all that. Producer Jordan Loff will be here to preview the new books being released this spring. And we want to hear from you about what you're looking forward to reading. That's all coming up tomorrow. Now let's get this hour started with a series based on a book, the Testaments. It has been nearly a decade since the series adaptation of Margaret Atwood's novel the Handmaid's Tale. The show ran for six seasons and ended last year, but the story continues. The Testaments is a sequel about the dystopian patriarchal state of Gilead. Starring my next guest, Chase Infinity, it follows a group of teenagers at a girls school in Gilead's representative authority and state authoritarian state. The girls educations consists of classes in etiquette, but not in science or math, just the subject that will make them better and dutiful wives. The school is infiltrated by a girl working for the Resistance. In the lead role is Chase Infinity as Agnes, a girl from an upper class family raised by a commander and a strict stepmother. Agnes is mindful of Gilead. But as the series develops, so do her feelings. And like most teenage girls, she has a lot of feelings. Both the Handmaid's Tale and Testaments were adapted by my other guest, Bruce Miller. The first three episodes of the Testaments arrive on Hulu this Wednesday. Chase, welcome to you.

[Chase Infinity]

Hi, thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

And also, Bruce, welcome to you as well.

[Bruce Miller]

Good morning.

[Alison Stewart]

So when did you know you wanted to adapt the follow up to the Handmaid's Tale for tv? When did it come into your world?

[Bruce Miller]

Well, Margaret started talking to us about it kind of in 2017. I mean, Handmaid's Tale has been on, had been on the air for a very short time, and she was already thinking about writing a sequel. So really, it came into my life very early, before she had even started writing. And she very kindly treats me like a fellow writer. So she talked to me about it as it was kind of coming together. So I got kind of not just a preview, but kind of a vision of how it's being built. And so that made it a lot easier to kind of decide that I wanted to be part of it because I was part of it from the beginning. I mean, she was building it in front of me, so that made it a lot easier to kind of see how it was built and how interesting it would be.

[Alison Stewart]

When did this adaptation get on your radar, Chase?

[Chase Infinity]

I feel like it got on my radar at the end of 2024, and I think that was when I sent in my first audition tape. And it was kind of like hidden under wraps. Like, I remember Agnes's name was Andrea, and I was like, okay, cool. Let's see what this is about. Read the first script. I was hooked immediately. And then luckily enough, Bruce and the team liked me enough to have me come in for a callback. This is also so weird, like, not being able to see Bruce.

[Alison Stewart]

I know. This is curse.

[Chase Infinity]

Yeah, I went in for a callback and then I think at the top of 2025, I found that I booked the role, and then I was in Toronto, like, less than a month later for fittings and whatnot, before we started shooting.

[Alison Stewart]

I have to ask you about fittings. The clothing in this show is. It really signifies a lot to us, the viewer. What does it signify to you? You're dressed in these sort of gorgeous purples, but they're sort of like a malevolent student. I don't know how to fit any other way.

[Chase Infinity]

It was sick because I remember when we first got there and we're doing our fittings for our costumes, and you kind of see how they're built from. From the ground up. It really informs the way also that you move in the world. And I remember, like, the first time putting on one of the costumes that they made. It was one of the dresses, and I was like, wow, it's made to fit me, but it's still very restrictive. And I think that, like, that at baseline really helped me kind of figure out how I wanted to move in the world and how Agnes would move and the restrictedness of it and. Yeah, so the costumes were so beautiful, and I. I was so excited to put them on every single day. But you definitely are, like, launched into Gilead pretty quickly in the morning.

[Alison Stewart]

Bruce, you sort of laughed when I mentioned the costumes. Why did you laugh?

[Bruce Miller]

Just because they are restrictive and, you know, it's built into the idea. But I think you forget that clothing can be so restrictive because we don't wear uniforms around generally. And I don't know if Chase wore a uniform to school, but it really is, you know, once. And also I think once you look around as a. As a creator or when the actors look around and there's 60 other people in plum and pink, that really drops you into the world in a way. It's not just from the inside out. You're looking around and everywhere you look is Gilead.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. You wore a uniform in school?

[Chase Infinity]

I did. I did up until. I think I was like 12 or 13 maybe. But I had the uniform, the polo, the khakis, like, same thing every day. And I was like, what can I wear to make this different? I mean, granted, you can't do that in Gilead, but try. Try.

