Jerry Barmash (3:06)

Can you put into perspective how rare it is to have that kind of career as a news anchor for 50 years?

Alison Stewart (3:13)

There are so few that have gotten 20, 30 years, 40 years. To reach 50 years is unprecedented. It's, it's something that is not just in New York, but in any market. You, you just don't see it. It is, it is such a business that is so changeable between the, the ownership and news directors. And there's always people coming in and they want to bring in different talent for any reason. You know, it's always an issue that happens. And in this case, to be able to stay for five decades is remarkable.

Jerry Barmash (3:56)

You think about the role that local news has had in our lives and how it has changed dramatically from when he started it in the 70s to his retirement now and how much technology has changed because of it. Why do you think he was uniquely positioned to last this long?

Alison Stewart (4:14)

You know, it's true with technology, in the old days, they had what was called the Mickey Mouse film reels, which were these big ears looking like Mickey Mouse for film. Now, of course, it's digital and everything is changed. He had, you know, you can't have longevity without having talent. You know, you don't get the longevity is great, but you have to be there to last. You don't just start and say, they don't just hire you and say you're there for 50 years. Obviously, some, you know, many things have to happen, many factors, and he had many skills that afforded him this family sort of feeling with the audience. And that's one of the reasons that he became this stable figure for viewers.

Jerry Barmash (5:05)

Listeners, we want to hear from you. How have you reacted to the news of Chuck Scarborough's retirement? Did you grow up watching him on the nightly local news? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can text that number as well. What do you think were his best qualities as a news anchor? Did you watch him from the seven days all the way up until now? Any memorable stories that he covered? 212-433-9692. Of course, there was his co anchor for 30 years, Sue Simmons. What did you enjoy the most about watching Chuck and Sue? We're taking your calls and reactions about Chuck Scarborough's retirement from TV after 50 years on WNBC. Our numbers, 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. My guest for this segment is Jerry Barmash, broadcaster and author of the book Hear now the News An Inside Scoop into New York's Best Loved Anchors. You've met Chuck before and you quoted him in your book. What were your impressions of him? Let's start him as a regular guy.

Alison Stewart (6:13)

He, I met him at the New York Emmy Awards several years ago and although I didn't do a long interview for the spec specifically for the book, I certainly used it for the book. And talking about his start in New York and at that point, I guess he was at 40 years or so and how he's, you know, he's lasted. And he thanked the audience because obviously you don't get the viewers, you don't get the eyeballs. You don't last, no matter how good you are. It's sort of the tree falling in the forest. You know, you don't know unless people are watching. He was, was, he was not aloof. He was, you know, he was a decent person. He wasn't, you know, we weren't buddies, but he stopped, we chatted a few minutes and he was, you know, he was very pleasant. I would say.

Jerry Barmash (7:07)

Let's learn a little bit about Chuck Scurbo. Scurbo Scarborough. Excuse me. He came to WNBC in 1974. Where did he get his start in TV journalism?

Alison Stewart (7:18)

He went to the University of Mississippi and then worked in Biloxi. He, by the way, is from Pittsburgh. And then the first major market was really like a very brief stop. He was, for two years he was in Boston, but he, you know, he turned heads, he became very popular there and within two years he was in New York.

Jerry Barmash (7:44)

In your book you report that before joining NBC, Chuck Scarborough was recruited to join Eyewitness News on Channel 7, where two other notable anchors were working, Grimsby and Butel. How close did Chuck get to joining wabc?

Alison Stewart (7:59)

Yeah, it's a revelation that I didn't know about. You know, it's not new, of course, because it's from 50 plus years ago, but it really would have changed the trajectory of not just Chuck, not just wabc, but really the landscape of media in New York City. You know, obviously when you're talking about major players in media, in local news, that really would have changed everything. And it came close. Al Primo, who created Eyewitness News in New York in 1968 and then had Grimsby and Butel together in 1970, went to Boston three times to interview Chuck and it didn't happen. But I think it more didn't happen because of Chuck. From what Primo had said that he realized that you had the two stalwarts there in Grimsby and Butel and it would have been harder for him to fit in. And he was only 28, 29 years old at that point.

