Podcast Summary: All Of It – Claire Messud’s New Family Drama 'This Strange Eventful History'

Host: Koosha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Claire Messud
Date: May 22, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode features acclaimed author Claire Messud, discussing her new novel This Strange Eventful History. The work is deeply inspired by Messud’s own family history, particularly her grandfather’s memoir. The conversation explores themes of family legacy, French colonialism in Algeria, generational trauma, and the complexity of identity across time and place. Messud and Navadar reflect on how personal and historical dramas intertwine in literature and life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of the Novel

[03:20–04:10]

• Messud’s inspiration for the book stemmed from her grandfather’s 1928–1946 memoir. She read it only in 2017, sparking the novel’s development.
• She describes intermittent compulsion over the years to tackle this family story, indicating how the novel gestated over decades.

“I could answer it by saying, oh, 20 years ago or, oh, 10 years ago or, oh, five years ago…my grandfather wrote this memoir… I didn’t read it until 2017…” – Claire Messud [03:27]

2. Interpreting Family Through Fiction

[05:02–06:02]

• Messud notes that middle age gave her the perspective needed to see her relatives “not embroiled in the same way,” recognizing them simply as people.
• She reflects on the impact of reading letters from deceased relatives, allowing empathy beyond familial roles.

“If I step outside, they’re people, just people like you and me, striving, hoping, being disappointed.” – Claire Messud [05:36]

3. Researching Historical Moments

[06:19–07:10]

• Messud underscores the blending of fact and fiction: while the characters’ thoughts and actions are invented, the historical context is meticulously researched via both books and online resources.
• Example shared: discovering a 1953 French newsreel on drilling for oil in the Algerian desert via YouTube.

“There is, in fact, a newsreel that you can find on YouTube from 1953, a French newsreel about an oil dig in the Algerian desert.” – Claire Messud [06:56]

4. Understanding ‘Pied-Noirs’ and Settler Colonialism

[07:41–08:46]

• Messud explains the distinction between different colonial models, emphasizing that Algeria was a French settler colony and, administratively, a part of France until 1962.
• She contextualizes the tensions and traumas of the War of Independence (1954–62), traced through her family’s legacy.

“Algeria was a department of France. It was actually considered a department of France until it gained independence in 1962 after a war that began in 1954…” – Claire Messud [08:02]

5. Intergenerational Perspectives on Colonialism and Identity

[09:00–10:09]

• Messud highlights how the generational context shapes views: for the grandparents, colonialism is untroubled; for their children, especially post-WWII, it becomes a source of conflict.
• Characters Dolores and Francois represent divergent responses: escape versus nostalgia/bitterness.
• Chloe, a later generation, re-examines identity through a contemporary lens, even referencing Frantz Fanon.

“I wanted to try to capture…the way the same events are viewed differently depending on your moment in history and your cultural beliefs.” – Claire Messud [09:04]

6. Writing Across Place and Time

[10:30–11:14]

• Messud traveled to several relevant locations (Thessaloniki, Malta, Beirut), even if some didn’t make it into the novel. Some settings were reimagined using digital resources.

“There was a little traveling…I went to Thessaloniki…went to Malta…went to Beirut…some I had to make up. I did not get to Algiers.” – Claire Messud [10:50]

7. The Complexity of Assimilation

[11:20–12:19]

• Francois’ attempts to shed his French accent and history upon moving to Massachusetts reflect broader themes of reinvention and assimilation in postwar society.
• Messud portrays “the hopefulness and the amnesia” of mid-20th-century attitudes toward the past, and our current skepticism about escaping history.

“I think it’s something we’re a lot more skeptical about now, this idea that you can just shed your past like a skin.” – Claire Messud [12:12]

8. Structuring the Novel – The Power of Prime Numbers

[13:03–13:25]

• Navadar notes the novel’s structural use of prime numbers (seven decades, five and three points of view, twenty-three sections), which Messud confirms was a deliberate choice. Prime numbers – as “misfits” – reflect the misfit status of her characters.

“I designed the novel that way. You know, I…Yeah, it just made sense somehow.” – Claire Messud [13:25]

• Navadar draws a fascinating parallel to encryption: “We also use prime numbers to encrypt data online. It’s like prime numbers are holding secrets.” [13:32]

9. Defining Family Beyond Blood

[13:45–14:48]

• Messud resists a narrow definition of family, valuing chosen relationships as much as kinship. She shares a personal anecdote about college friends feeling like family.

“I think in an ideal state, family is love. Right. I mean, it’s also torture and anguish.” – Claire Messud [14:35]

10. Lessons Learned About Family Through Writing

[14:55–15:12]

• The act of writing this novel deepened Messud’s compassion and understanding of family: acceptance of flaws, mistakes, and the central role of love.

“I think that the spirit in which I wrote the novel…and that’s part of the midlife thing, is one of love and compassion. Right? Like that we’re all flawed and we all make terrible mistakes. And it’s okay, right? We’re doing our best.” – Claire Messud [14:55]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Middle Age and Perspective:
  “It’s something I couldn’t have done earlier in my life. Middle age has enabled me to sort of see clearly and understand.” – Claire Messud [05:11]

• On Generational Trauma:
  “For people born in the 30s…the post war moment…it was really, you couldn’t have an unconflicted relationship to colonialism.” – Claire Messud [09:13]

• On Family as Chosen Community:
  “I think in an ideal state, family is love. Right. I mean, it’s also torture and anguish.” – Claire Messud [14:35]

• On Order of Narrative Revelation:
  “The order in which you give out information affects everything.” – Claire Messud [12:33]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:20] Messud describes the origins of the novel rooted in her grandfather’s memoir.
• [04:10] Reading memoir details and the pivotal 1940 storyline.
• [05:11] The role of middle age and distance in writing empathetically about family.
• [09:00] The intergenerational impact of French colonialism in Algeria.
• [10:30] Researching places, both visited and imagined.
• [11:20] Francois’ experience with assimilation and reinvention in America.
• [13:03] Structural innovation in the novel using prime numbers.
• [13:45] On what truly defines a family beyond blood ties.
• [14:55] Lessons and wisdom gained from writing the novel.

Conclusion

This episode offers a richly layered exploration of history, identity, and family, illuminated by Claire Messud’s own journeys through memory, research, and empathy. For those interested in how personal experience can elevate fiction into nuanced cultural commentary, this conversation with Messud is essential listening—and reading.