[Alison Stewart]

We didn't go over that well. Bruce, the events take place four years after the end of the Handmaid's Tale. What's happened in Gilead and the rest of the world in between the two series?

[Bruce Miller]

Well, I think Gilead has been punched. And like a lot of people who get punched, they're very angry and punching back. So I think that what happened at the end of the Handmaid's Tale really brought Gilead down a notch. And they're hurting, although they're trying everything they can to make the world inside look unbruised. So as much as possible, it's life during wartime. But the women, the young women on our show don't see that and don't feel that. So I think where we are is that Gilead is desperately trying to keep Things normal. And the rest of the world is starting to encroach and Gilead is starting to weaken. But there's nothing more dangerous, I think, than Gilead kind of weakened and on their back legs. I think it's very scary, especially what they'll do to this next generation of women.

[Alison Stewart]

But also put your claws out or in your back foot. What is Agnes like when we meet her?

[Chase Infinity]

When you meet Agnes, I will say my best descriptor for her is she is like the princess of Gilead. She has her whole life kind of figured out for her. And she's comfortable with where she is in the world. She understands the ins and outs of Gilead, the things that she can do that won't get her in trouble. But she can still, like maintain her personality with her friends. So you see her in a state of being completely comfortable with who she is, where she is. She is love in her life. But yeah, I would say that she's totally like the princess of Gilead when you first meet her.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting because in the Handmaid's Tale, you're dealing mostly with women in this, you're dealing with teenage girls. Has that changed the perspective?

[Chase Infinity]

Well, I think from the start, I mean, even getting to work with girls around my age, you feel that, that burst of, of energy and the burst of, of youth, I guess. And that carries through the screen, I, I, I would say. But I think like one of the things I was so excited to do, since you're talking about the youth, was just talk about the things that is so universal, like having friends, the big emotions that you were saying earlier, having a crush, going through puberty, which makes everything even more crazy than it already is. I loved that about our show. And I thought that that was also something that could be a strong connection point too, with newer audiences, with younger audiences. Because even though Gilead is Gilead, there's things that are universal regardless of where you're from. And I would say that friendship, love, and I mean, puberty is a big one of them.

[Alison Stewart]

Bruce. Teenage girls are still teenage girls in many ways. They gossip, sometimes they bully each other. How did you think about what living in Gilead would change about the way the girls interact and what would remain the same away the way teenage girls interact? I think as a teenage girl.

[Bruce Miller]

Right. I mean, that's, that is the, the big issue right here is why am I doing this? But, you know, you have to ask me your question again. What would change and what would stay the same?

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bruce Miller]

I think almost everything stays the same. It just stays inside and the same. And I think that, you know, what. What. The force of kind of friendship and, you know, adolescence or puberty, and also all the forces that make, you know, kind of push a teenage girl into womanhood, those are much, much, much stronger than. Than anything that Gilead can do. And you've seen it through history. There's no totalitarian state in the world that didn't have rebellious teenagers. Even in North Korea, they have rebellious teenagers. So I think that, you know, what Margaret was tapping into and what we've continued is you're really looking at, you know, an irresistible force hitting an immovable object, and Gilead is the immovable object. But, you know, teenage girls are definitely an irresistible force.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm speaking to actor Chase Infinity and showrunner Bruce Miller about the Testaments, the new series adaptation of Margaret Atwood's sequel to the Handmaid's Tale. The series premieres on Hulu on Wednesday. Chase, what was the most challenging part of getting. Getting Agnes right?

[Chase Infinity]

Getting Agnes right. I think. I wouldn't say challenging, but I knew how loved Hannah is and still is, and I think that that was something that I was super mindful of because she's so much love around her, both in the Handmaid's Tale and also in. In the Testaments. And I wouldn't say it was necessarily a challenge, but it was something that I really wanted to make sure that I kept true and I kept honest, and I wanted to lead with her honesty and lead with her love. So I wouldn't say it was a challenge, but it was definitely something that I was like. I have to make sure that I do this right.

[Alison Stewart]

Bruce, why did. Why was. We're gonna talk about you like you're not here, Chase.

[Chase Infinity]

I know. I'm gonna turn away.

[Alison Stewart]

Why was Chase the right choice for Agnes?