Jerry Barmash (8:57)

Chuck, was he always Chuck? Was he ever Charles?

Alison Stewart (9:01)

You know, at the very beginning he was Charles, I believe in Mississippi. He was not in Boston, but he was early on. Yeah, that's a good point.

Jerry Barmash (9:11)

Let's talk to Harold, who's calling in from Midtown. Harold, thanks so much for calling all of it.

Caller (9:17)

Thank you. Growing up, native New Yorker, Chuck and Sue, watching two professionals, top of their game. It was like a mixed marriage that was so important on national television. The female male aspect, the African American, white aspect. They were so perfect together and so important to watch their perfect ambiance together.

Jerry Barmash (9:50)

Love that. Harold, thank you so much for calling in. We're asking you your reaction to the news of Chuck Scarborough's retirement. Did you grow up watching him just like Harold did? What do you think were his best qualities as a news anchor? Did you enjoy watching Chuck and Sue? Why did they work as partners? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. So, Jerry, his first broadcast on WNBC was March 25th, 1974. Since then he's won more than 30 Emmys. So what kind of reputation did he begin to earn as a New York anchorman?

Alison Stewart (10:30)

Very quickly he became known as someone who was, you know, quality journalism, who was, he became well respected, I think even before he got to New York. But very quickly, his bosses and the viewers, they realized they had something special here. And they also, they brought him in, creating a brand new newscast, a news format, if you will, in News Center 4, which was the first two hour newscast in New York. They had started it at the local, the O and O in la at knbc, Johnson just before that. So he was hired for that expansion of the news. And, and it, and it worked. And they actually started to take viewers away from the vaunted WABC eyewitness news. And it was in large part to Chuck Scarborough's work at wnbc.

Jerry Barmash (11:28)

Well, what was special about how he delivered the news on a nightless basis? His professionalism.

Alison Stewart (11:34)

He, you know, you don't find mistakes with him. I mean, he was just a solid, well prepared newscaster. If you Go back and look at stuff on new on YouTube or you won't find flubs. And I don't even remember during newscasts in the last 10, 20 years. Even getting older, he was always so well prepared where he just knew his stuff, you know, as they say, being well read in. He knew where he was talking about, he knew the information. He was just a knowledgeable journalist, a knowledgeable newsman. And, and it, and it came through and I, and, and there was, there was an immediate trust between him and the, and the viewers, they, they, you know, like I said, they. Well, he was well respected and there was a trust that was there from, from the get go.

Jerry Barmash (12:32)

Got some great texts here. I remember Chuck for a marathon broadcast he anchored during either a blizzard or blackout in the 70s. Here's another text. 1983, I was an 8th grade girl in Queens. We had a social studies assignment to interview someone who had an influence on society. I decided to write to Sue Simmons and Chuck Scarborough. To my immense surprise and delight, they both responded and gave me a half an hour out of their busy lives. I got an A. Then I went to work for NPR and abc. That's a great text.

Alison Stewart (13:04)

Wow.

Jerry Barmash (13:05)

Let's talk to Sharon. Hi, Sharon. Sharon's calling from Queens. Hi, Sharon.

Caller (13:10)

Hi. You know, I remember Chuck as not the news guy. He was like your teacher was like telling you what, what was going on. Didn't want to scare you, like this is the news. It was more, you know, there's something going on. I'm going to give you as many details as I can, but it's not alarming because you're going to have the information. And I'm feeling the same thing you are about it. Just a great guy, always polished hair, always comb, cool guy. I was like, oh my God, he was the best. Because that's when I just started watching news and usually watching news for my 7 year old granddaughter. It's alarming and I don't let her watch it. But him I used to watch. I used to be in the house by myself and I wasn't scared.

Jerry Barmash (14:01)

Thank you for calling. Let's talk to Maria from Verona, New Jersey. Hi Maria, thank you so much for calling, all of it.

