Comedian Gary Gulman Tackles Personal Insecurities in 'Grandiloquent'

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – Episode Featuring Comedian Gary Gulman Tackles Personal Insecurities in Grandiloquent

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Guest: Comedian Gary Gulman
• Episode Title: Comedian Gary Gulman Tackles Personal Insecurities in Grandiloquent
• Release Date: January 15, 2025
• Description: All Of It is a show about culture and its consumers, aiming to engage thinkers, doers, makers, and creators in discussions about the what and why of their work.

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Introduction to Gary Gulman and Grandiloquent ([00:49] - [01:56])

Alison Stewart introduces the episode by highlighting Gary Gulman's one-person show, Grandiloquent, which delves into his childhood experiences through humor and storytelling. The show, running at the Lucille Lortel Theater until February 8th, is praised by The New York Times as a "critic's pick," noting Gary's unique ability to infuse acuity into his stand-up routines.

Notable Quote:

"Grand Eloquent is a New York Times critics pick. The paper said Gary Goleman takes it to another level with an acuity that few other standups can match." (01:56)

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The Genesis of Grandiloquent ([02:05] - [04:35])

Gary Gulman discusses the inception of Grandiloquent, attributing its creation to encouragement from Neil Marshall, a friend and producer known for producing Mike Birbiglia's and Colin Quinn's shows. Initially hesitant about performing a one-person show, Gary collaborated with his manager, Brian Stern, and producers Carly and Mike, feeling confident in their support.

Notable Quote:

"I knew that this would stretch my abilities in terms of writing, but also acting and performing." (02:44)

He expresses gratitude for the collaborative effort, especially praising set designer Beowulf Borch for creating a striking, dollhouse-like set that Gary found both ambitious and exciting.

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Collaboration with Set Designer Beowulf Borch ([04:35] - [05:31])

Alison Stewart inquires about the conversations Gary had with Beowulf Borch regarding the set design, which features oversized bookshelves that blur the lines between a library and a private home. Gary explains how Beowulf interpreted his book Misfit and the stand-up version of his show to create an immersive environment.

Notable Quote:

"It's ambitious and I would have. Well, this would be nice to draw, but how are we gonna make this work?" (05:31)

Gary is continually impressed by the set's grandeur, highlighting that its enormity surpasses his initial imaginings.

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Incorporating 70s Music for Audience Immersion ([06:50] - [07:36])

Gary shares his deliberate choice of 70s disco music as the show's soundtrack, aiming to evoke nostalgia and create an immersive experience for the audience. He believes the music resonates with universal memories, enhancing the emotional connection before performances.

Notable Quote:

"There's something about the music from when you're about 5 to about 18 or 19 that really just resonates and there's so much memory tied up in it." (06:56)

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Excerpts from The Great Depression and Mental Health ([08:15] - [10:55])

The conversation shifts to Gary's previous HBO special, The Great Depression, where he addresses mental health through humor. He reads a segment discussing the complexities of antidepressants, highlighting the uncertainty and trial involved in finding effective medication.

Notable Quote:

"I have tried Pamelor, Nortriptyline, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Paxil, Abilify, Adderall, Ativan, Klonopin, Duloxetine, Mirtazapine, Sertraline, Effexa, Celexa, Zyprexa." (08:33)

Gary reflects on the nuanced reactions from the audience, noting that while some find his approach funny, others may grapple with the heavier themes he presents.

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Personal Boundaries in Storytelling ([10:55] - [11:50])

Alison probes whether Gary set any boundaries while crafting his show. He reveals his intention to protect his wife's privacy, ensuring that while he shares personal stories, he remains respectful of her life outside his narrative.

Notable Quote:

"I don't like to involve my wife's life in it, so I only speak of the things that are clearly could be with anybody's wife." (10:55)

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Reflecting on Childhood Experiences ([12:13] - [15:40])

Gary recounts his early love for reading, specifically The Monster at the End of This Book by Jon Stone, and how it symbolized his early academic passion. He describes a transformative moment in the first grade when he vividly connected with reading, leading to a lifelong habit of storytelling and note-taking.

