Podcast Summary: "Criterion's 'Razzie' Collection and Your Favorite Worst Movies"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Kushan Avadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Clyde Foley (Video Editor, Criterion Channel)
Air Date: March 12, 2024

Overview:

This episode delves into The Criterion Channel's surprising new film collection: "The Razzie Goes To," which celebrates winners and nominees of the infamous Golden Raspberry Awards (Razzies)—the annual anti-Oscars for the "worst" in film. Host Kushan Avadar and guest Clyde Foley embrace the best of bad cinema and invite listeners to share their favorite "so-bad-it's-good" movies, questioning what makes a movie "bad" or "good," and spotlighting cult classics that have outgrown their original infamy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the Razzies Belong on the Criterion Channel

• Reasoning for the Collection

  • Counter-programming after awards season/Oscars
  • Films with reputations for being "bad" often become cult classics or get critical reassessment
  • Provides "a break from talking about award season contenders" (03:14, Clyde Foley)

  Quote:

  "I think the immediate answer is counter-programming...We needed such a break from talking about award season contenders." — Clyde Foley (03:19)

2. Deep Dive: “Xanadu” and the Value of Flawed Films

• Xanadu (1980)

  • Infamously "so bad it launched the Razzies"
  • Features a "notorious reputation," but when re-watched, reveals unique pleasures: great ELO soundtrack, ambitious effects, and moments of inspiration alongside “clunky” acting.
  • Rejects the binary of "good" and "bad"—encourages nuanced engagement.

  Notable Quotes:

  "I watched this thing and I was fully expecting to hate it, and I did not. I found some very strange pleasures..." — Clyde Foley (04:15)
  "Art is meant to be absorbed. Art is also meant to be messy and complicated." — Clyde Foley (06:12)

• Listener Text:

  • "The film Xanadu is the worst movie with the best music soundtrack." (05:27)

3. Programming the Razzie Collection

• Curation Priorities:

  • Highlight films "worthy of critical reappraisal" as well as ones "battered by critics."
  • Infamous and misunderstood films, not just objectively bad ones.
  • Perseverance of cult classics through layers of critical and audience response.

  Quote:

  "If I had to take a guess...there are films here that are worth reappraisal, that have been reappraised..." — Clyde Foley (07:50)

4. Caller Favorites: A Tour Through “Bad Movie” Land

(08:33–11:51)

• “Frankenhooker” (1989) — cult classic, parallel with “Poor Things.” (08:43)

• “Grease 2” & “Staying Alive” — beloved, cheesy sequels with notorious musical numbers and implausible scenes. (09:45)

• “Barbarella” & “Zardoz” — campy sci-fi classics with over-the-top performances, become cult touchstones for different audiences. (10:47)

  Quote:

  "Barbarella pretty much is like the gay camp movie for the female male gaze...Zardoz...for the male gaze because you get Sean Connery...walking around in a loincloth." — John, caller (10:47)
  "Funny thing about Grease 2...is that it was directed by Pat Birch...the mother of Peter Becker, president of the Criterion Collection. So it's all a very small world." — Clyde Foley (11:23)

5. Spotlight: “Showgirls” and Critical Reassessment

• “Showgirls” (1995)

  • Described as "both a delirious star is born satire and a terrifying vision of capitalism's corruption of the soul."
  • Film was "eviscerated upon release," now viewed as a misunderstood, camp masterpiece.
  • Paul Verhoeven was the first Razzie recipient to accept in person, embracing the notoriety. (14:25)

  Notable Quotes:

  “The pendulum has completely swung the other way...widely acknowledged for the masterpiece that it is.” — Clyde Foley (13:12)
  “Paul Verhoeven...[his] movies are misunderstood upon release or confused for the things that they're satirizing." — Clyde Foley (13:33)
  "I got seven of the worst awards. And I'm very happy because it was much better, much more fun, than reading the reviews in September." — Paul Verhoeven, accepting Razzie (14:27)

6. Listener Picks: Sgt. Pepper, Jupiter Ascending, and More

(16:09–17:28)

• “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” (1978)

  • “It’s terrible. It’s great.” — Brian, caller (16:21)

• “Jupiter Ascending” (2015)

  • “...incredibly misguided and incredibly fun.” — Angeline, caller (16:44)

  Reaction:

  "I'd probably watch that. Peter Frampton, Bee Gees. Completely reviled. Misfire. Yeah, I'd probably watch that." — Clyde Foley (17:12)

7. The Blair Witch Project: From Razzie Nominee to Genre Pioneer

• Shock at Razzie Nomination:
  • Despite being a cultural phenomena, “The Blair Witch Project” (1999) was nominated for Worst Picture and Heather Donahue won Worst Actress.
  • Foley reflects on the “blowback” and how time has justified its legacy through the found-footage horror subgenre. (17:49)