[Bruce Miller]

Well, there's. There's a lot of reasons. I think, first of all, kind of and up front, her. Her audition was excellent. I mean, she. She. She's a very gifted woman and a very gifted actress, but she works her ass off as well. So she was very, very ready. And her audition was very fully baked as a person. You know, it's so, you know, and knowing that she really didn't know quite what the script was about or what it was connected to is even more impressive. But then I think with Chase, it was a. That she felt like she owned the character, which is very hard in a character that's been played by seven other actresses over the time period. But also, I felt like she had a lot of range as an actor. When I looked at the things that she had done, I had seen Presumed Innocent, and I knew that she had been in one battle after another, but I hadn't seen any footage. But you see the footage you have, and then you see the performance by the actor in the audition, but then you speak to the person a little bit, you know, talk to Chase a little bit, and then you kind of look around into her world. And one of the things we found was looking at her, the things she had posted on social media and the range of human being between those things is what really. Because in tv, it's all about range. In film, it's fine. It's two hours. You don't need that much range sometimes. But in success, I need Chase to be able to do lots more than she's done. And so you have to look for range when you're casting a television actor.

[Alison Stewart]

That's so interesting. I wrote a little note to myself. Ask Chase about scripted versus movie. You're this. You're in all episodes of this show versus one battle after another. An amazing movie. Thanks. By the way, congratulations on the Oscar.

[Chase Infinity]

Thank you so much.

[Alison Stewart]

But it's a different. It's a different, I don't know, species than a TV show.

[Chase Infinity]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

What's the difference for you as an actor having to sustain all of the episodes versus being in a movie?

[Chase Infinity]

I think. Well, first of all, Bruce, you are so sweet, so thank you so much. But I think, like, the big difference for me is television has. You need to have stamina to be in a TV show. And it's not a bad thing. It's just something that it takes a second to get back into. And then I guess, like, with film, for me, the thing that I wasn't used to at the time when I did that is I wasn't used to how much time we had, because with that one, we could spend days on a scene. Whereas in tv, you move at a much quicker pace and you're memorizing material at a quicker pace. So I think that, like, they're just different muscles that I'm using in my mind and in my body. But I just remember, like, when we first started shooting, I was like, oh, I forgot what it was like to film a TV show, let alone, like, I've never, I guess, like, been the lead of one. So that was, like, a massive learning curve, too. But, I mean, I really leaned on our cast and crew and to Bruce and to all of our other producers. So I. A lot of like my 99% of my success in the show is because of them. I wouldn't have been able to do anything without them.

[Alison Stewart]

What have you learned about being number one on the call sheet?

[Chase Infinity]

Oh, God. I think the thing I've learned or the thing I've tried to do is be a voice of advocacy for everybody as much as I can. And if I can't be that, instill the confidence in my fellow actors and the people around me that they can. And I think that that's something that I felt very fortunate to learn very early on in my career with Presumed Innocent and Ruth Nega, my co star, kind of taught me the importance of that. And I've taken it forward with me for like even on one battle. And it's something that I really wanted to make sure to be there for people, especially on this. Since we have so many younger girls who this could be their first TV show, this could be their seventh or eighth. But their, they're at a much higher, I guess, number on the call sheet, which is intimidating at times. But I really wanted to be a voice of advocacy for people as much as I could.

[Alison Stewart]

We're talking about the Testaments, which premieres on Hulu this Wednesday. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking to actor Chase Infinity and showrunner Bruce Miller about the Testaments, a new series adaptation of Margaret Atwood's sequel to the Handmaid's Tale. The series premieres on Hulu this Wednesday. This is a question for both of you. Brisbane, I have to go first. And I was thinking about this after watching the first three episodes and I kind of debated myself how much of Agnes a little girl and how much is she a young woman. What do you think?

[Bruce Miller]

My sense is she's much more a young woman than a little girl. Gilead is keeping her a little girl. But I think that especially growing up in a place like Gilead, you become grown up much more quickly. So I think while they are constantly trying to infantilize all women and especially the younger women, I think that, you know, the character of Agnes and all her friends are absolutely, they feel like young women, which is why it feels so weird. They're trying to make them little girls.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you think, Chase?

[Chase Infinity]

I would say the exact same because like, the girls of Gilead stop becoming little girls the second that they stopped becoming pinks. And like Bruce said, like, you're, you're Dressing in pink. The girls dressing in pink. Yes, dressing in pink for context, because the. Agnes is a plum, technically. And so the pinks are the little girls in Gilead. So the second.