Notable Quote:

"It was such a revelation to me. And I just, after that, started going around the house reading everything I could." (12:13)

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Challenges with Authority and School Memories ([17:20] - [19:03])

Gary shares a poignant memory of a challenging teacher, whom he refers to as "Ayn Rand," who implemented a class vote to determine whether misbehaving students should stay after school. This experience of public humiliation and peer judgment left a lasting impact on him, shaping his understanding of authority and social dynamics.

Notable Quote:

"Initially, I thought, well, maybe I'll get out of staying after school. I really held out hope... but when it came down, I was like, oh, this is the worst humiliation of my life." (17:28)

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Insights on Adult Support for Children ([19:03] - [20:36])

In response to Alison's query about enhancing adult support for children, Gary emphasizes the importance of parents knowing their children's lives intimately. He contrasts his own upbringing, where fear of punishment hindered open communication, with his friend's approach of actively engaging with his daughter's interests and friendships.

Notable Quote:

"It's really important so that it wouldn't be such a big leap for you to notice that your kid is not behaving the same way they do and to ask some follow up questions." (19:03)

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Balancing Personal Life and Public Persona ([21:00] - [22:44)

Alison touches on Gary's humorous bit about over-analyzing cultural elements, prompting a discussion about his relationship with his wife and how it influences his comedy. Gary illustrates his penchant for detailed storytelling and the dynamic with his intellectually curious wife, who appreciates his depth of knowledge even when it leads to lengthy tangents.

Notable Quote:

"Because that is the exact song she asked about. She said, who sings this? And it was Show Me How to Live by Audioslave." (21:08)

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Role of Therapy in a Comedian's Life ([22:44] - [23:36])

Gary acknowledges the significance of therapy in his life, highlighting how his therapist uniquely understands the intricacies of the comedy scene. Unlike a general therapist, his current therapist can seamlessly navigate discussions about the entertainment industry's specific challenges without requiring lengthy explanations.

Notable Quote:

"It's different because you don't have to explain to him the toxic nature of the comedy scene." (23:01)

---

Emotional Dynamics During Performances ([25:13] - [26:38])

The dialogue explores how Gary manages emotional moments during his performances. He discusses the balance between expressing genuine emotions and maintaining the flow of his show, emphasizing the importance of conveying his feelings without disrupting the audience's experience.

Notable Quote:

"And you'll get emotional. And that's good. It's just a matter of getting it out without breaking up because you want the words to be heard." (25:16)

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Literary Influences and Writing Philosophy ([26:38] - [28:03])

Gary delves into his literary passions, citing Toni Morrison, Kurt Vonnegut, and Philip Roth as his favorite authors. He admires Morrison's profound and beautiful prose and appreciates Vonnegut's advocacy for persistent writing. These literary influences permeate his comedy, enriching his storytelling and thematic depth.

Notable Quote:

"Kurt Vonnegut always says, even if you just put it into a drawer, write, write. And I think that's such great advice and I'm so glad I took it." (26:49)

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts ([28:03] - [28:09])

Alison wraps up the interview by reiterating Gary's show details, expressing gratitude for his participation.

Notable Quote:

"It was an honor and a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Alison." (28:09)

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Key Takeaways:

• Grandiloquent is a deeply personal one-person show where Gary Gulman explores his childhood, insecurities, and experiences with humor and poignancy.
• Collaboration with talented professionals like set designer Beowulf Borch has been instrumental in bringing Gary's vision to life.
• Music plays a crucial role in setting the tone and enhancing audience immersion.
• Gary openly discusses mental health, leveraging humor to navigate and destigmatize personal struggles.
• Childhood experiences, particularly interactions with authority figures, have significantly shaped Gary's worldview and comedic narrative.
• Effective adult support and open communication are essential for children's emotional well-being.
• Literary influences profoundly impact Gary's writing and performance style, emphasizing depth and authenticity.