Caller (14:09)

Hi Allison. Thank you. I remember When I was 6 years old, my dad was working at NBC and I remember Chuck Scarborough being hired and my dad and the other old timers there, you know, they looked at him, blonde hair, handsome guy, and they were like, oh, he's just a pretty boy. He's never going to last. And as time went By I would still see Chuck on tv And I thought, there he is, he's still there. He's still there. So 50 years later, my dad and all the other old timers were certainly wrong about Chuck Scarborough.

Jerry Barmash (14:45)

Love that. Thank you so much. This is a text that goes along with what she said. Completely shallow observation. But he was a good looking dude. He had the reporting skills to back it up. But he looked fantastic on camera. A little heart emoji. What did you learn about his good looks? How do they, they worked for him. To his, to his credit, although he was talented, we have to say that.

Alison Stewart (15:10)

Absolutely. Yeah. You don't stay for, you know, nevermind, 50 years. You probably don't even stay five years if you're just, as the caller said, a pretty boy. You know, I almost had a laugh because Pia Lindstrom who worked with Chuck and the others at wnbc for 25 years or so said, you know, he was a pretty boy. But you don't stay because you're a pretty boy. There has to be talent. And clearly, as we've been saying, there were many skills that Chuck brought and sure, it's a visual medium and he had a, he had a nice look. And I do know that there were reports done internally. Women reacted very positively to Chuck and I'm sure many still do. And so that was, that was the case. And he was, you know, he was beloved. Men wanted, you know, it's that line. Men wanted to be him, women wanted to be with him. But he was, he was professional. I mean he just, he was not there because of his looks. He was there because of his abilities.

Jerry Barmash (16:18)

We are talking about the retirement of WNBC's Chuck Scarborough. Did you grow up watching him? What do you think his best qualities were as an anchor? Do you have a story about Chuck Scarborough delivering the news? Our phone lines are open. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll take more of your calls and we'll speak more with Jerry Barmash after this quick break. This is all of it. WNYC Studios is supported by GiveWell. When you make a big purchase, say a car or a new mattress, how do you make sure that you're making the right choice? GiveWell provides an independent resource for a different kind of purchase, a donation. Over 100,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate. First time using GiveWell. When you go to givewell.org and pick podcast and enter WNYC at checkout, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year or as long as matching funds last.

Alison Stewart (17:16)

Science has given us the tools to ensure that no one else has to die from aids, and yet hundreds of thousands of people die each year. Why? I'm Kai Wright here to remind you that the story of this epidemic is still told in the present tense for World AIDS Day. I ask a community health advocate, an activist and a journalist to consider what it would take to put an end to this plague once and for all. Their answers next time on Notes FROM America. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Jerry Barmash (17:55)

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're speaking about the news that longtime NBC New York News anchor Chuck Scarborough is retiring this month after 50 years on the air. His last broadcast will be on December 12th. We're taking your calls. Our guest is Jerry Barmash. He's a broadcaster and author of the book Hear now the An Inside Scoop into New York's Best Loved Anchors. I want to play a clip for you, Jerry. In New York, there's been breaking news that Chuck has had to cover over the years. Let's listen to an example from December 1980, when news about John Lennon being shot.

Chuck Scarborough (18:35)

We have a rather startling story that just came in here. A man who has been tentatively identified as John Lennon, the former beetle has been shot on Central park west outside the Dakota where John Lennon lives. Police rushed him to Roosevelt Hospital. We have no word in his condition right now. The police say they do have a suspect in custody. He is a local man. They won't say much more about him. They say there is no apparent motive. And again, the identification of the victim is tentative at this point. Police are saying they believe it is John Lennon. If we have any more information on this story this evening, we will certainly bring it to you.

Jerry Barmash (19:05)

That is a difficult thing, breaking news like that. What do you hear in that delivery that represents how Chuck Scarborough handled breaking news?

Alison Stewart (19:14)

He was a master of breaking news, Alison. I mean, when and look at how he did that. He did it. That person that we had on saying about he, he delivered the news almost as a teacher where he was telling you stuff and not panicking and you could hear it. It was serious. You knew it was serious. But he didn't, he didn't give you a scare. You know, it was almost conversational, like I'm telling you this, you need to know this. We'll get more information. And did it without a flub. I mean, it's a master class by Chuck Scarborough.