[Alison Stewart]

That's creepy. Let's start there.

[Chase Infinity]

Yeah, yeah. So the second that you leave that you become a plum. And I think that like, once you become a plum and these girls are forced even faster into young adulthood. And I think that like, in general, in life, girls are forced to become more mature far beyond their other male classmates. And so I think it's even quicker in Gilead. But you have the thing that Bruce was talking about where Gilead's also trying to keep them as little girls, but that's just not possible.

[Alison Stewart]

How does Agnes fit in at school?

[Chase Infinity]

Fit in at school? I think, like, she's. She has it figured out. She's really like, like I was saying earlier, comfortable with, with the system. She knows the ins and outs. She has her friends, which also gives her a stronger sense of, of like groundedness in, in her environment. And I think, like, as the show progresses, that kind of starts to become a shaky thing. But definitely when you first meet her, you're like, this girl has it figured out. She knows exactly what school is, like, what, what her after school system is going to be like.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear a clip from this series, the Testament, which features Agnes and the other girls at school and Daisy, who has recently come to the school as a pearl girl, someone from the outside who's coming into the fold. This is from the Testaments.

[Chase Infinity]

Daisy Craig, where do you hail from? Toronto, Canada. Minnesota. Shuname. That's a beautiful name. It is. I imagine Kenneth is very different from Gilead. Toronto has been forsaken by God and defiled by Satan. It is suffocating in sin. So do you miss her? I pray it will be swallowed whole by the earth. May he hear your prayer.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, they're so creepy. Bruce. The relationship between Daisy and Agnes becomes increasingly important to the Testaments. I don't want to give too much away, but how important was it to cast this, this group of young women?

[Bruce Miller]

Well, I think especially in this show, casting is everything. I mean, I think because you're, you know, you're digging around in the actor's ability for so long, but, you know, we don't do any. I didn't do any chemistry reads. There were so many great young actors who were submitted. But really the kind of the Testament, excuse me, goes to the casting people who. They see a thousand people and I see 10. So they really make it so that the people I'm choosing from are all very, very, very suitable. And you're just looking for someone who's good. But I think the most important thing beyond talent and being able is personality. I mean, you want people who are good at working together, because that's the only way we all. You know, if you have one person who's kind of sour, that person doesn't put in a bad performance. Everybody else does, because that person is spoiling for a fight. So TV is a lot about harmony, and harmony is about checking people's references. And I think so, you know, you do that a lot beforehand, but you do it quite deeply. And with Chase, fortunately, we had known. You know, I knew Otfag Benley from Handmaids. And he called, you know, when he knew we were looking at Chase, he called and let me know that he had worked with her and met her on Presumed Innocent and really thought she was not just a very talented actress, but kind of the right kind of person to have.

[Alison Stewart]

She sounds like.

[Bruce Miller]

She sounded like a good.

[Alison Stewart]

You sound like a good leader.

[Chase Infinity]

Oh, thanks. Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

That's what I'm hearing him say. All right, so let's talk rage.

[Chase Infinity]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

In the first episode, they love rage. We see a guy, you know, who basically gets his arm cut off. And in that moment, your character kind of goes. It's like Lord of the Flies moment. In that moment, what do we learn about Agnes in that moment when they're just screaming for this man to have his arm cut off?

[Chase Infinity]

Well, I think the thing you learn about Agnes is the thing that you learn with all of these girls is they're not allowed to show any sense of emotion about anything. And this is the one time that they can let it all out and not be, for like, lack of a better term, like, punished for it. Like, if there was any other circumstance where any of these girls would even raise their voice slightly at anybody, they would be punished for it. And so at that point, you really see kind of like, it's the first moment you see in Gilead where everything is not perfect and not everyone is, like, put together and. And has it all figured out. Like, that's the moment that you're like, oh, what is? What's going on underneath the surface? Are you okay? Like. And, like, granted, they aren't. But that's, like, kind of the first time that you see how, I guess how strong the rage is inside of them, whether or not they know it.

[Alison Stewart]

The novel the Testaments is separated into three different perspectives. Agnes, Daisy, and Aunt Lydia Bruce, what opportunities did that shifting structure present to you when you were adapting this?