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This episode of All Of It offers listeners an in-depth look into Gary Gulman's creative process, personal history, and the multifaceted nature of his comedy. Through candid conversations and insightful anecdotes, Gary provides a comprehensive understanding of how personal insecurities and life experiences inform his art.

Transcript

[BetterHelp]

All of it is supported by BetterHelp. Every January brings you 365 blank pages waiting to be filled. What do you want your 2025 story to be? Therapy can be your editorial partner, helping you craft the next chapters with purpose. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online with a diverse network of over 30,000 therapists worldwide. Visit betterhelp.com allofitt today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com all of it listener.

[Gary Gulman]

Support WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Coming up on tomorrow's show, we'll speak with Chicago based rapper Saba, whose work with the famed hip hop producer no ID is featured on an upcoming album. Plus, Jesse Eisenberg will be here to discuss his film A Real Pain. That's in the future. Now let's get this started with Gary Goleman. When Gary Goleman takes the stage at the Lucille Lortel Theater, he looks professorial. Glasses, a goatee, a tweed jacket. He is on stage to share the lessons of his childhood through books and authors. Some memories are hilarious, some are hurtful. Some are require a dictionary, like the title of the show, Grand Eloquent, meaning quote, pompous or extravagant in language, style or manner, especially in a way that is intended to impress. We find out why the show is called that along the way. Grand Eloquent is a New York Times critics pick. The paper said Gary Goleman takes it to another level with an acuity that few other standups can match. The show is running at Lucille Ortel through February 8, and Gary Goleman joins me now. It's so nice to meet you.

[Gary Gulman]

It's an honor. I'm a fan of all npr, but I'm not yet a friend of the show. But the show is a friend of mine.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay, well, you can become a friend of the show.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay. Okay. I feel like one more visit and then I'll be a friend of the show. Welcome back, friend of the show.

[Alison Stewart]

Gary Goleman, this show is very different than your other televised show, Born on Third Base, the Great Depression. It has much more of a show feel to it.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

When did you start to work on it and what did you want the show to look like?

[Gary Gulman]

I had a friend in LA who came to see me do a standup version of this show at Largo in Los Angeles. His name is Neil Marshall and he produced the Great Depress and also he wrote the film the Flamingo kid from the 80s.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh my God.

[Gary Gulman]

Which I love.

[Alison Stewart]

Cute as a sundial.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes, yes. So he came to the show at Largo and he was enthusiastic and said this should be a one person show. And I hadn't really. I had aspired to that, but I did not have the confidence. And then I spoke with my manager, Brian Stern, and he called Carly and Mike, who produced the show, and they produce Mike Birbiglia's shows and also Colin Quinn's. And Colin Quinn is a friend and Mike is a friend. So I felt in good hands from the very beginning when they offered it to me and I was telling you off the air. My big concern was that nobody would show up. And that was my only reluctance because it's a 300 seat theater, which doesn't sound like a lot to a famous person, but to me that's a good show. And so to fill it for over a month, it was daunting to me. But we've been able to do that, so I'm very grateful. And so that's where it started is just. I knew that this would stretch my abilities in terms of writing, but also acting and performing. And the great thing about working in collaboration is they bring so many different ideas. So my director brought so many ideas to the writing. And then Mike and Carly suggested people in terms of lighting and audio design and the set design, which is done by Beowulf, who is extraordinary. And I was just blown away because I never would have thought of the set, which I think is so striking. When I first saw it, they in a very small dollhouse form and it was so exciting. So I'm just really grateful for all the people who came together to make this really special project.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. Beowulf Borch does the set. Tony award winning designer. It's bookshelves. Some are standing, some are knocked over. You can't tell you're in a library or you're in somebody's house. What conversations did you have with him about what you wanted the look to convey?

[Gary Gulman]

Well, I think that he read my book Misfit and also saw some. Some video that I had made of me doing the stand up version of this show, which is. Which is very different. And was able to figure out what. What I was getting at. And I could have never thought of it my myself. It's ambitious and I would have. Well, this would be nice to draw, but how are we gonna make this work? Because it's enormous. The bookshelves are so enormous. They're much bigger than me and it's just. I'm blown away every time I look at it. It's really exciting.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you get to talk to either Mike or Colin about doing a one person show?