Jerry Barmash (19:51)

Let's take a few more calls. Nancy is calling in from Westchester County. Hi, Nancy. Thanks for calling all of it.

Caller (19:57)

Hi, I'm calling about us, Tim. Chuck Scarborough as a person. I was running the Westchester Half Marathon and he was out in the spectator group. And when I got to him, I said, oh, I love you. You're the best. And he said, oh, no, you runners, you're the heroes today.

Jerry Barmash (20:17)

Oh, what a great response from him. Thank you so much for sharing that. Let's talk to Steve in Greenwood Cemetery. Hi, Steve.

Caller (20:27)

Hi. Great show. I was a regular Viewer of Channel 7 Eyewitness News until February 9th of 1978. There was a blizzard in the city and I randomly tuned into Channel four and the first time I had seen Chuck Scarborough, he had come into the studio in just a dark sweater and open shirt and he said he had to walk several miles through the blizzard to get to the studio. And ever since then I watched him regularly.

Jerry Barmash (21:00)

Thanks so much for calling. Let's talk to Brian from Springfield, New Jersey. Hi, Brian.

Caller (21:05)

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm old enough to remember when News Center 4 debuted and it was kind of so different because it was this like two hour block of local news. You know, it was very unique and you know, they filled a lot of time with it. And so it was hard to anchor, I think, two hours straight like they used to do. And you know, the some other callers mention it. You know, the handsome white guy with a nice voice is certainly the stereotype and a lot of people were comfortable with it and are still comfortable with it, but he backed it up with a lot of talent and he really just, you know, he bridged the gap between the very serious no opinion news when you just gave the facts and what became, you know, kind of haha personable news where every news story had to have a comment after it. And he was able to survive these different eras, you know, to fit in. Really a lot of talent to be able to do that, to transition at a time when news gathering was much more serious in his time and much more personable as it became. And it really speaks to his talent and his adaptability to the different styles of news.

Jerry Barmash (22:20)

That's a really good point, Brian. Thank you so much for calling in. That actually brings me to his co anchor, Sue Simmons. Now initially in your book you write that he wasn't really sure he wanted a co anchor. What's the story there?

Alison Stewart (22:35)

Yeah, and I think, you know, as I interview a lot of people in the book, all of the great anchors or people who knew a lot of the anchors, when you're a solo anchor, you don't necessarily want to relinquish that when you've been doing it for some time. And. And Chuck was the same way. Sue Simmons had told me that it was, you know, an ego. You don't want to have to give that up because you're getting all of the air time. But she said to me, she said it all worked out because, quote, I'm fun. Which is sort of what you need. All you need to know there. But sue and Chuck and sue together.

Jerry Barmash (23:14)

Yeah. So many people in New York metro area grew up with Chuck and Sue in their home for more than 30 years. Why did New York audiences love Scarborough and Sisms and Simmons together, they.

Alison Stewart (23:27)

They were the perfect match because somebody said, you know, white, black man, woman, that's fine. And that's all true. And that's, you know, the perfect demographic of New York City. But together, they were the yin and yang. I mean, they. He was the more serious one. And of course, sue could be, you know, whenever it was warranted, but she was able to have more of the, you know, the laughter when there was this, you know, the softer or lighter story or when they could joke around a little bit with sports, with weather, you know, whoever. Marv Albert, Len Berman, Frank Field, Al Roker, she could. She could bring that out, not just in her and in the other colleagues, but of course, with Chuck. And it was genuine and it was, you know, they absolutely loved it. Not just the people at the station, but of course, the viewers. They gravitated to the both of them together. And it makes you wonder, did that help Chuck survive for as long as he did? And obviously she retired in 2012. But it makes you wonder, if the two of them weren't together for 30 plus years, would Chuck have made it to 50 years? I don't know. I mean, he certainly had reason to, and he certainly had many, many skills that he brought, but, you know, it makes you wonder.