[Bruce Miller]

Well, point of view is everything in writing and point of view, especially in television. So if you look at the Handmaid's Tale, the restrictive point of view of June really makes the show scary. If it didn't have a restricted point of view, it wouldn't be scary. If you knew from 30,000ft what was going on and what was going to happen every day, then, you know, the only. The fact that she is, you know, in ignorance. Is it scary here? So here we get to see more different parts of Gilead through the three perspectives, and I think that's incredibly helpful. So you can open up your eyes and you can open up your show to more parts of Gilead. But I think the most important thing to me is that you really hear three different voices of three different women, you know, at different ages and with different perspectives. So I think for me, you know, Handmaids was Gilead through her eyes. And as terrible as it was, it was through her eyes. This is. There's more Gileads here to explore because there's more eyes looking at them.

[Alison Stewart]

CHASE Agnes is raised by two white parents, the commander and her stepmother, who's a. You know, what do you think? Do you think race plays a part of her identity, Agnes's identity?

[Chase Infinity]

I, I honestly think that it's. It's unfortunately something she's not necessarily thought of in a way, because she has other black people around her. She has her Martha Zilla, who's really like her, one of her closest companions, in a way, and she has other friends at school, like Jehoshapha and. But I guess, like, from the sense of her being raised by two white parents, it's not really kind of been put at the forefront as much as I think it would, which is kind of crazy to think about, especially because the world that Gilead is and kind of the things that they stand for and Agnes is not a lot of the things that they would like necessarily, but she also, again, comes from an incredibly privileged place to where it doesn't play a part in. Well, not doesn't play a part in her life, but it doesn't play necessarily as large a part in her life because of who she's the daughter of and I guess her compared to her peers in that sense, and also just what she can offer the world in a way. So she's. She's privileged in the sense of. Of where she grew up, but she's also very privileged in that. That way as well.

[Alison Stewart]

Bruce, we get glimpses of the world before Gilead. One of Agnes's Marthas says to her, explains Tinder to her in the dialogue. How much did you think about the balance between sort of recognizable real world imagery versus the world of Gilead?

[Bruce Miller]

Well, I think you want to be. You want to be thoughtful about it and just make sure it makes sense. So, you know, although Agnes has never seen Bugs Bunny, her parents, you know, both Paula and Kyle have, and the parents of all her friends. So what seeps through, what in my language would seep through to my children, even if they didn't have it? So they say weirdo, for example, which is, you know, probably something from their parents. So I, I'm very fussy kind of with the. Very, very, very fussy with the dialogue because these girls are so careful in the way that they speak. I have to be very careful. So, you know, literally don't have that many words to speak in an episode of television. So you can be pretty fussy. So we do go down the rabbit hole quite a bit on what words would they use, where would they have heard them? And, you know, it's hard, you know, it's just. It's an interesting experiment to do mean girls in Gilead with a bunch of young women who've never seen mean girls. They're not doing an imitation of mean girls, they're doing themselves.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you remember an example of that?

[Chase Infinity]

I can't think of one specific one. But, like, what Bruce was talking about, like, especially the things that the girls hear from their parents. Like, Shunamite is a case in point, like the perfect person of she will listen and repeat to what she hears her Martha say, what she hears her parents say. And like, that's one of the things that I really love about Shunammite specifically is that and that part about her personality.

[Alison Stewart]

The Handmaid's Tale premiered almost a decade ago, Bruce, and in some ways where we live in the United States is very similar. It's very different. That was before Roe versus Wade was overturned. Same president with the same name. Have you thought about making the show

[Bruce Miller]

for this moment as little as possible. I think the best thing about Handmaid's Tale is I read it when I was in college and I reread it over the years and every time I read it, it seemed like it was written for that moment.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that's interest.

[Bruce Miller]

It's kind of a testament to the prescience of Margaret and kind of she picks up on the friction points between government and people, between men and women, and Those friction points don't go away. So I think that it isn't written. She doesn't write for the current moment. I think she has a worldview that's much broader than that. And so. And so I tried not to. Right. For the moment, I try to adapt the book, you know, and really, if the books. And the book speaks to, you know, lots of moments, and I'm sure it will continue to speak to lots of moments. But, you know, honestly, the timing in TV is too slow. I mean, I couldn't. You know, I wrote all of the season of Handmaid's Tale, the first season before the election in November. So there was. I had no idea what was going to happen. So it's, you know, it's no fun that we sit around Chase and I and all of us thinking of the worst things in the world that can happen to women, and then they happen. It's no fun to be right in that way. Kind of awful.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, I also believe creative people have a certain. They kind of pick up on stuff. I do believe that. Chase, you have an incredible voice.