[Gary Gulman]

I did. I talked to Mike off the air but also on his show called Working it out. And so we discussed that and he was very encouraging and I guess I didn't talk to Colin about this, but I watched some of Collins, Colin's work to prepare and I had seen it live but then to see how it turned out in the end was. Was very informative. And I guess the thing is you, you try to watch people that you admire and then try not to be too influenced so that, so that people don't.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

See it as a, as a ripoff. But it, it was, it's a, it's humbling because they are the best at it and I'm watching the best to do it. And so I think, well let me just, let me just do my version of this as best as I can and also not, not be too tied to the outcome in terms of whether I sell tickets or whether it gets good reviews. Just do my, my best other. Because that's really the only. Is to try to be myself and not compare. Compare and despair they say in 12 step meetings.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

So yeah, when you enter the theater, there's a 70s music soundtrack is playing. Did you pick that?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Oh, you did.

[Gary Gulman]

The great thing if you come to the stand up show is that you get about. If you get there really early, the doors open an hour and a half before the show. So they cut it down to about 35 minutes. I think of disco and 70s music and it gets me so excited to listen to it because there's, there's something about the music from when you're about 5 to about 18 or 19 that really just resonates and there's. There's so much memory tied up in it and it, and it really, it energizes me and makes me feel wistful, which I think is the. Is. Is a good headspace to be in before, before a performance like that.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

What did you want to. The music to give to the audience?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, immersion. I really imagined and it's probably ambitious but that they would feel like, oh, this reminds me of the time when I was listening to this music at that age. And so for me it's music and smells. I really wanted to be able to burn incense that smelled like September of 1977, which would be a combination of fireplace smoke and rotting leaves. And everybody smoked cigarettes back then. A Little ashtray. Exactly, exactly. A filthy ashtray.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

My guest is Gary Gulman. His show is called Grand Eloquent. I'm going to play a little bit of something from your last. That last special, the Great Depression. Because you write about mental health, you talk about it in this show as well. This is from your HBO special, the Great Depression. It's a quick run through of drugs. Let's take a listen.

[Gary Gulman]

Because of the nature of antidepressants, sometimes they don't work and you have to try something else. Sometimes they work and then they stop working and you have to try something else. Sometimes they work, but they're not good enough. You need to augment them with something. So over the years, I have tried Pamelor, Nortriptyline, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Paxil, Abilify, Adderall, Ativan, Klonopin, Duloxetine, Mirtazapine, Sertraline, Effexa, Celexa, Zyprexa. At one point, my doctor said, let's just try drugs that rhyme. Thank you, Dr. Seuss.

[Alison Stewart]

Perfect for your show. Two point. It's so funny because you kind of hear people laugh a little bit, but they're not sure if they should laugh. And that's a little bit of your show as well.

[Gary Gulman]

Right.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you take of that when you hear one woman sort of laugh but she's not really sure if she should?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, that's such a great question. Because sometimes I'll. Sometimes there'll be no laughter and I'll address it and I'll say something to the effect of, no, it's okay. I'm on the other side of it and it's fun now. It's really, I feel, to be on the other side of this depression that lasted for two and a half years and to have seven years of. Of recovery and feeling like myself. I feel an obligation to share that, to give some people hope. And so I want you to laugh about it. But I understand because some of these things are a little bit heavy. But I think that's also an interesting type of laugh and also an interesting type of feeling that I can give the people and share with the people on the stage. But I grew up listening to comedians like Richard Lewis and Joan and Garry Shandling who are very open about their struggles and the craziness in their lives. So I feel. I laughed. So I feel safe sharing this with people. And if they don't find it funny, I understand that too. But my intention is to give it some distance and express my Relief to being on the other side of it.

[Alison Stewart]

Was anything off limits as you're writing the show?