8. An Ode to “Freddy Got Fingered”

• Why Discuss It?:
  • "Maybe the most transgressive studio film ever made."
  • "How did this get made? And it's pretty remarkable. I kind of love this movie." (19:08)
  • Roger Ebert famously called it "a vomitorium of a movie..." — Roger Ebert (20:03)
  • Foley’s provocative stance: "This is a good movie. It's transgressive, it's subversive, it's funny. Tom Green did it. Tom Green made a good film." (21:01)

9. What Is a “Good” Movie?

• Clyde Foley’s Criteria:
  • Not perfection, but a sense of life and intent.
  • Judge a movie by what it sets out to do.
  • "You can't judge Stranger than Paradise for not being Lawrence of Arabia...What is a movie trying to do? And does it succeed at that thing?" — Foley (21:19–22:06)

10. Celebrating “The Wicker Man”

• Nicolas Cage’s Meme-able Performance:
  • The infamous “Not the bees!” scene and viral YouTube compilations. (24:08)
  • Foley: "Nicolas Cage doing his crazy Nicolas Cage thing, in kind of a tough movie." (24:36)
  • Explores Cage's career arcs and how some movies become internet phenomena.

11. The Razzie’s Future & Bad Movies in the Streaming Era

• On the Latest Razzie Winner (“Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey”):

  • Foley hasn’t seen it, wrestles with whether it fits Criterion’s ethos, leaves open the possibility for future reassessment (25:25).

• What Makes a Bad Horror Movie Enjoyable?:

  • Sometimes “distasteful” or “transgressive” can be virtues if well executed. (26:13)

• Is “bad film” important?

  • Foley: What matters is judging "films on their own merits," allowing for discovery beyond critical consensus (26:52).
  • Importance of skepticism toward labels of “bad”—many films, like “Showgirls” and “Blair Witch Project,” have been critically redeemed.

  Quote:

  "I think it's important to...look at something and then judging it on its own terms. There are many times when critics and audiences have gotten things wrong the first time around." — Clyde Foley (26:52)

12. The Communal Joy of Bad Movies

• Listener Text: “The Warriors is the best worst movie...we are constantly referencing it...It has provided us a lifetime’s worth of humor.” (27:38)

• The Room: Avadar shares the joy of communal moviegoing and the shock and delight found in a midnight screening of Tommy Wiseau's cult film.

  • Foley: “I think there's always a communal aspect to movies, but...there's an aspect of everyone just sort of like, in shock and recognizing something is deeply strange at the same time.” (28:11)

  On the Value of Surprise:

  "To be, like, bludgeoned by mediocrity or to be surprised or be presented by something that I don't quite know what it is? I'll take the surprise any day." — Clyde Foley (28:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:19 | Clyde Foley | "We needed such a break from talking about award season contenders." | | 04:15 | Clyde Foley | "I watched...expecting to hate it, and I did not. I found some very strange pleasures." | | 06:12 | Clyde Foley | "Art is meant to be absorbed. Art is also meant to be messy and complicated." | | 13:12 | Clyde Foley | "Showgirls...widely acknowledged for the masterpiece that it is." | | 14:27 | Paul Verhoeven | "I got seven of the worst awards. ... Much more fun than reading the reviews..." | | 21:01 | Clyde Foley | "Tom Green did it. Tom Green made a good film." | | 26:52 | Clyde Foley | "It's important...to actually look at something and then judge it on its own terms."| | 28:45 | Clyde Foley | "I'll take the surprise any day." |

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Criterion & Razzie Collection rationale: 03:02–03:49
• Deep dive on “Xanadu”: 03:49–06:29
• Programming discussion & rules: 07:08–07:50
• Listener favorites & cult classics: 08:33–11:51
• Spotlight on “Showgirls” & Verhoeven: 11:51–14:45
• Listener calls: “Sgt. Pepper,” “Jupiter Ascending,” etc.: 16:08–17:28
• “Blair Witch Project” and its legacy: 17:28–18:55
• “Freddy Got Fingered”/Roger Ebert review: 18:55–20:30
• "Good" vs. "bad" movies: 21:16–22:06
• Nicolas Cage’s “Wicker Man” & meme culture: 22:41–24:36
• 2024 Razzie winner—”Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey”: 25:13–25:46
• Bad movies, horror, and subversive taste: 26:00–26:37
• Why bad film matters / Communal aspect: 26:52–28:11
• Surprise > Mediocrity: 28:36–28:59

Tone and Takeaway

The conversation is playful, self-aware, and celebratory—never snarky. Both host and guest treat "bad" movies as valuable texts that can entertain, surprise, and shape culture, often becoming objects of shared joy or later critical acclaim. The episode encourages listeners to embrace their guilty pleasures, question conventional wisdom, and seek out the unexpected in popular culture.

End:
For the full list of Razzie-celebrated movies, check The Criterion Channel’s March lineup.
Listeners are encouraged to continue sharing their favorite “worst” movies—because sometimes, loving the mess is loving the art.