[Chase Infinity]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

And I know, like, musical theater is really important to you, and we have a lot of Broadway people who listen to this show.

[Chase Infinity]

Hi.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi. What's your dream role on Broadway?

[Chase Infinity]

Oh, my gosh. I have so many. Theater is like. Like, I went to school for musical theater. So, like, when I tell people I never could have imagined being in TV and film, like, I genuinely mean that. I never could have pictured it, but, I mean, I'm. I'm so happy to be here, but Broadway is, like, my dream. I. I'm trying to think of one. Natasha. And Natasha Peer in the great comedy of 1812 is, like, so good. One of my dream roles, and it's been since I saw it in 2017. I've loved Danae Benton ever since then. I think that that show is absolutely incredible. If I could be anybody in Pippin, I think I would do a backflip. There's so many shows, and, like, I always forget some, and then I'm like, oh, man, I should have said that one instead. I should have said that one, too. But there's so many. And a lot of the time I'm like, whether or not it's a named character or I just want to be in the ensemble. Like, I would. I would die to tap in something. Granted, I'm not. Not probably as strong as I used to be, but I love to tap and I love to dance, and if I could just be in anything, like, I'll I'll. I'll carry a prop across the stage. I don't care. I. I just want to be in the show. I literally just want to be in the room, and that will make me the most happy person on the planet.

[Alison Stewart]

You heard her.

[Chase Infinity]

Blogger.

[Alison Stewart]

Producers. And one last question, and this is just me talking to you is like, curly hair. You have curly hair, I have curly hair. It's never the same the same day.

[Chase Infinity]

Exactly.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you do that on the set?

[Chase Infinity]

Listen, I'm gonna tell you my secret. Okay? I'm gonna tell you my secret and the. The tea. The truth is, we had an incredible hair department, but I would twist my hair every Sunday. Like, every single Sunday. I would sit myself down, and I would give myself three hours to wash and twist my hair and set it for the week. And I feel so grateful that I also had an incredible woman named suanne who was doing my hair while we were shooting, and she would keep up with the maintenance, but I would twist my hair every single Sunday without hesitation, because I've done that for the past five years. I did that on Presumed Innocent. I twisted my hair. I did my own hair for one battle. So I know it's never the same, but, I mean, you did a good job, though. Listen. Yeah, the continuity is not me, but the initial. The initial set, that's me. But everything after that, that's like, that. That all goes to our incredible hair department. That. I can't take credit for that because I would. I would be lost without them.

[Alison Stewart]

Bruce, how did you do your hair for that?

[Chase Infinity]

No, just kidding.

[Bruce Miller]

Well, it's. It's a big thing. I mean. I mean, she's casual about it, but, you know, our business handles black girl hair very poorly, and the fact that she had to do her hair on every. Every Sunday is not fair.

[Alison Stewart]

What's called being number one on the call sheet, man. You took charge of the situation.

[Chase Infinity]

I also was like. It gave me also, like. I know it was difficult to do every Sunday, but it also was a great point of me being able to kind of reset. Like, I'm literally washing my hair completely starting fresh, and I could force myself to sit down and watch something. I would watch a movie. I would watch a TV show. I would get on FaceTime with my friends, because even though it was, like, the weekend, I wouldn't necessarily give myself time off. And that was, like. That was a time I could give myself three hours to do nothing or recharge myself. And even though it was tough, like, I was so glad that I did that so I could have a forced break for myself, because otherwise, I would not let myself do that.

[Alison Stewart]

A little bit of self care. The new series is the Testaments. It's going to premiere this Wednesday on Hulu. My guests have been Bruce Miller, the showrunner, and actor Chase Infinity. It was nice to meet both of you.

[Chase Infinity]

Aw, thank you so much. It was so nice to talk to you.

[Bruce Miller]

Thank you so much.

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Chase Infinity]

Oh, no. My coffee. Bronnie.

[Alison Stewart]

Here.

[Bruce Miller]

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[Chase Infinity]

Wow.

[Alison Stewart]

Got a clean shirt.

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[Bruce Miller]

Some of the strongest.