[Gary Gulman]

Well, I don't like to involve my wife's life in it, so I only speak of the things that are clearly could be with anybody's wife. I don't want to get too specific about my wife because she's entitled to her privacy and she's much more private than me. I'm an open book. That doesn't mean she has to be an open book. So I. I am very careful about that. And so I said her first name in the Great Depress. And it's interesting because people will ask about her by name and it's confusing to me.

[Alison Stewart]

Weird, right?

[Gary Gulman]

I feel a little bit concerned for her privacy, but her name is Sade, which is so beautiful. And so I just love to say it. But anyhow, that is sort of off limits. Everything else. I feel like it's healthiest for me to be an open book.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Books. Let's talk about it.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes. There's a book you present to the.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Audience, the monster at the end of this book.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And I looked up its little slugline on Amazon. It says, lovable, furry Grover is distressed to learn there's a monster at the end of this book. He begs readers not to turn the pages. But of course, kids feel they just have to see this monster for themselves. Do you remember when you first read it?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes. Yeah. It was either August or early September of 1976. So I was going into the first grade. I had finished kindergarten, and it was in the living room of my mom's house at 2 Rillage Road in Peabody, Mass. The living room should have been in quotes because we didn't do much living in there. You weren't supposed to be caught in the living room because there were, I guess, antiques or something like that. But there was punishment involved for acting up in the living room. But I was reading in the living room. It had the best light. And all of a sudden this thing started happening where I was able to sound out words and then they just were coming to me. And it was. I was euphoric. It was an ecstasy that I have not. I guess getting my driver's license and falling in love were similar type of chemical feelings. But it was just such a revelation to me. And I just, after that, started going around the house reading everything I could. And then my brother and I had sort of a parlor trick where he would point to a word in his college textbook and I would read it. And although we would do that in the living room because we didn't have a parlor, because we weren't characters in a Tennessee Williams play.

[Alison Stewart]

So when did you realize that the monster at the end of the book had significant meaning in your adult life?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, this is a great question. I guess when my friends started having kids and. And I knew exactly what I was going to get them for their. Either their first birthday or at some birthday, I would give them the mantra at the end of this book with a plush Grover doll. And so I don't know how often I had reread it over the years. I probably took a glance at it when I was giving it to people. But then I reread it when I was writing my book because I wanted to reference it, and it took on a completely different meaning, which just about every book will do if you read it a second time. I re One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest recently, and I can't recommend it to anybody because it's dark and also the misogyny is gooey. But I got different things out of it this time through, and it was very enlightening. And I like to recommend people reread something that they loved. Even four or five years apart can really be a big difference.

[Alison Stewart]

We learn a lot about you as a kid.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Peabody, Massachusetts.

[Alison Stewart]

Your accent, the whole thing. But when you were a kid, did you know you were funny?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

You did?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes. I've always knew. I've always known. That was my bread and butter. And just also the fact that I got such pleasure out of being funny and telling jokes and doing impressions of people from TV and movies and in my life, and just the reaction it got. And it was a. It was a great way to get attention. It was a great way to raise my mood later in Life, which is 7 and 8. And after that, when I started to feel depressive symptoms. So I've always known I was funny, and I've always known the value of being funny. It was really prized in my house, along with athletic excellence. Being funny was the most important thing in my house.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

We learn a lot about your family, about how they get along. You're the youngest by a lot.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Do your brothers have a different event, a different version of how things were around your house?

[Gary Gulman]

Well, I'm sure. I'm sure it's the old Rashomon story where people have different views of it, but I have the best memory of anybody in my family, and I've always known I was going to write all this down someday. I don't know how or why, but early on in my life, I kept telling myself, you need to remember this for a book. I think it started because I thought I was going to be a basketball star. And I read a lot of biographies of Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Taylor and thought, I am. And Bill Russell, I remember, was a great writer of his life. And I thought, I'm going to need to remember things like this, like Bill Russell. So I need to remember these things. And so I've been taking notes for longer, and I've been trading in these stories for a really long time because it was always part of my personality was to be funny and tell stories. So I've sort of reinforced the contents of them.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

My guest is Gary Goleman. We're talking about Grand Eloquent, which is at the Lucille Lortel Theater until February 8th. This is about how you grew up. It's about the way you grew up. It's why you grew up a certain way. And you tell one story, we're not gonna give it away. But I am gonna tell you that you had a teacher who wasn't so great, and you call her Ayn Rand.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

You just keep calling her that.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And she has the class vote on whether or not you should stay after school.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you think when that happened, when this was happening to you?