Jerry Barmash (24:57)

Got some great texts here. This says, hey, Allison, I became a Chuck Scarborough fan when you reported on the donation of a woman who gave her life savings to University of Mississippi. It wasn't breaking news, but an important human interest story. I'll miss him. This text says, I was in labor back in the 90s with our daughter Sophie, and Chuck and sue helped keep me calm. We always joke that she was live at 5. This one said, I had such a crush on Chuck Scarborough growing up. I think it started during a snowstorm. Remember those? When he wore A sweater instead of his usual suit. Many years later he was a customer at a store where I was working and I was positively giddy. Alas, I was not his salesperson. We don't know that much about Chuck Scarborough off air. Was that deliberate? I mean I, I can't think he had, if he had a partner.

Alison Stewart (25:45)

Chuck has been married. He's married. I believe it's his second time. He has children. He lives in Montauk or out in the Hamptons, I should say. He was a pilot for many years. He would be piloting. He wrote a couple or three books earlier on in his career. But yeah, I think he went out of his way to keep his news, his on air world separate from his private life. Having said that, you would see him at many functions in the city and certainly out east, but his private life he has kept, kept to himself. His private life he's kept private, I guess.

Jerry Barmash (26:28)

I have a question. He was a local news legend. He chose not to go national. Why do you think he chose not to go national, become a national news anchor? It's wnbc, not NBC News.

Alison Stewart (26:45)

You know, I don't know that he necessarily chose, you know, I uncovered an interesting quote from him only two years after he came to New York in 1976, very early in his career in New York that he had said he wanted to become the NBC News anchor when at that point it was John Chancellor and David Brinkley and he said hopefully the evening anchor and NBC at NBC and when they leave. So it was already in the back of his mind then. And he would do some network stuff. He would do the weekend nightly news, he would do the NBC News digests or updates in prime time, those little one minute headlines in the 80s that ultimately they stopped those. I don't know why. He certainly had the, you know, the talent because New York City is sort of like 1 and 1A between network and I mean, you know, when you're in New York you're, you're, you know, you're qualified to be in network anchoring and reporting. I don't know, but it certainly, I don't know that it was something that was, you know, a void for him. But it's, but I thought it was telling that in just a couple of years he had already put that, you know, as a long term goal. Obviously it didn't happen to that extent. And you know, it's just something that most of these, if not all of the local anchors of that era never got. Network notoriety a little bit here or there, some network morning shows or things like that or filling in, but nothing, you know, really major of high profile assignments.

Jerry Barmash (28:42)

Before we go, Jerry, I know your book is now available in an audiobook format. What is one thing we'll learn about Chuck Scarborough from reading your book or listening to your book?

Alison Stewart (28:54)

I should say, yeah, and I did it. I did it all myself, which was fun. Four hours. I think people will understand that he was a great, a legendary anchor and I give that respect. As I say in one of the chapters that I title, Lou Young, a former reporter, was asked to fill in as an anchor with Chuck once at wnbc and he said, which I used as a chapter title, do I want to play catch with Mickey Mantle? So it comes across that love that everybody is feeling and wishing him well. That's what comes across about him.

Jerry Barmash (29:34)

Jerry Barmash is a broadcaster and he is the author of the book Hear now the News An Inside Scoop into New York's Best Loved Anchors. Jerry, thank you so much for your call and your conversation.

Alison Stewart (29:48)

Thanks so much, Allison.

Jerry Barmash (29:49)

I do want to read this last text. I recall a time years ago when I was at FAO Shores with a friend. We saw Chuck Scurbo. We weren't sure it was him, but when he noticed our quizzical looks, he nodded his head and he waved.

Alison Stewart (30:05)

If you know your party's extension, press or say 1 to leave a message in our company mailbox. Press or say two. Spoiler alert. It will be full representative. Would you speak to your mother in that tone? Speak to a real human being. You shouldn't need to shout into the.

Jerry Barmash (30:23)

Void to get your health insurance questions answered. Pacific Source Health Plans, this is a real person. How can I help you? Human service, not automated phone trees. Pacific Source Health Plans, this is Ira.

Alison Stewart (30:35)

Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.