[Gary Gulman]

Initially, I thought, well, maybe I'll get out of staying after school. I really held out hope, even though I knew I was not very popular. And then when it came down, I was like, oh, this is the worst humiliation of my life. But also, this was weird. I remember thinking, yeah, kids, I get it. I'm not the best kid in this class. And I misbehaved and I didn't return. It was over a library book, and I didn't return the library book. So I know there are consequences to my actions, and I kind of understood. And I remember people telling me that they had voted against me and I probably wasn't capable of much rage back then because I didn't become angry. I was like, nah, I get it, I get it. I'm gonna stay. But the. Yeah, it's worth keeping part of it so that they can. If they come to the show and please come to the show, then you can see how that resolves.

[Alison Stewart]

It made me think, this woman should have known better. She should have known better.

[Gary Gulman]

I know.

[Alison Stewart]

Than to put kids against kids.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I know.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, and thinking back, what could adults do in kids lives to make their lives better? I know it's a big question.

[Gary Gulman]

Sure.

[Alison Stewart]

But when you really get down to the base of it. What can adults do so that they can make kids lives better so they don't have the reactions 10, 20 years down the road?

[Gary Gulman]

What a wonderful question. And this has been such a great interview. You ask such excellent questions and I have an answer to that. But I also think we've come so far in, in what I'm going to say, which is growing up I felt like I knew my parents better than they knew me because there was always the potential you could get, you could get hit or you could be punished severely, or that there was also this fear that they could withdraw their love. I'll never forgive you was something my mother would say. If you break this stupid tchotchke from the house, which means knickknack in Yiddish, I'll never forgive you for that. So there was always this fear. And so we had to know what would get us in trouble. But I think nowadays, for instance, my friend Jimmy from college, he knows his daughter so well, he knows their favorite books and he knows all their friends and their favorite basketball player on this Celtics, and they know them so well. And I think that's really important so that it wouldn't be such a big leap for you to notice that your kid is not behaving the same way they do and to ask some follow up questions or to have your kid feel comfortable enough to say, hey, is this weird that my teacher had the class vote on whether I should stay after school? I never thought to bring that up with my family because also I was afraid of getting in trouble for the thing that caused me to be held after school. I mean, when I think about it now, it's nuts, but it made perfect sense back then.

[Alison Stewart]

You discover your need to prove yourself to people, even those that love you, by proving that you are on top of a situation, that you have the grand eloquence.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Or you did at the bottom of every situation and you do this thing that is so funny where you give us sort of an over analytical answer to the history of grunge.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

With specificity.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Did this really happen? Did your wife float something that had you go into a quite a long.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, Allison. The question is not how many times, how often do you do this? Because that is the exact song she asked about. She said, who sings this? And it was Show Me how to Live by Audioslave and I know everything about that period of time. And I proceeded to tell her and we had, I mean it doesn't, it didn't go on for Hours. But it went on longer than it does in my show. I brought in everything I knew about every aspect because I've seen every documentary, I've read every book and I've listened to every album and I know all the lyrics. I mean, it's heartbreaking for her, but she is so patient.

[Alison Stewart]

It's funny. She just listens through it.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes, yes. But here's the thing. She's an intellectual and very knowledgeable about her subjects, feminism and African American history. And so I get a lot from her. I'll say, have you ever heard of, say, the dozens? And she knows, Right. She knows the origin of that expression. And it's just riveting.

[Alison Stewart]

That's very cool. By the way, Kurt Loder and Tabitha Soren, they get a shout out in the show. I appreciate it. I was my friend.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes. There was a version where I digressed into talking about Tabitha Soren being married to Michael Lewis. Michael Lewis.

[Alison Stewart]

This could go on and on.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. But that's another nine hours of Moneyball. Right.

[Alison Stewart]

You also mentioned that you go to a therapist or you did.

[Gary Gulman]

I do.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that deals with comedians.

[Gary Gulman]

I had him come in.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, okay. Yes, it went well.

[Gary Gulman]

Not only comedians, but I always either. Not always, but frequently a comedian is coming out or as I'm leaving, a comedian is coming in.

[Alison Stewart]

Is he different from other therapists?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes, because you don't have to explain to him the toxic nature of the comedy scene. So you don't have to say, oh, this booker at this club, he knows that person and is familiar and has insights that it would probably take months for your regular therapist. Like, I had a great therapist in college and after. But I had to explain to him the entire world that was new to me of stand up comedy and show business, where Alan Lefkowitz knows these situations that I'm talking about.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Gary Goleman. The name of the show is Grand Eloquent. It's the Lucille Lortel Theater until February 8th. Let me talk to you about this show a little bit, because the show I went to, somebody's phone went off.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, right. And it played a guitar riff. Like a blues guitar riff. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

And you took a moment and you did a bit on it.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

And I wondered why you did a bit on it. You should have just let it go.

[Gary Gulman]

I should have just let it go, but I couldn't get it out of my head. But also, I did it one time at a play and it wasn't a guitar riff. It was the Peanuts theme and I was mortified So I tried to give the person grace. And then I thought of the aspect of blues that I find very interesting, which is that in at least two cases, George Thorogood's Bad to the Bone and then Seventh Son by Willie Dixon. They talk about nurses gathering around and condemning an infant to a life of misery and blues and crime in Bad to the Bone. And I'm like, these nurses should not be gathering around and fading these kids. So I talked about that and then I got back to my act. But I guess it would have been more disciplined and maybe kept us into the show better if I had not gone off on that. But also it's a little bit of a showing off. Like if my mother was, she would say, oh, look at him, he's showing off. Showing off his knowledge of the blues. He couldn't let that opportunity pass by.

[Alison Stewart]

You get emotional during the show?

[Gary Gulman]

Sure.

[Alison Stewart]

Is it hard to do it each night? Does it happen at the same place each night?

[Gary Gulman]

No, it doesn't happen in the same place each night. As an actor, I know that you build in attachments within the script, which, even though I wrote it, it's still a script that I had to memorize. And certain things will pop up and certain people or certain events will pop up and you'll get emotional. And that's good. It's just a matter of getting it out without breaking up because you want the words to be heard, which, which is essential. So. And, and also my director was. Was just saying that that's. That's what you want to get out. They. They don't mind experiencing this with you, but, but get the words out. And, and so that's such a great. That's such a great note. And, and it's. It's been really interesting because I performed that show in front of just the director and, and our. Our stage manager, Madison. And I didn't get emotional during it, but then in front of an audience. And I guess the stakes and the situation, it became more than just an exercise in technique. And I felt a lot of those moments.

[Alison Stewart]

You have so many good bookish jokes. Pinchon, Philip Roth, Ayn Rand. As we talked about. Who's your favorite author or a book you really like right now?

[Gary Gulman]

Well, I think the best author, American author, because I don't read in any other language but English. I think the best one was Toni Morrison, but the author I've read all of is Kurt Vonnegut. I haven't yet read all of Toni Morrison, but the author I've read all of is Kurt Vonnegut and Philip Roth, and so I guess I would have to say they're my favorite. But I'm in awe of every sentence Toni Morrison writes, and I just can't get over the depth and just the beauty of the words. I mean, it's really humbling to read her and some of the other authors that I love almost to the point where, well, why bother? But then you, everyone should bother, right? You get feedback from people who say, well, that speaks to a uniqueness in me. And so I think it's really important. And Kurt Vonnegut always says, even if you just put it into a draw a drawer, write, write. And I think that's such great advice and I'm so glad I took it.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Gary Goleman, Grand Eloquent will be at the Lucille Lortel Theater until February 8th. It's really nice to meet you.

[Gary Gulman]

It was an honor and a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Alison.

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